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Tdot
10-30-2009, 01:17 PM
STOP CALLING NADAL A JUICER !!

Seriously, if you ever get into weight liftings or bodybuilding you will know that someone of nadal's size is nothing compared to those who did do steroids (google mr. olympia). I've seen guys in the gym who are about the same size of nadal or even bigger yet they do not do any steroids at all.

You don't need steroids to get nadal-ish. Just take an adequate amount of protein, work out (smart+hard) and I can gurantee that you will see results. Nadal might have used stuff like creatine and nitric oxide to enhance his performance and muscle definition but those things are nothing like steroids !

For now, stop calling him a juicer unless you have some kind of concrete evidence. I'm a fed fan myself however that does now prevent me from appreciating nadal's talent. In terms of diligence and dedication, I consider him to be one of the top dogs in tennis right now. As such, lay off the childish attacks and just enjoy tennis.

IvanAndreevich
10-30-2009, 01:20 PM
You don't know much about Nadal's training routine. As far as I know, he hates weightlifting and is rarely in the gym pumping iron.

Tdot
10-30-2009, 01:26 PM
You don't know much about Nadal's training routine. As far as I know, he hates weightlifting and is rarely in the gym pumping iron.

He has to do weight lifting or some kind of compound body weight exercises to have such a developed physique. Steroids are not magical pills, you don't take it the night before and expect to look like Hercules the next day.

NamRanger
10-30-2009, 01:27 PM
You don't know anything about drugs so please stop commenting about the issue. There are many types of steroids used for cutting, bulking, etc. That people like you are totally ignorant about.

Serve_Ace
10-30-2009, 01:27 PM
He has to do weight lifting or some kind of compound body weight exercises to have such a developed physique. Steroids are not magical pills, you don't take it the night before and expect to look like Hercules the next day.

Nadal says that he never uses the gym at all.

hifi heretic
10-30-2009, 01:33 PM
I would agree that there is nothing about his appearance that suggest he's a juicer. People keep pointing to his "massive" arms. Please. .Yes, he's a got a bulbous left bicep (I feel silly even mentioning it) and that's about it. When his arm is at rest at his side it actually looks quite slender.

Otherwise he just looks like a fit athlete with a mesomorph body type. ..As for his on-court endurance, well that could quite believably be the result of being young, training his tail off, and good genes. ..But agree, there is NOTHING about his appearance that suggests steriods.

NamRanger
10-30-2009, 01:35 PM
I would agree that there is nothing about his appearance that suggest he's a juicer. People keep pointing to his "massive" arms. Please. .Yes, he's a got a bulbous left bicep (I feel silly even mentioning it) and that's about it. When his arm is at rest at his side it actually looks quite slender.

Otherwise he just looks like a fit athlete with a mesomorph body type. ..As for his on-court endurance, well that could quite believably be the result of being young, training his tail off, and good genes. ..But agree, there is NOTHING about his appearance that suggests steriods.



2003-2004 he gained a significant amount of muscle mass within a short amount of time. He says he does not weight train, and the only times he heavily trains is during the off season which is 2 months. I highly doubt he magically put on that muscle within 2 months.

Tdot
10-30-2009, 01:36 PM
You don't know anything about drugs so please stop commenting about the issue. There are many types of steroids used for cutting, bulking, etc. That people like you are totally ignorant about.

I might not have a degree in biology but i've read enough bodybuilding articles and peer reviewed journals to know what steroids are.

When it comes to bodybuilding, competitors take steroids to increase the amount of circulating androgens inside their bloodstream (testosterone, the most well known male hormone; Dihydrotestosterone, the most potent male hormone). These androgens have anabolic effects so as such, the more you have in your body the easier it is for you to gain muscles and retain muscles.... I can go on with this if you want me to but that's not the point. My point is that that you don't need to juice to get a body like Nadals'. Period !

NamRanger
10-30-2009, 01:37 PM
I might not have a degree in biology but i've read enough bodybuilding articles and peer reviewed journals to know what steroids are.

When it comes to bodybuilding, competitors take steroids to increase the amount of circulating androgens inside their bloodstream (testosterone, the most well known male hormone; Dihydrotestosterone, the most potent male hormone). These androgens have anabolic effects so as such, the more you have in your body the easier it is for you to gain muscles and retain muscles.... I can go on with this if you want me to but that's not the point. My point is that that you don't need to juice to get a body like Nadals'. Period !




You do not always have to use steroids to bulk numskull. You can use them to cut fat out and strengthen muscles. Korda used steroids, was he a freak of nature?

Tdot
10-30-2009, 01:46 PM
You do not always have to use steroids to bulk numskull. You can use them to cut fat out and strengthen muscles. Korda used steroids, was he a freak of nature?

LOL, so much for maturity on this board.
Yes, you can use steroids to trim out the fat since any increase testosterone or decrease in estrogen will increase your body's capability of metabolizing fat. But like i said before, you are missing the point here. I posted this topic not to prove that what hormones do what or if you are the smartest guy on earth when it comes to juicing knowledge, but to express my opinion that you don't need to juice to look like Nadal.

veroniquem
10-30-2009, 01:47 PM
I could understand calling Federer a juicer because it's been proved that noone can make 3 or 4 slam finals a year for 4+ years in a row.
So I get all the suspicions about him, but personally, I have to refrain from direct accusations as I have no tangible proof of his guilt :)
(unless his out of control body hair growth has anything to do with a substance abuse side effect :confused:)

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 01:49 PM
STOP CALLING NADAL A JUICER !!

Seriously, if you ever get into weight liftings or bodybuilding you will know that someone of nadal's size is nothing compared to those who did do steroids (google mr. olympia). I've seen guys in the gym who are about the same size of nadal or even bigger yet they do not do any steroids at all.

You don't need steroids to get nadal-ish. Just take an adequate amount of protein, work out (smart+hard) and I can gurantee that you will see results. Nadal might have used stuff like creatine and nitric oxide to enhance his performance and muscle definition but those things are nothing like steroids !

For now, stop calling him a juicer unless you have some kind of concrete evidence. I'm a fed fan myself however that does now prevent me from appreciating nadal's talent. In terms of diligence and dedication, I consider him to be one of the top dogs in tennis right now. As such, lay off the childish attacks and just enjoy tennis.
Yeah, but Nadal claims that he's NEVER lifted weights before in his life.

So how else do you explain his defined muscles?

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 01:50 PM
He has to do weight lifting or some kind of compound body weight exercises to have such a developed physique. Steroids are not magical pills, you don't take it the night before and expect to look like Hercules the next day.
He doesn't. That's why the speculation about steroids.

hifi heretic
10-30-2009, 01:52 PM
2003-2004 he gained a significant amount of muscle mass within a short amount of time. He says he does not weight train, and the only times he heavily trains is during the off season which is 2 months. I highly doubt he magically put on that muscle within 2 months.

So he was, say 17 or 18 years old?? ..It is quite likely that simply began filling out at that age. ..I'm telling you, ask any "strength" athlete who has been around steroid users and they'll tell you it's nuts to believe Nadal uses steroids simply because of his appearance.

spacediver
10-30-2009, 01:53 PM
many athletes takes performance enhancers to reduce recovery time, not necessarily to bulk up.

hifi heretic
10-30-2009, 01:54 PM
Yeah, but Nadal claims that he's NEVER lifted weights before in his life.

So how else do you explain his defined muscles?

