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babbette
10-29-2009, 11:24 AM
Nadal-"Asked about the surprise statements Andre Agassi, in which the U.S. admitted having used drugs. "I think is fatal," said Nadal, who said he did not understand "why say that now because he is retired, is a way of hurting the sport without any sense. If at the time the ATP covered the topic of Agassi and yes I passed other seems a lack of respect for all sports and from my point of view I want, I believe and hope that none of this is happening now. I think we have a clean sport and I am one who it want it to be, though I disagree with forms. The cheaters must be punished and if Agassi was a cheater in his day should have been punished, "

Federer-Agassi's drug message is also for Federer, "were a shock ':" I am disappointed that something like this has happened. I hope that the outing was good for Agassi. That was better than keeping everything to himself"

Roger takes Agassi but also in protection. He has done incredible things in his career, as a player and as a person. With his Foundation, he has generated over 100 million U.S. dollars. "This is at the forefront," said Federer.

The tennis players are rigorously tested, according to Federer on doping - twenty to thirty times a year. Tests for spontaneous, the tennis player must have one hours a day available. "In the future it will not happen anything. "The sport is to remain healthy," said Federer. (nw)
.............................................

With the language barrier I guess Federer is closer to Agassi and is able to offer Agassi the sympathy or whatever he was looking for by revealing this.


But to be honest, who cares! He should've kept it to himself! What will he reveal next to shock when everybody has forgotten him...that he once had a male relationship with a player? 8)

dwhiteside
10-29-2009, 11:27 AM
We don't know whether or not he just used it one time or multiple times. It obviously didn't affect him positively in tennis and I'm sure he didn't smoke meth right before his tennis matches since in 97 he was not even in the top 100. From what it said in the excerpt he maybe just did it once? Who knows.

sureshs
10-29-2009, 11:32 AM
As usual Fed is all diplomatic BS, and the honest lad from Mallorca speaks the truth from his heart. Agassi's revelation was meant to embarrass the ATP. It could be out of spite for the way his puppet, Perry Rogers, was kicked out of the Player's Council, or he may have some issues with others during his time.

Vyse
10-29-2009, 11:35 AM
I like Nadal's response.

All-rounder
10-29-2009, 11:38 AM
As usual Fed is all diplomatic BS, and the honest lad from Mallorca speaks the truth from his heart. Agassi's revelation was meant to embarrass the ATP. It could be out of spite for the way his puppet, Perry Rogers, was kicked out of the Player's Council, or he may have some issues with others during his time.
You would bash federer whether or not he gave his honest opinion

Ledigs
10-29-2009, 11:38 AM
The google translation makes it very difficult to understand what they are saying

Cantankersore
10-29-2009, 11:39 AM
Hurry guys, we need this thread to also descend into baseless discussion of Nadal's PED usage!

But seriously, I'm glad Agassi came out and admitted it. I'd rather know something than not know something.

Joe Pike
10-29-2009, 11:42 AM
Nadal-"Asked about the surprise statements Andre Agassi, in which the U.S. admitted having used drugs. "I think is fatal," said Nadal, who said he did not understand "why say that now because he is retired, is a way of hurting the sport without any sense. If at the time the ATP covered the topic of Agassi and yes I passed other seems a lack of respect for all sports and from my point of view I want, I believe and hope that none of this is happening now. I think we have a clean sport and I am one who it want it to be, though I disagree with forms. The cheaters must be punished and if Agassi was a cheater in his day should have been punished, "

Federer-Agassi's drug message is also for Federer, "were a shock ':" I am disappointed that something like this has happened. I hope that the outing was good for Agassi. That was better than keeping everything to himself"

Roger takes Agassi but also in protection. He has done incredible things in his career, as a player and as a person. With his Foundation, he has generated over 100 million U.S. dollars. "This is at the forefront," said Federer.

The tennis players are rigorously tested, according to Federer on doping - twenty to thirty times a year. Tests for spontaneous, the tennis player must have one hours a day available. "In the future it will not happen anything. "The sport is to remain healthy," said Federer. (nw)
.............................................

With the language barrier I guess Federer is closer to Agassi and is able to offer Agassi the sympathy or whatever he was looking for by revealing this.


But to be honest, who cares! He should've kept it to himself! What will he reveal next to shock when everybody has forgotten him...that he once had a male relationship with a player? 8)



What exactly has taking meth to do with tennis?

sureshs
10-29-2009, 11:47 AM
You would bash federer whether or not he gave his honest opinion

He needs to stand up for something. Just being against Hawk Eye is not a sign of greatness.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-29-2009, 11:52 AM
Nadal shouldnt even be allowed on commenting this, Agassi and Federer is pure greatness.
Nadal is a buttpicker, crybaby,hypocrite,time-delayer and rule-bender.
He shouldnt even mention Agassis name.

Ledigs
10-29-2009, 11:53 AM
:?Nadal shouldnt even be allowed on commenting this, Agassi and Federer is pure greatness.
Nadal is a buttpicker, crybaby,hypocrite,time-delayer and rule-bender.
He shouldnt even mention Agassis name.

now now

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-29-2009, 11:56 AM
:?

now now
This is my humble opinion.
I dont have to like him, right?

LiveForever
10-29-2009, 11:57 AM
Nadal shouldnt even be allowed on commenting this, Agassi and Federer is pure greatness.
Nadal is a buttpicker, crybaby,hypocrite,time-delayer and rule-bender.
He shouldnt even mention Agassis name.
You are absolutely crazy. Nadal is 23 years of age and is for sure gonna surpass almost all of Agassi's achievements. He is a great Tennis champion and should be allowed to comment on whatever he likes.

Blinkism
10-29-2009, 11:58 AM
Nadal shouldnt even be allowed on commenting this, Agassi and Federer is pure greatness.
Nadal is a buttpicker, crybaby,hypocrite,time-delayer and rule-bender.
He shouldnt even mention Agassis name.

Don't forget that he's also a topspin monkey and a 'roids junkie

FedSampras1
10-29-2009, 11:58 AM
Nadal-"Asked about the surprise statements Andre Agassi, in which the U.S. admitted having used drugs. "I think is fatal," said Nadal, who said he did not understand "why say that now because he is retired, is a way of hurting the sport without any sense. If at the time the ATP covered the topic of Agassi and yes I passed other seems a lack of respect for all sports and from my point of view I want, I believe and hope that none of this is happening now. I think we have a clean sport and I am one who it want it to be, though I disagree with forms. The cheaters must be punished and if Agassi was a cheater in his day should have been punished, "

LMFAO
The one who needs to be punished is Nadal for juicer:evil:
He should have kept his mouth shut

All-rounder
10-29-2009, 12:01 PM
He needs to stand up for something. Just being against Hawk Eye is not a sign of greatness.
I just don't like the fact that you don't respect Federer's opinion on this situation just because nadal's is different you may think its the right thing to say when in reality its just another opinion.

EKnee08
10-29-2009, 12:07 PM
Nadal-"Asked about the surprise statements Andre Agassi, in which the U.S. admitted having used drugs. "I think is fatal," said Nadal, who said he did not understand "why say that now because he is retired, is a way of hurting the sport without any sense. If at the time the ATP covered the topic of Agassi and yes I passed other seems a lack of respect for all sports and from my point of view I want, I believe and hope that none of this is happening now. I think we have a clean sport and I am one who it want it to be, though I disagree with forms. The cheaters must be punished and if Agassi was a cheater in his day should have been punished, "

Federer-Agassi's drug message is also for Federer, "were a shock ':" I am disappointed that something like this has happened. I hope that the outing was good for Agassi. That was better than keeping everything to himself"

Roger takes Agassi but also in protection. He has done incredible things in his career, as a player and as a person. With his Foundation, he has generated over 100 million U.S. dollars. "This is at the forefront," said Federer.

The tennis players are rigorously tested, according to Federer on doping - twenty to thirty times a year. Tests for spontaneous, the tennis player must have one hours a day available. "In the future it will not happen anything. "The sport is to remain healthy," said Federer. (nw)
.............................................

With the language barrier I guess Federer is closer to Agassi and is able to offer Agassi the sympathy or whatever he was looking for by revealing this.


But to be honest, who cares! He should've kept it to himself! What will he reveal next to shock when everybody has forgotten him...that he once had a male relationship with a player? 8)

Maybe its a language barrier with Rafa- but taking meth, did not make him a "cheater." It is a recreational drug and not a performance enhancing drug. If anything, it was a "performance reducer" and probably contributed to his short-term decline. Thats not to say that he shouldn't have been punished at the time for substance abuse as a negative impact on the sport.

Blinkism
10-29-2009, 12:08 PM
Maybe its a language barrier with Rafa- but taking meth, did not make him a "cheater." It is a recreational drug and not a performance enhancing drug. If anything, it was a "performance reducer" and probably contributed to his short-term decline. Thats not to say that he shouldn't have been punished at the time for substance abuse as a negative impact on the sport.

Taking Meth before stepping on the court could enhance your performance, though.

It could make you hyperactive and super-focused.

Agassi didn't admit to taking it on-court, but rather said something along the lines of using it experimentally.

Still, it shouldn't be allowed in sport.

But, he's retired so what can you do?

MichaelChang
10-29-2009, 12:09 PM
deleted nvm.

Cesc Fabregas
10-29-2009, 12:12 PM
Hahaha, wheres Mandy? Its Federer speaking the "politically correct nonence", she would be a hyprocrite not to criticise Federer.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-29-2009, 12:12 PM
You are absolutely crazy. Nadal is 23 years of age and is for sure gonna surpass almost all of Agassi's achievements. He is a great Tennis champion and should be allowed to comment on whatever he likes.
No he shouldnt, and he sure as hell didnt say this himself, he can barely say hello in English let alone express something like this, i think Uncle Toni told him what to say or someone else wrote his stetement.

flyinghippos101
10-29-2009, 12:15 PM
As usual Fed is all diplomatic BS, and the honest lad from Mallorca speaks the truth from his heart. Agassi's revelation was meant to embarrass the ATP. It could be out of spite for the way his puppet, Perry Rogers, was kicked out of the Player's Council, or he may have some issues with others during his time.

Double standards galore! huzzah!

EKnee08
10-29-2009, 12:18 PM
Taking Meth before stepping on the court could enhance your performance, though.

It could make you hyperactive and super-focused.

Agassi didn't admit to taking it on-court, but rather said something along the lines of using it experimentally.

Still, it shouldn't be allowed in sport.

But, he's retired so what can you do?

You are probably right but don't most people play their best, "in the zone", when they are calm, almost at peace and in the flow. I would think that if one becomes hyperactive, they can not think clearly and may be moving thru things too fast to perform at their best.

If Andre took it off court, how would it impact his performance on court. Is there a crash, etc? I don't profess to know these things. Fortunately, I haven't needed to know much about drugs.

jazzyfunkybluesy
10-29-2009, 12:24 PM
Nadal took steroids?

icedevil0289
10-29-2009, 12:27 PM
No he shouldnt, and he sure as hell didnt say this himself, he can barely say hello in English let alone express something like this, i think Uncle Toni told him what to say or someone else wrote his stetement.

are you serious? I think you're exaggerating greatly by saying Nadal can barely say hello in English. Nadal's English is not that bad and as a tennis player, he is allowed to express his opinion on the matter. Just because you don't like Nadal, doesn't make his opinion any less valid.

wilkinru
10-29-2009, 12:31 PM
You are absolutely crazy. Nadal is 23 years of age and is for sure gonna surpass almost all of Agassi's achievements. He is a great Tennis champion and should be allowed to comment on whatever he likes.

Woah woah hold on now.

For sure going to surpass?

Anyway, the translation makes it difficult to understand.

Matt H.
10-29-2009, 12:33 PM
people need to get over it. The older you get, the more you understand.

People are human, and emotions are real. The guy was going through a rough point in his life and he tried a recreational drug. He wasn't the first, nor will he be the last as people make this decision every single day.

It could have been the catalyst as it helped him to hit true rock bottom and decide to change his ways.

Ledigs
10-29-2009, 12:34 PM
No he shouldnt, and he sure as hell didnt say this himself, he can barely say hello in English let alone express something like this, i think Uncle Toni told him what to say or someone else wrote his stetement.

Nadal is a much better speaker now. Watch some recent press conferences.

Baikalic
10-29-2009, 12:34 PM
Based on the responses to Roger/Rafa's responses in this thread I think this board is taking the meth issue more seriously than Rafa and Roger are.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-29-2009, 12:35 PM
are you serious? I think you're exaggerating greatly by saying Nadal can barely say hello in English. Nadal's English is not that bad and as a tennis player, he is allowed to express his opinion on the matter. Just because you don't like Nadal, doesn't make his opinion any less valid.

You are right, i over-reacted and exaggerated, but its so ridiculous the Nad-***** think that God himself has spoken!

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-29-2009, 12:36 PM
Nadal is a much better speaker now. Watch some recent press conferences.
Nice to see that Uncle Toni sending him to Englsih summerschool paid off.

Matt H.
10-29-2009, 12:37 PM
there are over 30,000 members on the TW message board.

I bet at least 10% have tried an illegal drug in their life.

Agassifan
10-29-2009, 12:37 PM
that translation is a disgrace

Baikalic
10-29-2009, 12:38 PM
You are right, i over-reacted and exaggerated, but its so ridiculous the Nad-***** think that God himself has spoken!

Who said that they thought God himself has spoken? I certainly didn't think so.

AlpineCadet
10-29-2009, 12:39 PM
Agassi went from Shields to Graf, he must be hating life.

icedevil0289
10-29-2009, 12:39 PM
You are right, i over-reacted and exaggerated, but its so ridiculous the Nad-***** think that God himself has spoken!

so because one ********* criticized fed in this thread, you need to go into bash mode? You're no different from some of them then.

President
10-29-2009, 12:39 PM
You are right, i over-reacted and exaggerated, but its so ridiculous the Nad-***** think that God himself has spoken!

Why do you hate Nadal so much? I know you are a big Federer fan; I am as well. But that doesn't cause me to hate his main rival with such a passion.

Honestly, Nadal has never done anything to Federer or anybody else to warrant such hatred. Are you just upset that Nadal has been a thorn in Federer's side for all these years and looks like he will surpass Agassi (another player who you seem to adore)?

icedevil0289
10-29-2009, 12:40 PM
Nice to see that Uncle Toni sending him to Englsih summerschool paid off.

see that was uncalled for. The guy did not even say a word about fed in this thread, so there was no need for a bitter response and he is right, nadal's english has greatly improved.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-29-2009, 12:41 PM
Who said that they thought God himself has spoken? I certainly didn't think so.
I dont wanna hang out certain posters. Go through every post if you want to- thats the impression i got-if you dont agree it- thats fine.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-29-2009, 12:42 PM
Why do you hate Nadal so much? I know you are a big Federer fan; I am as well. But that doesn't cause me to hate his main rival with such a passion.

