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RobFL
10-26-2009, 07:22 PM
I've got a fairly tender elbow and my first few experiments with poly ended with serious ache. But now i know the secret which is to go 53 lbs or lower and go with one of the new, softer co-polys. BAM is working very well for me. Go low on the tension! I started out stringing in my normal range of 56-60 and it hurt. As soon as i dropped to 52-53, no ache or pain whatsoever. Poly can handle lower tensions and maintain control, don't be afraid to go low. 51 yr old 4.5 here, also had arthroscopic rotator cuff surgery 4 years ago, so i don't take chances with risky setups. Stay away from Lux BB, go with soft co-polys/low tension.

mawashi
10-26-2009, 07:50 PM
I've got a fairly tender elbow and my first few experiments with poly ended with serious ache. But now i know the secret which is to go 53 lbs or lower and go with one of the new, softer co-polys. BAM is working very well for me. Go low on the tension! I started out stringing in my normal range of 56-60 and it hurt. As soon as i dropped to 52-53, no ache or pain whatsoever. Poly can handle lower tensions and maintain control, don't be afraid to go low. 51 yr old 4.5 here, also had arthroscopic rotator cuff surgery 4 years ago, so i don't take chances with risky setups. Stay away from Lux BB, go with soft co-polys/low tension.

Rob,

Good to hear that this setup doesn't hurt you but I've tried to like poly but every time I've strung it at all kinds of tension n hybrids, it hurt my arm. Sometimes the hurt comes quickly sometimes it comes a few days later.

Being a kevlar user, I've always used a good syn gut in the cross n that combo had never given me any problems.

Perhaps I'll give your setup a try but use a syn gut like pacific premium power x in the cross.

Cheers,

mawashi

RobFL
10-26-2009, 08:16 PM
mawashi, i've tried about 6 hybrids with nat gut, good syn gut and multis in the crosses. None really did anything special on performance and none really lessened the ache of poly. So at this point i'm done on hybrids, i just don't believe in them and if you look at the pros, hybrids are trending down in favor of full poly. If you have some extra string, try a co-poly around 48-50 and i think you will be suprised. Davidyenko is around 47-48 with full poly and he was crushing the ball against Nadal at that tension.

joe sch
10-26-2009, 08:35 PM
I think older age is a factor with onset of tennis elbow and shoulder problems using stiffer rackets and strings. The modern rackets and poly strings are major factors in these regards because of the stiffness. Other factors are the tensions, head sizes, and hitting style. Using a hybrid poly mix with natural gut is a good choice and stringing the poly in the low tension range, like 50 lbs is also a good choice if you experience any elbow or shoulder pain from your stringing setup. I love natural gut since its painless, has the most touch and power. Just cant take those massive swings and keep the balls in the court, like with poly.

mawashi
10-27-2009, 05:47 AM
mawashi, i've tried about 6 hybrids with nat gut, good syn gut and multis in the crosses. None really did anything special on performance and none really lessened the ache of poly. So at this point i'm done on hybrids, i just don't believe in them and if you look at the pros, hybrids are trending down in favor of full poly. If you have some extra string, try a co-poly around 48-50 and i think you will be suprised. Davidyenko is around 47-48 with full poly and he was crushing the ball against Nadal at that tension.

Just 6! Think I put my stringer's kid to school with all my different tryouts LOL!

Got a couple of spare reels somewhere LOL! I'll give your idea a shot :)!

With a 18x20 string patten I just might go a tad lower.

Thanks

mawashi

Jagman
10-27-2009, 05:58 AM
Good info, Rob! I like to read about others' experiences with different strings and tensions; especially as to how they affect older players. I am 52, myself, with a birthday coming up all too soon.

I have been playing tennis since a youth and competed in both high school and college. I took a long hiatus from the sport after college. I never had any tenderness in the arm/elbow until fairly recently.

After taking up tennis again, I transitioned from the PS85 to the RDS001 Mid to the RDiS 100 Mid (93). About the time I started using the RDS, Luxillon strings had already been established on the pro circuit and was beginning to see interest in the recreational ranks. I really like the polys and have used PHT in my RDS, both full and in hybrid, with no problems. I usually string around 60 lbs, going no lower than 55 lbs.

I did begin to experience some arm tenderness upon taking up the RDiS. Although a player's frame, the RDiS has a relatively low swingweight and is quite stiff. While PHT performed well in the RDiS, I began to notice an increasing amount of soreness and lack of flexibility in my arm. I am convinced that polyester strings, strung at high tension in a stiff frame, was a chief contributing factor to my arm discomfort.

