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View Full Version : You think Serena's foot fault tirade was bad...


Mr.Brightside
11-08-2009, 11:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnQp9YoLl68&feature=related

check this guy out.

Chadwixx
11-08-2009, 12:06 PM
Bad behaviour doesnt justify bad behaviour. Not sure why serena fans just cant admit she was very wrong in what she did.

edmondsm
11-08-2009, 12:18 PM
Serena was definitely wrong. But there's no way they should be calling a foot fault at that moment, unless she steps like a foot over the baseline. I'm sure Kim wouldn't have wanted the call. Let the players decide the match. I'm sick of officials deciding important sporting events. It happens in a lot of other sports too. Seems like every year in the NBA playoffs some referee calls traveling or some BS foul in the last seconds of a game.

Fee
11-08-2009, 12:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnQp9YoLl68&feature=related

check this guy out.

I think this is honestly the ninth thread about this same video.

Mr.Brightside
11-08-2009, 12:47 PM
Bad behaviour doesnt justify bad behaviour. Not sure why serena fans just cant admit she was very wrong in what she did.

i'm not justifying it, i think serena was very wrong in what she did.

I think this is honestly the ninth thread about this same video.

oops. didn't see the other 8.

Falloutjr
11-08-2009, 06:45 PM
He didn't run about threatening to kill people, though, and to place tennis balls in areas of the body which tennis balls were not meant to enter. Breaking racquets is pretty routine; I almost broke a racquet of mine, then I forgot it was $200 and thought better of it ;) but it happens. I should buy cheap racquets, and when I'm mad I can smash it to bits. My logic is foolproof.

drakulie
11-08-2009, 06:53 PM
Serena was definitely wrong. But there's no way they should be calling a foot fault at that moment,


rules are rules. There is no "exception to the rule" that states, "This rule will be in effect except for match point".

MAX PLY
11-08-2009, 07:04 PM
Serena was definitely wrong. But there's no way they should be calling a foot fault at that moment, unless she steps like a foot over the baseline. I'm sure Kim wouldn't have wanted the call. Let the players decide the match. I'm sick of officials deciding important sporting events. It happens in a lot of other sports too. Seems like every year in the NBA playoffs some referee calls traveling or some BS foul in the last seconds of a game.

Why not call a foot fault? If it is a foot fault it should be called irrespective when in the match it occurs. Your logic would seemingly apply to a ball that was close to the service or base line at the same point in the match. Surely you don't mean that?

kendall22
11-08-2009, 07:19 PM
That's absurd, edmonds. Then you're inviting players to cheat at important moments.

Rob_C
11-08-2009, 09:01 PM
That's absurd, edmonds. Then you're inviting players to cheat at important moments.

The players aren't making the calls, the officials are. And you shouldn't call a FF on 2nd serve, on match point, or any pt late in a deciding set unless it is absolutely blatant, like 2-3 inches over the line.

baek57
11-08-2009, 09:15 PM
The players aren't making the calls, the officials are. And you shouldn't call a FF on 2nd serve, on match point, or any pt late in a deciding set unless it is absolutely blatant, like 2-3 inches over the line.

If the player doesn't want a FF called on him then he should not FF. It's not that hard to understand. And it's certainly not hard to avoid FF.

MAX PLY
11-09-2009, 06:48 AM
The players aren't making the calls, the officials are. And you shouldn't call a FF on 2nd serve, on match point, or any pt late in a deciding set unless it is absolutely blatant, like 2-3 inches over the line.

Please distinguish this situation from a ball that is hit less than 2 inches out on the same point.

edmondsm
11-09-2009, 08:00 AM
rules are rules. There is no "exception to the rule" that states, "This rule will be in effect except for match point".

These rules don't exist in a vacuum. You can pretend that they do, but they don't, and there are dozens of examples throughout sports. Is an ump as quick to overrule a line call on the far side on match point in the 5th set? Does a ref eject a player for foul language in the World Cup final? These are rules, but a good official knows that there are situations where you have more wiggle room. A foot fault when you are two points away from the match in the USO semi is one of those situations IMO.

Why not call a foot fault? If it is a foot fault it should be called irrespective when in the match it occurs. Your logic would seemingly apply to a ball that was close to the service or base line at the same point in the match. Surely you don't mean that?

It's totally different then a line call. Every point of the match hinges on line calls, every shot. Plus, we have an electronic system for reviewing the line calls. To be honest, I haven't seen video of Serena's foot fault, and if it was blatant then it should be called of course. But if it was marginal at all then the official should have let it go. Nobody, not players or fans, want to see a huge point decided by a ump who is splitting hairs.

drakulie
11-09-2009, 08:44 AM
The players aren't making the calls, the officials are. And you shouldn't call a FF on 2nd serve, on match point, or any pt late in a deciding set unless it is absolutely blatant, like 2-3 inches over the line.


