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West Coast Ace
11-23-2009, 05:58 PM
I didn't see this posted anywhere else:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news;_ylt=AtZvnJq9HfJDWiCEc4zkOHc4v7YF?slug=ap-usopen-kantariancompensation&prov=ap&type=lgns

Could the timing of the release be any worse for the USTA? Time for renewals...

papatenis
11-23-2009, 06:15 PM
Unbelievable!!!!!!!!
It was my impression that the USTA was a non-profit? Just think how many courts 9 million dollars could have built across America (grow the game), offer more prize money to the futures and challengers, support tennis at high schools, there are many ways to help grow the game, not the salary of it's executives!

West Coast Ace
11-23-2009, 06:21 PM
It was my impression that the USTA was a non-profit?'Non-profit' doesn't mean they don't pay salaries. I'm sure they would say they need to pay the top people huge amounts because they have to attract the best talent to 'grow the game'. Looking at the current crop of players who will follow Roddick and Blake make this a dubious claim...

The American Way got outed a few yrs back - and lost a ton of donations from large companies like mine - when it was exposed that the top executives were women who were married to multi-millionaires and still drew $500k salaries, flew 1st class, stayed in 5-star hotels while taking boondoggles to Paris and other cities.

JavierLW
11-23-2009, 07:08 PM
It was my impression that the USTA was a non-profit?

Usually when people say that it's apparent they do not understand the true meaning of "non-profit".

The whole anti-executive pay thing is getting childish already. If you want a well run business and you want to invest in your professional staff as they said, that's their business.

They are running a business, nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head to give them money (unlike the government) so it's kind of silly to complain if someone makes what seems to you to be a lot of money.

If this makes you mad, you should see where the rest of the money usually goes. Usually it goes to local "Tennis and Education Foundations" which are run by other "well off" people and couples.

Face it, most poor people dont run charitys or take the time to head them up, they dont have the time or the resources (or skill) to do so.....

Steady Eddy
11-23-2009, 07:18 PM
Usually when people say that it's apparent they do not understand the true meaning of "non-profit".

The whole anti-executive pay thing is getting childish already. If you want a well run business and you want to invest in your professional staff as they said, that's their business.

They are running a business, nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head to give them money (unlike the government) so it's kind of silly to complain if someone makes what seems to you to be a lot of money.

No one is saying that this is illegal. It's just that alot of people might be more inclined to pay for a USTA membership if they felt it was doing more than going to an overpaid executive, (I know, because I'm one of them). Their PR is important. This doesn't help their image and might hurt their ability to raise money in the future.

West Coast Ace
11-23-2009, 07:23 PM
The whole anti-executive pay thing is getting childish already.
I agree about corporate America. Most people don't have a clue about the decisions a head of a Fortune 100 makes. And the Left uses it for Class Warfare. But this is different. And I will wait patiently for you to defend the amount AT got. I'm not saying he should get $12,000 a year. But multiple millions? Come on. That's excessive


Face it, most poor people dont run charitys or take the time to head them up, they dont have the time or the resources (or skill) to do so.....Wow, that's pretty callous... and you speled 'charities' wrong - doesn't look good on you...

JavierLW
11-23-2009, 08:32 PM
And I will wait patiently for you to defend the amount AT got. I'm not saying he should get $12,000 a year. But multiple millions? Come on. That's excessive


Who the heck are we to determine what's excessive or not in someone else's business?

We live in a supposed free society. Whether it's "non-profit" or not a business has a right to spend whatever it wants on it's executives and that's really non of anyone else's business.

If it bothers you that much then dont pay the USTA then.

For me though every year they go over this speel about what our registration goes towards and you know what?

I think they are missing the whole point. We're customers, we're paying a certain amount of money and we're getting a product. There's really nothing more to it then that. If we are getting a good product then whatever they do with the money is irrelevant.

If we get a bad product then like I said, nobody puts a gun to anyone's head and tells them they have to pay any business money....

JavierLW
11-23-2009, 08:41 PM
No one is saying that this is illegal. It's just that alot of people might be more inclined to pay for a USTA membership if they felt it was doing more than going to an overpaid executive, (I know, because I'm one of them). Their PR is important. This doesn't help their image and might hurt their ability to raise money in the future.

No it wont.

That's where they have it wrong, they are not like a normal charity where people necessarily donate money.

No, we are paying for a product. We pay for membership dues because we need that to gain access to USTA events. We pay registration fees because we want to play on their tennis leagues. We pay tournament fees because we want to play in their tournaments.

That's been my entire beef with the USTA or anyone who claims that somehow they are "non-profit". They dont seem to understand that on the consumer level they are basically a business, they are selling us a product and we are paying for a product. Where the money goes or how they provide that product is irrelevant just like any other business. (unless we own a stake in the company)

If you got to the bottom of any large charity you're going to see a similar price. It's just that most of them involve causes that nobody bothers to write a report about. Trust me, this guy wouldnt get paid that sort of salary if there werent others out there making something similar.

And it's only bad PR for people who care about such silly trivial issues. Any sensible person who cares about contributing money to a cause will look at how much of it is making it to the actual cause, not silly issues like how much is going to the CEO. (which even though it may be more money then you can imagine it's likely a tiny fraction of their overall take for the year)

If people wanted to get so mad, they should get mad at the government, your typical cause there is such that for every $1 you are taxed, maybe 1c goes to an actual person....

10sguy
11-23-2009, 10:32 PM
I didn't see this posted anywhere else:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news;_ylt=AtZvnJq9HfJDWiCEc4zkOHc4v7YF?slug=ap-usopen-kantariancompensation&prov=ap&type=lgns

Could the timing of the release be any worse for the USTA? Time for renewals...

Folks, the BIG revenue generator in/for USTA is the US Open. not our memberships, that's for certain! Others are spot on; we pay a relatively small dues amount for the priveledge of playing or whetever turns our cranks.

bpp
11-24-2009, 01:57 AM
Folks, the BIG revenue generator in/for USTA is the US Open. not our memberships, that's for certain! Others are spot on; we pay a relatively small dues amount for the priveledge of playing or whetever turns our cranks.

That might be true but what is your source? I believe membership, league, tournament fees,etc. generate a pretty decent percentage of their revenue and probably more then you think. Almost all this work is done on the local level too and by people who are probably working for free.

Anyways, I just think a lot of people would like to believe that the USTA does it for the love of the game and not the love of money. Does he deserve that much money for his work? Probably not even close to that.

bpp
11-24-2009, 02:05 AM
If you got to the bottom of any large charity you're going to see a similar price. It's just that most of them involve causes that nobody bothers to write a report about. Trust me, this guy wouldnt get paid that sort of salary if there werent others out there making something similar.


It appears as if in 2007, the USGA executive director, David Fay made $746,905. The USGA has to be much bigger then the USTA.

Topaz
11-24-2009, 03:07 AM
Wow, that's pretty callous... and you speled 'charities' wrong - doesn't look good on you...

And you spelled 'spelled' wrong...:)

I don't even want to think about the gross salaries of 'corporate' America...always leaves me wanting to throw something through a window.

Yes, most of us don't have time to run charities because we actually have to work for a living. Ah well, could be worse...these days, I feel fortunate to even *have* a job.

And yes, I think USTA dues are pretty small and cheap. I don't join many professional organizations that relate to my job because the dues are in the three figures.

bpp
11-24-2009, 03:14 AM
That might be true but what is your source? I believe membership, league, tournament fees,etc. generate a pretty decent percentage of their revenue and probably more then you think. Almost all this work is done on the local level too and by people who are probably working for free.

Anyways, I just think a lot of people would like to believe that the USTA does it for the love of the game and not the love of money. Does he deserve that much money for his work? Probably not even close to that.

I will answer my own question. From a Forbes article:

The money-spinning competition generates an estimated $195 million, about 85% of the United States Tennis Association's (USTA) revenue for the year, the rest of which comes largely from membership dues.

jrod
11-24-2009, 03:24 AM
I...The money-spinning competition generates an estimated $195 million, about 85% of the United States Tennis Association's (USTA) revenue for the year, the rest of which comes largely from membership dues.


The question to ask here is what has the USTA done for you? In my case, they've done dick-all. Apparently, they continue to excel at this despite leadership changes.

If you think it's time to dismantle this dinosaur then vote with your wallet.

bpp
11-24-2009, 04:00 AM
The question to ask here is what has the USTA done for you? In my case, they've done dick-all. Apparently, they continue to excel at this despite leadership changes.

If you think it's time to dismantle this dinosaur then vote with your wallet.

Most of what is done for me is done for free by volunteers that could be seperate from the USTA. There is no reason a seperate league could exist and flourish without the USTA (i.e. ALTA in Atlanta). The strength of the USTA is its existing infrastructure.

Anyways, it looks like they have decided not to fill that position and just have those duties divided among 4 other executives. One questions then how much it was really needed in the first place. That being said, it looks like he was successful in many endeavors (which might speak more to the incompetency of the USTA before him).

fe6250
11-24-2009, 04:14 AM
“Revenue at the USTA is up $93 million between 2000 and 2008, and we’ve hit other record benchmarks, including 30 million tennis players, the highest USTA membership in our history, and three consecutive record U.S. Opens in attendance and revenue.”