In fairness, other factors played a role as well. Given my age, I was pushing myself a bit too hard, having intense practice sessions of 2+ hours with my sons. Okay for them, but a little much for dad. One indication of this were some ankle problems and plantar fascitis cropping up about the same time.

I also left the poly in the RDiS way too long. Since I had played the RDS for a while, I had accumulated a few frames which I could rotate, thus extending the playability of the poly in any one frame. Not sure that I would commit to the RDiS early on, I started with just one racquet. Given the amount of time I was spending on court, the poly quickly went dead. In my ignorance, I just played on.

Since then, I have limited my practice sessions to an hour and string the RDiS with non-polys: mostly multi's and syn. gut. That and some dedicated stretching have pretty much eliminated much of my joint pain.

I also like to hit occasionally with a KPS88 and a K90. I just love the feel of these racquets, coming from the extended prostaff heritage, but they are a bit too demanding for regular play. Every so often, I will have a "Wilson night" and spend my hour on court hitting with each in turn, plus a couple others.

I have hit with a KPS with a full bed of Zo Rough and a K90 with a hybrid of Zo Power and TNT2 (Zo Sweet). Both are strung at 60 lbs. I've had absolutely zero discomfort hitting with either setup. I attribute my good fortune to the greater heft of these racquets and a still fresh set of strings. Gamma poly seems to play rather soft, IMO, although they are very stiff feeling when stringing.

Quite recently, I strung up a K90 with a full set of Zo Power. This time, however, I strung the mains at 50 and the crosses at 48. The tension is very low for me and I'm still adjusting to the different feel. In terms of playability, it is not what I expected and I did not care for it initially. In fact, the jury is still out on that one. I will say, however, that the hit is very soft and quite arm friendly. Plush, with an aspect of crispness, if you will. I will be most interested to see how long this feeling lasts, and how comfort and playability are affected as the string dies.

I am quite tempted to try a set of poly in the RDiS at a very low tension. I just picked up another frame off the auction site and am encouraged to experiment further by this thread. Whatever the result, thanks for passing on your experience and further sparking my zest for exploration.

Cheers!

Valjean
10-27-2009, 06:52 AM
I've got a fairly tender elbow and my first few experiments with poly ended with serious ache. But now i know the secret which is to go 53 lbs or lower and go with one of the new, softer co-polys. BAM is working very well for me. Go low on the tension! I started out stringing in my normal range of 56-60 and it hurt. As soon as i dropped to 52-53, no ache or pain whatsoever. Poly can handle lower tensions and maintain control, don't be afraid to go low. 51 yr old 4.5 here, also had arthroscopic rotator cuff surgery 4 years ago, so i don't take chances with risky setups. Stay away from Lux BB, go with soft co-polys/low tension.
When even the pros must restring with poly/copoly every few days due to its high tension loss--which is a significant contributor to any arm/shoulder fatigue and so to any subsequent or related problem there--I wonder what you are doing stringing with it.

bad_call
10-27-2009, 07:01 AM
I've got a fairly tender elbow and my first few experiments with poly ended with serious ache. But now i know the secret which is to go 53 lbs or lower and go with one of the new, softer co-polys. BAM is working very well for me. Go low on the tension! I started out stringing in my normal range of 56-60 and it hurt. As soon as i dropped to 52-53, no ache or pain whatsoever. Poly can handle lower tensions and maintain control, don't be afraid to go low. 51 yr old 4.5 here, also had arthroscopic rotator cuff surgery 4 years ago, so i don't take chances with risky setups. Stay away from Lux BB, go with soft co-polys/low tension.

old guys RULE...with soft co-polys at lower tension...club. :) great that you found that so you can join the club.

nickarnold2000
10-27-2009, 07:39 AM
Like most everything in life, the young guys can get away with murder! Stay up all night drinking and still make it to work the next day, play with full poly at high tension and play 3 hours/ 7 days a week... I certainly ain't one of those guys! I just turned 46 but I'm playing the best tennis of my life at the 5.0 level.
I use a heavier stick (340g), very HL and use a hybrid of CB 17(newer co-poly) and Sweet 17 at 49/47(but will switch to Genesis Spin X soon). Get great ball pocketing which results in good spin and no arm pain. I try to play more quality tennis with better opponents and limit myself to 3-4x/week. I also play with a racket that has a good rep for arm protection and manage to fit in some resistence training too(polymetrics).
So in short, yes, us older guys can still bring the heat to bear on those youngsters and not fall apart in the process!:)

Jagman
10-27-2009, 08:28 AM
I'm not at work yet and it's raining outside, so let me take a stab at this ...

