PDA

View Full Version : KEEP LOSING ! Advice NEEDED.


Jtruong70
10-29-2009, 07:28 PM
I keep losing to one of my teammates. He has an all around game and likes to go up to the net. I was up 5-2 and then he switched up his game. He started to push the ball and just act like he didn't care, but he got me frustrated and beat me 7-5 6-2. He's tall and pushes the ball when his normal strategy doesn't work>?? What can I do to tire him out out or beat him?

MayDay
10-29-2009, 10:22 PM
I don't really know either - but I did beat pushers before - it took a lot of patience and time to figure out a pusher. The first time playing a pusher took me 3 hours for a single set. My legs were sore for days.

Be a better pusher? See if you can out-push him? That's kinda what I did, until I figured out how and when I can consistantly jump on the ball for winners (where and when I can keep the ball in and not overhit).

Since there is no pace on the ball, you will have to focus on the ball a lot more when you setup and execute your swing. I think that was the most important thing which helped me held on to the points. Keep focus on the ball, and not the opponent. You probably have to also get down (bend more) to hit the balls properly if you don't get to the ball in time, but focusing on the ball should naturally make you adjust your body to properly hit the ball.

marsh
10-30-2009, 05:53 AM
In my limited experience, I find that most pushers also have relaxed footwork. As a result I find the best way to deal with them is to move them around the court and get them out of position. This opens up that put away that provides a nice exclamation point in these types of matches.

Fedace
10-30-2009, 06:14 AM
come to the net and play agressive game. Mix in some dropshots, good ones.

dozu
10-30-2009, 06:15 AM
yup - outlasting him is the way to go.

if he pushes - you still have to have a balanced mind and controlled aggression. when I play against such an opp, my mindset is always like this -

ok, here comes a softie - I am gonna judge by his position, and decide going for outright winner is the percentage play.... and usually, if he has good footwork, and early in the point, it is NOT the percentage play.... and my goal is just to run his *** all over.. put spin on it, and go for wide angles (still aiming a couple of feed inside the line to give you margin for error though).

ok, here is another softie - is he out of position? if no, run his *** again. if yes - go for a winner, or an approach shot and follow up with easy volley put away.

where people get in trouble is when they see a softball they don't have the right expectation... going for winner is not the right thing to do.

If you play this way, your opp will have to run twice as much and breath 4 times as hard as you do... so even if he can keep it close in the first few games, he will be punished so hard that often times he will be forced out of the push mode and go for more, and often times this makes his game worse because he is now tired and often out of position.

I personally get so much satisfaction in punishing pushers - I wish the point never end so I can pull him wide left and right for 20 strokes in a row. and I love to see the paleness on his face after such a point :)

you should have the same mind set.

I want to add 1 more thing - sometimes a pusher will add loft (loopiness) to the ball so he has more time to recover.... this is when you will need to mix up just a little by taking the net once in a while, just to keep him honest.... other than that, just punish away :)

fuzz nation
10-30-2009, 07:04 AM
At least you're not alone. According to studies, approximately 50% of all people who play tennis matches lose. Go figure.

Now check your head and bring your lunchbox to the next match with that guy. Own up to the reality that you're going to have to keep a lot more balls in play. This is no easy feat, but if your expectations are more in touch with reality, you'll be more likely to do what it takes to earn your points.

When he comes to net, put some low balls down on his feet instead of swinging like a rock star on a low percentage attempt. If he pushes, it's usually a bad bet to follow an opponent down that road. Try making him move a little and also going to net yourself a bit more.

Tennis16
10-30-2009, 07:13 AM
For the longest time I would always lose to the pusher. I would just get frustrated, and go for the winner. That was completely wrong. I have realized that my best approach was to play percentage tennis, and move him around the court as much as possible. My objective was to wear him down, and demonstrate that I am mentally tougher. Take out the legs.

user92626
10-30-2009, 09:16 AM
At this point in my progression I no longer understand the issue of pusher like you guys describe here. Tennis at our level is ...just a matter of hitting the ball well and better than your opponent. That's all. It's like a circus act. Whoever can juggle more balls and is more coordinated is gonna come out on top.

i play with a wide range of people and skills. I don't care who hits like what. As long as they can get the ball in the court it is my turn to play the ball back and well. Ever since I started to think of tennis as an efficiency & skill of using your body and limbs, my win/lose ratio really increased.