What defined muscles?? My son - who is 13 - is EVERY bit as muscular as Nedal, apart perhaps from his left bicep. ..And his bicep is big primarily because of the way he swings his racquet using his arm muscles. ..Sheesh. So why does his right arm appear to be, at most, 15" around?

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 01:57 PM
What defined muscles?? My son - who is 13 - is EVERY bit as muscular as Nedal, apart perhaps from his left bicep. ..And his bicep is big primarily because of the way he swings his racquet using his arm muscles. ..Sheesh. So why does his right arm appear to be, at most, 15" around?

Does your 13 year-old son look like this?

http://secciondeportiva.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/nadal_toro.jpg

The Incredible Hulk has nothing on Nadal. :shock:

Tdot
10-30-2009, 01:59 PM
Yeah, but Nadal claims that he's NEVER lifted weights before in his life.

So how else do you explain his defined muscles?

I don't care what he he claims. There's no way he can get those guns without doing some kind of resistance training (either weights or bodyweight training like push ups/pull ups). If you are a fat slob who takes steroids, thinking that by doing so will make you look like Arnold the terminator then good luck..

Cesc Fabregas
10-30-2009, 02:01 PM
The funny thing is Nadal isn't even that muscular, he just has a big left bicep.

http://www.australia.to/images/stories/5News/Rafael%20Nadal.jpg

Tdot
10-30-2009, 02:02 PM
the pic above is clearly photoshopped.

Tdot
10-30-2009, 02:03 PM
I was talking about "the hulk" picture.

hifi heretic
10-30-2009, 02:03 PM
Does your 13 year-old son look like this?

http://secciondeportiva.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/nadal_toro.jpg

The Incredible Hulk has nothing on Nadal. :shock:

That is a doctored photo to be sure (I've seen that before). ..So, no. He does not look like that. And not to sound boastful (it's not like anyone knows who I am or much less cares) but I was just as muscular as Nadal ay 18 years old. ..And I had at least one friend who was even more muscular without much effort. It's just the genetic luck of the draw. Some people are naturally mesomorphs.

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 02:05 PM
That is a doctored photo to be sure (I've seen that before). ..So, no. He does not look like that. And not to sound boastful (it's not like anyone knows who I am or much less cares) but I was just as muscular as Nadal ay 18 years old. ..And I had at least one friend who was even more muscular without much effort. It's just the genetic luck of the draw. Some people are naturally mesomorphs.
Yeah, but did you lift weights?

HunterST
10-30-2009, 02:06 PM
I can't believe people are acting like the op is an irrational moron when he's saying a completely reasonable argument. Now sure, most people that take steroids don't look like Mr. Olympia, that takes insane genetics PLUS steroids. Regardless, Nada's physique is VERY attainable without steroids. In fact, someone who played tennis everyday and had a good diet could probably get that body working out 2 or 3 days a week provided they had reasonably good genetics.

bottom line, YOU have to prove that an averagely muscular guy takes steroids. It is not the op's job to prove that he doesn't.

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 02:06 PM
That is a doctored photo to be sure (I've seen that before). ..
There's no proof that it's a doctored photo. I don't think it is.

hifi heretic
10-30-2009, 02:07 PM
The funny thing is Nadal isn't even that muscular, he just has a big left bicep.

http://www.australia.to/images/stories/5News/Rafael%20Nadal.jpg

I agree! ..For goodness sake, people. Go to a high school track event and look at the top level sprinters. While some of them may weight-train, a great many don't and MOST are more muscular that Nadal. ..This isn't to say that he isn't using steroids, just that his build should not in anyway be considered evidence that he is.

namelessone
10-30-2009, 02:07 PM
Well according to some posters he has already been caught but obviously only they are enlightened so we can only hope that we will too,someday,see the light like them.

But on a more serious note,Nadal has been accused of doping since circa 2004. 5 years have passed and Nadal has been about the same size,the exception being his 5 kg loss since his last tendinitis flare-up. Ever since his "suspension" this year,his movement is still damn good though not quite the same(not the same explosion due to him losing a lot of muscle mass in the legs) and his stamina is still great,even though he isn't "using" right now according to some posters.

The biggest question about the ATP cover-up that is supposedly going on is why have the ATP been covering Nadal since before he was a star? If Nadal can fool the ATP since 2004 due to weak testing,what's to stop other players from doing the same? And why is Nadal is the only one to be questioned? You seriously think other guys don't have access to PED's and EPO? Nadal has big muscles and that brings him into the doping spotlight but what about guys who never sweat? What about Federer,who hardly sweats? But of course people will say that this his economical game is the cause for this. I would believe this if I didn't know that McEnroe,who had one of the most beautiful games in tennis,took steroids back then,although he says he did it unknowingly. Korda wasn't exactly the hulk either and he got caught.

And if the Spanish Government is refusing to make public the fuentes list,what's to stop them from crossing out a few huge names from soccer,tennis,other sports and just releasing a list with some big names,but not too big? Or better yet,what's to stop anyone from messing with the evidence,in this case the bags of blood that are to be tested(from what I know,not all have been tested)?

And if Nadal isn't "collaborating" with fuentes anymore,where does he get his drugs from nowadays? Fuentes was arrested in 2006 so I ask again,who are Nadal's suppliers for whatever he is using? Nadal kept winning big until mid 2009 so presumably he stocked up on whatever he was using and was fooling the testers just at the right time.

There is absolutely no way we can know if player x or y is innocent.It's a sad reality but that's the way it is with sports nowadays.

@hifi heretic,I totally agree with your post. If Nadal is using,he is doing so to recuperate or have better stamina,not to get bigger. There are guys out there,even in tennis,way bigger or more cut than Nadal(see monfils) but who run out of breath after 2 sets. I would understand someone talking about Nadal doping if we look at his endurance level,but to use his body type as evidence for doping is laughable IMO.

Cesc Fabregas
10-30-2009, 02:08 PM
There's no proof that it's a doctored photo. I don't think it is.

Its clearly photoshopped, thats the only photo of Nadal being that muscular, look at this picture

http://www.australia.to/images/stories/5News/Rafael%20Nadal.jpg

Theres, nothing incredible about Nadal's muscle mass in this photo.

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 02:10 PM
I don't care what he he claims. There's no way he can get those guns without doing some kind of resistance training (either weights or bodyweight training like push ups/pull ups). If you are a fat slob who takes steroids, thinking that by doing so will make you look like Arnold the terminator then good luck..
He doesn't just sit around. He's on the practice courts for more hours per day than just about any other top player. I don't think he has time to work out much. He just plays a ton of tennis. And we all know you can't build up muscles like that just from playing tennis. Heck, Federer plays almost as much tennis as Nadal and he swings a much heavier racquet with big swings and he's nowhere near as muscular as Nadal. Not even close.

hifi heretic
10-30-2009, 02:10 PM
There's no proof that it's a doctored photo. I don't think it is.

please. ..As with many of these novelty photos there is a convenient shadow in the neck area. Plus, the angle of his head in relation to his body looks askew. .It's doctored dude. ..I really can't proof it to your satisfaction, but it's pretty clear to me.

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 02:13 PM
Its clearly photoshopped, thats the only photo of Nadal being that muscular, look at this picture

http://www.australia.to/images/stories/5News/Rafael%20Nadal.jpg

Theres, nothing incredible about Nadal's muscle mass in this photo.
There's a big difference between hitting the ball and sitting around as far as how your muscles look.

Why would they doctor a photo of him hitting the ball at the Australian Open that doesn't even show his whole upper body?