1. Curiosity - After all, what's all the hubbub about? How can you not be curious about poly when top players and commentators alike accord the dominance of the modern game to new technology? Even if you don't like Andy Roddick, his acclamation of Luxillon strings is intriguing, and has been echoed by several others. Growing up with wood racquets, I recall you had basically two choices for string: natural gut that few, even then, could afford; or some variation of crappy nylon that wouldn't pass for quality fishing line today. Multifilaments and synthetic guts came along later. The sheer diversity of string types available today is amazing. It would be most unusual for an older player to not want to experiment.

2. Performance - In my limited experience with polys, I believe that they do deliver! Crispness, feel, power, spin, and control exceeded my expectations, even after reading Andy's gushing admiration in TM. Oh, to be a junior again! Poly, IMHO, at least for a certain level player, is truly an aid to performance. This cannot be gainsaid in the case of the older player, who is expecting his play to degrade with age. Imagine the glee of the mature athlete who can actually see some overall improvement before the inevitable decline. These strings are just flat out good.

3. Arm Pain is Not a Foregone Conclusion - As evidenced by this thread, there are ample anecdotes indicating that the use of poly does not necessarily always result in discomfort. Things like using a softer poly, a heavier racquet, a more flexible racquet, stringing at a lower tension, and restringing more often may serve to allay the problems associated with a string that is often described as too stiff, harsh, and lacking in its ability to maintain tension/elasticity.

4. Depending Upon Circumstance, Poly May Not be a Bad Investment - There seems to be some support in other threads for the proposition that poly may maintain its tension better if it is not used. Maybe inartfully stated, but the suggestion is that you might be able to string up a few racquets with poly, rotate them through practice and matchplay, and thereby gain at least the perception of a longer string life. I've had a couple RDS's that I don't use as much now strung up with poly for going on 9 months. When I bring them out, they still appear to play at an acceptable level. Of course, since I have had difficulty determining when poly truly goes dead, my experience may not be the best example.

5. Stringing for Others - I have three boys, two of whom are still juniors, who compete regularly. At least one prefers poly and I restring his racquet before every tournament. I string his practice sticks with a non-poly. If its around, I'm bound to try it; that curiosity thing again, abetted by availability.

Generally speaking, I like to play well and poly helps me do that. If it causes me discomfort, I'll restring or use something else. If I have the disposable income to buy poly, or gut for that matter, I'll get it. If things are tight, I won't. Poly may or may not be for you, but you won't know unless you try it.

Your mileage will surely vary. I only offer one duffer's perspective. Cheers!

Rabbit
10-27-2009, 08:30 AM
51 y.o. 4.5 here as well. I have sworn poly off. For me, there was more fatigue than pain, but it was noticeable. I had to warm up a good 15 - 20 minutes before my arm felt loose.

Since going back to natural gut, there is zero pain, my arm feels fresh after I get through playing.

From a performance standpoint, the only thing I miss about poly is the confidence in control I had. But, playing with gut now I don't lack for anything and it's better around the net and serving. All in all, going to gut has been a win/win for me.

High Roller
10-27-2009, 08:37 AM
My impression is that the newest co-poly string react differently than the first generation strings. I have been trying out several soft co-poly strings with good results. They are comfortable and blend spin and control with a healthy dose of power. Aside from power and comfort, when they lose tension they react very much like syn gut with more trampoline effect rather than the loss of resiliency (and accompanying discomfort) that first gen poly had. YMMV, but that is what this old arm is feeling.

Valjean
10-27-2009, 08:43 AM
Even so, from TW's Learning Center:

"Polyester - a very durable string designed for string breakers-not much power or feel. Polyester strings became very popular with ATP players, because it provides added durability, doesn't move and 'deadens' the stringbed. While this isn't a desirable feature for most recreational players, it is for many of todays ATP and (some) WTA players. They're bigger, stronger, swing faster and use more powerful racquets than players from the past. Often used in hybrids, combining polyester mains with softer synthetic or natural gut mains. This offers the durability benefits of polyester, while reducing the stiff, dead feel. Also easier to string than 100% polyester. Not recommended for beginning players or players with arm injuries."

Polyester is *a string of last resort*, gentlemen, not the latest technological "advance" to sharpen you up. It was tried long before now at the pro level, before the advent of the open-stance forehand and the suddenly-popularized baseline game that made it convenient, and found wanting. There hasn't been a better example of timing and necessity coinciding. FWIW, at least one string manufacturer, Ashaway here in the US, claims to have identified a trend *away* from polyester among recreational players disillusioned with its many flaws. I strongly recommend a thorough review of the many complaints that repeatedly air in here for it.

