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View Full Version : Malisse and Wickmayer are banned for 1 year !


Slaz
11-05-2009, 11:35 AM
No, it's not the 1st of april ... Xavier Malisse and Yanina Wickmayer have been banned from any competition for a whole year !!!

The article I read said that they missed 3 "whereabouts" during the year, so the flemish court (north of belgium) has decided to ban them from any competition for one year !

I'm still in shock and can't believe it ...

What do you guys think ?

Mick
11-05-2009, 11:39 AM
wow. i can't believe it either

Blinkism
11-05-2009, 11:41 AM
Wow, Malisse was killing it in the Challenger tour and Wickmayer with her USO result...

This is too bad

Mick
11-05-2009, 11:43 AM
wickmayer says she will appeal the ruling.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
11-05-2009, 11:44 AM
"whereabouts" means?

Slaz
11-05-2009, 11:44 AM
Yanina wrote on her web site that she is going to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport !

I really hope she wins the case !

el sergento
11-05-2009, 11:45 AM
No, it's not the 1st of april ... Xavier Malisse and Yanina Wickmayer have been banned from any competition for a whole year !!!

The article I read said that they missed 3 "whereabouts" during the year, so the flemish court (north of belgium) has decided to ban them from any competition for one year !

I'm still in shock and can't believe it ...

What do you guys think ?

Not if they say Slim spiked their drinks they wont!:)

AAAA
11-05-2009, 11:49 AM
Considering Malisse is highly strung and never showed great endurance or toughness when I've watched him play I'd say he had tantrums about being called for a test and ignored them.

Mano
11-05-2009, 11:54 AM
Well to be precise, Malisse missed one doping control and two times didn't complete his where-abouts. For Wickmayer its was indeed three times the where-abouts.

It absolutely sounds stupid. However it is even more stupid not to be precise with the where-abouts. You know three times is a strike and counts as a positive control.

Curious what the court of appeal will decide.

sureshs
11-05-2009, 12:01 PM
In Wickmayer's case, she was not at home to receive a registered letter. How can she be at home if she lives alone and has to travel to play? Sounds like stupid bureaucrats who can't hold a racquet trying to hang on to their paid positions and exert power.

Mano
11-05-2009, 12:02 PM
"whereabouts" means?

Whereabouts means that the sporter have to fill in where he/she is during the day. This you have to do for all of the year, with a precision of half or whole hour. You have to fill it in in advance, like a month or so.

The idea behind it is that the doping controling agency can located you within an half an hour for a out of competition control. The will phone you and meet you at the place or near the place where you should be according to your where abouts. If you are not precise with it, or decide to do something spontaneously, than you could be accounted for a missed control. And three missed counts as a positive doping test

Couldn't explain it better sorry. Hope I make any sense.

sureshs
11-05-2009, 12:06 PM
And yet people claim that it is so easy to evade doping. They are not in touch with the facts.

Mano
11-05-2009, 12:07 PM
In addition, this doesn't only count for tennis. It is a WADA (world anti doping association) rule and all sports that fall under WADA regulations have to submit to these rules. And that are basically all the olympic sports.

It even may be that you have to fill it in three months ahead, that is what i remember anyway. Of course it is possible to change your plans, in that case you have to phone to ITF and change you're whereabouts that way.

Mano
11-05-2009, 12:16 PM
And yet people claim that it is so easy to evade doping. They are not in touch with the facts.

Well I wouldn't say it is easy to evade doping controls. But if you want to it is always possible. It is a risk you take, the change you will get an out of competition control is still very low. I don't know how it is in tennis but I can't imagine wickmayer or malisse receiving more than four a year. That leaves a lot of days open. And if you know you doped you can always evade a test by pretending not to be at home, you still got basically two "get out of jail for free- cards", unless you spill them on not filling on you're where abouts.

With this i am not advertising the use of doping or suggesting that these two have doped. Just pointing out that the control system is far from waterproof

rk_sports
11-05-2009, 12:40 PM
here you go .. probably a faster reaction due to Agassi's confession ..

settolove
11-05-2009, 12:45 PM
Wickmayer's excuse was frankly pathetic. Something about she couldn't update because she used her home email and she was away from home. Also she couldn't get her password to work or something. Obviously mobile phones, faxes etc don't exist in her world.