Ok, so according to you, the rule should be,:

Foot faults on match point or any point late in a set will only be called when they are 2-3 inches over. Could you explain what you define as "late in the set"? My definition would be after 3 games have been played. Someone else may define it as 5 games, and still someone else may decide it is only curcial if it is in a 3rd set tie break. So, whats yours???


A foot fault when you are two points away from the match in the USO semi is one of those situations IMO.



and explain why **YOU** get to decide what the rules are in these situations?? Why wouldn't someone else get to decide that all rules should be followed by the book? Or someone else say rules will only be followed on the first point of every game? Or someone else say as long as the server is within 3 inches of the service line, it is OK to foot fault??

Way too many opinions, which is why there are rules, and they need to be followed. Period. If there is a need for a rule change, the governing body coudl always meet and decide to change a particular rule. However, until that happens, all rules should be followed always.

MAX PLY
11-09-2009, 11:48 AM
These rules don't exist in a vacuum. You can pretend that they do, but they don't, and there are dozens of examples throughout sports. Is an ump as quick to overrule a line call on the far side on match point in the 5th set? Does a ref eject a player for foul language in the World Cup final? These are rules, but a good official knows that there are situations where you have more wiggle room. A foot fault when you are two points away from the match in the USO semi is one of those situations IMO.



It's totally different then a line call. Every point of the match hinges on line calls, every shot. Plus, we have an electronic system for reviewing the line calls. To be honest, I haven't seen video of Serena's foot fault, and if it was blatant then it should be called of course. But if it was marginal at all then the official should have let it go. Nobody, not players or fans, want to see a huge point decided by a ump who is splitting hairs.

I actually don't see it as any different than a line call but I would support video evidence review of foot faults (and yes, while no video evidence of SW's ff seems to be available, foot faults are not as hard to call as lines--I would also add that video evidence of foot faults may be more difficult in outdoor arenas than indoor arenas (i.e., in an indoor court, a camera can be placed directly overhead--it would seem to be more difficult at outdoor venues)). The difficulty I have with your distinction is that a foot fault of less than two inches could (in fact, I would maintain "would") affect whether the ball is in or out by some margin. Thus, a < 2 inch foot fault could cause a ball to be "in" whereas the same ball would have been "out" if struck legally--a distinct advantage for the rule violator--a scenario which should never happen. The rules should be enforced the same for the entire match otherwise, by your own admission, someone could get an "advantage" on major points by violating the rules in play for the rest of the match. The standard should be same for every point--i.e., there is no point during which the compliance with the rules should be "marginal".

tennis angel
11-10-2009, 07:25 AM
Serena was out of line.

edmondsm
11-10-2009, 08:59 AM
and explain why **YOU** get to decide what the rules are in these situations?? Why wouldn't someone else get to decide that all rules should be followed by the book? Or someone else say rules will only be followed on the first point of every game? Or someone else say as long as the server is within 3 inches of the service line, it is OK to foot fault??

Way too many opinions, which is why there are rules, and they need to be followed. Period. If there is a need for a rule change, the governing body coudl always meet and decide to change a particular rule. However, until that happens, all rules should be followed always.

I'm not deciding anything. This is how the professional sporting world works and you can pretend all you want that all rules are enforced exactly the same way 100% of the time, but you are wrong.

Pro athletes will tell you that they want the officials staying out of the way in the big moments. This is because officials are human and you don't want them making some ticky-tack call in a crucial moment, deciding the outcome, and then end up being wrong anyway. If everything in sports was officiated by computers then it would be different.

Again, maybe Serena was 6 inches over the line, I haven't seen video. But if it was marginal then this line judge could very well have been mistaken, and now we've got a GS semi being decided by a foot fault.

Chadwixx
11-10-2009, 09:09 AM
Do you even play tennis edmon? Why are you putting the blame on the official who made the call? Its very easy to not foot fault. You either touch the line or you dont, its very simple. Its not an opinion based call, its more like touching the baseline or 3pt line on a game winning shot in basketball, really cut and dry.

This has never been an issue until it happened to serena, someone who has never taken accountablity for her actions. She is at fault here for not looking where her fat feet were when she lined up to serve.

edmondsm
11-10-2009, 09:17 AM
I actually don't see it as any different than a line call but I would support video evidence review of foot faults (and yes, while no video evidence of SW's ff seems to be available, foot faults are not as hard to call as lines--I would also add that video evidence of foot faults may be more difficult in outdoor arenas than indoor arenas (i.e., in an indoor court, a camera can be placed directly overhead--it would seem to be more difficult at outdoor venues)). The difficulty I have with your distinction is that a foot fault of less than two inches could (in fact, I would maintain "would") affect whether the ball is in or out by some margin. Thus, a < 2 inch foot fault could cause a ball to be "in" whereas the same ball would have been "out" if struck legally--a distinct advantage for the rule violator--a scenario which should never happen. The rules should be enforced the same for the entire match otherwise, by your own admission, someone could get an "advantage" on major points by violating the rules in play for the rest of the match. The standard should be same for every point--i.e., there is no point during which the compliance with the rules should be "marginal".