You might find your favorite poly/copoly string here today, together with some revealing stats to make you pay notice to what's gone on: http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/issues/200809/200809allstrings.html.

By the way, much in the way of arm/shoulder/wrist trouble through tennis comes on slowly, as the tendon slowly "dies". It's called an overuse injury; very hard to get rid of, too.

gflyer
10-27-2009, 09:16 AM
I am going through a nightmare here.
I am 38 years old. 4.5+. Heavy hitter. 1HBH.
Never had elbow problems in my life.
About 1 month ago I started to have tender elbow that now has become serious ache.
I decided to take some time off and do some yoga.
I'd like some suggestions from you guys because I cannot figure out what triggered my TE.
I always played with full poly. I cannot stand soft stringbeds.
Before summer I've changed racquet and after some time of testing I found my perfect setup with Cyber Flash 1.25 @52x50.
I don't know if the reason of my elbow problem is in the strings but I decided to change my setup a little to see if things get better.
I was thinking about stringing MSV Hex 1.23 @52x50.
I will also try to increase a little the size of my grip (I hate to do this but I have to)
What do you guys think? Any other suggestions?
Is one of those "worm" dampeners going to help?
Thank you in advance.

bad_call
10-27-2009, 10:36 AM
too small a grip size can give you TE (found that out first hand). try that first. if no relief then look at changing the strings/tension.

btw - what racquet are you using and it's flex rating?

jrod
10-27-2009, 11:30 AM
Old guy here too...no full poly for me thanks. Not even in the Fischer, but that was one frame where you could get away with it string low 50's. I use a soft, smooth, longer-lasting co-poly cross strung @ 53# paired with gut mains at 55#. Magical....power AND control AND spin AND touch.

Racer41c
10-27-2009, 11:31 AM
Rob,

Good to hear that this setup doesn't hurt you but I've tried to like poly but every time I've strung it at all kinds of tension n hybrids, it hurt my arm. Sometimes the hurt comes quickly sometimes it comes a few days later.

Being a kevlar user, I've always used a good syn gut in the cross n that combo had never given me any problems.

Perhaps I'll give your setup a try but use a syn gut like pacific premium power x in the cross.

Cheers,

mawashi

Why change?

gflyer
10-27-2009, 11:41 AM
too small a grip size can give you TE (found that out first hand). try that first. if no relief then look at changing the strings/tension.

btw - what racquet are you using and it's flex rating?

Thank you for your reply.
I am using a Dunlop 4d200 16x19. Flex is ~63.

mawashi
10-27-2009, 06:20 PM
Why change?

Cus I'm having a nightmare getting the syn gut cross to last more than 1 match.

I'm trying out the Pacific premium power x to see if it fairs better than other syn guts I've tried.

I love the feel of Forten kevlar but I can't take a kevlar/poly combo so I'm trying out 18x20 string pattens to see if it helps in the durability department. Heck I'll almost try anything else.

mawashi

jmhs
10-27-2009, 06:35 PM
I am going through a nightmare here.
I am 38 years old. 4.5+. Heavy hitter. 1HBH.
Never had elbow problems in my life.
About 1 month ago I started to have tender elbow that now has become serious ache.
I decided to take some time off and do some yoga.
I'd like some suggestions from you guys because I cannot figure out what triggered my TE.
I always played with full poly. I cannot stand soft stringbeds.
Before summer I've changed racquet and after some time of testing I found my perfect setup with Cyber Flash 1.25 @52x50.
I don't know if the reason of my elbow problem is in the strings but I decided to change my setup a little to see if things get better.
I was thinking about stringing MSV Hex 1.23 @52x50.
I will also try to increase a little the size of my grip (I hate to do this but I have to)
What do you guys think? Any other suggestions?
Is one of those "worm" dampeners going to help?
Thank you in advance.

1hbh: likely culprit (late or elbow not relatively straight on contact). Do some Internet searches on TE. You will be able to tell if your pain is in the classic 1hbh spots.

Smart to back off poly for awhile. Soft poly strings out there...e.g., Tecnifibre black code. Low 50s.

My dad, a 4.5er in his 40s had TE. He went with Tecnifibre NRG2, a high quality string, and also switched to a 2 hander, but he still slices with one hand bigtime.

Worm dampener helps, but very minor.

As you know, don't mess with soft tissue. Once you damage your arm, tennis is really tough.

