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joshburger
10-24-2009, 05:38 AM
this player is agressive and hits his forehand with a ton of topspin. backhand is flat.

im pretty agressive, and i think i hit a tad harder than him.

any advice?

Barca tennis
10-24-2009, 06:36 AM
what surface are you playing the match on?
Barca:)

joshburger
10-24-2009, 06:42 AM
slow hard courts

Barca tennis
10-24-2009, 06:50 AM
You need to play low and high.
Low slice to his forehand and high heavy balls to his backhand.
Then this will give you balls to attack with your power, use his heavy spin to hit high and deep to the backhand.
Barca:)

lawrence
10-24-2009, 07:28 AM
You need to play low and high.
Low slice to his forehand and high heavy balls to his backhand.
Then this will give you balls to attack with your power, use his heavy spin to hit high and deep to the backhand.
Barca:)

I think you got it the other way around!
If your opponent has a flat backhand you don't want to give high balls to his backhand or he will just flatten them out.

wyutani
10-24-2009, 07:33 AM
slice man, and slice again. destroy his rythm. and try dropping dropshots near the net. he will run for the ball like ur little dog. you'll make him exhausted in a couple of minutes.

Camilio Pascual
10-24-2009, 07:58 AM
this player is agressive and hits his forehand with a ton of topspin.
any advice?
The way I play heavy topspinners in my league is to hit a lot of balls to his forehand to make sure that he hits lots of heavy topspin shots back at me.
This is because I am a much better baseliner than net player. As long as I'm not pulled up to the net by low, sliced shots, I am happy to exchange topspin drives with players at my level. If I'm pulled up to the net by heavy topspin shots that sit up, then I have a good chance of hitting a winner, which I rarely try to do.
Have you tried this?

joshburger
10-24-2009, 08:49 AM
thanks for the advice! il tell you guys how it goes

mikeler
10-24-2009, 08:49 AM
If the topspin bothers you make him beat you with his backhand.

Jay_The_Nomad
10-24-2009, 09:05 AM
Attack his backhand and open up his forehand.

Chances are, if he's a topspin monkey he might be using a Western grip.
It'll be very hard for him to hit cross court aggressively & flat with the western grip when he is on the run. He'll either squash-shot chop the ball back on the forehand, or try to loop it deep into your forehand corner.

Do that enough times to his forehand and he'll get ****ed off cuz i'm guessing it's his main weapon. He'll start red-lining his forehand cuz he's ****ed that you attack his weapon & if he starts making unforced errors, his whole game might implode.

split-step
10-24-2009, 10:14 AM
this player is agressive and hits his forehand with a ton of topspin. backhand is flat.

im pretty agressive, and i think i hit a tad harder than him.

any advice?

You haven't really said too much about this player. What are his tactics? This is the more important question not how much spin he hits with.

- Does he use his topspin forehand to angle you off court and then flatten out the backhand to the open court?
- Does he use the heavy topsin to push you back and then play short to bring you into net and then topspin forehand pass??

When you know the way he uses his shots, you can then intelligently counter his gameplan with yours.

trix123
10-24-2009, 10:28 AM
Try and attack his backhand and try and come to the net a bit more often to see if he can hit passing shots without the topspin

RoddickAce
10-24-2009, 11:12 AM
Wow, this sounds like me and my recent practice partner. he hits a really flat 2hbh and heavy topsin forehand, while I hit a relatively flat forehand and spinny 1hbh.

My main tactic against him when I'm in control is to limit the time he gets to hit his forehand:

First I try to rip a ball to his forehand to draw a loopy ball relativley in the centre of the court. Then I try to wrong-foot him by hitting either a short-angle forehand or forehand down the line. if the ball comes back to my forehand side or the centre, I repeat that pattern until I can approach the net. If it comes back to my backhand, I run around it and try to wrong-foot him with combinations of inside-out/in forehands.

My tactic against him when he pins me to my backhand is to act defensive, give him a rhythm, and then surprise him:

I mass slice to his backhand, and then suddenly loop one to his backhand, rip one down the line or dropshot him. If he ever breaks the pin and attacks my forehand, I just use his pace to hit a short-angle crosscourt forehand, which usually puts me in control so I can use my first tactic. Eventually, he'll anticipate this, so you can wrong-foot him by deflecting the ball down the line instead of short-angle crosscourt.

prattle128
10-25-2009, 01:44 AM
One of my friends that I play a lot with hits a lot like the person you've described in your main post, and one of the things that I've noticed when I play him is that I can make him cough up short balls on his forehand if you give him more pace than he can handle. Then you can really dictate the point from there. Since he hits short balls with strong topspin, they are sitters.. so I just step up to the plate and then do whatever I feel most comfortable with doing to try and end the point.

Also, slicing to the backhand means he has to hit up more (put more topspin on the ball) then say a shot that bounces around his waist or so. This means that he might not hit as strong of a ball, which then you could try and take advantage of, and proceed to take control of the point.

prattle128
10-25-2009, 01:45 AM
Wow, this sounds like me and my recent practice partner. he hits a really flat 2hbh and heavy topsin forehand, while I hit a relatively flat forehand and spinny 1hbh.

My main tactic against him when I'm in control is to limit the time he gets to hit his forehand:

First I try to rip a ball to his forehand to draw a loopy ball relativley in the centre of the court. Then I try to wrong-foot him by hitting either a short-angle forehand or forehand down the line. if the ball comes back to my forehand side or the centre, I repeat that pattern until I can approach the net. If it comes back to my backhand, I run around it and try to wrong-foot him with combinations of inside-out/in forehands.

My tactic against him when he pins me to my backhand is to act defensive, give him a rhythm, and then surprise him:

I mass slice to his backhand, and then suddenly loop one to his backhand, rip one down the line or dropshot him. If he ever breaks the pin and attacks my forehand, I just use his pace to hit a short-angle crosscourt forehand, which usually puts me in control so I can use my first tactic. Eventually, he'll anticipate this, so you can wrong-foot him by deflecting the ball down the line instead of short-angle crosscourt.

This is a lot better explanation of the things that I was trying to say. I think that this post has some good advice for you.

wyutani
10-25-2009, 01:58 AM
This is a lot better explanation of the things that I was trying to say. I think that this post has some good advice for you.

and mine too.

xFullCourtTenniSx
10-25-2009, 03:11 AM
Wow, this sounds like me and my recent practice partner. he hits a really flat 2hbh and heavy topsin forehand, while I hit a relatively flat forehand and spinny 1hbh.

My main tactic against him when I'm in control is to limit the time he gets to hit his forehand:

First I try to rip a ball to his forehand to draw a loopy ball relativley in the centre of the court. Then I try to wrong-foot him by hitting either a short-angle forehand or forehand down the line. if the ball comes back to my forehand side or the centre, I repeat that pattern until I can approach the net. If it comes back to my backhand, I run around it and try to wrong-foot him with combinations of inside-out/in forehands.

My tactic against him when he pins me to my backhand is to act defensive, give him a rhythm, and then surprise him:

I mass slice to his backhand, and then suddenly loop one to his backhand, rip one down the line or dropshot him. If he ever breaks the pin and attacks my forehand, I just use his pace to hit a short-angle crosscourt forehand, which usually puts me in control so I can use my first tactic. Eventually, he'll anticipate this, so you can wrong-foot him by deflecting the ball down the line instead of short-angle crosscourt.

Considering that this heavy topspin player is on the same level as the OP, if not higher, this won't work. Also note

im pretty agressive, and i think i hit a tad harder than him.

This means the amounts of pace both players generate is pretty close.

What we can infer from this is that trying to rip balls to draw a short loopy response in the middle of the court will require the OP to hit MUCH HARDER than he actually can. Not only that, but when hitting your hardest shots, you take a risk and lower your percentages of getting the ball in play (how much varies from player to player and level to level).

There's a lot I disagree with tactically in your post, but you can use whatever works for you and the people you play. But bottom line, I think you're playing well below your level. Like 4.0 vs 3.0. I don't know many 4.5s who'd risk ripping balls all day just to draw a single short ball out. Or maybe I'm thinking 5.0s... Either way, I just don't like all the risks involved in constantly ripping balls for a single short ball. It's gotta take at least 5-10 shots before you get anything. Maybe 10-20 even... Not work the risk.

Now, there are several things he can do, and should probably take a few of them and try them out at the same time.

-Take the ball on the rise
-Fall back and take it on the drop
-Avoid the forehand
-Rally patiently
-Change up spins, depth, and height
-Change up pace
-Play back a lot of heavy topspin shots of your own

Simplest single change in your game will always be just to take the ball on the rise. It requires better footwork, but that benefits your game in the long run. Plus, your ability to return serve will improve.

Just move your feet more quickly to get into position to hit the ball. Focus on nothing but playing a safe shot deep crosscourt.

If you're feeling pushed back, your biggest problem is footwork and how you set your body. If that's the case, tell me and I'll throw down what you should focus on there, but I won't type that much unless necessary.

