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Tyrus
10-27-2009, 01:13 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=4600027

Don't really know what to say.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-27-2009, 01:22 PM
What??!?!!? :oops::shock:
Chrystal meth?? Isnt that a heavy drug???

billnepill
10-27-2009, 01:26 PM
Sensation sells :)

Chadwixx
10-27-2009, 01:27 PM
He also used steroids, that flew under the radar as well.

Tyrus
10-27-2009, 01:29 PM
And we'll still think he was awesome.

Chadwixx
10-27-2009, 01:31 PM
What??!?!!? :oops::shock:
Chrystal meth?? Isnt that a heavy drug???

Its a 24 hour, drool on urself drug. I knew a few people in college who did it, they didnt move.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-27-2009, 01:33 PM
Its a 24 hour, drool on urself drug. I knew a few people in college who did it, they didnt move.
I see, during his off-year on tour...

DNShade
10-27-2009, 01:36 PM
Its a 24 hour, drool on urself drug. I knew a few people in college who did it, they didnt move.

If that's what they were doing - sitting and drooling on themselves - they sure as he11 weren't doing meth. That's not the effect at all. They would be much more likely to be cleaning the kitchen floors non-stop. It's speed.

billnepill
10-27-2009, 01:44 PM
no.. I think there has been a misunderstanding. He shoud have been on that stuff, when he said this :

"Nadal has the advantage on the clay if he is healthy. But Murray, I don't favour anybody over him on any surface at any time if he brings to the table all he can."

Sarzy
10-27-2009, 01:57 PM
What??!?!!? :oops::shock:
Chrystal meth?? Isnt that a heavy drug???

Just about the worst. He's lucky he didn't get completely addicted.

Tyrus
10-27-2009, 02:03 PM
If that's what they were doing - sitting and drooling on themselves - they sure as he11 weren't doing meth. That's not the effect at all. They would be much more likely to be cleaning the kitchen floors non-stop. It's speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT2k-6bfbD4

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-27-2009, 02:05 PM
Just about the worst. He's lucky he didn't get completely addicted.
I see, im not familiar with that stuff, and im proud of that.
That was the brooke shields hollywood era of Agassi, the only one i didnt enjoy...:?

Annika
10-27-2009, 02:13 PM
http://www.all-about-tennis.com/images/agassi1.jpg
is this when?

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-27-2009, 02:15 PM
http://www.all-about-tennis.com/images/agassi1.jpg
is this when?
Nooo, Agassi was 27 in 1997, this picture is 1990-1992 id say...

sureshs
10-27-2009, 02:15 PM
He also used steroids, that flew under the radar as well.

Like Nadal?

Lionheart392
10-27-2009, 02:17 PM
Ooh, I wonder what Steffi thinks. Of course she's probably known for yonks.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-27-2009, 02:19 PM
Ooh, I wonder what Steffi thinks. Of course she's probably known for yonks.
Steffi used to be horrible back in the days, one time in 1987 she was waiting for a cab in Hamburg, the cab was 5 minutes late due to heavy traffic and Steffi got him fired ...:-?

Btw, what is "yonks"?

Sartorius
10-27-2009, 02:20 PM
The article says Agassi did not win a major in '97. Well, that's true. But it should be noted that '97 was actually the ultimate low point of Agassi's career, IIRC he slipped out of Top 100 that year and played a very small number of matches.

Badger
10-27-2009, 02:24 PM
What!!! Will he not lose titles over that?

kslick
10-27-2009, 02:25 PM
I don't think he won any in '97 so......

Lionheart392
10-27-2009, 02:33 PM
Steffi used to be horrible back in the days, one time in 1987 she was waiting for a cab in Hamburg, the cab was 5 minutes late due to heavy traffic and Steffi got him fired ...:-?

Btw, what is "yonks"?

Really? :shock:
Teenage Steffi was quite stern. She seems so warm and lovely now though. :)
'Yonks' just means years basically. But you wouldn't say '5 yonks' instead of '5 years', that doesn't really sound right. You just say 'yonks' on its own to imply a long time.

jimbo333
10-27-2009, 02:35 PM
http://www.all-about-tennis.com/images/agassi1.jpg
is this when?

More importantly that's his original Donnay Pro One and it has a 16x19 string pattern!

I was told it was 18x20, but it is clearly a 16x19!

jrepac
10-27-2009, 02:42 PM
interesting...was he taking it when he was seeing Barbara Streisand? that would explain a lot!:)

seriously, others did far worse, far more serious stuff in the late 70's (Borg, Vitas, etc.)...big party scenes, no?

I think the obsession in sports over what are recreational drugs is pretty ridiculous...

Yet, in some sports, baseball for instance, they can down steroids for years (obvious to all), then suddenly come to a shocking conclusion of "oh my, these guys are on roids!"

In looking at Nadal, one does have to question the change in his physical appearance....did he or didn't he?

But, other than drugs that would provide a performance advantage, does any one really care much about the other stuff? I don't...it's their business, their money, their lives...

kslick
10-27-2009, 02:43 PM
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26271190-601,00.html

Little more info

Gorecki
10-27-2009, 02:45 PM
More importantly that's his original Donnay Pro One and it has a 16x19 string pattern!

I was told it was 18x20, but it is clearly a 16x19!

this is why i like you... you have very focal priorities...

now... where is VSBabolat where we need him...:)

Lsmkenpo
10-27-2009, 02:52 PM
Proof positive that the ATP has a double standard in the enforcement of their drug policy, a popular GS winner gets his positive test thrown out because it would hurt the ATP, just as much as it would hurt the player. Makes you wonder.

ahile02
10-27-2009, 02:56 PM
Proof positive that the ATP has a double standard in the enforcement of their drug policy, a popular GS winner gets his positive test thrown out because it would hurt the ATP, just as much as it would hurt the player. Makes you wonder.

Wow. Idk what to say.

This definetely makes Drakulie's theory about Nadal interesting....

old coach
10-27-2009, 03:02 PM
Proof positive that the ATP has a double standard in the enforcement of their drug policy, a popular GS winner gets his positive test thrown out because it would hurt the ATP, just as much as it would hurt the player. Makes you wonder.

You are 100% right. And not only ATP. How about promoters. They will loose $1000's ans $1000's of $$. They have no problem to buy test what ever it will cost, just to keep their players to make more money for them.

Xenakis
10-27-2009, 03:06 PM
Great publicity for his new book, I wonder how many more copies he will sell as a result?.

Seems a good ploy, take drugs without anyone knowing while playing tennis and make lots of money, then make lots more money writing books about it in retirement.

Although in this case it wasn't 'roids or performance enhancing substances so perhaps it's not so bad, good job he wasn't a professional sports house cleaner or the meth definitely would have been a problem (not sure house cleaning is a sport though, yet.)

norbac
10-27-2009, 03:06 PM
Guess Ted Robinson was right, the Agassi auto-biography is very revealing.

edberg505
10-27-2009, 03:06 PM
http://www.all-about-tennis.com/images/agassi1.jpg
is this when?

Holy crap, he looks like a Sasquatch!

LiveForever
10-27-2009, 03:07 PM
Great News. Thanks for posting. Way to go Andre!

quest01
10-27-2009, 03:12 PM
Even after admitting to using meth, would that kind of drug effect his game positively. 1997 was a year when Agassi hit rock bottom in rankings so maybe that had something to do with it. He probably felt down and out that year that he wanted to experiment with drugs. Agassi is still one of the best players, there are probably more players out there who has done drugs but never came out and admitted it, I respect what Agassi did.

SuperFly
10-27-2009, 03:13 PM
I hope some young talents don't follow in his footsteps. :shock:

Darth_Timmaayyy!!
10-27-2009, 03:22 PM
Even after admitting to using meth, would that kind of drug effect his game positively. 1997 was a year when Agassi hit rock bottom in rankings so maybe that had something to do with it. He probably felt down and out that year that he wanted to experiment with drugs. Agassi is still one of the best players, there are probably more players out there who has done drugs but never came out and admitted it, I respect what Agassi did.

But he never experimented with lead on a kPS88 ;)

federer_FREAK
10-27-2009, 03:25 PM
Proof positive that the ATP has a double standard in the enforcement of their drug policy, a popular GS winner gets his positive test thrown out because it would hurt the ATP, just as much as it would hurt the player. Makes you wonder.

I highly doubt there was as much testing done in 1997 as there is now.

Darth_Timmaayyy!!
10-27-2009, 03:33 PM
Who cares? Why do you care? Why should I care?

He is trying to sell a book.. He is no longer relevant, so I could care less if he smoked grass clippings from his lawn mower...

Its kinda like Sampras turning up late to the Wimbledon final.. With all the money in the world, there is no excuse for being late. So why was he.. Because he wanted to make an entrance and be noticed..

Its just a shame these guys cant let go some times..

SuperFly
10-27-2009, 03:46 PM
http://www.all-about-tennis.com/images/agassi1.jpg
is this when?

LMAO, that's just excellent.

lawrence
10-27-2009, 03:55 PM
Why would he use meth, surely he had enough for coke.

Meth is not a performance enhancer. I mean, its an amphetamine and all, but you'd be an idiot to try any sort of match play or training while on it.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-27-2009, 03:57 PM
Why would he use meth, surely he had enough for coke.

Meth is not a performance enhancer. I mean, its an amphetamine and all, but you'd be an idiot to try any sort of match play or training while on it.
I love your sig, just priceless :)
And also, i thought meth was the "poor mans" drugs?

rk_sports
10-27-2009, 04:00 PM
I'm soooo disappointed .. made me sad for sure to learn of this!

JennyS
10-27-2009, 04:05 PM
Was Jodie Sweetin his dealer?

bluetrain4
10-27-2009, 04:09 PM
I'm really looking forward to this book. Not so much for the revelation of his crystal meth use (which is sort of a big deal). But more so just for his inside info about life on tour, impressions of other players, and whatever "stories" he may tell.

I forgot this was about to come out. Should be interesting.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-27-2009, 04:13 PM
Agassi was lost in 1997, out of motivation, of course someone as rich as him is gonna make one wrong move in his life- i love Andre though and will always do.
One of the greatest ever, noone is questioning Maradonas greatness even though he snorted 10 million USD right up his nose

CCNM
10-27-2009, 04:17 PM
Oh my!!!!! Glad he's cleaned up. :)

Moose Malloy
10-27-2009, 04:22 PM
And also, i thought meth was the "poor mans" drugs?

It is, which makes this revelation even more baffling.

When I think of the drug most likely to be used by super rich bored guys, I think of coke.

When I think of the drug most likely to be used by someone on welfare, I think of crystal meth(which often causes teeth to fall out after prolonged use)

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-27-2009, 04:25 PM
It is, which makes this revelation even more baffling.

When I think of the drug most likely to be used by super rich bored guys, I think of coke.

When I think of the drug most likely to be used by someone on welfare, I think of crystal meth(which often causes teeth to fall out after prolonged use)
My thoughts exactly, thanx.

Lsmkenpo
10-27-2009, 04:36 PM
I highly doubt there was as much testing done in 1997 as there is now.

Testing is a complete joke, now and back than, the world anti-doping agency which administers the testing for the ATP allows a 4-1 Testosterone / Epitestosterone ratio before they raise any concerns.

For the general public the normal ratio is 1-1 and rarely more than 2-1, they
are pretty much allowing doping to occur.

jimbo333
10-27-2009, 04:41 PM
this is why i like you... you have very focal priorities...

now... where is VSBabolat where we need him...:)

Thanks, I think:)

Yeah, I'm hoping VSBabolat will be able to say. I thought he used a 16x19 string pattern in his early Donnay Pro One, and that photo proved it!

But I was told he used 18x20 in it, so I'd like to know which is correct? And if the photo was unusual or his usual set up in those days!

Hidious
10-27-2009, 04:42 PM
What's the big deal? Why would you lose respect for him because of that? He was living a party lifestyle, tried some bad stuff, didn't get addicted, moved on with his life. Great job Andre.

jimbo333
10-27-2009, 04:43 PM
http://www.all-about-tennis.com/images/agassi1.jpg
is this when?

Look, it's a 16x19 string pattern!

IvanAndreevich
10-27-2009, 04:45 PM
Clearly he went through that phase and never looked back.

martin
10-27-2009, 04:58 PM
So he tried out meth a few times and didn't get addicted.
What's the problem??

nfor304
10-27-2009, 05:02 PM
http://www.all-about-tennis.com/images/agassi1.jpg
is this when?

That is one incredibly hairy neck

nfor304
10-27-2009, 05:06 PM
The defense he used seems very much like Gasquets excuse.... I guess Gasquet just isn't a big enough star for the ATP to want to keep things quiet

Outbeyond
10-27-2009, 05:07 PM
He is trying to sell a book..Its kinda like Sampras turning up late to the Wimbledon final.. With all the money in the world, there is no excuse for being late. So why was he.. Because he wanted to make an entrance and be noticed..

Notice how Agassi's lately the news? Coming out with predictions of Federer/Nadal going down the tubes whilst Murray rises heavenward...now the meth thing...what next? Why, the book's out - that's what's next!!

Shameless plugging. But I'll be honest: I never much liked the guy anyway.

maddogz32
10-27-2009, 05:12 PM
He also used steroids, that flew under the radar as well.

prove it

10 char

jimbo333
10-27-2009, 05:17 PM
I doubt he used steroids, wasn't he more into cheeseburgers:)

bluescreen
10-27-2009, 05:44 PM
aside from his drug use, im excited to read this. i wanna compare it to pete's autobiography to examine the parallels and differences. pete would often mention what was going on with andre at several points in his career, so im curious as to how andre elaborates on some of their major cross roads (like his us open final loss in '95) and his '97.

Hypatia
10-27-2009, 05:49 PM
Great publicity for his new book, I wonder how many more copies he will sell as a result?.

Seems a good ploy, take drugs without anyone knowing while playing tennis and make lots of money, then make lots more money writing books about it in retirement.

Although in this case it wasn't 'roids or performance enhancing substances so perhaps it's not so bad, good job he wasn't a professional sports house cleaner or the meth definitely would have been a problem (not sure house cleaning is a sport though, yet.)