You make good points. The Aussie Open has had video of foot faults before. It's a ground level camera. I remember Lleyton Hewitt getting called for foot faults and they always had video that showed his feet going over the line. Problem being you can't see when he strikes the ball.

edmondsm
11-10-2009, 09:25 AM
Do you even play tennis edmon? Why are you putting the blame on the official who made the call? Its very easy to not foot fault. You either touch the line or you dont, its very simple. Its not an opinion based call, its more like touching the baseline or 3pt line on a game winning shot in basketball, really cut and dry.

This has never been an issue until it happened to serena, someone who has never taken accountablity for her actions. She is at fault here for not looking where her fat feet were when she lined up to serve.

What does me playing tennis have to do with anything? Yes, I play tennis. What is more telling is that I am conducting myself in a polite manner in this discussion, and you and Drak seem to feel the need to start off your posts in a demeaning fashion.

On topic, I would love to see some video exonerating the official. Please show me some Chad. You know like the video they use to confirm a 3pt shot in basketball. I'm not saying the official was wrong, I'm saying that if the call is marginal then let it go, because you are human and we don't want you screwing up this important moment in these athlete's lives with some bogus, ticky-tack call. If there is video evidence to differ to then it completely changes the situation.

Chadwixx
11-10-2009, 09:35 AM
What does me playing tennis have to do with anything? Yes, I play tennis. What is more telling is that I am conducting myself in a polite manner in this discussion, and you and Drak seem to feel the need to start off your posts in a demeaning fashion.

On topic, I would love to see some video exonerating the official. Please show me some Chad. You know like the video they use to confirm a 3pt shot in basketball. I'm not saying the official was wrong, I'm saying that if the call is marginal then let it go, because you are human and we don't want you screwing up this important moment in these athlete's lives with some bogus, ticky-tack call. If there is video evidence to differ to then it completely changes the situation.

Just a simple question (not an insult), you should know your service motion by now and how easy it is to not foot fault. Someone who doesnt play tennis may not understand its simplicity.

The same line judge is calling 90+mph forehands on the same baseline. A footfault is really, really easy to see and call.

Serena also admitted she foot faulted.

jms007
11-10-2009, 09:39 AM
You make good points. The Aussie Open has had video of foot faults before. It's a ground level camera. I remember Lleyton Hewitt getting called for foot faults and they always had video that showed his feet going over the line. Problem being you can't see when he strikes the ball.

A foot fault is called at any point during the service motion. Doesn't matter when he strikes it.

Chadwixx
11-10-2009, 09:48 AM
Once the ball leaves your strings its ok to touch/cross the line.

OrangePower
11-10-2009, 10:21 AM
There are three different things being discussed with respect to the Serena incident...

1. Whether the official was right in calling a footfault under the circumstances. I don't have an opinion on this.

2. Whether a player can express disagreement and general anger over an official's call. This happens all the time; I even understand how a player might lose their temper and break a racket for example. I don't make too much of it in general.

3. Whether a player has the option under any circumstance of making personal threats and physically intimidating an official, another player, or any other person. The only answer here is a categorical no. There is just no way to justify or defend this.

MAX PLY
11-10-2009, 12:16 PM
Once the ball leaves your strings its ok to touch/cross the line.

You can cross (i.e., in the air while striking the ball) you just cannot touch the court with your foot. The rule:

8. Foot Fault
The Server shall throughout the delivery of the Service:
a. Not change his position by walking or running. The Server shall not by slight movement of the feet which do not materially affect the location originally taken up by him, be deemed "to change his position by walking or running".
b. Not touch, with either foot, any area other than that behind the base-line within the imaginary extensions of the centre-mark and side-lines.

Chadwixx
11-10-2009, 12:19 PM
Ya, misworded that. You could do a long jump over the baseline, hit the serve before you land and it would be legal.

Ive tried it before and its not recommended on dry clay :)

jms007
11-10-2009, 12:30 PM
Once the ball leaves your strings its ok to touch/cross the line.

Yeah but usually it's pretty obvious when a player foot faults, because you're feet are stationary moment before impact.

jms007
11-10-2009, 12:33 PM
All this bull about pro-athletes wanted officials to stay out...I'd bet you anything that only applies when they're the ones committing the rule break.
Ask any NHL player before the match, if it would be OK if the opposing team got away with slashing in OT...see how many of them would agree to that!

alex92130
11-10-2009, 02:57 PM
Such a girl. Shove... Love.. Ball... Call :confused: I will shove the ball down-:evil: