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View Full Version : Navratilova compares Agassi to Roger Clemens (She is ****ed!)


JennyS
10-29-2009, 01:41 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news?slug=ap-agassi-navratilova&prov=ap&type=lgns

Cyan
10-29-2009, 01:42 PM
Ouch................................

batz
10-29-2009, 01:52 PM
Who is Roger Clemens and what did he do?

jamesblakefan#1
10-29-2009, 01:53 PM
Who is Roger Clemens and what did he do?

American baseball pitcher who lied about taking steroids during his playing career.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Clemens#Accusations_of_steroid_use

hifi heretic
10-29-2009, 01:58 PM
I like Martina, but too damn bad. ..Andre has a right to spill his guts about his career no matter what. If he were an actor or musician no one would grumble about his decision to exorcise some demons. Yet because this is tennis, he's supposed to be guarded and protective. BS! Maybe the greatest good to come from his story is that it will shine a light on what happens when a parent turns their 8 year old child into a meal-ticket. Might these revelations damage Andre's legacy and relationship to the sport?? Quite likely. ..But I admire that this doesn't deter him from sharing his story. to thy own self be true.

And the comparison to Clemons is bogus. For one, RC used a substance known to improve performance in sports; Andre used a recreational drug that can only ruin ones performance in sport. Secondly, RC fessed up to only after being outed whereas Andre admitted to this without any prompting.

ilovecarlos
10-29-2009, 02:01 PM
I don't blame Martina. I honestly don't know what possible reason Agassi could have for coming out and admitting this. Sure makes the ATP look stupid. I never joined in all of the love and adoration for Agassi. I know he lied about lot's of things...mostly injuries when he lost in an early round. He was a pretty lousey example to young players. Yeah, he's done a lot of good since then, with his Academy, but it shows others that some people can get away with anything if they are the "fair haired" albeit "fairhairpieced wearing" athelete.

batz
10-29-2009, 02:03 PM
American baseball pitcher who lied about taking steroids during his playing career.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Clemens#Accusations_of_steroid_use

Thanks.

Clemens sounds like a bit of a bawbag and possible drug cheat. Don't see how Andre is in any way comparable. Sounds like an over-reaction to me.

jamesblakefan#1
10-29-2009, 02:03 PM
Martina should have sympathy for someone having to keep something secret for so long. After all she did have to keep her sexuality a secret.

jamesblakefan#1
10-29-2009, 02:05 PM
Thanks.

Clemens sounds like a bit of a bawbag and possible drug cheat. Don't see how Andre is in any way comparable. Sounds like an over-reaction to me.

Yes the main difference is Clemens used stuff he knew would give him a competitive advantage. Meth to my knowledge gives no competitive advantage.

TBobLP
10-29-2009, 02:05 PM
clemens used drugs to help his play...wtf does crystal meth do to help you play tennis?? run faster? i think nothing should be taken away from him, and comparing him to roger clemens is completely ridiculous.

Moose Malloy
10-29-2009, 02:06 PM
“Andre lied and got away with it,” Navratilova said. “You can’t correct that now. Do you take away a title he wouldn’t have won if he had been suspended? He beat some people when he should have been suspended.”

The penalty for testing positive for recreational drugs in '97 was a 3 month suspension.

Agassi said he was informed of his positive test in the fall of '97, when he dropped out of the top 100. He hardly played at all that year(had an injury)

The only title he won when he should have been suspended was a challenger in fall '97.

There are excerpts from his book in the new issue of SI. Apparently the book is over 400 pages, sounds like it will blow Pete & Mac's book away in terms of detail(even in the brief excerpts I read the way he breaks down Goran's serving tendencies vs other lefty servers is really fascinating)
And the story of when his dad met Graf's dad for the 1st time is hilarious.

batz
10-29-2009, 02:07 PM
The penalty for testing positive for recreational drugs in '97 was a 3 month suspension.

Agassi said he was informed of his positive test in the fall of '97, when he dropped out of the top 100.

The only title he won when he should have been suspended was a challenger.

There are excerpts from his book in the new issue of SI. Apparently the book is over 400 pages, sounds like it will blow Pete & Mac's book away in terms of detail.

Yep - it's gone to the top of my Xmas book list.

LDVTennis
10-29-2009, 02:10 PM
Quoting from that article: “Andre lied and got away with it,” Navratilova said. “You can’t correct that now. Do you take away a title he wouldn’t have won if he had been suspended? He beat some people when he should have been suspended.”

Martina doesn't get it.

You'll note that we have no comment yet from Sampras on the subject. And, Sampras competed against Andre, Martina didn't.

But, I guess, once the butt of everyone's joke, always the butt of everyone's joke. Isn't it obvious to Martina that they called her to see what she thought because the suspicion has always been out there that she was juicing up on something?

Docalex007
10-29-2009, 02:11 PM
I agree with most people here... Agassi taking meth is hardly anything similar to Clemens taking steroids...

I actually admire Agassi quite a lot more now knowing he just had to set the truth free... even when he didn't have to.

Chadwixx
10-29-2009, 02:16 PM
Yes the main difference is Clemens used stuff he knew would give him a competitive advantage. Meth to my knowledge gives no competitive advantage.

What makes you think meth is the only thing he took?

MEAC_ALLAMERICAN
10-29-2009, 02:19 PM
What makes you think meth is the only thing he took?

What makes you think it isn’t the only thing he did take? All this knowledge came from the source himself. Anything else beyond that will be pure conjecture unless the ATP and Agassi decide to divulge anything further.

pame
10-29-2009, 02:23 PM
What makes you think meth is the only thing he took?

What makes you think it isn't?

Chadwixx
10-29-2009, 02:28 PM
You have to be really nieve to think someone experiments with meth.

Its like your first drink being everclear instead of a beer/wine.

His assistant just drops an ounce of meth on his table and he says nothing? If someone did that at your house im sure you would say something unless its been previously reguarded as ok.

LafayetteHitter
10-29-2009, 02:31 PM
With the lifestyle she lives I don't think she has room to put anyone down. It reminds of how Rosie O'donnell puts people down.

CCNM
10-29-2009, 02:50 PM
I used to like Roger Clemens. I was disappointed when I found out about his drug use, like I'm disappointed in Agassi. I think Martina N needs to shut her mouth-she talks too much!!!!

CyBorg
10-29-2009, 03:00 PM
Don't agree with Martina, but Agassi's book is a black eye for the ATP. Maybe well deserved, but still surprising. Not sure why Agassi decided to burn the bridges.

Lionheart392
10-29-2009, 03:02 PM
Martina should have sympathy for someone having to keep something secret for so long. After all she did have to keep her sexuality a secret.

Not the same at all. Martina unlike Andre had done nothing wrong.

pmerk34
10-29-2009, 03:02 PM
Who is Roger Clemens and what did he do?

this is a joke question right?

Chadwixx
10-29-2009, 03:09 PM
this is a joke question right?

Many people dont watch or care about baseball.

Martina used steroids when she played so she isnt really the one to be making these statements.

Joseph L. Barrow
10-29-2009, 03:15 PM
By no means does this make Agassi a drug cheat. Meth is a recreational drug, not a performance-enhancer, and probably has a decidedly harmful overall effect on tennis performance. It reflects poorly on Agassi that he abused a harmful substance and lied about it to officials to escape a three-month suspension, but it is hardly comparable to using illegal performance-enhancing drugs to cheat your way to the top and lying about it until you're outed.