Honestly, Nadal has never done anything to Federer or anybody else to warrant such hatred. Are you just upset that Nadal has been a thorn in Federer's side for all these years and looks like he will surpass Agassi (another player who you seem to adore)?
That would be spot on, yes, im man enough to admit that thats the case. It troubles me a great deal.

NamRanger
10-29-2009, 12:43 PM
Isn't it funny how Nadal defends Gasquet and Michael Phelps for recreation drug use yet he torches Agassi for admitting that he used a recreational drug?

President
10-29-2009, 12:46 PM
Isn't it funny how Nadal defends Gasquet and Michael Phelps for recreation drug use yet he torches Agassi for admitting that he used a recreational drug?

I don't know about his comments on Phelps, but Nadal only said that he believed Gasquet when he said he did not take cocaine intentionally. He never condoned recreational drug use.

vive le beau jeu !
10-29-2009, 12:49 PM
so... nadal (el nadal, el mismo, si si !) suggesting agassi is a cheater ? :rolleyes:

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-29-2009, 12:49 PM
Isn't it funny how Nadal defends Gasquet and Michael Phelps for recreation drug use yet he torches Agassi for admitting that he used a recreational drug?
Thats a good post, never thought about that...:-?

NamRanger
10-29-2009, 12:50 PM
I don't know about his comments on Phelps, but Nadal only said that he believed Gasquet when he said he did not take cocaine intentionally. He never condoned recreational drug use.




Melbourne - Spanish tennis star Rafael Nadal on Monday stood up for US swimmer Michael Phelps, who apologized after being photographed with a pipe usually used for marijuana consumption. "It does not portray the best possible image, but everyone can have a slip-up. In the end sportsmen are just not machines," tennis world number one Nadal said. "Everyone is free to do whatever they want."



http://www.independentweekly.com.au/news/local/sport/general/nadal-defends-pipesmoking-phelps/1423124.aspx



Yea ok Nadal.

Ledigs
10-29-2009, 12:50 PM
Yes but Phelps was not in training for anything at the time. Tennis has a drug policy.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-29-2009, 12:51 PM
so because one ********* criticized fed in this thread, you need to go into bash mode? You're no different from some of them then.
Im back to myself-mode again :)
Im passionate, i get carried away sometimes.

President
10-29-2009, 12:52 PM
Melbourne - Spanish tennis star Rafael Nadal on Monday stood up for US swimmer Michael Phelps, who apologized after being photographed with a pipe usually used for marijuana consumption. "It does not portray the best possible image, but everyone can have a slip-up. In the end sportsmen are just not machines," tennis world number one Nadal said. "Everyone is free to do whatever they want."



http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/253837



Yea ok Nadal.

That looks bad. Maybe Nadal doesn't know its against the law? His last statement would seem to indicate it.

Also, rather than condoning it, he acknowledged that it was a bad thing, referring to it as a "slip-up".

NamRanger
10-29-2009, 12:53 PM
That looks bad. Maybe Nadal doesn't know its against the law? His last statement would seem to indicate it.

Also, rather than condoning it, he acknowledged that it was a bad thing, referring to it as a "slip-up".



I'm sure he knows it's against the law, but basically he's saying that he understands and that although he doesn't condone it, it's not like he'll hate the guy for doing it. However, a few months down the road he torches Agassi for the very same reason basically.



I personally think Nadal is just mad that his free pass on the tests just got exposed.

President
10-29-2009, 12:56 PM
I'm sure he knows it's against the law, but basically he's saying that he understands and that although he doesn't condone it, it's not like he'll hate the guy for doing it. However, a few months down the road he torches Agassi for the very same reason basically.



I personally think Nadal is just mad that his free pass on the tests just got exposed.

Where does he say he will hate Agassi? He was just saying that it was bad that Agassi did meth and he believes he should have been punished for it.

In his statement on Phelps that you provided, he said nothing that indicated that he thought Phelps shouldn't be punished; he just said that he could understand his actions and that no athlete was perfect.

Baikalic
10-29-2009, 12:57 PM
Can somebody find a link to the actual story? I can't find it from google rigt now.

If this really is a google translation then I am not going to put stock in these exact words just yet.

AlpineCadet
10-29-2009, 12:57 PM
I'm sure doping in the ATP is MUCH bigger than Nadal.

feetofclay
10-29-2009, 01:00 PM
Maybe its a language barrier with Rafa- but taking meth, did not make him a "cheater." It is a recreational drug and not a performance enhancing drug. If anything, it was a "performance reducer" and probably contributed to his short-term decline. Thats not to say that he shouldn't have been punished at the time for substance abuse as a negative impact on the sport.

From Yahoo Sport,

" Agassi, now 39, spoke of the moment he took crystal meth, a highly-addictive amphetamine, for the first time when his career was in free-fall. He was helped by his drug-user assistant, known as Slim."

An extract from The Times,


"Slim dumps a small pile of powder on the coffee table. He cuts it, snorts it. He cuts it again. I snort some. I ease back on the couch and consider the Rubicon I've just crossed," said Agassi.

"There is a moment of regret, followed by vast sadness. Then comes a tidal wave of euphoria that sweeps away every negative thought in my head. I've never felt so alive, so hopeful -- and I've never felt such energy."

His career was in decline before the drug abuse and surely his new found feelings of euphoria, energy and hope didn't detract from his performance.

When he made the decision to lie his way out of it, he became a 'cheater'.

rk_sports
10-29-2009, 01:05 PM
Isn't it funny how Nadal defends Gasquet and Michael Phelps for recreation drug use yet he torches Agassi for admitting that he used a recreational drug?

Wow! that's a great point! I had forgotten about that!

P.S. I like both Rafa and Roger .. so dont hang me pls ;)

Cyan
10-29-2009, 01:08 PM
Nadal-"Asked about the surprise statements Andre Agassi, in which the U.S. admitted having used drugs. "I think is fatal," said Nadal, who said he did not understand "why say that now because he is retired, is a way of hurting the sport without any sense. If at the time the ATP covered the topic of Agassi and yes I passed other seems a lack of respect for all sports and from my point of view I want, I believe and hope that none of this is happening now. I think we have a clean sport and I am one who it want it to be, though I disagree with forms. The cheaters must be punished and if Agassi was a cheater in his day should have been punished, "

Federer-Agassi's drug message is also for Federer, "were a shock ':" I am disappointed that something like this has happened. I hope that the outing was good for Agassi. That was better than keeping everything to himself"

Roger takes Agassi but also in protection. He has done incredible things in his career, as a player and as a person. With his Foundation, he has generated over 100 million U.S. dollars. "This is at the forefront," said Federer.

The tennis players are rigorously tested, according to Federer on doping - twenty to thirty times a year. Tests for spontaneous, the tennis player must have one hours a day available. "In the future it will not happen anything. "The sport is to remain healthy," said Federer. (nw)
.............................................

With the language barrier I guess Federer is closer to Agassi and is able to offer Agassi the sympathy or whatever he was looking for by revealing this.


But to be honest, who cares! He should've kept it to himself! What will he reveal next to shock when everybody has forgotten him...that he once had a male relationship with a player? 8)

I won't be surprised of seeing Agassi admitting of having homosexual sex in his younger days....

EDIT: Homosexual sex with Courier, of course.....

Anaconda
10-29-2009, 01:11 PM
Drugs are good for relaxation. Last year before i took my GCSE's, i would always smoke some grade with some people round this park, ended up getting B's in every exam.......Agassi probably did it because he was stressed.

Dutch-Guy
10-29-2009, 01:13 PM
What a *** translation!!! Post the whole article in Spanish so that i can translate it myself.

Ledigs
10-29-2009, 01:13 PM
I'm sure he knows it's against the law, but basically he's saying that he understands and that although he doesn't condone it, it's not like he'll hate the guy for doing it. However, a few months down the road he torches Agassi for the very same reason basically.



I personally think Nadal is just mad that his free pass on the tests just got exposed.

Phelps didn't break any drug policy when he did it.

jamesblakefan#1
10-29-2009, 01:19 PM
Yes but Phelps was not in training for anything at the time. Tennis has a drug policy.

Swimming has a drug policy as well, and Phelps was suspended, didn't you know?

Phelps didn't break any drug policy when he did it.

He did.

feetofclay
10-29-2009, 01:19 PM
Strange how Federer feels the need to be protective towards Agassi. He didn't feel that way about Canas.

Interview after his loss to Canas Indian Wells 2007

Give me some thoughts when he was suspended for 15 months, whether he'd ever come back again? Are you kind of surprised he's been able to do what he's done?

ROGER FEDERER: Well, you know, I'm really -- I don't know how the whole process of how something like that happens. They always fight for it anyway, everybody that was tested positive, you know. That's, for me, just not understandable, you know. Everybody who gets caught always says, "I didn't do anything," so...
It's just not right, you know.
It depends on how long the suspension is. In the end, they always cut them short, you know. So I'm definitely not surprised to see him back, you know.

kslick
10-29-2009, 01:20 PM
no kidding its called out of competition drug testing.

Cyan
10-29-2009, 01:22 PM
Strange how Federer feels the need to be protective towards Agassi. He didn't feel that way about Canas.

Interview after his loss to Canas Indian Wells 2007

Give me some thoughts when he was suspended for 15 months, whether he'd ever come back again? Are you kind of surprised he's been able to do what he's done?

ROGER FEDERER: Well, you know, I'm really -- I don't know how the whole process of how something like that happens. They always fight for it anyway, everybody that was tested positive, you know. That's, for me, just not understandable, you know. Everybody who gets caught always says, "I didn't do anything," so...
It's just not right, you know.
It depends on how long the suspension is. In the end, they always cut them short, you know. So I'm definitely not surprised to see him back, you know.

Canas, unlike Agassi, was not the one kissing his arse and saying that Fed is better than Sampras :rolleyes:

jamesblakefan#1
10-29-2009, 01:24 PM
Canas, unlike Agassi, was not the one kissing his arse and saying that Fed is better than Sampras :rolleyes:

Irrelevant...

TheMusicLover
10-29-2009, 01:27 PM
Canas, unlike Agassi, was not the one kissing his arse and saying that Fed is better than Sampras :rolleyes:

Pretty sure Mr. Canas will agree on that by now, getting his arse spanked thereafter by Feds, and never to have been seen anywhere again ...

Blinkism
10-29-2009, 01:27 PM
Melbourne - Spanish tennis star Rafael Nadal on Monday stood up for US swimmer Michael Phelps, who apologized after being photographed with a pipe usually used for marijuana consumption. "It does not portray the best possible image, but everyone can have a slip-up. In the end sportsmen are just not machines," tennis world number one Nadal said. "Everyone is free to do whatever they want."



http://www.independentweekly.com.au/news/local/sport/general/nadal-defends-pipesmoking-phelps/1423124.aspx



Yea ok Nadal.

No, Nadal is criticizing Agassi not just for the actual drug use but for admitting it when he didn't have to. Nadal felt that this is bad for tennis's image.

Phelps and Gasquet didn't admit anything, they got caught.

So what Nadal is saying, basically, is "why say anything at all?"

That looks bad. Maybe Nadal doesn't know its against the law? His last statement would seem to indicate it.

Also, rather than condoning it, he acknowledged that it was a bad thing, referring to it as a "slip-up".

Smoking marijuana, at home in private (like at a party, for example) is not illegal in Spain- like it would be in the United States.

Becksx1
10-29-2009, 01:28 PM
The worrying thing is if this took place back in 1997 then how many other drug users have been picked up and let off? I mean in baseball it is all of a sudden coming out so it would be interesting to see if the ATP had a file on everyone who has failed a drugs test for whatever reason. I would not be at all surprised to hear that if agassi was let off in 1997 then in the 12 odd years since someone else has been let off.

veroniquem
10-29-2009, 01:36 PM
I actually disagree with Rafa on one point. If that's what actuallly happened, Agassi is 100% right to be candid about it. There is 0 point to an autobiography in which you would dissimulate or lie about such crucial events in your life and career. I liked what Fed says about him hoping it will do Agassi good to come clean with this stuff as well as with his destructive relationship with his father. This kind of honesty is what makes autobiographies worthwhile for both author and readers. If you're not gonna be honest, why bother? (other than making money naturally :???:) Whether this account is detrimental to the sport or not is completely irrelevant IMO. Whatever is the truth should be coming out period.
OTOH, I agree with Nadal that the ATP covering up for Agassi is not acceptable. If a non star had been in the same situation, they would have crucified him like they did Gasquet. There's no possible way to justify their "tolerance" of Agassi's "problems" just on account of his star status and maybe also of his being American. To me, it doesn't make any difference whether the use was recreational or not. It's a powerful drug and Agassi should have been called out on it right away but that's hardly Agassi's fault, it's the tennis authorities that behaved in an unconscionable manner.

Cyan
10-29-2009, 01:36 PM
No, Nadal is criticizing Agassi not just for the actual drug use but for admitting it when he didn't have to. Nadal felt that this is bad for tennis's image.

Phelps and Gasquet didn't admit anything, they got caught.

So what Nadal is saying, basically, is "why say anything at all?"



Smoking marijuana, at home in private (like at a party, for example) is not illegal in Spain- like it would be in the United States.

Lets face it, Agassi only cares about selling many copies of his book even if he has to hurt the image of tennis:shock:

veroniquem
10-29-2009, 01:38 PM
The worrying thing is if this took place back in 1997 then how many other drug users have been picked up and let off? I mean in baseball it is all of a sudden coming out so it would be interesting to see if the ATP had a file on everyone who has failed a drugs test for whatever reason. I would not be at all surprised to hear that if agassi was let off in 1997 then in the 12 odd years since someone else has been let off.

ITA, this makes it very hard to trust ATP's integrity on the whole (not that I ever was that trusting to begin with!)

veroniquem
10-29-2009, 01:40 PM
Lets face it, Agassi only cares about selling many copies of his book even if he has to hurt the image of tennis:shock:




Maybe (he was always excellent at marketing!) but the difficulties with his dad ring true to me. It corresponds to certain things that I heard before and I don't believe Andre would lie about that stuff (even to sell a book!)

kslick
10-29-2009, 01:40 PM
The book isn't about Tennis its more about himself and life is bigger than Tennis.

Sartorius
10-29-2009, 01:43 PM
Links: http://www.gototennisblog.com/2009/10/29/federer-roddick-serena-react-to-agassi-drug-confession/ (includes other players' reactions, Roddick, Serena, etc.)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091029/en_afp/tennisagassiusadrugsfederer (Federer's statement in a better English.)

I can't find a link to Nadal's statements.

I don't see anything wrong with Nadal's and Federer's statements, and I really don't understand how people think Federer is defensive of Agassi while saying he's "shocked" and "disappointed". He's right about how much Agassi has done as a player and a person... Nadal also has the right to state his own opinion on Agassi's outing and the way ATP handled the situation.

Cyan
10-29-2009, 01:45 PM
Maybe (he was always excellent at marketing!) but the difficulties with his dad ring true to me. It corresponds to certain things that I heard before and I don't believe Andre would lie about that stuff (even to sell a book!)

I'm not saying he is lying.

JennyS
10-29-2009, 01:51 PM
Isn't it funny how Nadal defends Gasquet and Michael Phelps for recreation drug use yet he torches Agassi for admitting that he used a recreational drug?

I think the real irony is that Nadal was the one who sort of provided Gasquet's alibi (kissed a girl) and Agassi actually used a similar excuse to cover up his positive test. Maybe he's ****ed at Agassi because then people will accuse him of helping Gasquet get off the hook for using cocaine.

P_Agony
10-29-2009, 01:55 PM
You would bash federer whether or not he gave his honest opinion

Why would sureshs bash the 18-slam winner, undistupted GOAT? ;-)

veroniquem
10-29-2009, 01:56 PM
[QUOTE=NamRanger;4064881]I'm sure he knows it's against the law, but basically he's saying that he understands and that although he doesn't condone it, it's not like he'll hate the guy for doing it. However, a few months down the road he torches Agassi for the very same reason basically.



Comparing pot to crystal meth is a little like comparing beer to absinthe!
+ in the case of Agassi, from what I read about his book, it was heavy AND prolonged use that caused his slump in the late 90s. Sorry but very different from smoking a joint!

JennyS
10-29-2009, 01:57 PM
Links: http://www.gototennisblog.com/2009/10/29/federer-roddick-serena-react-to-agassi-drug-confession/ (includes other players' reactions, Roddick, Serena, etc.)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091029/en_afp/tennisagassiusadrugsfederer (Federer's statement in a better English.)

I can't find a link to Nadal's statements.

I don't see anything wrong with Nadal's and Federer's statements, and I really don't understand how people think Federer is defensive of Agassi while saying he's "shocked" and "disappointed". He's right about how much Agassi has done as a player and a person... Nadal also has the right to state his own opinion on Agassi's outing and the way ATP handled the situation.

Thanks!

For those interested, here is the better translation of Fed's comments:

"It was a shock when I heard the news. I am disappointed and I hope there are no more such cases in future," Federer said at a sponsors meeting at Kilchberg near Zurich.

But Federer also noted that Agassi "has done a lot for tennis, both as a player and as a human being".

"Today, he raises millions of dollars for his foundation for disadvantaged children," the Swiss commented.

"Our sport must stay clean," he stressed.

P_Agony
10-29-2009, 01:58 PM
Pretty sure Mr. Canas will agree on that by now, getting his arse spanked thereafter by Feds, and never to have been seen anywhere again ...

That bagel from Madrid 2007 tasted really good I'm sure ;-)

veroniquem
10-29-2009, 01:59 PM
I think the real irony is that Nadal was the one who sort of provided Gasquet's alibi (kissed a girl) and Agassi actually used a similar excuse to cover up his positive test. Maybe he's ****ed at Agassi because then people will accuse him of helping Gasquet get off the hook for using cocaine.


That is really far fetched but the girl kissing excuse always sounded a little suspicious anyway... I guess that's the typical excuse players use when they get caught :) (that the thing got into their system INADVERTENTLY)

kslick
10-29-2009, 01:59 PM
Heavy and prolonged. Link to source please.

ksbh
10-29-2009, 02:04 PM
Roger Federer, as ever, with his politically correct drivel. No surprises there! As artificial a tennis player as I ever saw. They might as well interview a robot!

What is it with these tennis players when they get older? Pete Sampras can't stop talking about the current top 2 and Andre Agassi just made an admission that could destroy a legacy that he spent an entire career building. Why make such an admission now when it doesn't matter anymore? Very stupid!

That being said, Andre is a legend. He's the man ... meth or no meth!

JennyS
10-29-2009, 02:04 PM
here's a better translation of Rafa's comments:
"If the ATP covered for Agassi at the time then I think that's dreadful," Nadal said in Madrid as he prepared to receive a civic award.

"The only thing I can say is that if they covered at that moment for the player and punished others for doing the same kind of thing then that would seem to me to be a lack of respect for all sportsmen," the world number two said.

Nadal concluded that "cheats have to be punished" and said he could not understand why Agassi "now that he is retired comes out and says this - it's a way of senselessly damaging the sport".

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/tennis/top-stories/Nadal-shocked-at-ATP-over-Agassi-drug-admission-/articleshow/5178465.cms

flyinghippos101
10-29-2009, 02:07 PM
Roger Federer, as ever, with his politically correct drivel. No surprises there! As artificial a tennis player as I ever saw. They might as well interview a robot!

What is it with these tennis players when they get older? Pete Sampras can't stop talking about the current top 2 and Andre Agassi just made an admission that could destroy a legacy that he spent an entire career building. Why make such an admission now when it doesn't matter anymore? Very stupid!

That being said, Andre is a legend. He's the man ... meth or no meth!

Refer to post #22

veroniquem
10-29-2009, 02:09 PM
Heavy and prolonged. Link to source please.


http://www.examiner.com/x-8182-Tampa-Tennis-Examiner~y2009m10d29-Andre-Agassi-claims-I-hated-tennis-in-upcoming-autobiography-video-and-pictures
(4th paragraph)

veroniquem
10-29-2009, 02:13 PM
here's a better translation of Rafa's comments:
"If the ATP covered for Agassi at the time then I think that's dreadful," Nadal said in Madrid as he prepared to receive a civic award.

"The only thing I can say is that if they covered at that moment for the player and punished others for doing the same kind of thing then that would seem to me to be a lack of respect for all sportsmen," the world number two said.

Nadal concluded that "cheats have to be punished" and said he could not understand why Agassi "now that he is retired comes out and says this - it's a way of senselessly damaging the sport".

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/tennis/top-stories/Nadal-shocked-at-ATP-over-Agassi-drug-admission-/articleshow/5178465.cms


Thanks, that's a much better translation. I think Rafa's words make a lot of sense and ITA except for the last sentence because I think Agassi was right to confess.

ksbh
10-29-2009, 02:14 PM
I did. Let me remind you that but for Agassi, tennis may have been competing with squash for popularity! This man brought the masses to tennis in a way that no player did.

If the Association of clueless Professionals, the erstwhile ATP, can't enforce their rules properly, it ain't the players problem!

Refer to post #22

pame
10-29-2009, 02:18 PM
The really amusing thing about the tag team of suresh, kbsh and Cesc is that if Fed and Nadal had made the other's statements, the tag team would have been equally quick to bash Fed (they would have found the opposite reason.) Those three are SO predictable :rolleyes::shock:

ksbh
10-29-2009, 02:23 PM
Pame ... LOL! Listen, I don't know about Suresh & Cesc but just when has Federer really spoken his mind aside from the year he took cheap shots at his chief rival when the Spaniard was just beginning his ascent?!

I have nothing personal against Federer but facts must be stated!

The really amusing thing about the tag team of suresh, kbsh and Cesc is that if Fed and Nadal had made the other's statements, the tag team would have been equally quick to bash Fed (they would have found the opposite reason.) Those three are SO predictable :rolleyes::shock:

pame
10-29-2009, 02:25 PM
Pame ... LOL! Listen, I don't know about Suresh & Cesc but just when has Federer really spoken his mind aside from the year he took cheap shots at his chief rival when the Spaniard was just beginning his ascent?!

I have nothing personal against Federer but facts must be stated!

Oh I didn't realise you coincidentally happen to parrot each other every time! rofl

ksbh
10-29-2009, 02:30 PM
Neither did I, Pame! ROFL! :)

Oh I didn't realise you coincidentally happen to parrot each other every time! rofl

ninman
10-29-2009, 02:53 PM
Nadal shouldnt even be allowed on commenting this, Agassi and Federer is pure greatness.
Nadal is a buttpicker, crybaby,hypocrite,time-delayer and rule-bender.
He shouldnt even mention Agassis name.

You also forgot juicer. Nadal is probably doping, which is far worse than taking meth.

zagor
10-29-2009, 02:55 PM
Pame ... LOL! Listen, I don't know about Suresh & Cesc but just when has Federer really spoken his mind aside from the year he took cheap shots at his chief rival when the Spaniard was just beginning his ascent?!

I have nothing personal against Federer but facts must be stated!

When he spoke against implementation of round robin(in normal tourneys not masters cup)and hawk eye(one of the few players who's very vocally against it),when he said Murray's game is too defensive(to which many coaches agree these days actually),when he complained about Novak's medical timeouts,uncle Toni's oncourt coaching,when he openly declared before the tourney he trained hard and was ready to win Madrid etc. For many of those things he was criticized in this very forum so I don't know how you missed them.

I may not agree with everything he said there but he has spoken his mind plenty of times,heck in some cases he was probably too honest and should have chosen his words more carefully so Federer not speaking his mind is hardly a fact.

It seems when Fed speaks his mind he's arrogant and is taking cheap shots but when he's acting diplomatically he's a robot,the guy can't seem to be right either way.

P_Agony
10-29-2009, 03:08 PM
When he spoke against implementation of round robin(in normal tourneys not masters cup)and hawk eye(one of the few players who's very vocally against it),when he said Murray's game is too defensive(to which many coaches agree these days actually),when he complained about Novak's medical timeouts,uncle Toni's oncourt coaching,when he openly declared before the tourney he trained hard and was ready to win Madrid etc. For many of those things he was criticized in this very forum so I don't know how you missed them.

I may not agree with everything he said there but he has spoken his mind plenty of times,heck in some cases he was probably too honest and should have chosen his words more carefully so Federer not speaking his mind is hardly a fact.

It seems when Fed speaks his mind he's arrogant and is taking cheap shots but when he's acting diplomatically he's a robot,the guy can't seem to be right either way.

Well written zagor. There was also the Jankovic incident, and I really thought Fed had no business there. However, there are some people here who will bash Fed no matter what he said. Heck, he can say exactly the same thing as Nadal (word by word), and they will still find a way to bash him.

pound cat
10-29-2009, 03:13 PM
BBC.co.uk article



The worst thing was that Agassi lied...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/8333115.stm

pame
10-29-2009, 03:18 PM
Well written zagor. There was also the Jankovic incident, and I really thought Fed had no business there. However, there are some people here who will bash Fed no matter what he said. Heck, he can say exactly the same thing as Nadal (word by word), and they will still find a way to bash him.

The phrase for it is: "when goat dung want to roll, it will roll uphill":-o

zagor
10-29-2009, 03:26 PM
Well written zagor. There was also the Jankovic incident, and I really thought Fed had no business there. However, there are some people here who will bash Fed no matter what he said. Heck, he can say exactly the same thing as Nadal (word by word), and they will still find a way to bash him.

Yeah I forgot about saying that Jelena shouldn't be ranked #1 because she didn't win a slam.I also remember when he said he doesn't like being introduced as #2 player in the world,it didn't sound right to him :).If anything he's too honest(and can sound arrogant at times and I say this as his fan) and should probably learn to be more tactful so I don't quite understand when people say the opposite(that he never speaks his mind).

8pNADAL
10-29-2009, 04:10 PM
We don't know whether or not he just used it one time or multiple times. It obviously didn't affect him positively in tennis and I'm sure he didn't smoke meth right before his tennis matches since in 97 he was not even in the top 100. From what it said in the excerpt he maybe just did it once? Who knows.

plus the regular drug-tests would have shown if he used meth more than once, and if that happened then his spiked drink story wouldnt have worked

LiveForever
10-29-2009, 04:44 PM
When he spoke against implementation of round robin(in normal tourneys not masters cup)and hawk eye(one of the few players who's very vocally against it),when he said Murray's game is too defensive(to which many coaches agree these days actually),when he complained about Novak's medical timeouts,uncle Toni's oncourt coaching,when he openly declared before the tourney he trained hard and was ready to win Madrid etc. For many of those things he was criticized in this very forum so I don't know how you missed them.

I may not agree with everything he said there but he has spoken his mind plenty of times,heck in some cases he was probably too honest and should have chosen his words more carefully so Federer not speaking his mind is hardly a fact.

It seems when Fed speaks his mind he's arrogant and is taking cheap shots but when he's acting diplomatically he's a robot,the guy can't seem to be right either way.
Absolutely correct, Zagor. It amazes me that people dont claim Nadal isnt artificial. Nadal is an exciting player to watch but off court he is duller than a sack of potatoes. " _______ is a good player, I have to play my very best tennis to win, no?", "Roger is the best, no? etc. Nadal doesnt speak his mind that much either. Federer is far more expressive in my opinion.

_maxi
10-29-2009, 04:52 PM
As usual Fed is all diplomatic BS, and the honest lad from Mallorca speaks the truth from his heart. Agassi's revelation was meant to embarrass the ATP. It could be out of spite for the way his puppet, Perry Rogers, was kicked out of the Player's Council, or he may have some issues with others during his time.
It's exactly in reverse. All the time.

Outbeyond
10-29-2009, 05:17 PM
Melbourne - Spanish tennis star Rafael Nadal on Monday stood up for US swimmer Michael Phelps, who apologized after being photographed with a pipe usually used for marijuana consumption. "It does not portray the best possible image, but everyone can have a slip-up. In the end sportsmen are just not machines," tennis world number one Nadal said. "Everyone is free to do whatever they want."

Yea ok Nadal.


You doth protest too much. Nadal knows what we know: Unlike Agassi, Phelps never wrote a new book and then slyly arranged for a salacious announcement ahead of time that this great new book would reveal his secret drug use years ago, his outright lying about it to the swim-team drug-testers and the swim-team drug-tester's easy acceptance of his blatant lie...

The Phelps pipe smoking story pales in comparison...

Bjorkman & Johnny Mac
10-29-2009, 09:07 PM
At least Andre was up front and open regardless if he was trying to sell more copies of his book or not...

Im sure we could dig some skeletons and bones out of Fed and Nadal's closet as well.. Everyone has them

OTMPut
10-29-2009, 09:19 PM
He needs to stand up for something. Just being against Hawk Eye is not a sign of greatness.

You crack me up, as always.