If you can't handle the heavy topspin and have no way to practice against it, then your only choice is to be a smart tactician on court. One thing you must realize is that the heavy topspin he is using will significantly cut down on his error count. As such, this means you must also cut down on your own errors while still playing shots to make him hit errors or get short balls.

So how do we do that? For one, you can trade deep heavy topspin shots all day long until someone makes an error. I have a feeling he'd win this contest otherwise you wouldn't be asking us for advice. Another option is to mess up his rhythm, balance, and positioning, which will mess with his consistency and improve your chances of out-rallying him. Change up the spins, the height, the depth, and the pace of the ball. Let him get into a little bit of a groove, then hit a drastically different shot. By letting him get into a groove, I mean play 3-5 of the same shot, then hit one drastically different. I don't mean play 20 then change. While that would be a better surprise, you can do much more in a point by doing something else in the same amount of time. You want to lower his consistency as much as possible so you don't have to hit 20 shots. You want to drop his consistency down from 50+ balls before an error to around 10. Just playing aggressively to win the point under match pressure, he drops to around 20-30 as it is. The final option is to blow big bombs all day long. Not a good option by any means. This immediately drops your consistency to 5-10. But once you reach the very top levels of tennis, this becomes a very good option because your serve will (should) always set up the short ball.

So you have to think about how to put together a point that will win a good majority of points played. If you can't handle his forehand at all, play to his backhand. Do whatever you can that will allow you to rally deep for as long as possible while also doing things that will prevent him from doing the same. That's all there is to it. But bottom line, I suggest improving your footwork and taking balls on the rise. This increases your tolerance to his shots. Heavy topspin shots really shouldn't present much of a challenge unless your opponent's above your level and hitting it at speeds you can't handle. In that case, it's a mere level difference where his rally balls are much faster than yours. As you get better, heavy spin won't be as big of a bother unless it's hit with incredible pace, in which case you're more concerned with the pace than the spin, because the pace is the real problem. Solution: get in position faster!

xFullCourtTenniSx
10-25-2009, 03:15 AM
and mine too.

Not really... Slicing the ball all day (unless used smartly as a changeup or if you have a VERY good one) won't help (especially if you don't have a decent one). He'll just get into a groove with that shot and do the same thing, only with heavier spin and more kick. Though he will probably hit with less pace, which makes things easier. But still, his problem is the spin.

And drop shots from behind the baseline are a very low percentage play.

By the way, what level of tennis are we talking? 3.5? 4.0? I have a strong feeling you're playing someone above your level by maybe even a full NTRP level.

RoddickAce
10-25-2009, 12:16 PM
Considering that this heavy topspin player is on the same level as the OP, if not higher, this won't work. Also note

This means the amounts of pace both players generate is pretty close.



Those are good points, however, just because his opponent can hit similarly as hard does not mean that it applies to every situation. Nadal can hit as hard as Blake or Berdych, but he requires more time to set up his shots because of his grip and amount of topspin he naturally generates. Now, most would agree that Nadal is a better player than Berdych or Blake, but both have employed such tactics successfully against Nadal because they rob Nadal of the time he needs to hit with such force.

Not really... Slicing the ball all day (unless used smartly as a changeup or if you have a VERY good one) won't help (especially if you don't have a decent one). He'll just get into a groove with that shot and do the same thing, only with heavier spin and more kick. Though he will probably hit with less pace, which makes things easier. But still, his problem is the spin.

And drop shots from behind the baseline are a very low percentage play.

By the way, what level of tennis are we talking? 3.5? 4.0? I have a strong feeling you're playing someone above your level by maybe even a full NTRP level.

But thing is, the tactic stated is to slice to his opponent's backhand when you are not in control of the point, which according to the OP is hit flat. If you let him get into a rhythm, he might be able to hit harder(depending on how well he handles low balls). But then, he'll be in a rhythm of bending his knees low and hitting a curving low ball. Because of this, he'll be off guard when you suddenly change it up with or looping topspin backhand as I said earlier. This way, your opponent will be out of position for that split second because he has to move back and hit a ball that is higher (compared to a low slice). Then you can use extra time to your advantage and get yourself out of a backhand pin.

Now, if his opponent runs around his backhand then the topspin will trouble the OP right? But there's also the flip side, it will be pretty hard to hit with heavy topsin consistently off a low slice; so, the ball most likely will not have as much kick. And since he's out of position running around his backhand, you can direct the ball down the line with his own pace to the relatively open court.

As for the dropshot, it is only used as an alternative change-up, not neccessarily something you do all the time.