How do we know that pic of him sitting there is not doctored?

veroniquem
10-30-2009, 02:16 PM
Its clearly photoshopped, thats the only photo of Nadal being that muscular, look at this picture

http://www.australia.to/images/stories/5News/Rafael%20Nadal.jpg

Theres, nothing incredible about Nadal's muscle mass in this photo.


Nadal's physique is a dream come true. Whatever he's doing to get it, I can only hope he never stops :p

Cesc Fabregas
10-30-2009, 02:17 PM
There's a big difference between hitting the ball and sitting around as far as how your muscles look.

Why would they doctor a photo of him hitting the ball at the Australian Open that doesn't even show his whole upper body?

How do we know that pic of him sitting there is not doctored?

Most photos of Nadal show him like that, heres another one for you

http://tennis.topbuzz.com/tennis-pics/d/2341-1/Rafael+Nadal+and+girlfriend.jpg

Tdot
10-30-2009, 02:18 PM
He doesn't just sit around. He's on the practice courts for more hours per day than just about any other top player. I don't think he has time to work out much. He just plays a ton of tennis. And we all know you can't build up muscles like that just from playing tennis. Heck, Federer plays almost as much tennis as Nadal and he swings a much heavier racquet with big swings and he's nowhere near as muscular as Nadal. Not even close.

If he doesn't do weights how do you explain the relativity in size of his right arm to his left arm ? clearly, if he didn't do any kind of resistance training to balance his body out, he would have ended up with a tiny right arm.

From following tennis for the past couple of years, i've learned pros do not reveal everything about themselves to public no matter how insignificant the detail is.

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 02:20 PM
please. ..As with many of these novelty photos there is a convenient shadow in the neck area. Plus, the angle of his head in relation to his body looks askew. .It's doctored dude. ..I really can't proof it to your satisfaction, but it's pretty clear to me.
There's a shadow by his neck because his head is blocking the intense bright sun of the Australian summer at the Aus Open. No, his head does not look askew at all. His head is exactly where it's supposed to be when hitting a two-handed backhand.

veroniquem
10-30-2009, 02:20 PM
To Cesc Fabrega- You know BreakPoint is in complete bad faith, Everybody knows Nadal is lean and not overmuscular.

namelessone
10-30-2009, 02:22 PM
There's a big difference between hitting the ball and sitting around as far as how your muscles look.

Why would they doctor a photo of him hitting the ball at the Australian Open that doesn't even show his whole upper body?

How do we know that pic of him sitting there is not doctored?

Oh yes,they doctored a pic of Nadal sitting around. I don't see what the hell is so great about Nadal's physique. Seriously. The guy has one big bicep,almost no pecs,has broad shoulders but not too broad(average I would say),doesn't have a clear cut six-pack and that's about it. Guys like Tsonga,Tursunov(and there are many others) have bigger build and bigger muscles and there are guys way more cut than Nadal(monfils comes to mind).
So Nadal isn't that great on the muscle size scale and he isn't that great on the low body fat scale. He's somewhere in between,an average guy with a big bicep muscle.

I am 23 years old,never went to the gym,but I do regular push-up almost everyday since I was 21 and with the exception of the bicep, I would have to say that my body looks better overall(more defined) than Nadal. And mind you,I am not an athlete like Nadal,who has access to better gear,trainers and supplements than me and can get bigger or more cut faster than I can. And somehow I don't think a few pushup-pullups will really clutter Nadal's tight schedule.

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 02:24 PM
Most photos of Nadal show him like that, heres another one for you

http://tennis.topbuzz.com/tennis-pics/d/2341-1/Rafael+Nadal+and+girlfriend.jpg
Again, he's not hitting the ball in those pics.

Here's another one of him not hitting the ball:

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/4/43/435/435352/nadal.jpg

Cesc Fabregas
10-30-2009, 02:28 PM
To Cesc Fabrega- You know BreakPoint is in complete bad faith, Everybody knows Nadal is lean and not overmuscular.

True, talking to BreakPoint is like talking to a brick wall at times.

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 02:30 PM
If he doesn't do weights how do you explain the relativity in size of his right arm to his left arm ? clearly, if he didn't do any kind of resistance training to balance his body out, he would have ended up with a tiny right arm.

From following tennis for the past couple of years, i've learned pros do not reveal everything about themselves to public no matter how insignificant the detail is.
First of all, he's a natural right-hander so he does everything with his right arm, except play tennis.

Second, he hits a two-handed backhand which uses his right arm.

Third, his left arm is indeed bigger than his right arm.

veroniquem
10-30-2009, 02:30 PM
True, talking to BreakPoint is like talking to a brick wall at times.




I think the "at times" is too generous :???:

All-rounder
10-30-2009, 02:51 PM
If nadal can get biceps that big without weights then i need to learn his workout routines

35ft6
10-30-2009, 03:07 PM
I don't think Nadal does a lot of heavy lifting, otherwise, his arms would be way more symmetrical.

namelessone
10-30-2009, 03:12 PM
Again, he's not hitting the ball in those pics.

Here's another one of him not hitting the ball:

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/4/43/435/435352/nadal.jpg

Showing a picture of Nadal flexing his bicep isn't helping your case. The best way to tell if a person is muscled up(as in size) or cut is to look at them while not doing physical activities such as sports,but at rest,you know,like Nadal is doing in the beach pic.

I think Nadal did get some work done in the gym to build up that left bicep early on(it was big in his first match with Fed in 2004)which does help him in executing that loopy FH but I don't see much evidence of steroid use/gym workout in the rest of Nadal's body. Unless there is some magic drug that only grows your left bicep.

big bang
10-30-2009, 03:17 PM
so many people here who seem to have an interest in sports and yet so many ******s who have absolutely no clue what you can achive with proper physical training:shock:

Tdot
10-30-2009, 03:48 PM
First of all, he's a natural right-hander so he does everything with his right arm, except play tennis.

Second, he hits a two-handed backhand which uses his right arm.

Third, his left arm is indeed bigger than his right arm.

sigh... look, do you seriously think picking up forks and punching phone numbers will get you big arms ?

Agreed that he uses two handed backhand and through doing so, his right hand get some work out as well but even then, how can it be that big ?

If you are thinking of countering whatever i said above with "Well that's why i said he must have used steroids" then please try to remember this simple bodybuilding fact: you need to push heavy weights with low reps to attain muscle growth, light weights high reps (like in the case of tennis) will only result in toning not increase in size. I don't care if you are the manliest of man in the world with a testosterone level like a bull's, if the only thing that you do every day is swinging a tennis racket, you will not get an arm like Nadal's.

Good nutrition, good work out routines and some genetic predisposition will results in wonders for muscle development. Heck, i can even show you pictures of natural bodybuilders that are bigger than Nadal.

Whether Nadal does steroid or not we do not know but I think it's highly unlikely that is the case due to stringent testings that occur today in tennis. Until we have some evidence that he did juice, please refrain from calling him a juicer since it's disrespectful for a good and hardworking player like Nadal. It's just wrong to say an athlete juice just because he's muscular.

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 03:57 PM
Showing a picture of Nadal flexing his bicep isn't helping your case. The best way to tell if a person is muscled up(as in size) or cut is to look at them while not doing physical activities such as sports,but at rest,you know,like Nadal is doing in the beach pic.

I think Nadal did get some work done in the gym to build up that left bicep early on(it was big in his first match with Fed in 2004)which does help him in executing that loopy FH but I don't see much evidence of steroid use/gym workout in the rest of Nadal's body. Unless there is some magic drug that only grows your left bicep.
I used to lift weights and my biceps were nowhere near the size of Nadal's. Not even close. Nadal says he's never lifted weights.