Jay_The_Nomad
10-29-2009, 09:24 PM
You are probably right but don't most people play their best, "in the zone", when they are calm, almost at peace and in the flow. I would think that if one becomes hyperactive, they can not think clearly and may be moving thru things too fast to perform at their best.

If Andre took it off court, how would it impact his performance on court. Is there a crash, etc? I don't profess to know these things. Fortunately, I haven't needed to know much about drugs.

Actually, Meth & amphetmatines causes increased arousal, decreased fatigue & increased cognitive function.

Bjorkman & Johnny Mac
10-29-2009, 09:27 PM
Andre was taking it in 97 when he was at his absolute low and reached 141 in the world.. Obviously Meth wasnt helping his tennis game any

rafan
10-29-2009, 09:33 PM
Nadal-"Asked about the surprise statements Andre Agassi, in which the U.S. admitted having used drugs. "I think is fatal," said Nadal, who said he did not understand "why say that now because he is retired, is a way of hurting the sport without any sense. If at the time the ATP covered the topic of Agassi and yes I passed other seems a lack of respect for all sports and from my point of view I want, I believe and hope that none of this is happening now. I think we have a clean sport and I am one who it want it to be, though I disagree with forms. The cheaters must be punished and if Agassi was a cheater in his day should have been punished, "

Federer-Agassi's drug message is also for Federer, "were a shock ':" I am disappointed that something like this has happened. I hope that the outing was good for Agassi. That was better than keeping everything to himself"#


Roger takes Agassi but also in protection. He has done incredible things in his career, as a player and as a person. With his Foundation, he has generated over 100 million U.S. dollars. "This is at the forefront," said Federer.

The tennis players are rigorously tested, according to Federer on doping - twenty to thirty times a year. Tests for spontaneous, the tennis player must have one hours a day available. "In the future it will not happen anything. "The sport is to remain healthy," said Federer. (nw)
.............................................

With the language barrier I guess Federer is closer to Agassi and is able to offer Agassi the sympathy or whatever he was looking for by revealing this.


But to be honest, who cares! He should've kept it to himself! What will he reveal next to shock when everybody has forgotten him...that he once had a male relationship with a player? 8)

Yes I think Federer has captured the situation well. Like a man who cheats on his wife and then confesses to her, you ask yourself who wins in this situation. He has just made an awful lot of people unhappy by "getting it off his chest" He could repent in other ways - probably he has - with charity work and donating some of the money during his drug time to a very worthy cause

Morrissey
10-29-2009, 09:45 PM
No he shouldnt, and he sure as hell didnt say this himself, he can barely say hello in English let alone express something like this, i think Uncle Toni told him what to say or someone else wrote his stetement.

You my friend are an idiot. Someone please shut this knucklehead up.

mandy01
10-29-2009, 09:53 PM
Hahaha, wheres Mandy? Its Federer speaking the "politically correct nonence", she would be a hyprocrite not to criticise Federer. WTF?! What the hell are you talking about?!
So Roger is politically correct because because he said Agassi raised millions for underpriviledged kids?! So all the good things he did should now be discounted because of one incident to which he confessed?
Roger knows Andre MUCH better than Nadal having played him several times.Its obvious the guy has a different take than Nadal.
What Andre made was a mistake BUT it was NOT the same as cheating .Dont even go there.
And yeah Roger is really politically correct thats why he's already spoken through his actions by asking the WADA to preserve samples for 8 years.

mandy01
10-29-2009, 09:54 PM
Isn't it funny how Nadal defends Gasquet and Michael Phelps for recreation drug use yet he torches Agassi for admitting that he used a recreational drug? Precisely.And really Gasquet's defence was so fishy I'm having trouble believing the guy really is innocent.

OTMPut
10-29-2009, 10:02 PM
WTF?! What the hell are you talking about?!
So Roger is politically correct because because he said Agassi raised millions for underpriviledged kids?! So all the good things he did should now be discounted because of one incident to which he confessed?
Roger knows Andre MUCH better than Nadal having played him several times.Its obvious the guy has a different take than Nadal.
What Andre made was mistake BUT it was NOT the same as cheating .Dont even go there.

Nadal can't speak a single coherent sentence in English and so whatever he speaks comes "straight from heart".

Federer is more fluent and speaks something well considered and he is a poser.

No wonder GWB was elected twice.

mandy01
10-29-2009, 10:02 PM
He needs to stand up for something. Just being against Hawk Eye is not a sign of greatness.
Really?So why is it that Federer came out in defence of the new doping rules saying they HAD to be implemented no matter how painful the process would be while Nadal was busy moaning about them?
The WADA boss slammed Nadal and Murray not Federer because he wasnt the one whinning about them.

dropshot winner
10-29-2009, 10:21 PM
Canas, unlike Agassi, was not the one kissing his arse and saying that Fed is better than Sampras :rolleyes:

Canas was tested positive for a substance that is widely used to cover up other doping substances, Agassi used recreational drugs.

Asking to treat those two equally is like saying a cyclist that is tested for weed should be punished as hard as one that used EPO (obviously weed is not nearly as bad as meth, but you get the point).

NamRanger
10-29-2009, 10:29 PM
Canas was tested positive for a substance that is widely used to cover up other doping substances, Agassi used recreational drugs.

Asking to treat those two equally is like saying a cyclist that is tested for weed should be punished as hard as one that used EPO (obviously weed is not nearly as bad as meth, but you get the point).




The amount of substance found in Canas' body was absolutely negligible and that there was no way it could have been used to cover up any drug. The only plausible explanation was a contamination of one of his supplements / food. And Canas STILL got banned for like a year.



Yet Agassi gets a free pass.

dropshot winner
10-29-2009, 10:40 PM
The amount of substance found in Canas' body was absolutely negligible and that there was no way it could have been used to cover up any drug. The only plausible explanation was a contamination of one of his supplements / food. And Canas STILL got banned for like a year.



Yet Agassi gets a free pass.
No, when you use those substances correctly the left amount in the blood is so small that it can't be detected in tests. Canas probably messed up with the dosage or timing which left a slightly too high amount of them in his blood.

99% of all positively tested players have "conaminated food supplements" or other excuses like Agassi. You can't possibily believe all of them?

So the problem is not that Canas was banned, the problem was that the ATP covered it up for three years, and that in Agassi's case they covered it up until now.
Agassi should've been punished, but not as severely as Canas (at least not for meth, he likely used PEDs).

NGM
10-30-2009, 12:15 AM
Dont you realize that Nadal reacted too strongly about Agassi case? It seems to me that he is afraid about something. He is suspected using drugs and he may want to prove he is clean like saint. Cheaters always have biggest mouth.

settolove
10-30-2009, 12:20 AM
^^^
Nadal only seems to complain about things that affect him badly or his friends... Isn't the appeal against the lenient sentence for his good friend Gasquet coming up soon? I wonder if Agassi's revelations are going to adversely affect that...

namelessone
10-30-2009, 01:26 AM
Man I "love" this whole meth thing and how it has turned into another Federer-Nadal thread. Just goes to show that this forum will be dead once they retire.

One thing I would really like to know is why recreational drugs deserve a ban by officials of a sport? The substances which should be banned are those who artificially increase your performance,thus making you a cheater. Are you seriously telling me that coke,meth,cannabis and other **** will make you a better tennis player or will give you some kind of physical edge over your opponents? I think it's quite the opposite.

You can snort coke from a Madrid ballgirl's **** and somehow I doubt you will finish the set standing,let alone put up a great performance. Agassi's meth using year was his worst. Gasquet on coke didn't exactly rule tennis. So how is this an issue? PED's,EPO,other steroids are the things ATP should be looking for,not bongs,meth and all that other crap. I remember reading an article about someone inside the tennis world who said that cocaine was pretty much common place around the tour. So how the hell is this still an issue?

I remember one of Nastase's interviews when he was having a party/barbecue(can't remember now) in Romania,and one of his south american friends(I think it was Vilas) had some coke on him and Nastase panicked and told him to put that away because if anybody saw you with that in those days in communist Romania,they would put you in jail for good.

And don't give me the "it's a bad example for kids" BS that everyone puts up. Once your kids will learn that there are no living saints in tennis they will have a much more realistic view of the world around them,not just sport. Here's the real deal,people have sex,do drugs,smoke,drink and so on. They are people and they are prone to mistakes(I'm not counting sex as a mistake though:):) ). And I also don't buy the "tennis is a product and by showing up not at your best(being coked up for example) you are disgracing the tournament in which you are playing in and your fellow tennis players". Those drugged up players(as in recreational drugs) will be lucky to make it past the first rounds,let alone win something. The ATP shouldn't ban them,they go on court and play tennis. That's it. However the guys who market that guy's image/brand should be very ****ed when something like this comes out because they are selling an image and anything that contradicts that will have meant that their effort was in vain.

I,player x,am a tennis player. My job is to attend the mandatory ATP tournaments,ehave towards my fellow player,officials,not get involved in crap which will affect the integrity of my spot(like doping,gambling mafia and so on) and try to do my best. I am not required to be a saint or to avoid doing things in my personal life just because someone doesn't agree with me on that particular manner. Borg,the iceman,a very respected individual in the sport of tennis,binged on *****s and coke towards the end of the career. McEnroe admitted to using freaking steroids but he never got the backlash like Agassi did even though he actually used **** that improved his performance,thus making him a cheater. And remember,McEnroe played "the beautiful game" as many called it so he presumably wouldn't have had the need to cheat. But McEnroe got off the hook because he said he took them unknowingly.

I don't think Agassi deserved a ban in 97',just like I don't think Gasquet deserved a ban. These are not performance enhacing substances no matter how we look at it. They are the ugly truth about how some sport heroes destroy their personal lives and nothing more. This takes nothing away from Agassi's sporting legacy for me. If he had doped that would have sucked and it would have been a whole other discussion,but since it was a recreational drug I couldn't care less.

Although I don't agree about what is seen as illegal substances by the ATP the shocker is that the ATP covered for Agassi. I have seen many people outraged by Aggasi's actions,but not that many outraged by the ATP's cover-up. For me it's a pretty empty subject because they had nothing to cover-up IMO meth being a recreational drug but the fact that they would do this doesn't put them in a favourable light at all. I say change the system. Allow players to do what the hell they want as long as they don't ingest banned substances(but banned because they increase performance not because they destroy people who take them) and are respectful towards their peers and the governing bodies of the sport.

P_Agony
10-30-2009, 01:36 AM
Irrelevant...

James, I really like you as a poster, but damn that avatar scared me...:-|

P_Agony
10-30-2009, 01:40 AM
You crack me up, as always.

You should ask sureshs if he/she thinks winning 18 slams and being the undisputed GOAT is a sign of greatness...;-)

Rob_C
10-30-2009, 02:55 AM
As usual Fed is all diplomatic BS, and the honest lad from Mallorca speaks the truth from his heart. Agassi's revelation was meant to embarrass the ATP. It could be out of spite for the way his puppet, Perry Rogers, was kicked out of the Player's Council, or he may have some issues with others during his time.

Agassi and Rogers are on bad terms right now. There was a recent lawsuit against Agassi, by Rogers, which was kind of the straw that broke the camels back.

sureshs
10-30-2009, 04:28 AM
You crack me up, as always.

Or, as Andre would say, "You meth me up, as always."

sureshs
10-30-2009, 04:30 AM
Agassi and Rogers are on bad terms right now. There was a recent lawsuit against Agassi, by Rogers, which was kind of the straw that broke the camels back.

I know about that. The lawsuit is actually against Steffi. From what I have read, the guys are friends but the wife is the cause for the lawsuit, and so Andre goes along. It is a small amount - 50K - so it is really about something else I feel.

sureshs
10-30-2009, 04:32 AM
Dont you realize that Nadal reacted too strongly about Agassi case? It seems to me that he is afraid about something. He is suspected using drugs and he may want to prove he is clean like saint. Cheaters always have biggest mouth.

No, he is just honest. Martina has come out (oops not the right term) and criticized Agassi much more harshly.

It is the quiet diplomatic guys who have the most to hide.

Rataplan
10-30-2009, 04:34 AM
Nadal can't speak a single coherent sentence in English and so whatever he speaks comes "straight from heart".
He made this particular statement in Spanish so his English (and he can say a coherent sentence in English these days) doesn't really matter when discussing this quote.

Cesc Fabregas
10-30-2009, 04:47 AM
Isn't it funny how Nadal defends Gasquet and Michael Phelps for recreation drug use yet he torches Agassi for admitting that he used a recreational drug?

Your hatred for Nadal is clouding your judgement, Gasquet was found to have cocaine in his system and was then hung out to dry by the ATP and ITF, Agassi's was covered up by himself and the authorites and he has come out with over 10 years later to try and sell his book. Totally different situations.

Rataplan
10-30-2009, 04:50 AM
As I see it, Rafa's and Martina's protest is more about the ATP covering this one up while others had the spotlights turned on them. If you set up rules, either treat all the players the same way or don't bother with rules at all.

Gasquet's cocaine use was announced, there was no attempt at cover up. We may not agree on how it was dealt with and whether Gasquet's explanation was credible but it came out.
Hingis, same thing: it was not covered up but clearly announced.
Agassi's meth use was not made public at all.

Gasquet and Hingis had no choice in the matter. Agassi's meth use could have been kept a secret if it weren't for this book.

CyBorg
10-30-2009, 04:55 AM
Nadal's concerns are reasonable, but the ATP has made its bed and the truth should come out.

NamRanger
10-30-2009, 05:39 AM
No, when you use those substances correctly the left amount in the blood is so small that it can't be detected in tests. Canas probably messed up with the dosage or timing which left a slightly too high amount of them in his blood.

99% of all positively tested players have "conaminated food supplements" or other excuses like Agassi. You can't possibily believe all of them?

So the problem is not that Canas was banned, the problem was that the ATP covered it up for three years, and that in Agassi's case they covered it up until now.
Agassi should've been punished, but not as severely as Canas (at least not for meth, he likely used PEDs).



Canas however did prove that his prescription was given to him by an ATP doctor, so his story is believable. Things like Gasquet and Rusedski are totally bogus though.

EKnee08
10-30-2009, 06:44 AM
From Yahoo Sport,

" Agassi, now 39, spoke of the moment he took crystal meth, a highly-addictive amphetamine, for the first time when his career was in free-fall. He was helped by his drug-user assistant, known as Slim."

An extract from The Times,


"Slim dumps a small pile of powder on the coffee table. He cuts it, snorts it. He cuts it again. I snort some. I ease back on the couch and consider the Rubicon I've just crossed," said Agassi.

"There is a moment of regret, followed by vast sadness. Then comes a tidal wave of euphoria that sweeps away every negative thought in my head. I've never felt so alive, so hopeful -- and I've never felt such energy."

