PDA

View Full Version : Bad matchups for Top 5 men


GustafsonFanatic
11-08-2009, 12:58 PM
Which game styles cause most trouble for each of the Top 5 ?

I'll try some:

Fed - probably pushers, like Murray and Simon. Nadal is a bad matchup as well, but he's the only player of his type (there is no "Nadal-type" of player other than Nadal himself)

Nadal - tall guys, with heavy and consistent shots (2HBH is a must, of course)

Murray - most would say big hitters, but I'm not so sure

Djokovic - pushers and players with lots of variety (Haas, Gulbis, Kohlschreiber)

Del Po - no idea really

Blake0
11-08-2009, 01:06 PM
nadal-I'd think that tall guys that pound the ball flat into the corners...(FO and US)
Not really sure for the rest of them..but

Federer- heavy topspin hitters that crush his backhand
Murray- big server (just threw it in there)
Del potro- Guys who move him around and hit slices.
djoko - big servers (threw it in there again)

GustafsonFanatic
11-09-2009, 11:39 AM
nadal-I'd think that tall guys that pound the ball flat into the corners...(FO and US)
Not really sure for the rest of them..but

Federer- heavy topspin hitters that crush his backhand
Murray- big server (just threw it in there)
Del potro- Guys who move him around and hit slices.
djoko - big servers (threw it in there again)

Big servers for Murray and Djkovic? Is it because Roddick beat them this year? I don't think so. Murray actually owns Roddick in H2H, and as far as Djokovic goes, I don't think he loses to Roddick because of the serve.

Does anyone else care about my topic?

Anaconda
11-09-2009, 12:06 PM
The only guy i know who gives JMDP problems every match is djokovic and murray. So All court/% players are hard for JMDP.

Murray and djokovic don't fail against big servers, Murray fails against players who will take advantage of short balls and djokovic can beat anyone on his day but has just been playing poorly.

Hard to say about Fed & Rafa because they rarely lose.

IvanAndreevich
11-09-2009, 12:09 PM
Bad match up for DP is Federer EASILY.

Anaconda
11-09-2009, 12:16 PM
Bad match up for DP is Federer EASILY.


or maybe djokovic where he has played him 4 times and lost 4 times. At least he's beaten Federer.

OleNole
11-09-2009, 01:10 PM
I'll take a stab.
Fed struggles when you take away his rythm, that's why he's had problems with Murray, but also Karlovic, because even though they play completely different games, neither (at their best) allows Federer to tee off like he can against say Blake or Davydenko.
Djokovic- losses to Federer, Hass, Kohlschreiber tell me his weakness is agressive baseliners with 1hbh's. Also lost to Tsonga, who plays a very similar game to those three albeit with a 2hbh. What stands out more though is the kind of players he's good against:big-hitting all court players like Soderling, and Verdasco.
Murray- Guys who speak Spanish. Losses this year to Nadal, Verdasco, Monaco, del Potro, and Gonzalez. Seriously though, as Anaconda said, (save for Monaco) these are all guys who will put away short balls in a hurry.
Del Potro-Good returners of serve. Losses are to Federer, Nadal, Murray, Djokovic, Hewitt and Stepanek. They always say the key to success is return of serve and secod serve, and I think its interesting the top 5 are probably also the 5 best returners on tour, and of the five, delpo, who's ranked 5th, probably has the weakest 2nd serve (though possibly the best 1st serve).

I have a hard time saying Nadal has any weakness, as long as he's healthy he only loses to other top 10 players. I've always thought Monfils is a bad matchup for him. That's really the only guy I can think of, because just like no one plays like Nadal, no one plays like Monfils either.

Dream_On
11-09-2009, 01:27 PM
I'll take a stab.
Fed struggles when you take away his rythm, that's why he's had problems with Murray, but also Karlovic, because even though they play completely different games, neither (at their best) allows Federer to tee off like he can against say Blake or Davydenko.
Djokovic- losses to Federer, Hass, Kohlschreiber tell me his weakness is agressive baseliners with 1hbh's. Also lost to Tsonga, who plays a very similar game to those three albeit with a 2hbh. What stands out more though is the kind of players he's good against:big-hitting all court players like Soderling, and Verdasco.
Murray- Guys who speak Spanish. Losses this year to Nadal, Verdasco, Monaco, del Potro, and Gonzalez. Seriously though, as Anaconda said, (save for Monaco) these are all guys who will put away short balls in a hurry.
Del Potro-Good returners of serve. Losses are to Federer, Nadal, Murray, Djokovic, Hewitt and Stepanek. They always say the key to success is return of serve and secod serve, and I think its interesting the top 5 are probably also the 5 best returners on tour, and of the five, delpo, who's ranked 5th, probably has the weakest 2nd serve (though possibly the best 1st serve).

I have a hard time saying Nadal has any weakness, as long as he's healthy he only loses to other top 10 players. I've always thought Monfils is a bad matchup for him. That's really the only guy I can think of, because just like no one plays like Nadal, no one plays like Monfils either.