Last I heard the prosecutor was requesting a warning. Obviously tennis has decided it needs to be seen to be enforcing the rules. I guess we can thank Agassi for that. Wonder how long it will last.

I remember a UK hurdler got banned in 2006 for missing three out of competition tests. She won a gold medal but The British Olympic Committee is very strict. If you get banned for anything you are banned for life from competing for the UK. She had to appeal to get selected.

ETA: Original report: http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=4586374
New report: http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=4626557

sdont
11-05-2009, 12:48 PM
I read that the court showed clemency after all, so the ban won't be effective, but the players better watch out from now on.

Edit: Oops seems like I misread. This is really a shocker.

IvanAndreevich
11-05-2009, 01:29 PM
Wouldn't be surprised if Malisse was juicing. Wickmayer - wtf?

Topaz
11-05-2009, 02:44 PM
here you go .. probably a faster reaction due to Agassi's confession ..

I agree...I think they wanted to show that they were being tough in light of the Agassi story, and ended up going (IMO) way overboard.

I hope Wickmayer's appeal works!

Spinz
11-05-2009, 03:03 PM
I am sure that this has been under consideration for awhile. I think the first story about it was before the Agassi confession but I'm not totally sure. I dont think there is a connection. Anyway, I am not surprised. Tennis has gone way too far with allowing the doping (though it seems like people on this site dont seem to think it is a problem because all they think are steroids and are clueless about how doping really works!) and so will now have more of a problem than if the powers had dealt with it in the first place. I also think that Belgium became the hot place (too much heat in France, Italy and Spain) so maybe the authorities are finally catching on to it.

Topaz
11-05-2009, 03:06 PM
^^^I'd prefer to see a system that didn't punish unless someone actually tested positive.

That being said, I also think some players are punished, and others...not so much.

Ledigs
11-05-2009, 03:19 PM
Did they not write in where they'd be or did they miss a test?

Topaz
11-05-2009, 03:22 PM
Did they not write in where they'd be or did they miss a test?

I believe it was just a 'whereabouts' question...meaning, they did not write in where they would be...I don't think any tests were missed (and certainly none were failed), which makes the punishment severe for the crime (especially considering Gasquet's measly 3 months he did).

There doesn't seem to be any consistency in doling out punishments, and I think that is very unfair to the players.

Ledigs
11-05-2009, 03:33 PM
That's odd. So wickmayer didn't notice she hadn't told them where shed be that month? That'd be a pretty high priority no? just read that malisse missed a test

Serendipitous
11-05-2009, 04:02 PM
Are "Malisse" and "Wickmayer" users on Talk Tennis ????? ?????

Did they deserve to get banned ????? ????

pound cat
11-05-2009, 04:06 PM
In Wickmayer's case, she was not at home to receive a registered letter. How can she be at home if she lives alone and has to travel to play? Sounds like stupid bureaucrats who can't hold a racquet trying to hang on to their paid positions and exert power.

If she didn't get the letter it would have been retured to the sender as it had to be signed which is the point of a Registered letter and they would have attempted to find her. They must have an e-mail address for her, a cell phone #, etc, known what tournament she was in, etc. Feeble excuse from her. And/or her father.

matchmaker
11-05-2009, 04:27 PM
Are "Malisse" and "Wickmayer" users on Talk Tennis ????? ?????

Did they deserve to get banned ????? ????

An instant classic!

matchmaker
11-05-2009, 04:29 PM
This is IMO completely out of line of the bureaucratic government instances.

It seems that now Agassi has vented his excesses in his book, they want to come down tough on others.

JeMar
11-05-2009, 05:30 PM
I can't help but feel like Agassi had something to do with this.

veroniquem
11-05-2009, 06:22 PM
Well I wouldn't say it is easy to evade doping controls. But if you want to it is always possible. It is a risk you take, the change you will get an out of competition control is still very low. I don't know how it is in tennis but I can't imagine wickmayer or malisse receiving more than four a year. That leaves a lot of days open. And if you know you doped you can always evade a test by pretending not to be at home, you still got basically two "get out of jail for free- cards", unless you spill them on not filling on you're where abouts.