Cesc Fabregas
10-30-2009, 03:59 PM
I used to lift weights and my biceps were nowhere near the size of Nadal's. Not even close. Nadal says he's never lifted weights.

Nadal is blessed, he is naturally athletic, strong and talented guy unlike your 2 favourites Haas and Gasquet. :oops:

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 04:00 PM
sigh... look, do you seriously think picking up forks and punching phone numbers will get you big arms ?

Agreed that he uses two handed backhand and through doing so, his right hand get some work out as well but even then, how can it be that big ?

If you are thinking of countering whatever i said above with "Well that's why i said he must have used steroids" then please try to remember this simple bodybuilding fact: you need to push heavy weights with low reps to attain muscle growth, light weights high reps (like in the case of tennis) will only result in toning not increase in size. I don't care if you are the manliest of man in the world with a testosterone level like a bull's, if the only thing that you do every day is swinging a tennis racket, you will not get an arm like Nadal's.

Good nutrition, good work out routines and some genetic predisposition will results in wonders for muscle development. Heck, i can even show you pictures of natural bodybuilders that are bigger than Nadal.

Whether Nadal does steroid or not we do not know but I think it's highly unlikely that is the case due to stringent testings that occur today in tennis. Until we have some evidence that he did juice, please refrain from calling him a juicer since it's disrespectful for a good and hardworking player like Nadal. It's just wrong to say an athlete juice just because he's muscular.
You've just presented a very convincing argument that Nadal must take something since he never lifts weights. :shock:

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 04:02 PM
Nadal is blessed, he is naturally athletic, strong and talented guy unlike your 2 favourites Haas and Gasquet. :oops:
Yes, Nadal must be very talented for muscles to pop out naturally all over his body without ever lifting weights. :shock:

Cesc Fabregas
10-30-2009, 04:04 PM
Yes, Nadal must be very talented for muscles to pop out naturally all over his body without ever lifting weights. :shock:

Maybe more questions need to be asked of Federer, after all he is the one defending Agassi :shock: and also how can Federer hit the ball so hard with his chicken arms. :shock:

Ocean Drive
10-30-2009, 04:07 PM
That is a doctored photo to be sure (I've seen that before). ..So, no. He does not look like that. And not to sound boastful (it's not like anyone knows who I am or much less cares) but I was just as muscular as Nadal ay 18 years old. ..And I had at least one friend who was even more muscular without much effort. It's just the genetic luck of the draw. Some people are naturally mesomorphs.

It's not doctored in any way shape or form, you guys seem to think that he is like Ronnie Coleman or something, pathetic, do any of you guys even play sport or go to a health club?

Tdot
10-30-2009, 04:09 PM
You've just presented a very convincing argument that Nadal must take something since he never lifts weights. :shock:

No, I did not.

You are so obsessed in thinking that nadal used steroids that you misunderstood my arguement. I clearly stated that not having a proper work out routine will not help you gain in size even if you have high testosterone (which is what steroids do, they manipulate the androgen/estrogen ratio).

Hence, logically speaking, he definitely WORKED OUT to gain those arms. The steroid factor (if there's any) is only additional not the main reason why his arms got big.

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 04:13 PM
Maybe more questions need to be asked of Federer, after all he is the one defending Agassi :shock: and also how can Federer hit the ball so hard with his chicken arms. :shock:
If you actually played tennis, you would already know the answer. :-?

Cilic is even skinnier than Federer but he hits the ball even harder. :oops:

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 04:14 PM
No, I did not.

You are so obsessed in thinking that nadal used steroids that you misunderstood my arguement. I clearly stated that not having a proper work out routine will not help you gain in size even if you have high testosterone (which is what steroids do, they manipulate the androgen/estrogen ratio).

Hence, logically speaking, he definitely WORKED OUT to gain those arms. The steroid factor (if there's any) is only additional not the main reason why his arms got big.
But he didn't.

So now what's your theory?

Conquistador
10-30-2009, 04:18 PM
Nadal is the hulk hogan of the ATP Tour. This is a player raised on the island of Malluca. Nadal is a player who was brought up in an isolated environment. Naturally Nadal is going to be cut because he was brought up in a working environment. Nadal is all natural that goes to the naysayers. You see, Nadal is a champion.

HAL9001
10-30-2009, 04:22 PM
There's a shadow by his neck because his head is blocking the intense bright sun of the Australian summer at the Aus Open. No, his head does not look askew at all. His head is exactly where it's supposed to be when hitting a two-handed backhand.

There's no proof that it's a doctored photo. I don't think it is.

for arguements sake, if even if that photo is not doctored, a naturaly heavily built male (which nadal probably is, given that 3 males in his family are big guys) could maintain a physique like the one in photo without the use of weights. There are many exercise routines that can build and maintain muscle without weightlifting.

The the other photos, supposedly evidence of rapid weight gain, do not prove anything. They are not 2 months apart and the first one is when he is 17. There are many examples of people gaining large amounts of weight, even in the space of a year between the ages of 15 - 18

Tdot
10-30-2009, 04:24 PM
But he didn't.

So now what's your theory?

OMFG ... lol ...feel like we are going around in circles here.

but he did ? Seriously, there's no way he could get those arms without working out even if he did do steroids. Human's physiology are not designed to be that way. The only way for muscles to grow is to intentionally expose them to stress in an incremental manner.

Fed Kennedy
10-30-2009, 04:24 PM
He's not even that big. 6'2" 190? He's just an athlete. He looks nothing like those juiced up baseball players.

Conquistador
10-30-2009, 04:28 PM
He's not even that big. 6'2" 190? He's just an athlete. He looks nothing like those juiced up baseball players.

Thats because Nadal is a natural athlete. Hes someone you could see doing village work out there in climate and elements. A person like him being from Malluca lives an island lifestyle.

NickC
10-30-2009, 04:28 PM
Yeah, but Nadal claims that he's NEVER lifted weights before in his life.

You don't need weights to get big. I know a swimmer back in my HS days. When he and I took a fitness class, he said he had never used the gym before, he had only relied on swimming a few hundred laps a day as his workout. Within a few minutes of getting used to the bench and how to lift the bar correctly, he was repping out 175 like it was a tooth pick.

And just to play devil's advocate, there's this little set of every-day exercises that can get you damned big muscles. They're called sit-ups, crunches, pull-ups and push-ups. You can also get muscle and definition by running.

There's also this thing called eating correctly and all that....

NamRanger
10-30-2009, 04:39 PM
sigh... look, do you seriously think picking up forks and punching phone numbers will get you big arms ?

Agreed that he uses two handed backhand and through doing so, his right hand get some work out as well but even then, how can it be that big ?

If you are thinking of countering whatever i said above with "Well that's why i said he must have used steroids" then please try to remember this simple bodybuilding fact: you need to push heavy weights with low reps to attain muscle growth, light weights high reps (like in the case of tennis) will only result in toning not increase in size. I don't care if you are the manliest of man in the world with a testosterone level like a bull's, if the only thing that you do every day is swinging a tennis racket, you will not get an arm like Nadal's.

Good nutrition, good work out routines and some genetic predisposition will results in wonders for muscle development. Heck, i can even show you pictures of natural bodybuilders that are bigger than Nadal.

Whether Nadal does steroid or not we do not know but I think it's highly unlikely that is the case due to stringent testings that occur today in tennis. Until we have some evidence that he did juice, please refrain from calling him a juicer since it's disrespectful for a good and hardworking player like Nadal. It's just wrong to say an athlete juice just because he's muscular.