Bad matchup for nadal, is murray and simon who can push back his moonballs or guys such as davydenko(And maybe murray) who can blast him off the court with angles.

wilkinru
11-09-2009, 01:57 PM
Fed - Loses to consistent players. His losses are almost always based on having to hit yet another great shot. This is most true if one can work the backhand.

Nadal - Loses to players who have the ability to make great shots. This is why the top 10 highly talented players beat him. Also very tall players can be a problem, Nadal is not the greatest returner and his high top spin sits right into the power zone.

Djok - A well rounded player, tends to lose to players with a specific plan in mind. Many ways to beat him, but one must commit to it.

Murry - Has trouble against players who can make shots, move, and return well. Often gives short balls. Requires top 15 talent to beat him.

Delpo - Suspect able to the drop shot and slice where he must get low and gets moved around.

Michael Bluth
11-09-2009, 02:06 PM
Here's my two cents:

Federer: Counterpunchers who use topspin shots to break down his backhand like Simon, Murray, Nadal and Nalbandian.

Nadal: Players who can consistently hit big shots to his forehand.

Djokovic: Players with variety(Haas, Fed, Kohlschrieber, sometimes Wawrinka) and players who can put him under pressure by attacking the net successfully(Haas, Fed, Tsonga, Stepanek sometimes like in Basel until he choked).

Murray: Big hitters who aren't thrown off by his variety/junk and who can both attack his weak second serve and keep him pinned far behind the baseline in rallies.

Del Potro: Players with variety(Fed, Murray on hard) and players who can handle his power while moving better than him(Fed, Djokovic).

koslav85
11-09-2009, 03:21 PM
federer - murray, nadal, nalbandian,
nadal- del potro, soderling, davydenko, djokovic/cilic when on
djokovic - federer, davydenko, murray lately, in form nadal
murray- nadal, davydenko, nalbandian, cilic
del potro - federer, djokovic, murray, possibly davydenko

IvanisevicServe
11-09-2009, 04:08 PM
Federer: Defensive players. Guys who stay in good court position and make him go for the lines. Nadal is the best retriever perhaps of all-time (Borg?) and that is why he has beaten Federer, not the top spin to backhand thing that is so commonly cited (it was a big factor in the 2006 French Open final and ever since, people cite that...but what should be noted is Federer made more forehand errors than backhand ones in that 06 Final, and it really hasn't been a recurring theme since...Federer always shanks more balls than he should off BOTH wings against Nadal, but even that wasn't the deciding factor).

Nadal: Power players. The flat, hard-hitting, baseline ball bashers. This is so blatantly obvious it's unreal. He always had so much trouble with in form James Blake and Tomas Berdych...and now Del Potro and Soderling blast him off the court. Is it really any mystery why?

Murray: Anyone who plays him late in a Grand Slam. He really has no true Achilles heel other than himself. First it was his fitness, and now it's his mentality. If he didn't emote after every single freak'n point, he'd probably have won a Grand Slam by now. He's still prone to dumping service games out of nowhere...often after breaking the opponent. However, that's all mental. The guy can defuse any big server and he's too skilled for defensive players to beat him.

Djokovic: I don't think he has a glaring weakness, I just think his best stuff isn't good enough to consistently beat other guys' best stuff. Federer at the top of his game is just flat-out better in every area of tennis. Nadal does his thing to Djokovic like he does to everyone else; Djokovic actually does a better job of giving Nadal problems than most people. If Djokovic has a weakness besides his mental ability, I'd say it's with big serves. He just couldn't break Safin, Roddick, or Haas.

Del Potro: Fit players who run him around and wrong-foot him. Variety. Federer is really the guy there that can give him consistent problems right now. He's probably the most consistent baseline striker in tennis and even Nadal's heavy balls are right in his strike zone and he just keeps pounding away. He plays an ugly style of tennis but he is unapologetic about it. He's got long arms and makes it difficult to consistently serve well because he reaches so much. He's impossible to lob at the net. His serve, though flat, is extremely difficult to return.

ChrisCrocker
11-09-2009, 07:01 PM
nalbandian is a bad match up for any top player, federer, nadal, djokovic, murray, JMDP, roddick.

GustafsonFanatic
11-10-2009, 02:01 AM
Federer: Defensive players. Guys who stay in good court position and make him go for the lines. Nadal is the best retriever perhaps of all-time (Borg?) and that is why he has beaten Federer, not the top spin to backhand thing that is so commonly cited (it was a big factor in the 2006 French Open final and ever since, people cite that...but what should be noted is Federer made more forehand errors than backhand ones in that 06 Final, and it really hasn't been a recurring theme since...Federer always shanks more balls than he should off BOTH wings against Nadal, but even that wasn't the deciding factor).

Nadal: Power players. The flat, hard-hitting, baseline ball bashers. This is so blatantly obvious it's unreal. He always had so much trouble with in form James Blake and Tomas Berdych...and now Del Potro and Soderling blast him off the court. Is it really any mystery why?

