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View Full Version : Luckiest player of last 15 years


cuddles26
11-12-2009, 03:24 AM
Since my last poll didnt satisfy some people I will alter some of the options for this one. Who do you believe was the luckiest players of the last 15 years.

Anaconda
11-12-2009, 03:25 AM
Thread of absolute FAIL!!!!!

cuddles26
11-12-2009, 03:32 AM
Thread of absolute FAIL!!!!!

The only fail is an idiot who thinks Djokovic can beat Federer at Wimbledon or that Hewitt will be in the top 8 next year, ROTFL!!!!

dropshot winner
11-12-2009, 03:41 AM
Nadal was lucky that he won almost every close match in slams, even when he got outplayed for most of the time, but he's by no means one of the luckiest, and neither is Federer who lost many close matches in slams (03 USO, 05 AO, 06 RG, 08 Wimbledon, 09 AO, 09 USO).

Rafter played well and deserved to win the US both times, but he was bit lucky that Sampras was injured one time, but he could've won anyway.
Coria and Hewitt weren't lucky at all, especially the later.

Kafelnikov was lucky that he won 2 slams, bit overachiever IMO.

Usually I don't care about the WTA, but in this case I pick Graf, if Seles had not been stabed she could've well won 7-10 slams less, that's some massive "luck".

cuddles26
11-12-2009, 03:46 AM
Well Rafter I think was even luckier in 97 U.S Open than the 98 version since Sampras would have crushed him badly if they played that year but lost early, and other than Chang in the semis his whole draw was a cakewalk. I think in the quarters he played Larsson and in the final Rusedski. In the round of 16 he played Agassi which is actually a dream draw that year as Agassi's tennis wasnt even top 50 calibre that year (amazing he even made the round of 16 that year).

dropshot winner
11-12-2009, 03:49 AM
Well Rafter I think was even luckier in 97 U.S Open than the 98 version since Sampras would have crushed him badly if they played that year but lost early, and other than Chang in the semis his whole draw was a cakewalk. I think in the quarters he played Larsson and in the final Rusedski. In the round of 16 he played Agassi which is actually a dream draw that year as Agassi's tennis wasnt even top 50 calibre that year (amazing he even made the round of 16 that year).
I just checked his 97 draw, you're right. His best wins were "Crystal Meth"-Agassi and inconsistent Krajicek.

No wonder McEncroe called him a one-slam wonder at the time.

grafselesfan
11-12-2009, 04:01 AM
I still vote for Crapriati.

grafselesfan
11-12-2009, 04:02 AM
Usually I don't care about the WTA, but in this case I pick Graf, if Seles had not been stabed she could've well won 7-10 slams less, that's some massive "luck".

Graf only won 11 slams after the stabbing. Up to 10 less!?!? That would require Monica holding Graf to only 1 Wimbledon, good luck with that, LOL! Their 2 matches on grass Monica got 4 games in 4 total sets. I wont even bother getting into a long drawn out discussion over the rest as I am a fan of both players, but you already fail.

dropshot winner
11-12-2009, 04:11 AM
Graf only won 11 slams after the stabbing. Up to 10 less!?!? That would require Monica holding Graf to only 1 Wimbledon, good luck with that, LOL! Their 2 matches on grass Monica got 4 games in 4 total sets. I wont even bother getting into a long drawn out discussion over the rest as I am a fan of both players, but you already fail.

Why not? Graf's confidence would've been at a VERY different level if she had kept losing to Seles, even against other player that would've been significant, she probably would've lost matches like the 93 Wimbledon final.

Her confidence would've been way lower and that of her opponents way higher.

And you know that Seles was not playing nearly as well as she could both time she faced Graf on grass (Seles was a little girl in 89, 92 was the grunt-controvery).

Graf is the better grass court player, but she could've lost to Seles.

flying24
11-12-2009, 04:12 AM
ROTFL at anyone who thinks Seles could beat Graf at Wimbledon. After the 92 embarassment Seles probably would have either purposely lost before facing Graf, or wimped out on Wimbledon with a phony late made up excuse like she did in 91, just to avoid facing her there again.

grafselesfan
11-12-2009, 04:16 AM
Why not? Graf's confidence would've been at a VERY different level if she had kept losing to Seles, even against other player that would've been significant, she probably would've lost matches like the 93 Wimbledon final.

Her confidence would've been way lower and that of her opponents way higher.

And you know that Seles was not playing nearly as well as she could both time she faced Graf on grass (Seles was a little girl in 89, 92 was the grunt-controvery).

Graf is the better grass court player, but she could've lost to Seles.

Blah blah blah.

The grunting thing is a cheesy excuse for Seles fanatics who hate Graf for why Monica got her *** kicked in that day. They are the only ones (and I can already tell you must be one) who bring that up. As for their 89 match, Monica was already good enough to take Graf to 3 sets on clay but only able to get 1 game on grass. So that only goes to show further Graf was such an awful matchup for Monica on grass, that Seles would basically have to reach the point she was destroying Graf on clay before she would come close to her on grass. I love Monica, but Monica her whole career has been a much worse player on grass than all other surfaces, no excuses. She wouldnt have even been in the 92 final at all if she had Graf's draw instead of her own.

Graf's confidence vs her pigeons like Novotna would be no different with or without Seles. Dont kid yourself.

If you think Graf would have won less slams without the stabbing fine, I agree she would have, but your 7-10 guesstimate is a joke.

dropshot winner
11-12-2009, 04:16 AM
ROTFL at anyone who thinks Seles could beat Graf at Wimbledon. After the 92 embarassment Seles probably would have either purposely lost before facing Graf, or wimped out on Wimbledon with a phony late made up excuse like she did in 91, just to avoid facing her there again.

The same was said about Nadal beating Federer on grass before Wimbledon 2006.
Seles likely hadn't even reached her peak in 93.

zagor
11-12-2009, 04:19 AM
Why not? Graf's confidence would've been at a VERY different level if she had kept losing to Seles, even against other player that would've been significant, she probably would've lost matches like the 93 Wimbledon final.

Her confidence would've been way lower and that of her opponents way higher.

