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Oldracquet27
11-12-2009, 04:41 PM
I have this usta FLEX match scheduled with this lady the other night. I knew she was drama since she did not know if she was home or not, (sign of not being responsible about the schedule), she asked me then where we could play, i said in these park courts near my house, ( they are not new, but they are not cracked , and the net was good ).

She had asked me to move the match early in the morning when i called to confirm because she had an appointment and might be late for that , yada , yada, etc. I said that it was going to be tough for me, since i had already asked my babysitter to come, i am very organized about my agenda , since for me playing tennis involve my kids, my husband and the babysitter!. She said ok let's play then as planned.

As soon as she arrived to the courts she put all the excuses: " Oh my god, look at these courts!" she said ( the courts are perfect, i repeat, she is used to play in a nice countryclub, that is the reason why she was so bizarre), "it isn't a proshop here either?" and i asked why do you need a pro shop? . She also said that the net was kind of low in the middle, it was perfectly fine!. She asked to reschedule after both of us being there in the court!!!!. I said , listen , go to your apointment, (cause i thought that was the reason why she obviously did not want to play the match )and i don't think we are going to play ever this match, cause i will register a default in my favor. She said she will talk to the coordinator ( which i don't care). WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN THIS CASE?? i THINK SHE WAS BIZARRE, IRRATIONAL AND RIDICULOUS ABOUT THE COURTS, THOSE COURTS ARE NOT IN A COUNTRY CLUB , BUT THEY ARE PERFECT TO PLAY IN.

beernutz
11-12-2009, 05:36 PM
She is not worth wasting your time on imo.

Also paragraphs were invented for a reason.

Ripper014
11-12-2009, 06:08 PM
If it is that important to her... have her arrange the court on her dime and have her let you know where you need to be and when.

I know if I am going to be playing in a league it is more about playing than winning. But if she could not get it scheduled quickly I would register the default.

JavierLW
11-12-2009, 07:17 PM
I have this usta FLEX match scheduled with this lady the other night. I knew she was drama since she did not know if she was home or not, (sign of not being responsible about the schedule), she asked me then where we could play, i said in these park courts near my house, ( they are not new, but they are not cracked , and the net was good ).

She had asked me to move the match early in the morning when i called to confirm because she had an appointment and might be late for that , yada , yada, etc. I said that it was going to be tough for me, since i had already asked my babysitter to come, i am very organized about my agenda , since for me playing tennis involve my kids, my husband and the babysitter!. She said ok let's play then as planned.

As soon as she arrived to the courts she put all the excuses: " Oh my god, look at these courts!" she said ( the courts are perfect, i repeat, she is used to play in a nice countryclub, that is the reason why she was so bizarre), "it isn't a proshop here either?" and i asked why do you need a pro shop? . She also said that the net was kind of low in the middle, it was perfectly fine!. She asked to reschedule after both of us being there in the court!!!!. I said , listen , go to your apointment, (cause i thought that was the reason why she obviously did not want to play the match )and i don't think we are going to play ever this match, cause i will register a default in my favor. She said she will talk to the coordinator ( which i don't care). WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN THIS CASE?? i THINK SHE WAS BIZARRE, IRRATIONAL AND RIDICULOUS ABOUT THE COURTS, THOSE COURTS ARE NOT IN A COUNTRY CLUB , BUT THEY ARE PERFECT TO PLAY IN.

I love public courts! If I had someone do that, Id just flat out tell them too bad and that they are crazy and then Id laugh at them for being so silly.

It's too bad it has to be that way. Flex League is probably great for people who REALLY WANT TO PLAY but just cant commit to a specific time, but it probably invites the drama queen high maintenance picky people as well.

cork_screw
11-12-2009, 07:44 PM
That is a forfeit. You seem very nice and accomodating. This woman is just trying to take advantage of you. She is making excuses. People like your partner never get anywhere in life.

Oldracquet27
11-12-2009, 07:53 PM
If it is that important to her... have her arrange the court on her dime and have her let you know where you need to be and when.

I know if I am going to be playing in a league it is more about playing than winning. But if she could not get it scheduled quickly I would register the default.

Yes, for me playing is why we register for. But because of her attitude i don't want to waste my time and reschedule after she messed up with my time and family time already. I think that she just deserves that i register a default which i definitely will do.

Jim A
11-12-2009, 11:44 PM
I love playing on, within reason, the most average to below average courts I can find.

My "home" court, because its right across the street from the house has one court whose net has a broken net strap, no wind screens etc

After doing drills on that court, playing on a normal public court is like a luxury, I would never play a match there mind you out of fairness but its great for prep

slice bh compliment
11-13-2009, 01:47 AM
You have a husband? And a child? And a babysitter?
She is envious of you, so she got passive-aggressive on you about the (gasp!) lack of a pro shop.

She probably had forgotten her water or a pair of socks.
What an ***.

Anyway, why do you want to win by default? Why not just reschedule for a time that works for both players? Isn't that what FLEXtennis is all about?

Get the tennis in! Offer to play at her club if that's what it'll take. Kick her butt in front of her pro shop!

chalkflewup
11-13-2009, 02:41 AM
Play her on her court. Don't say a word. Just stuff her and leave.

raiden031
11-13-2009, 03:40 AM
Anyway, why do you want to win by default? Why not just reschedule for a time that works for both players? Isn't that what FLEXtennis is all about?


Out of principle. She had to waste her time arranging her schedule and driving to a court only to find the opponent refuse to play. If someone treated me like that I wouldn't re-arrange the match with them.

And this is coming from someone who would prefer not to default or penalize someone for showing up late to a USTA match. There is just a line that needs to be drawn somewhere.

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-13-2009, 03:52 AM
I wouldnt waste time with that upper crustness. It wouldnt be fun and she would probably cheat. You already drove out there once. Then she might say its too hot, humid, windy etc.

Topaz
11-13-2009, 05:30 AM
Yes, for me playing is why we register for. But because of her attitude i don't want to waste my time and reschedule after she messed up with my time and family time already. I think that she just deserves that i register a default which i definitely will do.

I think if you decide to not play her again, you are well within your rights...she was very disrespectful of your time and efforts.



Get the tennis in! Offer to play at her club if that's what it'll take. Kick her butt in front of her pro shop!

But, if you *do* end up playing here again...then do this! :)

goober
11-13-2009, 05:52 AM
If someone expects country club amenities, they should not be playing FLEX league. I have had to play on all manner of courts including high school courts with cracks and no dividers between courts. Just stick to your country club and play interclub matches so you won't have to mingle with commonfolk.

I would take the default, because it would not be fun to play someone like her.

slice bh compliment
11-13-2009, 06:08 AM
^Things that you do not hear in men's tennis for $200 please, Alex.^
We men are simple and we play where we're told.

Yeah, now, I do see raiden's point and the OP's....but for the reasons listed above, I'd play her and not get into a row with her or the coordinator over a contested default.
EDIT:
[Sure, maybe get into it if she's abusive during a match....if the linecalls were atrocious, if she threw a racquet and endangered you or a spectator, but not over a weird thing like this. Worst case, just have the coordinator come out and approve your home court. Then you're on firm ground. But for a default that only one person thinks is a default, I think it's more complex.]

Think of the coordinator, having to hear both sides of this mess. Just play. It's a game. Play it. There's no money or pro circuit points attached to this. And even if there were ... play.

goober
11-13-2009, 06:23 AM
Just play. It's a game. Play it. There's no money or pro circuit points attached to this. And even if there were ... play.


You are right it is just a game. You play for fun. It would not be fun to play someone like that. So why should you feel obligated to play her? I don't understand your money point. Do you not avoid playing with certain players for whatever reason even if there is no money involved in your matches? Everybody does!

In general I would say "just play" in most cases. But she went over the line by refusing to play you on your home court after agreeing to play you there and after you made significant changes in scheduling, planning a babysitter, ect. Not having a pro shop is not a legitimate excuse.

JavierLW
11-13-2009, 07:31 AM
Think of the coordinator, having to hear both sides of this mess. Just play. It's a game. Play it. There's no money or pro circuit points attached to this. And even if there were ... play.

It's always amazing when people use this tired old argument that somehow because the match isnt televised that somehow it's not important....

So let me get this straight. Watching a bunch of people playing on TV that you probably have no personal involvement is somehow "important" to you?

But rearranging your entire schedule, driving across down, paying for your own gas money, spending up to 2 hours or so of your day is "not important" to you?

It's a really silly argument when you think about it.

I doubt the coordinator will have too much of a dilemma about this one. The lady actually showed up to play after arrangements were made and then SHE refused to play, it's pretty cut and dry....

If there is anything flex league SHOULDNT be about, it shouldnt be about jerking around your opponent because that's definately the fear with a lot of us when it comes to something like that....

dbusiness
11-13-2009, 07:43 AM
Both of you are playing in a USTA Flex League event and those
rules would need to be followed.

I interrupt rule 3 as meaning since this was your Home match
that as long as the court was in good condition, the net could be adjusted
to proper height and if playing at night there was proper lighting then it's acceptable.

Flex league seems to be more about the spirit of tennis and playing then anything else.

If your opponent was offering to cover your fee and you didn't mind traveling to some more accomodating courts that would need to be a mutual decision.

sureshs
11-13-2009, 07:45 AM
We need to see pics of the court. Otherwise, we are only getting one side of the story.

I also think if you invite someone over to your courts, you have to find him/her a bathroom nearby. By nearby, I don't mean the Starbucks a mile away. If not, you should make it clear whether he/she can use your bathroom or not.

For all I know, her request for a "pro shop" may have been a way to hide the fact that she needed to go.

Oldracquet27
11-13-2009, 07:53 AM
You have a husband? And a child? And a babysitter?
She is envious of you, so she got passive-aggressive on you about the (gasp!) lack of a pro shop.

She probably had forgotten her water or a pair of socks.
What an ***.

Anyway, why do you want to win by default? Why not just reschedule for a time that works for both players? Isn't that what FLEXtennis is all about?

Get the tennis in! Offer to play at her club if that's what it'll take. Kick her butt in front of her pro shop!


I register here to play indeed, but because of her attitude i don't want to see her face anymore in a million years. Do you understand? Players like her are the ones who register without being sure if they want to play or not. And those courts, where perfect, not cracked, just some light stains. Net was perfect hight and condition. The girl plays in a nice country club.... I love to play in nice places too, but if the conditions are ok in a park i can play there too.

Oldracquet27
11-13-2009, 07:55 AM
Out of principle. She had to waste her time arranging her schedule and driving to a court only to find the opponent refuse to play. If someone treated me like that I wouldn't re-arrange the match with them.

And this is coming from someone who would prefer not to default or penalize someone for showing up late to a USTA match. There is just a line that needs to be drawn somewhere.

You got it right!. All of us in this message boards are tennis nuts, we WANT to PLAY TENNIS, not register a stupid win by default. I just feel that is the only thing i can do to feel not so bad about how disrespecful and irrational she was.

JavierLW
11-13-2009, 07:57 AM
We need to see pics of the court. Otherwise, we are only getting one side of the story.

I also think if you invite someone over to your courts, you have to find him/her a bathroom nearby. By nearby, I don't mean the Starbucks a mile away. If not, you should make it clear whether he/she can use your bathroom or not.

For all I know, her request for a "pro shop" may have been a way to hide the fact that she needed to go.

Ya, Im not sure about that. USTA League's are not just for club players, they are for players who tend to frequent the public courts as well.

I belong to a club myself and I know it's aweome there are bathrooms there (and showers, and a locker room, and exercise equipment, etc.....). But I understand that a lot of the people there take that for granted.

I grew up playing on public courts, and it's just understood that you make sure you've went to the bathroom before you go play, we never even imagine that there is going to be one anywhere near by.

I think in USTA League it's pretty common there will be something there though. (it's usually at a club, or a park with bathrooms, or a high school)

My team plays on these courts that are part of a High School but nowhere near the High School and we have a nice outhouse up there. I know a lot of the country club people hate playing us because of our lack of "facilitys" but too bad.

But this Flex League thing is different, by definition you could be playing pretty much anywhere as long as there is a workable court.

Really though I expect unless it's one of those dumb timed matches the match is going to take some random amount of time anyway so I dont necessarily know when it's going to finish.

So if someone gets there and they need to go, I think it's fair to just let them go wherever they need to, and take care of their business and just start late. (especially if you've already went thru the trouble of rearranging your whole schedule to get to that point)

JavierLW
11-13-2009, 08:01 AM
I love playing on, within reason, the most average to below average courts I can find.

My "home" court, because its right across the street from the house has one court whose net has a broken net strap, no wind screens etc

After doing drills on that court, playing on a normal public court is like a luxury, I would never play a match there mind you out of fairness but its great for prep

You should buy a net strap, they are less then $10 usually. I carry one in my bag for just such an occasion.

Not having windscreens isnt a huge deal, where I play State League the High School doesnt put up windscreens in some years because the High School team apparently likes it that way. (and it's one of the windiest places to play in)

Just because some spoiled players are not used to it, doesnt mean it's not "fair", everyone has to deal with the same conditions. (as long as the court and the net are in good condition)

I agree with you about practicing in tough conditions. I practice my serve a lot in a place that is really hard to play at, and it really helps a lot.

SlapChop
11-13-2009, 08:54 AM
I would never drive out and meet someone to play a match and leave without playing. I would be very mad if someone did this. What a waste of time.

LuckyR
11-13-2009, 09:27 AM
I have this usta FLEX match scheduled with this lady the other night. I knew she was drama since she did not know if she was home or not, (sign of not being responsible about the schedule), she asked me then where we could play, i said in these park courts near my house, ( they are not new, but they are not cracked , and the net was good ).

She had asked me to move the match early in the morning when i called to confirm because she had an appointment and might be late for that , yada , yada, etc. I said that it was going to be tough for me, since i had already asked my babysitter to come, i am very organized about my agenda , since for me playing tennis involve my kids, my husband and the babysitter!. She said ok let's play then as planned.

As soon as she arrived to the courts she put all the excuses: " Oh my god, look at these courts!" she said ( the courts are perfect, i repeat, she is used to play in a nice countryclub, that is the reason why she was so bizarre), "it isn't a proshop here either?" and i asked why do you need a pro shop? . She also said that the net was kind of low in the middle, it was perfectly fine!. She asked to reschedule after both of us being there in the court!!!!. I said , listen , go to your apointment, (cause i thought that was the reason why she obviously did not want to play the match )and i don't think we are going to play ever this match, cause i will register a default in my favor. She said she will talk to the coordinator ( which i don't care). WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN THIS CASE?? i THINK SHE WAS BIZARRE, IRRATIONAL AND RIDICULOUS ABOUT THE COURTS, THOSE COURTS ARE NOT IN A COUNTRY CLUB , BUT THEY ARE PERFECT TO PLAY IN.


While all of the posts on court issues are correct, as an aside, my guess is this individual is likely a very poor tennis player, skill-wise. We have all run into the excuse makers and they are usually terrible players.

grimmbomb21
11-13-2009, 09:46 AM
My opinion is that the op is right on. Default and move on to the next opponent. It sounds pretty obvious the lady didn't want to play that day and needed an excuse. No need to reschedule for a disrespectful snob such as her.

Ripper014
11-13-2009, 10:19 AM
While all of the posts on court issues are correct, as an aside, my guess is this individual is likely a very poor tennis player, skill-wise. We have all run into the excuse makers and they are usually terrible players.

True but why join a league... at some point you are going to have to play.

slice bh compliment
11-13-2009, 10:35 AM
It's always amazing when people use this tired old argument that somehow because the match isnt televised that somehow it's not important....

So let me get this straight. Watching a bunch of people playing on TV that you probably have no personal involvement is somehow "important" to you?.......

Sorry that you are amazed! Sorry if it's a tired argument. For me, it's not even an argument, to be honest.

There is a chance you might have misread me.

When did I say anything about television? When did I say it wasn't important? It is important (for us tennis nuts to get our tennis in!)

My point, (and I probably did not do a good enough job expressing it) is that a default is not the best way to end something like this .... and there's really no benefit to winning by default (the way there could be in a tournament that is for ranking points or money). But, naturally it's important -- it is recreational tennis, the most popular form of tennis played worldwide.

What I think is important is the concept of getting to actually win on the court without some BS technicality like the abandonment of a match. What I feel is less than important or of lesser value is to have a 'win' on paper, by default avec asterisk.

Again, it's rec tennis, which is important, and .... exactly why the tennis or the dealing should not be unpleasant. The clubby lady is clearly the unpleasant one...who does not respect the game or the time of others.

I'm just advocating taking the high road and beating her on the tennis court rather than negotiating a default.

Also, selfishly, I am on record with the anti-default position because I would like to look forward to hearing about the OP winning the match without the involvement of a league coordinator, whose thankless job is probably either unpaid or underpaid anyway.

As a freshman, I remember a college match against a team my team had NEVER beaten. I was playing a junior with a nat'l ranking. I got up a break...to a 4-1 lead and the guy pulled a calf muscle while running for a dropvolley. I was going to win that set. Maybe the whole match! I wanted it badly. My whole team did. But my opponent retired at 1-4. Was it really a win for me? Cheap. My teammates were thrilled at the good start, but it wasn't really a win, y'know?

Anyway, that's where I'm coming from. Sorry if you guys think that's bad.

Ripper014
11-13-2009, 11:17 AM
Sorry that you are amazed! Sorry if it's a tired argument. For me, it's not even an argument, to be honest.

There is a chance you might have misread me.

When did I say anything about television? When did I say it wasn't important? It is important (for us tennis nuts to get our tennis in!)

My point, (and I probably did not do a good enough job expressing it) is that a default is not the best way to end something like this .... and there's really no benefit to winning by default (the way there could be in a tournament that is for ranking points or money). But, naturally it's important -- it is recreational tennis, the most popular form of tennis played worldwide.

What I think is important is the concept of getting to actually win on the court without some BS technicality like the abandonment of a match. What I feel is less than important or of lesser value is to have a 'win' on paper, by default avec asterisk.

Again, it's rec tennis, which is important, and .... exactly why the tennis or the dealing should not be unpleasant. The clubby lady is clearly the unpleasant one...who does not respect the game or the time of others.

I'm just advocating taking the high road and beating her on the tennis court rather than negotiating a default.

Also, selfishly, I am on record with the anti-default position because I would like to look forward to hearing about the OP winning the match without the involvement of a league coordinator, whose thankless job is probably either unpaid or underpaid anyway.

As a freshman, I remember a college match against a team my team had NEVER beaten. I was playing a junior with a nat'l ranking. I got up a break...to a 4-1 lead and the guy pulled a calf muscle while running for a dropvolley. I was going to win that set. Maybe the whole match! I wanted it badly. My whole team did. But my opponent retired at 1-4. Was it really a win for me? Cheap. My teammates were thrilled at the good start, but it wasn't really a win, y'know?

Anyway, that's where I'm coming from. Sorry if you guys think that's bad.

Nope I totally agree with your assessment, I would much rather play than take a walkover. And you would think especially with league matches considering there are so few of them in a season.

Ripper014
11-13-2009, 11:19 AM
Sorry that you are amazed! Sorry if it's a tired argument. For me, it's not even an argument, to be honest.

There is a chance you might have misread me.

When did I say anything about television? When did I say it wasn't important? It is important (for us tennis nuts to get our tennis in!)

My point, (and I probably did not do a good enough job expressing it) is that a default is not the best way to end something like this .... and there's really no benefit to winning by default (the way there could be in a tournament that is for ranking points or money). But, naturally it's important -- it is recreational tennis, the most popular form of tennis played worldwide.

What I think is important is the concept of getting to actually win on the court without some BS technicality like the abandonment of a match. What I feel is less than important or of lesser value is to have a 'win' on paper, by default avec asterisk.

Again, it's rec tennis, which is important, and .... exactly why the tennis or the dealing should not be unpleasant. The clubby lady is clearly the unpleasant one...who does not respect the game or the time of others.

I'm just advocating taking the high road and beating her on the tennis court rather than negotiating a default.

Also, selfishly, I am on record with the anti-default position because I would like to look forward to hearing about the OP winning the match without the involvement of a league coordinator, whose thankless job is probably either unpaid or underpaid anyway.

As a freshman, I remember a college match against a team my team had NEVER beaten. I was playing a junior with a nat'l ranking. I got up a break...to a 4-1 lead and the guy pulled a calf muscle while running for a dropvolley. I was going to win that set. Maybe the whole match! I wanted it badly. My whole team did. But my opponent retired at 1-4. Was it really a win for me? Cheap. My teammates were thrilled at the good start, but it wasn't really a win, y'know?

Anyway, that's where I'm coming from. Sorry if you guys think that's bad.

Nope I totally agree with your assessment, I would much rather play than take a walkover. And you would think especially with league matches considering there are so few of them in a season.

But I do agree the woman was rude... which is why I would let her set up the match on her terms... (not ideal) but I just want to play. Plus how much better would it be to beat her on her terms.

kylebarendrick
11-13-2009, 11:35 AM
For flex league I agree it is worth a shot to let the opponent setup the reschedule. If you can play the match that way then fine. If not, I'd just leave the match unplayed. The only way I'd consider defaulting her would be if you can't schedule a match and it would actually affect who wins the league.

Defaulting somone over a match that doesn't matter (even if justified) can create bad blood that may come back at you in the future.

Tennisman912
11-13-2009, 11:37 AM
Oldracquet27,

I would have said something like “You certainly don’t have to play if you don’t want to. If you don’t want to stick to the match schedule you agreed to, you can just default your match. My time is valuable to me and this was a match previously agreed upon. If you have a problem with the courts or environment and we are scheduled for future matches, we can feel free to schedule our next scheduled match at a venue you are more comfortable in. So do you want to play or default? It is up to you.”

Kill them with kindness but don’t’ give in. Never placate to those used to getting their own way. By rescheduling you are training her it is ok to behave this way and she will continue to do so to you and others. Best of luck in the future.

TM

LuckyR
11-13-2009, 11:39 AM
True but why join a league... at some point you are going to have to play.

I know, weird isn't it?

Ripper014
11-13-2009, 11:45 AM
Oldracquet27,

I would have said something like ďYou certainly donít have to play if you donít want to. If you donít want to stick to the match schedule you agreed to, you can just default your match. My time is valuable to me and this was a match previously agreed upon. If you have a problem with the courts or environment and we are scheduled for future matches, we can feel free to schedule our next scheduled match at a venue you are more comfortable in. So do you want to play or default? It is up to you.Ē

Kill them with kindness but donítí give in. Never placate to those used to getting their own way. By rescheduling you are training her it is ok to behave this way and she will continue to do so to you and others. Best of luck in the future.

TM

I cannot argue with this line of thought... and I agree with it, but the bottom-line is that I would like to play the match. And beating your ***** would give me great pleasure.

JavierLW
11-13-2009, 12:18 PM
Sorry that you are amazed! Sorry if it's a tired argument. For me, it's not even an argument, to be honest.

There is a chance you might have misread me.

.

If I misread you it's because you went on to rant about how it's not for ranking points, isnt on the pro circuit, etc....

It's probably just a case of you tacking thoughts onto the issue to make it sound good on your part, but it doesn't make sense.

If it's not so important then that's all the reason to just accept the default.

I agree that defaults suck and winning the match is better, but at some point you need to draw the line and not bend over backwards to accommodate someone who CLEARLY could care less about you and will walk all over you if you let them.

If there is any argument to me it's where that line is. I think this lady went way over that line since she actually showed up and then wouldn't play for some silly meaningless excuse.

If she calls and says she cant make it and you have to rearrange your whole entire schedule (which the OP did already), then I think that's worth doing to play the match and not have a default.

But the OP already did that, she actually showed up, wasted her time, and the person refused to play.

Perhaps you have TONS of free time to waste, but not everyone does. (obviously they dont because they are in a FLEX league!!!!!) I say she wasted my time once, Im not going to give her the luxury of wasting my time again.

(and it's not like I feel all that great about winning by default but that's the least they can do to punish someone like this...)

slice bh compliment
11-13-2009, 01:44 PM
That's the 'rant' that offended you Javier? Hmmm. Okay. Tough crowd! Sorry for the vitriol, hahha. As for my adding my own thoughts to make it sound good on my part, not making sense, etc....I don't think I added anything or sounded particularly good (or tried to sound good). Not my intention. Sorry it tripped your trigger.

[quote=goober;4104296]You are right it is just a game. You play for fun. It would not be fun to play someone like that. So why should you feel obligated to play her? I don't understand your money point. Do you not avoid playing with certain players for whatever reason even if there is no money involved in your matches? ....

Correct. I do not avoid playing anyone if it can work with my schedule. I play with people who are at a lower level sometimes. I say yes to people who are younger and better than me, too -- if I am the person they feel would be good practice -- then good for me.

Full disclosure: I do not play in a FLEX league, but I know what it is. I play for fun only nowadays. Usually, it's either just drilling or independently scheduled practice matches. Twice or 3x a yr, I get invited to play in a pro-am. I usually make it work. I like those. They are fun.

In a pro-am two yrs ago, I had a good opponent (teaching pro/former college player) who thought the tournament was over after he and his partner had won their flight. He was off to the snack bar and the showers, instead of on the court playing my partner and me (we had won our flight, so it was the men's final). They could not find the guy, so they gave us the wine (the prize). 15 minutes later, someone saw him coming out of the lockerroom. He was really embarrassed and very sorry. We played the final. We got up 3-0 in about five minutes because the teaching pro and his partner were not on their "A" game (probably due to the awkwardness of the situation) ... then the match got close and we ended up winning 8-5 (it was an 8 game pro set format).

I think being reasonable and forgiving generally gets you more tennis. That's what my 'rant' is all about. That's all I was saying.

I realize neither of my situations were about money or ranking points (well, the college one was, in a way, I guess). And neither of them involved a jerk like the OP's clubby lady, but in either case, winning by default did not have any positive effect like it might on the pro level. Again, that's all I'm saying.

More full disclosure: I need to empathize with the OP. I've never had to get a babysitter for tennis. My wife's a stay-at-home mom, so while I do not think of myself as a guy with a ton of free time, I guess in the grand scheme of things, maybe I actually am that guy even though I feel pretty busy generally.

Honestly, I do not know how angry I would have been if I'd gotten a sitter and gotten stiffed on a match. Maybe I'd demand a default, too, but from where I am sitting, no thanks. I'd like to think I would have just hit some serves for a half-hour, hit with the wall for ten minutes, stretched it out, then gone and done a few errands before relieving the sitter. Or maybe I'd be industrious enough to go get the sitter and have her watch one kid while I fed balls to the other -- all at the same park. There are plenty of things to do with 'wasted' time...which can allow for forgiveness and compassion to prevail.

Well happy tennis, gang. Peace.

Annika
11-13-2009, 04:28 PM
Being a public court person myself, I know many a times my courts are not AS perfectly kept as country club courts. But with a little measuring and sweeping, they're fine. No big deal to me.

If she should want to reschedule, have her find the courts. We all want to hear about her well she plays now. :shock:

Oldracquet27
11-13-2009, 04:30 PM
It is so nice to know i can vent my fustration with you all, thanks for all your comments. But i got to say again, i want to play tennis of course, but as someone said before if i accept to reschedule after what she did , I am telling her that is okey the way she behaved, and she will go for life doing the same thing to others. I am sorry to tell you all my fellow tennis friends that " i have a plan" " a vengful plan ". She sent me an email today asking to reschedule, not apologies or anything. I will say yes, will set a date and i will make sure i will leave her waiting for me in the court with her outfit on and all!.. Please do not judge me, this is something i have never done, i don't think i would even think about something like that, but this girl treated me like s....t.

JavierLW
11-13-2009, 05:00 PM
It is so nice to know i can vent my fustration with you all, thanks for all your comments. But i got to say again, i want to play tennis of course, but as someone said before if i accept to reschedule after what she did , I am telling her that is okey the way she behaved, and she will go for life doing the same thing to others. I am sorry to tell you all my fellow tennis friends that " i have a plan" " a vengful plan ". She sent me an email today asking to reschedule, not apologies or anything. I will say yes, will set a date and i will make sure i will leave her waiting for me in the court with her outfit on and all!.. Please do not judge me, this is something i have never done, i don't think i would even think about something like that, but this girl treated me like s....t.

I know what you mean.

I dont think it's even a matter of whether it's ill to default her or not at that point, it's just a matter of not having your time further wasted with this person.

JavierLW
11-13-2009, 05:07 PM
That's the 'rant' that offended you Javier? Hmmm. Okay. Tough crowd! Sorry for the vitriol, hahha. As for my adding my own thoughts to make it sound good on my part, not making sense, etc....I don't think I added anything or sounded particularly good (or tried to sound good). Not my intention. Sorry it tripped your trigger.



Correct. I do not avoid playing anyone if it can work with my schedule. I play with people who are at a lower level sometimes. I say yes to people who are younger and better than me, too -- if I am the person they feel would be good practice -- then good for me.

Full disclosure: I do not play in a FLEX league, but I know what it is. I play for fun only nowadays. Usually, it's either just drilling or independently scheduled practice matches. Twice or 3x a yr, I get invited to play in a pro-am. I usually make it work. I like those. They are fun.

In a pro-am two yrs ago, I had a good opponent (teaching pro/former college player) who thought the tournament was over after he and his partner had won their flight. He was off to the snack bar and the showers, instead of on the court playing my partner and me (we had won our flight, so it was the men's final). They could not find the guy, so they gave us the wine (the prize). 15 minutes later, someone saw him coming out of the lockerroom. He was really embarrassed and very sorry. We played the final. We got up 3-0 in about five minutes because the teaching pro and his partner were not on their "A" game (probably due to the awkwardness of the situation) ... then the match got close and we ended up winning 8-5 (it was an 8 game pro set format).

I think being reasonable and forgiving generally gets you more tennis. That's what my 'rant' is all about. That's all I was saying.

I realize neither of my situations were about money or ranking points (well, the college one was, in a way, I guess). And neither of them involved a jerk like the OP's clubby lady, but in either case, winning by default did not have any positive effect like it might on the pro level. Again, that's all I'm saying.

More full disclosure: I need to empathize with the OP. I've never had to get a babysitter for tennis. My wife's a stay-at-home mom, so while I do not think of myself as a guy with a ton of free time, I guess in the grand scheme of things, maybe I actually am that guy even though I feel pretty busy generally.

Honestly, I do not know how angry I would have been if I'd gotten a sitter and gotten stiffed on a match. Maybe I'd demand a default, too, but from where I am sitting, no thanks. I'd like to think I would have just hit some serves for a half-hour, hit with the wall for ten minutes, stretched it out, then gone and done a few errands before relieving the sitter. Or maybe I'd be industrious enough to go get the sitter and have her watch one kid while I fed balls to the other -- all at the same park. There are plenty of things to do with 'wasted' time...which can allow for forgiveness and compassion to prevail.

Well happy tennis, gang. Peace.

Yes, generally when someone trys to throw an argument that is out of the norm and it's filled with irelevant sayings, life storys, etc..., that's kind of pointless.

I never said I was "offended" though, I was just making a point that no matter what you're using the "this is not the pro's" excuse for, that is a poor excuse anyway....

(which this one is, almost anyone else will say enough ill was done to the OP to at least warrent that she need not waste anymore time with this person).

Whether it's a default or not doesnt really matter. What matters is that person treated her with disrespect and she does not need to waste her time any further.

And that's where the line is drawn as far as Im concerned. Like I said, if the person calls ahead and says something comes up and they cant play, then you should try to play. It may still be inconvenient but it's still worth playing. (and the OP HAD already done this)

But if they actually show up and refuse to play, or they flat out dont show, dont call, then you shouldnt feel obligated anymore to play on their terms. Just move on to the next opponent and hope that they are more respectful of your time then this person....

And I dont think any of your warnings about "oooo.... if you default someone it makes it sound bad for you" or whatever are really a big deal. Anyone with half a brain will emphasis with the OP here.

We cant all go around hoping to make the perfect decision worrying that everyone is looking down at us, especially when they are not very respectful in the first place.

OrangePower
11-14-2009, 10:32 PM
So... any pictures of the courts in question?

Based on the OP's description, they sound fine, and the opponent is clearly being a pain in the neck.

But how many of you would play the match if you showed up at an 'away' match and saw this court?

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/11820453.jpg

How about this one?

http://www.frobenius.com/bletchley/bl027.jpg

:-)

mawashi
11-15-2009, 01:23 AM
So... any pictures of the courts in question?

Based on the OP's description, they sound fine, and the opponent is clearly being a pain in the neck.

But how many of you would play the match if you showed up at an 'away' match and saw this court?

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/11820453.jpg

How about this one?

http://www.frobenius.com/bletchley/bl027.jpg

:-)

I might consider playing on the first court if my opponent is laughing so hard he/she can't serve LOL!

For the second I probably park my car thinking it was the parking lot.

mawashi

JavierLW
11-15-2009, 06:21 AM
So... any pictures of the courts in question?

Based on the OP's description, they sound fine, and the opponent is clearly being a pain in the neck.

But how many of you would play the match if you showed up at an 'away' match and saw this court?

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/11820453.jpg

How about this one?

http://www.frobenius.com/bletchley/bl027.jpg

:-)

I wouldnt play on any of them because there are serious issues with the nets. (especially the one without any net if Im looking at that right)

I'll deal with cracks though and some deformitys on the court surface as long as it's safe, although Im not sure someone should have too, but if net is broken or lines are missing, then that's where I draw the line. (although if the net is just missing the center strap, I have one of those)

The OP claims that her courts were "perfect" though so I take that at her word it means at least the net and court was okay, although I suppose there are always people with different opinions of what "perfect" means.

I had to play half a set of a 7.5 Combo League match this year where the top net strap was broken and it was hanging off the net cord so you could actually hit the ball below the net cord. We had a lot of vicious net exchanges and neither my team or theres knew if the ball necessarily went over or under the net cord at times so we had to move.

Cindysphinx
11-15-2009, 07:42 AM
Oldracquet27,

I would have said something like ďYou certainly donít have to play if you donít want to. If you donít want to stick to the match schedule you agreed to, you can just default your match. My time is valuable to me and this was a match previously agreed upon. If you have a problem with the courts or environment and we are scheduled for future matches, we can feel free to schedule our next scheduled match at a venue you are more comfortable in. So do you want to play or default? It is up to you.Ē

Kill them with kindness but donítí give in. Never placate to those used to getting their own way. By rescheduling you are training her it is ok to behave this way and she will continue to do so to you and others. Best of luck in the future.

TM

As usual, Tennisman is spot-on. The best way to handle things is to *handle them.*

As things stand now, I do not think you should stoop to her level and schedule a match and then stand her up. Two wrongs do not make a right. Karma Karma Chameleon, and all of that. :)

If you don't think you have a strong enough case for a default, then just let her schedule the match and play her. Or don't. I wouldn't waste any more emotional energy on it.

And yeah, country club people can be quite finicky about pretty much everything -- court condition, amenities, availability of bathrooms and water. I've even had a country club friend remark on the attire of other players -- not chic enough, it seems. My experiences with them haven't been especially positive. Me, I'm low maintenance. So long as the courts aren't slick, I'm good to go.

samster
11-15-2009, 07:49 AM
So... any pictures of the courts in question?

Based on the OP's description, they sound fine, and the opponent is clearly being a pain in the neck.

But how many of you would play the match if you showed up at an 'away' match and saw this court?

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/11820453.jpg

How about this one?

http://www.frobenius.com/bletchley/bl027.jpg

:-)

Where did you find these courts?

Oldracquet27
11-15-2009, 08:08 AM
So... any pictures of the courts in question?

Based on the OP's description, they sound fine, and the opponent is clearly being a pain in the neck.

But how many of you would play the match if you showed up at an 'away' match and saw this court?

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/11820453.jpg

How about this one?

http://www.frobenius.com/bletchley/bl027.jpg

:-)


Trust me , the courts where perfect to play in. This park is always packed with tennis players, and coaches training juniors and adults.....Absolutely in good condition.

Oldracquet27
11-15-2009, 08:15 AM
As usual, Tennisman is spot-on. The best way to handle things is to *handle them.*

As things stand now, I do not think you should stoop to her level and schedule a match and then stand her up. Two wrongs do not make a right. Karma Karma Chameleon, and all of that. :)

If you don't think you have a strong enough case for a default, then just let her schedule the match and play her. Or don't. I wouldn't waste any more emotional energy on it.

And yeah, country club people can be quite finicky about pretty much everything -- court condition, amenities, availability of bathrooms and water. I've even had a country club friend remark on the attire of other players -- not chic enough, it seems. My experiences with them haven't been especially positive. Me, I'm low maintenance. So long as the courts aren't slick, I'm good to go.


But, i am starting to realize that some people do not learn if they do not taste a little bit of their own medicine or "poison"?, anyway , what i mean is that i know how you think , i do think the same way too, we want to behave right, we are rational people, we are compassionate about others, but the thing is that some people are clueless and they just will keep doing it again again!. You might think she is sad about what she did ? NOT!!!! she isn't , otherwise, 1-)she would had apologized in her email asking to reschedule, or 2) she would feel so embarassed after what happened that she would never contact me again!.

JavierLW
11-15-2009, 01:24 PM
But, i am starting to realize that some people do not learn if they do not taste a little bit of their own medicine or "poison"?, anyway , what i mean is that i know how you think , i do think the same way too, we want to behave right, we are rational people, we are compassionate about others, but the thing is that some people are clueless and they just will keep doing it again again!. You might think she is sad about what she did ? NOT!!!! she isn't , otherwise, 1-)she would had apologized in her email asking to reschedule, or 2) she would feel so embarassed after what happened that she would never contact me again!.

I understand what you are saying, but I think when people are in your situation, there are really two issues involved:

1) Protecting yourself and not wasting anymore of your time. (can be done simply by refusing to reschedule any longer)

2) Trying to "teach her a lesson". We're adults, it's not really worth it to go thru the trouble of screwing someone just to "teach them a lesson".

Trust me, this lady wont change anyway, and luckily she's not a friend, relative, co-worker, etc of yours so you need not worry too much about it.

She's exactly the sort of person though that rules are made for. If I played her again, I would not give in to her, I would just be honest with her and if it was my home match she has a choice of showing up to play or not.

If she doesnt want to play then that's her problem, she shouldnt sign up for a league like that then.

OrangePower
11-15-2009, 01:47 PM
Where did you find these courts?

Found them doing a google pictures search. No idea where they actually are - thankfully I've never personally seen courts quite that bad!!!

Thought I would include them in this thread for a laugh... didn't expect anyone to actually take the question seriously... :twisted: :shock:

Steady Eddy
11-15-2009, 03:09 PM
As things stand now, I do not think you should stoop to her level and schedule a match and then stand her up. Two wrongs do not make a right.


But, i am starting to realize that some people do not learn if they do not taste a little bit of their own medicine or "poison"?
But they don't learn even with a taste of their own medicine. She'll complain about you even though it's the exact same thing she did. People do that all the time. They have one standard for themselves, and another standard for everybody else. Guess they've never heard of Kant's 'categorical imperative'. ;)

Cindysphinx
11-15-2009, 03:35 PM
But they don't learn even with a taste of their own medicine. She'll complain about you even though it's the exact same thing she did. People do that all the time. They have one standard for themselves, and another standard for everybody else. Guess they've never heard of Kant's 'categorical imperative'. ;)

The way to give them a "taste" is to tell them what they did wrong. Confront, confront and confront. If you calmly express the reason why you are unhappy, she will never forget it. If simply no-show, you relinquish the high road and she gets to go to her grave thinking YOU wronged HER.

The best part about confronting people in a calm and rational way is that they never know quite what to say. Because they are so self-centered, it never occurs to them that someone might be unhappy with them. So you say your piece, and they stand their with their mouth open.

And they don't think of a snappy come-back until about six hours later! "Well, the jerk store called and they're running out of you!" :)

slice bh compliment
11-15-2009, 05:54 PM
Cindy makes a great point about honest communication.

Nope I totally agree with your assessment, I would much rather play than take a walkover. And you would think especially with league matches considering there are so few of them in a season.

But I do agree the woman was rude... which is why I would let her set up the match on her terms... (not ideal) but I just want to play. Plus how much better would it be to beat her on her terms.

Solid post. Thanks.

...out of the norm and it's filled with irelevant sayings, life storys, etc..., that's kind of pointless......

I wouldnt play on any of them because there are serious issues with the nets. (especially the one without any net if Im looking at that right)

I'll deal with cracks though and some deformitys on the court surface as long as it's safe, although Im not sure someone should have too, but if net is broken or lines are missing, then that's where I draw the line. (although if the net is just missing the center strap, I have one of those)

The OP claims that her courts were "perfect" though so I take that at her word it means at least the net and court was okay, although I suppose there are always people with different opinions of what "perfect" means.

I had to play half a set of a 7.5 Combo League match this year where the top net strap was broken and it was hanging off the net cord so you could actually hit the ball below the net cord. We had a lot of vicious net exchanges and neither my team or theres knew if the ball necessarily went over or under the net cord at times so we had to move.

LOL!

JavierLW
11-15-2009, 06:03 PM
Cindy makes a great point about honest communication.



Solid post. Thanks.





LOL!

Yes I think you miss the whole point.

Im not using it to forward some idea or prove anything. It's just a point of interest.

You went on to use some actual valid excuse as an example to try to make an argument that somehow if the OP decided not to reschedule this one it would look bad because she's winning by default, because obviously you dont feel that her opponent went enough over the line to warrant not having the OP's time wasted any longer.

I think it's way over the line to expect that the OP be obligated to play in her particular case, especially if you're trying to say "it looks bad" or whatever....

But at least you were able to admit you dont have kids, etc...., so you probably just dont realize just how bad and inconvenient this is to the OP. (who already rearranged her entire schedule to accomidate the opponent)

It's the "FLEX League", if she had all the time in the world she'd probably wouldnt be in the FLEX League.

slice bh compliment
11-15-2009, 06:21 PM
Sorry mate, you might have missed it: I have kids. I wrote in one of my 'pointless', 'irrelevant' posts that had my 'life story' in it that I felt fortunate that my wife is a stay-at-home mom.

You are hilarious, Javier. Thanks for the chuckle. Thanks for everything!

Annika
11-16-2009, 01:17 AM
It is so nice to know i can vent my fustration with you all, thanks for all your comments. But i got to say again, i want to play tennis of course, but as someone said before if i accept to reschedule after what she did , I am telling her that is okey the way she behaved, and she will go for life doing the same thing to others. I am sorry to tell you all my fellow tennis friends that " i have a plan" " a vengful plan ". She sent me an email today asking to reschedule, not apologies or anything. I will say yes, will set a date and i will make sure i will leave her waiting for me in the court with her outfit on and all!.. Please do not judge me, this is something i have never done, i don't think i would even think about something like that, but this girl treated me like s....t.

Your "vengeful plan" made me laugh. :twisted: It's your choice of course. I doubt it will teach her anything or change her unfortunately. But I can understand why you just don't want to play her. :evil:

Ripper014
11-16-2009, 11:04 AM
But, i am starting to realize that some people do not learn if they do not taste a little bit of their own medicine or "poison"?, anyway , what i mean is that i know how you think , i do think the same way too, we want to behave right, we are rational people, we are compassionate about others, but the thing is that some people are clueless and they just will keep doing it again again!. You might think she is sad about what she did ? NOT!!!! she isn't , otherwise, 1-)she would had apologized in her email asking to reschedule, or 2) she would feel so embarassed after what happened that she would never contact me again!.

Your assessment might be accurate if you were dealing with the average sane person. I seems quite obvious to me she is living in a delusional world where if you check the center of it you would see her. She did not apologize nor does she feel any sense of embarassment because she does not feel she did anything wrong.

I believe the bigger thing to consider is why "YOU" play in this flex league... is it for the exercise... the comfort in knowing you have a tennis game every week... for the competition and playing with new people?

At this point it is about you and how you want to deal with it. I personal like playing... but if you feel you would get no sense of enjoyment from it... then don't do it, take the walk-over.

equinox
01-06-2010, 06:29 AM
Just show her "The Hand" and shout "b!tch please" works for me when these exclusive $2000+ a year geezers start whinging abut everything..

slice bh compliment
01-06-2010, 06:34 AM
Just show her "The Hand" and shout "b!tch please" works for me when these exclusive $2000+ a year geezers start whinging abut everything..

LOL! Right on, because the time-honored White Trash Approach to life is really fulfilling and successful. If I'm not mistaken, your techniques are mentioned in a book by Dale Carnegie. Is that where you researched them? Or did you get that from one of the Proverbs?

West Coast Ace
01-08-2010, 10:58 PM
2) Trying to "teach her a lesson". We're adults, it's not really worth it to go thru the trouble of screwing someone just to "teach them a lesson".
I'm with you on this. Like trying to convince people going 5 under the speed limit in the left lane to get over; just pass them and go along.

Two wrongs do not make a right.I was hoping someone would get this in. The other way to look at it is 'sinking to their level'.

To the OP: why did you join the flex league? Are you that interested in 'winning it'? I don't understand why you want the default 'victory'. Just email the facilitator, explain your opponent's inflexibility and move onto your next match.

I really wish you'd post a picture of the courts. Just because a lot of people use them doesn't mean they are good - could be the only open courts.

ALten1
01-10-2010, 06:09 AM
I wouldnt play on any of them because there are serious issues with the nets. (especially the one without any net if Im looking at that right)

I'll deal with cracks though and some deformitys on the court surface as long as it's safe, although Im not sure someone should have too, but if net is broken or lines are missing, then that's where I draw the line. (although if the net is just missing the center strap, I have one of those)

The OP claims that her courts were "perfect" though so I take that at her word it means at least the net and court was okay, although I suppose there are always people with different opinions of what "perfect" means.

I had to play half a set of a 7.5 Combo League match this year where the top net strap was broken and it was hanging off the net cord so you could actually hit the ball below the net cord. We had a lot of vicious net exchanges and neither my team or theres knew if the ball necessarily went over or under the net cord at times so we had to move.


Recently played at a local college. The top net strap would fall off if the ball hit the net. Several times during the serve we would stand there dumbfounded wondering if the ball went thru the net or over it. The lights were on timers and would cut off, and then take 15 minutes to cool off before they would come back on after finding the timer to cut them back on. One light never worked. BTW this was the second court we played on that night because we found it was in better shape than the first.

A dang four year university tennis court, and they have a tennis team.

Hominator
01-10-2010, 06:59 AM
Just show her "The Hand" and shout "b!tch please" works for me when these exclusive $2000+ a year geezers start whinging abut everything..

lol. Best. Post. Ever.

This thread is like an episode of Flavor of Love...

athiker
01-10-2010, 10:53 AM
OP, I loved your planned revenge too, but its really one of those things that sounds better than it actually is to do. I would want to do that, but wouldn't.

IMHO, if you have grounds for default then take it and move on. Not b/c of win or lose, but just to avoid having to spend anymore time on/with this person. Life is too short. Yes we join leagues to play tennis, but one less tennis match in our lives won't make or break our overall satisfaction with our life!

If you don't have grounds for a default for the original match b/c you left it open to play another time when you parted (I don't know if this was or wasn't the case) or for some other reason and you can't stand the idea of being forced to default to her then reschedule. As I understand it you were "home" so it was up to you to pick a location and work out the scheduling with her. I play in a local Compass league and this is how ours works at least. I would NOT play at a location of her choice, but of your choice, including the same courts if you like. If she refused, you again have grounds for a default and are done with her. If these courts are as busy as you say, then surely others in the league use them and you will have no trouble with your default claim.

If you decide even though she is a complete < > you would rather default to her than waste time and energy rescheduling only to play an unpleasant match, take the default, and spend your time in a more enjoyable way playing a friend or next opponent. This again, is assuming for some reason you can't hold her to the original default...as that would be my first and most efficient option. Good luck.