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View Full Version : Feds stradegy versus Del Potro


jazzyfunkybluesy
11-27-2009, 03:14 AM
I am a Fed fan. But it seems his approach to Del Potro's game is clearly not working. What is DP weakest part of his game? His movement. He is 6'6 and not very fast. Why doesn't Fed hit left, right, left, right and run DP around like a headless chicken? What do you guys think?

Marius_Hancu
11-27-2009, 03:36 AM
You don't seem to have been around for a long time.

This is exactly what Fed did to him in their initial encounters. Now DelPo's too good at times, mobile too. Fed really needs to play at the top of his game to beat him, and yesterday just wasn't the case, e.g. his volleys.

When your FH is 90mph and your opponent is 106mph, that can generate a problem for anyone.

CMM
11-27-2009, 03:42 AM
I am a Fed fan. But it seems his approach to Del Potro's game is clearly not working. What is DP weakest part of his game? His movement. He is 6'6 and not very fast. Why doesn't Fed hit left, right, left, right and run DP around like a headless chicken? What do you guys think?
Wrong. He should hit long, low and on the middle.

Sartorius
11-27-2009, 03:47 AM
I am a Fed fan. But it seems his approach to Del Potro's game is clearly not working. What is DP weakest part of his game? His movement. He is 6'6 and not very fast. Why doesn't Fed hit left, right, left, right and run DP around like a headless chicken? What do you guys think?

I think he tried to do that, both in yesterday's match and also in the USO final, trying to hit topspin backhands CC, and DTL as well (we all know he isn't very comforable hitting that).

Many people suggest Federer should use the slice more, and perhaps he should, but I think Federer may be afraid of becoming too predictable against Del Potro; Del Potro has a fine backhand, and for all his size and height, he's a good enough mover on the baseline to run around the slice and hit inside out forehands, pinning Federer on his backhand side (unlike Soderling, IMO you will see Federer hitting the slice more should the two meet again), which is the last thing Federer would want. I think he may use DTL slice a little more, or really knifing it to bring Del Potro in, but those are also not easy shots to hit.

Del Potro has become a very capable player. I think it just comes keeping your head cool and executing the right shots at the big moments, for both of them... Remember, their last three matches have gone to the distance, they have been very close and could have gain either way, so you can't really say "Federer's approach is clearly not working".

GasquetGOAT
11-27-2009, 03:52 AM
I am a Fed fan. But it seems his approach to Del Potro's game is clearly not working. What is DP weakest part of his game? His movement. He is 6'6 and not very fast. Why doesn't Fed hit left, right, left, right and run DP around like a headless chicken? What do you guys think?

The bold part is incorrect. The exact opposite is whats becoming a problem for Fed. He is tall and fast. Fed himself said, he's surprised for such a tall figure he plays like a small person. Fed said he is fast but wasn't using his height as an advantage to hit harder. However, now that he IS hitting harder whilst still as fast as a "small person", that's an unbeatable combo.

None of the top 4 would want to draw him before the semis at AO, thats for sure.

Strobe Lights
11-27-2009, 04:07 AM
He should return to slicing more. The low ball really troubles Del Potro. In the third set of the US Open, he started hitting way too many topspin backhands and trying to hit with Delpo from the baseline and has continued doing that.

Also, he should stop approaching to the Del Potro forehand. He was burned time and again in the US Open final and yesterday.

But, as others have said, Del Potro is now a better player than in their first meetings. Even on top of what I've said, he would still have to play excellent to beat him.

fps
11-27-2009, 04:10 AM
he did do this at the French, it's what won him the match. In 3 sets it's more difficult to tire him out, but Fed has a good go with those drop shot/ lob combos.

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-27-2009, 04:24 AM
You don't seem to have been around for a long time.

This is exactly what Fed did to him in their initial encounters. Now DelPo's too good at times, mobile too. Fed really needs to play at the top of his game to beat him, and yesterday just wasn't the case, e.g. his volleys.

When your FH is 90mph and your opponent is 106mph, that can generate a problem for anyone.

Right, Fed won those initial matches easily I watched all of them. I'm just saying he's got to move him around. He cannot trade forehand or backhand bombs with the guy. Wont work.

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-27-2009, 04:27 AM
The bold part is incorrect. The exact opposite is whats becoming a problem for Fed. He is tall and fast. Fed himself said, he's surprised for such a tall figure he plays like a small person. Fed said he is fast but wasn't using his height as an advantage to hit harder. However, now that he IS hitting harder whilst still as fast as a "small person", that's an unbeatable combo.

None of the top 4 would want to draw him before the semis at AO, thats for sure.

Fast as a "small" person like David Ferrer. You are delusional. He is nowhere near as fast.

Andres
11-27-2009, 04:43 AM
Right, Fed won those initial matches easily I watched all of them. I'm just saying he's got to move him around. He cannot trade forehand or backhand bombs with the guy. Wont work.
Move him from side to side won't work, as Delpotro has a scary forehand on the run. If you move him wide on the forehand side, he'll send down a 110 mph forehand.

If anything, Fed has to move him up and down, not side to side. Lure him with that short slice and draw him to the net.

Delpo started the match with one strategy: Take risks. He was not playing passive. And if a guy with groundies like Del Potro's takes risk, it means trouble for the other guy, meaning Fed, Nadal, or whoever.

GasquetGOAT
11-27-2009, 05:06 AM
Fast as a "small" person like David Ferrer. You are delusional. He is nowhere near as fast.

Re-read my post. Are you calling Federer delusional? He said it not me.:rolleyes:

fps
11-27-2009, 05:12 AM
Fast as a "small" person like David Ferrer. You are delusional. He is nowhere near as fast.

he has longer legs. they eat up the ground.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
11-27-2009, 05:12 AM
Everyone is a coach :)

Anaconda
11-27-2009, 05:15 AM
Federer should try serving at 70% - like he does against everyone except Nadal and JMDP

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-27-2009, 05:17 AM
Move him from side to side won't work, as Delpotro has a scary forehand on the run. If you move him wide on the forehand side, he'll send down a 110 mph forehand.

If anything, Fed has to move him up and down, not side to side. Lure him with that short slice and draw him to the net.

Delpo started the match with one strategy: Take risks. He was not playing passive. And if a guy with groundies like Del Potro's takes risk, it means trouble for the other guy, meaning Fed, Nadal, or whoever.

Good tactics to use. His net play is probably his weakest link.

sureshs
11-27-2009, 05:19 AM
Fed's topspin-heavy shots don't have the same devastating effect as flat shots hit by 6'6" DP. It is a contest between a hammer and a pencil. DP should win and he is.

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-27-2009, 05:21 AM
David vs Goliath

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-27-2009, 05:26 AM
Re-read my post. Are you calling Federer delusional? He said it not me.:rolleyes:

Your right sorry.........if Fed said it.

Lotto
11-27-2009, 05:28 AM
You've got to remember aswell man that tennis is all about geometry, shot selection, percentages etc. when it comes to strategy/tactics. So, it is a very very low percentage play if you go left then right unless you're hitting crosscourt, as in, forehand crosscourt, backhand crosscourt but that would mean your opponent would have to go down the line on every wide ball you hit which they're going to do like, what, 10% of the time maybe, because it's such a low percentage shot. So, for Federer to do that, hitting a forehand crosscourt followed by a forehand down the line followed by a forehand crosscourt is a dangerous and low percentage play which can be done but it's obviously not going to work if you do it all the time. The second reason is, Del Potro is tall, he has a huge wingspan, he can reach alot of balls due to his size. He's lethal on the run, especially on the forehand side. If you hit wide to his forehand it opens up angles for him.

I think, as Will from fuzzy yellow balls said, in the first two and 3/4 sets in the US Open final, Roger was hitting up the middle of the court to limit Del Potro's angles and it was working but he changed it for some reason aswell as losing his focus after hawkeye incident.

So, as you can see, it's not as simple as hitting the ball to that place or just doing that, there are alot of factors that go into the development of tactics at the highest level.

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-27-2009, 05:31 AM
Very true.

Lotto
11-27-2009, 05:36 AM
I'm not saying pros don't hit crosscourt then down the line but they play crosscourt more often, once they gain control of the point then they can do it, Agassi used to do this all the time, he used to gain control of the point and then he used to "run his opponent from bradenton to vegas" as he and bolliteri used to call it. But it's more difficult with Del Potro for obvious reasons, ah.

flyinghippos101
11-27-2009, 06:07 AM
What Fed has stopped doing alot of against Del Potro was drop shotting more or keeping it low to his backhand with some slices. Del Potro hates low balls and stiill have some difficulty going from the baseline to the net during tense rallies. Fed could've atleast disrupted some of those rallies with a few drop shots.

Lotto
11-27-2009, 06:17 AM
What Fed has stopped doing alot of against Del Potro was drop shotting more or keeping it low to his backhand with some slices. Del Potro hates low balls and stiill have some difficulty going from the baseline to the net during tense rallies. Fed could've atleast disrupted some of those rallies with a few drop shots.



Very true, can be quite risky tho, if he doesn't hit it right it could sit up and then he's in trouble, he needs to do it at the right time, ie when he's inside the baseline and in control. I agree though, more dropshots are necessary again. Also, I'd employ the slice backhand, inside-out forehand combo a bit more. The slice will get Delpo down and Roger can attack the delpo backhand with his strength then.

darthpwner
11-27-2009, 06:18 AM
i agree with flying hippos. Federer needs to get Del Potro up to the net and bending low. Del Potro is tall so low balls would be hell for him. Del Potro's net game isnt too strong either so Federer needs to bring back the slice against Delpo.

helloworld
11-27-2009, 06:45 AM
Del Potro's movement is by far the weakest part of his game. I'm just surprised that a guy who could move extremely well as Federer struggles against a guy with the worst movement in the top 10. Del Potro must really have some exceptional groundstokes. That's my only logical explanation for this interesting case...