It appears that much of this guys salary was performance based and kicked in based on a change in the terms of his employment with the USTA. I don't personally have a problem with leaders getting paid based on performance as it promotes leading an organization to new levels of success. It's when the results are in the tank and they make these kind of numbers that they are tough to swallow.

Kostas
11-24-2009, 05:44 AM
I agree with Javier completely.

raiden031
11-24-2009, 06:23 AM
I just renewed my USTA membership. I was asked if I wanted to donate money to help grow the game. I happily declined to contribute a donation to an organization with an overpaid exec.

jrod
11-24-2009, 06:58 AM
^^^ I purchased a 5 year membership and haven't used it or benefited whatsoever in the past 3 years. There are numerous other opportunities to join leagues and play quality tennis outside of the USTA in my area it's highly doubtful I will rejoin. I currently play 5-6x per week and absolutely none of it is USTA sponsored.

raiden031
11-24-2009, 07:04 AM
^^^ I purchased a 5 year membership and haven't used it or benefited whatsoever in the past 3 years. There are numerous other opportunities to join leagues and play quality tennis outside of the USTA in my area it's highly doubtful I will rejoin. I currently play 5-6x per week and absolutely none of it is USTA sponsored.

I think its worth it for me...I haven't found much quality tennis outside of USTA so far.

What I find absolutely absurd is the $750 for a lifetime membership. Its $160 for 5-years, so you are paying an equivalent to like 23 years of USTA membership just to get the lifetime membership. Most people will NOT get their money's worth on that one.

Topaz
11-24-2009, 07:14 AM
I find it well worth it, too...I play a ton of USTA stuff, and would likely not be in the game at all if not for the USTA.

I'm not sure why some of you would pay for the membership and then not use it to play leagues or tournaments? That's the only reason to join in my opinion.

jrod
11-24-2009, 07:29 AM
I find it well worth it, too...I play a ton of USTA stuff, and would likely not be in the game at all if not for the USTA.

I'm not sure why some of you would pay for the membership and then not use it to play leagues or tournaments? That's the only reason to join in my opinion.

That's why I initially joined. However, it quickly became clear that they are not the only game in town. I wonder if in the larger metro areas this is generally the case? The junior players around here have no choice but to play USTA....

Topaz
11-24-2009, 07:54 AM
That's why I initially joined. However, it quickly became clear that they are not the only game in town. I wonder if in the larger metro areas this is generally the case? The junior players around here have no choice but to play USTA....

That is why I joined as well. For the most part (unless you don't work and join club flights, which are usually during 'work time') USTA is it for us in the DC metro area, but there are *tons* of leagues to choose from, and you can literally have several matches a day if you want. I believe USTA is just about it for the juniors around here, too.

I actually wish there were half as many adult USTA tournaments as there are juniors!

ebrainsoft
11-24-2009, 08:02 AM
I wonder what the current CEO is making?

I think the members of this forum are more knowledgeable about tennis than anyone in the USTA. We should start our own tennis association and show the USTA knuckleheads how to do it right!

papatenis
11-24-2009, 08:05 AM
USTA, United States Tennis Association, what have they done for tennis in the United States? Tennis has exploded everywhere in the world except here in the U.S.
Revenue is up at the U.S. Open, but what happens to that money?
Every year American colleges are dropping their tennis programs, many of our tennis scholarships are given away to foreign players, why are there less American professionals on tour, many high school teams have to fund themselves with fund raising (we had to pay $750 for our daughter to play on the team this year), tennis tournament fee's for local junior tournaments are now reaching the $40 level, where I live there are no new public tennis courts, instead they are being converted into condos and shopping centers.

I would think that the "mission statement" of the USTA, would be to grow and support the game of tennis in the United States.

JoelDali
11-24-2009, 09:12 AM
Folks, the BIG revenue generator in/for USTA is the US Open. not our memberships, that's for certain! Others are spot on; we pay a relatively small dues amount for the priveledge of playing or whetever turns our cranks.

How funny.

I said a few months ago that the USTA doesn't give a damn about league tennis revenue and I was flamed.

And now this?

$9 million to ONE guy?

They don't care about your silly league team.

LOL

JoelDali
11-24-2009, 09:14 AM
USTA, United States Tennis Association, what have they done for tennis in the United States? Tennis has exploded everywhere in the world except here in the U.S.
Revenue is up at the U.S. Open, but what happens to that money?
Every year American colleges are dropping their tennis programs, many of our tennis scholarships are given away to foreign players, why are there less American professionals on tour, many high school teams have to fund themselves with fund raising (we had to pay $750 for our daughter to play on the team this year), tennis tournament fee's for local junior tournaments are now reaching the $40 level, where I live there are no new public tennis courts, instead they are being converted into condos and shopping centers.

I would think that the "mission statement" of the USTA, would be to grow and support the game of tennis in the United States.

Imagine what only $1 million could for 10 talented American kids.

Where does the money really go?

No one knows ... :)

SteveI
11-24-2009, 09:26 AM
I find it well worth it, too...I play a ton of USTA stuff, and would likely not be in the game at all if not for the USTA.

I'm not sure why some of you would pay for the membership and then not use it to play leagues or tournaments? That's the only reason to join in my opinion.

Topaz,

I have been a member for @ least 10 years and have not played USTA League Tennis or Tourneys in about 15 years. There are other reasons I am a member. BTW.. the USTA is very top heavy and a very large percentage of the work done by the USTA is done by vols and CTAs. Without the CTAs and vols the USTA would get almost nothing done. I could play 7 days a week if my body could take the beating without the USTA.

Steve

ebrainsoft
11-24-2009, 09:31 AM
Did he have a private jet too?

JavierLW
11-24-2009, 09:46 AM
I just renewed my USTA membership. I was asked if I wanted to donate money to help grow the game. I happily declined to contribute a donation to an organization with an overpaid exec.

Usually that money goes to "Tennis Education Foundations".

(other charity's which like I said usually involve a couple or a small group which are pretty well off themselves)

That's how the USTA gets away with being non-profit. All they have to do is give a certain amount of their profits to these other charities and they get to keep non-profit status.

(they are still a private entity which can pay it's staff whatever it sees fit)

Cruzer
11-24-2009, 09:57 AM
Imagine what only $1 million could for 10 talented American kids.

Where does the money really go?

No one knows ... :)

Be careful. You will have all the PC folks up in arms suggesting that the USTA discriminate by giving money to American kids. They will be all over you saying "this is America. the land of equal opportunity for everyone. this country was built by immigrants from other countries, how dare you suggest that only American kids receive financial support from the USTA, blah blah blah" ;)

Also it seems some people that are naive to the reality that there are quite a few for profit and non-profit organizations that employ people that have seven figure and even eight figure compensation packages. People don't just stumble into these jobs or respond to a job posting on Craigslist. Obviously they must have a fairly impressive skill set that meets the needs of the organization they work for.
If anyone thinks they can do as good a job or better than Arlen Kantarian then polish up your resume and send it off to the USTA. I'm sure they would love to hear from you.

JoelDali
11-24-2009, 09:59 AM
Eh, I'll stick to garbage collecting.

Topaz
11-24-2009, 10:05 AM
Topaz,

I have been a member for @ least 10 years and have not played USTA League Tennis or Tourneys in about 15 years. There are other reasons I am a member. BTW.. the USTA is very top heavy and a very large percentage of the work done by the USTA is done by vols and CTAs. Without the CTAs and vols the USTA would get almost nothing done. I could play 7 days a week if my body could take the beating without the USTA.

Steve

Agree...our local coordinator works her behind off, and without her, we'd all be sunk!

I know I wouldn't get as much tennis without the USTA...not unless I didn't have to work. Then I wouldn't need them, but since those lottery people haven't come knocking on my door yet, the leagues and opportunities the USTA leagues provide in my area provide all of my competitive play. And, I think it is pretty cheap!

SteveI
11-24-2009, 10:25 AM
Agree...our local coordinator works her behind off, and without her, we'd all be sunk!

I know I wouldn't get as much tennis without the USTA...not unless I didn't have to work. Then I wouldn't need them, but since those lottery people haven't come knocking on my door yet, the leagues and opportunities the USTA leagues provide in my area provide all of my competitive play. And, I think it is pretty cheap!

The bottom line is that the USTA does filter money down to the lower levels of tennis and grassroots programs.. but nowhere near enough. A few years ago they had a program going to support "Tennis in the Parks". The total budget was something like 1 million for the entire USA. The whole program consisted of USTA marketing info that could be handed out when you ran a summer rec tennis program.. flyers.. CDs.. etc. Very little money for balls. rackets, staff, training..pretty much a complete joke. They also had another program, USA wide that helped fix tennis courts that were in need of repair.. again..very little cash. Think the bottom line there was like a max 10% of the total repair cost. The USTA in general does very little "real" work and very little to support the lower ends (grass roots) of tennis compared to their total budget. 9M to their CEO.. Yikes..but expected. I also know what our local USTA reps/staff make.. and they work very hard for very little money. 9M to the CEO.. hummm..

Are they growing the game??? I would have see those numbers and how they came up with them. I think it is smoke and mirrors.

Steve

ebrainsoft
11-24-2009, 10:25 AM
Agree...our local coordinator works her behind off, and without her, we'd all be sunk!