How can you lose to older folks, hackers, or anybody who can't move as well as you, hit lower paced, lower percentage, ie less spin, know less strategies than you?

federer_FREAK
10-30-2009, 09:28 AM
[QUOTE=fuzz nation;4066780]At least you're not alone. According to studies, approximately 50% of all people who play tennis matches lose. Go figure.QUOTE]

I'm gonna need to see some proof. :)

federer_FREAK
10-30-2009, 09:29 AM
^can't edit messed up the quote haha

Fedace
10-30-2009, 09:37 AM
:confused:^can't edit messed up the quote haha

Are you Nadal Freak's brother ??:confused:

federer_FREAK
10-30-2009, 10:41 AM
:confused:

Are you Nadal Freak's brother ??:confused:

His evil twin.

xFullCourtTenniSx
10-30-2009, 11:06 AM
I keep losing to one of my teammates. He has an all around game and likes to go up to the net. I was up 5-2 and then he switched up his game. He started to push the ball and just act like he didn't care, but he got me frustrated and beat me 7-5 6-2. He's tall and pushes the ball when his normal strategy doesn't work>?? What can I do to tire him out out or beat him?

Pushers are easily dealt with when you know what will push them around.

If they like to play far behind the baseline, move them with angles and take the net. Finish things off with a volley. From so far behind the baseline, they can't do anything if you can play the net decently enough.

If they play from a normal position but just get everything back in, let them. But make them run for everything. Unless they're actually placing the ball deep crosscourt each time (which means they aren't a legitimate pusher), you'll get plenty of looks at balls near the center of the court and maybe even close to the service line. Make them run around all day. Don't go for a winner. Just roll your shots side to side, and occasionally hitting behind them. Don't go for anything big. This is a tactic Agassi did to bring down the energetic youth down to even the playing field in terms of physicality, but it can also be used to flat out destroy someone that can't hurt you from the baseline. It's actually a tactic I favor against a friend of mine. Once I get control of the point, I'm just sitting there in the center of the baseline a few feet in rolling balls side to side and throwing a few behind him for winners. Then again, I take the ball on the rise pretty well so I take even more time away from him...

If their serves are weak (especially the second serve), PUNISH IT! Punish it, and attack the net!

Every point you have two simple options: attack and get to the net or rally patiently while controlling the point.

You can do first strike tennis and win things quickly while taking some risks, or just be patient and wear them down.

Once you get to the point where pushers become counterpunchers, you have to combine both while also throwing in other tactics. But since this guy favors playing the net, I wouldn't recommend the drop shot unless you have a good one you can consistently use to win points outright or set up points with.

At a higher level, you have more options, but each option loses effectiveness because you'll have to execute on a higher level. However, the same basic plan works, but you might have to add on to it or add your own touch that will most effectively work against the specific player you are facing.

My friend, who is more of the in between of a pusher and a counterpuncher (pushes a little, but isn't a full on counterpuncher) sometimes requires more intricate tactics to beat him, so I keep things varied. I'll throw in some serve and volley while also attacking the net on short balls, do some change ups in spins, and always look to move him around and mess with his positioning using placement and spin. He can hit with moderate topspin from both wings, is far more consistent than most people give him credit for, doesn't hit with power, is faster than most people give him credit for, can hit passing shots relatively well, has a serve in the 80s-90s (mph; first serve), and will eventually start pushing balls (high slices) in when on the defensive. So the idea here is to punish the serve to get the first short ball. From there, move the opponent side to side while also messing with his consistency by changing up height, pace, and spins. Use placement and angles to open up the court to the deep ball behind him or a winner into the open court. Use low approach shots to the backhand to get the easy volley or the easy overhead. (I've used that one to such consistency and success that all he could think of when remembering points with me at the net is low slice approach, volley into open court, overhead winner into opposite side.)

