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Fedex
11-12-2009, 03:38 AM
I've said this a few times now and as time goes on I'm becoming more conviced but I'm wondering if other people sense this.

I think Murray has a physical problem.
He lacks the natural strength to compete consistently enough to be at the very top of the game
Sure he is extremely talented and successful by most players standards but has to work his butt off, more than others, to attain the strength and fitness required.
He suffers disproportionately from sore joints and has a knee disability.
I think he has the talent to win multiple slams but I just don't think his body is up to it.
People complain that he is a pusher and should play more aggresively but I believe he is not physically able to. Not consistently anyway.
I feel sorry for him because I think, deep down, he knows that this is the case and it fills him with self doubt and frustration and may explain the grumpiness and self harming, shouting at grass type of behaviour on court. And keeping the self doubt at bay by C'moning to himself.
Last night he just looked so bloody miserable.
What do you think?
I think it would explain a lot.
No Murray hating brainless comments please. Think logically about what's being said.
Murray is a wonderful player there is no doubt but is his body capable?

Anaconda
11-12-2009, 03:40 AM
Disagree. Murray doesn't lack the mental strength. The only reason he doesn't have a Grand Slam title now is because he never uses his weapons correctly.

Jimmy connors was the same as Murray. He looked depressed and had the look of disbelief as he walked onto the court. It's a facade.

Blinkism
11-12-2009, 03:56 AM
He lacks discipline!

TheMagicianOfPrecision
11-12-2009, 03:58 AM
Disagree. Murray doesn't lack the mental strength. The only reason he doesn't have a Grand Slam title now is because he never uses his weapons correctly.

Jimmy connors was the same as Murray. He looked depressed and had the look of disbelief as he walked onto the court. It's a facade.
Agree with this.

Fedex
11-12-2009, 04:59 AM
Disagree. Murray doesn't lack the mental strength. The only reason he doesn't have a Grand Slam title now is because he never uses his weapons correctly.


Agree with this.

Can you expand.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
11-12-2009, 05:02 AM
Can you expand.

Sure, in AO this year he got sick (unfortunately) USO-final last year he was caught by the moment and frooze to ice, this year SF- at Wimbledon he was scared to hit the ball, afraid of losing, to sum it up as another poster said he has the weapons but cant seem to use them at the right time-at the GS.

mental midget
11-12-2009, 05:24 AM
i think murray is a great player, and he'll get his major/s, sooner or later. however, and i don't know how else to phrase this, he just doesn't seem to have the 'live arm' of guys like roger, novak, and nadal. those guys have an elasticity and acceleration in their games that i just don't see in andy's. it's partly mechanics, but beyond that, just in the way they move, the way they hit the ball--it's different.

Fedex
11-12-2009, 07:26 AM
i think murray is a great player, and he'll get his major/s, sooner or later. however, and i don't know how else to phrase this, he just doesn't seem to have the 'live arm' of guys like roger, novak, and nadal. those guys have an elasticity and acceleration in their games that i just don't see in andy's. it's partly mechanics, but beyond that, just in the way they move, the way they hit the ball--it's different.

It's all in the wrist.
Wrist strength makes a massive difference.
Being able to keep the wrist solid or add a flick to change direction, disguise or give that extra bit of spin.
An example I can think of from personal experience is my father who has the strongest wrists of anyone I've ever met. He's of average height and build but those wrists are like vice grips even in his old age.
People who fought him at school or boxed in the army still remember the hammer like punches many decades on.
Murray, I guess, does not have that natural strength.
People like Federer and Nadal do and they can add that extra bit of spice onto the ball.
They just have that slightly different muscle sinew make up.
A chimpanzee's arm is not much bigger than a man's yet it is seven times stronger!
I'm not saying Murray is weak. Maybe average or above average but I would guess the likes of Federer and Nadal have exceptional natural muscle and, especially, wrist strength.
Murray is at a big disadvantage here and that is often why you'll see him getting bossed about the court by the big hitters.
He doesn't have the strength to boss back and has to depend more on his guile and skill to win.

nethawkwenatchee
11-12-2009, 07:43 AM
Murray carries an old school "chip" on his shoulder. It seems to me he has plenty of everthing to win and he has proved this time and again over the past two seasons. Slams appear to be inevitable from my view but the stars do need to align for this to happen (for anyone)

tahiti
11-12-2009, 08:09 AM
I don't think the natural strength has got anything to do with it. He knows how to move his opponent around and keep them running. Grand slams will come for Murray, it's just not his time yet. But come, I believe they will. He's got a pretty strong field right now with a consistent Del Potro, Rafa, Novak and Roger in the mix plus upcoming peaking players. Andy has all the goods in house, nothing lacking in my opinion.

Feņa14
11-12-2009, 08:20 AM
Sure, in AO this year he got sick (unfortunately) USO-final last year he was caught by the moment and frooze to ice, this year SF- at Wimbledon he was scared to hit the ball, afraid of losing, to sum it up as another poster said he has the weapons but cant seem to use them at the right time-at the GS.

That's actually quite accurate, the last part of it especially.