That sums up the situation nicely. Going by the excerpt, he admits to using the drug only once and during a very bad season for him, a relatively harmless admission.

But, other than drugs that would provide a performance advantage, does any one really care much about the other stuff? I don't...it's their business, their money, their lives...

I don’t care particularly, but when you consider the ‘war on drugs’ and ordinary people who wind up locked away for years when they are caught doing this kind of stuff, it is interesting to consider what the rich and famous are getting away with.

Agassifan
10-27-2009, 05:59 PM
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

federer_FREAK
10-27-2009, 06:00 PM
That sums up the situation nicely. Going by the excerpt, he admits to using the drug only once and during a very bad season for him, a relatively harmless admission.



I don’t care particularly, but when you consider the ‘war on drugs’ and ordinary people who wind up locked away for years when they are caught doing this kind of stuff, it is interesting to consider what the rich and famous are getting away with.

I don't think I've ever heard of someone being locked up for years for doing crystal meth. Maybe for selling, but that's a lot different than using.

Kemitak
10-27-2009, 06:03 PM
Didn't he see that episode of Family Ties, when Alex did speed? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcT5bT7dyeM
I saw it. And that's why I don't do methamphetamines.

Power Player
10-27-2009, 06:04 PM
The guy is from Vegas..a meth haven. He was probably scared to death of coke and was just in a bad enough place to where he tried something and regretted it. Its not like it made him play better. I was stunned at first, but I'm over it.

bad_call
10-27-2009, 06:09 PM
The guy is from Vegas..a meth haven. He was probably scared to death of coke and was just in a bad enough place to where he tried something and regretted it. Its not like it made him play better. I was stunned at first, but I'm over it.

same here. he had that long hair but the meth made it fall out...not my balding excuse. :)

paulorenzo
10-27-2009, 06:09 PM
http://www.all-about-tennis.com/images/agassi1.jpg
is this when?

agassi is so cool.

Blinkism
10-27-2009, 06:15 PM
Naughty Andre

but this is further proof that Sampras's achievements are meaningless.

Pioline was on crack and Ivanisevic sniffed glue.

Sorry, Cesc

:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT2k-6bfbD4

Classic

film1
10-27-2009, 06:53 PM
Sports have tried to protect their interest over their integrity but a day will come when the blinders come off, more books will be written and decisions will be made to share as opposed to hide the truth about athletes.

I still think Andre has more to share but I respect him and his decision to share what he did and my belief is people will likely embrace those more who chose to share more than those are simply exposed.

Bjorkman & Johnny Mac
10-27-2009, 08:47 PM
Agassi had his worst year in 97 where he sank below the depths of the earth in the ranking... So its not "doping" in the sense it would increase your athleticism, turn you into a machine and help you recover instantaneously from injuries.

So whatever.. Kind of a difference.. Yes a drug is drug but if thats what Andre was taking in Meth, than he sure didnt help his game any. Unlike EPO or HGH etc

big bang
10-28-2009, 01:30 AM
did he do meth or crystal meth? its two completely different drugs.

meth or speed as many call it was developed in Germany in second world war and was supposed to work the same way as adrenalin, but it just makes you completely insane after a while if you use it everyday. you cant eat and you cant sleep when you take it.

crystal meth is the worst drug the world have ever seen, you get hooked after a few times and it completely destroys you and it happens very quick.
ppl on crystal meth are like zombies and completely stoned.

crystal meth is a big problem in the states and eastern europe, its very cheap and very easy to make. so the rest of the world will have this drug in the streets very soon.. its the worst ever, stay away and warn your kids!

vive le beau jeu !
10-28-2009, 01:34 AM
not sure the timing of this euphoric news will help gasquet (who withdrew from bercy as he has another hearing -with the CAS/TAS (http://www.tas-cas.org/)- during the tournament)... merci andre. :?

Although in this case it wasn't 'roids or performance enhancing substances so perhaps it's not so bad, good job he wasn't a professional sports house cleaner or the meth definitely would have been a problem (not sure house cleaning is a sport though, yet.)
it should be an olympic sport ! http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj184/befje/smileys/bf-cleaningsmiley.gif

Mano
10-28-2009, 01:52 AM
I can't say i'm surprised drugs is used in tennis, recreational or performance wise. However, crystel meth is a big surprise.

It makes me appreciate his come back (to the top) even more, he must have been in a really bad situation.

Ps: would steffi use this info if she wants the house cleaned up??

big bang
10-28-2009, 01:59 AM
I just read the similar thread in the former pro players room and its clear he did meth(speed) and not crystal meth..

Outbeyond
10-28-2009, 02:00 AM
But it's not his taking the drug that's so shocking, not to me anyway. He never got hooked and, hell, some of us tried a weird drug or two in college and then never again, for good reason. But with Agassi, it's how he lied to the ATP about having taken the drug, pointing a finger at someone else for having supposedly spiked one of his drinks with it. That kind of thing goes to character, and while he's sorry for having written such a letter now, it makes me like him even less.

mandy01
10-28-2009, 02:08 AM
Well...its sad because he didnt own up to it then.Its just disappointing because I loved Andre and still do ofcourse..its just unbecoming of someone who was such an important representative of the sport.
Its not so much the fact that he took meth but the fact that he covered it up and got away with it.

Fedex
10-28-2009, 02:25 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine

Nuke
10-28-2009, 03:31 AM
Great publicity for his new book, I wonder how many more copies he will sell as a result?

Ya think? This seems to be the formula for autobiographies these days -- reveal a bombshell, get on the talk show circuit to hash and rehash it, and sell a lot of copies.

random guy
10-28-2009, 03:42 AM
I think the worst part of these "autobiographies" is that they don't even write them. It's always some ghost writer tiding it up or writing the whole thing. So as "auto" they're almost fake. Don't know if that's the case with Agassi's.

jimbo333
10-28-2009, 04:13 AM
Is this the first time we've heard about Agassi failing a drugs test?

He missed lots of tournaments in 97 with a wrist injury. Is it possible that he actually had some sort of short ban?

I think I'm going to have trouble believing what Agassi and ATP say about this from now on:(

sureshs
10-28-2009, 04:24 AM
Is this the first time we've heard about Agassi failing a drugs test?

He missed lots of tournaments in 97 with a wrist injury. Is it possible that he actually had some sort of short ban?

I think I'm going to have trouble believing what Agassi and ATP say about this from now on:(

It is like the cover up of steroid use by certain players

pound cat
10-28-2009, 04:35 AM
http://www.all-about-tennis.com/images/agassi1.jpg
is this when?

And then he did meth and it made him bald! Serves him right.

jimbo333
10-28-2009, 04:37 AM
It is like the cover up of steroid use by certain players

Wasn't Drakulie on these boards accusing Nadal of being banned?

It does make you think doesn't it?

I don't think I can believe what ATP say anymore:(

pound cat
10-28-2009, 04:38 AM
...........................

Rabbit
10-28-2009, 04:39 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^
excellent point.....

seems Nadal would have received a much stiffer suspension, 2 year minimum, for roids

while Agassi could have only received 3 months for meth(?)

no justice....no peace!

has the world gone crazy?

THUNDERVOLLEY
10-28-2009, 04:40 AM
Agassi and drug use is no revelation at all. I'm surprised anyone is surprised by this.

It matters not to me, as I was never a fan of his style of play to any degree, so it's a case of, "ah...oh, well." However, at least he can own up to his failings...unlike Martina Hingis.

Rabbit
10-28-2009, 04:45 AM
...unlike Martina Hingis.

UNFAIR!

Martina tested positive for cocaine after kissing Radek Stepanek at a nightclub in Rome.....wait that's not it.....

Martina tested positive for cocaine after a coke head sneezed in a subway car she was riding in at the same time in London......wait...that's not it...

Martina tested positive for cocaine after volunteering at a drug rehab in San Tropez, she inadvertently drank from an Evian bottle after one of the patients....wait...that's not it....

Martina tested positive for cocaine after her dog licked her face...the dog had just come from the Vet in Tampa after being boarded...the dog had licked one of the kennel workers who used cocaine and transferred the substance to her.....

Yeah....that's it.....

See? There's a plausible explanation for everything.

jimbo333
10-28-2009, 04:49 AM
Agassi and drug use is no revelation at all. I'm surprised anyone is surprised by this.

It matters not to me, as I was never a fan of his style of play to any degree, so it's a case of, "ah...oh, well." However, at least he can own up to his failings...unlike Martina Hingis.

I am a fan of Agassi, and this apparent revelation, makes no difference at all to me!

However, he has owned up I think to taking recreational drugs once? During a time when he was playing the worst tennis of his career. Giving impression of drugs are bad. I'd like to ask him if he ever used recreational drugs at any other time in his career, and after adtmitting to lying to ATP I wouldn't know whether to believe his answer, which is disappointing:(

MrCLEAN
10-28-2009, 06:10 AM
http://www.all-about-tennis.com/images/agassi1.jpg


This was from 1989, and I've always wondered...is that a tournagrip he was using for a headband? He did it at a couple of tournaments that year.

jwbarrientos
10-28-2009, 06:13 AM
You know, there are those days when you don't see the light ... Holy crap, should he be penalized or something?

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 06:30 AM
But he never experimented with lead on a kPS88 ;)

LOL...you are so mean Darth!:)

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 06:33 AM
Agassi was lost in 1997, out of motivation, of course someone as rich as him is gonna make one wrong move in his life- i love Andre though and will always do.
One of the greatest ever, noone is questioning Maradonas greatness even though he snorted 10 million USD right up his nose

man, you are just soooo clueless. I won't even bother explaining to you Agassi of 1997. You weren't even born yet, but you know everything. Clueless post.

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 06:37 AM
prove it

10 char

don't listen to him. he is another clueless poster.

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 06:39 AM
aside from his drug use, im excited to read this. i wanna compare it to pete's autobiography to examine the parallels and differences. pete would often mention what was going on with andre at several points in his career, so im curious as to how andre elaborates on some of their major cross roads (like his us open final loss in '95) and his '97.

I'm guessing it will be quite different. Pete's book rarely went into his personal life. He mostly discussed his career and some relationships with players/coaches. Nothing much about the lifestyle, chicks, etc. (although he was pretty straight and narrow). I hope Agassi tells us what he did not as a player, but a person. That is what dissapointed about Pete's book...not enough about him personally, but is how has always been. I think we get some good stuff about Agassi..can't wait for the book.

bluetrain4
10-28-2009, 06:53 AM
Isn't the bigger issue (from a sporting perspective) that he lied to the ATP about the meth, not the actual meth use itself (since, for the most part, it's not a performance enhancer). But, what's done is done.

Lejanius
10-28-2009, 06:54 AM
The only thing this story does is re-affirm the fact that fooling the ATP is pretty easy to do.

I love Agassi and no one was a bigger fan. The dude had some demons in his life and I am excited to read his story. As for him doing Meth, well it's not like it was a performance enhancing drug, I am super happy he was never really addicted and turned his life around.

Also I am willing to guarantee that if every athlete was this honest with their lives we wouldn't be too excited to cheer for ANY of them. This is tame compared to the stuff most guys do or have done.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-28-2009, 07:02 AM
man, you are just soooo clueless. I won't even bother explaining to you Agassi of 1997. You weren't even born yet, but you know everything. Clueless post.
I was 18 at the time and ill bet you anything i know more about Agassi than you do, you are the clueless one.

l_gonzalez
10-28-2009, 07:15 AM
The real question is this: would you take crystal meth if it meant you could hit the ball like Agassi for a couple of hours?

sureshs
10-28-2009, 07:17 AM
Wasn't Drakulie on these boards accusing Nadal of being banned?

It does make you think doesn't it?

I don't think I can believe what ATP say anymore:(

Who knows?

Fedex
10-28-2009, 08:45 AM
I am a fan of Agassi, and this apparent revelation, makes no difference at all to me!

However, he has owned up I think to taking recreational drugs once? During a time when he was playing the worst tennis of his career. Giving impression of drugs are bad. I'd like to ask him if he ever used recreational drugs at any other time in his career, and after adtmitting to lying to ATP I wouldn't know whether to believe his answer, which is disappointing:(


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXnUZBD_qV4

drakulie
10-28-2009, 09:01 AM
As I've been saying over and over to all the nay sayers>>> The ATP and it's doping policy/procedure is an abolsute joke. More over, it would be in the best interest of the ATP to cover up something like this.

I stand firm, Nadal was banned during Wimbledon for use of an illegal substance.

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 09:03 AM
I was 18 at the time and ill bet you anything i know more about Agassi than you do, you are the clueless one.

ha, you already showed you don't know diddley about Agassi.

Rabbit
10-28-2009, 09:04 AM
As I've been saying over and over to all the nay sayers>>> The ATP and it's doping policy/procedure is an abolsute joke. More over, it would be in the best interest of the ATP to cover up something like this.

I stand firm, Nadal was banned during Wimbledon for use of an illegal substance.

Guess we'll have to wait until Nadal writes his book.... ;)

jimbo333
10-28-2009, 09:11 AM
As I've been saying over and over to all the nay sayers>>> The ATP and it's doping policy/procedure is an abolsute joke. More over, it would be in the best interest of the ATP to cover up something like this.

I stand firm, Nadal was banned during Wimbledon for use of an illegal substance.

I thought that's what you'd been saying!

And I thought you were wrong, but this failed drugs test by Agassi being hidden from the public by ATP, well it certainly makes you think that it could at least be a possibility!

I think anyone actually caught using performance enhancing drugs as apposed to recreational, should be banned for life!

drakulie
10-28-2009, 09:16 AM
Guess we'll have to wait until Nadal writes his book.... ;)


I'm already satisfied. :)

NGM
10-28-2009, 09:17 AM
As I've been saying over and over to all the nay sayers>>> The ATP and it's doping policy/procedure is an abolsute joke. More over, it would be in the best interest of the ATP to cover up something like this.

I stand firm, Nadal was banned during Wimbledon for use of an illegal substance.

Make sense to me. Maybe Nadal used drugs for fun, who know? That kid won a lot with his muscles.

And ATP are bunch of idiots and morons, I hate that ****.

drakulie
10-28-2009, 09:20 AM
I thought that's what you'd been saying!