Then there's this other player, who is a full on legitimate pusher. My strategy against him is simple: whack the service return, and charge the net for either a drop volley winner or an angled volley winner (hell a regular volley works too); then on serve throw in kickers (for high percentage) and charge the net and finish in the same fashion. He plays 10-15 feet behind the baseline, uses a very short bunt stroke off both wings, is much faster than people give him credit for, throws up many high and deep (but in the center of the baseline), and has an EXTREMELY weak serve that is slow and lands short with little penetration (especially the second where it sits up as well). When he's so far behind the baseline, how can he consistently look to pass me? And I have so much open court to hit to, especially after I've put him off to the side with an aggressive return or kept him back to hit a weak shot with a kick serve. If I hit it short, he has to run VERY far to get it (though he can get to those that aren't hit well), if I angle it he's not going to even get a racket on it, and if I hit it deep I either win the point as well or he tries to pass me again, which repeats the cycle until I win the point cause he can't chase down another volley.

Both of these players I'd estimate to be a 4.0 NTRP (for the first one I'd be very confident in that estimate whereas the second player might just be a 3.5). They're consistent and play deep when they aren't on the run. But at the 4.0 level, a good all court game and understanding of the court as well as your tools can tear apart any pusher as long as you focus on execution.

Back when I was maybe a 3.5-4.0, the second pusher had me beat for the first half of the set because I couldn't figure out what to do. I was even giving in mentally to the idea that "I shouldn't lose to a sh*tty player like him. He bunts the stroke and I take full swings with plenty of topspin and pace." Once I figured him out, everything became nothing but repetition and things became simple. Back then, consistency from the ground wasn't my forte (and neither was patience or shot selection from back there), so playing that kind of game against him was plain suicide. But volleying and approach shots (especially off sitters like his second serve) were my forte, and they worked just as well as me out-rallying him or blowing him off the court.

The counterpuncher however would play a solid game, but I knew he couldn't possibly hurt me from anywhere on the court, and by then I had already developed consistent groundstrokes with plenty of spin and pace. If I really needed to, I could outrally him, outhit him, and flat out outplay him as long as I didn't beat myself and pile up errors. The last time he beat me, I'd like to blame the strings in the racket I was using (I was borrowing his nSix.One 95 since I snapped my strings earlier that day), but in addition to me not being able to keep balls in, he played well by not missing and gave me a rough time by constantly forcing me to get into long rallies, where he knew I'd eventually miss one.

You have to give credit where credit is due. You lose to someone, then they played better at that day in that match/set. That's it. Go home, re-evaluate your tactics and strategy, and ask yourself "Was the problem that I didn't execute the tactics and strategy properly, or that the tactics and strategy were being executed perfectly and it didn't work on my opponent?" You must always have a game plan. Doesn't matter if it's as simple as "bash the ball all day long" or "don't miss", just have SOME plan going in and out of the match, and stick with it. All court players own multiple plans and can switch instantly once they recognize one plan isn't working even though it's being executed perfectly. The next time I played him, I decimated him (using my racket and strings of course) using the same strategy, but with a little more variation to shorten the points in my favor.

I also have a friend, who I would consider a 4.0-4.5 all court player with great counterpunching groundstrokes, but I think you've had enough examples for one post. Plus, beating him is a far more complex beast than for the two I already mentioned.

I could go over all my strategies that I have with different types of players. Bottom line, find a game plan that works, and stick with it.

P.S. I would actually recommend throwing in some deep, low slices as well, seeing as he is tall. Throw in some short ones too, just keep them low! (and off to one side would make things even better as well)

Mick
10-30-2009, 11:25 AM
imo a pusher cannot win by himself unless you help him out by making lots of unforced errors.

so, don't help him by cutting down on your unforced errors.

Ripper014
10-30-2009, 02:53 PM
Pushers are the hardest opponents in tennis to beat, their whole state of mind is not to beat themselves. The reason they win playing this game is that they do it better than thier opponents. In order for you not to play his game and beat him is for you to play a high percentage aggressive game. Just coming to the net is not going to win it for you... most pushers not only can run down most balls but have effective lobs.

Patience is the key... being able to recognize a weak short ball and taking advantage of it, knowing when the pusher is going give you a weak return and going to the net to pick it off for the winner. Letting the pusher get to a ball comfortably usually means having the point go back to an neutral stance with a defensive lob, so taking advantage of a good situation is key. Most pushers I have played with are also pretty good counter punchers... though they do not have the same power they can still be very effective.