Max G.
10-29-2009, 03:34 PM
I don't blame Martina. I honestly don't know what possible reason Agassi could have for coming out and admitting this.


To drum up hype so people will buy his book.

Seems like an obvious reason to come out with a big revelation just before the book is published... I'm surprised more people don't think this is the obvious explanation for "why now".

pmerk34
10-29-2009, 03:39 PM
Many people dont watch or care about baseball.

Martina used steroids when she played so she isnt really the one to be making these statements.

Of course but he's been all over the news regardless.

Hypatia
10-29-2009, 03:51 PM
Not the same at all. Martina unlike Andre had done nothing wrong.

Also, some gay people might take exception to being compared to someone lying about drug use for the sake of his career and reputation, then revealing it after retirement to goose his book sales. Just sayin’.

That said, the comparison to Clemens is totally over the top, given the information currently on the table.

hoosierbr
10-29-2009, 03:59 PM
1997 was Agassi's worst year on the tour. Who did he beat that he shouldn't have when he was supposed to be suspended according to Martina?

I don't disagree with her that Andre did a stupid thing and was lucky to get away with it but it's not like he was doing meth in 1999 when he won the French and US Opens.

Still, meth is a recreational drug, like cocaine, that isn't going to help your performance. Wilander, Hingis and Gasquet got a raw deal as far as that goes.

8pNADAL
10-29-2009, 04:05 PM
navrat comes across as being very slow in this article, first she doesnt understand why he lied (duh, his whole image would have been shot to pieces if he told the truth, especially considering his tag back then 'image is everything') and then she doesnt understand why hes telling the truth now (duh, he feels guilty plus hes writing a tell all biography), this woman is dumb to say the least

Chadwixx
10-29-2009, 04:07 PM
I don't disagree with her that Andre did a stupid thing and was lucky to get away with it but it's not like he was doing meth in 1999 when he won the French and US Opens.

Who knows, he sat on this for 11 years, you know he did alot more bad stuff.

Rios:
"There is a case that happened in Australia (2002), where there was a [doping] control and him [Agassi] disappeared saying that his son had just been kidnapped... I'd love sending someone to make him do the doping test and I'll say "hey, i want to see and certify that they're doing it to him". Because i don't know who is the boss, who is the one who decides whether they are going to make the test or not.

I know that if they catch him with nandrolona, they're not going to say anything. He's a very strong guy in tennis and tennis would come down is they catch him in a doping test. The ATP wouldn't say anything. The organization is so strong that Agassi would become a problem if he tests positive"

dtrain
10-29-2009, 04:14 PM
I'm biased because Agassi is my favorite player of all time. I like him for this reason, he never gave up. When things were at it's worse when he dropped to 100 something in the world he didn't give up and he was able to get back into the top 10 again and eventually the #1 spot. Not everyone has a perfect life. Not everyone can be Roger Federer or Pete Sampras. It takes a real person to come out and admit that they're wrong about something. Agassi didn't have to admit about the crystal meth in his book, but he did. I don't like that he did this years after he retired and nothing can be done to him. I think some can say it hurts his image. But he does say how bad it was for him. Was it a bad thing that he did it and lied about it? sure. Did he own up to it? In my opinion yes. The time period that he did crystal meth was a tough time for him. Like a regular human being we all have our moments, but look at Agassi's career and all the good he's done when he got his act together. To me he's shown regular people that we can overcome our everyday struggles, because he's done the same and became a better person. Navratilova can go off about Agassi, that's her opinion. To me what he did in a tough time of his life doesn't outweigh the good he's done after.

Keifers
10-29-2009, 04:21 PM
To drum up hype so people will buy his book.

Seems like an obvious reason to come out with a big revelation just before the book is published... I'm surprised more people don't think this is the obvious explanation for "why now".
Yeah, that's what I thought when I heard about his confession -- offering up something 'shocking' to get some free publicity for his book.

I know that's how the game is played when it comes to marketing a memoir these days, but confessing to lying strikes me as a pretty cheap and tawdry way of doing it. And oh so obvious that's what he's doing. Blecch!

You can take the boy out of Las Vegas, but ....

1970CRBase
10-29-2009, 04:29 PM
I feel sorry for Martina Navratilova.

Poor Martina.

jamesblakefan#1
10-29-2009, 04:32 PM
Not the same at all. Martina unlike Andre had done nothing wrong.

This is true. However there is the parallel in how she kept her sexuality a secret the same way Andre kept his drug usage a secret, in order to protect their public images. However it would be moronic to say being gay is the same thing as using drugs.

vandre
10-29-2009, 04:34 PM
http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/composition/3633812/view/1/producttypecolor/70/type/png/width/190/height/190

martina needs to drink this, remember she hasn't been important since the early 90s and take up shuffleboard with the rest of her geritol popping friends!

i wonder about how she feels about the skeletons in her closet?

what does she know about andre's life? who the hell is she to kick sand at anyone?

she's just honked because agassi overshadowed her "second retirement" at the 2006 uso

here martina, make it a double...

http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/composition/3633812/view/1/producttypecolor/70/type/png/width/190/height/190

LafayetteHitter
10-29-2009, 05:04 PM
navrat comes across as being very slow in this article, first she doesnt understand why he lied (duh, his whole image would have been shot to pieces if he told the truth, especially considering his tag back then 'image is everything') and then she doesnt understand why hes telling the truth now (duh, he feels guilty plus hes writing a tell all biography), this woman is dumb to say the least

Reading any comments from her reminds me of why I mute the tv when she is talking during a match. Most of the commentators are so lame and boring that I would almost prefer the shrieks of Sharapova.

hoodjem
10-29-2009, 05:14 PM
Yeah, he's done a lot of good since then, with his Academy, but it shows others that some people can get away with anything if they are the "fair haired" albeit "fairhairpieced wearing" athelete.
Agassi wore a hair piece?

Shocking!!

advantagetennis1
10-29-2009, 05:18 PM
Not the same at all. Martina unlike Andre had done nothing wrong.

oh and i beg to differ excuse me

sureshs
10-29-2009, 05:24 PM
Is Martina really comparing a recreational drug to a performance enhancing one? Or is she implying that Agassi took performance enhancing drugs too?

Don Felder
10-29-2009, 05:34 PM
As many have said, talk about apples to oranges. Meth in no way helped Agassi beat any one he shouldn't have. Any one who lost to him while he was using ought to be ashamed of themselves, not outraged.

Sounds like sour grapes on Martina's part to me. Agassi, widely loved and greatly acknowledged as an ambassador. Martina... well, a great player, but ****ed that most people mistook her for a member of the ATP.

veroniquem
10-29-2009, 05:45 PM
I like Martina, but too damn bad. ..Andre has a right to spill his guts about his career no matter what. If he were an actor or musician no one would grumble about his decision to exorcise some demons. Yet because this is tennis, he's supposed to be guarded and protective. BS! Maybe the greatest good to come from his story is that it will shine a light on what happens when a parent turns their 8 year old child into a meal-ticket. Might these revelations damage Andre's legacy and relationship to the sport?? Quite likely. ..But I admire that this doesn't deter him from sharing his story. to thy own self be true.

And the comparison to Clemons is bogus. For one, RC used a substance known to improve performance in sports; Andre used a recreational drug that can only ruin ones performance in sport. Secondly, RC fessed up to only after being outed whereas Andre admitted to this without any prompting.