With this i am not advertising the use of doping or suggesting that these two have doped. Just pointing out that the control system is far from waterproof



Which is exactly the window of opportunity Soderling exploited this year at RG :-?

veroniquem
11-05-2009, 06:26 PM
I can't help but feel like Agassi had something to do with this.


Sure, they're gonna want to make an example although they're not accused of being careless with minor players, they're accused of protecting the big names of the game...

topher.juan
11-05-2009, 06:30 PM
Unbelievable! I don't even know where I'll be tomorrow, let alone what I'm doing a month from now. How can they expect the players to state where they will be ~4weeks in advance within an hour? That is simply ridiculous.

Mano
11-05-2009, 10:11 PM
Sure, they're gonna want to make an example although they're not accused of being careless with minor players, they're accused of protecting the big names of the game...

It looks indeed like they are setting an example, but it is not the national tennis association who's doing it in this case. Instead it is a governmental organization who has handled the case, i believe. The sick part from the players point of fiew is: the prosecutor asked for an official warning instead of a ban.

Mano
11-05-2009, 10:14 PM
fiew=view of course (before all the english teachers around here join in).

marpiw
11-06-2009, 07:22 AM
Well I wouldn't say it is easy to evade doping controls. But if you want to it is always possible. It is a risk you take, the change you will get an out of competition control is still very low. I don't know how it is in tennis but I can't imagine wickmayer or malisse receiving more than four a year. That leaves a lot of days open. And if you know you doped you can always evade a test by pretending not to be at home, you still got basically two "get out of jail for free- cards", unless you spill them on not filling on you're where abouts.

With this i am not advertising the use of doping or suggesting that these two have doped. Just pointing out that the control system is far from waterproofWhat is this?...Is this a signal that the Gestapo or the KGB are still at work?...Its really terrible what they are doing to sportsmen...Really a mistreatment...

ronalditop
11-06-2009, 07:28 AM
Wickmayer is hot.

That is all.

drakulie
11-06-2009, 07:36 AM
Let's see if Nadal comes to their defense.

marpiw
11-06-2009, 07:44 AM
Wickmayer is hot.

That is all.Yes,I agree...she is the hottest tennis player I ever saw and she is a fantastic combination of "angel-devil"...

mikro112
11-06-2009, 08:20 AM
I don't see why they are complaining now? The missed giving the WADA their location three times and according to the rules you will be banned for that. It's that easy. Maybe they should have started thinking before they missed mentioning their location/taking the doping test.

It's just fair and I really hope that the national WADAs and ATP/WTA start enforcing the doping rules more strictly in the future.

Topaz
11-06-2009, 08:48 AM
I don't see why they are complaining now? The missed giving the WADA their location three times and according to the rules you will be banned for that. It's that easy. Maybe they should have started thinking before they missed mentioning their location/taking the doping test.

It's just fair and I really hope that the national WADAs and ATP/WTA start enforcing the doping rules more strictly in the future.

Let's also hope that the rules are enforced more *consistently* in regards to all the players, regardless of ranking.

*eyebrow*

And it was the Belgian tribunal that came down so heavy handed, even after recommendations to the contrary by WADA.

Bloodshed
11-06-2009, 08:53 AM
I don't see why they are complaining now? The missed giving the WADA their location three times and according to the rules you will be banned for that. It's that easy. Maybe they should have started thinking before they missed mentioning their location/taking the doping test.

It's just fair and I really hope that the national WADAs and ATP/WTA start enforcing the doping rules more strictly in the future.

I totally agree with you.

I mean as much as I like Malisse, if the rules clearly say you will be banned after missing 3 tests, well bite the bullet and deal with it. Same goes for Wickmayer although she'll try to get out of it (I doubt it will work).

OJ ROD
11-06-2009, 09:45 AM
That whole system is such bull*****. Not even ex-con's on parole have that kinda leash around their necks.

bluetrain4
11-06-2009, 11:42 AM
This is huge for Wickmayer is she loses her appeal. All of the momentum she's gained this year could easily evaporate for such a young player.

Malisse, on the other hand, is on the tail end of his career. Though, if he wants to keep on playing, that's probably no consolation to him.

ttbrowne
11-06-2009, 12:55 PM
Yanina can be my maid for a year. I have a great looking costume for her to wear.

mtommer
11-06-2009, 01:18 PM
And yet people claim that it is so easy to evade doping. They are not in touch with the facts.

That relates to identifying process vs. masking process.

matchmaker
11-07-2009, 09:58 PM
The more I think about it the more absurd I think this punishment is. Yes, they both have not been able to transmit there whereabouts three times, but it appears that as the system is new, they did not know everything about it, such as the fact that they are now told you can send a text message to warn about changing locations.

It would seem fair to warn someone who has defaulted the whereabouts twice that they are on the verge of being suspended, yet no one warned them after the second time. They kept them unaware of their status and then came down incredibly hard on them.

The prosecutor asked for a symbolic punishment and yet the judge gives them a year suspension.

Neither has tested positive and I am 100% sure they are both clean, it is not that they have a superhuman physical build or incredible stamina when they are out there on court.

According to international rules within the ITF, only top 50 players have to complete their whereabouts continuously. But they happen to belong to a regional entity, the Flemish Doping Tribunal, which is stricter than the international laws. Malisse has only just reintegrated the top 100 and Wickmayer was outside the top 50 for most of the year.

People who dope are not punished and these players who have been negligent, yes, but surely they were unaware of the system and its consequences, are punished in an absurd way by a regional entity.

If they had lived a few kilometers farther, they would have belonged to another regional federation with other rules.

I am sure many players will now avoid any Belgian sports federation and reside in other countries.

jamesblakefan#1
11-07-2009, 10:37 PM
Sorry to bring this up...but how do we know that Henin did not get a similar punishment and have it hidden by her 'retirement'? Isn't this a possibility?

Cantankersore
11-07-2009, 10:59 PM
Sorry to bring this up...but how do we know that Henin did not get a similar punishment and have it hidden by her 'retirement'? Isn't this a possibility?

Well Drakulie, we don't. I guess that means that it is safest to assume that Henin was doping, QED. ;)

jamesblakefan#1
11-07-2009, 11:27 PM
Well Drakulie, we don't. I guess that means that it is safest to assume that Henin was doping, QED. ;)

I apologize...I did go all drakulie there for a second...do I think that Henin was suspended? No. Is it impossible....of course, nothing is impossible. But since I have no proof, I cannot say definitively what happened w/ Henin, if anything at all happened. That's the difference between me and drakuLIE - I admit I have no evidence...I don't have a laptop girl...:lol:

Richie Rich
11-08-2009, 03:19 AM
at the end of the day Malisse and Wickmeyer should know the rules. Or at least have someone in their camp that knows the rules. I can understand missing one test or not responding to one "whereabouts" report. But 3 times? That's a little hard to believe

drakulie
11-08-2009, 05:14 AM
I apologize...I did go all drakulie there for a second...do I think that Henin was suspended? No. Is it impossible....of course, nothing is impossible. But since I have no proof, I cannot say definitively what happened w/ Henin, if anything at all happened. That's the difference between me and drakuLIE - I admit I have no evidence...I don't have a laptop girl...:lol:

once again, trolling me.

lacoster
11-08-2009, 10:56 PM
Sorry to bring this up...but how do we know that Henin did not get a similar punishment and have it hidden by her 'retirement'? Isn't this a possibility?

Henin will most likely write a book about her real reason for retirement a couple of years out of her second retirement and call it some cliche title like "Let," "Fault," "Out," "Slam," or "Open."

Rataplan
11-09-2009, 05:36 AM
Sorry to bring this up...but how do we know that Henin did not get a similar punishment and have it hidden by her 'retirement'?
Henin is from the French speaking part of the country, Wallonia. They're not as strict with those whereabouts there. It's highly unlikely that she was given out such a ban that was just hidden although I know that many here like to cherish this fantasy for some reason.

Malisse and Wickmayer are from the northern part of the country, the Dutch speaking part, Flanders. Their policy is much more strict.

THUNDERVOLLEY
11-09-2009, 06:41 AM
Henin will most likely write a book about her real reason for retirement a couple of years out of her second retirement and call it some cliche title like "Let," "Fault," "Out," "Slam," or "Open."

"Out" would be applicable title for that never-bought-it-for-1-second ex-husband of hers...

Topaz
11-09-2009, 07:30 AM
Henin is from the French speaking part of the country, Wallonia. They're not as strict with those whereabouts there. It's highly unlikely that she was given out such a ban that was just hidden although I know that many here like to cherish this fantasy for some reason.

Malisse and Wickmayer are from the northern part of the country, the Dutch speaking part, Flanders. Their policy is much more strict.

Isn't the 'whereabouts' policy a WADA policy? That would mean it doesn't matter where the players are from. The WADA did not recommend such a harsh punishment, but the Belgian tribunal evidently disagreed.

Rataplan
11-09-2009, 08:24 AM
Isn't the 'whereabouts' policy a WADA policy? That would mean it doesn't matter where the players are from. The WADA did not recommend such a harsh punishment, but the Belgian tribunal evidently disagreed.
It's WADA policy but it's enforced on a national or - as in this case - on a regional level so it does matter where a player is coming from (even though I find it ludicrous).

In Belgium, enforcing the policy is a regional matter (Wallonia/Flanders) so that makes the rules different depending on which part of the country you're born in. Henin is from Wallonia, Wickmayer is from Flanders. The rules are much more strict in Flanders.

For example, the international anti-doping policy for tennis players state that the whereabouts only need to be filled in by top 50 players. Flanders decided to be more severe than the international policy so even Flemish players well outside the top 50 need to fill in their whereabouts but a player from Wallonia well outside the top 50 doesn't have to fill in the whereabouts.
Malisse was well outside the top 50 and so was Wickmayer when she failed to fill in the whereabouts properly.

Topaz
11-09-2009, 12:20 PM
It's WADA policy but it's enforced on a national or - as in this case - on a regional level so it does matter where a player is coming from (even though I find it ludicrous).

In Belgium, enforcing the policy is a regional matter (Wallonia/Flanders) so that makes the rules different depending on which part of the country you're born in. Henin is from Wallonia, Wickmayer is from Flanders. The rules are much more strict in Flanders.

For example, the international anti-doping policy for tennis players state that the whereabouts only need to be filled in by top 50 players. Flanders decided to be more severe than the international policy so even Flemish players well outside the top 50 need to fill in their whereabouts but a player from Wallonia well outside the top 50 doesn't have to fill in the whereabouts.
Malisse was well outside the top 50 and so was Wickmayer when she failed to fill in the whereabouts properly.

Ugh. So it is even more inconsistent based on where players are from? By no means am I against testing, but I think it needs to be standardized as far as expectations and punishments.

Casey10s
11-10-2009, 08:10 AM
Then again, there is a French article that says that tennis is not even testing for CERA, a third generation EPO, except for a few people at the French Open. They ban people for administration reasons but can't even catch the abusers who are using CERA and other advanced PED's.

I imagine there are many BALCO type companies around the world working and making PED's that can't be detected using today's methods. I believe noone had failed a test from the BALCO crew but they only got caught in the court of law. The top athletes can get the newest PED's and feel pretty confident that they won't get caught by a drug test as long as they stay ahead of the curve. The only way to get caught is to admit under a court oath that they or someone else was using.

CocaCola
11-10-2009, 08:39 AM
Now I see why she reached semis at USO.

Topaz
11-10-2009, 09:48 AM
Now I see why she reached semis at USO.

She didn't miss a test, nor did she test positive for anything.

CCNM
11-10-2009, 04:19 PM
Hmmm. Yanina W and Xavier M accused of doing drugs, Martina H and Richard G doing cocaine, Agassi doing meth. They just need to ask Amelie M to bring some wine and that would be quite a party!!!! :)