And you know that Seles was not playing nearly as well as she could both time she faced Graf on grass (Seles was a little girl in 89, 92 was the grunt-controvery).

Graf is the better grass court player, but she could've lost to Seles.

I don't know,I liked Seles a lot and I could definitely see her improving on grass since 92 enough to win Wimbledon in some of the next few years if she wasn't stabbed but winning Wimbledon beating Graf? Don't see that happening.

Seles was beating Graf mostly on rebound ace and clay and even there matches were usually very close.

flying24
11-12-2009, 04:19 AM
The same was said about Nadal beating Federer on grass before Wimbledon 2006.
Seles likely hadn't even reached her peak in 93.

You fail completely with that parallel. Nadal took Federer to 4 sets in the 2006 final, and could have been up 2 sets to 1 if he didnt choke serving for the 2nd set. Monica took 3 games off Graf in the 92 final, was bullied off the court. The gap between Graf and Seles on grass was 10 times bigger than the gap between Nadal and Federer on grass was by 2006. Also people already recognized Nadal was a real threat to Federer on grass in the future after that 2006 final.

If Monica were going to win Wimbledon even without the stabbing she would have done a heck of alot better than her 2nd and 3rd round losses to journeywomen opponents she killed on other surfaces in the 4 years after the stabbing. The stabbing would never make enough difference to translate a regular early round loser to a champion. Even with the stabbing she was regularly making semis and finals of other slams on her better surfaces the first 4 years back.

Monica had one shot to win Wimbledon maybe. 1994, the year Graf lost early, Novotna and Sanchez Vicario went out, and it was Martinez and nearly 40 year old Navratilova in the final . That is it. Although if Monica were there the draw possibly changes, Graf possibly doesnt lose 1st round, and then goes on to win, so might gain another Wimbledon already. Then if she is only 1 away from the record she might have more determination in 98-99 or to play another year or two and try and get it. Strangely enough at Wimbledon Graf may have gained without the Seles stabbing even.

dropshot winner
11-12-2009, 04:21 AM
Blah blah blah.

The grunting thing is a cheesy excuse for Seles fanatics who hate Graf for why Monica got her *** kicked in that day. They are the only ones (and I can already tell you must be one) who bring that up. I love Monica, but Monica her whole career has been a much worse player on grass than all other surfaces, no excuses. She wouldnt have even been in the 92 final at all if she had Graf's draw instead of her own.

Graf's confidence vs her pigeons like Novotna would be no different with or without Seles. Dont kid yourself.

If you think Graf would have won less slams without the stabbing fine, I agree she would have, but your 7-10 guesstimate is a joke.
I couldn't care less about Graf and Seles.

One point probably made the difference in the Graf/Novotna match. Had Graf lost to Seles in RG 93 she and Novotna would've been in a different mindset.

It doesn't matter if Graf would've won 5 or 10 slams less, what matters is that the stabbing had way more influence on history than any event of any other player in the poll options.

grafselesfan
11-12-2009, 04:26 AM
Jana is a mental midget of epic proportions, especialy when she plays Graf or Navratilova (the two players she seems to kiss *** most of for some reason, and Martina even in her old age). To think Graf losing or not losing to Seles in the French Open final would somehow tie into her not choking vs Graf in the Wimbledon final on grass in her strange competitive brain is so laughable.

dropshot winner
11-12-2009, 04:26 AM
You fail completely with that parallel. Nadal took Federer to 4 sets in the 2006 final, and could have been up 2 sets to 1 if he didnt choke serving for the 2nd set. Monica took 3 games off Graf in the 92 final, was bullied off the court. The gap between Graf and Seles on grass was 10 times bigger than the gap between Nadal and Federer on grass was by 2006. Also people already recognized Nadal was a real threat to Federer on grass in the future after that 2006 final.

If Monica were going to win Wimbledon even without the stabbing she would have done a heck of alot better than her 2nd and 3rd round losses to journeywomen opponents she killed on other surfaces in the 4 years after the stabbing. The stabbing would never make enough difference to translate a regular early round loser to a champion. Even with the stabbing she was regularly making semis and finals of other slams on her better surfaces the first 4 years back.

I wrote "BEFORE Wimbledon06".

What if Federer had played a 15 year old Nadal in an early round like Graf did with Seles?
Federer would've beaten him EASILY, so that has absolutely no relevance.

If Nadal had retired before Wimbledon 2006 no one would ever give him credit as having a good game for grass or troubling Federer on the surface.

Had Seles kept working on her game and beating Graf on all other slams she likely would'v beaten Graf eventually, and all other players would not have choked as much against Graf.

flying24
11-12-2009, 04:31 AM
I wrote "BEFORE Wimbledon06".

What if Federer had played a 15 year old Nadal in an early round like Graf did with Seles?
Federer would've beaten him EASILY, so that has absolutely no relevance.

If Nadal had retired before Wimbledon 2006 no one would ever give him credit as having a good game for grass or troubling Federer on the surface.

Had Seles kept working on her game and beating Graf on all other slams she likely would'v beaten Graf eventually, and all other players would not have choked as much against Graf.

LOL Seles in 92 was where Nadal was in 2006 if not further along keeping in mind women prime MUCH earlier than men. If I have to explain this to you if you are someone who follows tennis closely (as you seem to)then that would be sad. An 18 and a half year old early blooming women who had been dominating tennis for almost two years has less development left than a barely 20 year old boy who clearly had not primed on non clay surfaces yet. Yet Nadal in 2006 was already much more of a threat to the best (Federer) on grass than Seles was by 1992, inspite of her place in the Wimbledon final (which wouldnt have happened if she were in Graf's half with Sabatini and Capriati anyway). If Monica was going to have this monstrous spike in her grass court game she wouldnt have performed so absymally on it after the stabbing either. The stabbing gives her some leighweigh of her post stabbing performances, but in no way can it be an excuse to justify for regularly losing 2nd and 3rd round at Wimbledon and looking completely out to sea on it, sorry.