I have always said... pushers have a houseful of trophies and no friends, and being able to beat one can be definitely challenge. So if you are unable to out gun him... you need to take your time earn every point.

ubermeyer
10-30-2009, 04:13 PM
First of all, unless the pusher is way below your level, you cannot outpush a pusher (unless you always play like a pusher as well). This is because they have been honing their pushing game for much longer than you and you can't just simply switch to that and beat them at it, unless you are much better than them.

Jtruong70
10-30-2009, 05:26 PM
Pushers are easily dealt with when you know what will push them around.

If they like to play far behind the baseline, move them with angles and take the net. Finish things off with a volley. From so far behind the baseline, they can't do anything if you can play the net decently enough.

If they play from a normal position but just get everything back in, let them. But make them run for everything. Unless they're actually placing the ball deep crosscourt each time (which means they aren't a legitimate pusher), you'll get plenty of looks at balls near the center of the court and maybe even close to the service line. Make them run around all day. Don't go for a winner. Just roll your shots side to side, and occasionally hitting behind them. Don't go for anything big. This is a tactic Agassi did to bring down the energetic youth down to even the playing field in terms of physicality, but it can also be used to flat out destroy someone that can't hurt you from the baseline. It's actually a tactic I favor against a friend of mine. Once I get control of the point, I'm just sitting there in the center of the baseline a few feet in rolling balls side to side and throwing a few behind him for winners. Then again, I take the ball on the rise pretty well so I take even more time away from him...

If their serves are weak (especially the second serve), PUNISH IT! Punish it, and attack the net!

Every point you have two simple options: attack and get to the net or rally patiently while controlling the point.

You can do first strike tennis and win things quickly while taking some risks, or just be patient and wear them down.

Once you get to the point where pushers become counterpunchers, you have to combine both while also throwing in other tactics. But since this guy favors playing the net, I wouldn't recommend the drop shot unless you have a good one you can consistently use to win points outright or set up points with.

At a higher level, you have more options, but each option loses effectiveness because you'll have to execute on a higher level. However, the same basic plan works, but you might have to add on to it or add your own touch that will most effectively work against the specific player you are facing.

My friend, who is more of the in between of a pusher and a counterpuncher (pushes a little, but isn't a full on counterpuncher) sometimes requires more intricate tactics to beat him, so I keep things varied. I'll throw in some serve and volley while also attacking the net on short balls, do some change ups in spins, and always look to move him around and mess with his positioning using placement and spin. He can hit with moderate topspin from both wings, is far more consistent than most people give him credit for, doesn't hit with power, is faster than most people give him credit for, can hit passing shots relatively well, has a serve in the 80s-90s (mph; first serve), and will eventually start pushing balls (high slices) in when on the defensive. So the idea here is to punish the serve to get the first short ball. From there, move the opponent side to side while also messing with his consistency by changing up height, pace, and spins. Use placement and angles to open up the court to the deep ball behind him or a winner into the open court. Use low approach shots to the backhand to get the easy volley or the easy overhead. (I've used that one to such consistency and success that all he could think of when remembering points with me at the net is low slice approach, volley into open court, overhead winner into opposite side.)

Then there's this other player, who is a full on legitimate pusher. My strategy against him is simple: whack the service return, and charge the net for either a drop volley winner or an angled volley winner (hell a regular volley works too); then on serve throw in kickers (for high percentage) and charge the net and finish in the same fashion. He plays 10-15 feet behind the baseline, uses a very short bunt stroke off both wings, is much faster than people give him credit for, throws up many high and deep (but in the center of the baseline), and has an EXTREMELY weak serve that is slow and lands short with little penetration (especially the second where it sits up as well). When he's so far behind the baseline, how can he consistently look to pass me? And I have so much open court to hit to, especially after I've put him off to the side with an aggressive return or kept him back to hit a weak shot with a kick serve. If I hit it short, he has to run VERY far to get it (though he can get to those that aren't hit well), if I angle it he's not going to even get a racket on it, and if I hit it deep I either win the point as well or he tries to pass me again, which repeats the cycle until I win the point cause he can't chase down another volley.

Both of these players I'd estimate to be a 4.0 NTRP (for the first one I'd be very confident in that estimate whereas the second player might just be a 3.5). They're consistent and play deep when they aren't on the run. But at the 4.0 level, a good all court game and understanding of the court as well as your tools can tear apart any pusher as long as you focus on execution.