I want to be helpful, but I owe TW a lot so I don't want to violate any policies. I've gotta tell you what helped my dad: this guy:

http://www.nirschl.com/

maybe he can recommend someone near you. he operated on Richard Krajicek's elbow :)

and his lateral elbow brace:

http://www.nirschl.com/braces.asp

best wishes for rescue from your nightmare. if you're 4.5, tennis is a major part of your life.

davidm
10-27-2009, 06:35 PM
I am going through a nightmare here.
I am 38 years old. 4.5+. Heavy hitter. 1HBH.
Never had elbow problems in my life.
About 1 month ago I started to have tender elbow that now has become serious ache.
I decided to take some time off and do some yoga.
I'd like some suggestions from you guys because I cannot figure out what triggered my TE.
I always played with full poly. I cannot stand soft stringbeds.
Before summer I've changed racquet and after some time of testing I found my perfect setup with Cyber Flash 1.25 @52x50.
I don't know if the reason of my elbow problem is in the strings but I decided to change my setup a little to see if things get better.
I was thinking about stringing MSV Hex 1.23 @52x50.
I will also try to increase a little the size of my grip (I hate to do this but I have to)
What do you guys think? Any other suggestions?
Is one of those "worm" dampeners going to help?
Thank you in advance.

Hi gflyer,
i had a somewhat similar experience to yours, at least in several aspects. I am a few years older than you, also a fairly hard hitter, 5.0 and 1HBH, having played at a pretty high level as a junior and no prior elbow issues to speak to all these years.

BUT... then I changed racquets (away from wilson, which I've used for years) to a babolat PD as I wanted to try something that I thought might give me little more edge on the younger, faster and stronger players. I had it strung up Bab Pro Hurricane at 57.5lbs. That's when elbow issues started happening. I also tried a babolat aero storm (safina racquet) for a while which helped (softer, a little more flex than the Pure drive), but didn't help enough.

I have now switched to a Yonex RDiS100MP (98 inch head, the nalbandian racquet) and am using a soft multi (Silent Partner Filament Frenzy) at between 55-57lbs (still trailing different set ups, haven't decided which I like the best yet).

I also switched over to a 2 handed backhand (but still use my one-handed slice as normal). the 2 handed backhand might seem like a huge change at first, but now I love it and would never go back to a 1HBH. It's also so much easier to handle high heavily spun balls into your backhand when you have a 2 hander. Definitely also much easier on the elbow too since you are essentially hitting with your other hand and just using the dominant hand to guide the racquet through the shot.

I also upped the grip size a little when i moved to the Yonex (from 4 3/8 to 4 1/2).

The difference for my elbow has been substantial. I still have a little pain during play at times and a little soreness after if it's been a heavy hitting session, but nothing where I can't play or do other stuff normally, whereas with the Bab set up, my elbow was getting REALLY bad.

So your situation, getting on in years, changing racquets, using full poly, hard hitter, 1HBH, all sounds like a recipe for tennis elbow, quite similar to what happened to me.

gflyer
10-27-2009, 08:38 PM
1hbh: likely culprit (late or elbow not relatively straight on contact). Do some Internet searches on TE. You will be able to tell if your pain is in the classic 1hbh spots.

Smart to back off poly for awhile. Soft poly strings out there...e.g., Tecnifibre black code. Low 50s.

My dad, a 4.5er in his 40s had TE. He went with Tecnifibre NRG2, a high quality string, and also switched to a 2 hander, but he still slices with one hand bigtime.

Worm dampener helps, but very minor.

As you know, don't mess with soft tissue. Once you damage your arm, tennis is really tough.

I want to be helpful, but I owe TW a lot so I don't want to violate any policies. I've gotta tell you what helped my dad: this guy:

http://www.nirschl.com/

maybe he can recommend someone near you. he operated on Richard Krajicek's elbow :)

and his lateral elbow brace:

http://www.nirschl.com/braces.asp

best wishes for rescue from your nightmare. if you're 4.5, tennis is a major part of your life.

Hi gflyer,
i had a somewhat similar experience to yours, at least in several aspects. I am a few years older than you, also a fairly hard hitter, 5.0 and 1HBH, having played at a pretty high level as a junior and no prior elbow issues to speak to all these years.

BUT... then I changed racquets (away from wilson, which I've used for years) to a babolat PD as I wanted to try something that I thought might give me little more edge on the younger, faster and stronger players. I had it strung up Bab Pro Hurricane at 57.5lbs. That's when elbow issues started happening. I also tried a babolat aero storm (safina racquet) for a while which helped (softer, a little more flex than the Pure drive), but didn't help enough.

I have now switched to a Yonex RDiS100MP (98 inch head, the nalbandian racquet) and am using a soft multi (Silent Partner Filament Frenzy) at between 55-57lbs (still trailing different set ups, haven't decided which I like the best yet).

I also switched over to a 2 handed backhand (but still use my one-handed slice as normal). the 2 handed backhand might seem like a huge change at first, but now I love it and would never go back to a 1HBH. It's also so much easier to handle high heavily spun balls into your backhand when you have a 2 hander. Definitely also much easier on the elbow too since you are essentially hitting with your other hand and just using the dominant hand to guide the racquet through the shot.

I also upped the grip size a little when i moved to the Yonex (from 4 3/8 to 4 1/2).

The difference for my elbow has been substantial. I still have a little pain during play at times and a little soreness after if it's been a heavy hitting session, but nothing where I can't play or do other stuff normally, whereas with the Bab set up, my elbow was getting REALLY bad.

So your situation, getting on in years, changing racquets, using full poly, hard hitter, 1HBH, all sounds like a recipe for tennis elbow, quite similar to what happened to me.

Guys thank you so much for your support and your precious suggestions.
As you said tennis is big part of my life and just the idea of not being able to play is very upsetting. :cry:

Changing to a 2hbh sounds "scary" right now, but I will do it if nothing else works.
Thank you again. I really appreciated your replies.
Best,
G

SplitStepper
10-27-2009, 08:48 PM
I can't believe there aren't more players that have figured out the value of low tension.....i mean LOW tension. I've been playing 4.5, 5.0 tennis with a 35lbs string job. in the summer, I had full poly set-up (match power or poly polar) and now I'm crossing with Global Gut. Simply amazing feel. I play/teach about 30 hours a week and I can't go above 40lbs without losing all feel. All I can say is don't knock it til you've tried it. Give it time, your future will thank you.

AndrewD
10-27-2009, 08:51 PM
For the guys who think that poly at 60-ish pounds is a problem, back in the early 90's I used to string poly at 85lbs-100lbs. Now, that was pushing it.

Reason for the exceptionally high tension was that I was using the Snauwert Hi-Ten 50 (Mark Woodforde's old racquet) and that was the recommended tension range. My brother continued to play that racquet right up until 2006/7 when his last frame broke.

ronalditop
10-27-2009, 09:06 PM
Well im not old but I like to use polys at low tensions because it feels comfortable and gives me more ball pocketing which results in better feel. Since I changed from high to low tensions I have no elbow nor arm pain.

film1
10-27-2009, 09:22 PM
Cus I'm having a nightmare getting the syn gut cross to last more than 1 match.

I'm trying out the Pacific premium power x to see if it fairs better than other syn guts I've tried.

I love the feel of Forten kevlar but I can't take a kevlar/poly combo so I'm trying out 18x20 string pattens to see if it helps in the durability department. Heck I'll almost try anything else.

mawashi

Try og16 and hit away

kinsella
10-27-2009, 09:30 PM
Guys: take from anther old guy: Signum Pure Pro Poly Plasma will not hurt your arm. Get the 1.118 mm for mains and use an 18g synth cross (Gosen, for example) and use the same tension you used with a completely synthetic string job. Try +2 pounds tension if you were using a gut hybrid.

The only complaint I have had with customers using this string is that it is TOO SOFT. I stopped using multi-filament crosses in response to those complaints. Note my "signature."

davidm
10-27-2009, 09:58 PM
In my opinion, one important thing that in particular all older players (what's older? maybe mid-30s and upwards?) need to bear in mind:

EVERYBODY has a different body. So just because a few people post that they are in their 50s, been using polys for years, using high tension, playing 5.0, big hitter, and no arm or shoulder problem, therefore they draw the conclusion: don't worry, poly won't hurt you, or high tension won't hurt you - that doesn't mean that YOU whoever you are, won't have problems.

everyone is different. just because 2 guys are both 52 years old doesn't mean both bodies have the same tolerances. Some people's bodies will break down sooner than others in life and in different places.

the important thing I feel is listen to your OWN body. If you made a switch in your equipment (racquet, strings, grip size, etc) or your playing style and then started having problems, very likely to has to do with that change you made. It could be pure coincidence, maybe the time was "right" for you to get TE anyway because of repeated pounding over the years, we dont know for sure. But more likely it's because of that change.

On the other hand, if poly at lower tension works great for some people, it's definitely worth a try for others but no guarantee that it will solve everyone's problems. we each have to find what works best for us as the body ages.

good luck and keep playing!

bertrevert
10-27-2009, 10:10 PM
Total agreement.

By default I have an old racq with crazily old poly in it (must be 45lbs tension by now) and it feels finally just about right!

Have had poly too tight an the pain is immediate (within half hour) and in worse in dense 18x20 stringbeds.

Technatic
10-28-2009, 12:14 AM
Hi guys, I am new to this board and 60 + also.

I would like to “import” something to this discussion from the other side of the Ocean:
There is a lot of discussion about tensions to use for different racquets and for different strings.
However, because the racquets have different head sizes and different string patterns the used tensions do not give a good indication for what the player feels during play.

In my opinion it would be better to calculate from the stringbed stiffness:
- Choose a stringbed stiffness for that particular player with or without an injury.
- Measure the dimensions of the string area.
- Count the number of mains and crosses.
- Calculate the tensions based on these figures.
In Europe more and more stringers use these tables to do these calculations, I think that the system quite old already.

It has the advantage that your tension calculation is independent of the racquet you string, when the string area is bigger or there is a different number of strings you just put that into the calculation. For a 18x20 you automatically get a lower tension then for a 16x19 and for a bigger head size the tensions will be higher.

For me as a technical fanatic there is one issue that is at least so important as the right stiffness: The minimum stress in the racquet after stringing.
Because these tables calculate the tension for the mains and crosses separately the system also takes care that you get the right relation between the tension for mains and crosses.

The check on this is easy: Measure the length and the width of the string area before and after stringing and compare them. They should be the same.
If the width has become smaller the tension on the crosses was too high and the other way around.

I hope there is something useful in this for you.

BreakPoint
10-28-2009, 01:18 AM
I am going through a nightmare here.
I am 38 years old. 4.5+. Heavy hitter. 1HBH.
Never had elbow problems in my life.
About 1 month ago I started to have tender elbow that now has become serious ache.
I decided to take some time off and do some yoga.
I'd like some suggestions from you guys because I cannot figure out what triggered my TE.
I always played with full poly. I cannot stand soft stringbeds.
Before summer I've changed racquet and after some time of testing I found my perfect setup with Cyber Flash 1.25 @52x50.
I don't know if the reason of my elbow problem is in the strings but I decided to change my setup a little to see if things get better.
I was thinking about stringing MSV Hex 1.23 @52x50.
I will also try to increase a little the size of my grip (I hate to do this but I have to)
What do you guys think? Any other suggestions?
Is one of those "worm" dampeners going to help?
Thank you in advance.
IMO, the answer was right in front of you.

It takes a while to get TE as the micro tears in your elbow tendon slowly get bigger and bigger the more you use your arm to play tennis. Your elbow takes a pounding with a stiff poly stringbed especially with a 1HBH. The cumulative effect of this repetitive stress can lead to TE. Your tendons also become more brittle as you age so they become more prone to tearing.

So basically: a stiff stringbed + 1HBH + older tendons = a great recipe for tennis elbow.

origmarm
10-28-2009, 02:55 AM
Hi guys, I am new to this board and 60 + also.

I would like to “import” something to this discussion from the other side of the Ocean:
There is a lot of discussion about tensions to use for different racquets and for different strings.
However, because the racquets have different head sizes and different string patterns the used tensions do not give a good indication for what the player feels during play.

In my opinion it would be better to calculate from the stringbed stiffness:
- Choose a stringbed stiffness for that particular player with or without an injury.
- Measure the dimensions of the string area.
- Count the number of mains and crosses.
- Calculate the tensions based on these figures.
In Europe more and more stringers use these tables to do these calculations, I think that the system quite old already.

It has the advantage that your tension calculation is independent of the racquet you string, when the string area is bigger or there is a different number of strings you just put that into the calculation. For a 18x20 you automatically get a lower tension then for a 16x19 and for a bigger head size the tensions will be higher.

For me as a technical fanatic there is one issue that is at least so important as the right stiffness: The minimum stress in the racquet after stringing.
Because these tables calculate the tension for the mains and crosses separately the system also takes care that you get the right relation between the tension for mains and crosses.

The check on this is easy: Measure the length and the width of the string area before and after stringing and compare them. They should be the same.
If the width has become smaller the tension on the crosses was too high and the other way around.

I hope there is something useful in this for you.

Hi there Technatic, would you have an example of one of these tables? I'm curious to see how this corresponds to what I have noticed over the years of playing with regards to my tension preference.

regards, Orig

Technatic
10-28-2009, 04:21 AM
Of course you can get the table, there is nothing secret about them.
I would like to hear your opinion about it.
Just tell me your email address and I will send it to you.