Seles was no lock to beat Graf in the other slams either. She has never beaten Graf on a fast surface, so if Graf managed to make a U.S Open final which she wasnt doing during her massive 90-92 slump but began doing again in 93-96 I would favor her over Seles there. Their 92 French Open final was incredibly close, and on clay overall they were a pretty even match throughout their careers when they played. Monica had perfect luck with health and no injuries or illness whatsoever in the early 90s. This would not have lasted forever, in fact before the stabbing she already had her first serious illness which caused her to miss 6 weeks and makes it doubtful already she was going to be at her best for that years French. After the stabbing she had more injuries, and one would be a fool to think each of these were directly related to the stabbing somehow. The absolute perfect situation she had in the couple pre stabbing years: no injuries or illness at all, winning all the extremely close matches in slams even with her incredible mental toughness (91 AO semis and final, 91 U.S semis, 92 FO semis and final and 4th round), Graf losing before the finals so often, the other top players of the time being worse matchups for Graf than her, would not have lasted forever. Graf would have begun beating Seles in other slam finals before Monica would ever beat Graf in a Wimbledon final (that is if she even managed to play Graf in another Wimbledon final ever again).

dropshot winner
11-12-2009, 04:33 AM
Jana is a mental midget of epic proportions, especialy when she plays Graf or Navratilova (the two players she seems to kiss *** most of for some reason, and Martina even in her old age). To think Graf losing or not losing to Seles in the French Open final would somehow tie into her not choking vs Graf in the Wimbledon final on grass in her strange competitive brain is so laughable.

One point likely decided that match.

Had Seles beaten Graf in the FO of 93 Graf would known that her era was over for good.
You can't tell me that a Novotna with a bit more confidence couldn't have won that point against a Graf with far less confidence.

feetofclay
11-12-2009, 04:36 AM
How can Nadal be included in a poll about the luckiest player over the last 15 years? He was 8 years old fifteen years ago. Federer would only have been 13.

grafselesfan
11-12-2009, 04:37 AM
One point likely decided that match.

Had Seles beaten Graf in the FO of 93 Graf would known that her era was over for good.
You can't tell me that a Novotna with a bit more confidence couldn't have won that point against a Graf with far less confidence.

You really dont understand tennis at all if you think a Novotna-like personality would have a bit more confidence when playing Graf on grass in a Wimbledon fianl, based on whether or not Graf was the reigning French Open Champion or reigning overall World #1 or not. I am not even going to bother arguing this futher as you are just making me laugh now.

dropshot winner
11-12-2009, 04:38 AM
LOL Seles in 92 was where Nadal was in 2006 if not further along keeping in mind women prime MUCH earlier than men. If I have to explain this to you if you are someone who follows tennis closely (as you seem to)then that would be sad. An 18 and a half year old early blooming women who had been dominating tennis for almost two years has less development left than a barely 20 year old boy who clearly had not primed on non clay surfaces yet. Yet Nadal in 2006 was already much more of a threat to the best (Federer) on grass than Seles was by 1992, inspite of her place in the Wimbledon final (which wouldnt have happened if she were in Graf's half with Sabatini and Capriati anyway). If Monica was going to have this monstrous spike in her grass court game she wouldnt have performed so absymally on it after the stabbing either. The stabbing gives her some leighweigh of her post stabbing performances, but in no way can it be an excuse to justify for regularly losing 2nd and 3rd round at Wimbledon and looking completely out to sea on it, sorry.

Seles was no lock to beat Graf in the other slams either. She has never beaten Graf on a fast surface, so if Graf managed to make a U.S Open final which she wasnt doing during her massive 90-92 slump but began doing again in 93-96 I would favor her over Seles there. Their 92 French Open final was incredibly close, and on clay overall they were a pretty even match throughout their careers when they played. Monica had perfect luck with health and no injuries or illness whatsoever in the early 90s. This would not have lasted forever, in fact before the stabbing she already had her first serious illness which caused her to miss 6 weeks and makes it doubtful already she was going to be at her best for that years French. After the stabbing she had more injuries, and one would be a fool to think each of these were directly related to the stabbing somehow. Graf would have begun beating Seles in other slam finals before Monica would ever beat Graf in a Wimbledon final (that is if she even managed to play Graf in another Wimbledon final ever again).

Seles was fat and depressed for most of the time after the stabbing. Graf on the other hand went from struggling to a second dominace. Don't forget how mental tennis is, especially on the WTA.

Seles wouldn't even have needed to beat Graf on the fast surfaces. It would've made a big enough difference if players like Novotna won matches against Graf. That way Graf would've lost her choking inducing aura very quickly.

I'm not saying that Seles would've won all of Graf's slams or that Graf would've had no chance to win another slam, but their career statistics would been very different.

Details don't even matter and are a matter of opinion anyway, fact is that Graf is definately the most lucky player in the poll options.

dropshot winner
11-12-2009, 04:40 AM
You really dont understand tennis at all if you think a Novotna-like personality would have a bit more confidence when playing Graf on grass in a Wimbledon fianl, based on whether or not Graf was the reigning French Open Champion or reigning overall World #1 or not. I am not even going to bother arguing this futher as you are just making me laugh now.

Don't kid yourself, even a lucky netcord or a broken string in the game at 4-1 in the second could've decided that match.

flying24
11-12-2009, 04:44 AM
Seles was fat and depressed for most of the time after the stabbing. Graf on the other hand went from struggling to a second dominace. Don't forget how mental tennis is, especially on the WTA.

Seles wouldn't even have needed to beat Graf on the fast surfaces. It would've made a big enough difference if players like Novotna won matches against Graf. That way Graf would've lost her choking inducing aura very quickly.

I'm not saying that Seles would've won all of Graf's slams or that Graf would've had no chance to win another slam, but their career statistics would been very different.

You are bringing up Novotna yet again. Talk about desperate straw grasping. Novotna came close to beating Graf in a slam only once after the Seles stabbing, the 93 Wimbledon final. Grafselesfan has already covered Jana. You really dont understand anything about her and her mentality as a player if you think she miracelously starts beating Graf with Seles around. Anyway Jana was no threat whatsoever to Graf on any surface other than grass, and Graf on grass is still most times too good for her even if she doesnt choke at all. Graf has always owned Jana, and the 93 Wimbledon final is one of the only times Jana ever had a chance to choke the match.