Back when I was maybe a 3.5-4.0, the second pusher had me beat for the first half of the set because I couldn't figure out what to do. I was even giving in mentally to the idea that "I shouldn't lose to a sh*tty player like him. He bunts the stroke and I take full swings with plenty of topspin and pace." Once I figured him out, everything became nothing but repetition and things became simple. Back then, consistency from the ground wasn't my forte (and neither was patience or shot selection from back there), so playing that kind of game against him was plain suicide. But volleying and approach shots (especially off sitters like his second serve) were my forte, and they worked just as well as me out-rallying him or blowing him off the court.

The counterpuncher however would play a solid game, but I knew he couldn't possibly hurt me from anywhere on the court, and by then I had already developed consistent groundstrokes with plenty of spin and pace. If I really needed to, I could outrally him, outhit him, and flat out outplay him as long as I didn't beat myself and pile up errors. The last time he beat me, I'd like to blame the strings in the racket I was using (I was borrowing his nSix.One 95 since I snapped my strings earlier that day), but in addition to me not being able to keep balls in, he played well by not missing and gave me a rough time by constantly forcing me to get into long rallies, where he knew I'd eventually miss one.

You have to give credit where credit is due. You lose to someone, then they played better at that day in that match/set. That's it. Go home, re-evaluate your tactics and strategy, and ask yourself "Was the problem that I didn't execute the tactics and strategy properly, or that the tactics and strategy were being executed perfectly and it didn't work on my opponent?" You must always have a game plan. Doesn't matter if it's as simple as "bash the ball all day long" or "don't miss", just have SOME plan going in and out of the match, and stick with it. All court players own multiple plans and can switch instantly once they recognize one plan isn't working even though it's being executed perfectly. The next time I played him, I decimated him (using my racket and strings of course) using the same strategy, but with a little more variation to shorten the points in my favor.

I also have a friend, who I would consider a 4.0-4.5 all court player with great counterpunching groundstrokes, but I think you've had enough examples for one post. Plus, beating him is a far more complex beast than for the two I already mentioned.

I could go over all my strategies that I have with different types of players. Bottom line, find a game plan that works, and stick with it.

P.S. I would actually recommend throwing in some deep, low slices as well, seeing as he is tall. Throw in some short ones too, just keep them low! (and off to one side would make things even better as well)

Thanks so much for everyone's detailed responses. Theres one thing that I can't beat which is his slow Slice Serve! Its like he throws it in the air and slices it down that it bounces too low to get it off the rise. What do I do with this serve?Again, Thanks EVERYONE!

MayDay
10-30-2009, 06:50 PM
What do you normally do with a low sliced ball during ralley? It should be about the same, unless there is a whole bunch of pace on it, then you might have to adjust for shorter swing or hit it with continental grip forhand.

xFullCourtTenniSx
10-31-2009, 12:11 AM
Just coming to the net is not going to win it for you... most pushers not only can run down most balls but have effective lobs.

I'd like to see a pusher bust out a great topspin lob on me off a big return or a high kicking serve because I know he isn't going to lob me off the volley. I'm not sitting that volley up. I'm punching it and putting it off to the side.

Granted it won't work on every pusher, but this tactic was designed for a specific pusher, who's court positioning was so horrible that I would exploit it by playing the net. He was fast, but it didn't matter because he was always in a bad position to reach my volleys. And I was always ready for the next shot. Normal people won't get anywhere close to those volleys, but pushers get within 2 steps each time so you always have to be ready for those times they'll actually put a racket on it.

Volleys were my strong point and I almost always played a very good angled volley into the open court as a standard volley. Very rarely did I use the deep volley, but when I did it was a solid shot as well.

Think of your strengths, and use them to set up points. Many of us ask for tactics to beat pushers, but how many of us REALLY think and apply those tactics? How many of us think of something OTHER than "blow him off the court" or "out-push him"? And yet when they ask for responses the answers are always the same. "Move him side to side", "be patient until you get a clear opportunity to attack", "charge the net", "chance the pace, height, and spins of the ball", "cut down on errors". Of course, you want to use whatever your strengths are in order to execute these tactics. Back then would I have tried to move him side to side with groundstrokes and avoid errors? No. It just wasn't my strength, so I used volleys instead and made sure I always had him on the full run starting with the approach shot. This specific pusher was so far behind the baseline that the idea of not playing the net was stupid if it's your strength. The whole court is open to angles. No singular strategy works against everyone unless it's "blow the guy off the court" or "don't miss and get every one of his shots back in" and you have the game to execute it perfectly. Few people can blow everyone off the court (if any), and just as few can come close to chasing down every shot and never miss. It's all about finding a working strategy that works and that you know you can back up.

First of all, unless the pusher is way below your level, you cannot outpush a pusher (unless you always play like a pusher as well). This is because they have been honing their pushing game for much longer than you and you can't just simply switch to that and beat them at it, unless you are much better than them.

Oh~~~~ yeah~~~~... They were way~~~~ below my level. :) Then again, at my level, pushers don't exist, which is why, like I said, the 4.0 one is more of a counterpuncher than a legit pusher. But I still decimated him because I'm more consistent, I have far more options on the court, and actually think on the court. I swing way faster, and took some off my shots, turned it to spin, and increased my consistency and focused on placement. If you can back them up and move them side to side, the court becomes open to nearly any shot.

And my main focus on practice is shot consistency. Power and spin come on their own easily. Consistency is something you need to keep fine tuned at least now and then and something you need in order to reach the higher levels of the game.

A 4.0 or 3.5 pusher's consistency can't match (or is equivalent to) the rally ball consistency of a 4.5-5.0 player. The heavy spin always helps out-push the pusher. :)

Still, you can play VERY consistent tennis that will beat a pusher if you focus on nothing but heavy spin to the sides to move them around and around. Eventually they'll run out of gas.

Even if you're on the same level, you just have to find something you can rely on and use it to your advantage. Don't use shots you don't own. Too many people try to pull out shots they don't own all day and lose because of it.

Thanks so much for everyone's detailed responses. Theres one thing that I can't beat which is his slow Slice Serve! Its like he throws it in the air and slices it down that it bounces too low to get it off the rise. What do I do with this serve?Again, Thanks EVERYONE!

Move up, get low, and lob it deep unless you know how to successfully drive a low ball. In all seriousness, it doesn't matter what shot you pick, as long as you get the ball deep and place it to a side.

skyzoo
10-31-2009, 08:53 AM
At least you're not alone. According to studies, approximately 50% of all people who play tennis matches lose. Go figure.

Now check your head and bring your lunchbox to the next match with that guy. Own up to the reality that you're going to have to keep a lot more balls in play. This is no easy feat, but if your expectations are more in touch with reality, you'll be more likely to do what it takes to earn your points.

When he comes to net, put some low balls down on his feet instead of swinging like a rock star on a low percentage attempt. If he pushes, it's usually a bad bet to follow an opponent down that road. Try making him move a little and also going to net yourself a bit more.
Word's of wisdom Fuzz. What if you happen to have no patience at all. tough luck than?

Slazenger07
11-02-2009, 02:59 AM
My Friend is sort of pusher, Id actually call him a "chop shoter" he loves the slice off both sides and he can hit it all day if you dont attack him. He used to kill me when we played cause he just wouldnt miss and he could wear me out. Now Im happy to say I dominate our matches, 11 straight sets won by me, because of my use of heavy topspin, particularly off my forehand. By using heavy topspin, I can be more consistent than he is and Im more aggressive in the process, so basically heavy topspin allows me to wear him down and push him back, not to mention continually make him hit balls that are shoulder high and often times bouncing higher than that. Eventually he will cough up a short ball from my heavy, high bouncing spin shots, and then I step inside the court and unleash my massive forehand on him, which is def my best shot. It has worked brilliantly for me, hopefully you can employ the same tactic and beat your pusher friend. Also try to come to net a little more often, to disrupt his rhythm, hes likely to be surprised by this and give you easy floaters to put away. Dont over do it though, if he's anything like my friend his lob will be damn good.

bbbbbb
11-02-2009, 07:00 AM
i love how you guys ignored the first part of the OP post.He said hes an all court player that was playing net but then suddenly started pushing.Im all court to so for me if the OP started being able to deal with the pushing id jus change styles again then all that anti pushing advice becomes useless right?