And I thought you were wrong, but this failed drugs test by Agassi being hidden from the public by ATP, well it certainly makes you think that it could at least be a possibility!

I think anyone actually caught using performance enhancing drugs as apposed to recreational, should be banned for life!


Well, fact of the matter is, tennis players are human beings and far from perfect. They have lives we don't know about. The have ambitions that may be so great, they are willing to cheat, cross boundaries, etc.

When one looks at the history of sports, and how many professionals have come out (after retirement) to say they used drugs, or cheated, or the Governing body covered up,,,,,, then we should not be surprised this also happens in tennis.

The ATP would absolutely have zero problems covering up these type of stories, and I would guess, they are going to deny Agassi' claims of being caught.

mandy01
10-28-2009, 09:23 AM
Drak ,Nadal pulled out of AO 06 too.Are you telling me he was doping then as well?
Knee tendinitits has ALWAYS been a problem for him and always caused him to pull out of events.
You could argue that Nadal was seen practicing ,training etc-But its not the same as playing matches over the course of two weeks especially when there's every chance that a match can go the distance of 5 sets.
really I cant see him serving a suspension ban of hardly two months.
recreational drugs as far as I know lead to a ban of atleast 3 months.

sureshs
10-28-2009, 09:25 AM
What is really sad is how Agassi put this stuff in a book and let it leak out just before it hits the shelves. I guess he would portray it as a humble attempt to avoid falling into addiction and tie it with his school efforts in Vegas. But to me, it looks like a cheap publicity stunt designed to stir the waters of professional tennis and give the book some quick surge in sales. Quite frankly, I never liked his new image - too much bogus piety and do-good stunts.

Murray Magic
10-28-2009, 09:28 AM
I see Sureshs and Drakuliar have good tastes when it comes to avatars.

Eviscerator
10-28-2009, 09:29 AM
And we'll still think he was awesome.

I don't know about you, but if he did those drugs, I certainly think less of him than I did before.

EKnee08
10-28-2009, 09:30 AM
I'm really looking forward to this book. Not so much for the revelation of his crystal meth use (which is sort of a big deal). But more so just for his inside info about life on tour, impressions of other players, and whatever "stories" he may tell.

I forgot this was about to come out. Should be interesting.

If that is what you are looking for, you should read Sampras'book as well. coauthored by Peter Bodo.

Cyan
10-28-2009, 09:30 AM
http://www.all-about-tennis.com/images/agassi1.jpg


This was from 1989, and I've always wondered...is that a tournagrip he was using for a headband? He did it at a couple of tournaments that year.

What a hottie he was back then... Then he lost his hair. Must have been the meth :shock:

drakulie
10-28-2009, 09:32 AM
Drak ,Nadal pulled out of AO 06 too.Are you telling me he was doping then as well?

Don't know, and I never really looked into his withdrawal there. Reasons for my beliefs this year, are from not only looking at the circumstances surrounding the withdrawal, but from speaking to well respected people in the USTA.

As for the rest of your post>>> I simply don't buy it. He played nearly 20 matches, according to him "with knee problems and injured", yet withdraws from the biggest tournament in the world, as the Defending Champion, and tournament he refers to as the most important. In addition to playing two meaningless exos immediately before the tourney began. Nuff said.

Murray Magic
10-28-2009, 09:32 AM
^^What's up with that neck? Hairier than my cat.

sureshs
10-28-2009, 09:32 AM
I don't know about you, but if he did those drugs, I certainly think less of him than I did before.

Yup I agree. Now that he is a celebrity, it is somehow "all right."

But there are rumors that he was doing funky stuff as early as in his Bollitierri days when the place was just not organized at all.

bad_call
10-28-2009, 09:37 AM
Yup I agree. Now that he is a celebrity, it is somehow "all right."

But there are rumors that he was doing funky stuff as early as in his Bollitierri days when the place was just not organized at all.

wouldn't surprise me if NB was hitting something. :shock:

EKnee08
10-28-2009, 09:41 AM
I'm guessing it will be quite different. Pete's book rarely went into his personal life. He mostly discussed his career and some relationships with players/coaches. Nothing much about the lifestyle, chicks, etc. (although he was pretty straight and narrow). I hope Agassi tells us what he did not as a player, but a person. That is what dissapointed about Pete's book...not enough about him personally, but is how has always been. I think we get some good stuff about Agassi..can't wait for the book.

Dead on! No mention of Delaina Mulcahy, etc.

hifi heretic
10-28-2009, 09:45 AM
Quite frankly, I never liked his new image - too much bogus piety and do-good stunts.

..Wow, you're hard to please. ..You're not happy when he's admitting to being flawed and you're not happy when he's doing good deeds for his community. ..With respect to the latter, you could hardly call his charitable acts mere window-dressing. ..By all accounts he has poured tons of money and (even more impressive) time into developing his school in LV. ..So what if he enjoys patting himself on the back over it? ..The world would be a better place if more celebrities followed his lead.

For me the surprise isn't that he's admitting to having used meth and denying it to the ATP. It's that soo many people thought the guy was ever an angel.

mandy01
10-28-2009, 09:47 AM
Don't know, and I never really looked into his withdrawal there. Reasons for my beliefs this year, are from not only looking at the circumstances surrounding the withdrawal, but from speaking to well respected people in the USTA.

As for the rest of your post>>> I simply don't buy it. He played nearly 20 matches, according to him "with knee problems and injured", yet withdraws from the biggest tournament in the world, as the Defending Champion, and tournament he refers to as the most important. In addition to playing two meaningless exos immediately before the tourney began. Nuff said.
If I may ask who are these people from the USTA?

drakulie
10-28-2009, 09:50 AM
^^^Not going to give out names of people I know both personally and professionally. However, I will say this.....

I've heard from other friends, who have heard the same>> from people they know in the USTA. So it seems to be something that is more than just "rumor" when you have several officials in the USTA who don't know one another, saying these things.

Murray Magic
10-28-2009, 09:52 AM
^^^Not going to give out names of people I know both personally and professionally

That's due to the fact you've made this whole fairytale up and in reality there i no one from the USTA who you know.

Puma
10-28-2009, 10:02 AM
I really don't see any of this as news. Look at what he was. Now, look at what he is. Sometimes people have to take a few wrong turns to find their path in life. I am just glad for him and the sport of tennis that he found the path he did. Good for him.

I also find his comments (Agassi) about this quite interesting. The part about the reader realizing things about themselves is quite profound. Some will think less of him because of this. Some won't. Some people choose to believe in growth and second chances in life. Some don't. Some see the cup half full and some see it half empty. So, Andre is right. If a person changes their view on Agassi after the drug thing, well, then, they really didn't know much about him in the first place............

NGM
10-28-2009, 10:11 AM
. If a person changes their view on Agassi after the drug thing, well, then, they really didn't know much about him in the first place............

Well, he confessed just one. Maybe he used many other performance-enhancing drugs but dont want to tell us.

hifi heretic
10-28-2009, 10:17 AM
Did anyone really think there was nothing like this in his past?? How many people who have lived a life like his have avoided this?

- The son of an over ambitious stage parent father who traded away his kids youth and right to pick his own pursuits for vicarious fame

- The kid over achieves and earns millions of dollars at an age when most kids have to save for a few weeks to buy a cd.

- More praise and attention is piled on this kid then any human should receive in a lifetime

- The kids is offered a fat sponsorship contract with Canon which - encapsulating all that is ill with fame - is called "Image is Everything"

honestly, I'm surprised his life didn't end with him bending a Porsche around a tree or a total spiral into drug abuse.

C'mon. ..Give the guy credit. He's turned his life around and - if nothing else - seems determined to NOT be the sort of miserable and despicable parent his dad must have been. ..Add to this what he is doing with this charter school and you have a pretty damn decent human being. ..Most of us here on this forum probably don't compare so favorably.

sureshs
10-28-2009, 11:03 AM
wouldn't surprise me if NB was hitting something. :shock:

I think he takes a boatload of vitamins and that kind of stuff, if I recall correctly

sureshs
10-28-2009, 11:08 AM
..Wow, you're hard to please. ..You're not happy when he's admitting to being flawed and you're not happy when he's doing good deeds for his community. ..With respect to the latter, you could hardly call his charitable acts mere window-dressing. ..By all accounts he has poured tons of money and (even more impressive) time into developing his school in LV. ..So what if he enjoys patting himself on the back over it? ..The world would be a better place if more celebrities followed his lead.

For me the surprise isn't that he's admitting to having used meth and denying it to the ATP. It's that soo many people thought the guy was ever an angel.

People never thought he was an angel. They just loved him. Not the same thing at all.

I have no trouble with his admitting he is flawed. What I don't like is the timing - to please his publishers of course, and the fact that he makes the ATP look like fools. He could have just admitted it without saying he was caught. Why did he not do that?

He and his wife have also had business conflicts with former friends and partners resulting in lawsuits. He is all about money now, with a little bit thrown here and there to boost his ego. I wouldn't be surprised if the fame that his charity gets him has generated more money for him than what he has contributed. That is how business charities work. They provide a hotline for individuals or corporations to local mayors and politicians, who then give them concessions.

Mike Cottrill
10-28-2009, 11:15 AM
Don't know, and I never really looked into his withdrawal there. Reasons for my beliefs this year, are from not only looking at the circumstances surrounding the withdrawal, but from speaking to well respected people in the USTA.
.

Drak,
Are the drug test results confidential? Only made public if player makes it so?

MEAC_ALLAMERICAN
10-28-2009, 11:22 AM
http://www.all-about-tennis.com/images/agassi1.jpg
is this when?

He also admits to wearing hair pieces in the book. I don’t see the big deal; then again I can’t remain too objective when it comes to AA.

hifi heretic
10-28-2009, 11:24 AM
He and his wife have also had business conflicts with former friends and partners resulting in lawsuits. He is all about money now, with a little bit thrown here and there to boost his ego. I wouldn't be surprised if the fame that his charity gets him has generated more money for him than what he has contributed. That is how business charities work. They provide a hotline for individuals or corporations to local mayors and politicians, who then give them concessions.

He's all about money now?? ..What evidence can you offer to support such a claim?? If so, why build a school at all?? Why not pursue other charities that are much less demanding of time and money?? And how has this added to his personal wealth? ..Apart from a few product sponsorships (only the one watch company comes to mind) how is he benefitting from his association with this charity?? ..Does he do speaking engagments? ..Consulting?? ..I don't think so. He plays a bit of WTT, seniors tennis, and exhibitions. ..And that's about it. ..If you're suggesting that he's paying himself a big salary as head of the school, I doubt it. ..He would be quickly and publicly eviscerated for this. And as for business conflicts with former friends/ partners this seems to be true of nearly all famous/ wealthy people. The rich and famous have always attracted lots of hangers-on who eventually turn on them. ..Who knows where the truth lies on this.

sureshs
10-28-2009, 11:25 AM
There was a rumor that he might run for office

SirGounder
10-28-2009, 11:27 AM
So he did some drugs while at the low point of his career. I still love him. Makes him seem much more human now that we know he had flaws. With all his work in the community and great accomplishments he was looking to perfect.

sureshs
10-28-2009, 11:34 AM
I am trying to think if he did the right thing for the children in his school. They seem totally in awe of him. They speak in reverential tones at public events extolling his virtues (do they have a choice???). Now the kids learn that he did drugs. There are many "Slim"s in Vegas who will be happy to supply to them. His description that there was a moment of guilt, followed by the most euphoric experience in his life seems very seductive - he felt so alive, so hopeful - that almost makes me want to try it. So are the kids going to be tempted to experiment, reassuring themselves that they will never become addicted just like Agassi did not become?

hifi heretic
10-28-2009, 11:48 AM
So now he's letting the kids down because - despite having provided them with a college preparatory education that would have been unavailable to nearly every kid there - he's not putting the proper spin on his first drug experience. This is BS. ..First off, he didn't sign up to be every one of these kids' father. ..They shouldn't look at him as such. Secondly, for kids to avoid succumbing to drugs they need TRUTH, not "reefer-madness" like spin. Andre's experience of trying and not succumbing to drugs is a single solitary example of someone trying drugs without it destroying them. ..But I'm sure each of those kids knows many many other examples of people who did the same and their life was ruined. ..I'm sure this isn't lost on them.

sureshs
10-28-2009, 12:06 PM
So now he's letting the kids down because - despite having provided them with a college preparatory education that would have been unavailable to nearly every kid there - he's not putting the proper spin on his first drug experience. This is BS. ..First off, he didn't sign up to be every one of these kids' father. ..They shouldn't look at him as such. Secondly, for kids to avoid succumbing to drugs they need TRUTH, not "reefer-madness" like spin. Andre's experience of trying and not succumbing to drugs is a single solitary example of someone trying drugs without it destroying them. ..But I'm sure each of those kids knows many many other examples of people who did the same and their life was ruined. ..I'm sure this isn't lost on them.

The TRUTH is lots of people have no problem with taking drugs. People have been taking some kind of stimulant for thousands of years. Many natural substances have psychedelic effects. But is this the TRUTH that they need to know, at their age?

I was also intrigued that some 98% of the students from that academy go to college. Isn't that strange? Make me wonder if it is a setup and colleges are pressured to accept them.

THUNDERVOLLEY
10-28-2009, 12:06 PM
As I've been saying over and over to all the nay sayers>>> The ATP and it's doping policy/procedure is an abolsute joke. More over, it would be in the best interest of the ATP to cover up something like this.

I stand firm, Nadal was banned during Wimbledon for use of an illegal substance.

Provide some proof--even reports based on reasonable suspicion--anything which calls official statements into question.

NamRanger
10-28-2009, 12:14 PM
Provide some proof--even reports based on reasonable suspicion--anything which calls official statements into question.



A. The ITF's drug testing system is easily fooled. It is in fact one of the weakest systems ever. This whole business about tennis having a strict testing system is total BULLCRAP made up so that people don't worry about steroids/doping.

B. There is precedence set in the past that shows the ATP/ITF will sweep things under the rug if they feel that it will damage the sport. Good examples are the recent Agassi meth incident, along with the infamous Rusedski case where it somehow got dismissed under bogus circumstances.

