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View Full Version : Unbelievable WTF rule!!!!


christos_liaskos
11-26-2009, 03:33 AM
If 3 players are tied on number of wins and number of sets and games then the atp get to pick who goes through to the semis!!!!

They just said so on Sky Sports coverage. I think they said it's called the 'slide' rule

GustafsonFanatic
11-26-2009, 03:36 AM
If 3 players are tied on number of wins and number of sets and games then the atp get to pick who goes through to the semis!!!!

They just said so on Sky Sports coverage. I think they said it's called the 'slide' rule

Do they take H2H into account? Like, if Fed and DP are tied at everything, do they consider their score against each other in RR?

GasquetGOAT
11-26-2009, 03:37 AM
Do they take H2H into account? Like, if Fed and DP are tied at everything, do they consider how they played against each other in RR?

They will compare the size of their biceps then decide who goes through.

joeri888
11-26-2009, 03:39 AM
Good for Federer and Murray. The chances of that happening in games are pretty small btw.

GustafsonFanatic
11-26-2009, 03:42 AM
They will compare the size of their biceps then decide who goes through.

No, seriously, do they take into account who beat whom in RR match?

christos_liaskos
11-26-2009, 03:43 AM
Do they take H2H into account? Like, if Fed and DP are tied at everything, do they consider their score against each other in RR?

H2H wouldnt solve the probelm when 3 players are involved and they all have equal number of wins. Each player would have one win against one of the other 2 players

GustafsonFanatic
11-26-2009, 03:44 AM
H2H wouldnt solve the probelm when 3 players are involved and they all have equal number of wins. Each player would have one win against one of the other 2 players

No, I mean between 2 players?

christos_liaskos
11-26-2009, 03:47 AM
No, I mean between 2 players?

Well if two players are tied at the top of the group there is no problem. I should think it would depend on their H2H in that case but i'm not sure of the rule. However, it's in the case of 3 being tied that there is clearly a problem

GustafsonFanatic
11-26-2009, 03:49 AM
ty

How do they choose, by the way? Roll a dice?

namelessone
11-26-2009, 03:51 AM
ty

How do they choose, by the way? Roll a dice?

They actually sell the tickets for a deciding match,the players meet at the net for a coin toss in full battle gear and whoever wins the coin toss goes on to the semifinals. Or that's how I imagine it would go:)
Or since this tennis after all,the guy who picks up the most balls should move onto the semi's,here is an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiAhUmk84GI

Stupid rule.

christos_liaskos
11-26-2009, 03:53 AM
ty

How do they choose, by the way? Roll a dice?

They just said the ATP get to pick....as in who is their favourite lol. Really dont know how they would decide, I would be surprised if it was a roll of a dice. Maybe they could see who has the most wins during the season :confused:. It would hardly be a valid reason but atleast it would be something for them to release to the world's press rather than just saying they are rolling a dice, which would make tennis look like the biggest joke sport on the planet

GustafsonFanatic
11-26-2009, 03:55 AM
They actually sell the tickets for a deciding match,the players meet at the net for a coin toss in full battle gear and whoever wins the coin toss goes on to the semifinals. Or that's how I imagine it would go:)

Stupid rule.

Rafa would still make them wait for him at the net.

namelessone
11-26-2009, 04:00 AM
Rafa would still make them wait for him at the net.

Well the spectators did pay for a show and Rafa should prolong the tension for as much as possible. I also imagine him positioning his bottles to ensure that he is the lucky one after the coin toss and since there won't be a match going on,he won't sprint to the baseline but the lockers.

Like I said,I can't believe this rule actually exists. It makes the sport look bad.

GustafsonFanatic
11-26-2009, 04:03 AM
They actually sell the tickets for a deciding match,the players meet at the net for a coin toss in full battle gear and whoever wins the coin toss goes on to the semifinals. Or that's how I imagine it would go:)
Or since this tennis after all,the guy who picks up the most balls should move onto the semi's,here is an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiAhUmk84GI

Stupid rule.

But can he do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NDPOqN2p7c

vernonbc
11-26-2009, 04:11 AM
Your misunderstanding of a comment is what's unbelievable. They have a whole list of tie breaking standards including number of matches won and lost, games won and lost, head to head records, and they can go even further into the weeds of statistics to decide who gets what spot. It's not going to be decided by a whim or a flip of the coin.

GustafsonFanatic
11-26-2009, 04:15 AM
3) The final standings of each group shall be determined by the first of the following
methods that apply:
a) Greatest number of wins;
b) Greatest number of matches played;
c) Head-to-head results if only two (2) players are tied,
d) If three (3) players are tied, then:
i) If three (3) players each have one win, a player having played less than all
three (3) matches is automatically eliminated and the player advancing to
the single elimination competition is the winner of the match-up of the two
(2) players tied with 1-2 records; or
ii) Highest percentage of sets won; or
iii) Highest percentage of games won.
iv) If (i), (ii) or (iii) produce one (1) superior player (first place), or one (1) inferior
player (third place), and the two (2) remaining players are tied, the tie
between those two (2) players shall be broken by head-to-head record.
4) If ties still exist after the above procedures, the ATP shall make the final determination.



From their website

malakas
11-26-2009, 04:21 AM
that has about as much chance happening as a meteor falling in my head while I type this.

joeri888
11-26-2009, 04:34 AM
that has about as much chance happening as a meteor falling in my head while I type this.