I know I wouldn't get as much tennis without the USTA...not unless I didn't have to work. Then I wouldn't need them, but since those lottery people haven't come knocking on my door yet, the leagues and opportunities the USTA leagues provide in my area provide all of my competitive play. And, I think it is pretty cheap!

Yes, the local coordinators and volunteers do a GREAT job but why does the USTA pay $9M to Arlen Kantarian??? :confused:

SteveI
11-24-2009, 10:27 AM
Yes, the local coordinators and volunteers do a GREAT job but why does the USTA pay $9M to Arlen Kantarian??? :confused:


Yes.. that is the question. I guess because the USA has so many up and coming Pros both on the mens and ladies side. :-)

ebrainsoft
11-24-2009, 10:31 AM
Does anyone know if Arlen Kantarian even plays tennis???:-?

Topaz
11-24-2009, 10:33 AM
The bottom line is that the USTA does filter money down to the lower levels of tennis and grassroots programs.. but nowhere near enough. A few years ago they had a program going to support "Tennis in the Parks". The total budget was something like 1 million for the entire USA. The whole program consisted of USTA marketing info that could be handed out when you ran a summer rec tennis program.. flyers.. CDs.. etc. Very little money for balls. rackets, staff, training..pretty much a complete joke. They also had another program, USA wide that helped fix tennis courts that were in need of repair.. again..very little cash. Think the bottom line there was like a max 10% of the total repair cost. The USTA in general does very little "real" work and very little to support the lower ends (grass roots) of tennis compared to their total budget. 9M to their CEO.. Yikes..but expected. I also know what our local USTA reps/staff make.. and they work very hard for very little money. 9M to the CEO.. hummm..

Are they growing the game??? I would have see those numbers and how they came up with them. I think it is smoke and mirrors.

Steve

I've never looked into it myself, so I can't speculate...I live in a pretty affluent area, and the courts and facilities here are well kept. If I cross the river into DC I'm not sure I would see the same. The Washinton Tennis and Education Fund sends me a lot of invites to fundraising balls and such, but I can never afford the extravagant ticket price!

Yes, the local coordinators and volunteers do a GREAT job but why does the USTA pay $9M to Arlen Kantarian??? :confused:

I wasn't really addressing this...more replying to those who think we'd be better off without the USTA.

Sadly, we see this all the time....grossly overpaid CEO's/chiefs...this isn't just an issue in the USTA.

raiden031
11-24-2009, 10:41 AM
Usually that money goes to "Tennis Education Foundations".

(other charity's which like I said usually involve a couple or a small group which are pretty well off themselves)

That's how the USTA gets away with being non-profit. All they have to do is give a certain amount of their profits to these other charities and they get to keep non-profit status.

(they are still a private entity which can pay it's staff whatever it sees fit)

So if the members like me donate to this charity, that is less the organization itself has to donate and more for the CEO's paycheck. No thanks.

SteveI
11-24-2009, 10:41 AM
I've never looked into it myself, so I can't speculate...I live in a pretty affluent area, and the courts and facilities here are well kept. If I cross the river into DC I'm not sure I would see the same. The Washinton Tennis and Education Fund sends me a lot of invites to fundraising balls and such, but I can never afford the extravagant ticket price!



I wasn't really addressing this...more replying to those who think we'd be better off without the USTA.

Sadly, we see this all the time....grossly overpaid CEO's/chiefs...this isn't just an issue in the USTA.

The USTA "talks the talk".. but does not "walk the walk" supporting tennis anywhere near the level they could if the org was not so top heavy. As you say... not just the USTA..sorry to say. Work as a vol.. or join a CTA.. run a grassroots program and your eyes will be wide open.

Thanks for the great insights.

Steve

SteveI
11-24-2009, 10:45 AM
So if the members like me donate to this charity, that is less the organization itself has to donate and more for the CEO's paycheck. No thanks.

Of course...overhead! If you want to make a difference growing the game.. teach a few kids in your area how to play... donate a frame.. restring a few frames for free..etc Donate your time to help coach a HS team... or run a Junior Team Team program or team. Thats how you grow the game.

Steve

Topaz
11-24-2009, 10:53 AM
^^^along with another TTW member, we did set up an after-school tennis program at my school last fall. And the local Y has a great indoor after-school tennis program as well. However, again, I think my area may be more of an exception rather than the rule.

SteveI
11-24-2009, 11:35 AM
^^^along with another TTW member, we did set up an after-school tennis program at my school last fall. And the local Y has a great indoor after-school tennis program as well. However, again, I think my area may be more of an exception rather than the rule.

Topaz,

Nice work. The USTA does a have "Schools Program" that will send a USTA Trainer to teach your staff how to run a tennis unit in their phys ed class and also how help run an afterschool program. BTW.. you can get a small USTA JTF or JFT grant ( .. humm not sure which one) to help support your efforts. If you can get some cash buy some Quick Start equipment that is really great. Just ask your USTA rep. Don't expect to get paid...LOL..just enjoy teaching the kids. Your pay will be their desire and pleasure.

Great to hear you love to give back.. now thats how you grow the game. The best part is that you are creating future hitting partners.. what until they grow up..come back and run you all over the court..

Have a great day.
I think I might have to send you some x-mas cookies for your efforts.

Steve

Topaz
11-24-2009, 11:40 AM
Topaz,

Nice work. The USTA does a have "Schools Program" that will send a USTA Trainer to teach your staff how to run a tennis unit in their phys ed class and also how help run an afterschool program. BTW.. you can get a small USTA JTF or JFT grant ( .. humm not sure which one) to help support your efforts. If you can get some cash buy some Quick Start equipment that is really great. Just ask your USTA rep. Don't expect to get paid...LOL..just enjoy teaching the kids. Your pay will be their desire and pleasure.

Great to hear you love to give back.. now thats how you grow the game. The best part is that you are creating future hitting partners.. what until they grow up..come back and run you all over the court..

Have a great day.
I think I might have to send you some x-mas cookies for your efforts.

Steve

hahaha, and here I am online looking up pumpkin oatmeal cookie recipes!

You know, our PE teachers have the equipment...junior racquets and such, but no surface (or court) at our school. The after school program that I helped MrHan (doesn't post much) arrange used a court that was just down the street. But for PE purposes, it would have to be at the school...I wonder why we have all that equipment (literally, a rack of rackets!)...I'll have to ask the teachers if they ever did use them, and how.

We had a tennis unit when I was in HS PE, and I LOVED it...it was usually only 2 days at most though. Maybe that's why our HS team was so baaaaaad! Lol, but we had fun!

tennismom42
11-24-2009, 11:42 AM
Did he have a private jet too?actually the article said it was a CONTRACT with a set ending time. Therefore, I am left wondering if he was a consultant and responsibile for paying his own expenses? If so, then $9 million only sounds a little bit rediculous, instead of grossly rediculous.

SteveI
11-24-2009, 11:44 AM
I didn't see this posted anywhere else:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news;_ylt=AtZvnJq9HfJDWiCEc4zkOHc4v7YF?slug=ap-usopen-kantariancompensation&prov=ap&type=lgns

Could the timing of the release be any worse for the USTA? Time for renewals...

I just got this:

No. 199-2009
U.S. TENNIS PARTICIPATION TOPS 30 MILLION PEOPLE
FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MORE THAN 25 YEARS
2009 USTA/Tennis Industry Association (TIA) Study Shows Growth
In All Age Groups and Ethnicities

Participation up 12% vs. 2008 and 25% since 2003

WHITE PLAINS, N.Y., November 17, 2009 – The USTA and TIA announced today that tennis
participation in the United States topped 30 million players for the first time in more than two
decades. The annual survey of 6,000 Americans showed that tennis participation grew in all
age groups under the age of 50 and within all ethnicities. With 30.1 million people hitting the
courts, tennis participation has grown 12% over 2008 and climbed 25% since 2003. The survey
is conducted annually by the Taylor Research Group on behalf of the Tennis Industry
Association (TIA) and the USTA.

New players comprised 7.1 million of the total, and the majority of tennis players consider
themselves “regular players” (14.8 million). Though 15 of the 17 USTA sections were affected
by record rainfall in the spring, total play occasions surpassed 560 million for only the second
time in more than 20 years. The greatest percentage growth in participation was in players 1217 which grew from 15.7% of the total participants in 2008 to 20.5% of the participants in 2009.

“The USTA continues to work closely with the entire tennis industry to grow our game, and we
are extremely gratified that our collective efforts have generated such strong growth,” said Lucy

S. Garvin, USTA President and Chairman of the Board. “We continue to strive to make tennis
easier to learn and more fun to play, and this commitment has led to millions of more Americans
playing the game. I am proud of our network of sections, states/districts, and community
programs who have worked so hard to increase participation.”
“Over the past several years, we’ve strived to make the game more accessible, particularly at
parks and schools across the country,” said Kurt Kamperman, Chief Executive, Community
Tennis, USTA. “Combine this with the health benefits of tennis, and you get surging interest in
the sport.”

“The TIA (industry) and the USTA have been focused on growing participation since the mid 90s
and this is the result of a consistent and sustained effort that is now paying dividends,” said TIA
President Jon Muir. “Our ongoing challenge is to continue to build our frequent player base, the
economic lifeline for the sport.”

The TIA/USTA survey results include:

• Total participation broke the 30 million mark in 2009 (a 12% increase to 30.1
million, against 26.9 million in 2008).
• New players reached 7.1 million (up 19.5% from 5.9 million in 2008).
• Regular Players, those playing 4 to 20 times per year, increased 26% to 14.8
million players in 2009.

-2

• Participation in 2009 is up in every major ethnic group, but especially among
African Americans (+19%) and Hispanics (+32%)
• Age groups comprising the greatest percentage of players are:
o 12-17 years at 20.5% of the total (more than 6 million players)
o 18-24 years at18.4% of the total (more than 5.5 million players)
o 6-11 years at 16.25% of the total (4.9 million players)
• Tennis is doing a better job at retention with continuing players up 6.3% to 16
million
• Former players rejoining to the game is up for the third year in a row, with nearly
7 million coming back to tennis
The TIA/USTA results compare favorably to other recent research released from industry
organizations over the past 12 months. In the 2009 Sports and Fitness Participation Report
conducted by the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association (SGMA), results showed tennis
was the only traditional sport to enjoy growth in grassroots participation.

###

About the USTA

The USTA is the national governing body for the sport of tennis in the U.S. and the leader in promoting and
developing the growth of tennis at every level --from local communities to the highest level of the professional game.
A not-for-profit organization with 730,000 members, it invests 100% of its proceeds in growing the game. It owns and
operates the US Open, the highest attended annual sporting event in the world, and launched the Olympus US Open
Series linking 10 summer tournaments to the US Open. In addition, it owns the 94 Pro Circuit events throughout the
U.S., is a minority owner and promotional partner of World TeamTennis, and selects the teams for the Davis Cup,
Fed Cup, Olympic and Paralympic Games. The USTA philanthropic entity, USTA Serves, provides grants and
scholarships and through tennis, helps underserved youth and people with disabilities to improve academics, build
character and strive for excellence. For more information on the USTA, log on to usta.com.

About the TIA

The Tennis Industry Association, the not-for-profit trade association for tennis, is THE unifying force in the tennis
industry bringing together competitive companies to work collectively to promote and grow the sport. The TIA works
closely with the USTA and industry partners to develop and implement initiatives to increase tennis participation.
Core TIA activities include Participation Research, Consumer and Trade Research and the Growing Tennis System.
For more information, please visit TennisIndustry.org or GrowingTennis.com.

For more information, contact:

Tim Curry, Director, Corporate Communications, USTA – (914) 696-7077; curry@usta.com
Jolyn de Boer, Executive Director, TIA – (843) 686-3036 ext. 222; jolyn@tennisindustry.org



kylebarendrick
11-24-2009, 01:51 PM
Who wants to grow the game? That would only make it even harder to find open courts!

Humbug

SteveI
11-25-2009, 01:12 AM
Who wants to grow the game? That would only make it even harder to find open courts!

Humbug

Not hard to find here. I have not waited to play on public courts since 1975.

Steve

raiden031
11-25-2009, 03:40 AM
Who wants to grow the game? That would only make it even harder to find open courts!

Humbug

Thats kinda how I see it. In my area there are lots of outdoor courts, both public and private, but the demand for these courts far outnumbers the supply. We need to either lose some players or build more courts. Indoor courts here are really scarce though. The only way you can really find indoor court time is to play in USTA leagues or to rent block time for the season. If you're lucky maybe you can find an empty slot if you call them up a week in advance.

But I guess with the growth of the game comes construction of more tennis courts. As long as supply is adequate for the demand I don't mind the growth, but so far supply has fallen behind in areas like mine.

Topaz
11-25-2009, 07:22 AM
Maybe availability of local, public courts (and their condition) is a good way to informally assess the 'state of tennis' in your local area...like I said before, I think my area is the exception rather than the rule.

papatenis
11-25-2009, 08:43 AM
Thats kinda how I see it. In my area there are lots of outdoor courts, both public and private, but the demand for these courts far outnumbers the supply. We need to either lose some players or build more courts. Indoor courts here are really scarce though. The only way you can really find indoor court time is to play in USTA leagues or to rent block time for the season. If you're lucky maybe you can find an empty slot if you call them up a week in advance.

But I guess with the growth of the game comes construction of more tennis courts. As long as supply is adequate for the demand I don't mind the growth, but so far supply has fallen behind in areas like mine.

What part of the country do you play in?

JRstriker12
11-25-2009, 09:03 AM
Thats kinda how I see it. In my area there are lots of outdoor courts, both public and private, but the demand for these courts far outnumbers the supply. We need to either lose some players or build more courts. Indoor courts here are really scarce though. The only way you can really find indoor court time is to play in USTA leagues or to rent block time for the season. If you're lucky maybe you can find an empty slot if you call them up a week in advance.

But I guess with the growth of the game comes construction of more tennis courts. As long as supply is adequate for the demand I don't mind the growth, but so far supply has fallen behind in areas like mine.

Maybe availability of local, public courts (and their condition) is a good way to informally assess the 'state of tennis' in your local area...like I said before, I think my area is the exception rather than the rule.


True - courts are very scarce in prime tennis season. You either have to pay to reserve courts or play early/late. Even when I paid to join the Reston Tennis Association, those courts are so popular, the memebrship fee was almost a waste.

IMHO - If there is a growth in tennis and we want more public courts, then tennis players need to be more vocal with local gov. We ran into this problem when I used to capt a coed soccer team. In our county, most of the money for new rec facilities went to softball, which was the most popular sport, but soccer is also very popular and the fields were always in bad shape and overused. Soccer players needed to show up at county meetings and let the gov know there was some demand for new fields. The league cordinator was also very active in advocating for new soccer facilites. In the end, our county coverted several horrible grass fields to synthetic grass to allow more teams to play in safe conditions. I think they also were considering building more fields.

Tennis may need to do something similar, problem is - tennis being an very individual sport - we aren't organized and also tennis is pretty expensive in terms of the number of people a new court supports.

papatenis
11-25-2009, 09:06 AM
True - courts are very scarce in prime tennis season. You either have to pay to reserve courts or play early/late. Even when I paid to join the Reston Tennis Association, those courts are so popular, the memebrship fee was almost a waste.

IMHO - If there is a growth in tennis and we want more public courts, then tennis players need to be more vocal with local gov. We ran into this problem when I used to capt a coed soccer team. In our county, most of the money for new rec facilities went to softball, which was the most popular sport, but soccer is also very popular and the fields were always in bad shape and overused. Soccer players needed to show up at county meetings and let the gov know there was some demand for new fields. The league cordinator was also very active in advocating for new soccer facilites. In the end, our county coverted several horrible grass fields to synthetic grass to allow more teams to play in safe conditions. I think they also were considering building more fields.

Tennis may need to do something similar, problem is - tennis being an very individual sport - we aren't organized and also tennis is pretty expensive in terms of the number of people a new court supports.

Try contacting the USTA and see what they say.

JRstriker12
11-25-2009, 09:38 AM
Try contacting the USTA and see what they say.

USTA has nothing to do with getting public courts in our local (mostly affluent) area - just like the US Soccer Federation had nothing to do with getting more soccer fields locally.

papatenis
11-25-2009, 09:44 AM
USTA has nothing to do with getting public courts in our local (mostly affluent) area - just like the US Soccer Federation had nothing to do with getting more soccer fields locally.

Have you every heard the USTA slogan "grow tennis" tell me how do you do that without courts?

JRstriker12
11-25-2009, 10:08 AM
Have you every heard the USTA slogan "grow tennis" tell me how do you do that without courts?

My point is that the money for local public courts in MY area would usually come from either city or county governement (i.e. city or county parks).

I'm not saying that USTA would not fund contruction of courts in some areas (poorer areas, schools, etc) but in my area where a lot of people pay to join and play at private clubs, I don't think the USTA would be interested in paying to build courts.

As for growing tennis, a lot of that moeny go towards coaching and development of junior players and marking the sport and the US Open - very little of it goes toward adult/recreational activies.

raiden031
11-25-2009, 10:11 AM
True - courts are very scarce in prime tennis season. You either have to pay to reserve courts or play early/late. Even when I paid to join the Reston Tennis Association, those courts are so popular, the memebrship fee was almost a waste.

IMHO - If there is a growth in tennis and we want more public courts, then tennis players need to be more vocal with local gov. We ran into this problem when I used to capt a coed soccer team. In our county, most of the money for new rec facilities went to softball, which was the most popular sport, but soccer is also very popular and the fields were always in bad shape and overused. Soccer players needed to show up at county meetings and let the gov know there was some demand for new fields. The league cordinator was also very active in advocating for new soccer facilites. In the end, our county coverted several horrible grass fields to synthetic grass to allow more teams to play in safe conditions. I think they also were considering building more fields.

Tennis may need to do something similar, problem is - tennis being an very individual sport - we aren't organized and also tennis is pretty expensive in terms of the number of people a new court supports.

My county is luckily planning to address the problem I mentioned with this:

http://www.troyparktennis.com/index.php

What part of the country do you play in?

Maryland.

JRstriker12
11-25-2009, 10:25 AM
My county is luckily planning to address the problem I mentioned with this:

http://www.troyparktennis.com/index.php



Maryland.

OH!!!! I'm SO green with envy.......