Excellent! You expressed what I wanted to say perfectly eloquently. Agassi has every right to reveal whatever he wants of his own life and it would be dismal if he hid facts due to being intimidated by the ATP.

nothingfails
10-29-2009, 05:46 PM
Nav and Nadal should shut up. As long as steroids are not a recreational drug. I wonder why both felt the the need to speak up. Do they feel guilty deep inside ? Hypocrisy...

kslick
10-29-2009, 05:55 PM
I'm biased because Agassi is my favorite player of all time. I like him for this reason, he never gave up. When things were at it's worse when he dropped to 100 something in the world he didn't give up and he was able to get back into the top 10 again and eventually the #1 spot. Not everyone has a perfect life. Not everyone can be Roger Federer or Pete Sampras. It takes a real person to come out and admit that they're wrong about something. Agassi didn't have to admit about the crystal meth in his book, but he did. I don't like that he did this years after he retired and nothing can be done to him. I think some can say it hurts his image. But he does say how bad it was for him. Was it a bad thing that he did it and lied about it? sure. Did he own up to it? In my opinion yes. The time period that he did crystal meth was a tough time for him. Like a regular human being we all have our moments, but look at Agassi's career and all the good he's done when he got his act together. To me he's shown regular people that we can overcome our everyday struggles, because he's done the same and became a better person. Navratilova can go off about Agassi, that's her opinion. To me what he did in a tough time of his life doesn't outweigh the good he's done after.


Well said!!

veroniquem
10-29-2009, 05:56 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought when I heard about his confession -- offering up something 'shocking' to get some free publicity for his book.

I know that's how the game is played when it comes to marketing a memoir these days, but confessing to lying strikes me as a pretty cheap and tawdry way of doing it. And oh so obvious that's what he's doing. Blecch!

You can take the boy out of Las Vegas, but ....

So by your logic it would be nobler to continue lying than come up with the truth at some point? Sorry but I don't understand that morality. So it would be better for people to remain naive and credulous and trust the ATP blindly when they don't deserve it? It would be better for people to believe an athlete is blameless when he's not? I have no interest in fairy tales, I'd always rather know the truth!

veroniquem
10-29-2009, 05:59 PM
I don't blame Martina. I honestly don't know what possible reason Agassi could have for coming out and admitting this. Sure makes the ATP look stupid. I never joined in all of the love and adoration for Agassi. I know he lied about lot's of things...mostly injuries when he lost in an early round. He was a pretty lousey example to young players. Yeah, he's done a lot of good since then, with his Academy, but it shows others that some people can get away with anything if they are the "fair haired" albeit "fairhairpieced wearing" athelete.

Excuse-me but you totally lost me here. What does Agassi's attitude have to do with the color of his hair?:shock:

PRINCE DARWIN
10-29-2009, 06:04 PM
Martina has a right to speak her mind, rather we agree with her or not. She said that Martina Hingis was too young to play and those statements, too, ****ed people off. Well, look at Hingis now.

And her comparison with Roger Clemens is not about performance-enhancing vs. non performance-enhancing. It's about LYING. And I think it's definitely a VALID COMPARISON. I like Agassi, but he is definitely wrong for lying.

Now. I can't wait to see if, and when, Steffi Graf responds to Martina =). But all of this discussion is great for Andre. Let's be honest. Every time expresses disappointment in Agassi, a few more sales will be realized.

PRINCE DARWIN

Outbeyond
10-29-2009, 06:13 PM
Martina might enjoy this subtle jab at Agassi, reportedly from CBS columnist Ray Ratto:

"Hope it’s very therapeutic for him. Hope it causes someone else to walk away from meth, or coke, or Peruvian poisonous toad extract, or whatever else is out there now. We're not here to kick a guy now that he's back up, although in fairness we've always found honesty to be more refreshing when it doesn't come at $31.99 a copy."

grafselesfan
10-29-2009, 06:20 PM
Martina is just an attention seeker. For the last 10-15 years she constantly states herself as the greatest ever in press conferences because she is jealous of the fact that Graf has surpassed her status as the greatest ever in the opinion of most people. This is just another attempt at getting in the news.

1970CRBase
10-29-2009, 06:44 PM
Only the extremely hypocritical & insufferably self-righteous would judge another human being for revealing, on his own accord, a small part of his past history.

But don't miss the real point : it's really about yet another opportunity to back stab Steffi for having something in her life that she will never have herself.

ZhengJieisagoddess
10-29-2009, 07:18 PM
I have so much respect for Martina. She's a real champion and has been through hell. She has earned the right to speak her mind.
But I have to disagree with her on this one. Andre wrote an honest autobiography, and is a first-class guy. He hasn't lost my respect with this admission; he has deepened it. He and Steff are tennis's royal couple, and deservedly so.
And he is not like Roger Clemens. No effing way.

bluetrain4
10-29-2009, 07:52 PM
I agree with the people who realize that using steroids and using meth in the context of sports is substantively different.

But I don't think Agassi should completely get a free pass. It's not so much that he did meth (it's his health after all). It's more the fact that he lied to the ATP, which really is a pretty serious breach of sports ethics. Who knows what the punishment would have been, but the fact is he lied to evade punishment.

I'm not saying, by any means, that his ruins his legacy, but it is something that should be noted.

veroniquem
10-29-2009, 08:01 PM
What should be noted is that he's admitting to it even though nothing forces him to.

LafayetteHitter
10-29-2009, 08:49 PM
Martina is just mad because she looks like a bulldog and is an also ran.

OTMPut
10-29-2009, 08:59 PM
What should be noted is that he's admitting to it even though nothing forces him to.

How do you know this?
Could he be preempting to protect himself? Imagine if "slim" outed Agassi! Wouldn't that destroy his image? Now he gets to play a Messiah and praised by people for being honest.

Sorry i cannot help it. Once a cop always a cop.

film1
10-29-2009, 09:43 PM
I would like to know if he took peds while working with his trainer?

Warriorroger
10-29-2009, 10:00 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news?slug=ap-agassi-navratilova&prov=ap&type=lgns


She'll say anything to (indirectly) take a shot at Steffi.

hoosierbr
10-29-2009, 11:02 PM
Who knows, he sat on this for 11 years, you know he did alot more bad stuff.

Rios:
"There is a case that happened in Australia (2002), where there was a [doping] control and him [Agassi] disappeared saying that his son had just been kidnapped... I'd love sending someone to make him do the doping test and I'll say "hey, i want to see and certify that they're doing it to him". Because i don't know who is the boss, who is the one who decides whether they are going to make the test or not.

I know that if they catch him with nandrolona, they're not going to say anything. He's a very strong guy in tennis and tennis would come down is they catch him in a doping test. The ATP wouldn't say anything. The organization is so strong that Agassi would become a problem if he tests positive"
I've heard this before. Has this ever actually been proven? Rios is the only person that I know of who said that. It lacks the ring of truth b/c Andre didn't play at the AO in 2002.

settolove
10-30-2009, 12:24 AM
I think that quote has been taken out of context and appended. I've seen a longer version somewhere. Here is an explanation of what Rios said from a poster on MTF in 2004
Originally Posted by undomiele
oh Ive read some of the media on this. You guys have most of it wrong. Rios came out on Chilean radio saying that the ATP plays favorites when it comes to its most popular players (NOT that Agassi took drugs) and that when it comes to players like Agassi and Sampras, etc, guys who have buttressed the sport, the ATP never publicly discloses their drug tests while opting to publicly disclose those of the "lesser" players. He says that if Agassi had tested positive for nandrolene (a drug thats more common than you think) the ATP would never think to disclose it for economic reasons. Such a scandal would be too big for them to handle.