His career was in decline before the drug abuse and surely his new found feelings of euphoria, energy and hope didn't detract from his performance.

When he made the decision to lie his way out of it, he became a 'cheater'.

"lying" and "cheating" are two different things. It could be that Rafa has trouble with the meaning or syntax of certain words in the English language but the words mean different things.

mandy01
10-30-2009, 06:56 AM
Your hatred for Nadal is clouding your judgement, Gasquet was found to have cocaine in his system and was then hung out to dry by the ATP and ITF, Agassi's was covered up by himself and the authorites and he has come out with over 10 years later to try and sell his book. Totally different situations.
Gasquet's story is hardly believable and still he was declared innocent.Who is to say the ATP didnt believe as much of Agassi especially considering how important a star he was?
To put it simply-The ATP and ITF dont seem to be having well-defined grounds for banning a player.
And really,Gasquet's story isnt far off from Agassi's.
What the ATP went wrong in was that they covered up the fact that Agassi had failed the tests.This is where the 'reputation' kicked in.

jwbarrientos
10-30-2009, 06:58 AM
I appreciate more Rafa's words than Roger's walk around.

feetofclay
10-30-2009, 07:27 AM
"lying" and "cheating" are two different things. It could be that Rafa has trouble with the meaning or syntax of certain words in the English language but the words mean different things.

Nothing to do with Rafa's understanding here. It was my personal opinion that when you are prepared to deliberately make false statements with the intention of deceiving then you are infact a cheat.

Definition of cheat from the Chambers Concise Dictionary - a fraud: a deception: : one who cheats. v.t. deceive, defraud. v.i. to practise deceit.

mandy01
10-30-2009, 07:31 AM
Nothing to do with Rafa's understanding here. It was my personal opinion that when you are prepared to deliberately make false statements with the intention of deceiving then you are infact a cheat.

Definition of cheat from the Chambers Concise Dictionary - a fraud: a deception: : one who cheats. v.t. deceive, defraud. v.i. to practise deceit. Everyone who makes a false statement usually does it deliberately .And everyone lies.Now get off your high horse.
None of us really knows what Andre went through himself.
Not everyone one of us is blessed with a favourable environment that helps us to be stable as an individual.
Andre still came out of it to become a better individual and has done some really good things in his life.

feetofclay
10-30-2009, 07:57 AM
Everyone who makes a false statement usually does it deliberately .And everyone lies.Now get off your high horse.
None of us really knows what Andre went through himself.
Not everyone one of us is blessed with a favourable environment that helps us to be stable as an individual.
Andre still came out of it to become a better individual and has done some really good things in his life.

For your information I was replying to a poster who thought that I was attributing this opinion to Nadal. I was just stating that it was my own opinion, which I believe I am entitled to, just as you are.

"And really,Gasquet's story isnt far off from Agassi's." How so? Gasquet always declared his innocence, whilst Agassis was prepared to blame someone else, when in fact he had made the decision to snort drugs.

mandy01
10-30-2009, 08:03 AM
"And really,Gasquet's story isnt far off from Agassi's." How so? Gasquet always declared his innocence, whilst Agassis was prepared to blame someone else, when in fact he had made the decision to snort drugs. declaring innocence dosent make you innocent.His story is far from believable and he still got off.

kingdaddy41788
10-30-2009, 08:17 AM
Where does all this anti-agassi sentiment come from??

vive le beau jeu !
10-30-2009, 08:19 AM
Strange how Federer feels the need to be protective towards Agassi. He didn't feel that way about Canas.

Interview after his loss to Canas Indian Wells 2007

Give me some thoughts when he was suspended for 15 months, whether he'd ever come back again? Are you kind of surprised he's been able to do what he's done?

ROGER FEDERER: Well, you know, I'm really -- I don't know how the whole process of how something like that happens. They always fight for it anyway, everybody that was tested positive, you know. That's, for me, just not understandable, you know. Everybody who gets caught always says, "I didn't do anything," so...
It's just not right, you know.
It depends on how long the suspension is. In the end, they always cut them short, you know. So I'm definitely not surprised to see him back, you know.
both situations are totally different:
- not saying he was right to say something or not, but he just doubted about canas' version, and this was about a performance enhancing drug
- he is reacting to agassi's confession about the use of some recreationnal drug

I actually disagree with Rafa on one point.
:)
If that's what actuallly happened, Agassi is 100% right to be candid about it. There is 0 point to an autobiography in which you would dissimulate or lie about such crucial events in your life and career. I liked what Fed says about him hoping it will do Agassi good to come clean with this stuff as well as with his destructive relationship with his father. This kind of honesty is what makes autobiographies worthwhile for both author and readers. If you're not gonna be honest, why bother? (other than making money naturally :???:) Whether this account is detrimental to the sport or not is completely irrelevant IMO. Whatever is the truth should be coming out period.
yes and the evil nadal, of course, is making the apologia of lying.
how surprising... :rolleyes:

amx13
10-30-2009, 08:25 AM
I dont get Nadal. For him, taking crystal meth is cheating, but taking cocaine (Gasquet) is not?

sureshs
10-30-2009, 08:29 AM
I dont get Nadal. For him, taking crystal meth is cheating, but taking cocaine (Gasquet) is not?

Gasquet's test showed a very very faint trace, which could be explained by that bizarre explanation. He did not take cocaine, for the Nth time. Agassi took crystal meth, and in enough amount to be caught with the tests of 12 years ago.

Nadal is just sticking to the facts, unlike some posters here.

mandy01
10-30-2009, 08:32 AM
Gasquet's test showed a very very faint trace, which could be explained by that bizarre explanation. He did not take cocaine, for the Nth time. Agassi took crystal meth, and in enough amount to be caught with the tests of 12 years ago.

Nadal is just sticking to the facts, unlike some posters here. Faint or not he had taken it.His story is still far from believable.

Gorecki
10-30-2009, 08:32 AM
Where does all this anti-agassi sentiment come from??

apparently he did a few things wrong, and since we are living mcarthism days around here...

edmondsm
10-30-2009, 08:42 AM
What the hell is Nadal talking about? Man, get that kid some ESL classes or get the microphone out of his face. It would be much better if he just spoke Spanish and then I typed his quote into an online translator. As poor as those online translators are, it would be more coherent then that babble.

I can't believe that Nadal has the nerve to pass judgment like that. People make mistakes, use drugs, this is life. Nadal is obviously very naive. I think in 10 years he will regret making those comments. Is it possible that he felt he had to deride Agassi for using drugs because of the past accusations of Nadal's doping?

It is plain as day who is older and more mature here. Federer shows that he can see the large picture, while Nadal, well, sounds like a clueless little boy who has never seen the world for what it really is.

sureshs
10-30-2009, 08:53 AM
No, Nadal speaks the truth while Fed has calculated he might need Agassi's support for post-retirement activities. You know, share a Netjet, open a tennis resort in Vegas, that sort of thing. Nadal doesn't care about these things - only about whipping Agassi and Fed asses on the court, which he has done very well. He comes from a secure family background (at least till recently) and not a dysfunctional one like the Agassis.

Contrary to what you may think, doing drugs is not cool and is not a "phase" in everyone's life. It is a sign of cowardice and weakness and should not be glorified. It shows mental instability, often arising from poor upbringing.

Cesc Fabregas
10-30-2009, 08:57 AM
What the hell is Nadal talking about? Man, get that kid some ESL classes or get the microphone out of his face. It would be much better if he just spoke Spanish and then I typed his quote into an online translator. As poor as those online translators are, it would be more coherent then that babble.

I can't believe that Nadal has the nerve to pass judgment like that. People make mistakes, use drugs, this is life. Nadal is obviously very naive. I think in 10 years he will regret making those comments. Is it possible that he felt he had to deride Agassi for using drugs because of the past accusations of Nadal's doping?

It is plain as day who is older and more mature here. Federer shows that he can see the large picture, while Nadal, well, sounds like a clueless little boy who has never seen the world for what it really is.

What? Agassi did drugs lied about it, and has admitted over 10 years later to help sell his new book, which has put a black hole over tennis. Nadal has every bloody right to question why Agassi has said this.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 08:59 AM
My theory: Nadal is questioning Agassis behaviour to take focus off of himself.
Oh yeah!! :twisted:
btw, he is a punk, he has no rights at all questioning a living legend like Agassi.

Wakenslam
10-30-2009, 09:04 AM
Agreed. I think Nadal can be funny at times, but...

"I think we have a clean sport and I am one who it want it to be, though I disagree with forms."

Give me a break buddy. A clean sport? heh

crystal_clear
10-30-2009, 09:06 AM
Contrary to what you may think, doing drugs is not cool and is not a "phase" in everyone's life. It is a sign of cowardice and weakness and should not be glorified. It shows mental instability, often arising from poor upbringing.

Agreed on this~

Addictives reveals someone's emotional problems.

jwbarrientos
10-30-2009, 09:07 AM
Canas however did prove that his prescription was given to him by an ATP doctor, so his story is believable. Things like Gasquet and Rusedski are totally bogus though.

Was that ATP doc who said "off the record" if you were Andre, you would never be banned :twisted:

What makes me mad is that many players innocent or not were banned, I also remember when Cañas was not allowed to enter to US Open to watch his girlfriend (WTA player) and all those years Andre was considered a hero.

ATP must say something serious about this.

edmondsm
10-30-2009, 09:16 AM
What? Agassi did drugs lied about it, and has admitted over 10 years later to help sell his new book, which has put a black hole over tennis. Nadal has every bloody right to question why Agassi has said this.

A "black hole over tennis". What do mean? How is it a negative thing when an athlete points out holes in the drug testing policy of a sporting organization? His intentions are meaningless, just like when Jose Canseco called out MLB. As big a scumbag as Canseco is, he still put a spotlight on a dirty sport, which is always a good thing. Sure it's a money making tool, who cares. Agassi is still human, just like he was when he used meth. But to say that his omission is anything but a positive for the sport is just asinine. You want a clean sport, don't you? Well then why would you want retired athletes to keep quiet about how they got around drug testing????

Gorecki
10-30-2009, 09:17 AM
Contrary to what you may think, doing drugs is not cool and is not a "phase" in everyone's life. It is a sign of cowardice and weakness and should not be glorified. It shows mental instability, often arising from poor upbringing.

i see.. so you think it's ok to take blows at a person with emotional problems...

nice!

hopefully you are not a teacher...

amx13
10-30-2009, 09:20 AM
No, Nadal speaks the truth while Fed has calculated he might need Agassi's support for post-retirement activities. You know, share a Netjet, open a tennis resort in Vegas, that sort of thing. Nadal doesn't care about these things - only about whipping Agassi and Fed asses on the court, which he has done very well. He comes from a secure family background (at least till recently) and not a dysfunctional one like the Agassis.

Contrary to what you may think, doing drugs is not cool and is not a "phase" in everyone's life. It is a sign of cowardice and weakness and should not be glorified. It shows mental instability, often arising from poor upbringing.

I havent read anyone saying doing drugs is "cool", an no one has "glorified" Agassi´s crystal meth use. I do think its very brave from him to come out and speak of such things...he might as well keep quiet about it and no one would have ever knew about it.

Problem with Nadal is that he is way to quick on lashing out judgement and asking for punishment. I have no idea what Agassi went through those years, neither does Nadal.

sureshs
10-30-2009, 09:22 AM
i see.. so you think it's ok to take blows at a person with emotional problems...

nice!

hopefully you are not a teacher...

No, I don't think it is OK. But I think this is really not the case of the mentally ill homeless man hanging near the gas station. That guy will not write a book and time the leaks to maximize the money. Sorry, I am not buying the Agassi as victim line of thought. The same guys would be screaming for "law enforcement" and "zero tolerance" if this was a different guy, of a different demographic, for example.

sureshs
10-30-2009, 09:23 AM
I havent read anyone saying doing drugs is "cool", an no one has "glorified" Agassi´s crystal meth use. I do think its very brave from him to come out and speak of such things...he might as well keep quiet about it and no one would have ever knew about it.

Problem with Nadal is that he is way to quick on lashing out judgement and asking for punishment. I have no idea what Agassi went through those years, neither does Nadal.

You don't follow - it is not about what Agassi did in those years, it is about what he has done now.

Gorecki
10-30-2009, 09:23 AM
No, I don't think it is OK. But I think this is really not the case of the mentally ill homeless man hanging near the gas station. That guy will not write a book and time the leaks to maximize the money. Sorry, I am not buying the Agassi as victim line of thought. The same guys would be screaming for "law enforcement" and "zero tolerance" if this was a different guy, of a different demographic, for example.

im not sure but did you just pull the race card?

pathetic to say the least...

edmondsm
10-30-2009, 09:24 AM
No, Nadal speaks the truth while Fed has calculated he might need Agassi's support for post-retirement activities. You know, share a Netjet, open a tennis resort in Vegas, that sort of thing. Nadal doesn't care about these things - only about whipping Agassi and Fed asses on the court, which he has done very well. He comes from a secure family background (at least till recently) and not a dysfunctional one like the Agassis.

Wow, another Nadal fan that can see into the brains of athletes. I am amazed that you guys have this ability. Is that how you could tell Nadal was going to win the 2009 USO.....:-?


Contrary to what you may think, doing drugs is not cool and is not a "phase" in everyone's life. It is a sign of cowardice and weakness and should not be glorified. It shows mental instability, often arising from poor upbringing.

I don't know how Agassi is glorifying drug use. I do know that ignorant judgmental people are often the product of a poor upbringing.

Cesc Fabregas
10-30-2009, 09:27 AM
I gurantee if this wasn't Agassi people would be critising him, please people use the same standards for everyone.

edmondsm
10-30-2009, 09:28 AM
No, I don't think it is OK. But I think this is really not the case of the mentally ill homeless man hanging near the gas station. That guy will not write a book and time the leaks to maximize the money. Sorry, I am not buying the Agassi as victim line of thought. The same guys would be screaming for "law enforcement" and "zero tolerance" if this was a different guy, of a different demographic, for example.

As incoherent as you are, I think I hear you saying that people would want to throw a homeless person into prison for admitting to using drugs 10 years ago. Yeah, good point.:-?

You don't follow - it is not about what Agassi did in those years, it is about what he has done now.

What has he done now? Got something off his chest, pointed out flaws in the ATP, made a little money. These are negatives?

Gorecki
10-30-2009, 09:29 AM
I gurantee if this wasn't Agassi people would be critising him, please people use the same standards for everyone.

you are the only guy i know that contradicts himself in the same sentence...

edmondsm
10-30-2009, 09:30 AM
I gurantee if this wasn't Agassi people would be critising him, please people use the same standards for everyone.