"18 outdoor lighted tennis courts, 11 indoor tennis courts, a clubhouse and an 8,000 seat multi-use stadium."

West Coast Ace
11-26-2009, 01:42 PM
I just got this: And your point? I hope not that Arlen was responsible and thus deserves this silly compensation.

A few points:

Those who are comparing this to 'corporate greed' miss the point. It's a non-profit and thus people expect that most of their money goes to the programs, not into already rich folks pockets.

The 'they can do whatever they want with the money' also misses the point. As others have pointed out the local people are doing the heavy lifting in making tennis participation successful. Sure, those of us who don't like it could refuse. Problem is that severely limits one's ability to play in tournaments.

They may bring in more $$$$ at the US Open - but only because of the volunteers. Without them - no tournament.

ttbrowne
11-26-2009, 02:19 PM
That's more than Fernando Gonzalez has made in prize money!

Cindysphinx
11-26-2009, 03:59 PM
I paid for a 5-year USTA membership, and I think it is the best deal in town. My experiences with USTA have been 99%+ positive.

If they are overpaying their CEO or should be spending their money in other ways, I do not care.

If I could change one thing, I would change Tennis magazine to be a magazine about tennis.

JavierLW
11-26-2009, 04:07 PM
It's a non-profit and thus people expect that most of their money goes to the programs, not into already rich folks pockets.



Who's to say that "MOST" of the money isnt going to programs rather then rich folks pockets?

Just because 9 Million dollars seems like a lot to you means that it's MOST of the money.

This is why we'll always attribute this sort of complaining to the usual cry about corporate greed.

Especially when it's associated with the layperson's general understanding of what "non-profit" really means....

Face it, most of the people complaining dont know what they are talking about. They want to believe that somehow the program is not functioning, and even if someone posts some facts about the actual numbers, they will still pooh pooh it. (like you have)

And sure, what else do you want to attribute those numbers too? The USTA is usually run by a bunch of people who are not professionals and do not have proper vision or business skills.

They finally start to invest in that and they actually pull up some good numbers but people want to cry about what the CEO is making. (all because they themselves are greedy and "it seems like an awful lot")

JavierLW
11-26-2009, 04:45 PM
Have you every heard the USTA slogan "grow tennis" tell me how do you do that without courts?

Tennis Courts (a decent one) cost around 30K to 50K to build. (excluding permits, maintenance, etc....)

So for the CEO's salary you could build about 180 courts, that's hardly anything.

So if you're trying to connect the CEO's salary to some sort of "court shortage" problem, that's silly, they dont make nearly enough money to get into the tennis court building business.

It's funny, in your area courts are full, you complain that the USTA is not building you tennis courts.

In other areas, there are plenty of courts, enough for everyone, but some other people are crying that it's all the USTA's fault for not getting enough people to fill all of their courts. (as if they'd would be personally happier if they saw them full)

Complain, complain, complain, complain......

If you want tennis courts, move somewhere else where they have tennis courts, take some responsibility for yourself for a change instead of finding every reason you can to blame your plight on someone else.

SteveI
11-27-2009, 01:58 AM
And your point? I hope not that Arlen was responsible and thus deserves this silly compensation.

A few points:

Those who are comparing this to 'corporate greed' miss the point. It's a non-profit and thus people expect that most of their money goes to the programs, not into already rich folks pockets.

The 'they can do whatever they want with the money' also misses the point. As others have pointed out the local people are doing the heavy lifting in making tennis participation successful. Sure, those of us who don't like it could refuse. Problem is that severely limits one's ability to play in tournaments.

They may bring in more $$$$ at the US Open - but only because of the volunteers. Without them - no tournament.

I had no point.. I was just posting the info for general information.

My points are..

1) The CEO is overpaid
2) The USTA does little to really grow tennis compared to how much money they take in. They could do much better.
3) You can play plenty of good tennis without the USTA.
4) Tennis is not really growing in the US, just the reverse IMHO. Poker is doing better.
5) The US is losing ground each year to other countries with less population.
6) In general, the USTA does a bad job at what is it telling you it is doing. I think the USTA does just fine at what they know they are doing.
7) Without volunteers and CTAs.. there is no USTA.

FlyingBoat
12-01-2009, 09:42 PM
I never did appreciate paying for overpriced USTA leagues and tournaments. Some people have more money to spend than others and don't mind paying double or triple the cost or more. Now I know where all this money is going. It is infuriating. People have asked me to join their USTA leagues and I have flatly refused. Its sick we need to pay more to go USTA just so the exec can pull in $9M.

I always look for alternative lower cost options. I guess I am not at a level that I can't find people to play who can still beat me. I don't mind and would prefer more organization, such as what the USTA can provide, but it is outrageous to pay $40 for a tournament when there are similar ones run for $5 just so it can have the USTA sanctioned name.

They should have paid this guy $150K and cut their costs down, and then we may actually see growth in tennis.

The rest of you, go ahead and keep paying your dues so the execs can get their millions. Hopefully the USTA will die out and free up court time for people who want to play instead of paying millions to executives and whatever else they waste their money on.

vandre
12-03-2009, 09:49 AM
If you want a well run business and you want to invest in your professional staff as they said, that's their business.

so you're saying the usta is well run? what section have you dealt with? can i move there? i have yet to meet a coordinator who knows their nose from a buttcap!

in a more recent post, you mention the cost of building courts, but what about maintaining existing courts? there are about 20 courts in my town that have been neglected for years. surely those could be fixed up for less than 30-50k a crack.

JRstriker12
12-03-2009, 10:03 AM
so you're saying the usta is well run? what section have you dealt with? can i move there? i have yet to meet a coordinator who knows their nose from a buttcap!

in a more recent post, you mention the cost of building courts, but what about maintaining existing courts? there are about 20 courts in my town that have been neglected for years. surely those could be fixed up for less than 30-50k a crack.

Assuming that these courts are owned by your town or county, shouldn't you local goverment have the responsibility for upkeep of those courts? Isn't that why you pay local taxes?

Have you contacted the gov organization that owns the courts and asked why no one has repaired the courts?

FlyingBoat
12-04-2009, 07:09 PM
“Revenue at the USTA is up $93 million between 2000 and 2008"

Ya, way to go Arlen. What did you do, negotiate higher payments from the networks and higher ticket prices? Is that why my cable bill is going up? Terrific.

Fill the pockets of those who cost us more. What a sham, and so many of you defend it. Sick really.

JoelDali
12-05-2009, 12:02 PM
“Revenue at the USTA is up $93 million between 2000 and 2008"

Ya, way to go Arlen. What did you do, negotiate higher payments from the networks and higher ticket prices? Is that why my cable bill is going up? Terrific.

Fill the pockets of those who cost us more. What a sham, and so many of you defend it. Sick really.

Arlen has done more for the game than anyone I know.

:)

$9 million is not that much for most CEO pig types.

sureshs
12-05-2009, 12:17 PM
There was an article in the WSJ last week which was an opinion that executive bonuses and stock options be abolished alltogether. If they wanted to profit from the company's success, let them spend their own money and buy shares, like any other shareholder. As far as the argument that then the best people will go elsewhere, it is a valid one. But they will have nowhere to go if all firms implement this. The advantage is that only executives interested in the long-term good of the company, which involves customers, employees, vendors, shareholders and the community at large, will ask for these positions. Right now, short-term gains are what they are rewarded for by bonuses, and so short-term gains are what they pursue. They layoff people at the slightest pretext, try to cheat the government, do the minimal environmental thing they can get away with, etc etc.

Steady Eddy
12-06-2009, 09:13 AM
There was an article in the WSJ last week which was an opinion that executive bonuses and stock options be abolished alltogether. If they wanted to profit from the company's success, let them spend their own money and buy shares, like any other shareholder. As far as the argument that then the best people will go elsewhere, it is a valid one. But they will have nowhere to go if all firms implement this. The advantage is that only executives interested in the long-term good of the company, which involves customers, employees, vendors, shareholders and the community at large, will ask for these positions. Right now, short-term gains are what they are rewarded for by bonuses, and so short-term gains are what they pursue. They layoff people at the slightest pretext, try to cheat the government, do the minimal environmental thing they can get away with, etc etc.I like these ideas.

BreakPoint
12-06-2009, 07:22 PM
That might be true but what is your source? I believe membership, league, tournament fees,etc. generate a pretty decent percentage of their revenue and probably more then you think. Almost all this work is done on the local level too and by people who are probably working for free.

Anyways, I just think a lot of people would like to believe that the USTA does it for the love of the game and not the love of money. Does he deserve that much money for his work? Probably not even close to that.
But does any CEO? Most CEO's make millions of dollars, so if you want a good one then that's what you have to pay.

BTW, "non-profit" just means that they don't show a profit on the bottom line at the end of the year. What better way to make sure no money is left at the end of the year than by giving a bonus to the CEO? :)

Lakers4Life
12-06-2009, 08:13 PM
But does any CEO? Most CEO's make millions of dollars, so if you want a good one then that's what you have to pay.

BTW, "non-profit" just means that they don't show a profit on the bottom line at the end of the year. What better way to make sure no money is left at the end of the year than by giving a bonus to the CEO? :)

I know of a few "non-profit" or "Not-for-Profit" organizations. Though their goal is to help the unfortunate and under privileged, the directors and CEOs take a nice chunk of the money they receive. Also they spend gross amounts of money on fund raisers to fill their pockets even more. At the same time most of the employees are volunteers, whom they don't pay.

Hmmm...it's time for me to start a non-profit org., like "Feed the Chipmonks Org."

zapvor
12-07-2009, 04:55 AM
i think the usta has really good intentions and they are doing more good than wrong. its just that the oirganization in place is fairly cemented in tradition i think. i agree volunteers play a big part in its success.

PatrickB
12-07-2009, 04:57 AM
But does any CEO? Most CEO's make millions of dollars, so if you want a good one then that's what you have to pay.

But the issue is how much benefit you get from a CEO for the cost you pay. I'm not convinced that the marginal benefit you get from hiring a $5,000,000/yr CEO (or football coach) instead of a $500,000/yr one is worth it in most cases.

JRstriker12
12-07-2009, 06:03 AM
“Revenue at the USTA is up $93 million between 2000 and 2008"

Ya, way to go Arlen. What did you do, negotiate higher payments from the networks and higher ticket prices? Is that why my cable bill is going up? Terrific.

Fill the pockets of those who cost us more. What a sham, and so many of you defend it. Sick really.


LOL!

I guess you would have given him a glowing review if he LOST $93 million between 2000 and 2008???

You may not like his salary, but at least he hasn't run the USTA into the ground then jumped off the burning wreck with a multi-million dollar golden parachute.

Sounds like he's worth the money the USTA spent.

vandre
12-07-2009, 08:06 AM
Assuming that these courts are owned by your town or county, shouldn't you local goverment have the responsibility for upkeep of those courts? Isn't that why you pay local taxes?

Have you contacted the gov organization that owns the courts and asked why no one has repaired the courts?

yeah, sorry for the nonsequetion (i dunno if that's a word, but i like it). i was thinking of info in my head that i didn't post so that's kinda why it didn't make sense i guess.

i crashed a usta section meeting/ cabal/ whatever they're called. they were talking about ways to get more innercity youth invovled in tennis. their solution was to pass out one pass to the high priced racquetclub that the kid would have to get a ride to (or drive if the kid could drive and has a car). i butted heads with them saying you'd get more than one kid to pick up the game if you would repair these neighborhood courts (which they could walk or bike to) a little instead of trying to subsidize the private racquet club that doesn't need any help to make fat bank. needless to say, that was the last usta meeting i went to. :twisted:

it seems like if they were serious about getting innercity youth involved in tennis, they would get more mileage out of patching and putting new nets on the neighborhood courts (which is all most of them need) than passing out a single pass to one youth who might not even be able to get to the daggone racquetclub and sure as sunshine would never be welcomed there!

as for the tax dollars, man, i've tried that before. my wife and i own a house and we paid in excess of $500 to the park district this past year and we plan on that going up next year. on top of that, the park district wants to charge me around $80 for a summer to play on the only decent courts in town (i'll never forget the look on that poor high school kid's face when i told him what i thought of the park district :twisted:) so what i'm saying is that the "i pay taxes" line doesn't even get me onto the tennis courts that don't need repaired so i don't think it will cover the ones that do.

sureshs
12-07-2009, 08:16 AM
I am willing to be the CEO of USTA for just $500K a year, no bonuses needed.

sureshs
12-07-2009, 08:17 AM
But the issue is how much benefit you get from a CEO for the cost you pay. I'm not convinced that the marginal benefit you get from hiring a $5,000,000/yr CEO (or football coach) instead of a $500,000/yr one is worth it in most cases.

Very well put.

vandre
12-07-2009, 08:18 AM
I am willing to be the CEO of USTA for just $500K a year, no bonuses needed.

hey, i'll vote for you or whatever. i used to work for the government and if they can send me into the field with the cheapest gear they can find, i don't know why the usta can't be run by the lowest bidder! :twisted:

JRstriker12
12-07-2009, 08:26 AM
yeah, sorry for the nonsequetion (i dunno if that's a word, but i like it). i was thinking of info in my head that i didn't post so that's kinda why it didn't make sense i guess.

i crashed a usta section meeting/ cabal/ whatever they're called. they were talking about ways to get more innercity youth invovled in tennis. their solution was to pass out one pass to the high priced racquetclub that the kid would have to get a ride to (or drive if the kid could drive and has a car). i butted heads with them saying you'd get more than one kid to pick up the game if you would repair these neighborhood courts (which they could walk or bike to) a little instead of trying to subsidize the private racquet club that doesn't need any help to make fat bank. needless to say, that was the last usta meeting i went to. :twisted:

it seems like if they were serious about getting innercity youth involved in tennis, they would get more mileage out of patching and putting new nets on the neighborhood courts (which is all most of them need) than passing out a single pass to one youth who might not even be able to get to the daggone racquetclub and sure as sunshine would never be welcomed there!

as for the tax dollars, man, i've tried that before. my wife and i own a house and we paid in excess of $500 to the park district this past year and we plan on that going up next year. on top of that, the park district wants to charge me around $80 for a summer to play on the only decent courts in town (i'll never forget the look on that poor high school kid's face when i told him what i thought of the park district :twisted:) so what i'm saying is that the "i pay taxes" line doesn't even get me onto the tennis courts that don't need repaired so i don't think it will cover the ones that do.


I'm not against inter-city outreach, but yeah, it has to be done in the right way. A lot of sporting operations work on this "unfound talent in the Ghetto" myth... honestly, no public tennis program is going to produce a pro player without tons of coaching and support.

Bummer about the local gov screwing you over on the courts. Sounds like they either want a new line of revenue or they feel that there aren;t enough people who use the courts to make repairs worth while. I did some searching around and USTA does offer grants for court maintenance and repair, but there are conditions for the award. I found the story of one court that got two grants from the USTA for a total of about $65,000 - but that was really small change as more than about $90,000 came from fund raising and private contributions, and another large chunk of change came from local gov.

You can check out some of the program results here: http://thebigserve.usta.com/stories/

Seems like a lot of these courts also support some sort of youth programs and teaching in additon to just being park facilities.
Bummer...

vandre
12-07-2009, 09:41 AM
thanks man! i'll look into that!

you're right, there's a ton of work and coaching that goes into a pro player, but there could be some kids that play in jrs and even work their way up to being college players. heck, if there are some kids (any kids) that took up the game and liked it so much they played it for the rest of there lives, i'd take that!

thanks again for the link!

BreakPoint
12-07-2009, 05:37 PM
But the issue is how much benefit you get from a CEO for the cost you pay. I'm not convinced that the marginal benefit you get from hiring a $5,000,000/yr CEO (or football coach) instead of a $500,000/yr one is worth it in most cases.
But you're not the one that these CEO's or football coaches need to convince. They only need to convince the board of directors or whomever is in charge of making the hiring decision.

For example, is a CEO worth $10 million a year if he increased the market value of the company by $140 billion in the past 5 years?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/5-CEOs-Who-Are-Worth-Their-usnews-1162654561.html?x=0&mod=career-work

Tim Tennis
12-15-2009, 09:00 AM
There was an article in the WSJ last week which was an opinion that executive bonuses and stock options be abolished alltogether. If they wanted to profit from the company's success, let them spend their own money and buy shares, like any other shareholder. As far as the argument that then the best people will go elsewhere, it is a valid one. But they will have nowhere to go if all firms implement this. The advantage is that only executives interested in the long-term good of the company, which involves customers, employees, vendors, shareholders and the community at large, will ask for these positions. Right now, short-term gains are what they are rewarded for by bonuses, and so short-term gains are what they pursue. They layoff people at the slightest pretext, try to cheat the government, do the minimal environmental thing they can get away with, etc etc.

I agree with you. The one thing I take exception to is your statement, "As far as the argument that then the best people will go elsewhere, it is a valid one." They want you to believe this threat but think a little deeper. If the CEO is making $9 mil and they want to cut his pay to $1 mil., poor guy, is another firm going to fire their $1 mil. guy doing as far as they know a pretty good job and give it to a another guy and pay him $9 mil? I don't think so. Also remember this 1 mil guy already has his board in his pocket.

Wow, $9,000,000 a year. That is ridiculous. There should be strict limits on executive compensation on any charitable or non profit organization. Bonuses, bonuses for what, doing your job. Your bonus is you get to keep your job if you meet the expectations. Like the rest of the employees.

The problem is the good old boy network.. Who approves these salaries? Some kind of board, give me a break they are all in bed together. You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours. That is the problem with corporate America.. It is the fox keeping guard over the hen house. How do you think you get to be a member of the board? You are a team player. The system is broke.

Greed, greed, greed. It is like Bill Clinton, “I did it cause I could.” Here are some numbers to think about in 1970 the ratio of hourly pay to CEO’s was 1 to 45, now is up to 1 to 1400 what is wrong with this picture? Note: Not exact but close. I came across them a few days ago.

Here is some food for thought if a sprinter can run the 100 meters in 10 sec., and you pay him $100,000. Will he be able to run the 100 meters in 5 sec., if you pay him $200,000. I don’t think so. Yet the executives would like the have you believe the more you pay them the better job they will be able to do. It is amazing how many people buy into this.

I think anyone who volunteers for the USTA should quit. Oh that is right they will get their name in the magazine if they get voted the volunteer of the year, yippy skippy.