Its important to point out that Rios here never accuses Agassi or Sampras of taking drugs, but rather that the ATP goes to large efforts in protecting their reputations over others. He says no one has any way of knowing if whether or not the atp actually tests agassi or gives out the right results --there's no secondary independent body to certify such results along with the results published by the atp.

In other words, he and "the other south americans" [his words] have long speculated that the atp plays favorites when it comes to drug testing and accuses the atp of just being a little too sketchy in its public disclosures. He says the process should be more transparent.

Hope my explanation helps.

pmerk34
10-30-2009, 03:50 AM
She'll say anything to (indirectly) take a shot at Steffi.

How on earth is this a shot at Steffi?

jrod
10-30-2009, 04:02 AM
Roger Clemens is a self-serving, egotistical moron. How anyone could compare this piece of crap to Andre is beyond comprehension.

sureshs
10-30-2009, 04:27 AM
Only the extremely hypocritical & insufferably self-righteous would judge another human being for revealing, on his own accord, a small part of his past history.


You forgot the $31.99 price for it.

Only an extremely naive human being would believe that Agassi gives a rodent's posterior about revealing his truths to you. It is about money.

drakulie
10-30-2009, 04:49 AM
Martina is so gay.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 05:24 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news?slug=ap-agassi-navratilova&prov=ap&type=lgns
I can understand that a few people are upset.
But let me get this straight since i dont know anything about drugs and never have tried (proud of that).
Chrystal Meth: Its not a ferformance-booster right? From what ive seen you become a nutcase trying this? Id say this makes it even more impressive of him winning the FO in 1999.
The former (and current) WTA-players should stfu. Navratilova is just ****ed that Andre stole someone she wanted to bed...
:evil:

batz
10-30-2009, 05:41 AM
I can understand that a few people are upset.
But let me get this straight since i dont know anything about drugs and never have tried (proud of that).
Chrystal Meth: Its not a ferformance-booster right? From what ive seen you become a nutcase trying this? Id say this makes it even more impressive of him winning the FO in 1999.
The former (and current) WTA-players should stfu. Navratilova is just ****ed that Andre stole someone she wanted to bed...
:evil:

Wow - you've never taken any drugs - not even alcohol, nicotine or cafeine?

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 05:44 AM
Wow - you've never taken any drugs - not even alcohol, nicotine or cafeine?
Uhrm...if alcohol and nicotine are considered drugs, than Yes. But no heavy drugs like CM or weed or cocaine etc.

jefferson
10-30-2009, 05:50 AM
Listen taking a drug that IMPAIRS your ability to drive, never mind play world class tennis is not even close to taking performance enhancing drugs! Andre was not looking for an edge on the competition, he was looking for an escape from reality.

Suspend him the three months? it was like he suspended himself, dropping out of the top 100 and losing to anyone and everyone. He did not win a title during this period of rock bottom.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 05:52 AM
Listen taking a drug that IMPAIRS your ability to drive, never mind play world class tennis is not even close to taking performance enhancing drugs! Andre was not looking for an edge on the competition, he was looking for an escape from reality.

Yes, this is what ive been trying to say, its hard sometimes when English isnt your first language
:)

jefferson
10-30-2009, 05:52 AM
Uhrm...if alcohol and nicotine are considered drugs, than Yes. But no heavy drugs like CM or weed or cocaine etc.

Whoa... weed - heavy drug? easy guy. to put weed in a class with coke or meth is just ridiculus. alcohol and weed are on same level, period.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 05:53 AM
Whoa... weed - heavy drug? easy guy. to put weed in a class with coke or meth is just ridiculus. alcohol and weed are on same level, period.
Ok, thanx for correcting me since i have no idea about it whatsoever.

Gorecki
10-30-2009, 05:55 AM
Uhrm...if alcohol and nicotine are considered drugs, than Yes. But no heavy drugs like CM or weed or cocaine etc.

just s side note. weed is not a heavy drug, not by definition.

MAX PLY
10-30-2009, 05:55 AM
Wow. why all of the hate for Martina? Her comparison to Clemens was not on the drug issue, it was on the lying issue. The fact that meth is "only a recreational drug" is irrelevant to that point. The point is that Andre took an ATP-banned substance and lied to the ATP with respect to the source and facts underlying his ingestion of the substance. She makes it clear that is her complaint--his behavior goes to the intregity of the game and she resents it. I think that is a fair point. Granted the ATP has some responsibility here too but only after the fact of the lie.

Nevertheless, Andre cheated. The mere fact that 1997 may have been his worst year doesn't mean that "no harm, no foul" applies here. His popularity will no doubt overcome this blemish, but the facts do not seem to be in dispute. He broke the rules and lied about it--cheating period. And kudos to Martina for expressing her views rather than some "corporate speak"--whether one agrees with her or not--I am certainly not her biggest fan but some of the criticism her is really over the top and in many cases, totally irrelevant to the facts at hand.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 05:55 AM
just s side note. weed is not a heavy drug, not by definition.
Ok i wouldnt know, thanx for telling me though.

Alec78
10-30-2009, 05:56 AM
Uhrm...if alcohol and nicotine are considered drugs, than Yes. But no heavy drugs like CM or weed or cocaine etc.

Considered drugs? They are drugs - two of the most addictive psychoactive narcotics on the planet.

dropshot winner
10-30-2009, 05:57 AM
Uhrm...if alcohol and nicotine are considered drugs, than Yes. But no heavy drugs like CM or weed or cocaine etc.
Weed a heavy drug? Where do you live?

No reason to think of it as any more harmful than what you don't consider drugs.
Alcohol kills thousands every year and destroys even more families, Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances, legal or not.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 05:58 AM
Weed a heavy drug? Where do you live?

Okey okey, i understand.
Sweden.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 05:59 AM
Considered drugs? They are drugs - two of the most addictive psychoactive narcotics on the planet.
Okey i get the point...
:-?

dropshot winner
10-30-2009, 06:00 AM
Okey okey, i understand.
Sweden.
Is it considered there as a heavy drug? From what I read and heard Sweden is one of the most progressive countries, I can't imagine that they don't make any distinction.

batz
10-30-2009, 06:00 AM
TMOP - you're cool mate - I love your unworldliness :)


Unfortunately, you are also symptomatic as to why we're unlikely to make progress wrt drugs policy.

Anyhoo, We're way off topic. Bottom line is Andre didn't take a performance enhancing substance to try and gain advantage.

drakulie
10-30-2009, 06:07 AM
Wow. why all of the hate for Martina? Her comparison to Clemens was not on the drug issue, it was on the lying issue.


I think people's outrage over her comment comes from her not being the most truthful person either. She should really shut her trap.

<<Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone>>

Alec78
10-30-2009, 06:10 AM
Sorry to continue off-topic, but I just want to note that recently, the Justice Dept sent a not-so-thinly-veiled messages to the states: go ahead and pass medical marijuana legislation, or decriminalize the stuff. The Federal government will not interfere.

Gorecki
10-30-2009, 06:11 AM
I think people's outrage over her comment comes from her not being the most truthful person either. She should really shut her trap.