C. Nadal has been accused by a newspaper of being on the list of Doctor Fuentes, well known doping doctor. Not just that, Doctor Fuentes himself admits that he has helped tennis players, soccer players, etc. and not just cyclists.

D. The list has never been released as it is being held up in court by Spanish authorities. Hrm, I WONDER WHY? The only thing the Spanish authorities have said on the matter is that "don't worry we are telling the truth *wink* ".

E. As Drakulie stated, Nadal's Wimbledon withdrawal was dubious and can be considered suspicious.




These all tie together and there's an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest that many top players in fact have the opportunity to dope, and that it is absurdly easy to get away with it. Even if they do, they can just say "Dude, it was an accident" and get away with it, like Agassi did.

hifi heretic
10-28-2009, 12:19 PM
I was also intrigued that some 98% of the students from that academy go to college. Isn't that strange? Make me wonder if it is a setup and colleges are pressured to accept them.

wow, your disdain for AA runs deep. ..I guess you would have preferred that he used the drugs, but kept it to himself, then after retiring from tennis simply wind down his remaining years resting comfortably in a big mansion somewhere living like a hugh hefner. That way no one would be tainted by his bogus piety and horrible do-gooder spirit. Would you like him better then?

sureshs
10-28-2009, 12:20 PM
^^^ Sorry that is no evidence at all, not even grounds for suspicion. Just insisting that it could have happened and denying that progress has been made in this area of testing is not rational.

film1
10-28-2009, 12:22 PM
His trainer deserves a lot of credit, it's got to be difficult to bulk up players who do massive amounts of cardio and gain size fast.

sureshs
10-28-2009, 12:23 PM
wow, your disdain for AA runs deep. ..I guess you would have preferred that he used the drugs, but kept it to himself, then after retiring from tennis simply wind down his remaining years resting comfortably in a big mansion somewhere living like a hugh hefner. That way no one would be tainted by his bogus piety and horrible do-gooder spirit. Would you like him better then?

By now, I have seen many programs about this academy on Tennis Channel. The students and teachers seem to be puppets of the giant Agassi publicity machine and repeat testimonials like robots. I also don't like the idea of an educational institution which revolves around individual personalities. A school is not a Bollitierri's academy where you put one guy's name everywhere.

~ZoSo~
10-28-2009, 12:25 PM
Provide some proof--even reports based on reasonable suspicion--anything which calls official statements into question.

Yoda and obiwan came to drak u liar in a dream and revealed the whole dastardly plot.

NamRanger
10-28-2009, 12:25 PM
^^^ Sorry that is no evidence at all, not even grounds for suspicion. Just insisting that it could have happened and denying that progress has been made in this area of testing is not rational.




That is not evidence? How is it not evidence?



The testing has not made any progress at all. The ITF does hardly any testing for EPO and other PEDs (only did like 5-10 last year), and hardly does out of competition testing (and that is all urine tests). Blood tests are all done at Grand Slam tournaments, but we know how easy it is to get around that.



Nadal's name is supposedly on some list, yet the list is held up by Spanish Authorities who refuse to release the list. Wonder why? Because it would absolutely ruin the reputation of Spanish athletes. Could you imagine what would happen if Nadal's name happened to be on that list? It would absolutely ruin Spanish sports.



How come Nadal is always the target of doping accusations? How come he was the one who supposedly showed up on Doctor Fuentes list, and how come it has never been released? How come the ATP just sweeps some cases under the rug and dismisses them under dubious circumstances? I think there's alot more that goes on than the public knows. That's quite obvious from this recent news from Agassi.

Mike Cottrill
10-28-2009, 12:27 PM
The ATP would absolutely have zero problems covering up these type of stories, and I would guess, they are going to deny Agassi' claims of being caught.

How do you know he was not suspended? He was out for 2.5 months that year stating wrist injury (cough cough knee injury lol).
Again, are the drug test results confidential and only made public by the player? So were is the cover up here?

NamRanger
10-28-2009, 12:33 PM
How do you know he was not suspended? He was out for 2.5 months that year stating wrist injury (cough cough knee injury lol).
Again, are the drug test results confidential and only made public by the player? So were is the cover up here?



All suspensions are made public. The thing is that if he was supposedly out with injury and that no public suspension was made, that makes the ATP/ITF look really, really, really bad. That's the way I understand the ITF's Drug Policies though from what I have read.

hifi heretic
10-28-2009, 12:33 PM
By now, I have seen many programs about this academy on Tennis Channel. The students and teachers seem to be puppets of the giant Agassi publicity machine and repeat testimonials like robots. I also don't like the idea of an educational institution which revolves around individual personalities. A school is not a Bollitierri's academy where you put one guy's name everywhere.

you're kidding, right?? Is your name Holden Caulfield?

his grandiose style notwithstanding, what percentage of these kids would have otherwise made it to college?? And how many schools throughout the country are named after an individual?? Too many to count, perhaps? ..I'm sure every kid at his school is thankful that Andre doesn't share your sensibilities regarding what celebrities should or shouldn't do with their fame.

sureshs
10-28-2009, 12:34 PM
That is not evidence? How is it not evidence?



The testing has not made any progress at all. The ITF does hardly any testing for EPO and other PEDs (only did like 5-10 last year), and hardly does out of competition testing (and that is all urine tests). Blood tests are all done at Grand Slam tournaments, but we know how easy it is to get around that.



Nadal's name is supposedly on some list, yet the list is held up by Spanish Authorities who refuse to release the list. Wonder why? Because it would absolutely ruin the reputation of Spanish athletes. Could you imagine what would happen if Nadal's name happened to be on that list? It would absolutely ruin Spanish sports.



How come Nadal is always the target of doping accusations? How come he was the one who supposedly showed up on Doctor Fuentes list, and how come it has never been released? How come the ATP just sweeps some cases under the rug and dismisses them under dubious circumstances? I think there's alot more that goes on than the public knows. That's quite obvious from this recent news from Agassi.

Your arguments are so flimsy it is difficult to answer them. Nadal is the target because of his muscles and the fact that he can trounce Federer, the darling of club players who love his elegant game. Nadal is supposedly on some supposed list, somebody is not releasing names, etc is a good plot for a novel, but don't confuse it with reality. And if you want to deny any progress in testing and ignore the vast advances, no one can really convince you otherwise. No system is perfect. Remember one basic principle: Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Otherwise, all of us could be locked up on the grounds of having not proven to be innocent.

sureshs
10-28-2009, 12:37 PM
you're kidding, right?? Is your name Holden Caulfield?

his grandiose style notwithstanding, what percentage of these kids would have otherwise made it to college?? And how many schools throughout the country are named after an individual?? Too many to count, perhaps? ..I'm sure every kid at his school is thankful that Andre doesn't share your sensibilities regarding what celebrities should or shouldn't do with their fame.

Yeah but those individuals are usually community figures of the past, not someone who drops by every now and then. My son's elementary school was named after a local milkman! Nothing wrong with that. But he was not being featured on TV explaining how great the milkman was, and the teachers were not singing his praises.

NamRanger
10-28-2009, 12:54 PM
Your arguments are so flimsy it is difficult to answer them. Nadal is the target because of his muscles and the fact that he can trounce Federer, the darling of club players who love his elegant game. Nadal is supposedly on some supposed list, somebody is not releasing names, etc is a good plot for a novel, but don't confuse it with reality. And if you want to deny any progress in testing and ignore the vast advances, no one can really convince you otherwise. No system is perfect. Remember one basic principle: Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Otherwise, all of us could be locked up on the grounds of having not proven to be innocent.



Absence of evidence? Uh, no.


The Doctor Fuentes list that the Spanish Government refuses to release is actually a big pivotal piece of evidence. If Nadal's name happens to be on the list, he's pretty lucky that the Spanish Government also happens to be tying it up in court so the public / other anti-doping authorities don't get to see it.



Nadal's name is reportedly on that list because there are suspicions. Period. If the list cannot be released, he will remain in suspicion. The evidence presented against Nadal shows that it would be very easy to dope and get away with it, and if caught, he could easily make up some excuse and still get away freely. No hard evidence links Nadal to doping, but there is a ton of circumstantial evidence that is building up against him.



You can defend Nadal till the hills come home, but there is a ton of facts that put him in an unfavorable light.


A. Nadal is known for his unbreakable stamina

B. Nadal's home country had a huge scandal with Doctor Fuentes, who allegedly (and admitted to it) helped tennis players, cyclists, and soccer players gain an unfair advantage over other competitors.

C. Doctor Fuentes' list is tied up in court for who knows how long. We probably won't know who all 200 athletes are until 30 years by now.

D. The ITF's testing policy and repeated attempts to sweep things under the rug both show that it would be incredibly easy for a marquee player to dope, get away with, and avoid punishment should he be caught.

E. Recent actions by Nadal prove to be extremely contradictory of his usual attitude, which is to no matter what, play every tournament he possibly can. The man played Rotterdam injured for crying out loud. You think he can't buckle those knees up and take a little tendinitis for playing the world's most PRESTIGIOUS TOURNAMENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT. Really?




I mean, this is like there's a dead body next to you, a gun near you, blood stains on you, and you saying you didn't do it. How much more evidence do you want?

hifi heretic
10-28-2009, 01:02 PM
Yeah but those individuals are usually community figures of the past, not someone who drops by every now and then. My son's elementary school was named after a local milkman! Nothing wrong with that. But he was not being featured on TV explaining how great the milkman was, and the teachers were not singing his praises.


Answer this simple question: Has Andre's charitable efforts positively affected ANY of the kids at his school? ..Maybe 10 kids, or 5, or even 1? If you agree that he has then give up this ridiculous argument. Just because you don't like his style shouldn't prevent you from admiring the good he's done. ..Sheesh.

Datacipher
10-28-2009, 01:08 PM
Nooo, Agassi was 27 in 1997, this picture is 1990-1992 id say...

No. Actually that picture would be from 1989.

Datacipher
10-28-2009, 01:14 PM
The funniest thing about the Nadal-steroid conspircy theorists is that they don't REALIZE that it's JUST AS LIKELY (which is to say VERY LIKELY) that Fed is doping. What a bunch of schmucks! (ooh no...I suspect Nadal b/c of his muscles...Fed CAN'T BE!!! LOL! My god, been saying this for so many years now...people still don't get it....and are still driven only by fanboyism)

Cyan
10-28-2009, 01:18 PM
The funniest thing about the Nadal-steroid conspircy theorists is that they don't REALIZE that it's JUST AS LIKELY (which is to say VERY LIKELY) that Fed is doping. What a bunch of schmucks! (ooh no...I suspect Nadal b/c of his muscles...Fed CAN'T BE!!! LOL! My god, been saying this for so many years now...people still don't get it....and are still driven only by fanboyism)

Exactly.............. Notice Fed's stamina in the RG SF vs Del Potro. Hmmmmmmmm. Fishy.... Del Potro was done in the 5th set and Fed was fresh as a daisy. Clearly the swiss is doping.

Mike Cottrill
10-28-2009, 01:18 PM
All suspensions are made public. The thing is that if he was supposedly out with injury and that no public suspension was made, that makes the ATP/ITF look really, really, really bad. That's the way I understand the ITF's Drug Policies though from what I have read.

Seems like you may be right but violation has to occur. Is the ATP calling Agassi out on a fib?
"
Later the ATP released a statement regarding Agassi's claims.
They explained: "It has always been ATP policy not to comment on anti-doping test results unless and until an anti-doping violation has occurred.
"Under the tennis anti-doping programme it is, and has always been, an independent panel that makes a decision on whether a doping violation has been found.
"The ATP has always followed this rule and no executive at the ATP has therefore had the authority or ability to decide the outcome of an anti-doping matter.""

http://www.sportinglife.com/tennis/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=tennis/09/10/28/TENNIS_Agassi.html

NamRanger
10-28-2009, 01:34 PM
The funniest thing about the Nadal-steroid conspircy theorists is that they don't REALIZE that it's JUST AS LIKELY (which is to say VERY LIKELY) that Fed is doping. What a bunch of schmucks! (ooh no...I suspect Nadal b/c of his muscles...Fed CAN'T BE!!! LOL! My god, been saying this for so many years now...people still don't get it....and are still driven only by fanboyism)



Where's Federer's name on a supposed Doctor Fuentes list? Is there anyone in Federer's home country that admits to helping tennis players dope? Nope, don't see anyone. Sorry dude, try presenting some evidence and I might believe you. Nadal gets higher levels of suspicion than Federer currently.

NamRanger
10-28-2009, 01:36 PM
Seems like you may be right but violation has to occur. Is the ATP calling Agassi out on a fib?
"
Later the ATP released a statement regarding Agassi's claims.
They explained: "It has always been ATP policy not to comment on anti-doping test results unless and until an anti-doping violation has occurred.
"Under the tennis anti-doping programme it is, and has always been, an independent panel that makes a decision on whether a doping violation has been found.
"The ATP has always followed this rule and no executive at the ATP has therefore had the authority or ability to decide the outcome of an anti-doping matter.""

http://www.sportinglife.com/tennis/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=tennis/09/10/28/TENNIS_Agassi.html




Well if a violation occured (which in this case it did, as it's still a violation of the anti-doping rules), then Agassi SHOULD have been called out.



However, knowing the ITF's incredibly weak policy among many other things (such as that Rusedski incident that just disappeared due to "contaminated substances from ATP doctors"), I wouldn't be surprised if Agassi really was telling the truth.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-28-2009, 01:58 PM
ha, you already showed you don't know diddley about Agassi.
Whats your problem? Why does ur attitude suck? Tell me WHAT/WHY you reached that conclusion.
Your avatar probably tells all about the kind of person you are, wow dude, Pete Sampras smoking a cigar- thats about the coolest thing youve ever seen!
Ill bet YOU ANYTHING i know a hell of a lot more about tennis AND Agassi than you do!

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 02:08 PM
I see Sureshs and Drakuliar have good tastes when it comes to avatars.

you have to be the biggest ****** on the boards..MAXIMO. I will send your info to a mod, you will be banned again.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-28-2009, 02:09 PM
No. Actually that picture would be from 1989.
Oh yeah i was 1 year off-how terrible...