First of all tennis has one of the most craptacular testing programs ever created. Two, I would like you to go learn some more about illegal substances. Nadal doens't have to be on steroids to be cheating; he could easily be using HGH, EPO, etc.

big bang
10-30-2009, 04:44 PM
First of all tennis has one of the most craptacular testing programs ever created. Two, I would like you to go learn some more about illegal substances. Nadal doens't have to be on steroids to be cheating; he could easily be using HGH, EPO, etc.

so could everyone else.. why you keep bringing up Nadal???

Serendipitous
10-30-2009, 04:46 PM
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/5416/nadalfunny.jpg

Baikalic
10-30-2009, 04:47 PM
so could everyone else.. why you keep bringing up Nadal???

He's one of the most prominent player's of the last few years, and so is the biggest target...

Tdot
10-30-2009, 04:49 PM
Nadals' appearance by itself already a good enough proof that he does take up some kind of resistance training. As for the juicing, we don't know but if you keep on insisting that he juices then prove it !!!

@Namranger: Players have been caught before so the tennis federation isn't doing such a bad job when it comes to creeping on players who cheat.

big bang
10-30-2009, 04:50 PM
I used to lift weights and my biceps were nowhere near the size of Nadal's. Not even close. Nadal says he's never lifted weights.

LOL then you must have some serious genetic flaws:)
just the fact that you think hes big makes me laugh, hes just an athlete build a little above average and nothing else..

Serendipitous
10-30-2009, 04:50 PM
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6005/roger1funny.jpg

ubermeyer
10-30-2009, 04:52 PM
You're completely right. He is muscular for a tennis player, but not really all that muscular compared to many other sportsmen.

nfor304
10-30-2009, 06:16 PM
PEDs come in more forms than just steroids.

Cyclists get caught all the time for doping and they dont look like Ronnie Coleman either.

Athletes dont take drugs to get massive like bodybuilders do, they take them to enhance they're performance in things like strength, stamina, muscular endurance, recovery etc.

Hence the term 'Performance Enhancing Drugs'.

NamRanger
10-30-2009, 06:50 PM
so could everyone else.. why you keep bringing up Nadal???



Because he has a big target on him due to the indirect connection to Doctor Fuentes.

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 06:59 PM
You don't need weights to get big. I know a swimmer back in my HS days. When he and I took a fitness class, he said he had never used the gym before, he had only relied on swimming a few hundred laps a day as his workout. Within a few minutes of getting used to the bench and how to lift the bar correctly, he was repping out 175 like it was a tooth pick.

And just to play devil's advocate, there's this little set of every-day exercises that can get you damned big muscles. They're called sit-ups, crunches, pull-ups and push-ups. You can also get muscle and definition by running.

There's also this thing called eating correctly and all that....
If this was possible, nobody would waste their money joining a gym and nobody would lift weights. You don't get big biceps from doing push-ups.

Nadal also doesn't swim a few hundreds laps a day. He wouldn't be able to run around a tennis court afterwards if he did. :shock:

JennyS
10-30-2009, 07:01 PM
I would agree that there is nothing about his appearance that suggest he's a juicer. People keep pointing to his "massive" arms. Please. .Yes, he's a got a bulbous left bicep (I feel silly even mentioning it) and that's about it. When his arm is at rest at his side it actually looks quite slender.

Otherwise he just looks like a fit athlete with a mesomorph body type. ..As for his on-court endurance, well that could quite believably be the result of being young, training his tail off, and good genes. ..But agree, there is NOTHING about his appearance that suggests steriods.

He's resting in this picture and look at him.
http://1loup.net/share/images/Nike_Pro/03-Rafael%20Nadal.PV__.jpg

BreakPoint
10-30-2009, 07:02 PM
LOL then you must have some serious genetic flaws:)
just the fact that you think hes big makes me laugh, hes just an athlete build a little above average and nothing else..
How many tennis players look like this?

http://secciondeportiva.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/nadal_toro.jpg

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/4/43/435/435352/nadal.jpg

JennyS
10-30-2009, 07:09 PM
Yeah, Nadal isn't muscular....

http://orvillelloyddouglas.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/nadal.jpg

http://estaticos.archivo.marca.com/tenis/masters_series_madrid_06/favoritos/nadal.jpg

http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/aaaaaaaaarafaa6.jpg

JennyS
10-30-2009, 07:17 PM
How about Alex Rodriguez, who admitted to past steroid usage? He's hardly ripped:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RFDCkGzS3T8/SUpY3wMXB-I/AAAAAAAAEeI/s2Pcs_-pciM/s400/alex_rodriguez_shirtless_3.jpg

drakulie
10-30-2009, 07:46 PM
Known steroid user, and banned by the ATP:

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/files_tennis/KORDA_Petr_199207_NF_R.jpg

kishnabe
10-30-2009, 08:09 PM
He has to do weight lifting or some kind of compound body weight exercises to have such a developed physique. Steroids are not magical pills, you don't take it the night before and expect to look like Hercules the next day.

He does plyometrics and bands which are good for muscle stablity. It is more for defintion and not bulk. Also his mucles could be more genetical since his whole family is into sports.

veroniquem
10-30-2009, 08:16 PM
so could everyone else.. why you keep bringing up Nadal???



Because he's scared someone else is gonna bring up Federer, as well he should given the unnatural inhuman records Fed has posted in slams those last few years. Seems like a lot of EPO was needed!

edberg505
10-30-2009, 09:05 PM
Because he's scared someone else is gonna bring up Federer, as well he should given the unnatural inhuman records Fed has posted in slams those last few years. Seems like a lot of EPO was needed!

Hmm, interesting. So EPO makes people hit a forehand like Federer? Because that's the only thing I could see it helping Federer with. It's not like he's a counter puncher who stays out there all day. When you are blowing people off the court you don't really need something that helps out your stamina.

hifi heretic
10-30-2009, 09:08 PM
He's resting in this picture and look at him.
http://1loup.net/share/images/Nike_Pro/03-Rafael%20Nadal.PV__.jpg

Steroids? ..Because of this?? You're ridiculous. His right arm is probably less than 15" around. Those are NOT big muscles. What they are are well defined. ...Which is as much a function of body fat as muscle size. ..If Rafa is 6'1" and is less than 200 lbs, he is a lightweight. There is absolutely NOTHING extraordinary about his build when compared to other athletes with mesomorph body types. ..And while he may say he doesn't work out with weights, he isn't denying doing some sort of resistance training - be it with bands, kettles, or maybe even a few machines. ..Rafa has a body type that is not unlike a lot of NBA guys. ..He's naturally muscular AND burns a ton of calories each day.

Rather than impugning the guys integrity by suggesting he's using steroids, maybe we should be celebrating the fact that tennis seems to slowly changing from a sport of "last resort" that attracts only the guys who couldn't make it in football or basketball to one that may be attracting some of a the best athletes in a given population.. Rafa doesn't look like a steroid user as much as he does a guy who would have probably chosen a different sport.

ninman
10-30-2009, 09:23 PM
Hmm, interesting. So EPO makes people hit a forehand like Federer? Because that's the only thing I could see it helping Federer with. It's not like he's a counter puncher who stays out there all day. When you are blowing people off the court you don't really need something that helps out your stamina.

It's interesting to note that in the final of Miami in 2005 after it was all over, they asked Federer about the match, he said and these were his words that by the fifth set he thought Nadal was "struggling big time". A few weeks later Nadal in the final of Rome wins a totally epic five setter, apparently no longer struggling at all. How did he manage such a fast transformation without help?

drakulie
10-30-2009, 09:24 PM
^^^and to add, ,,on a surface one has to work harder on to end points. hmmmmmm.

ninman
10-30-2009, 09:36 PM
^^^and to add, ,,on a surface one has to work harder on to end points. hmmmmmm.

Also bearing in mind that Nadal is a professional athlete, and so he would not experience such rapid changes anyway.

AJK1
10-30-2009, 10:06 PM
Yeah, he was a juicer.

Lsmkenpo
10-30-2009, 10:06 PM
The athletes that take steroids are not taking a high dose like a body builder would use.

Steroids increase the ratio of testosterone/epitestoserone, a normal persons ratio is 1-1 to 2-1 , increasing the ratio to 4-1 is all that is needed to gain a significant performance advantage, faster muscle recovery and increase stamina.

The WADA that conducts the testing for the ATP allows a 4-1 ratio before any suspicion is raised. To increase performance, doubling the T/E ratio is sufficient for most sports. That is the reason these athletes don't look huge, body builders increase their ratio around 20-1 to gain muscle mass, they take a much higher dose.

As long as the athlete monitors his T/E ratio and keeps it at or below 4-1, it is quite easy to dope, increase performance,and not get caught.

zambo
10-31-2009, 05:37 AM
OK, folks, all of your theory's are incorrect. The reason being why Nadal's arms are as toned as they are is due to his passion for Pesca, Which is fishing. Now, i have a friend who does fishing regularly in the Atlantic south west of France. Now, he is fair amount younger than Nadal and his biceps are BIG. I was soo curious that i asked him why they were soo toned and he simply told me "fishing, and fly fishing". Before he started fishing, his arms were nothing like what they are now. For those of you who say, "he does weight lifting" all i can say to that is LOL. If you honestly think you can only achieve arms like his by that method, then you are truly ignorant and incompetant. And for sure people will ask me "how do you know he does fishing?". Ok, firstly, on his Facebook page it says that his favorite activities are football, Pesca (fishing) and a few other sports. Consequently, Nadal lives on a small island in the mediterranean where fishing is extremely popular.

I am positive with my idea regarding Nadal's biceps. Just wanted to share with all you.

NamRanger
10-31-2009, 08:09 AM
Hmm, interesting. So EPO makes people hit a forehand like Federer? Because that's the only thing I could see it helping Federer with. It's not like he's a counter puncher who stays out there all day. When you are blowing people off the court you don't really need something that helps out your stamina.



And actually I could cite alot of matches where Federer's stamina clearly failed him.

OTMPut
10-31-2009, 08:13 AM
OK, folks, all of your theory's are incorrect. The reason being why Nadal's arms are as toned as they are is due to his passion for Pesca, Which is fishing. Now, i have a friend who does fishing regularly in the Atlantic south west of France. Now, he is fair amount younger than Nadal and his biceps are BIG. I was soo curious that i asked him why they were soo toned and he simply told me "fishing, and fly fishing". Before he started fishing, his arms were nothing like what they are now. For those of you who say, "he does weight lifting" all i can say to that is LOL. If you honestly think you can only achieve arms like his by that method, then you are truly ignorant and incompetant. And for sure people will ask me "how do you know he does fishing?". Ok, firstly, on his Facebook page it says that his favorite activities are football, Pesca (fishing) and a few other sports. Consequently, Nadal lives on a small island in the mediterranean where fishing is extremely popular.

I am positive with my idea regarding Nadal's biceps. Just wanted to share with all you.

Sounds very fishy.

zambo
10-31-2009, 08:32 AM
Proof that Nadal is fond of pesca and does it regularly.

Clears His Mind by Fishing

Mallorca's a quiet and peaceful small island, life there is very different from Madrid. Nadal whom was born and bred in Mallorca, has inherited the locals' philosophy of having a peaceful and normal life. "Everyone knows him but nobody treats him like a celebrity. Unlike in Madrid, where Rafael can't even go out on the streets, once they see him, everybody will start cheering and shouting his name." Toni said, "But it's different in Mallorca, he's just a normal boy. He knows everyone on the island, too familiar. When he's not training, he will go fishing or golfing alone."

Nadal is actually a shy and introvert person. He likes to row himself to the river near his home and fish. "Over there, there's a breed of very tiny fishes. Rafael always catches that particular breed and brings home a pail full of it." His nephew doesn't have the habit of sharing his troubles, Toni said, sometimes he would go fishing to clear his mind.

http://www.protennisfan.com/2005/11/rafael_nadal_ar.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEb9kwwOQrY

namelessone
10-31-2009, 10:52 AM
It's interesting to note that in the final of Miami in 2005 after it was all over, they asked Federer about the match, he said and these were his words that by the fifth set he thought Nadal was "struggling big time". A few weeks later Nadal in the final of Rome wins a totally epic five setter, apparently no longer struggling at all. How did he manage such a fast transformation without help?

Well,if you and the Nadal-is-doping brigade believe what Fed says religiously then why don't you take a look at what Fed said about Nadal's knee problems when they had a short talk around Wimbledon time and by the look on Nadal's face,Fed said he knew his problem was serious. But probably Fed was just being nice and diplomatic to cover up for Nadal's doping suspension,right?

If Nadal was "struggling" in Miami in a 5 setter he should naturally struggle in all 5 setters,right? Great logic on your part. Don't forget that Nadal can actually slide to balls on clay unlike HC and can cover more ground that way.
Another example of this HC Nadal versus clay Nadal. In USO 08',presumably while doping,Nadal looked beat after Murray ran him all over the place and mind you,Nadal didn't exactly have a tough time until the semi and the semi took place over 2 days time. What happened? Did the EPO run out? Why didn't Nadal just inject himself after that first break in the final so that he would be fresh the next day? Nadal looke physically spent in the semifinal and it was due to his style of play and the fact that the knees were starting to give in. A few weeks after USO 08', Nadal called it quits in Paris for the rest of the year because of tendinitis. But he was probably faking this too.

Fatigue levels vary,it's part of tennis. Federer's words about Nadal are his assesments on the match at hand,not the universal truth. Oh,by the way how come Fed never sweats? Probably due to his beautiful,efficent game,right? No way a skinny guy like that would use steroids,right? Nevermind the fact that guys like korda did use or that McEnroe,with one of the most aesthetically pleasing games in tennis,confessed to using steroids(although he says he didn't know he took them at time).

Some of you act like Nadal has never been tired on court. In chennai,after an exhausting semifinal with moya,he was a ghost on court the next day with youzhny. Even the russian said so. At AO he had an exhausting semi with verdasco and he barely managed to pull through in the final with Fed. If your theories are correct why didn't Nadal use EPO in chennai final(a smaller event) but chose to do in the much bigger,GS event,where he had more chances to be caught? Why use one day or period and not the next? And if Nadal has been flushing out things out of his system and fooling the system for about 5-6 years that whoever is advising him is a freaking genius.
Nadal shook Laver's hand(and it was the same for the other ozzie legends) after the final while standing down because he was cramping,he said so in the presser afterwards. And he also said he felt dizzy in the locker room after all that effort. Was Nadal faking that and was he actually being a dick to Laver&Co by not getting up to shake their hands(even though he is usually very polite to everyone)?

How come Nadal,without doping according to your theory,has almost the same results on his worst surface in 09' in the after wimbledon period,just like in 08' when he was presumably really doped up because he had his best year.