People are criticizing him. What are you doing right now?

sureshs
10-30-2009, 09:31 AM
As incoherent as you are, I think I hear you saying that people would want to throw a homeless person into prison for admitting to using drugs 10 years ago. Yeah, good point.:-?



What has he done now? Got something off his chest, pointed out flaws in the ATP, made a little money. These are negatives?

You sound as if someone wants to arrest him now.

He writes the book, participates in the leaks, points fingers at others thru himself - he is inviting people to read and comment. So what is the harm in commenting (since I will not spend money on the book)?

mandy01
10-30-2009, 09:32 AM
No, I don't think it is OK. But I think this is really not the case of the mentally ill homeless man hanging near the gas station. That guy will not write a book and time the leaks to maximize the money. Sorry, I am not buying the Agassi as victim line of thought. The same guys would be screaming for "law enforcement" and "zero tolerance" if this was a different guy, of a different demographic, for example.
One simply cannot condone what Agassi did.No ones saying it wasnt wrong.
But really ,he's taken it like once.I hate to think how rampant the use of recreational drugs would've been in the 80s when even today quite a few people are resorting to it.
So compared to that Agassi's was nothing..especially considering he had a rough childhood.He could've gone off way worse and the pressures of such a high level competition can only make matters worse.
Its not so much the fact that he took it but the fact that ATP shamelessly covered up for it.
And really,Andre was a superstar..his book would've gained a huge response anyway.People love him so much that most were going to buy it anyway.

drakulie
10-30-2009, 09:37 AM
What the hell is Nadal talking about? Man, get that kid some ESL classes or get the microphone out of his face. It would be much better if he just spoke Spanish and then I typed his quote into an online translator. As poor as those online translators are, it would be more coherent then that babble.

I can't believe that Nadal has the nerve to pass judgment like that. People make mistakes, use drugs, this is life. Nadal is obviously very naive. I think in 10 years he will regret making those comments. Is it possible that he felt he had to deride Agassi for using drugs because of the past accusations of Nadal's doping?

It is plain as day who is older and more mature here. Federer shows that he can see the large picture, while Nadal, well, sounds like a clueless little boy who has never seen the world for what it really is.


agreed.

Curiously, he supports Gasquet, and condemns, Agassi, while he continues to lie about his involvment with EPO/The Spanish Doctor/ and the issues surrounding why the "List" has never been revealed to the public.

Why isn't he attacking the Spanish Government for not releasing the list of athletes who were using EPO?? (cyclist/soccer players/TENNIS PLAYERS)

amx13
10-30-2009, 09:55 AM
Im not sure, but wasnt Nadal the one that reacted against the ATP for wanting to change the drug testing rules a few months ago?

drakulie
10-30-2009, 09:58 AM
^^He is always complaining about the testing policy, and procedure.

ksbh
10-30-2009, 10:00 AM
I can't blame Agassi for the ACP's failure to enforce the rules.

However, it's laughable that some are claiming Agassi made the confession to come clean. Funny how he decided to come clean just at the time of releasing his book! He is one smart cookie!

djones
10-30-2009, 10:06 AM
What exactly has taking meth to do with tennis?

Nothing.
And that's why people should just shut their mouths regarding these issues.

mandy01
10-30-2009, 10:17 AM
I can't blame Agassi for the ACP's failure to enforce the rules.

However, it's laughable that some are claiming Agassi made the confession to come clean. Funny how he decided to come clean just at the time of releasing his book! He is one smart cookie!
confessing to the media- persons directly would've been harder IMO.Anyway,there's really nothing too surprising about his confession..just that the ATP officials were being asses ,thats it.

ksbh
10-30-2009, 10:28 AM
Yes, I agree that the ACP officials are being 'asses' and I'm glad Agassi is exposing them for the jokers that they are.

But Andre is no saint either and let's not pretend he is. He found the smartest way to promote his book and I can't fault him for that!

confessing to the media- persons directly would've been harder IMO.Anyway,there's really nothing too surprising about his confession..just that the ATP officials were being asses ,thats it.

kishnabe
10-30-2009, 10:35 AM
Agassi did the right thing and I believe millions of people will download his eBook just to have a better flaming war on his life. Crystal Meth and Tennis were not related. He didn't use it in his matches and it did not enhance his ablilities.

srinrajesh
10-30-2009, 10:50 AM
Strange how Federer feels the need to be protective towards Agassi. He didn't feel that way about Canas.

Interview after his loss to Canas Indian Wells 2007

Give me some thoughts when he was suspended for 15 months, whether he'd ever come back again? Are you kind of surprised he's been able to do what he's done?

ROGER FEDERER: Well, you know, I'm really -- I don't know how the whole process of how something like that happens. They always fight for it anyway, everybody that was tested positive, you know. That's, for me, just not understandable, you know. Everybody who gets caught always says, "I didn't do anything," so...
It's just not right, you know.
It depends on how long the suspension is. In the end, they always cut them short, you know. So I'm definitely not surprised to see him back, you know.

only goes to show the double standards Federer has towards "great" players in the past and lesser stars...

Mick
10-30-2009, 10:51 AM
well, guys, agassi confessed when he knew there's nothing the atp could do to penalize him. it's fine that he confessed but there's nothing heroic about it.

Baikalic
10-30-2009, 10:52 AM
What the hell is Nadal talking about? Man, get that kid some ESL classes or get the microphone out of his face. It would be much better if he just spoke Spanish and then I typed his quote into an online translator. As poor as those online translators are, it would be more coherent then that babble.

I can't believe that Nadal has the nerve to pass judgment like that. People make mistakes, use drugs, this is life. Nadal is obviously very naive. I think in 10 years he will regret making those comments. Is it possible that he felt he had to deride Agassi for using drugs because of the past accusations of Nadal's doping?

It is plain as day who is older and more mature here. Federer shows that he can see the large picture, while Nadal, well, sounds like a clueless little boy who has never seen the world for what it really is.

Based on what I've read in this thread, it seems that all of the sources to Rafa's comments are translations from Spanish. Not that a translated version doesn't give one a gist of what he is saying, and I agree that his statement comes off as overly judgemental.

srinrajesh
10-30-2009, 11:00 AM
agreed.

Curiously, he supports Gasquet, and condemns, Agassi, while he continues to lie about his involvment with EPO/The Spanish Doctor/ and the issues surrounding why the "List" has never been revealed to the public.

Why isn't he attacking the Spanish Government for not releasing the list of athletes who were using EPO?? (cyclist/soccer players/TENNIS PLAYERS)

he never supported gasquet as such.. he only said he believed gasquet was telling the truth when he said he didnt take cocaine intentionally...

Also regarding agassi he only said "The cheaters must be punished and if Agassi was a cheater in his day should have been punished".. He didnt call agassi a cheater outright..
However i would say Agassi was definitely a cheater becos he lied about taking the drug to the ATP and avoided a minimum 3 month ban.

We wouldnt know how he could have coped with the ban and its mental factor. Maybe he would never have won so many grand slams or reached no.1ranking again. Its a disgrace to the tour that this high profile offender was let off.. like serena was at the USO

salsainglesa
10-30-2009, 11:06 AM
selfrightgeous and judgemental to the bone...
just as me writing this!
those basterds!

now with spelling edit!

NamRanger
10-30-2009, 11:44 AM
Yes, I agree that the ACP officials are being 'asses' and I'm glad Agassi is exposing them for the jokers that they are.

But Andre is no saint either and let's not pretend he is. He found the smartest way to promote his book and I can't fault him for that!



Yes, the intent behind it probably wasn't right, that doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do though. Everyonoe knows that Jose Canseco's intent in his book was to sell and make money. However, without that book, who knows how long steroids would have gone on in baseball.

Rataplan
10-30-2009, 12:04 PM
Gasquet's story is hardly believable and still he was declared innocent.Who is to say the ATP didnt believe as much of Agassi especially considering how important a star he was?
To put it simply-The ATP and ITF dont seem to be having well-defined grounds for banning a player.
And really,Gasquet's story isnt far off from Agassi's.
What the ATP went wrong in was that they covered up the fact that Agassi had failed the tests.This is where the 'reputation' kicked in.
The main issue is not really the recreational drugs but the way it came out.

Gasquet's cocaine use was made public, he was temporarily banned and he had to defend himself.
Hingis's cocaine use was made public as well and she received a 2 year ban.
Agassi's meth use was covered up.

So, in that sense, it's two different ways of dealing with a similar situation.

As far as the rest when talking about Nadal and doping: this forum is so much into a Nadal bashing mode with just a few defenders who get bashed for it as well and a couple of other posters who are reasonable. It's unreal.
However, a lot of posters are selling fiction as fact: he was injured this year and there's medical proof for it, there's no proof that he was told to stop playing tennis for a bit as some sort of secret ban this year and it's just a ludicrous theory from haters, there's no proof that he has been tested positive,... the list goes on and on.
The so-called Fuentes list: this was not only denied by the Spanish authorities but also by international authorities (not linked with tennis). It was clearly stated that Nadal was not on the list. I don't care one bit that it was written about in the media or that some posters here claim to know a person who knows a person who has inside info in an effort to come across as believable. It's fiction.

That's not saying that Nadal is 100% clean but let's wait until we have FACTS before nailing him to the cross...no, wait, that would be spoiling the "let's bash the hell out of Nadal" fest.


Personally, I think that the tennis authorities should only penalize performance improving doping and leave the punishment of recreational drugs over to the usual authorities who deal with that.

NamRanger
10-30-2009, 12:23 PM
The main issue is not really the recreational drugs but the way it came out.

Gasquet's cocaine use was made public, he was temporarily banned and he had to defend himself.
Hingis's cocaine use was made public as well and she received a 2 year ban.
Agassi's meth use was covered up.

So, in that sense, it's two different ways of dealing with a similar situation.

As far as the rest when talking about Nadal and doping: this forum is so much into a Nadal bashing mode with just a few defenders who get bashed for it as well and a couple of other posters who are reasonable. It's unreal.
However, a lot of posters are selling fiction as fact: he was injured this year and there's medical proof for it, there's no proof that he was told to stop playing tennis for a bit as some sort of secret ban this year and it's just a ludicrous theory from haters, there's no proof that he has been tested positive,... the list goes on and on.
The so-called Fuentes list: this was not only denied by the Spanish authorities but also by international authorities (not linked with tennis). It was clearly stated that Nadal was not on the list. I don't care one bit that it was written about in the media or that some posters here claim to know a person who knows a person who has inside info in an effort to come across as believable. It's fiction.

That's not saying that Nadal is 100% clean but let's wait until we have FACTS before nailing him to the cross...no, wait, that would be spoiling the "let's bash the hell out of Nadal" fest.


Personally, I think that the tennis authorities should only penalize performance improving doping and leave the punishment of recreational drugs over to the usual authorities who deal with that.




How is it fiction when Fuentes himself admits to helping tennis players? How is it fiction when the list is never released? How come only 40-50 names have been released from a list of 200+? Don't be naive, they are not showing anything because Nadal's name is obviously on that list.

ohplease
10-30-2009, 12:35 PM
The main issue is not really the recreational drugs but the way it came out.

Gasquet's cocaine use was made public, he was temporarily banned and he had to defend himself.
Hingis's cocaine use was made public as well and she received a 2 year ban.
Agassi's meth use was covered up.

The independent body used by the ATP responsible for drug testing didn't do what they were supposed to do. It's not like Andre said "what are you guys going to do? I'm Andre Agassi." It's not like the ATP said "hide the bodies - this is Andre we're talking about." There's no conspiracy, here.

And, in fact, even if there was the worst kind of conspiracy, with both the ATP and Andre cackling diabolically while doing both the drugs and the cover-up, I say who cares. Why? 1) This was recreational drug use and shouldn't be subject to testing in the first place. It's just not our business. 2) On balance, letting Andre slide had real, tangible positive effects on both his philanthropic efforts and the people those efforts have helped.

The world isn't a fair place. Andre wasn't (and isn't) subject to the same treatment as Hingis or Gasquet - but those two haven't had the same positive effect on tennis and the world outside of tennis, either.

NamRanger
10-30-2009, 12:36 PM
The independent body used by the ATP responsible for drug testing didn't do what they were supposed to do. It's not like Andre said "what are you guys going to do? I'm Andre Agassi." It's not like the ATP said "hide the bodies - this is Andre we're talking about." There's no conspiracy, here.

And, in fact, even if there was the worst kind of conspiracy, with both the ATP and Andre cackling diabolically while doing both the drugs and the cover-up, I say who cares. Why? 1) This was recreational drug use and shouldn't be subject to testing in the first place. It's just not our business. 2) On balance, letting Andre slide had real, tangible positive effects on both his philanthropic efforts and the people those efforts have helped.

The world isn't a fair place. Andre wasn't (and isn't) subject to the same treatment as Hingis or Gasquet - but those two haven't had the same positive effect on tennis and the world outside of tennis, either.




Are you serious? Do you think the world #532 could have pulled what Andre did? You have got to be kidding me.

sureshs
10-30-2009, 01:27 PM
only goes to show the double standards Federer has towards "great" players in the past and lesser stars...

The reasons are ego, and the desire to hang with the rich and famous.

I see that a whole slew of US names are lining up behind Agassi, including Roddick and Mary Jo Fernandes. You have no post-tennis career in the US if you antagonize Agassi or the McEnroes. Again, the only person with balls is Navratilova.

sureshs
10-30-2009, 01:30 PM
The independent body used by the ATP responsible for drug testing didn't do what they were supposed to do. It's not like Andre said "what are you guys going to do? I'm Andre Agassi." It's not like the ATP said "hide the bodies - this is Andre we're talking about." There's no conspiracy, here.

And, in fact, even if there was the worst kind of conspiracy, with both the ATP and Andre cackling diabolically while doing both the drugs and the cover-up, I say who cares. Why? 1) This was recreational drug use and shouldn't be subject to testing in the first place. It's just not our business. 2) On balance, letting Andre slide had real, tangible positive effects on both his philanthropic efforts and the people those efforts have helped.

The world isn't a fair place. Andre wasn't (and isn't) subject to the same treatment as Hingis or Gasquet - but those two haven't had the same positive effect on tennis and the world outside of tennis, either.

You nailed it. The conspiracy theorists who are trying to link this with Nadal don't realize that 1997 was eons ago in scientific terms, the suspension was only for 3 months in any case, and the rigid zero-tolerance policies of today were just being crafted. Just like people, societies and associations also grow and learn. The pendulum swings way to one side, and then back to the other.

veroniquem
10-30-2009, 01:56 PM
I can't blame Agassi for the ACP's failure to enforce the rules.