I wouldn't say he froze in the US Open final though personally, Federer played right at his very best and it was too much for Murray, particularly after his big match with Nadal less than 24 hours earlier. Djokovic suffered something similar to Federer in the final there in 2007, whilst del Potro this year had a slightly out of sorts Federer to deal with and he did it well.

Anaconda
11-12-2009, 08:25 AM
That's actually quite accurate, the last part of it especially.

I wouldn't say he froze in the US Open final though personally, Federer played right at his very best and it was too much for Murray, particularly after his big match with Nadal less than 24 hours earlier. Djokovic suffered something similar to Federer in the final there in 2007, whilst del Potro this year had a slightly out of sorts Federer to deal with and he did it well.

Yep, Federer was up in the 60's and 70's (1st serve) against Murray and djokovic. I'm not sure but he was well under 50% against JMDP.

coloskier
11-12-2009, 05:42 PM
I don't think strength is his problem. He is hitting 130 mph serves. His problem is upstairs, AND, the type of game he plays. Too passive.

Morrissey
11-12-2009, 06:56 PM
He tends to fall into his safe play too much when it counts. But that's a mentality he needs to change. He can crank it up, but if he's in a tight moment he falls into that passive mode and that's why he can't win in the slams.

Chadwixx
11-12-2009, 07:01 PM
He just needs to spend a weekend "training" with nadal, problem solved :)

hondas2k
11-12-2009, 07:36 PM
He tends to fall into his safe play too much when it counts. But that's a mentality he needs to change. He can crank it up, but if he's in a tight moment he falls into that passive mode and that's why he can't win in the slams.

agreed. i was watching him vs. stepanek earlier today. he didnt really hit the ball really hard he used to be. he seems tired and doesnt wanna try.

Very disappointed match.

Gugafan
11-12-2009, 07:42 PM
I think a big problem for Murray is the forehand. He can do anything with it on the run or when given pace, but struggles to generate his own pace like a Gonzo, Fed and Nadal. Perhaps thats what the OP means by 'lacking natural strength'.

You really feel Murray has to use alot of energy when he is trying to hit aggressively with the forehand and often ends up playing alot more passive loopy moonballs. He just cant produce that effortless pace off the forehand wing like Verdasco, Gonzalez, Cillic, Del Potro, Fed, Nadal, Soderling etc.

BobFL
11-12-2009, 07:55 PM
He just plays waaaaaay to safe tennis. He must be more aggressive. He looks bored out there...

World Beater
11-12-2009, 07:56 PM
murray lacks racquet head speed in the fh, which is why he finds it difficult to be aggressive in neutral rallies.

murray is very strong - see his serve..he can pop it and when he wants to he can flatten his fh. but flattening the fh can only be done when the ball is in the right slot and is a high risk play if its not.

he needs more spin and racquet head speed to be more naturally aggressive in rallies.

Vyse
11-12-2009, 07:57 PM
murray is fine strength wise. he is probably in some of the best shape on tour. I believe his problem is upstairs and maybe his style. He will win a slam next year. He will also probably tweak his style a bit and perhaps be more aggressive but not much. He will win!

Vyse
11-12-2009, 07:58 PM
if anything, all the crap the media and whoever have been giving him will force to change and eventually win

Feņa14
11-12-2009, 08:58 PM
agreed. i was watching him vs. stepanek earlier today. he didnt really hit the ball really hard he used to be. he seems tired and doesnt wanna try.

Very disappointed match.

He was a bit tired yeah, he won in Valencia last week after being out for 2 months and only finished his match the night before at 2 in the morning. He didn't really seem up for it today which would suggest he's saving himself for London.

Ripster
11-12-2009, 09:09 PM
I've said this a few times now and as time goes on I'm becoming more conviced but I'm wondering if other people sense this.

I think Murray has a physical problem.
He lacks the natural strength to compete consistently enough to be at the very top of the game
Sure he is extremely talented and successful by most players standards but has to work his butt off, more than others, to attain the strength and fitness required.
He suffers disproportionately from sore joints and has a knee disability.
I think he has the talent to win multiple slams but I just don't think his body is up to it.
People complain that he is a pusher and should play more aggresively but I believe he is not physically able to. Not consistently anyway.
I feel sorry for him because I think, deep down, he knows that this is the case and it fills him with self doubt and frustration and may explain the grumpiness and self harming, shouting at grass type of behaviour on court. And keeping the self doubt at bay by C'moning to himself.
Last night he just looked so bloody miserable.
What do you think?
I think it would explain a lot.
No Murray hating brainless comments please. Think logically about what's being said.
Murray is a wonderful player there is no doubt but is his body capable?

Playing defensively is more physically taxing than playing offensively. If you're suggesting that Murray lacks that power or weapons to play attacking style tennis then you should check out his 2008 US Open semifinal against Nadal. He has the ability and strength to hit winners and attack but he pushes as a tactic instead and it's killing him.

crazylevity
11-12-2009, 09:12 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/19/article-0-0317ADB3000005DC-794_468x628.jpg

bluetrain4
11-12-2009, 10:06 PM
He tends to fall into his safe play too much when it counts. But that's a mentality he needs to change. He can crank it up, but if he's in a tight moment he falls into that passive mode and that's why he can't win in the slams.

