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Noaler
11-08-2009, 03:53 PM
what would you do if you hit a pretty hard shot and your opponent slices the ball short and your running to get the ball. assuming your opponent also is a very good lobber.

Ripper014
11-08-2009, 04:08 PM
Depends... this is a great strategy against a 2-hb I always try to move an opponent away from his backhand and when given some angle hit it short and low with slice.

If you can get there early enough you can try and place the ball deep in a corner and move to the net. If your opponent is a constant lobber look for the lob. If your opponent is slow of foot you can hit it a soft angle dropshot. Again take the net and look for a weak popped up return you can put away.

Also be aware which side he is stronger on... most people will lob much better from one side... or tend to lob less on one side. This will allow you to have a better idea of what to expect when making your shot. You can also watch him as he hits it... most people will "usually" have their weight on their back foot when lobbing (unless it is a offensive or topspin lob).

5263
11-08-2009, 04:31 PM
what would you do if you hit a pretty hard shot and your opponent slices the ball short and your running to get the ball. assuming your opponent also is a very good lobber.

Depends on your strengths and the height of the bounce on his slice.

Noaler
11-08-2009, 05:00 PM
Depends on your strengths and the height of the bounce on his slice.

low, i could win the point easily if it was high...

5263
11-08-2009, 05:03 PM
low, i could win the point easily if it was high...

Ok, didn't want to assume, as many on here don't handle sitters that well.

I would drop shot or give a short low chip DTL.

naylor
11-08-2009, 05:21 PM
It depends, on
1) whether his short slice is a deliberate shot (i.e. taken under control, and meant to bring you up to the net on a ball which you have to run for and dig up) or is simply a lucky response by him to your previous hard shot; and
2) how comfortable you are at the net (and also, how comfortable your opponent is).

If he's brought you in deliberately, then he's playing to set up a pass or lob. In turn, what you have to do is make his execution as difficult as possible. A possible option, if he's left one side of the baseline uncovered, is to slice an approach deep to that side - the slice will keep the ball low (so difficult to get a topspin pass or lob off) and the placement will make him play it on the move. But here, you also have to bear in mind that certain shots on the run are more "on" from one wing than the other - forehand topspin passes and whipped lobs, for instance - so you may still be exposed if you approach to his forehand. If so, then a better option - and in my book the only option if your opponent is well balanced in the middle of the baseline, so covering the corners already - is to dink / drop the ball over the net in front of you (or if you can, even wider but still on that side).

The reason why I'd drop it there (rather than angled back across) is that you force your opponent to cover a greater distance diagonally across his court. That also gives you more time to steady yourself and continue to approach the net by following your drop in (the shortest distance for you to travel), blocking off the target for your opponent. If you get a weak pick-up, you have a simple putaway from close to the net, which just getting your racket to his ball should achieve (no great need for power or tight placement, just push it past him). And if he gets there in good time, then in principle he should pass you, but he may go for too cute a pass and miss, or you're blocking so much court that you somehow get to hit the ball over to the other side and stay in the point.

Overall, if he brings you up to the net deliberately, then - even if you're not too comfortable with your net play - you have to suck it and come in. Because if you play it (long or short) and then retreat, then you'll end up wrongfooted and stretched (either to a corner, or back up to the net with another drop) and will get given the run-around.

The other alternative is that his short ball is a lucky shot. Here, in principle, your own options as to where to play are the same, but what you'll also have is a little bit of extra time while your opponent regains his own balance and composure, and moves to cover your shot. Personally, I'd again recommend that - whatever you play, approach to the corner or drop - you follow in to the net again for a volley putaway. However, if you're not at all comfortable with your volleying, then (provided you've only been brought forward to the service line) you have the option of playing your shot and retreating to a neutral but strong position on or just in front of the baseline. The play here is to force your opponent to play another short ball, but one that bounces higher and which you can step into with a more pressing strike to drive the ball to a corner.

Nellie
11-08-2009, 05:46 PM
...give a short low chip DTL.

Yes - Approach down the line. and look for a volley.

But your real problem is that you were slow to go on offense. When you hit the good shot, thereby causing the weak, short response, you should already be at or inside the baseline looking to take advantage of a weak and/or short floater. You got the shot that you wanted but could not take advantage. If you were to the ball faster so that it is higher, you could have rolled the return crosscourt, more aggressively.

Noaler
11-08-2009, 05:59 PM
Yes - Approach down the line. and look for a volley.

But your real problem is that you were slow to go on offense. When you hit the good shot, thereby causing the weak, short response, you should already be at or inside the baseline looking to take advantage of a weak and/or short floater. You got the shot that you wanted but could not take advantage. If you were to the ball faster so that it is higher, you could have rolled the return crosscourt, more aggressively.

Ah, somewhat true i guess. but i have issues hitting hard on low shots. so i just put a lot of spin and hit crosscourt, but still some opponents catch on and reach it in time to lob.

hitting dtl works just as well hitting crosscourt whenever i have time. when i dont have time i always go dtl. i havent tried dropshots, but im going to try it out.

LeeD
11-09-2009, 08:07 AM
Hitting hard is one dimensional.
Low approaches, you go DTL with slice, DEEP. Nobody can lob accurately if you place the ball within 2' of the baseline. That's 6.0 level approach, it WILL beat your opponent.
A hard topspin CC is almost the worst, lowest percentage choice. Opponent knows it's coming (your full swing) and you can't cover the court.
Short angle CC's and DTL drops are the other alternatives. Use the one that solicits the short, softer returns from you opponent.
Remember, when you approach, play your first volley from just inside the service line. Don't go chargin thru the net! To cover the lob, turn sidways FIRST, then crabhop back. Never ever backpeddle.

Ripper014
11-09-2009, 08:19 AM
Hitting off a short low sliced ball instantly puts you in a defensive position... hitting down the line is an option, but realize it is also the highest part of the net so you are not going to be able to hit an offensive shot. What you should be a going for is depth, with spin. If the player can get to the ball comfortably he/she is not going to have a problem lobbing you, so your best bet is to get the ball deep in whichever corner where you have them hitting a shot on the run or least off balance.

Close the net and look for a weak return, but be prepared to hit an overhead if this is their tendancy.

As I mentioned earlier.... a short shot back is ok... but don't become predictable.

LeeD
11-09-2009, 09:32 AM
er...
Low short slices coming to you can easily be turned into an offensive shot....you just have to change your normal spin, place it deep, and that higher side net is a PLUS. It insures your shot will be higher, thus goes DEEPER!
If you approach CC, you can't cover the net, and an easy dink behind you or a normal DTL pass makes you run too far to get into position for a positive shot.
You don't need to hit much topspin to play offensive tennis. Rosewall and Connors hardly ever hit normal topspins, and they always made their opponent's run side to side for hours. Adding a side component to your slices can actually make them run farther than topspin shots!:shock:

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-09-2009, 09:53 AM
Finish that low skidding slice with an ankle to over the head topsin to the corner then charge the net and volley any further replies.

tennisdad65
11-09-2009, 10:23 AM
Finish that low skidding slice with an ankle to over the head topsin to the corner then charge the net and volley any further replies.

lol.. even the pro's cannot do that .. I have seen Del Potro, Soderling etc.. struggle with that low skidding slice from Fed.

LeeD
11-09-2009, 10:47 AM
Yeah, almost any CC topspin off a low skidder results in the lost of point by the approach player. Easily 75% loss.
If you approach off a low skidder, best to change the spin and pace on your stroke and go DTL. You cover much easier, staying DTL to cover fast moving passes, and knowing the CC pass us usually hit slower thru the air, giving you more time to get there...plus you're ready to head there, having the DTL covered.
Of course, if you playing well below your level, go for hard topspin CC's on your approaches.
Percentage of DTL to CC topspin approaches should be around 4-1. Add an occasional slice CC approach, but only for non important points to keep the opponent honest.

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-09-2009, 10:54 AM
Sampras was the master at the shot I was referring to. Fed may have the best slice in the game. I doubt the people you play with can hit it as consistent and low as Fed do you? No.

5263
11-09-2009, 10:58 AM
Hitting off a short low sliced ball instantly puts you in a defensive position..

yep, that's why I'm giving him a dose of his own meds, and now I have better position than he did, as I am at net as he must lift his reply and create any power his shot may require.

LeeD
11-09-2009, 11:36 AM
You guys must all be new school young'uns, and can hit the higher balls with ease, but have trouble with ankle high skidders.
My gen, the conti approach years, the ankle high skidders were normal balls we faced every few points. Chip and charge the mainstay tactic, we found it best to either slice DTL or CC, OR to hit topspin passes, even topspin lobs, off balls that were incoming ankle high. Remember to hit the outside of the ball for topspin. Slices are easy to keep low, so no putaway for the net charger.
And we nothing else seemed to work, the hard sliced lob over the backhand was the normal last resort, right after the deeper CC lob.
But the main and best thing about tennis was PUTTING THE BALL AWAY! That would include slicing a low deep approach DTL and volleying the next ball into the open court.

Ripper014
11-09-2009, 12:05 PM
Nope I am an old schooler... and back then as now there was nothing easy about returning a hard sliding sliced shot if it was out wide and you had to hit it on the run. The only time you can be really aggressive is when the ball is in your hitting zone where you can drive it (for most of us I think that is above the knee)... having the ball ankle height is hard to be aggressive on, you not only get the ball over the net but back down into the court. Hard do with any kind of pace, try doing it consistantly without excessive topspin.

If my opponent is coming to the net with this shot I just try to make a shot that will solict something weaker, so I can get a better look at the next ball.

But I agree if the opponent is coming to the net a well placed lob into the backhand corner is always a good tactic.

As for volleys... below the net play defensively by placing the ball deep, and anything above the net... put it away.

Ripper014
11-09-2009, 12:06 PM
yep, that's why I'm giving him a dose of his own meds, and now I have better position than he did, as I am at net as he must lift his reply and create any power his shot may require.

Obviously I agree with you.... and I use the same tactics off of short balls.

Ripper014
11-09-2009, 12:10 PM
Sampras was the master at the shot I was referring to. Fed may have the best slice in the game. I doubt the people you play with can hit it as consistent and low as Fed do you? No.

I am very consistant at hitting this shot... but I don't have to hit it against world class returns nor opponents that can run like the pros. Everything is relative...

Ripper014
11-09-2009, 12:19 PM
that higher side net is a PLUS

Having to hit over the highest part of the net is never a plus... and hitting the ball deep is a function of power and spin... one of the reasons you want to hit the ball over the middle of the net is that it is the lowest part. One less variable you have to deal with when keeping the ball in play.

1. over the net
2. inside the baseline
3. inside the sidelines

Easiest shot to hit... cross-court... lowest part of the net and longest shot you can make on the court (more room for error).

Hardest shot to make... down the line... highest part of the net... shortest shot for you get down inside the baseline.

Winning tennis is about making high percentage shots... or having your opponent make low percentage shots. This is why moonballers win alot... they play a low risk game... not my idea of tennis but I will admit effective at many levels.

Noaler
11-09-2009, 12:47 PM
lol. when i hit a crosscourt shot with spin is whenever im in position and its usually a winner until my opponent starts catching on to it. a dtl slice works for me pretty much all the time but against some opponents, they step in and slice lob and goes over my head barely cause im short!!!

so far i havent faced any players that drop-shot on purpose and can take me down at the net.

Noaler
11-09-2009, 12:51 PM
Hitting hard is one dimensional.
Low approaches, you go DTL with slice, DEEP. Nobody can lob accurately if you place the ball within 2' of the baseline. That's 6.0 level approach, it WILL beat your opponent.

Yeah but I guess thats what i need to work on since a lot are just barely past the service line

LeeD
11-09-2009, 02:38 PM
Ripper, don't read so much tennis theory and play some tennis. You'd find theory is just that, and practical application is often counter to theory.
DTL approaches are easiest for almost all decent players to hit deep, as depth is a constant.
CC approaches, while going low over the net (or high with it's long court), just gives the opponent an easy passing shot...either behind you soft, or fast paced down the line, which you have to run really far to cover.
If you can't maintain a constant height over the net on your approaches, just practice more, don't say it can't be done.

Ripper014
11-09-2009, 03:07 PM
I have played more than my share of tennis and though I am just coming back for a 15 year hiatus doesn't mean I don't understand the game of tennis.

Don't assume I am a casual player... I don't think anyone that has ever seen me play assumes that.

I seldom approach the net on a cross-court ball... that is because I am more than capable of hitting a sidespin approach shot off either wing with equal effectiveness that kicks away from my opponent.

I also don't hit outside the ball to generate topspin all that does is make you hit cross-court. I once asked a very good open player how he hit his inside out forehand... his response was interesting. Though it was something I did instinctively and I am sure most of us do, he said that he treated it like playing pool strike the ball on the inside half you will hit an inside out shot... the outside half for cross court and the middle well pretty self explanatory.

I don't think I ever said a shot could not be done... but that it was not as easy as you seem to infer it is... like I said in my previous post something skidding ankle high is not easy to deal with. let alone trying to hit some kind of aggressive shot down the line on the run with either top or underspin.

And the best approach shot is one where you make your opponent hit the ball off balance... or off their weaker side... in some cases I will approach cross court if they are obviously covering the down the line and guess what sometimes it becomes a clean winner.

papa
11-09-2009, 04:10 PM
I'd have to assume the bouce, at least by the time I got there, was going to be low. I would also assume the opponent would be looking for something down the line or straight on so I'd go cross court as much as I could but thats a tough shot you'll have to practice. Very effective but not easy - work on it, you'll enjoy the results.

fruitytennis1
11-09-2009, 04:48 PM
I would hit a cross-court drop shot.

Slazenger07
11-09-2009, 07:41 PM
My friend does this all the time, when he hits the short slice I quickly get up to it and whip my nasty topspin forehand, usually towards his backhand and close the net.

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-10-2009, 07:23 AM
True ripper.

defrule
11-10-2009, 07:40 AM
Being a lefty, I would try to whip it crosscourt to the sidelines.

LeeD
11-10-2009, 10:36 AM
Seems to me, Ripper is just agreeing with me, but does so with a combative attitude.
We both agree DTL approaches are the first choice with the highest percentage of success.
We both agree you have to go CC OCCASIONALLY to get to a weaker side and/or keep the player honest.
And since we all know the DTL goes over a higher netcord, we LIVE WITH IT!
And CC, with it's lower net court but longer court, we can't control the depth quite as easily! :shock::shock:
As for hitting outside the ball on topspin approaches. You can hit like that DTL if you just turned your body more. Sure, CC approaches are more natural when you choose topspin on the approach, but topspin approaches don't make sense because they replicate your normal rally ball, they go faster, then bounce higher, your stroke is easier to read (they've seen it), so why hit topspin approaches?

Ripper014
11-10-2009, 11:13 AM
Seems to me, Ripper is just agreeing with me, but does so with a combative attitude.
We both agree DTL approaches are the first choice with the highest percentage of success.
We both agree you have to go CC OCCASIONALLY to get to a weaker side and/or keep the player honest.
And since we all know the DTL goes over a higher netcord, we LIVE WITH IT!
And CC, with it's lower net court but longer court, we can't control the depth quite as easily! :shock::shock:
As for hitting outside the ball on topspin approaches. You can hit like that DTL if you just turned your body more. Sure, CC approaches are more natural when you choose topspin on the approach, but topspin approaches don't make sense because they replicate your normal rally ball, they go faster, then bounce higher, your stroke is easier to read (they've seen it), so why hit topspin approaches?

I agree with parts of what you are saying... but not the whole. I have laid out my argument and I am more than happy to agree that in some things we don't agree.

As for topspin approach shots... I have been known to do it when I have time and the ball is in my comfortable hitting zone, I am more than happy to come forward on a hard hit ball in a corner with topspin (ask Nadal) for a winner or near winner. This makes hitting a volley even easier. But then I am just as happy coming to the net behind a hard hit low slice or sidespin ball deep in the corner... which is why we are posting in this thread, it is a shot that can promote a weaker return and because it is a bit of a slower shot gives me time to get in a better volley position.

As for hitting cross-court... during rallys, I definitely do that... but I also hit down the middle a lot more... and also down the line as well. When I do hit these shots I don't exclusively hit topspin... in fact it is seldom I will hit more than 2 groundstrokes the same in a row. And I don't have a problem getting depth on a cross court approach shot... in fact no one I play with seems to have that issue.

I am not trying to combative... I just find some of the things you say misleading in my opinion. And that is all it is... my opinion.

mike53
11-10-2009, 12:00 PM
I was attending a USTA coaching clinic and one of the activities there was for our team to develop and execute a lesson plan. For the subject, I suggested "sliced down the line approach shot after a short hit". Seemed to me like a valuable shot to teach, but my teammates looked at me like I had two heads. "Too hard to hit" they said. So we worked up a plan for the cross court shot and everybody loved it.

LeeD
11-10-2009, 01:10 PM
Exactly! Neat post!
If it's easy, it'd be kiteboarding.
Easy means everyone can do it, does do it, and it's easily countered.