However, it's laughable that some are claiming Agassi made the confession to come clean. Funny how he decided to come clean just at the time of releasing his book! He is one smart cookie!


He's not coming clean at the time of releasing his book. He's coming clean IN his book. What's so hard to understand about that?

sureshs
10-30-2009, 01:57 PM
He's not coming clean at the time of releasing his book. He's coming clean IN his book. What's so hard to understand about that?

No, he came clean before the book was released thru leaks.

Bud
10-30-2009, 02:02 PM
No, he came clean before the book was released thru leaks.

Intentional leaks to generate interest and increased sales :)

35ft6
10-30-2009, 02:06 PM
^ Come on, he's obviously coming clean for personal reasons. Agassi needs book sale royalties like Bill Gates needs to return empties.

Placed the book on hold.

Bhagi Katbamna
10-30-2009, 02:07 PM
No, he came clean before the book was released thru leaks.

Not leaks. Agassi sold rights to excerpts from his books. He's making money off of the "leaks" too.

zagor
10-30-2009, 02:24 PM
only goes to show the double standards Federer has towards "great" players in the past and lesser stars...

You do realize there's a world of difference between using recreational drug that doesn't enhance your performance on court and doping? Agassi's and Canas's cases aren't comparable at all here.

sureshs
10-30-2009, 02:50 PM
^ Come on, he's obviously coming clean for personal reasons. Agassi needs book sale royalties like Bill Gates needs to return empties.

Placed the book on hold.

That is not how it works. The publishers need the money. They expect him to help them.

sureshs
10-30-2009, 02:52 PM
Not leaks. Agassi sold rights to excerpts from his books. He's making money off of the "leaks" too.

And people say he does not care about money.

There is no such thing as enough money. It is only a concept which the middle class use to brighten their pathetic existence.

IvanisevicServe
10-30-2009, 03:40 PM
Federer just didn't want to offend Agassi. After all, he's the one who presented him with the French Open trophy.

TheTruth
10-30-2009, 06:02 PM
The reasons are ego, and the desire to hang with the rich and famous.

I see that a whole slew of US names are lining up behind Agassi, including Roddick and Mary Jo Fernandes. You have no post-tennis career in the US if you antagonize Agassi or the McEnroes. Again, the only person with balls is Navratilova.

This statement is as clear as rain.

Also, makes me give props to Martina and Nadal for not colluding. Punish this one, not that one, just ain't right!

TheTruth
10-30-2009, 06:07 PM
What? Agassi did drugs lied about it, and has admitted over 10 years later to help sell his new book, which has put a black hole over tennis. Nadal has every bloody right to question why Agassi has said this.

Exactly! I guess it falls under the "But I like him" category. To go along with the corrupt officials at the time, and then later on expose those who tried to salvage his legacy is pathetic. There's no honor here, folks.

And him building a school? How about a massive dose of guilt for all he's been able to get away with?

And JMac and crew? Guess they didn't know about any of this while they were constantly putting him up as a hero.

He lied.
The ATP is corrupt.
And those who tell the truth about the situation are the ones who should be crucified?

Not understanding the logic.

drakulie
10-30-2009, 06:59 PM
he never supported gasquet as such.. he only said he believed gasquet was telling the truth when he said he didnt take cocaine intentionally...

Try again. he supported him and continuously condemns the drug testing policy/procedure, and is extremely outspoken about it.

Also regarding agassi he only said "The cheaters must be punished and if Agassi was a cheater in his day should have been punished".. He didnt call agassi a cheater outright..

Really?? Then I suppose nadal feels he should be punished every time he CHEATS by violating the time rule?? which is like,,, every time he serves?? Right?? :roll:

However i would say Agassi was definitely a cheater becos he lied about taking the drug to the ATP and avoided a minimum 3 month ban.

Get your facts straight. The ATP caught him and decided to sweep it under the rug (same way they did with nadal this year at Wimbledon)

veroniquem
10-30-2009, 07:04 PM
No, he came clean before the book was released thru leaks.

The leaks are FROM the book. Don't start splitting hairs now. And it's other people who singled out that piece of info from the book, not Agassi himself.

veroniquem
10-30-2009, 07:07 PM
They caught Nadal at W with what: excruciating knee pain? That's illegal? :shock:

drakulie
10-30-2009, 07:08 PM
They caught Nadal at W with what: excruciating knee pain? That's illegal? :shock:


Uhmmmm, NO. He had no knee pain. If he did, he wouldn't have played 20+ matches with it, and wouldn't be practicing for DC a few days after withdrawing from Wimbledon.

veroniquem
10-30-2009, 07:09 PM
[QUOTE=TheTruth;4068342]Exactly! I guess it falls under the "But I like him" category. To go along with the corrupt officials at the time, and then later on expose those who tried to salvage his legacy is pathetic. There's no honor here, folks.

And him building a school? How about a massive dose of guilt for all he's been able to get away with?

And JMac and crew? Guess they didn't know about any of this while they were constantly putting him up as a hero.

He lied.
The ATP is corrupt.
And those who tell the truth about the situation are the ones who should be crucified?


I'm sorry but the only one telling the truth at the moment is Agassi. And unsurprisingly he's getting crucified for it.

veroniquem
10-30-2009, 07:12 PM
Uhmmmm, NO. He had no knee pain. If he did, he wouldn't have played 20+ matches with it, and wouldn't be practicing for DC a few days after withdrawing from Wimbledon.



What DC? He didn't play DC... God knows what you're on but it seems a little bit stronger than meth... hallucinogenic mushrooms perhaps? :)

drakulie
10-30-2009, 07:18 PM
What DC? He didn't play DC... God knows what you're on but it seems a little bit stronger than meth... hallucinogenic mushrooms perhaps? :)


Show me where I say he "played DC".

Looks like the one who is on something stronger than Meth is you.

veroniquem
10-30-2009, 07:24 PM
Show me where I say he "played DC".

Looks like the one who is on something stronger than Meth is you.



Why would you practise for something you're not playing big genius? Rafa didn't play for several weeks after W but yeah at some point he picked up a racket again. There's a huge difference between some gentle practice and competition matches.

drakulie
10-30-2009, 07:27 PM
Why would you practise for something you're not playing big genius?

Not sure. Why don't you ask Nadal why he played two exos on grass, which he claims he played to practice and "see where he was at" for Wimbledon, yet didn't play Wimbledon and defend his title.

Momo.

veroniquem
10-30-2009, 07:54 PM
And people say he does not care about money.

There is no such thing as enough money. It is only a concept which the middle class use to brighten their pathetic existence.



You know anyone in pro sport that doesn't care about money? :shock: No kidding :???:
Better make money with a gripping book than a boring one though.

veroniquem
10-30-2009, 08:02 PM
Not sure. Why don't you ask Nadal why he played two exos on grass, which he claims he played to practice and "see where he was at" for Wimbledon, yet didn't play Wimbledon and defend his title.

Momo.


Momo yourself. He skipped Queens to see if there was any way he could get some accelerated treatment on his knees that would enable him to play W. (he had about 3 weeks after the RG loss, so it was certainly worth a shot) He played a couple exhib matches a few days before W to see if it was a realistic option, didn't work, pulled out. If you have a problem with THAT logic, then you need brain treatment (surgery most likely :cry:)

drakulie
10-30-2009, 08:12 PM
Momo yourself. He skipped Queens to see if there was any way he could get some accelerated treatment on his knees that would enable him to play W. (he had about 3 weeks after the RG loss, so it was certainly worth a shot) He played a couple exhib matches a few days before W to see if it was a realistic option, didn't work, pulled out. If you have a problem with THAT logic, then you need brain treatment (surgery most likely :cry:)


uhmmm, he and his doctor had already stated he was injured as early as the beginning of the clay season. So the rest of your post is garbage.

fact is, he was never injured.


Oh, and BTW, using your same logic, then he withdrew from the DC match for the same reason, momo.

herosol
10-30-2009, 09:27 PM
i should take meth, probably make me a better tennis player....

:roll:

veroniquem
10-30-2009, 09:48 PM
uhmmm, he and his doctor had already stated he was injured as early as the beginning of the clay season. So the rest of your post is garbage.

fact is, he was never injured.


Oh, and BTW, using your same logic, then he withdrew from the DC match for the same reason, momo.



His doctor stated absolutely nothing until Queen's. Which tabloid do you get your info from? The daily inquirer?

AlpineCadet
10-30-2009, 09:57 PM
Agassi is still Alien-Head, who's married to Graf. Leave the guy alone, he's hating life itself.

Baikalic
10-30-2009, 11:19 PM
His doctor stated absolutely nothing until Queen's. Which tabloid do you get your info from? The daily inquirer?

Actually I think it was the Daily Prophet.

AlpineCadet
10-30-2009, 11:21 PM
http://www.tennisgrandstand.com/archives/5298

:(

TheTruth
10-31-2009, 12:18 AM
[QUOTE=TheTruth;4068342]Exactly! I guess it falls under the "But I like him" category. To go along with the corrupt officials at the time, and then later on expose those who tried to salvage his legacy is pathetic. There's no honor here, folks.

And him building a school? How about a massive dose of guilt for all he's been able to get away with?

And JMac and crew? Guess they didn't know about any of this while they were constantly putting him up as a hero.

He lied.
The ATP is corrupt.
And those who tell the truth about the situation are the ones who should be crucified?


I'm sorry but the only one telling the truth at the moment is Agassi. And unsurprisingly he's getting crucified for it.

But look at the timing. He's telling the truth when he can no longer be affected or punished for it. It comes at an opportunistic time, his book coming out. He went along with the ATP officials sweeping it under the rug and now comes out and backstabs them. Sorry, doesn't work for me.

mandy01
10-31-2009, 01:12 AM
The main issue is not really the recreational drugs but the way it came out.

Gasquet's cocaine use was made public, he was temporarily banned and he had to defend himself.
Hingis's cocaine use was made public as well and she received a 2 year ban.
Agassi's meth use was covered up.

So, in that sense, it's two different ways of dealing with a similar situation.

As far as the rest when talking about Nadal and doping: this forum is so much into a Nadal bashing mode with just a few defenders who get bashed for it as well and a couple of other posters who are reasonable. It's unreal.
However, a lot of posters are selling fiction as fact: he was injured this year and there's medical proof for it, there's no proof that he was told to stop playing tennis for a bit as some sort of secret ban this year and it's just a ludicrous theory from haters, there's no proof that he has been tested positive,... the list goes on and on.
The so-called Fuentes list: this was not only denied by the Spanish authorities but also by international authorities (not linked with tennis). It was clearly stated that Nadal was not on the list. I don't care one bit that it was written about in the media or that some posters here claim to know a person who knows a person who has inside info in an effort to come across as believable. It's fiction.

That's not saying that Nadal is 100% clean but let's wait until we have FACTS before nailing him to the cross...no, wait, that would be spoiling the "let's bash the hell out of Nadal" fest.


Personally, I think that the tennis authorities should only penalize performance improving doping and leave the punishment of recreational drugs over to the usual authorities who deal with that.
First of all I am not among those who believe Nadal was on roids or anything of that sort.I dont believe for one moment that Nadal would do such a thing.I have stated that before.
The rest of of your post-We agree on everything.The ATP basically covered up for their biggest star while others like Gasquet had to face temporary or permanent bans.
Now as to those who ask why Agassi didnt come clean before-How was he to do so?Speak to the media? Easier said than done.His autobiography was the easiest way to get it out.He also said himself that being honest before would mean putting on the line his whole career..he confessed to it..
Of course he cares about money which is why this news leaked in the first place..its created even more publicity for the book.
But if we come to think about it...quite a few people already suspected him of doing drugs and obviously they must've also had their doubts about the ATP's intergrity..overall none of this is a huge surprise.It is not something that dosent happen in sports..it still does.
There's no point chastising Andre NOW.

zambo
10-31-2009, 01:38 AM
momo.

Momo? What kind of insult is that!? Grow up please..

fedfan08
10-31-2009, 02:15 AM
Boris Becker has a lot to say:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/atptour/6461555/Boris-Becker-Im-struggling-to-understand-why-Andre-Agassi-wanted-to-confess.html

Rataplan
10-31-2009, 02:52 AM
How is it fiction when Fuentes himself admits to helping tennis players? How is it fiction when the list is never released? How come only 40-50 names have been released from a list of 200+? Don't be naive, they are not showing anything because Nadal's name is obviously on that list.
How is it fact when the list hasn't been published at all and all you have as evidence is "people who know people have said that..."? Because you saw it written in one newspaper? Oh please. You can prove anything with that tactic ("a source that shall remain anonymous has declared..."). It's a popular method used in tabloids.

However, Fuentes talking about "tennis players" is still not proof that it's Nadal. esp. not given the fact that - again - both the Spanish authorities and independent organisations have declared at the time when some article published it that Nadal did not feature on that list.

Maybe I'm naive but like I said, I'm not willing to bet all I have on the claim that Nadal or any other athlete, not even St. Roger Federer, is clean either. However, your "Nadal = doper" obsession is clouding your judgement big time.

Rataplan
10-31-2009, 03:02 AM
Uhmmmm, NO. He had no knee pain. If he did, he wouldn't have played 20+ matches with it, and wouldn't be practicing for DC a few days after withdrawing from Wimbledon.
drakulie, he had knee pain. Read some statement from highly respected doctors instead of mistaking your wishful thinking for fact.

He wasn't practicing for DC since he withdrew from that tie quite quickly. He wanted to play DC and they hoped that he would recover for it and he had some tests done, overseen by doctors, to check whether he was going to be ready and recovered enough for that DC tie or not. Perhaps that's the practicing you are referring to. However, those tests were not good enough so the doctors adviced him to not play that tie either.

You can play with knee pain. In fact, a lot of sport people will tell you that playing with pain is part of top sport. In Nadal's case, it was a matter of knowing when to stop to give the body some rest and when to continue to play because it's not an injury threatening problem.
Nadal didn't listen to his body (or to his uncle who urged him to not play in Madrid) and he payed a price for it.

jwbarrientos
10-31-2009, 04:21 AM
there are over 30,000 members on the TW message board.

I bet at least 10% have tried an illegal drug in their life.

They should be banned, avoiding using internet at all :twisted:

PS1: Some of them are arguably in drugs when they post, specially those who denies Roger is GOAT.

PS2: I am with Rafa this time, he made a solid statement, Roger ... you are #1 and should put in clear and understandable words what you thing, not thinking in business.

