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fruitytennis1
11-13-2009, 09:09 AM
So why do girls get more tennis scholorships than guys.

Dave Mc
11-13-2009, 09:21 AM
Because of Title IX.

duusoo
11-13-2009, 12:04 PM
Because of title IX, you have many more programs at both D1 and D2. It's not uncommon for the lesser D1 schools to be looking for players, i.e. scholarships chasing players. You have some girls on a full-ride playing 5 or 6 singles. Quite different for men!

goran_ace
11-13-2009, 12:20 PM
Because of title IX, you have many more programs at both D1 and D2. It's not uncommon for the lesser D1 schools to be looking for players, i.e. scholarships chasing players. You have some girls on a full-ride playing 5 or 6 singles. Quite different for men!

worse than that - the #7 and #8 players on a women's team might be getting a full ride to warm the bench

gokou703
11-13-2009, 04:43 PM
Because of football....btw...i wrote a pretty decent post about title IX a while ago you want to search why it was put into effect.

fruitytennis1
11-14-2009, 04:03 PM
Umm if you could assist me in finding that the would be appreciated i just looked through college forums 2 times over.

tennismom42
11-14-2009, 05:04 PM
Umm if you could assist me in finding that the would be appreciated i just looked through college forums 2 times over.
Go to his post, on the left, you will see his handle. Click on it. There will be about 4 pop-down choices. Click on the one that says, "more posts by..." Scroll down about 1/2 way. You will see one titled, "title IX" Click on it

fruitytennis1
11-14-2009, 05:49 PM
Ahh thanks for the help. While i was reading I found out that apparently my bro posted in it.

JLyon
11-14-2009, 06:46 PM
Yup the ladies in D1 can have 8 Full Rides, if the school chooses to fund that many, while the guys are stuck with 4.5 total. Seems odd to give 2x as many scholarships to a group that is 1/2 the size, but scholarships are available if many players will forgo going to State U. and look to the small towns.

ClarkC
11-14-2009, 08:36 PM
Because of football....

Let's use simple logic to test the PC theory that women get more tennis scholarships than men because of football.

Football has been around a long time, The scholarship limit was 120 in the 1960s. Did women get more tennis scholarships than men back then? No.

Then Title IX came along, Football scholarships have been reduced in a couple of decrements to 85. Women's scholarships in numerous sports have outpaced men's scholarships.

So, did football cause it, or Title IX? Q.E.D.

fruitytennis1
11-15-2009, 05:03 AM
Umm Q.e.d.??? Stands for.

ClarkC
11-15-2009, 08:03 PM
Umm Q.e.d.??? Stands for.

Q.E.D. even has its own Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q.E.D.) now. :)

10isDad
11-16-2009, 02:20 AM
Let's use simple logic to test the PC theory that women get more tennis scholarships than men because of football.

Football has been around a long time, The scholarship limit was 120 in the 1960s. Did women get more tennis scholarships than men back then? No.

Then Title IX came along, Football scholarships have been reduced in a couple of decrements to 85. Women's scholarships in numerous sports have outpaced men's scholarships.

So, did football cause it, or Title IX? Q.E.D.

Definitely a combination of the two. Bottom line is Title IX requires that female and male student-athletes receive athletics scholarship dollars proportional to their participation, so basically there must be a near equivalent amount of scholarship dollars available for men and women. Title IX also requires that women and men be provided equitable opportunities to participate in sports. Title IX doesn't require schools to offer identical sports but an equal opportunity to play.

Football is allowed 85 scholarships, and it's a head-count sport so all scholarship recipients receive a full scholarship. It is largely because off football's 85 scholarships that other men's sports do not receive as many scholarships as like female sports programs.

Where it really is harsh, in my opinion, is the NCAA has defined the scholarship limits regardless of the sports offered. Schools without football are still limited to the same limits for their other sports, so in these schools men's tennis is still limited to 4.5 total scholarships even though there isn't that huge drain from football.

So, look at a school without football - say UNC-Wilmington. Listed below are the sports offered and the theoretical number of scholarships available.

Baseball/Softball - 11.7 (m) vs. 12 (w)
Basketball - 13 vs 15
Track/Field/XCountry - 12.6 vs 18
Golf - 4.5 vs 6
Soccer - 9.9 vs 14
Swimming/Diving - 9.9 vs 14
Tennis 4.5 vs 8
Volleyball - no mens team - 12 (w)

Theoretically, UNC-W has 66.1 men's scholarships vs 99 women's scholarships. The school may not offer that many scholarships (and likely doesn't so they don't suffer a reverse Title IX effect). If UNC-W did have a football team, it's likely there would be fewer men's sports and/or more women's sports offered to offset the participation/scholarship dollars rules of Title IX.

One final note: women's tennis wasn't introduced by the NCAA until the 1981/1982 season, so the statement regarding a comparison of men's vs women's tennis scholarships in the 1960's really doesn't apply.

AndrewD
11-16-2009, 04:08 AM
And how many of the guys who receive partial tennis scholarships received other scholarships or financial awards to make up the shortfall?

fruitytennis1
11-16-2009, 06:57 PM
So why isnt footballs scholorships cut. Or atleast to the point of giving partials to the bench warmers who see no field time.

A joke found in odds and ends column.
Obituary of Common Sense

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, "Common Sense", who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.

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Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with s@xual harassment for kissing a classmate, teens suspended from school for using mouth wash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

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Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault. Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, sued the organization and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust. His wife, Discretion, his daughter, Responsibility, his son, Reason. He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers; I Know My Rights; I Want It Now; Someone Else Is To Blame; I am A Victim.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.

My own comments(We miss you common sense please come back)

papatenis
11-17-2009, 08:26 AM
Someone please explain why football teams get so many scholarships?
Football 85 scholarships, men's tennis 4.5????
You could say that 2/3 of the team is only there for practice and the bench.
Anybody with any football knowledge explain why they have so many players on a team?

andfor
11-17-2009, 08:43 AM
Someone please explain why football teams get so many scholarships?
Football 85 scholarships, men's tennis 4.5????
You could say that 2/3 of the team is only there for practice and the bench.
Anybody with any football knowledge explain why they have so many players on a team?

Football is a money maker suposedly at the D1 level. At the smaller college level I do not see how they could actually make money based on ticket sales and donations alone, although I guess it's possbile. As for 85 players, you have 11 on offense and 11 on defense. I know that's only 22. Football does have the largest number of players needed of any sport to field a team. You also have special teams of which many are often made up of under classmen. Football starters are traditionally Juniors and Seniors so you have to have many underclassmen to fill the starters roll when the seniors graduate year after year. Also have to have reserves for injury.

duusoo
11-18-2009, 04:15 AM
You have to factor in injuries, also specialists. The numbers are justified. Look at Ohio State University, football I would say carries the entire athletic department. It's just the way it goes. No one has any trouble with that, and at OSU, all of the athletes respect one another. The issue here is women's scholarships v. men's. It's only going to get worse as more programs drop men's tennis. The real problem is the level of play at some of the lesser D1 and D2 programs. I attribute that more to the coaches and programs at those schools. You take some programs have only a part time coach, he is paid at a rate lower than a high school coach, what are you getting?

rosenstar
11-18-2009, 08:36 AM
Football is a money maker suposedly at the D1 level. At the smaller college level I do not see how they could actually make money based on ticket sales and donations alone, although I guess it's possbile.

Go to a real football school, PSU, LSU, Alabama, Florida, Miami, VT, etc. VT has the smallest stadium of those schools - about 65,000 seats. Every game sells out, tickets go for about $20-$120 depending on the opponent. That's between 1.3 million and 7.8 million per game. That's not even including concessions. PSU's stadium seats around 110,000, and assuming tickets go for the same cost, that's between 2.2 million and 13.2 million per game. Tickets for the PSU/OSU game were going for $300 on the lower end. That's over 33 million in profit. You get the idea.


As for 85 players, you have 11 on offense and 11 on defense. I know that's only 22. Football does have the largest number of players needed of any sport to field a team. You also have special teams of which many are often made up of under classmen. Football starters are traditionally Juniors and Seniors so you have to have many underclassmen to fill the starters roll when the seniors graduate year after year. Also have to have reserves for injury.

Not all 85 are on scholarship, and the comment about special teams is false, there are many upperclassmen playing special teams.

So why does football get so much scholarship money?

Because they bring in the most money!

duusoo
11-18-2009, 09:06 AM
Go to a real football school, PSU, LSU, Alabama, Florida, Miami, VT, etc. VT has the smallest stadium of those schools - about 65,000 seats. Every game sells out, tickets go for about $20-$120 depending on the opponent. That's between 1.3 million and 7.8 million per game. That's not even including concessions. PSU's stadium seats around 110,000, and assuming tickets go for the same cost, that's between 2.2 million and 13.2 million per game. Tickets for the PSU/OSU game were going for $300 on the lower end. That's over 33 million in profit. You get the idea.



Not all 85 are on scholarship, and the comment about special teams is false, there are many upperclassmen playing special teams.

So why does football get so much scholarship money?

Because they bring in the most money!

I said in my response, look at Ohio State. I believe we qualify as a real football school. Also, a real tennis school!

ClarkC
11-18-2009, 11:31 AM
And how many of the guys who receive partial tennis scholarships received other scholarships or financial awards to make up the shortfall?

8 women receive full rides on many NCAA Division 1 teams for 4 years. Are you implying that the men receive enough in other scholarships to even out the situation?

goran_ace
11-18-2009, 12:50 PM
from a Street & Smith’s SportsBusiness Journal article earlier this year about how much revenue football brings:

The University of Texas ranked No. 1 with $72.95 million followed by the University of Georgia with $67.05 million, University of Florida with $66.1 million, Ohio State University with $65.16 million and Notre Dame University with $59.77 million. The remaining 10 teams in football revenues were the University of Michigan (No. 7 with $ 57.46 million), Penn State University (No. 9 with 53.76 million) and Louisiana State University (10th with $52.68 million).

goran_ace
11-18-2009, 12:56 PM
it's also worth noting that big time college football teams can have expenses in in the $25M-$30M range.

rosenstar
11-18-2009, 02:14 PM
I said in my response, look at Ohio State. I believe we qualify as a real football school. Also, a real tennis school!

Sorry I missed that, Yes OSU is a real football school and a damn good tennis school.

grizzly4life
11-18-2009, 03:10 PM
i saw a canadian school looking for golfers.... set cutoff of handicap 4 for men, 15 for women. just a massive difference. and as i'm sure most of you know, a 10 handicap for men and women is totally different, the man is much, much better.

TennisCoachFLA
11-18-2009, 04:05 PM
I have heard this discussion 100000 times. Yup, as far as tennis scholarships women have an advantage. Unfair, especially to many white guys who try for tennis scholarships? Okay.

But that is life. White men have advantages in many, many other areas that are unfair to women and minorities. They make more money for the same work many times. They hire others who look like them over equally qualified people sometimes. And Ivy League white guys are notorious for keeping it all in the 'family' as much as they can.

I think in the grand scheme of society, the advantages FAR outweigh any disadvantages we have in tennis scholarships!

The plain truth is very little in life is a level playing field, in most arenas someone has an advantage. The women won the tennis and golf scholarship battle, us white guys win many other battles, such is life.