Best regards,

Ed
Tennis Geometrics

http://www.tennisgeometrics.com

sureshs
12-15-2009, 09:25 AM
I think anyone who volunteers for the USTA should quit.

I agree with that. The USTA is a quasi-government organization which receives government money. They should not give such obscene bonuses. I have long felt that "volunteerism" (promoted vigorously by all politicians to make people feel good) is not as beneficial as it is thought to be. In this case, the excess money from the CEO pay should have been spent to pay people for part-time work. In other cases, volunteerism hides the real intentions of the big players. A company which sponsors some activity related to volunteers may actually be using the publicity to shield itself against the environmental damage it is doing. A politician bent on cutting education funds will happily promote parent volunteers. There are so many naive people going around cleaning beaches and so on while being clueless how the real damage is inflicted and what they can do about it politically.

FlyingBoat
04-25-2010, 11:56 AM
LOL!

I guess you would have given him a glowing review if he LOST $93 million between 2000 and 2008???

You may not like his salary, but at least he hasn't run the USTA into the ground then jumped off the burning wreck with a multi-million dollar golden parachute.

Sounds like he's worth the money the USTA spent.

Where did that $93M come from? It came from you!

And your applauding him for it?

I don't know why you would rather play in a $40 tournament than a $5 tournament, but it takes all kinds I guess. The smart ones know how to find people like you and put $9M in their pockets by doing it. I guess we should applaud him for that.

I seriously hope one of the simple web sites could compete for organization and rating and could cause the USTA to compete at a reasonable price instead of paying their execs $9M.

Competition is the best way to improve anything. Now, an exec who came up with something that dropped prices to events, decreased playing rates, improved facilities, and increased the ease of finding teams and players, now that would be an exec worth $9M.

JRstriker12
04-25-2010, 12:28 PM
Where did that $93M come from? It came from you!

And your applauding him for it?

I don't know why you would rather play in a $40 tournament than a $5 tournament, but it takes all kinds I guess. The smart ones know how to find people like you and put $9M in their pockets by doing it. I guess we should applaud him for that.

I seriously hope one of the simple web sites could compete for organization and rating and could cause the USTA to compete at a reasonable price instead of paying their execs $9M.

Competition is the best way to improve anything. Now, an exec who came up with something that dropped prices to events, decreased playing rates, improved facilities, and increased the ease of finding teams and players, now that would be an exec worth $9M.

Holy Dead Thread Revival Batman!!!!!!!!

It took you nearly 4 months to respond????

BTW - No the $93 million figure came from YOU!

“Revenue at the USTA is up $93 million between 2000 and 2008"

Ya, way to go Arlen. What did you do, negotiate higher payments from the networks and higher ticket prices? Is that why my cable bill is going up? Terrific.

Fill the pockets of those who cost us more. What a sham, and so many of you defend it. Sick really.

FlyingBoat
05-10-2010, 09:43 AM
Holy Dead Thread Revival Batman!!!!!!!!

It took you nearly 4 months to respond????

BTW - No the $93 million figure came from YOU!

I am not talking about where the figure came from, but where the actual money came from. It came from you, people in the USTA, people paying for events, people paying for cable tennis channel, etc. We paid that money. Its nothing to applaud the exec for increasing! Do you cheer on your utility company execs when they increase their revenue by increasing their rates to you?

Just played a young guy last nite, who brought up out of the blue that he wished he hadn't joined the USTA. Many people don't have money to pay for fees when we can find organized matches for free. Or maybe we could pay $10 to join a team, but then of course, the exec couldn't make his $9M. The fees and paying this guy $9M are a detriment to tennis. It turns people off. Thankfully there are decent sites such as tennis-league.com and others where we can arrange tennis, as well as some people who spend a bit of time to put together teams and competition outside of the USTA.

JRstriker12
05-10-2010, 01:58 PM
I am not talking about where the figure came from, but where the actual money came from. It came from you, people in the USTA, people paying for events, people paying for cable tennis channel, etc. We paid that money. Its nothing to applaud the exec for increasing! Do you cheer on your utility company execs when they increase their revenue by increasing their rates to you?

Just played a young guy last nite, who brought up out of the blue that he wished he hadn't joined the USTA. Many people don't have money to pay for fees when we can find organized matches for free. Or maybe we could pay $10 to join a team, but then of course, the exec couldn't make his $9M. The fees and paying this guy $9M are a detriment to tennis. It turns people off. Thankfully there are decent sites such as tennis-league.com and others where we can arrange tennis, as well as some people who spend a bit of time to put together teams and competition outside of the USTA.

Last time I checked my USTA membership and costs for leagues haven't changed.

Most of the money comes the US Open, sponsorships and TV deals. Those are all things that are easy to avoid paying for if you don't like the USTA. Also, as you point out, you don't have to join the USTA either, so I don't see what your problem is.

If they guy was brought in to increase funding for USTA programs then he did the job and earned his pay. Seeing as USTA supports efforts to develop players, provides a service I like, and puts on a good grand slam, I have no problem with the organization increasing their funding.

Also, it's funny, cause I played a bunch of people last week and they all enjoyed USTA league and have played it for many years.

Some many not like it, that's fine too. I've played in both USTA and Non-USTA leagues at local clubs. Some cost more, some cost less. Some were good, some weren't.

I'm sure you'll have more to say, but I'm leaving it at that. We get it, you don't like USTA and how much they are paying the guy. I don't have any problem with it in particular.

markmdfw
05-10-2010, 03:09 PM
Not a fan of the fees, court fees, usta fee, league fees, team sign up fees, club membership fees, boat docking fees, parking fees. However, I also am not sure if the USTA is being run totally great! How many US players are competing in the top 100? Are we getting the most bang for our back, are we getting things to help us improve? Not sure! Just questions! I am proud to be a USTA member right now because I paid for it!

beststringer
05-10-2010, 10:07 PM
I am not talking about where the figure came from, but where the actual money came from. It came from you, people in the USTA, people paying for events, people paying for cable tennis channel, etc. We paid that money. Its nothing to applaud the exec for increasing! Do you cheer on your utility company execs when they increase their revenue by increasing their rates to you?

Just played a young guy last nite, who brought up out of the blue that he wished he hadn't joined the USTA. Many people don't have money to pay for fees when we can find organized matches for free. Or maybe we could pay $10 to join a team, but then of course, the exec couldn't make his $9M. The fees and paying this guy $9M are a detriment to tennis. It turns people off. Thankfully there are decent sites such as tennis-league.com and others where we can arrange tennis, as well as some people who spend a bit of time to put together teams and competition outside of the USTA.

there are 2 clubs in my flight that charges 20k initiation fees and 500 monthly fees. the funny thing is their teammate don't talk to each other. the white dude didn't talk to the non-white dude the whole match.

FlyingBoat
05-12-2010, 02:58 PM
Regarding 2009 US Open

"attendance is expected to reach 675,000, trailing only the last two years, the sources said. But because of ticket price increases, ticket revenue is projected to increase."

Attendance down, but revenue up. Wonderful, less people go, but the CEO gets his $9M for increasing revenue. Yeah! Something to cheer about!

JoelDali
05-12-2010, 04:12 PM
Ticket prices doubled this year, unbeliveable.

Sherlock
05-12-2010, 04:59 PM
I don't know why you would rather play in a $40 tournament than a $5 tournament, but it takes all kinds I guess. The smart ones know how to find people like you and put $9M in their pockets by doing it. I guess we should applaud him for that.

I would like to clear something up for you, because I see this quite a bit actually. Unless the tournament is run by the USTA, the USTA does not get money from the tournaments. The company/organization putting the tournament together does.

I put together a few tournaments and I can tell you that unless it is a community tournament where the community is not being charged for the courts, you will not see a tournament for $5. With the costs of courts, balls, trophies, insurance, etc. it is very difficult to profit from a tournament. I run tournaments at schools/parks by where I live and it is amazingly difficult to just break even charging $25 or $30 entry fees. More expensive facilities need to charge $40 to cover the loss of money being made from court time.

West Coast Ace
05-16-2010, 01:23 PM
Since this got reopened....



This is why we'll always attribute this sort of complaining to the usual cry about corporate greed.Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't rip real CEOs of for-profit. I'm sure I'm one of the biggest Capitalists on this board. This is a not-for-profit - and one that inundates us with 'we're doing all these good things with your money'. To get force fed that, then hear about this pocket stuffing, is pathetic.

And sure, what else do you want to attribute those numbers too? The USTA is usually run by a bunch of people who are not professionals and do not have proper vision or business skills.
To make this statement and have it carry any validity, you'd have to prove AK did what others couldn't. And that's ridiculous. Tennis fans are a great demographic that advertisers want to reach.

My experiences with USTA have been 99%+ positive.From reading your posts on this board, one wouldn't draw that conclusion. I've been feeling sorry for you - sounds like you're surrounded by some real nutters...

Arlen has done more for the game than anyone I know.

:)Well played sarcasm.

For example, is a CEO worth $10 million a year if he increased the market value of the company by $140 billion in the past 5 years?Amen. There are a lot who are amazing bargains to their co. and shareholders.

FlyingBoat
05-21-2010, 05:37 AM
I would like to clear something up for you, because I see this quite a bit actually. Unless the tournament is run by the USTA, the USTA does not get money from the tournaments. The company/organization putting the tournament together does.


I didn't know that.

Yes, I am comparing to community or friend organized events.

Its just that there are a lot of fees for USTA, particularly for young people, and if there are so many more free options for play it is very difficult to justify paying membership, tournament, and team fees, etc.

My wife and I were on a team. So what do we pay combined? I believe it was $70 for USTA, $40 for team? For this we played 4 times, because of the number of people on the team. So that is about an extra $30 per match plus court fees of course.

Compare this to several mixers and organized events which cost nothing extra other than court fees.

Just talked to a high school senior yesterday and she brought up that she joined USTA and never used it. She played a lot of other tournaments, and she was wondering what other options were out there for her other than USTA once she graduates.

My wife and I have been to the US Open. We would like to go again. But I certainly won't be cheering on the USTA for increasing prices so they can pay off their CEO. It is not a good thing that he increased revenue at our expense!!!

We are consumers of the USTA. We don't cheer on our vendors when they raise our prices and don't provide a better service.

I have my own business. I certainly don't expect my customers to be happy and cheer me on for increasing revenues at their expense. And yet, that is what I see people doing on this board for the USTA. It is bewildering.

subban
05-21-2010, 06:07 AM
I'm not against inter-city outreach, but yeah, it has to be done in the right way. A lot of sporting operations work on this "unfound talent in the Ghetto" myth... honestly, no public tennis program is going to produce a pro player without tons of coaching and support.

Bummer about the local gov screwing you over on the courts. Sounds like they either want a new line of revenue or they feel that there aren;t enough people who use the courts to make repairs worth while. I did some searching around and USTA does offer grants for court maintenance and repair, but there are conditions for the award. I found the story of one court that got two grants from the USTA for a total of about $65,000 - but that was really small change as more than about $90,000 came from fund raising and private contributions, and another large chunk of change came from local gov.

You can check out some of the program results here: http://thebigserve.usta.com/stories/

Seems like a lot of these courts also support some sort of youth programs and teaching in additon to just being park facilities.
Bummer...


Look at the Williams sisters. they did'nt have top coaching till they were 13-14. They only had their dad and some rundown concrete courts in compton. They is a lot of untapped talent in the ghetto. You just need to sponsor the right programs to get these kids interested in tennis as they are in basketball, football and baseball.

JoelDali
05-21-2010, 06:52 AM
He didn't get $9 million.

He probably got about $4.5 million after taxes.

:)

FlyingBoat
05-21-2010, 07:26 AM
Another example. My daugher was in a summer tennis program where they played other cities. The end of the year tournament happened to be a USTA sanctioned tournament. So I believe we needed to fork out $55 or so, so she could join the USTA and play with the team in the tournament. About half of the parents thought this was rediculous and didn't pay, so we went with half a team, needing to forfeit a number of matches.

Yeah, USTA, way to go turning kids off to tennis. But Arlen did get his $9M, so we should all be happy that he did such a wonderful job.

baseliner68
11-29-2010, 02:54 PM
If you want the most recent complete info on USTA's finances and what they pay go to http://207.153.189.83/EINS/135459420/135459420_2008_05886AB4.PDF

For information on your local association, districts or any other info go to http://www.eri-nonprofit-salaries.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=NPO.Search then hit "nonprofit form 990s" on the left scroll down. From there you can type in your states association, district, etc and find out where the money went. Some (very few) have up the 2009 info but you can get the 2008 and back data.

It's really pretty amazing how much these people are paid. Who would ever think that a state director of the state in a district with the smallest revenue would be paid the most in some cases? It's obvious through very little research that many boards do a fast sign off on the info (given to them by the director) then go about their lives. They fully trust the info which can be manipulated to look however one wants and don't do any research. It doesn't make any sense that a person would get a pay raise of over $10G in one year under bad economic times and when they are basically the same budget. A good example of this is Leslie Pfeiffer in AR. She was paid over $91,000.00 in 2008 while execs with similar budgets were paid around $50,000.00. Her pay raise from '07 to '08 was ridiculous.

All tennis players and patrons should keep up with their associations as the boards of directors are NOT.

baseliner68
11-29-2010, 02:55 PM
Page 7 on the first link will give you the salaries.

rh310
11-30-2010, 11:20 AM
I agree about corporate America. Most people don't have a clue about the decisions a head of a Fortune 100 makes. And the Left uses it for Class Warfare.


Class warfare is what happened to Marie Antoinette, Ace. Besides, if you look at the transfer and concentration of wealth since the 1970s, if there IS class warfare then it's Warren Buffet's class that is winning.


Wow, that's pretty callous... and you speled 'charities' wrong - doesn't look good on you...

I love it when someone rags on spelling errors by misspelling "spelled"...

JoelDali
11-30-2010, 12:55 PM
If you want the most recent complete info on USTA's finances and what they pay go to http://207.153.189.83/EINS/135459420/135459420_2008_05886AB4.PDF

For information on your local association, districts or any other info go to http://www.eri-nonprofit-salaries.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=NPO.Search then hit "nonprofit form 990s" on the left scroll down. From there you can type in your states association, district, etc and find out where the money went. Some (very few) have up the 2009 info but you can get the 2008 and back data.

It's really pretty amazing how much these people are paid. Who would ever think that a state director of the state in a district with the smallest revenue would be paid the most in some cases? It's obvious through very little research that many boards do a fast sign off on the info (given to them by the director) then go about their lives. They fully trust the info which can be manipulated to look however one wants and don't do any research. It doesn't make any sense that a person would get a pay raise of over $10G in one year under bad economic times and when they are basically the same budget. A good example of this is Leslie Pfeiffer in AR. She was paid over $91,000.00 in 2008 while execs with similar budgets were paid around $50,000.00. Her pay raise from '07 to '08 was ridiculous.

All tennis players and patrons should keep up with their associations as the boards of directors are NOT.

The USTA is just a big cluster of old rich women meddling with lead tape and hoards of casheesh.

dennis10is
11-30-2010, 03:27 PM
The USTA is just a big cluster of old rich women meddling with lead tape and hoards of casheesh.

Congrats Dude.

Hopefully I'll see you at Nationals in December and you must visit LI next summer and teach this 1.0 how to hit the ball.

Is there a glow about you now? Do you still put your pants on one leg at a time or is there a kinetic chain, windshield wipping motion that you do now?

JoelDali
11-30-2010, 03:45 PM
Congrats Dude.

Hopefully I'll see you at Nationals in December and you must visit LI next summer and teach this 1.0 how to hit the ball.

Is there a glow about you now? Do you still put your pants on one leg at a time or is there a kinetic chain, windshield wipping motion that you do now?

I'm not sure why you come here and attack me with these words that resemble bullets but I hope next time you do attack me Mr. Dennis, you're dressed in a white garter belt.

I'll probably see you around Nationals...I have a secret resting spot at Billie Jean's upstairs near court 10 I'd like to show you in between matches.

I spoke to J011y's attorneys last week while I was in Montauk and there are some exciting things happening for 2011, sure to blow the minds of all TT members. I am trying with all my might to not reveal the news, its that spectacular.

And now, I'd like to post a random pic that sums up the swinging volley J011y executed last week that was a part of us bageling a former D1 player and his partner. I did it for the LOLz and J011y did it for the glory.

http://i48.tinypic.com/15z1nk4.jpg

dennis10is
12-01-2010, 03:29 PM
I'm not sure why you come here and attack me with these words that resemble bullets but I hope next time you do attack me Mr. Dennis, you're dressed in a white garter belt.

I'll probably see you around Nationals...I have a secret resting spot at Billie Jean's upstairs near court 10 I'd like to show you in between matches.

I spoke to J011y's attorneys last week while I was in Montauk and there are some exciting things happening for 2011, sure to blow the minds of all TT members. I am trying with all my might to not reveal the news, its that spectacular.

And now, I'd like to post a random pic that sums up the swinging volley J011y executed last week that was a part of us bageling a former D1 player and his partner. I did it for the LOLz and J011y did it for the glory.

http://i48.tinypic.com/15z1nk4.jpg

Forgive me, I'm a bitter 1.0, resentful that other's are getting bumped while I continued to expend copious amount of blood, sweat, and tears and have remained a 1.0 all my life.

vizsla
12-01-2010, 03:54 PM
I didn't see this posted anywhere else:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news;_ylt=AtZvnJq9HfJDWiCEc4zkOHc4v7YF?slug=ap-usopen-kantariancompensation&prov=ap&type=lgns

Could the timing of the release be any worse for the USTA? Time for renewals...

Ace:

Could you repost the link. Got a "page not found" error

baseliner68
12-01-2010, 05:48 PM
If you're looking for the salaries go to http://www.eri-nonprofit-salaries.com/

From there look on the left side under "Compensation Resources" and click on "Nonprofit Form 990s"

"Quick Search" will then come up. Type in "United States Tennis Association" and several will come up. Click on the one with the address in White Plains. You can then see several different years come up and the most current one is 2008 which is at the bottom of the page. Click on that. Go to page 7 of the pdf document and you will see the names, hours worked/week and pay. The page should be http://207.153.189.83/EINS/135459420/135459420_2008_05886AB4.PDF