I was never going to bring up Novotna as she isnt even that important in the big picture here. However since you insist on bringing her up in your straw grasping attempt at a point I will go ahead and say Jana in fact is a tougher matchup for Seles than she is for Graf. Despite that Jana is older, the early blooming Seles was much closer to her prime already than the very late blooming Novotna in the early 90s. Novotna was nowhere near the player she would be from 93-98 yet. Seles still had a hard time beating her though, having to go 3 sets with her on a very slow hard court in the Australian Open final which is one of Jana's worst surfaces, and probably would have lost if Novotna didnt run out of gas. Their other match also went 3 sets. Then in their post stabbing meetings where Seles was schooling players like Sanchez Vicario and Martinez just as she did pre stabbing she was regularly losing to Novotna, even on clay. So Jana is a bigger problem for Seles than she is or even would have been for Graf.

grafselesfan
11-12-2009, 04:49 AM
Don't kid yourself, even a lucky netcord or a broken string in the game at 4-1 in the second could've decided that match.

and how would a broken string or a lucky netchord in the Wimbledon final between Graf and Novotna have been dicated by whether or not Graf lost in the French Open final to Seles exactly, LOL! Also this is the same Novotna who once lost to Chanda freaking Rubin from 5-0, 40-0 up in the final set in a slam match. I guess this was because of Rubin's aura of dominance of the tour. :rolleyes: This is also the same Novotna who lost from two breaks up in the final set of the U.S Open semis to a slumping out of sorts Hingis. Your reasoning really has no reasoning here.

dropshot winner
11-12-2009, 04:49 AM
You are bringing up Novotna yet again. Talk about desperate straw grasping. Novotna came close to beating Graf in a slam only once after the Seles stabbing, the 93 Wimbledon final. Grafselesfan has already covered Jana. You really dont understand anything about her and her mentality as a player if you think she miracelously starts beating Graf with Seles around. Anyway Jana was no threat whatsoever to Graf on any surface other than grass, and Graf on grass is still most times too good for her. Graf has always owned Jana.

I was never going to bring up Novotna as she isnt even that important in the big picture here. However since you insist on bringing her up in your straw grasping attempt at a point I will go ahead and say Jana in fact is a tougher matchup for Seles than she is for Graf. Despite that Jana is older, the early blooming Seles was much closer to her prime already than the very late blooming Novotna in the early 90s. Novotna was nowhere near the player she would be from 93-98 yet. Seles still had a hard time beating her though, having to go 3 sets with her on a very slow hard court which is one of Jana's worst surfaces, and probably would have lost if Novotna didnt run out of gas. Their other match also went 3 sets. Then in their post stabbing meetings where Seles was schooling players like Sanchez Vicario and Martinez just as she did pre stabbing she was regularly losing to Novotna, even on clay. So Jana is a bigger problem for Seles than she is or even would have been for Graf.

She would never have beaten Graf regularly, but there's no doubt that she could've won the 93 final.

If I told you before the 94 RG that Pierce would make Graf look like an amateur (after winning 1 game the year before at the USO) you would've laughed too. Tennis isn't always predictable.

Fact is Graf was struggling before Seles got stabbed, in this kind of situation, with an additional loss to Seles at the FO (which I think would've been likely), there's a realistic chance that Graf would not have won Wimbledon in 93, which would've further reduced her confidence and aura.

Serendipitous
11-12-2009, 04:50 AM
Roger Federer.

navratilovafan
11-12-2009, 05:08 AM
Jennifer Capriati.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
11-12-2009, 06:19 AM
Mark Philippoussis

GustafsonFanatic
11-12-2009, 06:42 AM
Federer and Nadal got more votes than Graf!

ROFLMAO!!!

lambielspins
11-12-2009, 06:45 AM
Federer and Nadal got more votes than Graf!

ROFLMAO!!!

Why would Graf get many votes? You dont get lucky to be the greatest women player of all time.

dropshot winner
11-12-2009, 06:46 AM
Federer and Nadal got more votes than Graf!

ROFLMAO!!!
As in most polls here, it's mostly a battle of haters.

cuddles26
11-12-2009, 06:50 AM
Why would Graf get many votes? You dont get lucky to be the greatest women player of all time.

Gunther Parche made her the greatest women player of all time. Congrats to him though, he amazingly seems to have fooled most people.

mandy01
11-12-2009, 06:50 AM
The OP needs to find a day job instead of starting clueless treads aobut 'lucky' players :lol:

dropshot winner
11-12-2009, 06:51 AM
Gunther Parche made her the greatest women player of all time. Congrats to him though, he amazingly seems to have fooled most people.
Sad to think that he got exactly what he wanted. It could not have turned out any better, not for him and not for Graf.

cuddles26
11-12-2009, 06:54 AM
Sad to think that he got exactly what he wanted. It could not have turned out any better, not for him and not for Graf.

Exactly. Graf would currently be a second tier all time great overshadowed in the history books and peoples mind by all of Navratilova, Evert, Court, Seles herself, possibly Connolly, soon Serena even. Instead she is now the consensus GOAT to most people, and the stabbing is brushed off as a minor and even forgotten incident as reflected by the generous assumptions most for her when generalizing the what ifs. He achieved exactly what he wanted for both him and Graf. Sometimes the bad guys do win.

tudwell
11-12-2009, 07:05 AM
Why isn't Sampras in this poll? He lucked out playing his personal ball-boy Agassi in all those grand slam finals.

Wolland
11-12-2009, 07:13 AM
I voted for Serena, cause she really is lucky to be playing with all of these mediocre players.

srinrajesh
11-12-2009, 07:15 AM
The same was said about Nadal beating Federer on grass before Wimbledon 2006.
Seles likely hadn't even reached her peak in 93.

definitely agree with that point...if seles had reached her peak around 93-94 she would have racked up a lot of wins over graf which would have given her confidence to beat graf at wimbledon....

LDVTennis
11-12-2009, 07:18 AM
Serena Williams

Three words: Winning while Fat. :razz:

dropshot winner
11-12-2009, 07:19 AM
Serena Williams

Three words: Winning while Fat. :razz:

Save the whales :).

Cup8489
11-12-2009, 07:26 AM
Exactly. Graf would currently be a second tier all time great overshadowed in the history books and peoples mind by all of Navratilova, Evert, Court, Seles herself, possibly Connolly, soon Serena even. Instead she is now the consensus GOAT to most people, and the stabbing is brushed off as a minor and even forgotten incident as reflected by the generous assumptions most for her when generalizing the what ifs. He achieved exactly what he wanted for both him and Graf. Sometimes the bad guys do win.

yeah, and i wonder how much serena would achieve if she had a real rival in her time. its too bad she cant win anything but majors, and it's too bad that when a real rival shows up in Clijsters she freaks out because of her own mistake..

yeah, I think serena just blows, and your suggestion that she's the greatest is just completely lame. Power isn't everything.

fed_rulz
11-12-2009, 07:53 AM
Why isn't Sampras in this poll? He lucked out playing his personal ball-boy Agassi in all those grand slam finals.

I agree; he has nothing to show on clay, yet somehow he is in the GOAT reckoning. He was lucky that he did not have even one contender of the caliber of nadal on one surface he was good at.

Fed, OTOH, is unlucky that he has the possible GOAT of clay play in his era.. and some morons want to call him "lucky"

GustafsonFanatic
11-12-2009, 08:06 AM
Why would Graf get many votes? You dont get lucky to be the greatest women player of all time.

She won 3 Frenchies and 1 Aussie in Monica's absence. Without those 4, she has 18, just like Martina and already her status as female GOAT is questionable.

This is the least we can say. We can also speculate whether Seles would figure her out at US Open or perhaps even Wimby.

GustafsonFanatic
11-12-2009, 08:12 AM
Actually, i am not even discussing whether Graf is the luckiest player of all time.

I am simply asking how Federer and Nadal are luckier than Graf, since they got more votes.

edmondsm
11-12-2009, 08:14 AM
How is Federer winning the poll? He would have multiple calender slams if it wasn't for one dude. That seems kind of unlucky to me. Just shows you how many bitter Samp and Nadal fans there are.

Mr. Tennis
11-12-2009, 09:34 AM
How is Federer winning the poll? He would have multiple calender slams if it wasn't for one dude. That seems kind of unlucky to me. Just shows you how many bitter Samp and Nadal fans there are.

Was he lucky that dude was not around from the beginning? Would he have won as many slams?

Rippy
11-12-2009, 09:59 AM
Was he lucky that dude was not around from the beginning? Would he have won as many slams?

Could say the same about any player surely?

lambielspins
11-12-2009, 10:15 AM
She won 3 Frenchies and 1 Aussie in Monica's absence. Without those 4, she has 18, just like Martina and already her status as female GOAT is questionable.

First of all Graf won only 2 French Opens in Monica's absence. Secondly Monica was not going to win 10 French Opens in a row, or even 6 in a row most likely. Someone was going to have to take a couple of those from her. Considering Hingis (who may well have been a worse matchup for Monica than Graf) underperformed at the French and never won it, that was sure as heck going to be Graf before it was going to be any of Sanchez (great player but Monica's pigeon), Majoli, or Martinez. As for the Australian Open Monica is generally superior there, but in the 94 AO final Graf played one of her best matches ever and would have beaten anyone, including Monica. The other years Graf was injured and didnt play Australia or was ineffective due to injury, so it really doesnt matter in the end that Monica is superior there as Graf wouldnt have many chances anyway.

Mr. Tennis
11-12-2009, 10:28 AM
Could say the same about any player surely?

If Federer was lucky that Nadal was not ound since the beginning then following that line of logic Nadal is the unluckiest player because he has had to face Federer in every grand slam.

mandy01
11-12-2009, 10:37 AM
If Federer was lucky that Nadal was not ound since the beginning then following that line of logic Nadal is the unluckiest player because he has had to face Federer in every grand slam.How is Nadal unlucky if he matches up so well against Federer?
Nadal fans........:roll:

BigServer1
11-12-2009, 10:38 AM
Obviously Federer.

Fwiw, Federer was also the luckiest player of the 15 years before this...

GustafsonFanatic
11-12-2009, 10:40 AM
First of all Graf won only 2 French Opens in Monica's absence. Secondly Monica was not going to win 10 French Opens in a row, or even 6 in a row most likely. Someone was going to have to take a couple of those from her. Considering Hingis (who may well have been a worse matchup for Monica than Graf) underperformed at the French and never won it, that was sure as heck going to be Graf before it was going to be any of Sanchez (great player but Monica's pigeon), Majoli, or Martinez. As for the Australian Open Monica is generally superior there, but in the 94 AO final Graf played one of her best matches ever and would have beaten anyone, including Monica. The other years Graf was injured and didnt play Australia or was ineffective due to injury, so it really doesnt matter in the end that Monica is superior there as Graf wouldnt have many chances anyway.

OK, Monica was around in 96. But, still, Seles didn't have to win everything in sight. (What do you mean by 10 French Opens in a row?) She just needed to prevent Steffi from winning 4-5 slams and already Steffi's GOAT status is in doubt. Thus Graf's luck.

I don't see Graf becoming more self-confident in Seles' presence. But I definitely see Monica taking over more and more surfaces, although she would probably never win Wimby with Graf in her way.

mandy01
11-12-2009, 10:41 AM
This thread=Epic fail.

AndrewD
11-12-2009, 10:43 AM
Andre Agassi - he managed to get away with being juiced and doing rec.drugs.

lambielspins
11-12-2009, 10:44 AM
OK, that 96 FO was with Monica present. But, still, Seles didn't have to win everything in sight. What do you mean by 10 French Opens in a row? She just needed to prevent Steffi from winning 4-5 slams and already Steffi's GOAT status is in doubt. Thus Graf's luck.

I don't see Graf becoming more self-confident in Seles' presence. But I definitely see Monica taking over more and more surfaces, although she would probably never win Wimby with Graf in her way.