JennyS
10-28-2009, 02:15 PM
Where's Federer's name on a supposed Doctor Fuentes list? Is there anyone in Federer's home country that admits to helping tennis players dope? Nope, don't see anyone. Sorry dude, try presenting some evidence and I might believe you. Nadal gets higher levels of suspicion than Federer currently.

Check out this blog post linking to a Swedish article. Federer wants the ITF to save all doping tests for 8 years!

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com/2009/10/federer-discussing-doping.html

Very interesting. The only reason he would want this would be because he believes that many of today's drugs are undetectable by current testing. If Federer was doping at all, there is no way at all he would ask the ITF to keep tests for 8 years!

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 02:15 PM
I am trying to think if he did the right thing for the children in his school. They seem totally in awe of him. They speak in reverential tones at public events extolling his virtues (do they have a choice???). Now the kids learn that he did drugs. There are many "Slim"s in Vegas who will be happy to supply to them. His description that there was a moment of guilt, followed by the most euphoric experience in his life seems very seductive - he felt so alive, so hopeful - that almost makes me want to try it. So are the kids going to be tempted to experiment, reassuring themselves that they will never become addicted just like Agassi did not become?

you are an amazingly ridiculous poster. I am in awe how judemental and close-minded you are. Anyone that makes a mistake and you are all over them. seriously, I am glad I don't personally know you. you must be detested in real life, so you come here and make absurd judgements. Its ok to bust some balls and what not, but to go on and on is just flat out amazing.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-28-2009, 02:16 PM
Check out this blog post linking to a Swedish article. Federer wants the ITF to save all doping tests for 8 years!

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com/2009/10/federer-discussing-doping.html

Very interesting. The only reason he would want this would be because he believes that many of today's drugs are undetectable by current testing. If Federer was doping at all, there is no way at all he would ask the ITF to keep tests for 8 years!
Im Swedish, and ive read that article, and you are spot on!

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 02:17 PM
The TRUTH is lots of people have no problem with taking drugs. People have been taking some kind of stimulant for thousands of years. Many natural substances have psychedelic effects. But is this the TRUTH that they need to know, at their age?

I was also intrigued that some 98% of the students from that academy go to college. Isn't that strange? Make me wonder if it is a setup and colleges are pressured to accept them.

here you show your complete ignorance. do you have any proof? to bad this is a forum where you can hide your identity, it allows people like you to SLANDER. Its not like these kids all go to Harvard.

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 02:20 PM
Provide some proof--even reports based on reasonable suspicion--anything which calls official statements into question.

to you? his statement is not exactly absurd. lots of people have talked about Nadal and doping. he already told you he has talked to some people within the USTA. what purpose would he have to lie?

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 02:21 PM
wow, your disdain for AA runs deep. ..I guess you would have preferred that he used the drugs, but kept it to himself, then after retiring from tennis simply wind down his remaining years resting comfortably in a big mansion somewhere living like a hugh hefner. That way no one would be tainted by his bogus piety and horrible do-gooder spirit. Would you like him better then?

you should read his disdain for Justin Gimesltob. sureshs acts as if JG killed Anna K. and should be hung, quartered and his bowels burned. No kidding, sureshs has a screw loose.

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 02:25 PM
Whats your problem? Why does ur attitude suck? Tell me WHAT/WHY you reached that conclusion.
Your avatar probably tells all about the kind of person you are, wow dude, Pete Sampras smoking a cigar- thats about the coolest thing youve ever seen!
Ill bet YOU ANYTHING i know a hell of a lot more about tennis AND Agassi than you do!

LOL, you're clueless. you never watched Agassi even play. You have seen him on youtube clips and that makes you an expert?

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 02:27 PM
Oh yeah i was 1 year off-how terrible...

1992-1989=3

glad to know the Swedes know how to subtract 4 digit integers.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-28-2009, 02:29 PM
LOL, you're clueless. you never watched Agassi even play. You have seen him on youtube clips and that makes you an expert?
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, i think you should visit a mental institution, youre just trolling, im not even gonna respond to any of your trolling anymore.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-28-2009, 02:31 PM
1992-1989=3

glad to know the Swedes know how to subtract 4 digit integers.
1990-1989=1...oh so now you are trolling about an entire nation, youre such a tough dude.

Cantankersore
10-28-2009, 02:34 PM
LOL, you're clueless. you never watched Agassi even play. You have seen him on youtube clips and that makes you an expert?

I'm sure a former ranked tennis player hasn't seen Agassi play. Anyway, he did make a good point here:

Your avatar probably tells all about the kind of person you are, wow dude, Pete Sampras smoking a cigar- thats about the coolest thing youve ever seen!

It goes nicely with your "Location: Next door to Elisha Cuthbert." Anyway, a stellar return to form, from the famous:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9343/sampras3.jpg

Seany
10-28-2009, 02:41 PM
Agassi is a loser

JennyS
10-28-2009, 02:50 PM
Im Swedish, and ive read that article, and you are spot on!

Thank you:D

dora_75
10-28-2009, 02:52 PM
did he do meth or crystal meth? its two completely different drugs.

meth or speed as many call it was developed in Germany in second world war and was supposed to work the same way as adrenalin, but it just makes you completely insane after a while if you use it everyday. you cant eat and you cant sleep when you take it.

crystal meth is the worst drug the world have ever seen, you get hooked after a few times and it completely destroys you and it happens very quick.
ppl on crystal meth are like zombies and completely stoned.

crystal meth is a big problem in the states and eastern europe, its very cheap and very easy to make. so the rest of the world will have this drug in the streets very soon.. its the worst ever, stay away and warn your kids!

more precisely: Amphetamine was first synthesized by Romanian chemist Lazar Edeleanu. It was originaly sold by prescription for use in the treatment of narcolepsy and ADHD -- keeps you awake :) that's why they used in in WW2

GS
10-28-2009, 03:00 PM
I'm glad I didn't pay $40+ to see Agassi play here 10 years ago when he was cruising in a 2nd round match, then went crazy and called a lineman a gutless mother****** 3 times in a row, then got defaulted. 3 years earlier, he got defaulted for the same thing in Indianapolis.
If you read Bollettieri's book, Nick wrote that he never charged Agassi or Seles a dime for lodging, food or coaching at his academy. Later on, Nick simply asked for $200,000 from each of them, which they refused to pay.
I liked Agassi's and Seles' play on the court, but off the court? Pretty lame.
I'm not a fan of Bollettieri, but he's got way more integrity than those 2 players.

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 03:04 PM
1990-1989=1...oh so now you are trolling about an entire nation, youre such a tough dude.

took you all of 2 seconds to ignore me...weak, very weak.

settolove
10-28-2009, 03:07 PM
Seriously surprised by the ATP cover up. Shocking. :rolleyes:

Interesting blog here: http://blog.tennisweek.com/?p=678

Apparently Agassi's former friend Perry Rogers might be having a tell all book of his own...

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 03:07 PM
I'm sure a former ranked tennis player hasn't seen Agassi play. Anyway, he did make a good point here:



It goes nicely with your "Location: Next door to Elisha Cuthbert." Anyway, a stellar return to form, from the famous:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9343/sampras3.jpg

this pic is absolutely hysterical . one of the all-time best posts. if you think it upsets me you are quite mistaken. I am proud to be in it and find it extremely funny.

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 03:11 PM
I'm glad I didn't pay $40+ to see Agassi play here 10 years ago when he was cruising in a 2nd round match, then went crazy and called a lineman a gutless mother****** 3 times in a row, then got defaulted. 3 years earlier, he got defaulted for the same thing in Indianapolis.
If you read Bollettieri's book, Nick wrote that he never charged Agassi or Seles a dime for lodging, food or coaching at his academy. Later on, Nick simply asked for $200,000 from each of them, which they refused to pay.
I liked Agassi's and Seles' play on the court, but off the court? Pretty lame.
I'm not a fan of Bollettieri, but he's got way more integrity than those 2 players.


was this in Nick's book? has Agassi or Seles ever refuted this publicly? curious because if it were true, then that would be bad on Seles/Agassi's part. But there are 2 sides to every story, maybe Andre will bring it up in his book. Nick (just guessing) basically stated he was not paid a dime by either player?? that would be bad, much worse than the drug experiment by Andre.

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 03:13 PM
1990-1989=1...oh so now you are trolling about an entire nation, youre such a tough dude.

sorry, but your no counting Swede glute wrote 1992. you can't ignore that. you can't say 1990...you were 3 years off. should I show you how to figure this equation out??

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 03:15 PM
1990-1989=1...oh so now you are trolling about an entire nation, youre such a tough dude.



I also think you are not a true Swede. probably from another country living in Sweden. never met/knew a Swede as ignorant (know-nothing) as you, every Swede I have ever known were truly wonderful people.

hifi heretic
10-28-2009, 03:18 PM
If you read Bollettieri's book, Nick wrote that he never charged Agassi or Seles a dime for lodging, food or coaching at his academy. Later on, Nick simply asked for $200,000 from each of them, which they refused to pay.
I liked Agassi's and Seles' play on the court, but off the court? Pretty lame.
I'm not a fan of Bollettieri, but he's got way more integrity than those 2 players.

I somewhat suspect there is another side to this story, who knows what it may be. Perhaps that it didn't happen, or perhaps there was quid pro quo arrangement that was discussed and agreed to; or perhaps Seles and Agassi offered to pay but Bolletieri declined preferring instead to use their presence at the Academy to attract students. Who knows? This is scant evidence.

As for Agassi misbehaving, well... That's pretty indefenseable. But that was a long time ago. ..A bit too long to continue holding grudges. He came through our town for a WTT match this past summer and everyone of the volunteers who interacted with him said he was very easy going and accommodating.

GS
10-28-2009, 03:40 PM
was this in Nick's book? has Agassi or Seles ever refuted this publicly? curious because if it were true, then that would be bad on Seles/Agassi's part. But there are 2 sides to every story, maybe Andre will bring it up in his book. Nick (just guessing) basically stated he was not paid a dime by either player?? that would be bad, much worse than the drug experiment by Andre.

Yes, this was in Nick's book. Ah, but Agassi DID give him something over the years---a Chevy Corvette (hope it wasn't used) plus 2 steak sandwiches at Wimbledon. Don't believe me? Read the book. Agassi is no saint.

hifi heretic
10-28-2009, 04:02 PM
Yes, this was in Nick's book. Ah, but Agassi DID give him something over the years---a Chevy Corvette (hope it wasn't used) plus 2 steak sandwiches at Wimbledon. Don't believe me? Read the book. Agassi is no saint.

I would imagine that many of the kids who went to NB academy have very ambivalent feelings about the guy. On the one hand he indeed helped to shape and mold them into the elite world-class tennis machines they became, but on the other he was very much a co-conspirator in their selfish stage parents plot to rob them of their childhood and turn them into meal-tickets. For all we know, maybe Andre's point of view is that it was his Dad's decision to send him there (perhaps against his will) so if there is a debt that it is owed, it should be paid by his dad. ..This is just speculation on my part.

Who knows why there is tension b/w Andre and NB. ..Suffice to say that $200,000 to Andre is not a lot of money. ..If he didn't pay there is likely a reason and I'd like to know what what it is before considering this a blemish on his reputation.

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 04:08 PM
Yes, this was in Nick's book. Ah, but Agassi DID give him something over the years---a Chevy Corvette (hope it wasn't used) plus 2 steak sandwiches at Wimbledon. Don't believe me? Read the book. Agassi is no saint.

wow, did Nick explain why he had no "contract" with Agassi? why he supposedly allowed this??

Azzurri
10-28-2009, 04:12 PM
I would imagine that many of the kids who went to NB academy have very ambivalent feelings about the guy. On the one hand he indeed helped to shape and mold them into the elite world-class tennis machines they became, but on the other he was very much a co-conspirator in their selfish stage parents plot to rob them of their childhood and turn them into meal-tickets. For all we know, maybe Andre's point of view is that it was his Dad's decision to send him there (perhaps against his will) so if there is a debt that it is owed, it should be paid by his dad. ..This is just speculation on my part.

Who knows why there is tension b/w Andre and NB. ..Suffice to say that $200,000 to Andre is not a lot of money. ..If he didn't pay there is likely a reason and I'd like to know what what it is before considering this a blemish on his reputation.

agreed. that leads me to believe something is not right. why would Agassi do this? did Agassi say anything about this??

Alec78
10-28-2009, 04:24 PM
Indeed, if he never charged Agassi or Seles for coaching services rendered in the '80s and didn't think to enter into a contract with his star pupils, that's his fault.

I'm sure he earned plenty of tuition money in the '90s and beyond that he would not have earned had Seles and Agassi not won a few tournaments in their time.

Certainly enough to buy sunscreen. Again, his fault that he looks like a leather shoe.

hifi heretic
10-28-2009, 04:40 PM
I would imagine that many of the kids who went to NB academy have very ambivalent feelings about the guy. On the one hand he indeed helped to shape and mold them into the elite world-class tennis machines they became, but on the other he was very much a co-conspirator in their selfish stage parents plot to rob them of their childhood and turn them into meal-tickets. For all we know, maybe Andre's point of view is that it was his Dad's decision to send him there (perhaps against his will) so if there is a debt that it is owed, it should be paid by his dad. ..This is just speculation on my part.

Who knows why there is tension b/w Andre and NB. ..Suffice to say that $200,000 to Andre is not a lot of money. ..If he didn't pay there is likely a reason and I'd like to know what what it is before considering this a blemish on his reputation.

From wikipedia (a questionable source, I admit): At age 13, Andre was sent to Nick Bollettieri's Tennis Academy in Florida.[17] He was meant to stay for only eight weeks because that was all his father could afford. However, after ten minutes of watching Agassi rally, Bollettieri called Mike and said, "Take your check back. He's here for free".

It's also alleged that Andre didn't want to go and resented his father for leaving him there. ..If this is true, it is somewhat understandable that AA would not want to pay the guy.

TenS_Ace
10-28-2009, 04:46 PM
WOW...I just found out that AA is a human being! Most people have skeleton's in the closet! The biggest slease in tennis is Bollettieri, it might not be drug use, but it is absolute disregard to human relationships. I've read his book and was utterly disgusted by his CHOICE with regards to relationships and his "they owe me" attitude! FU Nick!