Murray: Anyone who plays him late in a Grand Slam. He really has no true Achilles heel other than himself. First it was his fitness, and now it's his mentality. If he didn't emote after every single freak'n point, he'd probably have won a Grand Slam by now. He's still prone to dumping service games out of nowhere...often after breaking the opponent. However, that's all mental. The guy can defuse any big server and he's too skilled for defensive players to beat him.

Djokovic: I don't think he has a glaring weakness, I just think his best stuff isn't good enough to consistently beat other guys' best stuff. Federer at the top of his game is just flat-out better in every area of tennis. Nadal does his thing to Djokovic like he does to everyone else; Djokovic actually does a better job of giving Nadal problems than most people. If Djokovic has a weakness besides his mental ability, I'd say it's with big serves. He just couldn't break Safin, Roddick, or Haas.

Del Potro: Fit players who run him around and wrong-foot him. Variety. Federer is really the guy there that can give him consistent problems right now. He's probably the most consistent baseline striker in tennis and even Nadal's heavy balls are right in his strike zone and he just keeps pounding away. He plays an ugly style of tennis but he is unapologetic about it. He's got long arms and makes it difficult to consistently serve well because he reaches so much. He's impossible to lob at the net. His serve, though flat, is extremely difficult to return.

Concerning Federer, why didn't he have problems with Hewitt?

About Nadal, a heavy hitter like Gonzalez hasn't won a set from Nadal in a long time, and Blake and Berdych cannot beat him anymore, although they could do so in his younger years. So I'm not entirely sure about the "hard-hitting theory".

I agree mostly about Murray, Djokovic and Potro.

Andres
11-10-2009, 02:26 AM
nalbandian is a bad match up for any top player, federer, nadal, djokovic, murray, JMDP, roddick.
I would agree, except the Djokovic part. I don't think Nabandian is a bad matchup for Nole.

Andres
11-10-2009, 02:32 AM
Concerning Federer, why didn't he have problems with Hewitt?
Didn't he?
Hewitt used to own Federer. Then Fed got too good for him. Even so, Hewitt still manages to keep it competitive against Roger, like we witnessed this last US Open in which he won the 1st set.

But yeah, he's not a threat anymore. Not a threat to BEAT him, I mean.

rosenstar
11-10-2009, 04:18 AM
Which game styles cause most trouble for each of the Top 5 ?

I'll try some:

Fed - probably pushers, like Murray and Simon. Nadal is a bad matchup as well, but he's the only player of his type (there is no "Nadal-type" of player other than Nadal himself)

Nadal - tall guys, with heavy and consistent shots (2HBH is a must, of course)

Murray - most would say big hitters, but I'm not so sure

Djokovic - pushers and players with lots of variety (Haas, Gulbis, Kohlschreiber)

Del Po - no idea really

pushers? There are no pushers at the professional level. Murray, Simon, and Nadal tend to beat Fed more often than not because they manage to control the Ad side of the court, and move and return well. The execute their game plans better than anyone else. By returning well, these players can take Fed's serve out of the equation. Finally, all these players over play the forehand until they manage to exploit the backhand. It helps that all of them can handle Fed's Pace.

Nadal doesn't lose to "tall guys" but players who take the ball early and flatten it out. When has Nadal ever lost to Ivo, Isner, or Querry? He's lost to Blake, Delpo and Youzhny in recent years. All these players beat him on hard courts, where his heavy topspin sits up instead of kicking up. These players can take the ball early, and hit a flat penetrating ball that goes through the court. This ball was very hard for Nadal to time with his extreme grips and deep court positioning. He has since adjusted to this tactic, and was nearly unbeatable until his injury.

Murray tends to lose to players who can exploit his forehand, push him off the baseline, and really grind out matches, like Nadal.

From what I've seen, Djoker tends to lose to all court players who can move him around, take him off the court, and exploit his forehand, Haas, Kohlschrieber, and Federer (people forget Federer is up 9-5 in the head-to-head).

Anaconda
11-10-2009, 04:39 AM
nalbandian is a bad match up for any top player, federer, nadal, djokovic, murray, JMDP, roddick.

He loses most of the time to djokovic, losing to Fed H2H, losing to Roddick H2H. Managed to beat a fatigued Nadal twice in as many weeks. Nalbandian is overrated.

dropshot winner
11-10-2009, 04:49 AM
He loses most of the time to djokovic, losing to Fed H2H, losing to Roddick H2H. Managed to beat a fatigued Nadal twice in as many weeks. Nalbandian is overrated.
It was not about Nadal beeing tired, Nalbandian is the only player that can go toe-to-toe with his backhand to Nadal's forehand. He could do that even with a injured hip, and that was the best Nadal we've seen so far on hardcourt.

Gen
11-10-2009, 04:58 AM
Bad matchup for Nadal are flat-hitters with a good BH who receive early (Blake, Nalbandian, Davydenko). Until recently Blake and Nalbandian were the only two active players who led their H2H with Nadal.

Bad matchup for Federer any mentally strong Top 20 player.

Bad matchup for Djokovic is Nadal. Djokovic seems to be unsure that he can beat Nadal.