This is what I mean to be exact regarding the French Open. Winners in the 90s:

1990- Seles
1991- Seles
1992- Seles
1993- Graf
1994- Sanchez
1995- Graf
1996- Graf
1997- Majoli
1998- Sanchez
1999- Graf

Who was more likely to stop Monica any of those years, Graf or Monica's personal pigeon Sanchez Vicario who was 10x easier an opponent for her than Graf, or the flukish Majoli? Obviously the answer is Graf. Thus unless Monica was going to win 10 French Opens in a row Graf was going to have to still win some of those anyway.

Regarding Australia as I already mentioned Graf only won there once after 93 due to injury (barely played there after 93) and while Monica is normally superior on that surface Graf at the 94 event and especialy in the final was the in the zone and no way she would have lost to anyone in that form, including Monica. If you think her form in the 93 event was comparable think again, Sanchez got 9 games off Graf in 93 and only 2 in 94.

So already the two events Monica was the biggest threat to Steffi you mentioned the reasons Graf would not likely have been impacted not much I have already covered.

r2473
11-12-2009, 10:48 AM
I think Safin gets lucky pretty often.

cork_screw
11-12-2009, 10:55 AM
What is the point of this thread? I don't see an objective. What do you mean by who is the luckiest? Are you 15 years old? Can't you formulate a more specific question to start a thread?
To answer this question as general as it's stated, I don't think any player is lucky in the long run. They might catch a break in a game or in a set, maybe a match or even have a lucky draw in a tournament; but based on a career a person isn't lucky. They put themselves in the position to get those "lucky" chances. Was it luck that Nadal came back from 5 match points to beat Almagro when he was up 40-0? Or when he played Nalbandian who was also serving for the match? Those names you just named; each earned what they achieved through hard work. Is federer lucky because he hasn't gotten an injury yet because he slacks off and doesn't train, even though he trains in Dubai during the off season during the hottest months of the year? Or could it be that Nadal is lucky he didn't have to face Borg in any french finals seeing the different eras, even though he's regarded as the Best clay court player and borg would still be clutching onto a wooden racquet? I think when you get older you'll realize that people do catch lucky breaks, but only those who have the perseverance to work hard and stick to their goals, despite failure. That seperates luck and flukes. A good read about this is a wonderful book called, "The Alchemist."

GustafsonFanatic
11-12-2009, 11:12 AM
This is what I mean to be exact regarding the French Open. Winners in the 90s:

1990- Seles
1991- Seles
1992- Seles
1993- Graf
1994- Sanchez
1995- Graf
1996- Graf
1997- Majoli
1998- Sanchez
1999- Graf

Who was more likely to stop Monica any of those years, Graf or Monica's personal pigeon Sanchez Vicario who was 10x easier an opponent for her than Graf, or the flukish Majoli? Obviously the answer is Graf. Thus unless Monica was going to win 10 French Opens in a row Graf was going to have to still win some of those anyway.

Regarding Australia as I already mentioned Graf only won there once after 93 due to injury (barely played there after 93) and while Monica is normally superior on that surface Graf at the 94 event and especialy in the final was the in the zone and no way she would have lost to anyone in that form, including Monica. If you think her form in the 93 event was comparable think again, Sanchez got 9 games off Graf in 93 and only 2 in 94.

So already the two events Monica was the biggest threat to Steffi you mentioned the reasons Graf would not likely have been impacted not much I have already covered.

Well, we don't know what would have happened in RG 1993 -1999. Draws could have been different. Monica would have won most of them, I guess. Graf could have lost to someone other than Monica. Graf won 4 FOs after the stabbing (more than any other slam). They are a big question mark, considering that Graf last won the French in 1988. If Seles extended her dominance and stole the spotlight from Graf, would Graf care enough to win FO in 1999 at the age of 30?

And she won Wimbledon and USO 93 with an injury, and with Novotna doing that choke at Wimby. If she had gotten spanked at the French by Seles before that, would she have the willpower to win both Wimby and USO?

GustafsonFanatic
11-12-2009, 11:24 AM
Actually, to make up for her luck, Graf could try to come back and win Wimbledon in 2010. You think she could make the finals, if she avoids Williamses and the Belgians?

kishnabe
11-12-2009, 11:56 AM
Nadal since they slowed down the grass at wimbledon!!

Mr. Tennis
11-12-2009, 12:54 PM
How is Nadal unlucky if he matches up so well against Federer?
Nadal fans........:roll:

who would give Nadal a harder time?

Cyan
11-12-2009, 01:07 PM
Fed still winning the poll.. LMAO.

Cyan
11-12-2009, 01:08 PM
Nadal since they slowed down the grass at wimbledon!!

They did that in 2002. So Fed has won his 6 Wimbies on green clay:shock:

Mr. Tennis
11-12-2009, 01:22 PM
Fed still winning the poll.. LMAO.

Does anyone know who fed beat to win his first Wimbledon ?

zagor
11-12-2009, 01:31 PM
Does anyone know who fed beat to win his first Wimbledon ?

He beat Philippoussis(sp?)in straights.

Mr. Tennis
11-12-2009, 01:43 PM
He beat Philippoussis(sp?)in straights.

I only saw Philopusis on that reality show with the cougars vs the *****cats.....was Philopusis any good as a tennis player?

I heard he was sort of a Roddick wannabe.

ninman
11-12-2009, 02:04 PM
How is Nadal unlucky if he matches up so well against Federer?
Nadal fans........:roll:

What's funny is that they can't see the obvious contradiction, they claim that Federer isn't so great because he loses to Nadal a lot, but at the same time they want to make Nadal's achievements so much greater because he had to defeat Federer every time he won a slam.

I'm sorry but you can't have it both ways, and also beating the guy that you match up so well against makes you super, duper lucky not unlucky. Lastly Federer is the unlucky one because every time he had a big match to win, he always had to play Nadal, always.

zagor
11-12-2009, 02:10 PM
I only saw Philopusis on that reality show with the cougars vs the *****cats.....was Philopusis any good as a tennis player?

I heard he was sort of a Roddick wannabe.

Well he was talented,had plenty of power and could play at the net,way more agressive player than Roddick overall.He had some bad luck with injuries and his dedication to tennis was a bit Safin and Nalbandain like.

Some of his most memorable performances are his DC matches and when he blew Sampras off court in '96 AO(was amazing performance from him).Apart from 2003 Wimbledon final he also reached USO final in '98 when he lost to Rafter.

Mustard
11-12-2009, 02:30 PM
ROTFL at anyone who thinks Seles could beat Graf at Wimbledon. After the 92 embarassment Seles probably would have either purposely lost before facing Graf, or wimped out on Wimbledon with a phony late made up excuse like she did in 91, just to avoid facing her there again.

Absolute rubbish. Seles wasn't scared of facing anybody. In 1991 she had shin splints and was told to rest by her doctor before playing again. Yes, she could have probably handled the pulling out of Wimbledon better by calling a press conference to explain her reasons, but we all make mistakes. They said at the time that Monica was talked about more for not playing Wimbledon than Steffi was for winning Wimbledon, and that no doubt annoyed the media and Wimbledon suits, which explains their vicious behavior towards Monica at 1992 Wimbledon.

People can judge the 1992 Wimbledon final's score of 6-2, 6-1 as though Monica was just outclassed and thrashed by Steffi, but I think we all know it wasn't that simple. Monica was not the same that day at all, no fire or ooomph on her shots, likely because of the no grunting she imposed on herself as a result of all the stick she was getting from the British press. On top of this, Steffi dealt very well with all the rain delays in the second set, while Monica didn't.

I'm not saying Monica would have won if she had grunted, but all the variables went for Steffi on the day and she took full advantage. Monica thought at the time that she would have many more chances to win Wimbledon, but 1992 was her last Wimbledon before the stabbing incident and her dad's cancer, both of which changed her in so many ways.

Mr. Tennis
11-12-2009, 02:39 PM
What's funny is that they can't see the obvious contradiction, they claim that Federer isn't so great because he loses to Nadal a lot, but at the same time they want to make Nadal's achievements so much greater because he had to defeat Federer every time he won a slam.

I'm sorry but you can't have it both ways, and also beating the guy that you match up so well against makes you super, duper lucky not unlucky. Lastly Federer is the unlucky one because every time he had a big match to win, he always had to play Nadal, always.

What they are saying is that Nadal and Federer are much better than the rest of the field . However Federer is lucky because Nadal was not around for all of Federers career. On the other hand Federer has been in Nadals face since day one.

Mr. Tennis
11-12-2009, 02:46 PM
I just checked his 97 draw, you're right. His best wins were "Crystal Meth"-Agassi and inconsistent Krajicek.

No wonder McEncroe called him a one-slam wonder at the time.

I believe that he was undefeated against Roger Federer on clay, grass and hardcourts.

2ndServe
11-12-2009, 03:00 PM
Graf no contest. Monica dominated her before she got stabbed.

NamRanger
11-12-2009, 03:05 PM
They did that in 2002. So Fed has won his 6 Wimbies on green clay:shock:



Grass has been progressively slower every year. BBC already did an analysis on this which every Nadal fan continues to vehemently call a total sham for whatever reason (like the BBC cares).

Mr. Tennis
11-12-2009, 03:24 PM
Federer won most of his Wimbledons on slow grass....as a baseliner it helped him as well.

icazares
11-12-2009, 05:49 PM
You are missing Gaston Gaudio. He has to be the winner.

ninman
11-12-2009, 05:51 PM
What they are saying is that Nadal and Federer are much better than the rest of the field . However Federer is lucky because Nadal was not around for all of Federers career. On the other hand Federer has been in Nadals face since day one.

No he hasn't, because for one Nadal wasn't good enough to make non-clay finals for a lot of years, and second, Nadal used to beat Federer every time they played on clay. So I'm sure Nadal was happy to see Federer across the net every time they played, given the dominance he had over him on clay, and that finally spilled over onto non clay surfaces too.

Morrissey
11-12-2009, 05:55 PM
Define lucky.

ninman
11-12-2009, 06:01 PM
Define lucky.

Rafael Nadal.

Morrissey
11-12-2009, 06:05 PM
Rafael Nadal.

OK, so now I will define stupid. = Ninman

LiveForever
11-12-2009, 06:11 PM
I voted Nadal. Not that I believe it but it was the same story in the last thread were many nadal fans voted for Federer saying he only won 4 out of his 15 grand slams without the help of chokers.

mandy01
11-12-2009, 08:57 PM
Fed still winning the poll.. LMAO.
It dosent so anything other than showing most *******s are clueless.
If you noticed most Federer fans didnt bother to vote in a crappy poll like this and the few who did mostly retaliated to the crap *******s came up with in this thread and the previous one.
*******s on the other hand are blissfully ignorant thinking high level success can be achieved by the virtue of 'luck'.
Anyone for that matter who thinks along these lines has most probably never picked up a racquet in his life.

cuddles26
11-13-2009, 01:36 AM
Define lucky.

Luck as in oweing your career to a knife in someone elses back like Stephane Marie Graf.

ninman
11-13-2009, 02:14 AM
OK, so now I will define stupid. = Ninman

That's a terrific comeback, I almost wet myself laughing. Seriously though if you're going to insult someone it's better to spell their name correctly, mine is ninman, not Ninman, can you spot the difference?

grafselesfan
11-13-2009, 03:08 AM
It is digusting Graf and Nadal are even on the poll, let alone receiving 6 votes each. Shame on the 12 total people who voted for one of them.

I had a hard time deciding who to vote for between Crapriati and Federer. Both were super lucky, although Federer is obviously another planet in greatness of his gender than Capriati. Crapriati is a 1 slam winner calibre player at most who through huge doses of luck somehow won 3, while Federer is a top 10 player all time who through huge does of luck is the consensus GOAT to many. So relatively speaking both are similarily lucky.

I laugh that some people think Graf is a luckier 22 slam winner than Capriati a 3 slam winner, considering Graf in her prime could beat Capriati from a wheelchair (and maybe not even in her prime as at age 30 she dished out a bagel and breadstick to Capriati in one of her last tournaments).

Mr. Tennis
11-13-2009, 05:35 AM
It dosent so anything other than showing most *******s are clueless.
If you noticed most Federer fans didnt bother to vote in a crappy poll like this and the few who did mostly retaliated to the crap *******s came up with in this thread and the previous one.
*******s on the other hand are blissfully ignorant thinking high level success can be achieved by the virtue of 'luck'.
Anyone for that matter who thinks along these lines has most probably never picked up a racquet in his life.

Does Federer have any great victorys over players as good as Nadal in a grand slam final? I dont really know anything about Philopousis.....was he as good as Nadal?

Mustard
11-13-2009, 05:37 AM
It is digusting Graf and Nadal are even on the poll, let alone receiving 6 votes each. Shame on the 12 total people who voted for one of them.

Graf was already a legend by the early 1990s anyway, but she was very lucky with the events that happened which enabled her to pick up 22 slams. Some people seem to treat the stabbing and Seles' 27 months out of the game as if Seles was just injured or something.

Mr. Tennis
11-13-2009, 05:38 AM
Well he was talented,had plenty of power and could play at the net,way more agressive player than Roddick overall.He had some bad luck with injuries and his dedication to tennis was a bit Safin and Nalbandain like.

Some of his most memorable performances are his DC matches and when he blew Sampras off court in '96 AO(was amazing performance from him).Apart from 2003 Wimbledon final he also reached USO final in '98 when he lost to Rafter.

oops sorry...I missed this......Im sorry I really dont know much about Philopousis. If he beat Sampras he must have been pretty good. I am sure that was a great win for Roger.

But was Philopusis as good as Nadal?

zagor
11-13-2009, 05:50 AM
oops sorry...I missed this......Im sorry I really dont know much about Philopousis. If he beat Sampras he must have been pretty good. I am sure that was a great win for Roger.

But was Philopusis as good as Nadal?

No problem.And no he isn't nearly as good as Nadal,he's a very good talented player who had some memorable performances and reached 2 slam finals but Nadal's a tennis legend,there's no comparison.

mandy01
11-13-2009, 05:50 AM
oops sorry...I missed this......Im sorry I really dont know much about Philopousis. If he beat Sampras he must have been pretty good. I am sure that was a great win for Roger.

But was Philopusis as good as Nadal?
Nadal won his first slam against an even weaker opponent in the final if thats the logic you're going to use..
Really you have no point at all..

mandy01
11-13-2009, 05:52 AM
Does Federer have any great victorys over players as good as Nadal in a grand slam final? I dont really know anything about Philopousis.....was he as good as Nadal?So a player who you dont deem to be worthy plays Fed and he gets lucky?
Like I said..you Nadal fans REALLY have no clue about tennis most of the times..
Just fanboys/fangirls who cant look beyond their boy.

Mr. Tennis
11-13-2009, 06:03 AM
So a player who you dont deem to be worthy plays Fed and he gets lucky?
Like I said..you Nadal fans REALLY have no clue about tennis most of the times..
Just fanboys/fangirls who cant look beyond their boy.

HUh??? when did I say that? I never said federer got lucky?:confused:

Mr. Tennis
11-13-2009, 06:07 AM
Nadal won his first slam against an even weaker opponent in the final if thats the logic you're going to use..
Really you have no point at all..

I simply asked how good was Philopusis because i dont know anything about him? What are you talking about?

I dont think Federer got lucky but Nadal had to face Federer in every single Grand Slam he was in....what are you talking about?:confused:

grafselesfan
11-13-2009, 06:50 AM
Graf was already a legend by the early 1990s anyway, but she was very lucky with the events that happened which enabled her to pick up 22 slams. Some people seem to treat the stabbing and Seles' 27 months out of the game as if Seles was just injured or something.

It is possible Graf was lucky but in no way could she be the luckiest. Like I said there is no way Graf was lucker to win 22 slams than Capriati 3 slams or even Kuznetsova 2 slams, given that those 2 women are complete jokes.

mandy01
11-13-2009, 06:50 AM
I simply asked how good was Philopusis because i dont know anything about him? What are you talking about?

I dont think Federer got lucky but Nadal had to face Federer in every single Grand Slam he was in....what are you talking about?:confused:You vote for him and BS here and you say you never called Federer lucky?
LOOOOOOL
Infact if Fed is lucky then Nadal is even luckier facing a lucky chump in the finals.The fact that Federer is ALSO a good match-up for him makes him many a times more lucky than it makes Fed using your logic.

Mr. Tennis
11-13-2009, 07:28 AM
Mandy...Im sorry I dont understand what you are talking about. Its really not very clear....why are you calling Federer a "Lucky chump"? Was that a typo for Champ? Im sorry but wtf are you saying?:confused:

Furthermore I do not think Fed was lucky at all and If somehow the poll shows that I voted that he was lucky thats a mistake because I feel that federer is the greatest of all time.

I am a new user and I may have accidentally voted the wrong way.

jrepac
11-13-2009, 08:14 AM
I just checked his 97 draw, you're right. His best wins were "Crystal Meth"-Agassi and inconsistent Krajicek.

No wonder McEncroe called him a one-slam wonder at the time.

But, he came back and won the next year, and made 2 wimby finals. Not a one shot wonder, by any measure.

jrepac
11-13-2009, 08:18 AM
the French flukes...

Majoli
Gaudio
Myskina


I vote for Myskina....

mandy01
11-13-2009, 09:00 AM
[delete post..damn this thread is just super-fail.

Mr. Tennis
11-13-2009, 11:09 AM
But, he came back and won the next year, and made 2 wimby finals. Not a one shot wonder, by any measure.

and he had Feds number.

tacou
11-13-2009, 01:23 PM
fed obviously he's lucky enough to be the most talented player in the history of tennis

bangchu
11-13-2009, 01:23 PM
Voted for Graf.

P_Agony
11-13-2009, 01:54 PM
Luck usually goes with the top guys, so I guess Federer and Nadal had their fair share of luck.

GustafsonFanatic
11-13-2009, 02:05 PM
Where is the linesperson thread :sad:

klementine79
11-14-2009, 11:56 AM
Ivanovic or Jankovic...

Henin retires and they shoot-up to #1????

That's not just luck it's dumb-luck.

srinrajesh
11-14-2009, 11:47 PM
Luckiest in male is federer
female it is Graf and serena following her ..