AndrewD
10-28-2009, 05:14 PM
Isn't the bigger issue (from a sporting perspective) that he lied to the ATP about the meth, not the actual meth use itself (since, for the most part, it's not a performance enhancer). But, what's done is done.

The issue here is not that Agassi used drugs but that he was so willing to lie about it because it suited him (just as it suits him to talk about it now - as a means of publicising his book in a very dead market) and to have someone else take the blame.

The drug use = incidental. The insight into his character = telling.

maddogz32
10-28-2009, 05:49 PM
don't listen to him. he is another clueless poster.

i was kinda jk, i knew he did drugs but i didnt know it was crystal meth

hifi heretic
10-28-2009, 05:50 PM
The issue here is not that Agassi used drugs but that he was so willing to lie about it because it suited him (just as it suits him to talk about it now - as a means of publicising his book in a very dead market) and to have someone else take the blame.

The drug use = incidental. The insight into his character = telling.

using meth, then blaming someone else for it is a pretty egregious mistake - no argument here. However, if a person is to be judged by ALL that they have done - including all the bad AND all the good - then I'd say that Andre is still a better man than most. He's admitting to it now (so what if it's in a book? ..Would you feel better if this was revealed in a People magazine interview) His commitment to improving the lives of underprivileged kids in Las Vegas goes a long way to making up for this in my opinion. ..He clearly saw that he made mistakes and at least made a commitment to atone. ...My god, when I think back on some of the stuff my drug-addled friends did in college, this really pales in comparison.

tlm
10-28-2009, 06:50 PM
Funny how there are so many perfect people on this site that have never done anything illegal. It is none of our business what andre did. So he did a little speed when he was younger, big f#cking deal!

What world did all you perfect people grow up in? How many people that grew up from the 70's on did not do some drug experimenting?

I know there are some , but not very many. It is none of you goody goodys fricking business what andre did or anyone else.All of this drug testing today is totally an invasion of our privacy.

Nobody is perfect, if someone gets carried away with alcohol or drugs it will more than likely screw their lives up.But that is their choice to make.Obviously to anyone with half a brain knows that andre did not get carried away with substance abuse or he wouldnt have had continued success.

So to all you judgmental do gooders find something else to worry about, like your own life. I have a phone # for you 1-800- get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

NamRanger
10-28-2009, 07:23 PM
Funny how there are so many perfect people on this site that have never done anything illegal. It is none of our business what andre did. So he did a little speed when he was younger, big f#cking deal!

What world did all you perfect people grow up in? How many people that grew up from the 70's on did not do some drug experimenting?

I know there are some , but not very many. It is none of you goody goodys fricking business what andre did or anyone else.All of this drug testing today is totally an invasion of our privacy.

Nobody is perfect, if someone gets carried away with alcohol or drugs it will more than likely screw their lives up.But that is their choice to make.Obviously to anyone with half a brain knows that andre did not get carried away with substance abuse or he wouldnt have had continued success.

So to all you judgmental do gooders find something else to worry about, like your own life. I have a phone # for you 1-800- get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!



No, Andre can do all the drugs in the world for all I care. What ticks me off is that if what Andre says is true, he got preferential treatment for being a star. That sets a precedence that marquee names can get away with using illegal substances quite easily if what Andre says is true. You could smoke mary j, do all the speed, etc. all you want for all I care.


However, cheating at a professional sport is not something that should be taken lightly. Obviously if Andre can get away with using speed, what's to say Nadal can't get away with a little EPO here and there.

PCXL-Fan
10-28-2009, 07:36 PM
What??!?!!? :oops::shock:
Chrystal meth?? Isnt that a heavy drug???

It can be used as a performance enhancement when digensted and not injected or inhaled. Militaries in ww2 dabbled in with meth for their troops, for increased energy and more fearlessness (aka increased moral). But like injecting... it will eventually destroy the body and mind from enough usage. Just takes more time.

kingdaddy41788
10-28-2009, 07:42 PM
Proof positive that the ATP has a double standard in the enforcement of their drug policy, a popular GS winner gets his positive test thrown out because it would hurt the ATP, just as much as it would hurt the player. Makes you wonder.

Not really fair if you actually read about the anti-doping policies, especially the policies then versus now...

TenS_Ace
10-28-2009, 07:52 PM
Funny how there are so many perfect people on this site that have never done anything illegal. It is none of our business what andre did. So he did a little speed when he was younger, big f#cking deal!

What world did all you perfect people grow up in? How many people that grew up from the 70's on did not do some drug experimenting?

I know there are some , but not very many. It is none of you goody goodys fricking business what andre did or anyone else.All of this drug testing today is totally an invasion of our privacy.

Nobody is perfect, if someone gets carried away with alcohol or drugs it will more than likely screw their lives up.But that is their choice to make.Obviously to anyone with half a brain knows that andre did not get carried away with substance abuse or he wouldnt have had continued success.

So to all you judgmental do gooders find something else to worry about, like your own life. I have a phone # for you 1-800- get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
x2 ...sumpthin about casting a stone:|

NamRanger
10-28-2009, 08:06 PM
Not really fair if you actually read about the anti-doping policies, especially the policies then versus now...



The policies are the same. Korda got banned for steroids during that period of time, yet Andre didn't under dubious circumstances for crystal meth.

120mphBodyServe
10-28-2009, 08:06 PM
Big woop dee doo about this.
A lot of tennis players down in the dumps have consumed illicit substances...
But I won't be buying this book unless it's on sale, since I think the timing is a bit sensationalistic and generating a lot of publicity for his autobiography...

shaysrebelII
10-28-2009, 09:11 PM
But it's not his taking the drug that's so shocking, not to me anyway. He never got hooked and, hell, some of us tried a weird drug or two in college and then never again, for good reason. But with Agassi, it's how he lied to the ATP about having taken the drug, pointing a finger at someone else for having supposedly spiked one of his drinks with it. That kind of thing goes to character, and while he's sorry for having written such a letter now, it makes me like him even less.

well put, I totally agree. the sad thing is, I prefer his lie to the alternative: his suspension and further fall from grace. '97 was a bad year for him, a suspension might've been the straw that broke the camel's back. If he got suspended, he might never have had the resurgence that he did, and thus might not have been able to make the charitable contributions that he has in his years in retirement.

I can't believe I'm saying this but...thanks for lying andre.

Annika
10-28-2009, 11:38 PM
Look, it's a 16x19 string pattern!

Only an avid tennis player would discuss the string pattern while looking at this Agassi photo! :???:

Annika
10-28-2009, 11:41 PM
I like his jacket.

THUNDERVOLLEY
10-29-2009, 01:45 AM
A. The ITF's drug testing system is easily fooled. It is in fact one of the weakest systems ever. This whole business about tennis having a strict testing system is total BULLCRAP made up so that people don't worry about steroids/doping.

B. There is precedence set in the past that shows the ATP/ITF will sweep things under the rug if they feel that it will damage the sport. Good examples are the recent Agassi meth incident, along with the infamous Rusedski case where it somehow got dismissed under bogus circumstances.

C. Nadal has been accused by a newspaper of being on the list of Doctor Fuentes, well known doping doctor. Not just that, Doctor Fuentes himself admits that he has helped tennis players, soccer players, etc. and not just cyclists.

D. The list has never been released as it is being held up in court by Spanish authorities. Hrm, I WONDER WHY? The only thing the Spanish authorities have said on the matter is that "don't worry we are telling the truth *wink* ".

E. As Drakulie stated, Nadal's Wimbledon withdrawal was dubious and can be considered suspicious.




These all tie together and there's an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest that many top players in fact have the opportunity to dope, and that it is absurdly easy to get away with it. Even if they do, they can just say "Dude, it was an accident" and get away with it, like Agassi did.

....then you are (for all purposes) throwing your collective hands up, and calling it a day. Unless an official outside body can force Spanish authorities, the ATP & ITF to cough up all relevent information on Nadal (assuming the alleged information has not been destroyed at every source), then all one has is suspicion. More substantial smoking guns are required.

OP: Agassi seems to be continuing on his path of image-shaping and damage control. While Sampras was consistent in making his own history, Agassi repeatedly ****ed away his career (which the protective ATP, and certain ex-players never commented on) until his 11th hour salvage job, which makes his number of slams earned over a pockmarked period of time far less impressive than that of the career of Sampras, or even others of his generation with not as many, such as Courier (or the slightly older generation of Becker & Edberg).

That said, this appears to be damage control; at any time, a former celebrity's stab at a bio can be beaten to the punch by other publishers around the world with as much information on the former star as the star himself--including damaging information. Since Agassi's drug abuses was not the Riddle of the Ages, he (Agassi) likely realized others were preparing tell-all bios, thus to appear like a humble, repentant little ex-celebrity, he now tries to reduce the shame by revealing the drug abuses before others can. Will this prevent other tell-all books from surfacing? Who knows, but the books (if they exist and are on the schedule for a run) are likely waiting on Agassi's, and what it may reveal..or supress.

Agassi scores no points with this move.

8pNADAL
10-29-2009, 02:32 AM
agassi scores full points, just like a born again christian is praised for seeing the light and turning around their life, agassi has done the same ever since his rebelious years, it all began in 1998 (or late 1997 when he started playing challenger events) and now that is even more clear

velkov
10-29-2009, 02:49 AM
You can condemn Agassi all you want for the crystal meth - and he'd deserve it - but remember, Agassi dropped the habit soon after. Then, in 1998, he made the biggest one-year jump into the Top 10 in the history of the ATP rankings, going from his year-end 122 to number six. He'd win five of his eight major titles after finding the bottom. They call Agassi the greatest returner in history. They aren't kidding... This book is about more than the wrong turns he took. It's about how that broken road led him straight to the good man he is now.

8pNADAL
10-29-2009, 03:01 AM
im not even sure id call his taking of meth a 'habit', i mean if took it more than once then the regular atp drug testing would have shown it, and agassis story of his drink being spiked wouldnt have worked if he tested positive more than once, so it would seem to be a 'one off'

hifi heretic
10-29-2009, 04:02 AM
THUNDERVOLLEY: "Agassi seems to be continuing on his path of image-shaping and damage control. While Sampras was consistent in making his own history, Agassi repeatedly ****ed away his career (which the protective ATP, and certain ex-players never commented on) until his 11th hour salvage job, which makes his number of slams earned over a pockmarked period of time far less impressive than that of the career of Sampras, or even others of his generation with not as many, such as Courier (or the slightly older generation of Becker & Edberg).

That said, this appears to be damage control; at any time, a former celebrity's stab at a bio can be beaten to the punch by other publishers around the world with as much information on the former star as the star himself--including damaging information. Since Agassi's drug abuses was not the Riddle of the Ages, he (Agassi) likely realized others were preparing tell-all bios, thus to appear like a humble, repentant little ex-celebrity, he now tries to reduce the shame by revealing the drug abuses before others can. Will this prevent other tell-all books from surfacing? Who knows, but the books (if they exist and are on the schedule for a run) are likely waiting on Agassi's, and what it may reveal..or supress.

Agassi scores no points with this move."

..Wow, you couldn't be more sanctimonious. So what if didn't manage his playing career as perfectly as Pete. ...In the years that followed, however, one could hardly do better than what Andre has done. You may call it image-building but I think that is very simplistic and overlooks the hundreds of lives that he has positively affected. ..In the long run this matters so much more than whether or not Andre might have made more of his talent, or whether he tried drugs during a low point in his life.

sureshs
10-29-2009, 04:27 AM
Now the speculation is that he did not use meth when he was in a "slump" as some posters here are defending, but rather his frequent use of meth contributed to the slump. Now it looks a lot different, eh?

Another fact that is emerging is that his father is a violent man and a control freak. Mike Agassi was not the model "poor and hardworking" immigrant that he was made about to be, who raised his family on hotel tips. More like an uneducated jerk who got his son to make him rich.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-29-2009, 04:40 AM
I also think you are not a true Swede. probably from another country living in Sweden. never met/knew a Swede as ignorant (know-nothing) as you, every Swede I have ever known were truly wonderful people.
Seriously, what is wrong with you? :?
I am born in Sweden to Swedish parents and have lived here all my life.
And as ive said before, i know a lot more about tennis than you do.

hifi heretic
10-29-2009, 04:51 AM
Another fact that is emerging is that his father is a violent man and a control freak. Mike Agassi was not the model "poor and hardworking" immigrant that he was made about to be, who raised his family on hotel tips. More like an uneducated jerk who got his son to make him rich.

okay.. so if you believe this is at least partially true then why the the complete and utter lack of respect for what Andre has done with his life since shaking himself free of his fathers clutches? ..And please don't go back to your comments about his "timing" with respect to the book.

Gorecki
10-29-2009, 04:53 AM
..Wow, you couldn't be more sanctimonious. So what if didn't manage his playing career as perfectly as Pete. ...In the years that followed, however, one could hardly do better than what Andre has done. You may call it image-building but I think that is very simplistic and overlooks the hundreds of lives that he has positively affected. ..In the long run this matters so much more than whether or not Andre might have made more of his talent, or whether he tried drugs during a low point in his life.

absolutely agree with this and i must add as a personal view that his "coming out" for such a questionable issue only strenghtens my idea that Agassi is the perfect parabola for life.

Cesc Fabregas
10-29-2009, 04:58 AM
absolutely agree with this and i must add as a personal view that his "coming out" for such a questionable issue only strenghtens my idea that Agassi is the perfect parabola for life.

Or maybe Agassi is coming out with this because it helps sell his book...

drakulie
10-29-2009, 04:58 AM
Provide some proof--even reports based on reasonable suspicion--anything which calls official statements into question.

I already have.

1. Nadal and his doctors, after his loss at the French stated he was injured, as early as 20 some odd matches prior, including two meaningless exos.

2. Nadal and his doctors stated they did not know what his injury was and/or the extent, yet,,,,,, he played 20 some odd matches including two meaningless exos.

3. The day after his second consecutive exo, he withdraws from Wimbledon as defending champion, citing "inijury" (unknown), and will not play at less than 100%. Only two players have failed to defend their title. Smith in 1972 who withdrew along with 70+ other top ATP pros in protest, and Goran, who had retired. To add, how many thousands of pros have played Wimbledon with injury and or less than 100%?? Hmmmm, and this is supposed to be one of the greatest fighter of our time.

4. Nadal and his doctors stated, at the time of his withdrawal he needed at least 3 weeks rest to "recover, diagnose, and treat". Yet, a few days later he is on a practice court preparing for a Davis Cup Match (while Wimbledon is underway).

5. He comes back from a "serious knee injury", which he has no diagnosis for, and not only plays singles, but doubles on the hardest surface on the joints (hard courts), and claims he is not 100%. :roll: >>> he had already stated he wouldn't play at less than 100% at the most prestigious event in our sport, yet played the entire hard court season, according to him, at "less than 100%"


I conclude the following:

1. He wasn't injured as evidenced by his actions, and rather, was serving a ban.

2. I'll take my own conclusions based on these factual circumstances, and the word of people I personally know, over YOU.

3. The ATP has already proven they will sweep things under the rug for certain high-level players to protect their own interests, os it is not out of the realm,,,, they will do the same for, Nadal.

Gorecki
10-29-2009, 05:04 AM
Or maybe Agassi is coming out with this because it helps sell his book...

or you are an idiot and you do not understand that Agassi does not need more money from book sales since he is a millionaire married to another millionaire?

your point?

THUNDERVOLLEY
10-29-2009, 05:49 AM
So what if didn't manage his playing career as perfectly as Pete.

He screwed and doped away prime years, while others in his generation moved forward as they should have until (for whatever reasons) they could not continue. That is the job, and Sampras or Courier did not need "second acts" in an attempt to rescue a career and image from perceptions of "what if" or "what could have been."

You may call it image-building but I think that is very simplistic and overlooks the hundreds of lives that he has positively affected.

...and you think any of this cannot be the result of trying to create a personal legacy/save face--particularly in the wake of years of flushing it down the toilet? This is nothing new for ex-celebrities with a fragile ego, and those attempting to prevent others from revealing dirty secrets (which in the hands of others, would make the subject appear to be a liar or fraud built on false images).

NamRanger
10-29-2009, 05:52 AM
....then you are (for all purposes) throwing your collective hands up, and calling it a day. Unless an official outside body can force Spanish authorities, the ATP & ITF to cough up all relevent information on Nadal (assuming the alleged information has not been destroyed at every source), then all one has is suspicion. More substantial smoking guns are required.




No, I'm just awaiting the day Nadal gets busted.

THUNDERVOLLEY
10-29-2009, 05:56 AM
No, I'm just awaiting the day Nadal gets busted.

Considering how Agassi rolled in the mud of corruption like some drug-addled pig without so much as a suspicious shot fired from critics, i'm thinking Nadal will be able to end his career without an offical investigation exposing him (and associated parties).

...but it would be fascinating if the charges turned out to be true.

Alec78
10-29-2009, 05:59 AM
Big woop dee doo about this.
A lot of tennis players down in the dumps have consumed illicit substances...
But I won't be buying this book unless it's on sale, since I think the timing is a bit sensationalistic and generating a lot of publicity for his autobiography...

I'll take your first point one step further. I am positive that the vast majority of us - meaning humans, not just tennis players - have taken drugs as an escape or to relieve stress. Drugs include alcohol and nicotine, by the way. Whether the substance is legal or illegal is incidental.

I wouldn't buy an athlete's bio, but I'll borrow Agassi's from the library. I've always liked him and am interested in his story.

NamRanger
10-29-2009, 06:01 AM
Considering how Agassi rolled in the mud of corruption like some drug-addled pig without so much as a suspicious shot fired from critics, i'm thinking Nadal will be able to end his career without an offical investigation exposing him (and associated parties).

...but it would be fascinating if the charges turned out to be true.


Agassi was a flamboyant public figure that was loved. Even Nadal, who is extremely popular, doesn't even come close to the level of star power that Agassi has. I'm not even sure Federer is even with Agassi in terms of popularity. That's how popular Agassi was, and that's probably why it was important to keep this whole meth thing (if what he says is true, which is plausible) away from the public.

hifi heretic
10-29-2009, 06:15 AM
He screwed and doped away prime years, while others in his generation moved forward as they should have until (for whatever reasons) they could not continue. That is the job, and Sampras or Courier did not need "second acts" in an attempt to rescue a career and image from perceptions of "what if" or "what could have been."

...and you think any of this cannot be the result of trying to create a personal legacy/save face--particularly in the wake of years of flushing it down the toilet? This is nothing new for ex-celebrities with a fragile ego, and those attempting to prevent others from revealing dirty secrets (which in the hands of others, would make the subject appear to be a liar or fraud built on false images).

Wow, what a miserable judgmental nit you are. ..What business is of yours if his career was less than it might have been? Of the many millions of people who play tennis, Agassi has achieved more than ALL but maybe a dozen or so other people and yet you seem to think he's a failure. What the hell is wrong with you??

Would have respected him more if instead of working to open a tuition-free charter school for at-risk children in Vegas he instead focused his efforts at winning a few more stupid tennis tournaments?

As for his brush with drugs, I repeat what I said yesterday: Did anyone really think there was nothing like this in his past?? How many people who have lived a life like his have avoided this?

- The son of an over ambitious stage parent father who traded away his kids youth and right to pick his own pursuits for vicarious fame
- The kid over achieves and earns millions of dollars at an age when most kids have to save for a few weeks to buy a cd.
- More praise and attention is piled on him then any human should receive in a lifetime
- As a teenager his is offered a fat sponsorship contract with Canon which - encapsulating all that is ill with fame - is called "Image is Everything"

honestly, I'm surprised his life didn't end with him bending a Porsche around a tree or a total spiral into drug abuse. The list of others who have met this demise is nearly endless.

THUNDERVOLLEY
10-29-2009, 06:34 AM
Wow, what a miserable judgmental nit you are.

...said the hypocritical, atrophied mind who just made a judgement.

Not too smooth, defensive fan.


What business is of yours if his career was less than it might have been?

What busuness do you have defending his career? Nice how this line of questioning works both ways, little one.



Of the many millions of people who play tennis, Agassi has achieved more than ALL but maybe a dozen or so other people and yet you seem to think he's a failure.

Millions are not among the active pros now, or when he played, so the goals of fans/recreational players (the only group you could be referring to) is a poor, irrelevant example.

So, you would have respected him more if instead of working to open a tuition-free charter school for at-risk children in Vegas he instead focused his efforts at winning a few more stupid tennis tournaments.

Typical of an obsessed fan, you are focusing on his school--which has nothing to do with the direct issues of his drug abuses while a pro, and covering it up. THAT is the issue, and saving face (possible before anyone else could expose him) and building a legacy are the likely overall motives for revealing it at this point in time. If you cannot understand that, or read between the lines...then whatever, but your fan-rant is not exactly convincing.

Gorecki
10-29-2009, 06:42 AM
i see pompous judgmental cretins!

http://allaboutadvocacy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/movie_i_see_dead_people.jpg

Alec78
10-29-2009, 06:52 AM
Or maybe Agassi is coming out with this because it helps sell his book...

Of course, that's the idea behind "writing" a book if you're an entertainer. It's a commercial endeavor first and foremost, not an artistic one. And in that spirit, it's only wise to release a teaser that will surprise the buying public and leave them wanting more.

Slazenger07
10-29-2009, 07:01 AM
What??!?!!? :oops::shock:
Chrystal meth?? Isnt that a heavy drug???

Heavy? Meth? Uh, yea its only one of the most addicitive drugs out there second probably only to heroin. Had a buddy that used to be hooked on that stuff. He was a totally different person on it, almost ruined his life.

Slazenger07
10-29-2009, 07:07 AM
And we'll still think he was awesome.

For good reason, he was...

Azzurri
10-29-2009, 07:15 AM
Seriously, what is wrong with you? :?
I am born in Sweden to Swedish parents and have lived here all my life.
And as ive said before, i know a lot more about tennis than you do.

then you are the first and only Swede I have ever met that is this ignorant. congratulations.

Tyrus
10-29-2009, 07:19 AM
For good reason, he was...

I actually have more respect for Agassi for owning up to this, the results could have been catastrophic, but he emerged a better player, better person, and is not afraid to own up to the mistakes he made in hopes that we can learn from that. That's respect right there.

But i do have to say between ESPN and SI they are doing a fantastic job of unraveling the publicity and controversy making us really want to buy this book!

THUNDERVOLLEY
10-29-2009, 07:23 AM
i see pompous judgmental cretins!

http://allaboutadvocacy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/movie_i_see_dead_people.jpg


I see hypocrites doing the very thing they accuse others of.

Amusing.

hifi heretic
10-29-2009, 07:29 AM
.
Typical of an obsessed fan, you are focusing on his school--which has nothing to do with the direct issues of his drug abuses while a pro, and covering it up. THAT is the issue, and saving face (possible before anyone else could expose him) and building a legacy are the likely overall motives for revealing it at this point in time. If you cannot understand that, or read between the lines...then whatever, but your fan-rant is not exactly convincing.

..I'm not an obsessed fan of ANY celebrity, least of all a pro athlete. God forbid. What I am, however, is someone who detests people who are judgmental and intolerant. ..Which is precisely how you, and sureshs, comes across. I wonder how your life would hold up to such scrutiny?

Cesc Fabregas
10-29-2009, 07:48 AM
I see hypocrites doing the very thing they accuse others of.

Amusing.

Thats Gorecki, the biggest hypocrite on here, the guy walks into threads insulting anyone with a different opinion to himself.

sureshs
10-29-2009, 07:56 AM
Absence of evidence? Uh, no.


The Doctor Fuentes list that the Spanish Government refuses to release is actually a big pivotal piece of evidence. If Nadal's name happens to be on the list, he's pretty lucky that the Spanish Government also happens to be tying it up in court so the public / other anti-doping authorities don't get to see it.



Nadal's name is reportedly on that list because there are suspicions. Period. If the list cannot be released, he will remain in suspicion. The evidence presented against Nadal shows that it would be very easy to dope and get away with it, and if caught, he could easily make up some excuse and still get away freely. No hard evidence links Nadal to doping, but there is a ton of circumstantial evidence that is building up against him.



You can defend Nadal till the hills come home, but there is a ton of facts that put him in an unfavorable light.


A. Nadal is known for his unbreakable stamina

B. Nadal's home country had a huge scandal with Doctor Fuentes, who allegedly (and admitted to it) helped tennis players, cyclists, and soccer players gain an unfair advantage over other competitors.

C. Doctor Fuentes' list is tied up in court for who knows how long. We probably won't know who all 200 athletes are until 30 years by now.

D. The ITF's testing policy and repeated attempts to sweep things under the rug both show that it would be incredibly easy for a marquee player to dope, get away with, and avoid punishment should he be caught.

E. Recent actions by Nadal prove to be extremely contradictory of his usual attitude, which is to no matter what, play every tournament he possibly can. The man played Rotterdam injured for crying out loud. You think he can't buckle those knees up and take a little tendinitis for playing the world's most PRESTIGIOUS TOURNAMENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT. Really?




I mean, this is like there's a dead body next to you, a gun near you, blood stains on you, and you saying you didn't do it. How much more evidence do you want?

The US government and Swiss banks have compiled a list of tax evaders and kept in a shroud of secrecy because it involves big names and banks like UBS. This has been going on for years but the list is new. Therefore, Bill Gates <or insert your famous rich guy name> has stashed his money there. Case closed.

It has been explained over and over again that there are perfectly valid reasons for Nadal not playing Wimbledon. It is really difficult to delve into them again, so you need to find them yourself. Remember that people don't think the way you suppose them to. You cannot make up you own reasons to explain other's behavior as it only reveals the limits of your experience. You can never understand another person's motivations. It may be as simple as a nagging pain which is a huge issue when you are facing a pro, or a more complicated mixture of previous defeats, injury and family issues.

Do you realize that hate has made you incapable of rational thinking? I have an advice for you: kindly don't sit in any jury because you are mentally incapable of logical thought. I first thought you were arguing just to poke people here, but now it looks like you are really convinced. I wonder what you get out of this though? Does it make you feel superior in some way to Nadal or makes you believe that Federer would never have been defeated by Nadal if he had been caught? Because neither of them give a rat's *** about you.

THUNDERVOLLEY
10-29-2009, 08:17 AM
..I'm not an obsessed fan of ANY celebrity

Your defensive behavior and need to resort to ad hominem comments suggests the opposite.

I wonder how your life would hold up to such scrutiny?

Pointless.

If he (Agassi) did not want additional scrutiny, logic dicates he would not have thought it a good move to reveal his drug abuse. Obviously, other motives washed away the very concern of scrutiny you offer now. Not too convincing.

jimbo333
10-29-2009, 08:22 AM
Only an avid tennis player would discuss the string pattern while looking at this Agassi photo! :???:

Yep, that's me:)

Nobody has yet explained if he usually used this 16x19 string pattern on his Donnay Pro One's?

rafan
10-29-2009, 08:36 AM
So what do we conclude from his statement? Primarily it is not so much about the fact that he used drugs to get to where he was but when he had played so much that he was getting fed up with the game and had to "perform" one more time. I wonder sometimes if this is a situation we are seeing in our top two. Not that they would take drugs but the fact that they too may be getting fed up of "performing just one more time" It is a sad state of affairs for Agissi to have to admit but in a way understandable. Tennis may be an incredible game but for the players the repetition must wear them down sometimes

random1
10-29-2009, 08:43 AM
What a hottie he was back then... Then he lost his hair. Must have been the meth :shock:


Sort of...
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/agassi-sold-hair-to-buy-drugs-200910292180/

:)

Rabbit
10-29-2009, 08:52 AM
The US government and Swiss banks have compiled a list of tax evaders and kept in a shroud of secrecy because it involves big names and banks like UBS. This has been going on for years but the list is new. Therefore, Bill Gates <or insert your famous rich guy name> has stashed his money there. Case closed.

It has been explained over and over again that there are perfectly valid reasons for Nadal not playing Wimbledon. It is really difficult to delve into them again, so you need to find them yourself. Remember that people don't think the way you suppose them to. You cannot make up you own reasons to explain other's behavior as it only reveals the limits of your experience. You can never understand another person's motivations. It may be as simple as a nagging pain which is a huge issue when you are facing a pro, or a more complicated mixture of previous defeats, injury and family issues.