AM95
11-27-2009, 07:26 AM
or chip and charge the was sampras would and drop volley him..or drop shot him like he did to everyone in the french

KenC
11-27-2009, 07:36 AM
Move him from side to side won't work, as Delpotro has a scary forehand on the run. If you move him wide on the forehand side, he'll send down a 110 mph forehand.

If anything, Fed has to move him up and down, not side to side. Lure him with that short slice and draw him to the net.

Delpo started the match with one strategy: Take risks. He was not playing passive. And if a guy with groundies like Del Potro's takes risk, it means trouble for the other guy, meaning Fed, Nadal, or whoever.

You're absolutely right. The only real weakness in JDMP's game is his horrible net play. I would hit one short ball down the line, bring him in, then pass on the cross. Also, Federer cannot stand toe to toe with Del Potro at the baseline, so he is going to have to get his first serves in and close the points fast, and he is going to have to improve at the net against him.

I'm getting kinda' tired of seeing him lose to Del Potro. Maybe its time RF get's off his high horse and get's a good coach and then actually listens to him.

LiveForever
11-27-2009, 07:38 AM
You're absolutely right. The only real weakness in JDMP's game is his horrible net play. I would hit one short ball down the line, bring him in, then pass on the cross. Also, Federer cannot stand toe to toe with Del Potro at the baseline, so he is going to have to get his first serves in and close the points fast, and he is going to have to improve at the net against him.

I'm getting kinda' tired of seeing him lose to Del Potro. Maybe its time RF get's off his high horse and get's a good coach and then actually listens to him.

LOL! you make it sound like Federer is in a desperate need of a coach. The guy has won 15 slams and is the best player in the world. :? And even with all these criticism, Federer was a point away from virtually winning the match.

tennisdad65
11-27-2009, 08:00 AM
Obviously Fed messed up the USOpen against Delpo, but fed's saving his best strategy against Novak and Delpo for future slams. He has a positive h2h against these guys and do not care in non-slams.

Against Murray and Nadal, he wants to reverse the H2H.. so he is more serious against these 2 guys in non-slams.

jwbarrientos
11-27-2009, 08:09 AM
Move him from side to side won't work, as Delpotro has a scary forehand on the run. If you move him wide on the forehand side, he'll send down a 110 mph forehand.

If anything, Fed has to move him up and down, not side to side. Lure him with that short slice and draw him to the net.

Delpo started the match with one strategy: Take risks. He was not playing passive. And if a guy with groundies like Del Potro's takes risk, it means trouble for the other guy, meaning Fed, Nadal, or whoever.

I think Roger lost his mind framing the ball, avoinding slice, palying slow ... Why Murray defeat frequently Delpo? bc of his game plan, Roger should pay attention to that.

AM95
11-27-2009, 09:22 AM
problem is..roger doesnt come out with a game plan anymore..

he has gotten so accustomed to playing the same game..

its either, set up the forehand and hit a winner
or
chip the return and draw the opponent to net (this worked with everyone except nadal who's heavy topsin forehand would pummel fed.

so really if federer would do what murray does..take a look at some tapes and find a weekness, he would be 50% better strategically then he is now

zasr4325
11-27-2009, 09:43 AM
unless you guys have seen him play, its not fair to say delpos slow. i was at the fed delpo match yesterday, and delpo was incredibly, (and surprisingly) mobile around the court. now obviously he doesnt have movement like fed, but he makes up for it with his huge reach and big groundstrokes. every ball that was around no mans land, delpo just unloaded onto, and you cant really see how hard it is til you see it up close. his CC strokes were unbelievable as well, and combined with some huge serving, fed needed to be serving better and just mixing it up more to beat him i think. but its not really an issue cos hes through anyway!

wangs78
11-27-2009, 11:29 AM
Wrong. He should hit long, low and on the middle.

Yup. He shouldn't give DP any good angles to hit, so side to side is a flawed strategy against DP. Mixing up the depths would and hitting down the middle would work better but Fed still needs to come up with a way to finish the point. DP's reach kind of offsets his weakness in the movement department. And his movement aint that bad - he's all of 20 yo so can still move very well. Give him three years and that 6'6" frame will then weigh him down. I think Fed needs to kind of adopt a pusher strategy against DP. Fed with this his experience should be able to get DP to get impatient and ultimate screw up with UEs. I'm sure Fed would hate doing this, but his not going to overpower DP, and DP, with his wingspan, covers the court as well as anyone, so angles don't help that much either. Maybe hit a short ball, get DP to move closer to net into no man's land and then hit a shot into the corner, or something like that.