Exactly. Yeah, it's fun to watch him drive people crazy by moving them around, but at a Slam, over 7 matches, one or more of a few things eventually happens: (1) He's slightly off, and considering his game style (trying to extract errors), he really can't afford to be; (2) his opponent is "on" and their winner to error ratio is good enough for them to beat Murray; (3) as you said, he gets passive and doesn't take it too his opponent enough at key times, even though he's generally playing well enough to win.

Also, as great of shape as he's in, if you play that game style, running your opponent around, you will eventually get tired too. So, Murray may have a great win, but then he can come out flat in a subsequent match.

OddJack
11-12-2009, 10:14 PM
Murray is now a pleasure to watch getting beaten by the likes of Stepanek.
It's almost as good as watching Rodge beat Rafa.

mandy01
11-12-2009, 10:43 PM
Murray is passive..and its sad seeing he's one of the tactically sound players on tour.He's definitely one of the best thinkers.
Exactly why he is passive I dont know but I dont like to watch him anymore..

Leelord337
11-12-2009, 10:47 PM
he needs to be kicked into shape by rex kwon do, lol
http://thumbnails.hulu.com/6/289/4427_512x288_manicured__z9YQGDRC7Eqs7sveAnZfhQ.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3FQCZrFS94

norbac
11-12-2009, 10:59 PM
Federer is now a pleasure to watch, losing to the likes of Bennetau...

Fedex
11-13-2009, 05:21 AM
murray lacks racquet head speed in the fh, which is why he finds it difficult to be aggressive in neutral rallies.

murray is very strong - see his serve..he can pop it and when he wants to he can flatten his fh. but flattening the fh can only be done when the ball is in the right slot and is a high risk play if its not.

he needs more spin and racquet head speed to be more naturally aggressive in rallies.

As I said, it's all in the wrist.
Strong wrist means no waiver when you strike or block the ball and you can add that extra bit, and disguise, with a good flick of the wrist.

federer_FREAK
11-13-2009, 05:26 AM
He lacks discipline!

He rack disciprine

batz
11-13-2009, 05:50 AM
Some interesteing comments here, most of the right on the money.

I don't think Murray lacks strength. He needs that 1st slam sometime soon though.

Anaconda
11-13-2009, 06:01 AM
I wonder how many slams JMDP and Djokovic will have by the time Murray gets his first?

grafselesfan
11-13-2009, 06:02 AM
Murray is being bypassed again by Djokovic, and could by by Del Potro once Del Potro gets his game together again, if things dont change. If he cant get out of his defensive shell he is currently in he might never win a slam actually. I agree he has the ability to play more offensively but he has to actually go out there and do it, or he will continue to dissapoint.

mental midget
11-13-2009, 06:10 AM
murray is among the best in the world at making the other guy miss. the only problem is, particularly in the late stages of a major, you're going to run into a guy who just isn't missing all that much.

Fedex
11-13-2009, 06:21 AM
Some interesteing comments here, most of the right on the money.

I don't think Murray lacks strength. He needs that 1st slam sometime soon though.

Sorry I think he does.
He has less natural strength and weaker joints than his main opponents.
Sure he's worked like mad to get a good physique.
Anyone can but natural strength, the sinews you were born with is a different story.
This is my opinion of course. I may be wrong but just from observing him in the past few years, I just don't think his body is physically capable of lasting the demands required to win a Slam
He may prove me wrong.
Maybe if he drops out of lots of other tournaments, might be his only chance.
Maybe that's what he 's trying?

batz
11-13-2009, 06:30 AM
Sorry I think he does.
He has less natural strength and weaker joints than his main opponents.
Sure he's worked like mad to get a good physique.
Anyone can but natural strength, the sinews you were born with is a different story.
This is my opinion of course. I may be wrong but just from observing him in the past few years, I just don't think his body is physically capable of lasting the demands required to win a Slam
He may prove me wrong.
Maybe if he drops out of lots of other tournaments, might be his only chance.
Maybe that's what he 's trying?

You're entitled to your opinion mate - time will tell if his slam underformance is down to an intrinsic lack of strength.

Fedex
11-13-2009, 06:47 AM
You're entitled to your opinion mate - time will tell if his slam underformance is down to an intrinsic lack of strength.

It's not about time Batz. I can see it. It's obvious to me.
He may still win a Slam though with his great talent and some better luck, he could still do it but the conditions would all have to be right, and that is unlikely.
Last year he had a chance against Federer in the US Open final but he was tired because the selectors screwed up with the scheduling.
He had that gruelling match with Nadal the day before the final.
The point I'm making is that if he was naturally strong, his body would more likely have been able to cope with the demands.
Federer's body can adjust more quickly and take the strains better which is why he can see things through to the end.

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-13-2009, 07:36 AM
It seems like a bad approach imho to play the type of game he plays with his size and weight. It is much better suited to a guy like Ferrer or Hewitt who is very fast and lightweight. But he enjoys much success.