JRstriker12
11-02-2009, 07:10 AM
i love how you guys ignored the first part of the OP post.He said hes an all court player that was playing net but then suddenly started pushing.Im all court to so for me if the OP started being able to deal with the pushing id jus change styles again then all that anti pushing advice becomes useless right?

If you read the OP - he also said that his friend switches to pushing when the all-court game isn't working. The OP also said he was up and winning 5-2, but was defeated by his friend's pushing tactic.

Bottom line is, the OP needs to be more consistent than his friend if he gets beat by his friend's "pushing" - which based on the history of this board means "Help!! I can't sustain a rally for more than 5 strokes! Darn pushers....."

xFullCourtTenniSx
11-02-2009, 05:20 PM
"Help!! I can't sustain a rally for more than 5 strokes! Darn pushers....."

Wonder what their thoughts will be when they have to hit 10+ shots on the run while putting all you have into each shot just to win a point...

Hell, that's not even the worst it can get, not even close. Once you're at the 4.5 level, everything is minimal 10 quality strokes on the run to win a point. And if you guys aren't running side to side that often, it can easily take 20+ shots each before someone cracks. Though if you sit around waiting for errors, it'll take 30+... By then you're going crazy.

Under match pressure, 30+ is incredible, but that's under the conditions that both are playing very safe shots crosscourt and waiting for errors. I've seen two girls get this far using heavy topspin and playing crosscourt backhands all day long for what seemed to be 50 topspin crosscourt shots per point before someone cracked. Though one of those two players is naturally an aggressive player, and can easily crack around 10 shots when she's going for it. Though that still means rallies of nearly 20 shots while being aggressive before she misses one! And for the other player to last that long, she has to be a great mover as well as be a great hitter on the run to constantly get back deep topspin shots to keep the other player from getting an easy look at a winner.

Monfils and Nadal can get their numbers up into the high 20s and low 30s on hard courts! Hell, it's pretty common for Monfils to get it up close to 50! Under match pressure that is pretty incredible! :shock:

Slazenger07
11-03-2009, 07:19 AM
i love how you guys ignored the first part of the OP post.He said hes an all court player that was playing net but then suddenly started pushing.Im all court to so for me if the OP started being able to deal with the pushing id jus change styles again then all that anti pushing advice becomes useless right?

Nobodies ignoring ****.

Slazenger07
11-03-2009, 07:31 AM
If your friend stops pushing and starts attacking you can easily use the heavy topspin shots to dip the ball at his feet and make for very tough volleys, if he can still make the volley off of your dipping topspin youve gotta tip your hat to him, but the odds are in your favor in that case.

teppeiahn1
11-03-2009, 07:36 AM
Dont ever play that "who can push longer" battle. you will be them.

Get stronger and improve footwork. Run around soft balls and keep damaging the pusher.

You said his a tall guy? slice to his backhand and short, come in and easy finish.

Tennis is about strategies too but its hard to create strategies when you cant dictate play or have nothing to back you up.

So to make things simple, keep practicing, dont try to win ugly, it won't lead you in the right path.

SlapChop
11-03-2009, 08:00 AM
A win is a win ugly or not.

Mick
11-03-2009, 09:14 AM
A win is a win ugly or not.

brad gilbert said he would rather win a lousy match than to lose an epic match :shock:

Jmu008
11-03-2009, 11:46 AM
In my experience, pushers win for one of two reasons.

1) They can outlast you in a rally.

2) You don't have much control over your shot either.

Basically, pushers are designed to outlast you. They can get it over, and while the shot doesn't look hard to hit back, it's frustrating to know that you're going nowhere. Sooner or later, you're going to go for an angled shot, only to miss it.

Now, the simplest ways to beat a pusher are:

1) Get better in your rally ability. If you can outlast a pusher, then do it. Don't give in to the temptation to end the point. (Not recommended)

2) Aim for angles. Assuming that you can hit an angled shot with plenty of spin and power 75% of the time, you should be able to beat a pusher. (Somewhat recommended)

3) Go up to net. Pushers usually cannot hit angles/ are unwilling to, so basically going up to net is a safe way to finish the point. If you notice a lot of lobbing, make sure you've got that overhead down before you go. (Highly Recommended)

~Hopefully you'll learn to cream pushers for breakfast one day! :)