Man if Nadal could manage his schedule like he does his doping habits he would get much better results.:):)

mzzmuaa
10-31-2009, 11:25 AM
the only thing suggestive of steroids is his balding so early (DHT)

Ucantplay2much
10-31-2009, 11:45 AM
He's resting in this picture and look at him.
http://1loup.net/share/images/Nike_Pro/03-Rafael%20Nadal.PV__.jpg

Yes, I believe everything I see in ads and on magazine covers :)

http://bumpshack.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/andy_roddick_mf.jpg

"The radical Photoshop arms race came to light last week on the Web site TMZ, which also carried the news that Roddick admitted he was quite surprised when he spied himself on the cover.

Aside from the serious bulk, he noted that a birthmark on his right arm had disappeared.

I spent the last few weeks in Austin, Texas, really focused on my training and getting back into shape - but Im pretty sure Im not as fit as the Mens Fitness cover suggests, Roddick wrote on his blog, according to TMZ.

Little did I know I have 22-inch guns and a disappearing birth mark on my right arm. I saw the cover for the first time when I landed after Rome [tournament]. It was pretty funny.

I walked by the newsstand in the airport and did a total double take. I can barely figure out how to work the red-eye tool on my digital camera. Whoever did this has mad skills.""

veroniquem
10-31-2009, 12:20 PM
Photos can be altered, touched up, manipulated any way you want (I should know, my dad is a photographer!). Those photos posted earlier do not represent the reality of Nadal's body at all. Watch a video and you'll see he looks nothing like a bodybuilder. His muscles are toned and he's athletic obviously but nothing like a Schwarzenegger type.

zambo
10-31-2009, 12:29 PM
Photos can be altered, touched up, manipulated any way you want (I should know, my dad is a photographer!). Those photos posted earlier do not represent the reality of Nadal's body at all. Watch a video and you'll see he looks nothing like a bodybuilder. His muscles are toned and he's athletic obviously but nothing like a Schwarzenegger type.

His muscles are toned due to pesca. I'm sure of it! Yeah, they are not like Arnold though. :S

TennisandMusic
10-31-2009, 12:29 PM
I find it hilarious and sad that there are certain people think that Nadal is so "buff" it can only be drugs. One must wonder what they have done (or rather, not done) with their own physique's.

musicalmedic81
10-31-2009, 12:31 PM
2003-2004 he gained a significant amount of muscle mass within a short amount of time. He says he does not weight train, and the only times he heavily trains is during the off season which is 2 months. I highly doubt he magically put on that muscle within 2 months.

Its called Puberty

musicalmedic81
10-31-2009, 12:36 PM
Have you seen Nadal with no shirt on? He is so unproportioned its quite unsightly. He's got a large left bicep, a tiny little right arm, no chest what so ever his back is lop sided, left trap and lat are considerably larger than the right. That is NOT the body of somebody who weight trains properly and definitely not somebody on roids. People just see his left arm and assumed he is ripped and huge all over. I think he looks mishapen and awkward.

BreakPoint
10-31-2009, 01:50 PM
Ok, firstly, on his Facebook page it says that his favorite activities are football, Pesca (fishing) and a few other sports. Consequently, Nadal lives on a small island in the mediterranean where fishing is extremely popular.

I am positive with my idea regarding Nadal's biceps. Just wanted to share with all you.
Are you sure you're positive?

How do you know that Nadal didn't build up those huge biceps from playing soccer (football)? Everyone knows that kicking a football builds up your arms, right? :lol: LOL

zambo
10-31-2009, 02:06 PM
Are you sure you're positive?

How do you know that Nadal didn't build up those huge biceps from playing soccer (football)? Everyone knows that kicking a football builds up your arms, right? :lol: LOL

You've just demonstrated that you don't know anything about fishing. You are just acting dumb but it's not fooling anyone. Tell me where i said football tones your biceps? i mean, PLEASE tell me where i said that. i just stated the activities that Nadal likes, because it includes fishing. But i never said Football does anything to increase muscle around the biceps. Get a clue, kid.

JennyS
10-31-2009, 02:07 PM
And actually I could cite alot of matches where Federer's stamina clearly failed him.

This year's US Open final is a good example. His movement was way below par in that match.

NamRanger
10-31-2009, 02:16 PM
This year's US Open final is a good example. His movement was way below par in that match.



Or Safin versus Federer 2005 AO SF, where Federer was tired from all the running he did. Or Wimbledon 2008 Final where his legs finally gave out in the end, etc.

LiveForever
10-31-2009, 02:29 PM
Or Safin versus Federer 2005 AO SF, where Federer was tired from all the running he did. Or Wimbledon 2008 Final where his legs finally gave out in the end, etc.
Those arent strong examples at all. Wimbledon 2008 was a dead even match in which Nadal's consistency was incredible. Federer eventually missed some of those huge forehands and serves he was going for and that was game set match for Nadal. 2005 against Safin a better example but fighting to the dead end at 9-7 shows that Federer wasnt huffing and puffing to stay in the match. Safin's lethal strokes and Fed's own errors eventually sealed the deal.

Intuit
10-31-2009, 06:57 PM
The athletes that take steroids are not taking a high dose like a body builder would use.

Steroids increase the ratio of testosterone/epitestoserone, a normal persons ratio is 1-1 to 2-1 , increasing the ratio to 4-1 is all that is needed to gain a significant performance advantage, faster muscle recovery and increase stamina.

The WADA that conducts the testing for the ATP allows a 4-1 ratio before any suspicion is raised. To increase performance, doubling the T/E ratio is sufficient for most sports. That is the reason these athletes don't look huge, body builders increase their ratio around 20-1 to gain muscle mass, they take a much higher dose.

As long as the athlete monitors his T/E ratio and keeps it at or below 4-1, it is quite easy to dope, increase performance,and not get caught.

Very good post..objectively...WADA has just sanctioned every single player to boost the T/E ratio to 4-1.....indirectly leading to sanctioning doping..for all! So the only thing the testing is getting are the ones that "don't quite get the timing" right. :wink:

NamRanger
10-31-2009, 07:00 PM
Those arent strong examples at all. Wimbledon 2008 was a dead even match in which Nadal's consistency was incredible. Federer eventually missed some of those huge forehands and serves he was going for and that was game set match for Nadal. 2005 against Safin a better example but fighting to the dead end at 9-7 shows that Federer wasnt huffing and puffing to stay in the match. Safin's lethal strokes and Fed's own errors eventually sealed the deal.



Federer however was notably much slower and much less effective in the 5th set of both matches. Oh, his stamina also gave out against Nalbandian at the TMC in the 5th set also.

veroniquem
10-31-2009, 07:08 PM
Federer however was notably much slower and much less effective in the 5th set of both matches. Oh, his stamina also gave out against Nalbandian at the TMC in the 5th set also.

It's funny how it didn't give out against Roddick at W, Andreev at USO, Haas or Delpo at RG. Are you suggesting he took a stamina enhancer for those matches? :)

TennisFan008
11-07-2009, 03:45 PM
It's irrelevant how big Nadal is compared to a gym rat, american football player or baseball player. What is relevant is that he's probably one of the ten most muscular players in the history of his sport, despite not lifting weights and having a game that relies heavily on movement and endurance.

But to his defence, he was always muscular as far as I remember. He didn't suddenly bulk up considerably like a certain meth user.

TennisFan008
11-07-2009, 03:50 PM
http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/4/43/435/435352/nadal.jpg


http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/aaaaaaaaarafaa6.jpg

Impressive. I've never seen a tennis player with an arm like that, though Monfils isn't far off.