Falloutjr
10-25-2009, 12:28 PM
Those are good points, however, just because his opponent can hit similarly as hard does not mean that it applies to every situation. Nadal can hit as hard as Blake or Berdych, but he requires more time to set up his shots because of his grip and amount of topspin he naturally generates. Now, most would agree that Nadal is a better player than Berdych or Blake, but both have employed such tactics successfully against Nadal because they rob Nadal of the time he needs to hit with such force.



But thing is, the tactic stated is to slice to his opponent's backhand when you are not in control of the point, which according to the OP is hit flat. If you let him get into a rhythm, he might be able to hit harder(depending on how well he handles low balls). But then, he'll be in a rhythm of bending his knees low and hitting a curving low ball. Because of this, he'll be off guard when you suddenly change it up with or looping topspin backhand as I said earlier. This way, your opponent will be out of position for that split second because he has to move back and hit a ball that is higher (compared to a low slice). Then you can use extra time to your advantage and get yourself out of a backhand pin.

Now, if his opponent runs around his backhand then the topspin will trouble the OP right? But there's also the flip side, it will be pretty hard to hit with heavy topsin consistently off a low slice; so, the ball most likely will not have as much kick. And since he's out of position running around his backhand, you can direct the ball down the line with his own pace to the relatively open court.

As for the dropshot, it is only used as an alternative change-up, not neccessarily something you do all the time.

But still if he's struggling to deal with the heavy topspin, what better way to neutralize the spin by forcing him to just put the ball back in play and draw him near the net so he can't hit his moonballs? Also, if he's a defensively oriented player, his net play is probably weaker than his baseline skills, so taking him out of his game could be exactly what you need to do. The easiest way to win in any sport is to neutralize your opponent's strengths and minimize your weaknesses. Hit to his backhand as much as possible and slice to his forehand. Since you're a righty, hitting to a lefty's backhand will be considerably easier than if he were a righty.

xFullCourtTenniSx
10-25-2009, 03:57 PM
Those are good points, however, just because his opponent can hit similarly as hard does not mean that it applies to every situation. Nadal can hit as hard as Blake or Berdych, but he requires more time to set up his shots because of his grip and amount of topspin he naturally generates. Now, most would agree that Nadal is a better player than Berdych or Blake, but both have employed such tactics successfully against Nadal because they rob Nadal of the time he needs to hit with such force.

When Nadal CAN'T hit as hard as Blake when Nadal hits his rally ball. That's WHY you can tell that the other player is on a higher level. Similar ball speeds but with one having significantly more topspin means that one of the two players can hit the ball much harder than the other. Nadal's average shot is in the 50s. Blake's is in the 80s! On hard courts he's changed that recently to be more around maybe the 70s by flattening out the shot a little, but it's still much slower than the average rally ball generated by someone with his levels of racket head acceleration.

And Berdych and Blake have had success against Nadal because they hit the ball so damn hard! Look at how well Verdasco played against Nadal at the Australian Open. He isn't a completely flat hitter, but he put some serious pace on his shots and move them around very well. This means Nadal's always on the run. No matter what, if you're on the run, you can't hit your full stroke.

The reason they can pull this off is because Nadal's balls (even though are hit with heavy spin) are slow and bounce high. Once you get into a groove with handling them, you can dictate the point once you get one good shot in before he does. Blake plays a a big game. He just attacks. So he's willing and able to pound those shots. And his racket even helps him by adding power to his shots when he goes for those high balls, which is critical to handling them consistently. When dealing with very heavy topspin, the solution is to hit it back with a lot of spin, hit through it with a lot of pace, or a very strong combination of both. Off the backhand, it's very hard to do this unless you have a very heavy racket like Blake does. Even so, it's better to take the ball on the rise, which Blake can do very well.

Most other people don't have the abilities to pull this off even if their racket is suited for the situation. How many people do you know play the game like Blake? Very few.

And Nadal doesn't need that much time to hit as hard as he does, he just needs to be in position and on balance. That's why he dominates on clay. It's VERY hard to pull that off against Nadal on clay because of how well he moves on the surface as well as the ball being slower. On hard courts, it's easier to pull it off because the ball penetrates the court much better and it isn't being slowed down as drastically as on clay. It's the court that takes away Nadal's time, not the players. Nadal has gotten better in his ability to adapt over the years, and that's why Blake isn't having as much success against Nadal. He can get Nadal off balance and out of position, but Nadal is getting used to the speed of the ball on hard courts and can still produce a very good shot. Eventually Blake will start getting pounded into the ground by Nadal on hard courts. (assuming Nadal's legs don't become permanently injured before he gets that far)

But thing is, the tactic stated is to slice to his opponent's backhand when you are not in control of the point, which according to the OP is hit flat. If you let him get into a rhythm, he might be able to hit harder(depending on how well he handles low balls). But then, he'll be in a rhythm of bending his knees low and hitting a curving low ball. Because of this, he'll be off guard when you suddenly change it up with or looping topspin backhand as I said earlier. This way, your opponent will be out of position for that split second because he has to move back and hit a ball that is higher (compared to a low slice). Then you can use extra time to your advantage and get yourself out of a backhand pin.