<<Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone>>

Martina.. i bet she would never keep a secret on something that might influence peoples views on her, like personal options that are not well accepted by certain conservative parts of society... would she?:)

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 06:12 AM
Is it considered there as a heavy drug? From what I read and heard Sweden is one of the most progressive countries, I can't imagine that they don't make any distinction.
Progressive...and distinctions...hrm...Tobacco is being sold everywhere, you have to be 18 to buy it though. Alcohol is only sold at stores called "Systembolaget", a chain that has monopoly selling it. And you have to be 20 to buy it.

drakulie
10-30-2009, 06:14 AM
Martina.. i bet she would never keep a secret on something that might influence peoples views on her, like personal options that are not well accepted by certain conservative parts of society... would she?:)


Of course not. She is such a saint when it comes to being open and honest. We should really all follow her lead. :)

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 06:15 AM
TMOP - you're cool mate - I love your unworldliness :)


Unfortunately, you are also symptomatic as to why we're unlikely to make progress wrt drugs policy.

Anyhoo, We're way off topic. Bottom line is Andre didn't take a performance enhancing substance to try and gain advantage.
Thanx :) I guess...
Exactly, therefore he shouldnt be flamed for it. There are a lot of American athletes who has done A LOT worse...lets try Michael Vick and Kobe Bryant!
:evil:
I still like Andre just as much as ive always done.

dropshot winner
10-30-2009, 06:15 AM
Progressive...and distinctions...hrm...Tobacco is being sold everywhere, you have to be 18 to buy it though. Alcohol is only sold at stores called "Systembolaget", a chain that has monopoly selling it. And you have to be 20 to buy it.
That's actually more progressive than most other countries, it doesn't make sense to outlaw substances like weed but to sell alcohol and tobacco to every 16 year old (like here in Switzerland).

MAX PLY
10-30-2009, 06:18 AM
I think people's outrage over her comment comes from her not being the most truthful person either. She should really shut her trap.

<<Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone>>

Interesting (particularly since I typically agree with you or at least appreciate your comments). Anyway, I never really liked her but never thought of her as being chronically untruthful. Regardless, I still think she is entitled to her opinions and to express them openly. Likewise, her reputation and credibility are fodder for criticism and evaluation of her comments (which in this case seem to me at least to be spot on). As for the "stone" test, it is certainly a nice aspiration but is hardly a litmus test (otherwise, I suspect this board would be very quiet). Since I suspect we have all sinned, our only alternative is to evaluate facts and opinions in the marketplace of ideas--not perfect but really all we have.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 06:18 AM
That's actually more progressive than most other countries, it doesn't make sense to outlaw substances like weed but to sell alcohol and tobacco to every 16 year old (like here in Switzerland).
Oh i see, i thought Switzerland was a lot more strict? If you buy alcohol to underage in Sweden (or even buy tobacco) you will get a juicy penalty though.
Sweden is messed up though, if you kill someone you will get closed treatment for 3 years then back to society, but if you speed with your car they will fine the living **** out of you...
:-?

dropshot winner
10-30-2009, 06:29 AM
Oh i see, i thought Switzerland was a lot more strict? If you buy alcohol to underage in Sweden (or even buy tobacco) you will get a juicy penalty though.
Sweden is messed up though, if you kill someone you will get closed treatment for 3 years then back to society, but if you speed with your car they will fine the living **** out of you...
:-?

By law beer, wine (all non-spirits) and cigarettes can be sold to 16 year olds, but the bigger stores are now starting to sell only to 18+ year olds.
Smoking is regulated more and more, so it is getting more restrictive.

But what I find kind of ironic is how many people smoke (outlawed) weed here in Zurich, it's a way higher percentage than for example in Amsterdam where you can legally buy it (well not legally, but it's decriminalized).

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 06:34 AM
But what I find kind of ironic is how many people smoke (outlawed) weed here in Zurich, it's a way higher percentage than for example in Amsterdam where you can legally buy it (well not legally, but it's decriminalized).

I had no idea about this, interesting.

dropshot winner
10-30-2009, 06:40 AM
I had no idea about this, interesting.
It is.

Maybe here it has something to do with the "thrill of the forbidden", while in Amsterdam the locals are sick of all the stoned tourists.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 06:41 AM
It is.

Maybe here it has something to do with the "thrill of the forbidden"
Thats a very good theory

THUNDERVOLLEY
10-30-2009, 06:44 AM
And the comparison to Clemons is bogus. For one, RC used a substance known to improve performance in sports; Andre used a recreational drug that can only ruin ones performance in sport. Secondly, RC fessed up to only after being outed whereas Andre admitted to this without any prompting.

BS. The only difference is timing; Clemons believed his use of steroids would hurt his continuing career and reputation if exposed. Agassi--ever concerned about his image and reputation--likely thought he would reveal his drug abuses before anyone else could, thus taking damning teeth away from anyone who could potentially expose him (..or so he probably thought). Tough ***** for Agassi, but his stab at being Mr. Honest is seen for what it is...which is anything other than being some honest, repent-filled bearer of the cautionary tale.

McBrat
10-30-2009, 06:49 AM
Oh i see, i thought Switzerland was a lot more strict? If you buy alcohol to underage in Sweden (or even buy tobacco) you will get a juicy penalty though.
Sweden is messed up though, if you kill someone you will get closed treatment for 3 years then back to society, but if you speed with your car they will fine the living **** out of you...
:-?Lol, anyone ever decided to just kill the cop who spotted them instead of paying the fine?:D

batz
10-30-2009, 06:52 AM
Thanx :) I guess...
Exactly, therefore he shouldnt be flamed for it. There are a lot of American athletes who has done A LOT worse...lets try Michael Vick and Kobe Bryant!
:evil:
I still like Andre just as much as ive always done.

You and me both mate.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 06:53 AM
Lol, anyone ever decided to just kill the cop who spotted them instead of paying the fine?:D
:):)
Thats funny, im not the right person to answer this although i would assume that killing a cop would sentence you to prison for at least 20 years, even in Sweden.
Here comes the next problem-Swedish prisons are considered among foreign people to be Holiday Inn, they get great food, they work and earn money, they have free cable-tv, a gym etc...
Turkish or Thai prisons are the right answer! :twisted:

TheMagicianOfPrecision
10-30-2009, 06:53 AM
Thanx :) I guess...
Exactly, therefore he shouldnt be flamed for it. There are a lot of American athletes who has done A LOT worse...lets try Michael Vick and Kobe Bryant!
:evil:
I still like Andre just as much as ive always done.

You and me both mate.
Good to hear my British mate ! :)

Beacon Hill
10-30-2009, 07:10 AM
There should not be any rules against using recreational drugs. People need to be free to decide what they ingest into their own bodies. Therefore, lying about breaking such a ridiculous and unnecessary rule is understandable.

If he was taking performance enhancing drugs, that is a completely different story.

theprophe
10-30-2009, 04:16 PM
Why is everyone saying its a recreational drug? Meth is a known stimulant and can help in athletic performance, thats why its a banned drug by the olympic organization. Now drugs like weed,lsd,etc.. which have no performance enhancing benefits should be ok.

naplesfltennis
10-30-2009, 04:29 PM
Does anyone really care what Martina thinks about men's tennis?
At 36, bad back and all - Andre would destroy Martina in her prime.
What Martina should be commenting on is how all of today's women (with the exception of the Williams sisters and Sharapova) can't close out a match-then suddenly have to retire due to an injury!!!

Sartorius
10-30-2009, 04:36 PM
Does anyone really care what Martina thinks about men's tennis?
At 36, bad back and all - Andre would destroy Martina in her prime.

The randomness of this really made me giggle.

CyBorg
10-30-2009, 04:56 PM
The randomness of this really made me giggle.

Heh. I bet Agassi can beat Martina up too. That'd show her.

topher.juan
10-30-2009, 05:07 PM
Interesting; I didn't know crystal meth was performance enhancing.

Joe Pike
10-30-2009, 05:39 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought when I heard about his confession -- offering up something 'shocking' to get some free publicity for his book.

I know that's how the game is played when it comes to marketing a memoir these days, but confessing to lying strikes me as a pretty cheap and tawdry way of doing it. ....


Me thinks tht you are concluding from your own values and motivation in life to Agassi's.
That's a mistake.

TheTruth
10-30-2009, 05:44 PM
Wow. why all of the hate for Martina? Her comparison to Clemens was not on the drug issue, it was on the lying issue. The fact that meth is "only a recreational drug" is irrelevant to that point. The point is that Andre took an ATP-banned substance and lied to the ATP with respect to the source and facts underlying his ingestion of the substance. She makes it clear that is her complaint--his behavior goes to the intregity of the game and she resents it. I think that is a fair point. Granted the ATP has some responsibility here too but only after the fact of the lie.

Nevertheless, Andre cheated. The mere fact that 1997 may have been his worst year doesn't mean that "no harm, no foul" applies here. His popularity will no doubt overcome this blemish, but the facts do not seem to be in dispute. He broke the rules and lied about it--cheating period. And kudos to Martina for expressing her views rather than some "corporate speak"--whether one agrees with her or not--I am certainly not her biggest fan but some of the criticism her is really over the top and in many cases, totally irrelevant to the facts at hand.

Extremely well said.

The issue is that he lied, avoided punishment, and the ATP colluded with him in this, all while portraying him as a saint. Meanwhile, players of "lesser" stature have lost earnings, time off their jobs, and blemishes to their reputations for asthma medications and drugs given to them by the ATP's own trainers! Ridiculous.

Now, to hear people decrying honesty eleven years after the fact, upon the eve of his new book coming out smacks of hypocrisy at the highest level.

What would have been honorable, if he was into that, would have been to take the punishment for the crime. Not sweep under the rug until the statute of limitations has passed and nothing can be done about it.

Not only that, but the ATP in their blind worship of him, colluded with him, and now he's putting them on front street for his own selfish reasons.

I'm glad Martina and Nadal had the guts to tell the truth rather than go along with the shenanigans knowing that a lesser player would have been crucified unmercilessly.

JoelDali
10-30-2009, 05:48 PM
Why is everyone saying its a recreational drug? Meth is a known stimulant and can help in athletic performance, thats why its a banned drug by the olympic organization. Now drugs like weed,lsd,etc.. which have no performance enhancing benefits should be ok.

LOL.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

mzzmuaa
10-31-2009, 10:51 AM
she is right in that he would have been suspended and should lose whatever titles (if any) he obtained for whatever time the suspension would be in effect
but that's in a just world

drakulie
10-31-2009, 10:55 AM
I'm glad Martina and Nadal had the guts to tell the truth rather than go along with the shenanigans knowing that a lesser player would have been crucified unmercilessly.

Uhmmm Nadal should be one to talk. He is constantly criticizing the doping policy and procedure, supports gasquet who has used cocaine and was caught, and he also uses illegal substances.

TheTruth
10-31-2009, 11:04 AM
Uhmmm Nadal should be one to talk. He is constantly criticizing the doping policy and procedure, supports gasquet who has used cocaine and was caught, and he also uses illegal substances.

The Nadal "thing" is a figment of your imagination.

The Agassi thing is real (straight from the horses mouth).

It's one thing to give someone the benefit of the doubt, but

There's no giving the benefit when someone lies, cheats, and then exposes those who helped him.

Big difference, but I wouldn't expect you to see that.

Tanya
10-31-2009, 12:06 PM
Martina should get off her pedestal; who really cares what she thinks rofl

Gorecki
10-31-2009, 12:38 PM
Navratilova compares Agassi to Roger Clemens (She is ****ed!)

She must have been very ****ed when she said those words... probably vodka!

on another note, i see the judgemental "truthfull" momo is back with agassi hatred and the usual Nadalete idiocy...

Cesc Fabregas
10-31-2009, 12:41 PM
Navratilova compares Agassi to Roger Clemens (She is ****ed!)

She must have been very ****ed when she said those words... probably vodka!

on another note, i see the judgemental "truthfull" momo is back with agassi hatred and the usual Nadalete idiocy...

Your a freakin hyprocrite, its oks for you to like Agassi but dislike Nadal, but if someone dislikes Agassi and likes Nadal they are "judgemental", you're a clown!

Gorecki
10-31-2009, 12:45 PM
Your a freakin hyprocrite, its oks for you to like Agassi but dislike Nadal, but if someone dislikes Agassi and likes Nadal they are "judgemental", you're a clown!

Your a freakin hyprocrite, its oks for you to like Nadal but dislike Agassi, but if someone dislikes Nadal and likes Agassi they are "judgemental", you're a clown!

ps: says so in your signature...

vive le beau jeu !
10-31-2009, 01:17 PM
There are excerpts from his book in the new issue of SI. Apparently the book is over 400 pages, sounds like it will blow Pete & Mac's book away in terms of detail(even in the brief excerpts I read the way he breaks down Goran's serving tendencies vs other lefty servers is really fascinating)
And the story of when his dad met Graf's dad for the 1st time is hilarious.
i'm curious... what does he say about goran's serve ?
(by the way, does he confirm the trick with becker's tongue is a myth ?) ;)

veroniquem
10-31-2009, 01:26 PM
Extremely well said.

The issue is that he lied, avoided punishment, and the ATP colluded with him in this, all while portraying him as a saint. Meanwhile, players of "lesser" stature have lost earnings, time off their jobs, and blemishes to their reputations for asthma medications and drugs given to them by the ATP's own trainers! Ridiculous.

Now, to hear people decrying honesty eleven years after the fact, upon the eve of his new book coming out smacks of hypocrisy at the highest level.

What would have been honorable, if he was into that, would have been to take the punishment for the crime. Not sweep under the rug until the statute of limitations has passed and nothing can be done about it.

Not only that, but the ATP in their blind worship of him, colluded with him, and now he's putting them on front street for his own selfish reasons.

I'm glad Martina and Nadal had the guts to tell the truth rather than go along with the shenanigans knowing that a lesser player would have been crucified unmercilessly.


What is really ironical about that argument is that Agassi didn't have to admit that he lied, the thing was stifled, noone would have found out. Agassi's confession wasn't prompted by anyone or anything. He decided to confess regardless. According to some people's reactions, the only thing Agassi had to do to remain a remarkable hero is to keep it closeted. As long as he kept what he did under cover he was totally innocent but if he brings it up he is a piece of trash. That's mafia ethics, isn't it? We can commit murders, as long as it doesn't get out of the family, it's OK? Or incest: as long as it remains a secret, there's no blame and we can pretend it didn't happen? The notion that lying or hiding the truth is more commendable than telling the truth (and I really don't care about WHEN that occurs because that's not the point) is profoundly and disturbingly immoral.
So I find Agassi is much less trash and more decent now than he was when he allowed people to think erroneously that he never did anything wrong.
That's my idea of what's moral and I'm really proud of it.

LiveForever
10-31-2009, 01:33 PM
Your a freakin hyprocrite, its oks for you to like Agassi but dislike Nadal, but if someone dislikes Agassi and likes Nadal they are "judgemental", you're a clown!
I agree. This Gorecki fellow is really taking these agassi threads too seriously. In every thread about Agassi's recent confessions, this guy has been throwing around insults left and right at posters. He is probably a huge Agassi fan. I agree with him that people are making too big of a deal about this but I can completely understand the criticism Agassi is receiving. I am sure Agassi knew that he is pretty much placing a red target on his back by releasing this info.

Warriorroger
11-01-2009, 01:45 AM
Martina is just an attention seeker. For the last 10-15 years she constantly states herself as the greatest ever in press conferences because she is jealous of the fact that Graf has surpassed her status as the greatest ever in the opinion of most people. This is just another attempt at getting in the news.

This time I agree with you..

TheTruth
11-01-2009, 02:28 PM
Navratilova compares Agassi to Roger Clemens (She is ****ed!)

She must have been very ****ed when she said those words... probably vodka!

on another note, i see the judgemental "truthfull" momo is back with agassi hatred and the usual Nadalete idiocy...

Have I ever done anything to you? Since I first came on the board you've been extremely snide and disrespectful to me.

Momo=dumbest word in history. I hate that word. It's not even a good insult.

TheTruth
11-01-2009, 02:31 PM
Your a freakin hyprocrite, its oks for you to like Agassi but dislike Nadal, but if someone dislikes Agassi and likes Nadal they are "judgemental", you're a clown!

So true. I couldn't have said it better myself!

Where do they get off with their hypocritical ways, calling other people hypocrites? It's lol funny!

TheTruth
11-01-2009, 02:41 PM
What is really ironical about that argument is that Agassi didn't have to admit that he lied, the thing was stifled, noone would have found out. Agassi's confession wasn't prompted by anyone or anything. He decided to confess regardless. According to some people's reactions, the only thing Agassi had to do to remain a remarkable hero is to keep it closeted. As long as he kept what he did under cover he was totally innocent but if he brings it up he is a piece of trash. That's mafia ethics, isn't it? We can commit murders, as long as it doesn't get out of the family, it's OK? Or incest: as long as it remains a secret, there's no blame and we can pretend it didn't happen? The notion that lying or hiding the truth is more commendable than telling the truth (and I really don't care about WHEN that occurs because that's not the point) is profoundly and disturbingly immoral.
So I find Agassi is much less trash and more decent now than he was when he allowed people to think erroneously that he never did anything wrong.
That's my idea of what's moral and I'm really proud of it.

You make great points that support your position, but they don't support my opinion.

To me, I would never allow people to put me on a pedestal when I know I am/ or have ingested drugs that are against the tour's policy. Nor would I lie and then later expose the people who thought they were "helping" me.

To me, the when is very important. In order to be noble you must accept your punishment, not wait until the statute of limations has lapsed and it's doubtful you can pay retribution.

In the case of incest it also matters when it occurred and what steps the perpetrator may have taken to come clean. If the abuser allowed their "deed" to go unpunished for twelve years and finally comes clean when the child becomes an adult, then at best it's better late than never. However, imo, it's not noble.

Same as the mafia snitch who participated in the murders and now gains immunity for blowing the whistle and copping a lesser plea. Noble would be blowing the whistle before the crime occurred, but if you participate in, and are a party to years after the fact. No, I do not consider that noble.

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-01-2009, 03:12 PM
Yes the main difference is Clemens used stuff he knew would give him a competitive advantage. Meth to my knowledge gives no competitive advantage.

well done.

ubermeyer
11-01-2009, 03:19 PM
"accidentally drinking a soda spiked with meth"

What??? they accepted THAT???

CCNM
11-01-2009, 06:05 PM
Roger Clemens, Agassi, my teen idol/crush Bobby Hurley (he was a great basketball player for Duke University in the early 1990's. Drafted into the NBA but shortly afterwards was in a car crash that nearly killed him-he wasn't wearing a seat belt)-I think I (and the rest of the world) should find non-athletes to look up to :(

TennisD
11-04-2009, 09:09 PM
First the "Let's all go back to wooden racquets!" nonsense and now comparing Agassi to Roger Clemens? Perhaps Martina needs to realize that nobody really cares what her next "don't forget about me!" comment is going to be. Ridiculous.

TheNatural
11-04-2009, 11:24 PM
in his book did Agassi explain why he kept popping those pills before his matches to help him cheat even though his brother warned him not to take the pills no matter what! I guess Agassi liked the way the pills helped him cheat and didn't want to forego this advantage.

el sergento
11-05-2009, 09:21 AM
You have to be really nieve to think someone experiments with meth.

Its like your first drink being everclear instead of a beer/wine.

His assistant just drops an ounce of meth on his table and he says nothing? If someone did that at your house im sure you would say something unless its been previously reguarded as ok.

EXACTLY!!

Lest we forget that Andre went Hollywood; by the time Slim pulled out the Crystal Meth and shoved it in Andre's face, Andre was probably already drunk, high (weed, coke) or both.

If you are sober and have never touched drugs beforehand, you don't just casually do a rail of meth because your assistant cuts it in front of you.

Regardless, I still don't agree with any retroactive punishment or tallyho asterisk slinging on his achievements. Recreational drugs are not the same as performance enhancing supplements. If anything, the drugs and self esteem issues (toupee) clearly prevented AA from having an even better career.

el sergento
11-05-2009, 09:30 AM
"accidentally drinking a soda spiked with meth"

What??? they accepted THAT???

I believe the exact wording of the letter was:

My dog stole my toupee while I was having my asscheeks waxed and after chasing him all around the house I was really thirsty so Slim gave me a Pepsi (the taste of a new generation (tm).) laced with meth.

The ATP felt really bad for him so they just let it slide :twisted:

Puma
11-05-2009, 11:28 AM
First the "Let's all go back to wooden racquets!" nonsense and now comparing Agassi to Roger Clemens? Perhaps Martina needs to realize that nobody really cares what her next "don't forget about me!" comment is going to be. Ridiculous.

Yep!!!!!!!!!! She is the most obvious ego-maniac ever on a tv broadcast. Her comments about the grips now used and her ever taking the opportunity to say how great she it, makes me puke!

Aces09
11-05-2009, 02:19 PM
I really hate how people are so ****ed off about this, it was 12 years ago, BFD if he used meth, BFD if he lied about it, BFD if he got away with it, it was way back before drug testing was a huge deal. Agassi was dealing with alot emotionally and meth was his escape. I feel bad for people addicted to drugs, it's got to be a horrifying lifestyle. I really hope people ease off Agassi. Then again, I highly doubt he cares, he's rolling in benjamin's already and i'm certain that after all this controversy, his book will sell like crazy and soon he'll need a second bank vault for all his gigantic stacks of cash and gold bars.

Another thing i'm worried about, how will his kids see this? Like, his kids are at school and undoubtedly the parents of their classmates will be talking about this, since they probably loved that their kid was in the same class as one of andre's kids, and if their classmates hear about his drug use and start talking to his kids about it, that could mess them up. Maybe they'll think it's okay to do drugs, I really hope Andre talked to them about the meth use before releasing such huge information into the world.

Aces09
11-05-2009, 02:22 PM
Oh, and f**k martina...you'd think she'd have a bit more respect for one of the games fellow legends, there must be some bad blood there.

Honestly, Martina, put yourself in Andre's shoes back in '97. Your ranking is in the toilet, you feel like your life is spinning out of control and you think your career is over. You get caught using a drug and you come up with a clever lie to get yourself 100% off the hook. Would Martina have really taken the punishment and have been banned from tennis for 3 months (or whatever the punishment was back then) or would she have lied and gotten to keep playing? I'm sure martina has lied plenty of times. Get off your high horse, B**ch

Blinkism
11-05-2009, 02:23 PM
Another thing i'm worried about, how will his kids see this? Like, his kids are at school and undoubtedly the parents of their classmates will be talking about this, since they probably loved that their kid was in the same class as one of andre's kids, and if their classmates hear about his drug use and start talking to his kids about it, that could mess them up. Maybe they'll think it's okay to do drugs, I really hope Andre talked to them about the meth use before releasing such huge information into the world.

http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/think_of_the_children.jpg

WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis
11-05-2009, 03:28 PM
News of Roger Clemens might have been all over the news in the USA, but not the rest of the world. The rest of the world has its own news and sports figures to be concerned with, even if millions follow international sports like tennis and do know more prominent names. Baseball is generally NOT a sport many Europeans follow.

Yes, some GLBT people do take exception to being compared to people who lie about their drug usage. For Martina, of all people, to compare that...is really outside of enough, and not very well thought out of her. One understands the parallel of keeping something hidden, but for many GBLT people it's a slap in the face to connect these two things. Person opinions aside about either subject, they are simply and basically not the same.

Martina has the right to speak her mind in the same way André choose to reveal embarrassing and negative occurences in his past. But if you are going to say such things, be prepared that people are going to voice their say to it also, she probably doesn't give a flying **** for those who don't agree with her analogy.

Andrè very likely knew well what a majority of the response would be, but at this point in his life, with a fine wife by his side, a supporting family and that kind of confidence and self-acceptance not everyone acquires at his age, this was probably a great relief to finally reveal this. He was never a favourite of mine, past or present, but I wish him well and feel certain he won't let the whiners and fist-shakers take anything away from his joy. He came "clean", sure as hell a lot of other sports figures have not and never intend to.

TennisD
11-05-2009, 03:35 PM
EXACTLY!!

Lest we forget that Andre went Hollywood; by the time Slim pulled out the Crystal Meth and shoved it in Andre's face, Andre was probably already drunk, high (weed, coke) or both.

If you are sober and have never touched drugs beforehand, you don't just casually do a rail of meth because your assistant cuts it in front of you.

Regardless, I still don't agree with any retroactive punishment or tallyho asterisk slinging on his achievements. Recreational drugs are not the same as performance enhancing supplements. If anything, the drugs and self esteem issues (toupee) clearly prevented AA from having an even better career.
Drunk, high on pot and coke? It almost sounds like you were there! :rolleyes:

Again, it's really funny to see just how judgmental people are being over the whole event. "Someone who's sober would NEVER try drugs!", "He was PROBABLY high already, that rapscallion!". Everyone seems to be imposing their own sense of morality (whether it's real or simply for show) on Agassi when, to be quite honest, none of us have the right to do so. I'm not defending his actions, but he was clearly at or near rock bottom at the time of the incident, and saying that someone would NEVER, under ANY circumstances do drugs just because they happen to be available is both naive and incredibly presumptuous. When under great stress/at difficult times in their lives many, many, many people make bad decisions, decisions that they might not have made otherwise. Hell, lots of people make bad decisions/mistakes for no reason at all, though I highly doubt that this was the case here. The point is, to make such sweeping assumptions about Agassi and his state of mind during that part of his life is, for lack of a better word, stupid.

el sergento
11-05-2009, 08:44 PM
Drunk, high on pot and coke? It almost sounds like you were there! :rolleyes:

Again, it's really funny to see just how judgmental people are being over the whole event. "Someone who's sober would NEVER try drugs!", "He was PROBABLY high already, that rapscallion!". Everyone seems to be imposing their own sense of morality (whether it's real or simply for show) on Agassi when, to be quite honest, none of us have the right to do so. I'm not defending his actions, but he was clearly at or near rock bottom at the time of the incident, and saying that someone would NEVER, under ANY circumstances do drugs just because they happen to be available is both naive and incredibly presumptuous. When under great stress/at difficult times in their lives many, many, many people make bad decisions, decisions that th might not have made otherwise. Hell, lots of people make bad decisions/mistakes for no reason at all, though I highly doubt that this was the case here. The point is, to make such sweeping assumptions about Agassi and his state of mind during that part of his life is, for lack of a better word, stupid.

Sorry, but what I find stupid, and naive I might add, is thinking that a wealthy nadcisistic athlete that happened to be dating a big Hollywood celebrity, had a meth addled assistant named Slim that would spike his soda and had deep rooted emotional issues stemming from an autocratic father that fed him speed at a young age "had never done drugs before" and only first decided to experiment with crystal meth, one of the most addictive and lethal substances in the world.........yeah right!:roll:

As for the moralizing, go back and read the second part of my post. I clearly state that his career and achievments should not be discredited because he disd drugs recreationally, in fact, I don't mention his character at all.

SquashPlayer
11-06-2009, 08:20 AM
I think never before from the Tennis world have we gotten a bunch of poseurs like we've gotten in the aftermath of the Agassi "confession" to using Meth. The Royal Poseur award goes to Navratilova, who compared Agassi to Roger Clemens. Well.

I was a Navratilova fan when it wasn't in vogue, when she played the role of the villain opposite the people's hero, Chris Evert. I could care less that she is gay, and I felt for her given her tortured career. I admired her work ethic and intellect.

No more.

It wasn't just the Agassi comment. She's been chipping away at respectability for a while now. Now she's put the nail in it.

Observe:

1) the details revealed of her private life don't reveal a giving considerate person, she apparently discarded her last partner like trash

2) in recent years, observing her combative commentary on the air, it's really grated on me. It's not that she's not entitled to her opinion, it's just that she's frequently dismissive of her broadcast partners (maybe like her private life partners)

3) now, the Agassi comment

Out of left field. Makes you wonder what kind of relationship was there beforehand that she so quickly took the opportunity to pounce.

Comparing Agassi to Clemens ? Lets see, she fails the intellect test there.
Clemens was a starting pitcher when he took performance enhancing drugs, and that is alleged. Agassi ? Out of the top 100, the drug he took wouldn't help him crush any backhands, far from it. I wonder if Agassi's religious beliefs are what is at the heart of this attack.

I'm done with Navratilova. She's an aging, self-absorbed poseur

RoddickFan
11-06-2009, 11:28 AM
who the fu.ck is navratilova? and second, to the idiot who thinks that agassi was taking pills before the match to give him an advanatge is a fu.cking stupid idiot, i believe it was the natural or some name like that, like what advantage would it give him? a better "sex drive"? Like think before you say somthing stupid like that.

LafayetteHitter
11-06-2009, 11:46 AM
Navratilova is just an angry feminist that can't get passed the fact that she has a face like a horse.

mtommer
11-06-2009, 12:56 PM
Yeah, he's done a lot of good since then, with his Academy,

I wonder if this had something to do with it. Being a hypocrit to kids can wear on the conscience.