Power Player
10-28-2009, 05:50 AM
I am younger but I already keep my poly at 54#s max. I use the Black Magic right now, and am going to check out Big Ace Micro and a few others just to experiment. I also like my current racquet since it has a lower flex rating. All of these things should help me out when it comes to long term arm health. I never have arm pain with the softer polys, lower tension and more flexible stick.

origmarm
10-28-2009, 10:29 AM
Of course you can get the table, there is nothing secret about them.
I would like to hear your opinion about it.
Just tell me your email address and I will send it to you.

Thanks Technatic that would be great. My email is origmarm@hotmail.com. Interested to see how my "feel" approach corresponds. I'll post results once I check.

Regards, Orig

Technatic
10-29-2009, 12:41 AM
origmarm Quote:
Originally Posted by Technatic

Thanks Technatic that would be great. My email is origmarm@hotmail.com. Interested to see how my "feel" approach corresponds. I'll post results once I check.

Orig: The tension table is in your mail box hereby a little more explanation about the total system, I also added the "stiffness selection diagram".
( I do not know how to get the picture into this post, what website do you use for that?)

The stiffness selection diagram is used to choose the right stiffness for every type of player man or woman, with or without an arminjury.

So you get a customer and you start to find out the right stiffness for this type of player with or without an armin jury, by answering the questions in the diagram.
This provides you with the right stiffness for a man or woman (in DT or kg/cm)

Now you go to the tension table for that particular stiffness. This table consists of 2 parts one for the mains and one for the crosses.

Measure the inside length and width of the string area and count the number of mains and crosses.
Now you can read the right tension in the tables for mains and crosses.

In the total system the choice of the strings is also included in which the strings are devided in "elongation" classes.

Technatic

gflyer
10-29-2009, 11:02 AM
Orig: The tension table is in your mail box hereby a little more explanation about the total system, I also added the "stiffness selection diagram".
( I do not know how to get the picture into this post, what website do you use for that?)

The stiffness selection diagram is used to choose the right stiffness for every type of player man or woman, with or without an arminjury.

So you get a customer and you start to find out the right stiffness for this type of player with or without an armin jury, by answering the questions in the diagram.
This provides you with the right stiffness for a man or woman (in DT or kg/cm)

Now you go to the tension table for that particular stiffness. This table consists of 2 parts one for the mains and one for the crosses.

Measure the inside length and width of the string area and count the number of mains and crosses.
Now you can read the right tension in the tables for mains and crosses.

In the total system the choice of the strings is also included in which the strings are devided in "elongation" classes.

Technatic
Technatic I think I know the tables you are talking about.
I had something similar but I cannot find them anymore on my computer.
The ones I had where from the manual of one of those devices to check string tension.
Would you be so kind to email them to me as well? I'd appreciate it very much.
my email: gflyer.tt@gmail.com
Thank you!
G.

mawashi
10-29-2009, 05:01 PM
Try og16 and hit away

Thanks film1,

I haven't tried OG16 but I remembered a staff at tw said OG Sheep is similar to prince duraflex.

When I tried a kevlar/duraflex combo it was rather disappointing. A friend tried it out but forgot to tell me about it so when I commented bout the lack of pop, feel etc, etc he said it was for lack of a better word "sticky".

The strings don't bounce back quickly n the shot lost some spin n power. Dang I which he told me about it earlier before I strung up my stick.

Perhaps OG will be better but I'm going to have a hit with this new kevlar/power x combo n see how it feels.

edit:

Oh wait I have hit with OG sheep, my bad cus it was quite a while ago n was in a poly/syn gut combo. Now that you mentioned it I might want to revisit this string cus I've almost forgot what I played like but it did feel a bit like the prince duraflex.

Cheers,

mawashi

Technatic
10-30-2009, 11:11 PM
I received some questions about the use of the stiffness diagram and the tension tables:

There is one major item that I forgot to mention:
The tables count for constant pull machines.
If you are using a lockout the matter of finding the right stiffness is a little more complicated.

It is not so that you can just add 6 lbs to the tension because the final tension depends strongly on the type of string you use.
The loss with nylons may be 6 to 10 lbs but with monos the loss is tremendous.

origmarm
11-02-2009, 01:25 AM
Hi there Technatic,

Thanks for the tables, greatfully received. I'm now back in the UK (was travelling for business) so I'm going to take a look. Looks fairly straightforward.

Regards, Orig