DownTheLine
11-07-2009, 03:58 PM
Those arent strong examples at all. Wimbledon 2008 was a dead even match in which Nadal's consistency was incredible. Federer eventually missed some of those huge forehands and serves he was going for and that was game set match for Nadal. 2005 against Safin a better example but fighting to the dead end at 9-7 shows that Federer wasnt huffing and puffing to stay in the match. Safin's lethal strokes and Fed's own errors eventually sealed the deal.

So you don't think the fact that he ran out of gas caused some of those errors?

coyfish
11-07-2009, 04:12 PM
Hmm I think monfils is pretty far off. He has very low BF which makes it seem like his muscles are "bigger" than they really are. I think hes bigger than your "average" tennis player but Nadal has about 10 lbs on him and hes like 4 inches shorter I think. Nadal is 6 -0 and monfils is around 6-4.

Verdasco and and fernando gonzalez are on par or bigger than monfils but they don't get mentioned often.

hifi heretic
11-07-2009, 04:52 PM
he's probably one of the ten most muscular players in the history of his sport, despite not lifting weights and having a game that relies heavily on movement and endurance.


"despite not lifting weights"? Perhaps he does not lift free weights, but he most certainly trains. And the Kettlebells, rubber bands, and plyometric exercises that are widely used these days can - when applied to guys with naturally muscular buids like Nadal - result in pretty impressive physiques. ..Far bigger than Rafas. I see many guys in my gym who are adamantly opposed to weights who are bigger than Nadal. ..Apart from his left bicep he is simply built like a modern era basketball player. ..Perhaps we should be happy that tennis is now attracting athletes whose natural physical gifts would previously send them to other sports.

CMM
11-08-2009, 12:01 AM
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6695/rafawim.jpghttp://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2972/rafay.jpghttp://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2605/nadalwl.jpghttp://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6742/rafanadal.jpg

CMM
11-08-2009, 12:02 AM
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6627/gaelmonfils.jpghttp://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6666/monfilsq.jpghttp://img188.imageshack.us/img188/8470/monfilsfropenqtrs7.jpghttp://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3229/monfilsqataropendoha2.jpg

GasquetGOAT
11-08-2009, 02:02 AM
This is the arm of someone who doesn't do weights or juice...
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2008/06/23/RogerFederer1.jpg
and this, http://bahamaderek.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/djokovic_miami7.jpg



This, is something else....
http://estaticos.archivo.marca.com/tenis/masters_series_madrid_06/favoritos/nadal.jpg

CMM
11-08-2009, 02:41 AM
and this, http://bahamaderek.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/djokovic_miami7.jpgThat's the wrong arm. I believe that his new fitness trainer will take care of his fitness problems.
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2649/novakdjokovicbeijing09e.jpg

I think this is also the hand of a man who's not on juice. Wimbledon 2008:
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9602/rafaelq.jpg
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4116/rafab.jpg

GasquetGOAT
11-08-2009, 02:51 AM
I think this is also the hand of a man who's not on juice.


I think you meant this...http://estaticos.archivo.marca.com/tenis/masters_series_madrid_06/favoritos/nadal.jpg and you don't know the whole truth...

CMM
11-08-2009, 02:59 AM
and you don't know the whole truth...

Neither do you. When you'll see other players wearing a sleeveless shirt and doing a fist pump, please let me now. Then you will be able to compare.

GasquetGOAT
11-08-2009, 03:11 AM
Neither do you. When you'll see other players wearing a sleeveless shirt and doing a fist pump, please let me now. Then you will be able to compare.

You mean like this?
http://www.australianopen.com/images/pics/large/b_Del_Potro_21_1.jpg .http://estaticos.archivo.marca.com/tenis/masters_series_madrid_06/favoritos/nadal.jpg

CMM
11-08-2009, 03:18 AM
and this, http://bahamaderek.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/djokovic_miami7.jpgNotice the difference:
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/8338/rafae.jpg
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8106/rafaell.jpg

That's not a fist pump. But if Del Potro doesn't have big muscles, doesn't mean that those who have are on juice.

CCNM
11-08-2009, 02:18 PM
STOP CALLING NADAL A JUICER !!

Seriously, if you ever get into weight liftings or bodybuilding you will know that someone of nadal's size is nothing compared to those who did do steroids (google mr. olympia). I've seen guys in the gym who are about the same size of nadal or even bigger yet they do not do any steroids at all.

You don't need steroids to get nadal-ish. Just take an adequate amount of protein, work out (smart+hard) and I can gurantee that you will see results. Nadal might have used stuff like creatine and nitric oxide to enhance his performance and muscle definition but those things are nothing like steroids !

For now, stop calling him a juicer unless you have some kind of concrete evidence. I'm a fed fan myself however that does now prevent me from appreciating nadal's talent. In terms of diligence and dedication, I consider him to be one of the top dogs in tennis right now. As such, lay off the childish attacks and just enjoy tennis.

So you CAN get arms like his and Andy Murray's by just working out/weightlifting? Thank you for clearing this up for me/us ;)

ninman
11-08-2009, 02:51 PM
For the love of God I wish people would stop using the whole "Nadal has big arms" argument. If Nadal is juicing it would be most likely to be for endurance NOT muscles. I mean oh my god, people are so freaking obsessed with his damn arms.

SirGounder
11-08-2009, 03:26 PM
Well he's got nice arms and his sleeveless shirts showed them off.

He has good genes and is always training. You don't necessarily need weights to get bigger muscles. At his age, he might have just grown up like a lot of guys do. It helps a lot if you don't have much body fat because the definition can make muscles look bigger.

I don't know too much about the science behind steroids, but I was under the impression that you had to lift weights in addition to taking steroids to get bigger.

coloskier
11-09-2009, 09:59 AM
For the love of God I wish people would stop using the whole "Nadal has big arms" argument. If Nadal is juicing it would be most likely to be for endurance NOT muscles. I mean oh my god, people are so freaking obsessed with his damn arms.

Got to agree with you there. Tennis players who juice don't do it for size, they do it for endurance. That is why Nadal's body is falling apart. His game is based on being able to outlast his opponent, outrun him. In order to keep it up like he does, his body is going to eventually fall apart, like it does every year after Wimbledon. Whether it is due to juicing or not, it is obviously happening, and it is happening earlier every year.

Silverwolf
11-09-2009, 12:10 PM
One of Nadal's workout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6BYW8SElK4

CMM
11-09-2009, 12:15 PM
One of Nadal's workout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6BYW8SElK4

I don't think this is what he usually does. This was filmed during his injury time out.

hifi heretic
11-09-2009, 12:33 PM
As a live-long fitness fanatic I see nothing in his build or his endurance to suggest that he's juicing. While his build is impressive for a non-weight lifter, it is far from unheard of. Anyone who works out has seen/ known people who are simply naturally muscular, even if they eschew free-weights in favor of other types of exercise. One poster commented about the big vein on Nadals arm. ..Well, that is simply a genetic thing. ..I've had those my whole life, even before I started to work out (not meant as a boast. ..My wife thinks there pretty gross).

As for his endurance, if you think Nadals speed and endurance are so fantastic that they could only be achieved through steroids, then you must think the same of darn near every professional footballer (soccer) and hockey player.

hifi heretic
11-09-2009, 12:43 PM
sorry for the double post. moderator delete please

mikro112
11-09-2009, 01:07 PM
the pic above is clearly photoshopped.

It is not. It's from a few years ago. If you insist, I will find more pictures. It was taken at the 2008 AO.