Now, if his opponent runs around his backhand then the topspin will trouble the OP right? But there's also the flip side, it will be pretty hard to hit with heavy topsin consistently off a low slice; so, the ball most likely will not have as much kick. And since he's out of position running around his backhand, you can direct the ball down the line with his own pace to the relatively open court.

As for the dropshot, it is only used as an alternative change-up, not neccessarily something you do all the time.

You do realize pounding a slice requires good footwork right? This means you're grooving not only his stroke, but his footwork as well! This is BAD! When you finally hit the hard ball or the heavy ball, his feet will get him in the right position to nail the ball. He's not going to be off guard unless you hit that ball once every 100-200 shots. The only time you can catch an opponent off guard is if your regular shot, used 95% of the time, is significantly slower than the shot you're using! Even then, the opponent can deal with it and still place it. If anything, your strategy will set you deeper into your backhand corner and your opponent will have already hit a winner on you down the line before you can try your changeup. And if you do use that changeup, it'll likely be pounded back and you're back at square one. He hits flat, so those shots he's pinning you down with won't allow you to do very much from close to the baseline, and it won't let you do too much to fight back. You have to get a few deep shots in to back him up so he might throw up one short so you can do something in the rally.

And if he runs around his backhand, he can still place VERY heavy topspin on the ball or rip it flat. An overused slice is asking for trouble unless you can knife all of them very low. Even then good anticipation and footwork will still allow you to hit a decent shot and if it was that good of a slice, the opponent won't run around it. It's not hard to consistently hit heavy topspin off a slice unless it's a knifer. Even then good depth and placement can keep the OP from doing anything.

The best option is always to patiently rally until you have an opportunity to do something. But a smart player won't keep going to your backhand if he has you successfully pinned there, he'll go for one down the line to set up the finisher. So you have to keep him from doing that before you can. So you accept the fact that you are rallying backhands and pin him to his backhand corner with deep strokes. Push him behind the baseline. It's amazing how many people will try to force situations that aren't there.

ubermeyer
10-25-2009, 04:20 PM
When dealing with very heavy topspin, the solution is to hit it back with a lot of spin, hit through it with a lot of pace, or a very strong combination of both. Off the backhand, it's very hard to do this unless you have a very heavy racket like Blake does.

Correction: Off the one-handed backhand. Off the 2-handed backhand, it is fairly easy to hit through a slow, high, spinny ball, like Del Potro did against Nadal in the blowout USO match.

xFullCourtTenniSx
10-26-2009, 02:42 AM
Correction: Off the one-handed backhand. Off the 2-handed backhand, it is fairly easy to hit through a slow, high, spinny ball, like Del Potro did against Nadal in the blowout USO match.

True, but bottom line: would you rather hit a high ball with your forehand or with your backhand? Clearly the forehand. Even so, heavy depolarized rackets help, like the one Del Potro used.

skuludo
10-26-2009, 02:30 PM
slice man, and slice again. destroy his rythm. and try dropping dropshots near the net. he will run for the ball like ur little dog. you'll make him exhausted in a couple of minutes.

Does that work against Nadal?

tlm
10-26-2009, 02:59 PM
Nadal just beat blake twice in 2 weeks on hard court.

Nellie
10-26-2009, 06:31 PM
So you know the forehand will jump up high. so prepare early (so you are ready for the jump) and high so you can hit the high ball. If you prepare low, your stroke will be too vertical and will have a low margin for error.

wyutani
10-26-2009, 06:32 PM
Does that work against Nadal?

well, unless the OP did play against nadal.

Power Player
10-27-2009, 11:21 AM
Where did you guys get the numbers of how fast Nadal's forehand is? He hits one of the heaviest balls on the tour.

Anyway just because a guy hits with topspin does not mean he can not also flatten out his shot too. I see a lot of people assuming that in this thread, and people assume that with me on the court. I set them up with loopers that kick just so I can get a flat winner when I see the right angle open up.

If the guy JUST hits heavy topsin, he is one dimensional, and you should not have too much trouble once you hit with him enough.