McBrat
10-31-2009, 04:33 AM
Boris Becker has a lot to say:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/atptour/6461555/Boris-Becker-Im-struggling-to-understand-why-Andre-Agassi-wanted-to-confess.htmlFrom link:Agassi took crystal meth with his assistant, Slim, who persuaded the 1992 Wimbledon champion that it would make him feel “like Superman, dude”; Becker said that he tried to avoid bad company during his years of playing professional tennis. Lol, maybe one of these days we'll find good ole Slim flying up there with balloon boy...:D

1970CRBase
10-31-2009, 04:59 AM
Boris Becker has a lot to say:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/atptour/6461555/Boris-Becker-Im-struggling-to-understand-why-Andre-Agassi-wanted-to-confess.html

"“I like the guy, I want that to be clear. I think he’s a character and he was a great competitor. We had some close matches. He’s become a great man. He’s a great father, and he has put a lot of time and money into his community in Las Vegas. But his revelations are bound to change how people see him,” Becker said."



You have to first get behind somebody to stab them in their back.

Time to avenge one's deeply wounded pride at having been owned again and again by one's rival throughout one's career. He always said nasty stuff about Agassi in the press after losing to him. After their 95 US SF, Agassi would barely shake his hand.

Somehow, it reminds me of what he said in his own book hoping to discredit Edberg's 90 Wimbledon win or at the very least, throw some dirt at it even if it happens to be his own.

http://stefanstennis.free.fr/news/archives.php?archive=1156853988&subaction=showfull&id=1069243731&

http://stefanstennis.free.fr/news/archives.php?archive=1156853988&subaction=showfull&id=1068638931&

Lee James
10-31-2009, 05:08 AM
From my understanding, Agassi is lucky he's still alive and was able to get off of meth. Enhancement of any sort of performance or activity that doesn't involve acquiring more meth rarely happens when you're on meth.

babbette
10-31-2009, 05:13 AM
he should stop being a pansy and admit to cocaine aswell.

drakulie
10-31-2009, 07:09 AM
His doctor stated absolutely nothing until Queen's.

uhmmm yes, he said this after Queens, but at the press conference stated he was injured as early as the beginning of the clay season, momo.

Which tabloid do you get your info from? The daily inquirer?

actually, the Nadal Gazette.


drakulie, he had knee pain.

having "pain" and being "injured" are very different. Learn to differentiate between the two.

Read some statement from highly respected doctors instead of mistaking your wishful thinking for fact.

I suppose you feel nadal's doctor is not "highly respected"?? I'm getting my facts from him.

He wasn't practicing for DC since he withdrew from that tie quite quickly.

Yes, he was. Look at the video in my signature.


You can play with knee pain.

as evidenced by, Nadal>>> he can play with knee pain, such as two meaningless exos, but can't play Wimbledon where he is the defending champion.

NamRanger
10-31-2009, 07:11 AM
How is it fact when the list hasn't been published at all and all you have as evidence is "people who know people have said that..."? Because you saw it written in one newspaper? Oh please. You can prove anything with that tactic ("a source that shall remain anonymous has declared..."). It's a popular method used in tabloids.

However, Fuentes talking about "tennis players" is still not proof that it's Nadal. esp. not given the fact that - again - both the Spanish authorities and independent organisations have declared at the time when some article published it that Nadal did not feature on that list.

Maybe I'm naive but like I said, I'm not willing to bet all I have on the claim that Nadal or any other athlete, not even St. Roger Federer, is clean either. However, your "Nadal = doper" obsession is clouding your judgement big time.




So we're just supposed to believe Spanish Authorities and Independent Organizations after this whole Agassi incident now? What if Nadal was like "oh dude, that was a mistake! I never came there"? I'm sure they would take his word for it.



The list isn't being released for a reason. And quite frankly, the reason is obvious. The authorities know there are some embarrassing names that could potentially ruin Spanish sports. Imagine if theoretically Nadal was on that list. What do they do? Bust him? Kill tennis and sports in Spain with one stone?

Cesc Fabregas
10-31-2009, 07:52 AM
Wouldn't surprise me if Agassi did other drugs in his career, but he is only admitting doing the class C drug.

~ZoSo~
10-31-2009, 08:09 AM
Wouldn't surprise me if Agassi did other drugs in his career, but he is only admitting doing the class C drug.

Meth is class A.

zambo
10-31-2009, 08:14 AM
Meth is class A.

Infact, it got moved up from B class to A.

Baikalic
10-31-2009, 02:01 PM
yay yet another thread had turned into a never ending steroid discussion.

feetofclay
10-31-2009, 02:43 PM
S
The list isn't being released for a reason. And quite frankly, the reason is obvious. The authorities know there are some embarrassing names that could potentially ruin Spanish sports. Imagine if theoretically Nadal was on that list. What do they do? Bust him? Kill tennis and sports in Spain with one stone?

Imagine if theoretically Federer was on that list. Would you still be so keen to have it released? I doubt it. All your hatred and dislike seems to be focused on one person. Where does all this hatred come from? Give it a rest.

corners
10-31-2009, 07:44 PM
Nadal shouldnt even be allowed on commenting this, Agassi and Federer is pure greatness.
Nadal is a buttpicker, crybaby,hypocrite,time-delayer and rule-bender.
He shouldnt even mention Agassis name.

Sweet post, but I like Nadal a lot, and like his honesty. But I think in this instance he shows that he's just a kid. He probably doesn't even know what crystal meth is. It's not performance enhancing, and although ATP policy forbids it and they should have suspended him at the time, this is really all about Agassi and the mistakes he's made than about the ATP. I think Fed's comments, though maybe too diplomatic, show a broader understanding of life - in other words, it's not always all about tennis. Now don't go ramming at me for being a Fed homer, I like Nadal too, just saying...

ms87
10-31-2009, 08:04 PM
I think in this instance he shows that he's just a kid. He probably doesn't even know what crystal meth is.

lol are you kidding me?

35ft6
11-01-2009, 06:37 PM
That is not how it works. The publishers need the money. They expect him to help them.So you're saying the publishers forced him to do this? You really believe that?

35ft6
11-01-2009, 06:38 PM
And what is all this talk of "leaks?" This is how books are marketed, by releasing excerpts and giving copies out to reviewers. Sheesh.

LiveForever
11-01-2009, 07:12 PM
Why is Nadal making such scathing remarks towards Andre for recreational drug use when he clearly defended his buddy Richard Gasquet and his number 1 fan Michael Phelps for drug use. :?

JoshDragon
11-01-2009, 07:40 PM
Nadal shouldnt even be allowed on commenting this, Agassi and Federer is pure greatness.
Nadal is a buttpicker, crybaby,hypocrite,time-delayer and rule-bender.
He shouldnt even mention Agassis name.

Please don't be so modest, tell us how you really feel.:roll:

JoshDragon
11-01-2009, 07:42 PM
Wouldn't surprise me if Agassi did other drugs in his career, but he is only admitting doing the class C drug.

That's exactly what I thought when I first heard about him admit to taking crystal meth.

gowrath
11-01-2009, 08:28 PM
Read my academic response to the Agassi-Meth revelation:

www.atpblogger.com

ubermeyer
11-01-2009, 08:41 PM
Nadal-"Asked about the surprise statements Andre Agassi, in which the U.S. admitted having used drugs. "I think is fatal," said Nadal, who said he did not understand "why say that now because he is retired, is a way of hurting the sport without any sense. If at the time the ATP covered the topic of Agassi and yes I passed other seems a lack of respect for all sports and from my point of view I want, I believe and hope that none of this is happening now. I think we have a clean sport and I am one who it want it to be, though I disagree with forms. The cheaters must be punished and if Agassi was a cheater in his day should have been punished, "

What does this even mean? :confused:

Beacon Hill
11-01-2009, 09:05 PM
Boris Becker has a lot to say:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/atptour/6461555/Boris-Becker-Im-struggling-to-understand-why-Andre-Agassi-wanted-to-confess.html
So Becker was washing down sleeping pills with alcohol and cheating on his wife, but has lost respect for Agassi because Agassi tried meth a few times.

drakulie
11-02-2009, 05:19 AM
Why is Nadal making such scathing remarks towards Andre for recreational drug use when he clearly defended his buddy Richard Gasquet and his number 1 fan Michael Phelps for drug use. :?

cause he is a hypocrite, who also spends most of his time either making excuses or criticizing the dopling policy and procedure.

CMM
11-02-2009, 08:23 AM
cause he is a hypocrite, who also spends most of his time either making excuses or criticizing the dopling policy and procedure.

If you want to "prove" something, at least choose the right proof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6BYW8SElK4

Looks like if you want to be the GOAT, you must be good at making excuses. But Rafa still has a lot to catch up.

drakulie
11-02-2009, 08:40 AM
^^^and what does that have to do with Nadal supporting Gasquet/Phelps, while criticizing AA??

also, what does that have to do with him constantly criticizing the doping policy and procedure???

CMM
11-02-2009, 08:58 AM
^^^and what does that have to do with Nadal supporting Gasquet/Phelps, while criticizing AA??

also, what does that have to do with him constantly criticizing the doping policy and procedure???

You have there a video that shows old images of Rafa training. They are not from this summer. I posted the right ones.
Gasquet told Rafa that he is innocent. Gasquet is his friend. The ATP didn't cover that and he was suspended for 3 months. Agassi got away with it.
Phelps doesn't play tennis. He said he admires Rafa and Rafa HAD to be nice, the same way that Fed said nice things about Agassi because he HAD to, after all that a** kissing he got from after French Open.
A lot of players are criticizing that procedure, because they say it is a little abusive.
Maybe Fed doesn't have a problem with it because he knows that ATP would cover him up anytime.:shock:

LiveForever
11-02-2009, 09:30 AM
You have there a video that shows old images of Rafa training. They are not from this summer. I posted the right ones.
Gasquet told Rafa that he is innocent. Gasquet is his friend. The ATP didn't cover that and he was suspended for 3 months. Agassi got away with it.
Phelps doesn't play tennis. He said he admires Rafa and Rafa HAD to be nice, the same way that Fed said nice things about Agassi because he HAD to, after all that a** kissing he got from after French Open.
A lot of players are criticizing that procedure, because they say it is a little abusive.
Maybe Fed doesn't have a problem with it because he knows that ATP would cover him up anytime.:shock:
Em No. I admire Federer's stance on the testing procedure. He views as something that must be done to preserve the integrity of the sport. There are sports out their that have testing policies 100 times stricter than the ATP and the athletes learn to deal with it. When tennis players keep *****ing about a small random urine test, it makes you suspicious. Testing for banned substances is important in all sports. No one wants cheaters in the game. Stop with the bullocks about the ATP selectively covering up only Federer and not Nadal. Why the hell would they do that? Do you know how much the ATP will be damaged if one of their biggest stars get busted?

drakulie
11-02-2009, 10:14 AM
You have there a video that shows old images of Rafa training. They are not from this summer.




guess you have never heard of a little something called "editing archived footage" to tell a story. Welcome to the year 2009.

zambo
11-02-2009, 10:17 AM
^^^and what does that have to do with Nadal supporting Gasquet/Phelps, while criticizing AA??

also, what does that have to do with him constantly criticizing the doping policy and procedure???

Do you honestly think Nadal is dumb enough to criticize Agassi in front of the press regarding his bad behavior yet he's taking drugs himself? :roll:

CMM
11-02-2009, 10:19 AM
guess you have never heard of a little something called "editing archived footage" to tell a story. Welcome to the year 2009.

So why saying this, when those practicing images didn't took place during Wimbledon? "Truth is, I was not injured during Wimbledon. Here is a video of me practicing"

sureshs
11-02-2009, 11:33 AM
Em No. I admire Federer's stance on the testing procedure. He views as something that must be done to preserve the integrity of the sport. There are sports out their that have testing policies 100 times stricter than the ATP and the athletes learn to deal with it. When tennis players keep *****ing about a small random urine test, it makes you suspicious. Testing for banned substances is important in all sports. No one wants cheaters in the game. Stop with the bullocks about the ATP selectively covering up only Federer and not Nadal. Why the hell would they do that? Do you know how much the ATP will be damaged if one of their biggest stars get busted?

It is not "a" small test, it is a battery of tests which lasts the full year, including off-season, and requires the player to report their whereabouts every day of the year. They can also be dragged in their undies out of a hotel room for the test. They are afraid to take flu medicines. Tim Henman suffered fatigue due to magnesium deficiency because he was afraid to take mineral supplements. There is an allowed list of supplements from pharmaceutical companies and players can take only that, and even then have to consult a lawyer and a doctor. If you had similar restrictions on your life because of your job, you would be screaming about invasion of privacy.

Some bad eggs like Agassi and Puerta give fine young lads like Nadal with well-developed muscles a bad name.

LiveForever
11-02-2009, 11:37 AM
It is not "a" small test, it is a battery of tests which lasts the full year, including off-season, and requires the player to report their whereabouts every day of the year. They can also be dragged in their undies out of a hotel room for the test. They are afraid to take flu medicines. Tim Henman suffered fatigue due to magnesium deficiency because he was afraid to take mineral supplements. There is an allowed list of supplements from pharmaceutical companies and players can take only that, and even then have to consult a lawyer and a doctor. If you had similar restrictions on your life because of your job, you would be screaming about invasion of privacy.

Some bad eggs like Agassi and Puerta give fine young lads like Nadal with well-developed muscles a bad name.
I dont think Nadal is doping at all but do you honestly think Tennis has the strongest drug monitoring system? Nope. There are sports out their that have much stricter methods and if what Agassi reports is true, we have a lot of cheaters in the sport.

drakulie
11-02-2009, 11:38 AM
Do you honestly think Nadal is dumb enough to criticize Agassi in front of the press regarding his bad behavior yet he's taking drugs himself? :roll:

He criticizes aa while defending gasquet. That is hypocricy.

So why saying this, when those practicing images didn't took place during Wimbledon? "Truth is, I was not injured during Wimbledon. Here is a video of me practicing"

The news agency reported him practicing , and used the archived footage for the report.

As I said, welcome to 2009.

CMM
11-02-2009, 11:43 AM
He criticizes aa while defending gasquet. That is hypocricy.



The news agency reported him practicing , and used the archived footage for the report.

As I said, welcome to 2009.

Well, get another update and use the video that actually shows what he had been doing.

zambo
11-02-2009, 11:53 AM
He criticizes aa while defending gasquet. That is hypocricy.



Are you for real? Gasquet never took any drugs and was wrongly accused. THAT's why Nadal defended Gasquet. Agassi HAS taken drugs and is being rightly attacked.

sureshs
11-02-2009, 11:55 AM
I dont think Nadal is doping at all but do you honestly think Tennis has the strongest drug monitoring system? Nope. There are sports out their that have much stricter methods

Like what?