The question I'll be waiting to be answered: Did it happen?

vive le beau jeu !
11-26-2009, 04:40 AM
that has about as much chance happening as a meteor falling in my head while I type this.
tell that to these guys... ;)
http://astro.wsu.edu/worthey/astro/html/im-meteor/strikes.html

The question I'll be waiting to be answered: Did it happen?
not yet.
but according to nostradamus, it should happen in the 3841 masters cup.

malakas
11-26-2009, 04:43 AM
The question I'll be waiting to be answered: Did it happen?

Nothing yet :-? The sky is calm today.Keep waiting.

tell that to these guys... ;)
http://astro.wsu.edu/worthey/astro/html/im-meteor/strikes.html.

haha oh well. :mrgreen:

christos_liaskos
11-26-2009, 06:00 AM
Your misunderstanding of a comment is what's unbelievable. They have a whole list of tie breaking standards including number of matches won and lost, games won and lost, head to head records, and they can go even further into the weeds of statistics to decide who gets what spot. It's not going to be decided by a whim or a flip of the coin.

I did not misunderstand any comment thank you very much. In particular I pointed out the matter of deciding on games won and lost and head to head records etc. If you cant understand MY post which explained the situation perfectly then you're the one who's misunderstanding is unbelievable.

Also, thank you GustafsonFanatic for posting a list of the rules for all to see. It pretty much confirms everything I originally posted.

And yes of course it is unbelievably unlikely to happen but I would love to see it. How the ATP think they can get away with having such a ridiculous rule as no.4 If ties still exist after the above procedures, the ATP shall make the final determination. I just dont see how they could resolve such an issue without damaging the sport's reputation.

dh003i
11-26-2009, 07:17 AM
H2H wouldnt solve the probelm when 3 players are involved and they all have equal number of wins. Each player would have one win against one of the other 2 players

Why not decide by match-statistics? Number of sets won matches in, then if that's tied, games won, then points, etc.

christos_liaskos
11-26-2009, 07:41 AM
^^^^^ If people cant be bothered to read atleast some of the posts in a thread before they decide to have their own say could they atleast read the original post!!!! How many times are people going to keep saying "if number of wins is tied cant they count the number of sets and games won"!? I addressed this issue in my original post!!! The problem wasn't just when the number of match wins is tied by 3 players but if they also have the same number of sets and games won.

How many times am I going to have to repeat myself :confused:

kishnabe
11-26-2009, 07:49 AM
Why not decide by match-statistics? Number of sets won matches in, then if that's tied, games won, then points, etc.

Ya same, Just how dominant was the performance!
If the games are tied, then go by how well was the performne by polls. Also Bias is prefered in the Survey, since it is the People's desire!

Anaconda
11-26-2009, 08:40 AM
They should do the higher ranked player goes through.

Gorecki
11-26-2009, 08:57 AM
shouldnt they go by number of points?

dh003i
11-26-2009, 08:57 AM
^^^^^ If people cant be bothered to read atleast some of the posts in a thread before they decide to have their own say could they atleast read the original post!!!! How many times are people going to keep saying "if number of wins is tied cant they count the number of sets and games won"!? I addressed this issue in my original post!!! The problem wasn't just when the number of match wins is tied by 3 players but if they also have the same number of sets and games won.

How many times am I going to have to repeat myself :confused:

If # of sets and games won is tied, then go by % points won. It is extremely unlikely that will be the same. If it is, then go by the next most meaningful %, maybe winners to unforced errors ratio? And so-on.

rfedererfan
11-26-2009, 08:59 AM
I have a question: Is there a possibility Federer doesn't make it to semis after Murray beating Verdasco ?

Rhino
11-26-2009, 09:32 AM
They should just let Federer through. Because he's Federer. :)

Rhino
11-26-2009, 09:34 AM
I have a question: Is there a possibility Federer doesn't make it to semis after Murray beating Verdasco ?

Yes there is. If DelPo beats Federer in straight sets and Federer ends up with less game-wins than Murray, then Murray and DelPo go through.

Even if DelPo beats Federer in three sets and it turns out that Fed has less game wins than either DelPo or Murray, then he won't go through.

OliverSimon
11-26-2009, 09:35 AM
If it comes down to sets then it goes down to games...

Topaz
11-26-2009, 09:35 AM
that has about as much chance happening as a meteor falling in my head while I type this.

Malakas, you still there?!? :shock: ;)

malakas
11-26-2009, 10:33 AM
Malakas, you still there?!? :shock: ;)

hahaha well..It still has to get to equal sets and games for the 3 players..

but I'm taking cover!!!

Max G.
11-26-2009, 03:27 PM
How the ATP think they can get away with having such a ridiculous rule as no.4 If ties still exist after the above procedures, the ATP shall make the final determination. I just dont see how they could resolve such an issue without damaging the sport's reputation.

They don't expect it to ever come into play. Even in a WTF as close as this one, "games won" still ended up being enough of a determinant.

Regardless of what rules they have, it's probably going to end with "and if those rules aren't enough to make a determination, we'll figure something out" because it's round robin and ties can happen.

I don't think it matters much as I don't expect it to happen.

GustafsonFanatic
11-26-2009, 04:52 PM
that has about as much chance happening as a meteor falling in my head while I type this.

Are you on Google Earth?

malakas
11-26-2009, 05:06 PM
Are you on Google Earth?

haah why?Looking for the meteor crater??
Well it didn't went down to ATP deciding so I'm safe.Pretty close though.*phew* Remind me not to make such statement again.