Do you realize that hate has made you incapable of rational thinking? I have an advice for you: kindly don't sit in any jury because you are mentally incapable of logical thought. I first thought you were arguing just to poke people here, but now it looks like you are really convinced. I wonder what you get out of this though? Does it make you feel superior in some way to Nadal or makes you believe that Federer would never have been defeated by Nadal if he had been caught? Because neither of them give a rat's *** about you.

Wow, hate? That's quite a leap. I think you just violated the "logic" in the rest of your post. How can you ascribe hate to him? Do you know him? Have you seen him? Talked to him? That's quite a deduction from the limited exposure you've had....

Incapable of logical thought? Shouldn't you have hard evidence to the contrary before pronouncing him incapable? Certainly you then are as guilty as you say he is of jumping to conclusions, you're just in the other direction. But since it's you, we should all believe? Hardly.

And, just because you've never seen something or touched it, does that make it non-existant? Do you not believe in the preponderance of evidence? If you saw a column of smoke in the distance, you would not suspect fire until it burned you?

Evidence:

In the history of Open tennis, there have been two (2) Wimbledon champions who did not defend, Stan Smith & Rafael Nadal.
Smith joined an ATP boycott of Wimbledon in 1973 to protest the treatment/suspension of a fellow player, Niki Pilic.
Nadal said he was unfit to play, and yet he played two warmup events on grass and
Nadal competed in the French Open sans tape on his knees and
Nadal left the tour 6/25/09 to return 8/10/2009 self-admittedly 100%. He practiced during his off period....Darren Cahill had the same injury Nadal reportedly had and it ended Cahill's career yet Nadal not only "recovers" that quickly, but also practices?
Since rejoining the tour, Nadal has made QF, SF, SF, SF, F with no tournament wins. Apparently he can't take a bite out of a trophy without some juice to go along with it....
Andre Agassi, a superstar of Nadal's stature, tested positive for a banned substance and was given a hall pass based on a note he submitted on a legal pad....the incident was NEVER reported or disclosed....
Lesser stars, Mariano Puerta, Guillermo Canas, & Richard Gasquet all banned for similar offenses
Puerta banned for 8 years - the longest in tennis history
Canas banned for 2 years and had to forfeit $276,000 in prize money (later restored but only after litigation and protest)
Gasquet banned for 1 month only restored after protest and support from none other than Nadal
Andre Agassi tests postive and hand writes a note on a legal pad and mails it....I don't know, but it seems to me there's plenty of evidence of the top players getting a hall pass...

And if there's enough smoke, then there's bound to be fire.

Chadwixx
10-29-2009, 08:58 AM
Then, in 1998, he made the biggest one-year jump into the Top 10 in the history of the ATP rankings, going from his year-end 122 to number six.

If you dont think someone who takes one of the hardest drugs on earth wouldnt do steroids your lying to yourself. It was the beginning of the steroid era, he was about to hit 30 and he got alot stronger and better. Pretty obvious if you ask me.

Anyone remember rios calling agassi out to take an on the spot drug test in south america and agassi ran saying his kid just got kidnapped?

sureshs
10-29-2009, 09:12 AM
Wow, hate? That's quite a leap. I think you just violated the "logic" in the rest of your post. How can you ascribe hate to him? Do you know him? Have you seen him? Talked to him? That's quite a deduction from the limited exposure you've had....

Incapable of logical thought? Shouldn't you have hard evidence to the contrary before pronouncing him incapable? Certainly you then are as guilty as you say he is of jumping to conclusions, you're just in the other direction. But since it's you, we should all believe? Hardly.

And, just because you've never seen something or touched it, does that make it non-existant? Do you not believe in the preponderance of evidence? If you saw a column of smoke in the distance, you would not suspect fire until it burned you?

Evidence:

In the history of Open tennis, there have been two (2) Wimbledon champions who did not defend, Stan Smith & Rafael Nadal.
Smith joined an ATP boycott of Wimbledon in 1973 to protest the treatment/suspension of a fellow player, Niki Pilic.
Nadal said he was unfit to play, and yet he played two warmup events on grass and
Nadal competed in the French Open sans tape on his knees and
Nadal left the tour 6/25/09 to return 8/10/2009 self-admittedly 100%. He practiced during his off period....Darren Cahill had the same injury Nadal reportedly had and it ended Cahill's career yet Nadal not only "recovers" that quickly, but also practices?
Since rejoining the tour, Nadal has made QF, SF, SF, SF, F with no tournament wins. Apparently he can't take a bite out of a trophy without some juice to go along with it....
Andre Agassi, a superstar of Nadal's stature, tested positive for a banned substance and was given a hall pass based on a note he submitted on a legal pad....the incident was NEVER reported or disclosed....
Lesser stars, Mariano Puerta, Guillermo Canas, & Richard Gasquet all banned for similar offenses
Puerta banned for 8 years - the longest in tennis history
Canas banned for 2 years and had to forfeit $276,000 in prize money (later restored but only after litigation and protest)
Gasquet banned for 1 month only restored after protest and support from none other than Nadal
Andre Agassi tests postive and hand writes a note on a legal pad and mails it....I don't know, but it seems to me there's plenty of evidence of the top players getting a hall pass...

And if there's enough smoke, then there's bound to be fire.

So now Nadal not winning is also a proof?

Frankly, don't even bother any more please. I am normally not harsh on people, but I have to say this: you are a misguided and hating ignorant fool.

Sorry, but someone had to say this. You need to look deep into yourself and ask if that is not true. Don't feel bad, it is not personal, but what has happened is that outfits like Fox News who create an alternate hate universe with lots of money are bound to affect society in the long run. The idea that ignorance and hate can be elevated to virtues by repetition is not new, but the scale at which it is being deployed is concerning these days. It has given rise to mindsets such as yours and it is quite sad.

rafan
10-29-2009, 09:34 AM
I already have.

1. Nadal and his doctors, after his loss at the French stated he was injured, as early as 20 some odd matches prior, including two meaningless exos.

2. Nadal and his doctors stated they did not know what his injury was and/or the extent, yet,,,,,, he played 20 some odd matches including two meaningless exos.

3. The day after his second consecutive exo, he withdraws from Wimbledon as defending champion, citing "inijury" (unknown), and will not play at less than 100%. Only two players have failed to defend their title. Smith in 1972 who withdrew along with 70+ other top ATP pros in protest, and Goran, who had retired. To add, how many thousands of pros have played Wimbledon with injury and or less than 100%?? Hmmmm, and this is supposed to be one of the greatest fighter of our time.

4. Nadal and his doctors stated, at the time of his withdrawal he needed at least 3 weeks rest to "recover, diagnose, and treat". Yet, a few days later he is on a practice court preparing for a Davis Cup Match (while Wimbledon is underway).

5. He comes back from a "serious knee injury", which he has no diagnosis for, and not only plays singles, but doubles on the hardest surface on the joints (hard courts), and claims he is not 100%. :roll: >>> he had already stated he wouldn't play at less than 100% at the most prestigious event in our sport, yet played the entire hard court season, according to him, at "less than 100%"


I conclude the following:

1. He wasn't injured as evidenced by his actions, and rather, was serving a ban.

2. I'll take my own conclusions based on these factual circumstances, and the word of people I personally know, over YOU.

3. The ATP has already proven they will sweep things under the rug for certain high-level players to protect their own interests, os it is not out of the realm,,,, they will do the same for, Nadal.

What a load of fairytale tosh. If you are daft enough to think that Nadal, after all he has fought for and been through to get where he is would risk been tested positive for any drug then you are seriously misguided. So from your conclusion we must all be extra vigilant when they are playing to look for "symptoms" - must not sweat too much, must not look too much like a healthy athlete, god help him if he comes back and wins the lot next year after a well earned rest.

ohplease
10-29-2009, 09:44 AM
Evidence:
In the history of Open tennis, there have been two (2) Wimbledon champions who did not defend, Stan Smith & Rafael Nadal

To nitpick - reading this immediately made me go see if Goran defended his Wimbledon - he didn't.

ksbh
10-29-2009, 09:46 AM
I don't know & don't care if Agassi used drugs. He was a professional par excellence when he was on. Despite coming up against the most offensive player in the history of the sport (Sampras), he brought all he had to court. Didn't hold anything back

Contrast that attitude to Andy Roddick, the current torch-bearer of American tennis, who's content to walk away with the runners-up trophy the moment he realizes it's Federer he has to play! Sad!

As for those dimwits that are pulling their hair out trying to portray Nadal as a drug user, good for them because it'll save them a visit to the barber ... and also because it's thoroughly amusing seeing their desperation! LOL!

Power Player
10-29-2009, 09:46 AM
I'm still looking for any logical reason that Agassi should be criticized for building and running a school that helps inner city kids get into college. If the only reason is that it is self serving, then I only wish that everybody was this selfish.

jwbarrientos
10-29-2009, 09:52 AM
It is not proved that Rafa /smoke/drink/kissed/touched or whatever ...

If Andre adminited, then must be punished... no discusion, as was said, many players not named Andre Agassi were banned.

What is the deal? ok, if you were a #1, everything is ok?

ATP must state sth about this.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-29-2009, 10:11 AM
then you are the first and only Swede I have ever met that is this ignorant. congratulations.
How does writing that "Agassi was lost in 1997 and probably unhappy with Brooke Shields" make me ignorant??
Am I missing something?
And why are you writing that all i ever did was see Agassi on youtube? Ive even seen him live, i mean, where do you come up with all your BS?

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-29-2009, 10:13 AM
Thats Gorecki, the biggest hypocrite on here, the guy walks into threads insulting anyone with a different opinion to himself.
Thats...actually very true...unfortunately.
I dont get it sometimes
:-?

Azzurri
10-29-2009, 10:15 AM
What a load of fairytale tosh. If you are daft enough to think that Nadal, after all he has fought for and been through to get where he is would risk been tested positive for any drug then you are seriously misguided. So from your conclusion we must all be extra vigilant when they are playing to look for "symptoms" - must not sweat too much, must not look too much like a healthy athlete, god help him if he comes back and wins the lot next year after a well earned rest.

this statement made me think of Rafael Palmeiro. This guy pointed a finger at CONGRESS and told them he never had and never would take roids...lo and behold we come to find out he did. If anything, the Rafael situation is much worse because he told his GOVERNMENT in front of MILLIONS that he never took roids. He stood to lose his livelyhood and the HALL OF FAME. I guess that was not enough to NOT take roids and you expect anyone to think Nadal would not have reason??? You are very gullable.

Our boy Palmiero: do you still believe him?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAxo4pCITRM



I think Nadal may have seen this clip and decided to get off the juice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tddtic9-jqU&feature=PlayList&p=31B53AFB6BAC884D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=6

or maybe this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmu_h8HCiGo&feature=PlayList&p=31B53AFB6BAC884D&index=9

Rabbit
10-29-2009, 10:35 AM
So now Nadal not winning is also a proof?

12 bullet points and you pick one......way to go.....nice rebuttal


Frankly, don't even bother any more please. I am normally not harsh on people, but I have to say this: you are a misguided and hating ignorant fool.

Oh the daggers.....wow, another stretch from such a limited mind.....


Sorry, but someone had to say this. You need to look deep into yourself and ask if that is not true. Don't feel bad, it is not personal, but what has happened is that outfits like Fox News who create an alternate hate universe with lots of money are bound to affect society in the long run. The idea that ignorance and hate can be elevated to virtues by repetition is not new, but the scale at which it is being deployed is concerning these days. It has given rise to mindsets such as yours and it is quite sad.

I think I might cry.....a little self-absorbed or convince of your own self-importance? Nothing you can say would ever make me feel bad...in fact, the only thing that you could do to make me question myself is agree with me.

What a tool you are.....

To nitpick - reading this immediately made me go see if Goran defended his Wimbledon - he didn't.

You are correct, I stand corrected.

Goran, I believe, was recovering from shoulder surgery during that Wimbledon and did not play any warmups or practice.

sureshs
10-29-2009, 11:33 AM
Nadal-"Asked about the surprise statements Andre Agassi, in which the U.S. admitted having used drugs. "I think is fatal," said Nadal, who said he did not understand "why say that now because he is retired, is a way of hurting the sport without any sense. If at the time the ATP covered the topic of Agassi and yes I passed other seems a lack of respect for all sports and from my point of view I want, I believe and hope that none of this is happening now. I think we have a clean sport and I am one who it want it to be, though I disagree with forms. The cheaters must be punished and if Agassi was a cheater in his day should have been punished, "

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-29-2009, 11:36 AM
Nadal-"Asked about the surprise statements Andre Agassi, in which the U.S. admitted having used drugs. "I think is fatal," said Nadal, who said he did not understand "why say that now because he is retired, is a way of hurting the sport without any sense. If at the time the ATP covered the topic of Agassi and yes I passed other seems a lack of respect for all sports and from my point of view I want, I believe and hope that none of this is happening now. I think we have a clean sport and I am one who it want it to be, though I disagree with forms. The cheaters must be punished and if Agassi was a cheater in his day should have been punished, "

Nadal needs to stfu, he is a hypocrite, cry-baby, buttpicker and time-delayer. He is nowhere near being considered "clean" .

Gorecki
10-29-2009, 11:37 AM
Thats Gorecki, the biggest hypocrite on here, the guy walks into threads insulting anyone with a different opinion to himself.

is that so' please tell this forum how is it that you provoked me with no reason whatsoever by quoting my post out of the context and i'm the one who randomly enters threads to "insult" people.

in this particular case one where dozens of momos like you are insulting what could be the greatest start of this sport all time because he did wrong a few times in his life...

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-29-2009, 11:39 AM
in this particular case one where dozens of momos like you are insulting what could be the greatest start of this sport all time because he did wrong a few times in his life...Agree with this- it works both ways.

Gorecki
10-29-2009, 11:42 AM
Thats...actually very true...unfortunately.
I dont get it sometimes
:-?

Agree with this- it works both ways.

i see...

so it all boils down to what you, me and Cescblabberalot prefer... :evil:

glad we got this straight!:twisted: