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View Full Version : Murray wants umpires to crack down on go-slow players


Omega_7000
11-27-2009, 06:00 AM
Andy Murray hopes that officials will call time on slow play after the Scot was edged out of a semifinal place at this weekend's World Tour Finals on a statistical quirk.

The world No. 4 had to watch as Roger Federer lost in three sets in a late-night match to Juan Martin Del Potro, with the Swiss and the Argentine going through to the last four on the tennis equivalent of goal difference - winning game percentage.

But Murray has other issues with the new-look event, moved from Shanghai after a successful four-year run in Asia.

He'd like umpires to crack down on time-wasting, which he feels he may have experienced in his last group match, a win over Spain's Fernando Verdasco. He said that his opponent was taking his sweet time to return after changeovers.

"For me, if it's 25 seconds that you get between the points, I think some of the tournaments it's 20 seconds, and if you're over a couple of times, there has to be a warning," he said.

"When the umpire calls time, you should be out of your chair. That's it. That's the reason why they have those time limits.

"If the umpire calls time and your opponent is allowed to sit there for an extra 15 seconds, then I just don't think you should be allowed to do that."

http://www.tennistalk.com/en/news/20091127/Murray_wants_umpires_to_crack_down_on_go-slow_players

C-3PO
11-27-2009, 06:27 AM
if the player sits there for the extra time after the umpire called time, and runs to the baseline in time to receive the serve from the player who got up when the umpire called time, without any delay, then it is fine to me

snowbearr
11-27-2009, 06:34 AM
I think when the umpire says "time"
they should jump

mtr1
11-27-2009, 06:43 AM
If the rules were enforced, Nadal, Djokovic, Verdasco etc, would be getting warnings and point penalties every match. In the Verdasco- Federer match, the umpire told Verdasco he had to play at Federer's pace, but he didn't issue a warning.THESE RULES NEED TO BE ENFORCED.

Omega_7000
11-27-2009, 06:50 AM
THESE RULES NEED TO BE ENFORCED.

Agreed. That is always the counterargument from the time wasters...The umpire did not say anything. Hard to understand why the umpires cannot stand up to them. Fear?

AM95
11-27-2009, 06:59 AM
murray is just ****y because he got kicked from the semi's

PatrickB
11-27-2009, 07:05 AM
I think when the umpire says "time"
they should jump

When the umpire says "time" on a changeover, that's 30 seconds before the end of the time for the changeover, so you *can* sit for another 15 seconds, Murray.

malakas
11-27-2009, 07:07 AM
I never thought I would say this but....


Bravo Murray!!!!!


:shock:

settolove
11-27-2009, 07:07 AM
Murray's got a point. If there are rules then they should be enforced.

Agassifan
11-27-2009, 07:34 AM
This is like the rule against the goalie in soccer when he is up against a penalty kick. 90% of the time it is violated, but they never call it.

mikro112
11-27-2009, 08:08 AM
I never thought I would say this but....


Bravo Murray!!!!!


:shock:

lol.

Me too. It's the first time I agree with something Murray has said. Who cares if enforcing the rules means that Nadal, Djokovic, etc. will get warnings or point penalties. The part of the game so they have to deal with it.

TMF
11-27-2009, 08:18 AM
Murray's got a point. If there are rules then they should be enforced.

He would never said anything if he qualifies for the semi. The guy always have an excuse for everything when he's ****ed. He was a sore loser after Fed beat him, and now complaining about the rule.

malakas
11-27-2009, 08:21 AM
He would never said anything if he qualifies for the semi. The guy always have an excuse for everything when he's ****ed. He was a sore loser after Fed beat him, and now complaining about the rule.

I don't care a bit why he said it.All I care is that he DID say it and it's what everyone here is complaining about and been thinking but not many pros have dared to say anything about it.
And if it takes Murray to lose for something to be done,all the better!!

Chadwixx
11-27-2009, 08:24 AM
He is correct. The chair needs to take control of the court and enforce the rules, thats their job.

vive le beau jeu !
11-27-2009, 08:36 AM
watch carefully, you won't see that often:
"i do agree with the muzzette".

TheMusicLover
11-27-2009, 08:39 AM
If the rules were enforced, Nadal, Djokovic, Verdasco etc, would be getting warnings and point penalties every match. In the Verdasco- Federer match, the umpire told Verdasco he had to play at Federer's pace, but he didn't issue a warning.THESE RULES NEED TO BE ENFORCED.

This is really all there is to say about this matter. I'm glad Murray spoke up about it, hope it will have any results, but I remember very well that Federer has complained about it in the past as well - to no avail.

If rules aren't enforced, might as well get rid of them alltogether, but I'm sure that if THAT happens, players will be complaining about having to play until 02:00 AM... ;)

joeri888
11-27-2009, 08:47 AM
I think that if they don't enforcing it soon, it'll get worse and worse. They need to start giving some warnings. Kids who watch this will think it's cool to do that and will start doing it even worse etc. until there's no way back for them.

It's also a disadvantage to physically strong players. I think Soderling once said that it's so tough physically to play Roger, because he barely takes 10 seconds between two points.

TMF
11-27-2009, 08:49 AM
I don't care a bit why he said it.All I care is that he DID say it and it's what everyone here is complaining about and been thinking but not many pros have dared to say anything about it.
And if it takes Murray to lose for something to be done,all the better!!

Nadal and Novak is by far are the worse on the tour for abusing time. Why didn't he complain back then? Now he's taking shot at Verdasco just b/c he wasn't able to finish him off early than he want(which he could of qualify for the semi.). Shame on him!

batz
11-27-2009, 09:01 AM
He would never said anything if he qualifies for the semi. The guy always have an excuse for everything when he's ****ed. He was a sore loser after Fed beat him, and now complaining about the rule.

He said it before he got knocked out.

DRII
11-27-2009, 09:05 AM
Whatever Murray...

how about the umpires enforce a -- no just pushing the ball boring tennis rule --

He's just sour because he lost!

Some of the so called rules in tennis are so arbiturary and random, as long as the players are not taking so much time that it disrupts play it should be fine.

malakas
11-27-2009, 09:07 AM
Nadal and Novak is by far are the worse on the tour for abusing time. Why didn't he complain back then? Now he's taking shot at Verdasco just b/c he wasn't able to finish him off early than he want(which he could of qualify for the semi.). Shame on him!

better later than never!!It's nto easy to say this for Nadal and Novak the superstars that everyone adores and the members of the council.It is much easier to say it though against Verdasco,let's be real.

No Shame on Murray.Shame on those who delay and break the rules!!!!

batz
11-27-2009, 09:09 AM
Whatever Murray...

how about the umpires enforce a -- no just pushing the ball boring tennis rule --

He's just sour because he lost!

Some of the so called rules in tennis are so arbiturary and random, as long as the players are not taking so much time that it disrupts play it should be fine.

If one existed, I'm sure they'd enforce it.

to repeat, Murray said this before he was eliminated. He also complained to the umpire during the match about JMDP's timewasting in their Miami match.

[d]ragon
11-27-2009, 09:12 AM
Whatever Murray...

how about the umpires enforce a -- no just pushing the ball boring tennis rule --

He's just sour because he lost!

Some of the so called rules in tennis are so arbiturary and random, as long as the players are not taking so much time that it disrupts play it should be fine.

And if it's bothering the other player, then it is disrupting play. Plus, he's said this after his match with Verdasco, which he won

I agree with Murray too. Players can't take extra time because otherwise, it could be used to get an unfair advantage against their opponents by having more time to recover and/or annoy your opponents and breaking their concentration. Then if the other player does it back, then the play would move alot more slowly

jamesblakefan#1
11-27-2009, 09:27 AM
Whatever Murray...

how about the umpires enforce a -- no just pushing the ball boring tennis rule --

He's just sour because he lost!

Some of the so called rules in tennis are so arbiturary and random, as long as the players are not taking so much time that it disrupts play it should be fine.

Whatever hater. Murray's right, and I'd bet he'd wipe his ***** with you if you ever met him, on the court or off of it. ;)

TMF
11-27-2009, 09:33 AM
better later than never!!It's nto easy to say this for Nadal and Novak the superstars that everyone adores and the members of the council.It is much easier to say it though against Verdasco,let's be real.

No Shame on Murray.Shame on those who delay and break the rules!!!!

My point is Verdasco doesn't deserve that cheap shot from Murray. Blaming on him just b/c Murray fell short for the semi. is uncalled for.
Murray played the entire year didn't complain and now it comes down to this last match. Go figure.
Obviously, Murray is just ****ed off for not making the semi., not b/c of the timing issue. He could careless about it if he qualify.

malakas
11-27-2009, 09:42 AM
My point is Verdasco doesn't deserve that cheap shot from Murray. Blaming on him just b/c Murray fell short for the semi. is uncalled for.
Murray played the entire year didn't complain and now it comes down to this last match. Go figure.
Obviously, Murray is just ****ed off for not making the semi., not b/c of the timing issue. He could careless about it if he qualify.

If Nando did it,why not???It's not the only match he had complained about this.It's nothing personal.And it surely is NOT only Nando who does it.

jamesblakefan#1
11-27-2009, 09:47 AM
My point is Verdasco doesn't deserve that cheap shot from Murray. Blaming on him just b/c Murray fell short for the semi. is uncalled for.
Murray played the entire year didn't complain and now it comes down to this last match. Go figure.
Obviously, Murray is just ****ed off for not making the semi., not b/c of the timing issue. He could careless about it if he qualify.

I'm pretty sure Murray made his comments after his match was over, and BEFORE the Fed/JMDP match was over, and before he knew he was eliminated.

So it wasn't because he was POed about being eliminated.

edmondsm
11-27-2009, 09:53 AM
Whatever Murray...

how about the umpires enforce a -- no just pushing the ball boring tennis rule --

He's just sour because he lost!

Some of the so called rules in tennis are so arbiturary and random, as long as the players are not taking so much time that it disrupts play it should be fine.

You fail. Time limits are "so called rules" and they are "arbitrary and random"? Maybe they should take the shot clock out of basketball too eh?

Who are you to decide if it disrupts play? Andy Murray is actually out there playing these time-wasters and he seems to think it is an issue.

Watching Nadal play is like being behind the old lady with her coupon book in the check out line at the store. He takes time to towel off his entire body between every point it seems. He doesn't check the balls while he is walking up to the line, he does it when he gets there. Then his service routine is slow as hell. Maybe I could forgive him if he unleashed this bomb of a first serve, but he steps up there and spins one in that would make some WTA players blush.

joeri888
11-27-2009, 09:53 AM
You know, I don't think nadal and Djoker fans should defend their boy desperately. If they were forced to play a little faster, they would adjust with ease and find out they CAN play faster. They would get called a few times, but within a month they would have adjusted I'm sure.

It's not a problem if both players take 5 seconds too long after an exhausting rally in the fifth set, but if your routine is already over 25 seconds, something's wrong.

GinoGinelli
11-27-2009, 09:57 AM
I think the whole game needs speeding up. I say allow a quick drink while changing ends but only a sit down at the end of a set (make it say 4 or 5 mins to make up a bit). Definitely call an end to the fifty bounces before serving thing (no names!).

TMF
11-27-2009, 09:58 AM
I'm pretty sure Murray made his comments after his match was over, and BEFORE the Fed/JMDP match was over, and before he knew he was eliminated.

So it wasn't because he was POed about being eliminated.

According to the link from the OP:
http://www.tennistalk.com/en/news/20...o-slow_players

The article didn't say anything about Murray complaining BEFORE Fed/DP match.

jamesblakefan#1
11-27-2009, 10:00 AM
According to the link from the OP:
http://www.tennistalk.com/en/news/20...o-slow_players

The article didn't say anything about Murray complaining BEFORE Fed/DP match.

I'm assuming it's from his post match interview, in which case it would be from before the Fed/JMDP match had concluded.

malakas
11-27-2009, 10:03 AM
You fail. Time limits are "so called rules" and they are "arbitrary and random"? Maybe they should take the shot clock out of basketball too eh?

Who are you to decide if it disrupts play? Andy Murray is actually out there playing these time-wasters and he seems to think it is an issue.

Watching Nadal play is like being behind the old lady with her coupon book in the check out line at the store. He takes time to towel off his entire body between every point it seems. He doesn't check the balls while he is walking up to the line, he does it when he gets there. Then his service routine is slow as hell. Maybe I could forgive him if he unleashed this bomb of a first serve, but he steps up there and spins one in that would make some WTA players blush.


This has nothing to do with Nadal personally.No need to bring him into this.

TheTruth
11-27-2009, 10:04 AM
Nadal and Novak is by far are the worse on the tour for abusing time. Why didn't he complain back then? Now he's taking shot at Verdasco just b/c he wasn't able to finish him off early than he want(which he could of qualify for the semi.). Shame on him!

I agree. Nadal and Djokovic aren't the only time abusers, there are many lower ranked players who take a lot of time as well. I think it's a cheap shot to say something about Verdasco though.

*If the umpire said Verdasco should play to Fed's pace, I think that's wrong too. I've never heard of an umpire saying something that ridiculous.

jamesblakefan#1
11-27-2009, 10:09 AM
According to the link from the OP:
http://www.tennistalk.com/en/news/20...o-slow_players

The article didn't say anything about Murray complaining BEFORE Fed/DP match.

In fact it was from the post match interview.

Q. Can I ask you about the time ruling out there. There wasn't a changeover where you didn't go out there and have to wait a fair amount of time on the baseline for Fernando to come out. Before the match, you were kept waiting. Do you have any thoughts that maybe these rules should be tightened up a little bit at the moment?
ANDY MURRAY: Well, I think, you know, it's one of those rules where the umpire, you know, there's a bit of leeway there. If I was to you know, I don't know what the cutoff is like on swear words. I don't know what words you can and can't use. But, you know, there's obviously a cutoff. For me, if it's 25 seconds, you know, that you get between the points - it changes I think between the ITF and the ATP, I think some of the tournaments it's 20 seconds, some of them it's 25. But if you're over a couple of times, there has to be a warning. There's no excuse for that. And when the umpire calls time, you should be out of your chair. That's it. That's the reason why they have those time limits. So, you know, if the umpire calls time and your opponent is allowed to sit there for an extra 15 seconds, then I just don't think you should be allowed to do that.

http://www.barclaysatpworldtourfinals.com/News/Tennis/2009/Interviews/Finals-Thursday-Murray.aspx

TMF
11-27-2009, 10:10 AM
I'm assuming it's from his post match interview, in which case it would be from before the Fed/JMDP match had concluded.
Assuming is not good enough. I'm not saying he said it after Fed/DP's match, but you need proof that he said after he beat Verdasco. From that article, it sure sound like he said it after finding out that he was eliminated.

jamesblakefan#1
11-27-2009, 10:12 AM
Assuming is not good enough. I'm not saying he said it after Fed/DP's match, but you need proof that he said after he beat Verdasco. From that article, it sure sound like he said it after finding out that he was eliminated.

I just gave you proof. :lol:

batz
11-27-2009, 10:18 AM
In fact it was from the post match interview.



http://www.barclaysatpworldtourfinals.com/News/Tennis/2009/Interviews/Finals-Thursday-Murray.aspx

You're bang on - I read the same thing on the BBC when I got home last night @ 1945 - an hour before Roger v JMDP started.

malakas
11-27-2009, 10:21 AM
I agree. Nadal and Djokovic aren't the only time abusers, there are many lower ranked players who take a lot of time as well. I think it's a cheap shot to say something about Verdasco though.

*If the umpire said Verdasco should play to Fed's pace, I think that's wrong too. I've never heard of an umpire saying something that ridiculous.

Receiver should play at server's pace.No matter if server is Karlovic or Fillipo Volandri.



I don't get all the fuss about the timing of this interview.What matters is that what he says is true and repeatedly happens in the tour.

yemenmocha
11-27-2009, 10:40 AM
Murry's point is an excellent one and needs to be enforced. The time adds up over an entire match too. Matches are far too long and boring these days with all of the baseliners and counterpunchers.

GustafsonFanatic
11-27-2009, 11:00 AM
Nadal and Djokovic are not the only players who waste time.

If Murray wants the 25-sec rule to be enforced all the time, then he himself would get at least 20 warnings in a match.

TheTruth
11-27-2009, 11:10 AM
Receiver should play at server's pace.No matter if server is Karlovic or Fillipo Volandri.



I don't get all the fuss about the timing of this interview.What matters is that what he says is true and repeatedly happens in the tour.

I think it's petty and unfair to say it about Verdasco. I also think the reason the umpires aren't sitting there counting seconds is because it's silly. As far as I know, Serena and Venus are the only ones on tour who follow the rules such as not stopping between changeovers, et al. Everyone else on the tour wipes off, studies their balls before serving, go and talk to the wall, take time to scream, etc. Just my opinion.

TheTruth
11-27-2009, 11:11 AM
Nadal and Djokovic are not the only players who waste time.

If Murray wants the 25-sec rule to be enforced all the time, then he himself would get at least 20 warnings in a match.

Very true, another reason why his comment comes off as illogical to me.

LiveForever
11-27-2009, 11:13 AM
Oh my big deal! :lol: 5-10 seconds doesn't make a big difference.

edmondsm
11-27-2009, 11:15 AM
This has nothing to do with Nadal personally.No need to bring him into this.

There is no doubt that Nadal is one of the main offenders, and I have the right to state my opinion do I not?

wangs78
11-27-2009, 11:18 AM
They should simply install cattle prods in the chairs so that when time is up players who don't get up right away will get zapped in the arse.

babolat15
11-27-2009, 11:21 AM
I dont think its that big of a deal

kelawai
11-27-2009, 11:30 AM
A Rules is a Rules. Why don't they keep playing when a point is over and just ignored the umpire or lines person call.

When a chair umpire call 15/40. I wish I could walk over and tell him, I want 40/15

malakas
11-27-2009, 12:04 PM
I think it's petty and unfair to say it about Verdasco. I also think the reason the umpires aren't sitting there counting seconds is because it's silly. As far as I know, Serena and Venus are the only ones on tour who follow the rules such as not stopping between changeovers, et al. Everyone else on the tour wipes off, studies their balls before serving, go and talk to the wall, take time to scream, etc. Just my opinion.

If Verdasco did it it's not unfair and petty.It is fair and justified.

Also a lot of rules can be called "silly" .The whole sport of tennis is silly to some.

The rules are rules and since they're the rules they should be followed.The umps have NO excuse whatsoever for not following them.

malakas
11-27-2009, 12:05 PM
There is no doubt that Nadal is one of the main offenders, and I have the right to state my opinion do I not?

yes who said you didn't??But when you try to turn this into a flamewar then people also have the right to critisize you.

Fedace
11-27-2009, 12:07 PM
Andy Murray hopes that officials will call time on slow play after the Scot was edged out of a semifinal place at this weekend's World Tour Finals on a statistical quirk.

The world No. 4 had to watch as Roger Federer lost in three sets in a late-night match to Juan Martin Del Potro, with the Swiss and the Argentine going through to the last four on the tennis equivalent of goal difference - winning game percentage.

But Murray has other issues with the new-look event, moved from Shanghai after a successful four-year run in Asia.

He'd like umpires to crack down on time-wasting, which he feels he may have experienced in his last group match, a win over Spain's Fernando Verdasco. He said that his opponent was taking his sweet time to return after changeovers.

"For me, if it's 25 seconds that you get between the points, I think some of the tournaments it's 20 seconds, and if you're over a couple of times, there has to be a warning," he said.

"When the umpire calls time, you should be out of your chair. That's it. That's the reason why they have those time limits.

"If the umpire calls time and your opponent is allowed to sit there for an extra 15 seconds, then I just don't think you should be allowed to do that."

http://www.tennistalk.com/en/news/20091127/Murray_wants_umpires_to_crack_down_on_go-slow_players

Yes i know, that is why he came up 1 game short of making the Semis....:)

joeri888
11-27-2009, 12:20 PM
Oh my big deal! :lol: 5-10 seconds doesn't make a big difference.

Not if you do it in 1 point no. But 100 points a match, is 10 seconds per point, is a 1000 seconds, which makes a difference of more than 15 minutes. Also between the games, when time is called, you should stand up. Also after the first game, that's usually 20 seconds. At a tb changeover as well.

it does make a big difference. Imo the game of tennis is too slow.

edmondsm
11-27-2009, 12:57 PM
yes who said you didn't??But when you try to turn this into a flamewar then people also have the right to critisize you.

You weren't criticizing my opinion, which would have been fine, you were telling me what I could and could not bring to the discussion.

malakas
11-27-2009, 01:02 PM
You weren't criticizing my opinion, which would have been fine, you were telling me what I could and could not bring to the discussion.

You are the one taking it this way,I merely said my opinion on your post.
And I dont' want to sidetrack more on this,I think there's nothing more to talk about this.Misunderstanding.

edmondsm
11-27-2009, 01:07 PM
You are the one taking it this way,I merely said my opinion on your post.
And I dont' want to sidetrack more on this,I think there's nothing more to talk about this.Misunderstanding.

Fair enough. No big deal.

Defcon
11-27-2009, 01:48 PM
If they started enforcing the time rule, and also time between points, Nadal wouldn't win a single match, he'd be defaulted each time.

Which is why they'll never do it.

ClubHoUno
11-27-2009, 02:03 PM
I never thought I would say this but....


Bravo Murray!!!!!


:shock:

I hate EVERYTHING about the Murray Gig, but in this case he got a point :oops:

edmondsm
11-27-2009, 02:11 PM
I kind of like that the ump has some discretion, I just wish that they would enforce it more. When a player is say, trying to serve for the Wimbledon title, I don't have much of a problem with them taking a little more time between points. But the constant bending of the time rule is frustrating.

ReturnWinner
11-27-2009, 02:19 PM
I agree with this but ATP should punish excesive cmons and loudy celebrations specially in dfs and rivals ues as whining to umpires too

P_Agony
11-27-2009, 02:22 PM
murray is just ****y because he got kicked from the semi's

Maybe, but he's right. And Murray doesn't take a lot of time to serve as well. Verdasco was taking too long sure, but the kings of time wasting are Nadal and Djokovic. Both bounce the bal so many times it's seriously annoying to watch (And I'm sure play against).

P_Agony
11-27-2009, 02:25 PM
I agree. Nadal and Djokovic aren't the only time abusers, there are many lower ranked players who take a lot of time as well. I think it's a cheap shot to say something about Verdasco though.

*If the umpire said Verdasco should play to Fed's pace, I think that's wrong too. I've never heard of an umpire saying something that ridiculous.

I didn't watch Murray/Verdasco match, but in the Fed/Verdasco match Fernando was taking time and Federer complained to the umpire. Verdasco was told to go at Fed's pace (the rules are to go by the server's pace) but didn't get a warnning. Verdasco was really taking time out there...

TennisandMusic
11-27-2009, 02:28 PM
Actually tennistv.com is now showing the average time between points. Nadal has been right at 25. So all of you can quit complaining about him at least, it seems. DP, Djokovic, etc. All slower.

I do kind of agree with the calling time thing though. I never understood how he calls it, and both players will just sit there much of the time.

TheTruth
11-27-2009, 03:55 PM
I didn't watch Murray/Verdasco match, but in the Fed/Verdasco match Fernando was taking time and Federer complained to the umpire. Verdasco was told to go at Fed's pace (the rules are to go by the server's pace) but didn't get a warnning. Verdasco was really taking time out there...

I wasn't watching the match intently, so I don't know, but I get tired of Federer's insistence on administering the rules on the tour. As long as I've been watching tennis I've never heard of a pro constantly complaining about how others play. Sampras and Agassi never did this to each other. So far, Roger has complained about Rafa, Djokovic, Del Potro, now Verdasco. I'm sorry. He's not the governing body and his insistence on putting these things in print is wrong.

Emelia21
11-27-2009, 04:31 PM
Nadal and Djokovic are not the only players who waste time.

If Murray wants the 25-sec rule to be enforced all the time, then he himself would get at least 20 warnings in a match.

This is true:shock: and so would every other player on the ATP and WTA, including Roger and Serena :cry: it happens every match, yet only highlighted for the select few :cry:

Emelia21
11-27-2009, 04:35 PM
I wasn't watching the match intently, so I don't know, but I get tired of Federer's insistence on administering the rules on the tour. As long as I've been watching tennis I've never heard of a pro constantly complaining about how others play. Sampras and Agassi never did this to each other. So far, Roger has complained about Rafa, Djokovic, Del Potro, now Verdasco. I'm sorry. He's not the governing body and his insistence on putting these things in print is wrong.

Seems like Roger likes to complain about his biggest rivals, and those who can beat him in GS, except for Verdasco :? perhaps he views him as threat :confused:

jamesblakefan#1
11-27-2009, 05:23 PM
Seems like Roger likes to complain about his biggest rivals, and those who can beat him in GS, except for Verdasco :? perhaps he views him as threat :confused:

Del Potro was losing when Fed complained and still only 2-6 vs Federer, Djokovic is 1-4 vs Federer in slams. :rolleyes:

Gorecki
11-27-2009, 05:30 PM
I agree. Nadal and Djokovic aren't the only time abusers, there are many lower ranked players who take a lot of time as well. I think it's a cheap shot to say something about Verdasco though.

*If the umpire said Verdasco should play to Fed's pace, I think that's wrong too. I've never heard of an umpire saying something that ridiculous.

the problem with public forums is this... anyone can post on the subject, even those who dont know sheize about it...

I wasn't watching the match intently, so I don't know, but I get tired of Federer's insistence on administering the rules on the tour. As long as I've been watching tennis I've never heard of a pro constantly complaining about how others play. Sampras and Agassi never did this to each other. So far, Roger has complained about Rafa, Djokovic, Del Potro, now Verdasco. I'm sorry. He's not the governing body and his insistence on putting these things in print is wrong.

actually, if you knew a few things about tennis apart from how good rafa looks in suits, boxer shorts or borat bikinis, you would know that these things are in print already...

they are tennis rules...

federer, whom i dislike, happens to want them to be enforced...

_maxi
11-27-2009, 05:39 PM
100% agree with murray.

mikro112
11-27-2009, 05:40 PM
I wasn't watching the match intently, so I don't know, but I get tired of Federer's insistence on administering the rules on the tour. As long as I've been watching tennis I've never heard of a pro constantly complaining about how others play. Sampras and Agassi never did this to each other. So far, Roger has complained about Rafa, Djokovic, Del Potro, now Verdasco. I'm sorry. He's not the governing body and his insistence on putting these things in print is wrong.

Actually, Federer is the head (?) of the advisory council for the board of directors of the ATP, so his voice is VERY powerful in men's tennis.

Omega_7000
11-27-2009, 05:48 PM
actually, if you knew a few things about tennis apart from how good rafa looks in suits, boxer shorts or borat bikinis, you would know that these things are in print already...

they are tennis rules...

federer, whom i dislike, happens to want them to be enforced...

Agreed. Fanboyism aside, rules are there for a reason...If the umpires are not going to enforce them due to fear, then we need to get some umpires with balls!

jamesblakefan#1
11-27-2009, 05:51 PM
Actually, Federer is the head (?) of the advisory council for the board of directors of the ATP, so his voice is VERY powerful in men's tennis.

Yep, he's president of the ATP Players' Council.

TheTruth
11-27-2009, 05:56 PM
Actually, Federer is the head (?) of the advisory council for the board of directors of the ATP, so his voice is VERY powerful in men's tennis.

And the minutes of those meetings are in the boardroom, not in pressers. That's why those meetings aren't televised. If he has a problem he should be working on a solution rather than acting like a spoiled brat.

jamesblakefan#1
11-27-2009, 06:01 PM
And the minutes of those meetings are in the boardroom, not in pressers. That's why those meetings aren't televised. If he has a problem he should be working on a solution rather than acting like a spoiled brat.

Oh come on. I don't see you saying the same when Nadal does his monthly "The season is too long, no?" speech.

LiveForever
11-27-2009, 06:21 PM
Del Potro was losing when Fed complained and still only 2-6 vs Federer, Djokovic is 1-4 vs Federer in slams. :rolleyes:
Agreed. Lol. And I mean its not like Del Potro, Nadal, and Djokovic are such fluffy white bunnies. I mean they complain a lot themselves.

Mick
11-27-2009, 06:33 PM
murray is right. they should either enforce the rule or abolish it.

Alejandro D
11-27-2009, 07:02 PM
The umpires should be reasonable. After a 40 shots rally, they can allow some more time. But they should penalize the guy who takes 60 secs after a short point.

GustafsonFanatic
11-27-2009, 09:36 PM
This is true:shock: and so would every other player on the ATP and WTA, including Roger and Serena :cry: it happens every match, yet only highlighted for the select few :cry:

Some do it more often, that's indisputable. But even the fastest servers will take more than 20 secs at least 4-5 times a match, and sometimes even more than 25 secs after a long point.

So, if the rule were to be enforced on every single point everyone would be disqualified by the end of the match. If they want to enforce the rules all the time, then they should give servers more time (30 secs).

mandy01
11-27-2009, 09:58 PM
Some do it more often, that's indisputable. But even the fastest servers will take more than 20 secs at least 4-5 times a match, and sometimes even more than 25 secs after a long point.

So, if the rule were to be enforced on every single point everyone would be disqualified by the end of the match. If they want to enforce the rules all the time, then they should give servers more time (30 secs). There are times when Nadal,for instance, takes almost upto to 45 seconds to serve..they show it .
That is blatant abuse of the time-rule.
Nadal abuses the rule a lot more frequently than most other top players which is why he gets the heat.
It has nothing to do with him being a main rival/threat,etc. like some Nadal fanatics/Fed-haters seem to think
The rule cant be 'enforced' on every single point but the players need to be warned more frequently.
And you dont get disqualified for abusing the rule,you get a point penalty..

GustafsonFanatic
11-27-2009, 10:16 PM
There are times when Nadal,for instance, takes almost upto to 45 seconds to serve..they show it .
That is blatant abuse of the time-rule.
Nadal abuses the rule a lot more frequently than most other top players which is why he gets the heat.
It has nothing to do with him being a main rival/threat,etc. like some Nadal fanatics/Fed-haters seem to think
The rule cant be 'enforced' on every single point but the players need to be warned more frequently.
And you dont get disqualified for abusing the rule,you get a point penalty..

If you get more penalties, you lose a game or a match. I'm pretty sure everyone would lose a match this way.

But, true, Rafa is the main offender.

mandy01
11-27-2009, 10:18 PM
If you get more penalties, you lose a game or a match. I'm pretty sure everyone would lose a match this way.

But, true, Rafa is the main offender.not really..if they give even one point penalty the players might become more careful and try to increase their pace.

GustafsonFanatic
11-27-2009, 10:33 PM
Maybe, but he's right. And Murray doesn't take a lot of time to serve as well. Verdasco was taking too long sure, but the kings of time wasting are Nadal and Djokovic. Both bounce the bal so many times it's seriously annoying to watch (And I'm sure play against).

If some players think they could have won a particular match against Rafa or Novak if they did not get distracted by time-wasting, then let them complain to the players' council. If they don't complain, too bad for them.

Actually, Murray sometimes takes too long to serve as well. He is one the slower servers out there (slower than average).

GustafsonFanatic
11-27-2009, 10:34 PM
not really..if they give even one point penalty the players might become more careful and try to increase their pace.

OK, but a lot of players would get warned if the 20 seconds rule were enforced.

Maybe they can get as many opinions from different players as possible, and then see how many actually want the rule changed or modified. Some players may not like their opponents to quick-serve them either.

And how would they get the warning? Players don;t have stop-watches on them.

GustafsonFanatic
11-27-2009, 11:05 PM
___________________

they can use the 1-1000, 2-1000 , 3-1000 second count method that would get it pretty close or not?

lol too funny

This whole time-wasting business is very shady. If they suddenly started strictly enforcing the rule, it would be very distracting for many people. They should get as much agreement among players as possible. Maybe most of them don't mind.

mandy01
11-28-2009, 12:08 AM
OK, but a lot of players would get warned if the 20 seconds rule were enforced.

Maybe they can get as many opinions from different players as possible, and then see how many actually want the rule changed or modified. Some players may not like their opponents to quick-serve them either.

And how would they get the warning? Players don;t have stop-watches on them.
Thats a lame excuse really.You can always figure out if you've been taking excessive time.
Most of the time-wasting happens because of a whole routine the players go through in between points.I'm sure they're well aware that they're taking excessive time.
I'm not sure how the warning is given but I believe it based on how much a player abuses the time-rule.If the abuse is excessive he is supposed to receive a warning .
Also , a player may take a little over 20 seconds sometimes.Doing it frequently during the course of a match is what is supposed to get a warning or a point penalty.

If a rule is there its supposed to be followed.If some players dont like it its their problem.They cannot blatantly abuse the rule regardless of what they think about it.

MuseFan
11-28-2009, 12:09 AM
Honestly it all sounds like bitter grapes from Murray. He really should shut up and let his tennis do the talking. Win a slam first, then talk.

All-rounder
11-28-2009, 10:23 AM
Oh my big deal! :lol: 5-10 seconds doesn't make a big difference.
It is when nadal and djokovic fans brag about how high quality their matches are and how they push each other to the limits with marathon matches where in reality most of that time is wasted during their routine service games

Gorecki
11-28-2009, 11:15 AM
It is when nadal and djokovic fans brag about how high quality their matches are and how they push each other to the limits with marathon matches where in reality most of that time is wasted during their routine service games

i remember a thread where a poster counted of the time between serves by those 2 and it ended up in half - that is right - Half time...

CCNM
11-28-2009, 11:49 AM
All right Andy M!!! This guy should become an umpire when he retires.:)

kishnabe
11-28-2009, 12:03 PM
I think the Umpires should crack down on his Pushing GAME!

kishnabe
11-28-2009, 12:04 PM
All right Andy M!!! This guy should become an umpire when he retires.:)

At least he will win the umpire award you get at the wimbledon final. Possibly his best result there:twisted:!

Gorecki
11-29-2009, 08:09 AM
It was fate. It needed to be said again. Go computers!

i love you too. so how's things in Nadalete land? having though times i'nit?

NamRanger
11-29-2009, 08:13 AM
We've gone through this a million times. Of course umpires need to enforce rules, however the don't due to various reasons.

feetofclay
11-29-2009, 08:20 AM
There was an article in the London Times earlier this week. Here is a comment made about the subject

Henrietta J wrote:
"Nadal and Verdasco can take their time as far as I'm concerned - the tennis is well worth waiting for. Far more annoying is the attention constantly drawn to it by the commentators. When James Blake (one of the fastest players on the tour) was asked last year at Queens whether slower players annoyed him, he replied no, because every player has his own defence mechanisms and his was to play fast so that he doesn't have time to think, while some did it with routines. A pity everyone does not possess Blake's understanding and tolerance.""
November 26, 2009 9:14 PM GM

I agree with the sentiments expressed.

Bhagi Katbamna
11-29-2009, 08:30 AM
He has a point. They are called "rules" for a reason, otherwise they'd be called "suggestions".

Edit: James Blake certainly knows his game. He certainly plays without thinking. lol

DarthMaul
11-29-2009, 09:01 AM
Murray is right on this one. Well said

dh003i
11-29-2009, 09:39 AM
There was an article in the London Times earlier this week. Here is a comment made about the subject

Henrietta J wrote:
"Nadal and Verdasco can take their time as far as I'm concerned - the tennis is well worth waiting for. Far more annoying is the attention constantly drawn to it by the commentators. When James Blake (one of the fastest players on the tour) was asked last year at Queens whether slower players annoyed him, he replied no, because every player has his own defence mechanisms and his was to play fast so that he doesn't have time to think, while some did it with routines. A pity everyone does not possess Blake's understanding and tolerance.""
November 26, 2009 9:14 PM GM

I agree with the sentiments expressed.

Who cares what Blake says? It is a rule. His sympathy for rule-breakers doesn't matter.

And it is there for a reason, to be fair to different styles of players. Taking too long is unfair to players who play at a faster pace, who play shorter rallies and go for more winners.

Cesc Fabregas
11-29-2009, 11:22 AM
first i was not talking to you or about, you so what you think i could care less. how about a nice cup of STFU Idiot?

in fact it amuses me how you do nothing but adressing me by unsulting me and calling me an hypocrite when most of the tiem im not even talking to you or about you. i never said that i am in a moral higherground, unlike those pathetic nadaletes like you and that whinny peice of human incoherence that is the Truth...

so you have two options Idiot... Add me to your ignore list or report my post if they bother you!

here is a piece of advice: the last ones who decided to go on a rampage against me were: Maximo, Nadal Freak and King of aces... look out for their current status..

Nice threat tough guy. You've really scared the crap out of me.

makenakai
11-29-2009, 04:20 PM
Bravo Murray!

It was once noted that after the time limit was introduced (to stop long arguments...) players actually took longer to play, everyone started to use to full time when they used to just " not delay"

Given that useless tidbit...have you ever noticed Djok bounces 2-3x longer for a key serve? and usually gets a great one in after that...this is either to steady his nerves or to throw off a receiver (who has to be ready for...a looonger tiime...tough to when to D up.. ) or both. Nadal is notorious too. THIS IS ILLEGAL!. repeat. THIS IS ILLEGAL!. it is not a judgement call it is a technical call, over time or under time, like in or out. Sure players have their own rhythm and impose it on their opponents but they can only do so within the rules. A server can slow you down but not past time. A receiver can slow a server down (walk slow, not ready fast etc, ) but is supposed to be ready to receive quickly after a server is ready (now, this is a judgement call) Time limits are supposed to eliminate all that. allowing variance is unacceptable. look at what happened to Fed at USO on challenging? also BTW, why do umpires give an opinion when asked if a challenge should be made...? seems ridiculous to me, but they do, so the players ask..

mawashi
11-29-2009, 04:42 PM
Andy Murray hopes that officials will call time on slow play after the Scot was edged out of a semifinal place at this weekend's World Tour Finals on a statistical quirk.

The world No. 4 had to watch as Roger Federer lost in three sets in a late-night match to Juan Martin Del Potro, with the Swiss and the Argentine going through to the last four on the tennis equivalent of goal difference - winning game percentage.

But Murray has other issues with the new-look event, moved from Shanghai after a successful four-year run in Asia.

He'd like umpires to crack down on time-wasting, which he feels he may have experienced in his last group match, a win over Spain's Fernando Verdasco. He said that his opponent was taking his sweet time to return after changeovers.

"For me, if it's 25 seconds that you get between the points, I think some of the tournaments it's 20 seconds, and if you're over a couple of times, there has to be a warning," he said.

"When the umpire calls time, you should be out of your chair. That's it. That's the reason why they have those time limits.

"If the umpire calls time and your opponent is allowed to sit there for an extra 15 seconds, then I just don't think you should be allowed to do that."

http://www.tennistalk.com/en/news/20091127/Murray_wants_umpires_to_crack_down_on_go-slow_players

Another case of sour grapes from Mr. Sour himself. He's just nick picking cus he got kicked out of the competition, how many times have we seen him moping about, talking to himself n wasting time between points when things aren't going his way... sore loser!

mawashi

jamesblakefan#1
11-29-2009, 05:07 PM
Another case of sour grapes from Mr. Sour himself. He's just nick picking cus he got kicked out of the competition, how many times have we seen him moping about, talking to himself n wasting time between points when things aren't going his way... sore loser!

mawashi

Again, the post match interview and Murray's comments came BEFORE he knew he was out of the YEC. So it wasn't sour grapes.

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-29-2009, 05:14 PM
I want the umpire to crack down on Murray for tapping his racquet to distract his opponents.

mawashi
11-29-2009, 06:05 PM
Again, the post match interview and Murray's comments came BEFORE he knew he was out of the YEC. So it wasn't sour grapes.

He won 2 n lost 1 so he knew he wasn't guaranteed a place... sour grapes!

He's always had something to say when things aren't going his way.

mawashi

T1000
11-29-2009, 07:42 PM
I want the umpires to crack down on cheering unforced errors and double faults. STFU Murray, you're more annoying than the time wasters

shaysrebelII
11-29-2009, 07:43 PM
unbelievable. murray actually got one right...

jamesblakefan#1
11-29-2009, 07:48 PM
I want the umpires to crack down on cheering unforced errors and double faults. STFU Murray, you're more annoying than the time wasters

Every player does that, they just don't get as much notice as Murray. Maybe b/c his voice is so annoying. I can't count how many times JMDP (who I like, don't get me wrong) was cheering Soderlings UEs yesterday. Yet no one complains.

T1000
11-29-2009, 07:50 PM
Every player does that, they just don't get as much notice as Murray. Maybe b/c his voice is so annoying. I can't count how many times JMDP (who I like, don't get me wrong) was cheering Soderlings UEs yesterday. Yet no one complains.

Its not the cheering, but the double standards. Neither are classy but don't do one than b!tch about the other

nCode747
11-29-2009, 09:16 PM
They should call him Officer Murray.

jamesblakefan#1
11-29-2009, 09:27 PM
Its not the cheering, but the double standards. Neither are classy but don't do one than b!tch about the other

Yeah but cheering UEs isn't against the rules. Time violations are. I don't see how there's a double standard.

Omega_7000
12-01-2009, 08:17 AM
Yeah but cheering UEs isn't against the rules. Time violations are. I don't see how there's a double standard.

Agreed ...

P_Agony
12-01-2009, 08:24 AM
I wasn't watching the match intently, so I don't know, but I get tired of Federer's insistence on administering the rules on the tour. As long as I've been watching tennis I've never heard of a pro constantly complaining about how others play. Sampras and Agassi never did this to each other. So far, Roger has complained about Rafa, Djokovic, Del Potro, now Verdasco. I'm sorry. He's not the governing body and his insistence on putting these things in print is wrong.

You're getting tired of Fed following the rules :shock: ?

I'm sorry, but he's right, and Murray is too. I'm far from a Nadal hater but watching his service games is a pain for me (because of the time he takes before each serve). Heck, sometime I wish he would get the 1st one in just so I don't have to watch the whole service routine again. Same for Djokovic. Del Potro and Verdasco take their time as well, but not as much as the former too.

Federer is right 100% about this issue, and if you think your opponent is abusing the rules you have every right to complain about it to the umpire.

TMF
12-01-2009, 08:54 AM
Notice Rafa doesnít adjust his socks anymore, but still that doesnít drastically shorten time between point.

aphex
12-01-2009, 09:10 AM
I agree. Nadal and Djokovic aren't the only time abusers, there are many lower ranked players who take a lot of time as well. I think it's a cheap shot to say something about Verdasco though.

*If the umpire said Verdasco should play to Fed's pace, I think that's wrong too. I've never heard of an umpire saying something that ridiculous.

that's because you're a clueless muppet who only watches tennis to fantasize about rafito.

now go light a candle at your nadal shrine.

Rhino
12-01-2009, 09:37 AM
I don't like Murray but I agree with this.

P_Agony
12-01-2009, 10:48 AM
If some players think they could have won a particular match against Rafa or Novak if they did not get distracted by time-wasting, then let them complain to the players' council. If they don't complain, too bad for them.

Actually, Murray sometimes takes too long to serve as well. He is one the slower servers out there (slower than average).

I disagree, Murray has a pretty fast service motion. Not many ball bounces and then a quick serve.

Rafa, on the other hand, bounces the ball with the racquet about 5-7 times, then does his "thing" (you know what I'm talking about), then touches his hair a bit and then bounces the ball with the hand (about 10 times). After that his service motion is extremley slow.

Djokovic is also highly slow, I counted a few times where he bounced the ball 19 (!!!) times. That's crazy.

What I like about Fed is even when he's losing/playing badly he's still bouncing the ball exactly 3 times and serves right after. He's probably the fastest server on tour.

TheTruth
12-01-2009, 08:52 PM
that's because you're a clueless muppet who only watches tennis to fantasize about rafito.

now go light a candle at your nadal shrine.

And since I really respect your opinion...

TheTruth
12-01-2009, 09:00 PM
You're getting tired of Fed following the rules :shock: ?

I'm sorry, but he's right, and Murray is too. I'm far from a Nadal hater but watching his service games is a pain for me (because of the time he takes before each serve). Heck, sometime I wish he would get the 1st one in just so I don't have to watch the whole service routine again. Same for Djokovic. Del Potro and Verdasco take their time as well, but not as much as the former too.

Federer is right 100% about this issue, and if you think your opponent is abusing the rules you have every right to complain about it to the umpire.

I think the notion of the time "violations":

a. is ridiculous
b. making a big deal about it even more ridiculous.
c. taking one thing and blowing it out of proportion silly.
d. saying, "I don't do this, therefore..." insane.

Personally, I don't like the way Fed calls for challenges on clearly in balls, so the point has to be replayed and the player gets robbed of a winner. It happens way to often, imo.

People are free to disagree but that's my stance on the issue.

jamesblakefan#1
12-01-2009, 09:05 PM
Personally, I don't like the way Fed calls for challenges on clearly in balls, so the point has to be replayed and the player gets robbed of a winner. It happens way to often, imo.

People are free to disagree but that's my stance on the issue.

I don't get what you're saying here. If he challenges it and it's in, wouldn't it still be a winner and no point replay? :confused:

aphex
12-01-2009, 11:28 PM
And since I really respect your opinion...

No muppet. It's not opinion, it's fact.

Since you've never heard an umpire saying that the receiver should play at the server's pace, you are ***in fact***, clueless.

woodrow1029
12-02-2009, 07:45 AM
Personally, I don't like the way Fed calls for challenges on clearly in balls, so the point has to be replayed and the player gets robbed of a winner. It happens way to often, imo.

What are you talking about?

ksbh
12-02-2009, 08:00 AM
I have to agree with Andy Murray. The umpires need to do a better job, so self-righteous pri*cks like Federer can stop trying to do their job for them.

Not just the time wasting, there are other things that go unnoticed as well. For a start, I think they should fix the ACP and install a real ATP.

origmarm
12-02-2009, 08:24 AM
What are you talking about?

Yeah I really don't get that one also. Surely if the ball is in and it's a winner they don't replay the point?? Or am I missing something?

TheTruth
12-03-2009, 01:59 PM
When the ball looks like it's about to go out, but somehow miraculously hooks in and catches the line, a player can easily manipulate the situation by challenging an in ball that he may could have reached, but because of wrong footing, or slow reactions doesn't try to. In this case they replay the point, but the ball was in the whole time.

The in ball is then replayed and at that point the original pro who's ball was in can get rooked.

HellBunni
12-03-2009, 02:11 PM
When the ball looks like it's about to go out, but somehow miraculously hooks in and catches the line, a player can easily manipulate the situation by challenging an in ball that he may could have reached, but because of wrong footing, or slow reactions doesn't try to. In this case they replay the point, but the ball was in the whole time.

The in ball is then replayed and at that point the original pro who's ball was in can get rooked.

no...................you seem to be confused and trying to confuse the rest of us.

if the ball is called out, but looked like it was in, the receiving player will not challenge that.

if the ball that looked like it was going out but then hooks in and is thus called in, the receiving player may challenge the in call. (but he/she must stop play). If the call stands (the ball is in), the receiving player losses the point.

there is no replay..

an example of a replay point would be something like:
ball gets called out, while receiving player is near the ball. The player that hit the ball then challenges the call. The review shows that the ball is in and thus the call was wrong. THEN the umpire has to make a decision: was the receiving player in a position to return the ball had the out call not been made? If the receiving player was in position, then and only then is the point is replayed.

origmarm
12-03-2009, 02:31 PM
no...................you seem to be confused and trying to confuse the rest of us.

if the ball is called out, but looked like it was in, the receiving player will not challenge that.

if the ball that looked like it was going out but then hooks in and is thus called in, the receiving player may challenge the in call. (but he/she must stop play). If the call stands (the ball is in), the receiving player losses the point.

there is no replay..

an example of a replay point would be something like:
ball gets called out, while receiving player is near the ball. The player that hit the ball then challenges the call. The review shows that the ball is in and thus the call was wrong. THEN the umpire has to make a decision: was the receiving player in a position to return the ball had the out call not been made? If the receiving player was in position, then and only then is the point is replayed.

This is my understanding also. It's essentially very difficult to manipulate to any advantage.

Omega_7000
12-03-2009, 03:25 PM
no...................you seem to be confused and trying to confuse the rest of us.

if the ball is called out, but looked like it was in, the receiving player will not challenge that.

if the ball that looked like it was going out but then hooks in and is thus called in, the receiving player may challenge the in call. (but he/she must stop play). If the call stands (the ball is in), the receiving player losses the point.

there is no replay..

an example of a replay point would be something like:
ball gets called out, while receiving player is near the ball. The player that hit the ball then challenges the call. The review shows that the ball is in and thus the call was wrong. THEN the umpire has to make a decision: was the receiving player in a position to return the ball had the out call not been made? If the receiving player was in position, then and only then is the point is replayed.

Yup that's how I understand it too...

woodrow1029
12-03-2009, 03:29 PM
When the ball looks like it's about to go out, but somehow miraculously hooks in and catches the line, a player can easily manipulate the situation by challenging an in ball that he may could have reached, but because of wrong footing, or slow reactions doesn't try to. In this case they replay the point, but the ball was in the whole time.

The in ball is then replayed and at that point the original pro who's ball was in can get rooked.
LOL. Ok chief. Another great one from TheTruth!!

abmk
12-03-2009, 09:55 PM
I have to agree with Andy Murray. The umpires need to do a better job, so that arrogant rule-breakers like nadal,djokovic are stopped from flouting rules at will

Not just the time wasting, there are other things that go unnoticed as well. For a start, I think they should fix the ACP and install a real ATP.

There, fixed it for ya !

namelessone
12-03-2009, 10:00 PM
Notice Rafa doesn’t adjust his socks anymore, but still that doesn’t drastically shorten time between point.

You have noticed this only now? Rafa hasn't done this for about 2 years or so. It's actually the only OCD habit he has been able to quit.

namelessone
12-03-2009, 10:11 PM
Umpires don't have the guts to call out players who take too much time because it's actually quite a widespred phenomenon nowadays and the main offenders are rafa and djoker. Taking 10-15 seconds too long should bother the receiver but oddly enough I rarely saw other players being offended by rafa's and djoker's long serve motions. I suspect the main reason is that the receivers benefit as well by having more time to rest up,especially since today there are longer rallies and at higher speed than before. And you have to remember that rafa and djoker were doing this way before they were stars so I don't think it's favoritism on the umpires part.

I know what I would do: I would ENCOURAGE umpires to enforce the rules and only allow toweling once per game. That bit takes at least 5-10 seconds(just by going to get the towel,toweling off and coming back to serve) and they could wipe the sweat of the handle/palms on their shirts or pants or use that towel just once per game,like I said before. They don't need to towel off on every point.

Regarding the cheering UE's thing: I used to think like this too but when 2/3 of tennis players today do this it doesn't seem like a big issue anymore. When even the knowledgeable tennis crowds of WB cheered Wawrinka's UE's against Murray,you know that this gentleman's rule has become redundant.

P_Agony
12-04-2009, 12:36 AM
I think the notion of the time "violations":

a. is ridiculous
b. making a big deal about it even more ridiculous.
c. taking one thing and blowing it out of proportion silly.
d. saying, "I don't do this, therefore..." insane.


I'm sorry, but it looks like you think the time violations are ridiculous because your favorite player is the biggest abuser of the rules (and I'm not a Nadal hater). Those violations disturb the pace of the match, and as a result the focus of the opponent. Quite frankly, if it disturbs the viewer (and it does me), then I can understand how it annoys the players even more.

When I play tennis I can't stand even a 10 seconds delay.


Personally, I don't like the way Fed calls for challenges on clearly in balls, so the point has to be replayed and the player gets robbed of a winner. It happens way to often, imo.

People are free to disagree but that's my stance on the issue.

I have no idea what you're talking about here. When it's in, the ball is called a winner and they move on to the next point. No case here whatsoever.

P_Agony
12-04-2009, 12:43 AM
When the ball looks like it's about to go out, but somehow miraculously hooks in and catches the line, a player can easily manipulate the situation by challenging an in ball that he may could have reached, but because of wrong footing, or slow reactions doesn't try to. In this case they replay the point, but the ball was in the whole time.

The in ball is then replayed and at that point the original pro who's ball was in can get rooked.

All the players challenge shots like that, including Rafa. Again, you are trying to pick on Federer for no real reason this time. Federer is not perfect, but in terms of obeying the rules, he's very close to perfect. He's the fastest player on tour in terms of serving, if he challenges he doesn't take his sweet time to decide, he doesn't disturb his opponent.

Had Federer been the time waster and Nadal the fast one, I'm sure you'd be having complaints about Federer's awful time wasting habbits.

sh@de
12-04-2009, 03:55 AM
When the ball looks like it's about to go out, but somehow miraculously hooks in and catches the line, a player can easily manipulate the situation by challenging an in ball that he may could have reached, but because of wrong footing, or slow reactions doesn't try to. In this case they replay the point, but the ball was in the whole time.

The in ball is then replayed and at that point the original pro who's ball was in can get rooked.

Ok this is one of the worst posts I've ever seen from you Truth. Your posts normally make sense, but this one doesn't at all. Could you please explain what you are trying to say???

TheTruth
12-04-2009, 06:11 AM
I'm sorry, but it looks like you think the time violations are ridiculous because your favorite player is the biggest abuser of the rules (and I'm not a Nadal hater). Those violations disturb the pace of the match, and as a result the focus of the opponent. Quite frankly, if it disturbs the viewer (and it does me), then I can understand how it annoys the players even more.

When I play tennis I can't stand even a 10 seconds delay.



I have no idea what you're talking about here. When it's in, the ball is called a winner and they move on to the next point. No case here whatsoever.

No, I think it's a stupid rule, (the time violations) because it's been going on forever. The idea of time-wasting started with Federer complaining about Nadal and Djoker. Now some people will say Agassi started it, but I don't recall Agassi going into pressers repeatedly sowing that particular seed. And, seeing as this is how these two (Djoker and Nadal) have always played, even before becoming stars and it wasn't a problem then, it amazes me that it's such a travesty now. At the same time, let's only look at these two players. Everyone else on the tour gets a free pass. That's where the problem lies, not in him being my favorite player. He is, and I don't apologize for that, but it's the double standards that run rampant throughout.

Another example is, Fed complained about del Potro taking too much time at the Open, and then turned around and took waaay too much time himself to challenge a call later in the match and no one seems to remember that. I'd never seen or heard of del Po taking too much time to challenge. I think that if Delpo begins to beat Federer on a regular basis he will also be labeled as a cheater who takes too much time. Which is unfair, imo.

To the other posters. I'm not trying to confuse anyone, and I know what the rule is, but there are times when the ball is in, the linespeople don't make a call, the receiver could have tried for it, and didn't, so they call for a challenge on the in ball and the point is replayed because they didn't get in position. I've seen it many times.

In this way the receiver can manipulate the situation, because he missed it, and by challenging asserts that he thought the ball was out.

TheTruth
12-04-2009, 06:20 AM
All the players challenge shots like that, including Rafa. Again, you are trying to pick on Federer for no real reason this time. Federer is not perfect, but in terms of obeying the rules, he's very close to perfect. He's the fastest player on tour in terms of serving, if he challenges he doesn't take his sweet time to decide, he doesn't disturb his opponent.

Had Federer been the time waster and Nadal the fast one, I'm sure you'd be having complaints about Federer's awful time wasting habbits.

That's where you're wrong. I don't nitpick about anyone's serving rituals, or game style including Federer's. I think people are different, and differences should be respected. Period.

I may notice things about players, but complain? Please. I don't time to devote to Sharapova's screeching, Azarenka's imitation, Nadal's few seconds, or Djoker's ball bouncing. It doesn't detract from the game of tennis for me, so it's a non-issue.

Stop with the "you're picking on Federer" routine. It's annoying.

drakulie
12-04-2009, 06:32 AM
Why doesn't Murray just come out and say, "Umpires need to crack down on, Rafa?"

mawashi
12-04-2009, 06:39 AM
Why doesn't Murray just come out and say, "Umpires need to crack down on, Rafa?"

Why else... Cus Rafa will open a can of whoop ***** on that girly boy from clay to grass LOL!

mawashi

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-04-2009, 06:39 AM
What if somebody cracked Murray over the head?

mandy01
12-04-2009, 06:54 AM
No, I think it's a stupid rule, (the time violations) because it's been going on forever. The idea of time-wasting started with Federer complaining about Nadal and Djoker. Now some people will say Agassi started it, but I don't recall Agassi going into pressers repeatedly sowing that particular seed. And, seeing as this is how these two (Djoker and Nadal) have always played, even before becoming stars and it wasn't a problem then, it amazes me that it's such a travesty now. At the same time, let's only look at these two players. Everyone else on the tour gets a free pass. That's where the problem lies, not in him being my favorite player. He is, and I don't apologize for that, but it's the double standards that run rampant throughout.

Another example is, Fed complained about del Potro taking too much time at the Open, and then turned around and took waaay too much time himself to challenge a call later in the match and no one seems to remember that. I'd never seen or heard of del Po taking too much time to challenge. I think that if Delpo begins to beat Federer on a regular basis he will also be labeled as a cheater who takes too much time. Which is unfair, imo.

To the other posters. I'm not trying to confuse anyone, and I know what the rule is, but there are times when the ball is in, the linespeople don't make a call, the receiver could have tried for it, and didn't, so they call for a challenge on the in ball and the point is replayed because they didn't get in position. I've seen it many times.

In this way the receiver can manipulate the situation, because he missed it, and by challenging asserts that he thought the ball was out.TheTruth ,you are unfortunately plain wrong on many counts.First of all the idea of time-wasting was neither started nor promoted by Roger Federer.It existed well before he called out the constant abuse of the rule YOU think is ridiculous.And Federer dosent 'go on' about it in his pressers either.
Nadal has received warnings as he takes far too much time,same with Djokovic.However,it needs to be done more often IMO.
A lot of players also did not like the fact that Nadal would ask them to stop/wait before they served .It might make no difference to viewers but it disrupts the opponents rhythm.
The point is-The idea has existed with or without Federer speaking about it.
Regardless of what you think about Federer both he and Murray are right about this.
Now as to why only Djokovic and Nadal get called out on this-They are the
biggest abusers of the rule among top players.
It is unfair in a way..I agree with that.But the basic point remains-A player HAS to respect the rules laid out or they need to be enforced.

Now as to the USO incident-Lets NOT forget that the time Federer took was in part because of the umpire and time spent in confirming with the linesperson ,the actual call .Besides,since the umpire had allowed Del Po his time to challenge the call it was only fair to allow Roger to do the same.It is the umpire's decision to allow a player to challenge.So in no way is the player at fault.And no,Del Po or anyone beating Federer has nothing to do with anything here.
Besides,by picking out one incident you cannot cover up for the incessant time-wasting both Nadal and Djokovic indulge in inspite of being warned.
It may make no difference to you but it does make a difference to the opponent especially in a close match .
I dont know if Nadal does it on purpose-maybe he dosent-but it still needs to be checked.

markwillplay
12-04-2009, 07:27 AM
I think del po does take too much time. I hate the way all these guys are slowly walking up to the line to decide whether or not to challenge. That is not in the spirit of the rule... I think the rule is for calls that you immediately think are wrong. Fed is actually the only one I have not seen walk up to a line forever and then make a challenge. I am not a fed lover either..that is my observation of all of them. Delpo is possibley the worst, Nadal is pretty bad and even Davy was doing it a lot in the last tournament. I jhust think that if it is not obvious to the player he should move on and at the risk of you thinking that I am a fed lover (which again, I am not) he challenges quicker than any of the guys I have seen play on TV.

TheTruth
12-04-2009, 08:31 AM
I think del po does take too much time. I hate the way all these guys are slowly walking up to the line to decide whether or not to challenge. That is not in the spirit of the rule... I think the rule is for calls that you immediately think are wrong. Fed is actually the only one I have not seen walk up to a line forever and then make a challenge. I am not a fed lover either..that is my observation of all of them. Delpo is possibley the worst, Nadal is pretty bad and even Davy was doing it a lot in the last tournament. I jhust think that if it is not obvious to the player he should move on and at the risk of you thinking that I am a fed lover (which again, I am not) he challenges quicker than any of the guys I have seen play on TV.



This is true. He does challenge the quickest. An admirable trait.

I never noticed it with Del Potro and Davydenko, because I was already used to the players walking up to the line and checking balls on clay and hard, for years.

HellBunni
12-04-2009, 09:03 AM
To the other posters. I'm not trying to confuse anyone, and I know what the rule is, but there are times when the ball is in, the linespeople don't make a call, the receiver could have tried for it, and didn't, so they call for a challenge on the in ball and the point is replayed because they didn't get in position. I've seen it many times.

if the linespeople does not make a call, then the ball is considered in.
if the receiver didn't try to hit it and calls a challenge on the in ball.
If the ball was indeed in, the receiver loses the point, period. If the ball is out, then the receiver wins the point. THERE IS NO REPLAY

In this way the receiver can manipulate the situation, because he missed it, and by challenging asserts that he thought the ball was out.

doesn't matter, if the receiver thought the ball was out and challenges but is wrong, he loses the point.

Could you cite the "many times", so maybe we can understand what you are trying to depict better

SuperDuy
12-04-2009, 09:20 AM
Ya, most funny thing i see in tennis is when roddick impersonate djokeovick and bounce ball like 20 times without stopping

TheTruth
12-04-2009, 09:35 AM
All the players challenge shots like that, including Rafa. Again, you are trying to pick on Federer for no real reason this time. Federer is not perfect, but in terms of obeying the rules, he's very close to perfect. He's the fastest player on tour in terms of serving, if he challenges he doesn't take his sweet time to decide, he doesn't disturb his opponent.

Had Federer been the time waster and Nadal the fast one, I'm sure you'd be having complaints about Federer's awful time wasting habbits.

Ahh, you know what I'm talking about!

But, I'm not trying to pick on Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, or anyone else.

Every player has their own persona and we as fans choose what we like, or dislike. It's that simple to me.

I'm simply watching tennis, and although I see different things, they seem petty to me. I would never find something and make it an issue, because that to me, distracts from the actual tennis moreso than any ritual.

P_Agony
12-04-2009, 09:46 AM
That's where you're wrong. I don't nitpick about anyone's serving rituals, or game style including Federer's. I think people are different, and differences should be respected. Period.

I may notice things about players, but complain? Please. I don't time to devote to Sharapova's screeching, Azarenka's imitation, Nadal's few seconds, or Djoker's ball bouncing. It doesn't detract from the game of tennis for me, so it's a non-issue.

Stop with the "you're picking on Federer" routine. It's annoying.
but it's true! Fed is obeying the rules and it annoys you. I find it annoying as a viewer, so I can only guess how irritating it is to be at the other side of the net (in fact when I play I get very annoyed by it). djoko and rafa allow themselves way too much IMO

HellBunni
12-04-2009, 10:09 AM
Ahh, you know what I'm talking about!

But, I'm not trying to pick on Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, or anyone else.

Every player has their own persona and we as fans choose what we like, or dislike. It's that simple to me.

I'm simply watching tennis, and although I see different things, they seem petty to me. I would never find something and make it an issue, because that to me, distracts from the actual tennis moreso than any ritual.

it's not the ritual that is the issue. It's the violation of rules (written in the tennis rule book) and failure of empires or glorified scorekeepers to enforce those rules that is the issue here.

if the time thing is really a non-issue, then the rulebooks need to be updated. As long as the rule doesn't change, these players are breaking the rules of the game => cheating

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-04-2009, 10:21 AM
Super Duy,


Spell much and piece word together to make sentence?

TheTruth
12-06-2009, 03:57 AM
but it's true! Fed is obeying the rules and it annoys you. I find it annoying as a viewer, so I can only guess how irritating it is to be at the other side of the net (in fact when I play I get very annoyed by it). djoko and rafa allow themselves way too much IMO

You obviously didn't read my post. I'm not annoyed by any player's rituals, if I was I wouldn't watch them and then sit around complaining about it. What's the use of that?:confused:

TheTruth
12-06-2009, 04:00 AM
it's not the ritual that is the issue. It's the violation of rules (written in the tennis rule book) and failure of empires or glorified scorekeepers to enforce those rules that is the issue here.

if the time thing is really a non-issue, then the rulebooks need to be updated. As long as the rule doesn't change, these players are breaking the rules of the game => cheating

Give me a break! Why are Rafa and Djoker the only ones you all complain about?

This so-called rule has been ignored in tennis history forever, until Roger said something about it. Agassi may have mentioned it once, but Roger took it and ran with it, and so have his fans.

mandy01
12-06-2009, 04:35 AM
Give me a break! Why are Rafa and Djoker the only ones you all complain about?

This so-called rule has been ignored in tennis history forever, until Roger said something about it. Agassi may have mentioned it once, but Roger took it and ran with it, and so have his fans. Nadal and Djokovic have been receiving warnings much before Federer said something.Unfortunately they've never taken the warnings seriously.Roger did NOT 'run with it'.
You talk as if Federer goes around in every interview speaking about it.:rolleyes:

JeMar
12-06-2009, 03:17 PM
I think the notion of the time "violations":

a. is ridiculous
b. making a big deal about it even more ridiculous.
c. taking one thing and blowing it out of proportion silly.
d. saying, "I don't do this, therefore..." insane.

Personally, I don't like the way Fed calls for challenges on clearly in balls, so the point has to be replayed and the player gets robbed of a winner. It happens way to often, imo.

People are free to disagree but that's my stance on the issue.

So much failure in one post.

Didn't think it was possible. The follow-ups are almost worse.

ksbh
12-06-2009, 07:08 PM
No argument there and thanks for the edit! :)

Nadal, Djokovic etc should cut out their crap. I did comment on the time wasting in my post that you responded to but just didn't produce names. I think it was fairly obvious I was referring to Nadal/Djokovic but this post should clear that up.

There, fixed it for ya !

Gaudio2004
12-07-2009, 07:16 AM
Murray is totally right; the message is aimed at cheaters like Djokovic, Davydenko and Nadal.

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-07-2009, 09:43 AM
Are they cheating really?

vanity
12-07-2009, 09:50 AM
but it's true! Fed is obeying the rules and it annoys you.

Oh please, Federer breaking racquets is obeying the rules?

I find it annoying as a viewer, so I can only guess how irritating it is to be at the other side of the net (in fact when I play I get very annoyed by it). djoko and rafa allow themselves way too much IMO

You find it annoying because your boy finds it annoying. You are too much of a fanboy to have your own opinion on matters. Time wasting is not a big deal as long as tennis is still being played. So i don't follow Murray's opinion.

TMF
12-07-2009, 10:06 AM
You find it annoying because your boy finds it annoying. You are too much of a fanboy to have your own opinion on matters. Time wasting is not a big deal as long as tennis is still being played. So i don't follow Murray's opinion.

Time wasting is a BIG deal b/c it favors player like Rafa who needs more time to recuperate after wasting so much energy for running down balls, and for Novak who had breathing problem. Plus, players like to play fast pace on their serve like Andre and Federer are thrown off rhythm. Thatís cheating and Rafa pretends to act innocent.

Iím not supporting Murrayís comment either since he took a cheap shot by single out Verdasco at WTF. If he brings up Verdasco, he might as well bring up other names, especially a worst offender.....Rafa.

drakulie
12-07-2009, 10:18 AM
Time wasting is not a big deal as long as tennis is still being played.


so, it would be ok to you if a player after each point, goes to their hotel, packs their bags, flies home for a few days, then comes back to play the next point?

vanity
12-07-2009, 10:35 AM
Time wasting is a BIG deal b/c it favors player like Rafa who needs more time to recuperate after wasting so much energy for running down balls..

In other words, people are supposed to be like robots and not have a break? great!

ksbh
12-07-2009, 10:44 AM
Not to mention, his uttering of profanities at umpires. Poor example to set for young people watching tennis matches.

Oh please, Federer breaking racquets is obeying the rules?

drakulie
12-07-2009, 10:44 AM
In other words, people are supposed to be like robots and not have a break? great!

^^no, they are suppose to play within the rules. if they don't, they should be penalized. What is so hard about this concept??

drakulie
12-07-2009, 10:47 AM
Not to mention, his uttering of profanities at umpires. Poor example to set for young people watching tennis matches.

and he should be penalized.

again, what is so hard about grasping this concept?? You think Federer breaking one racquet somehow makes it ok for nadal to break the time rule on every single point where he is serving??

they are both wrong, and both should be penalized. period.

TMF
12-07-2009, 10:49 AM
In other words, people are supposed to be like robots and not have a break? great!

Everything has limitation and that's why there are rules. If not, there's no control and player like Rafa will cheat by wasting time, which hurts the integrity of the game.

Do you want to see a 3 set match that can last for 10 hours???

drakulie
12-07-2009, 10:50 AM
Everything has limitation and that's why there are rules. If not, there's no control and player like Rafa will cheat by wasting time, which hurts the integrity of the game.

Do you want to see a 3 set match that can last for 10 hours???


It's ok,,,,,,,,,, as long as they are playing tennis. :roll:

fps
12-07-2009, 10:55 AM
you should play to the server.

it's pretty obvious federer has to play to nadal's speed when serving to him, and that isn't right.

when rafa serves, when anyone serves, all that should happen is that the rule should be enforced.

sometimes you have to be sensible, like when there's an epic point and the guys need a breather. but usually what happens is a 20 second ritual of grabbing the towel and walking around to avoid having to psychologically bow to the other player by waiting around for them in ready/serve position.

TMF
12-07-2009, 11:01 AM
It's ok,,,,,,,,,, as long as they are playing tennis. :roll:

Yeah, 50% standing around; 30% sitting down; 15% aligning the water bottles, pick his b***, adjusting his socks, etc.; and the rest is 5% is tennis.

vanity
12-07-2009, 11:01 AM
Everything has limitation and that's why there are rules. If not, there's no control and player like Rafa will cheat by wasting time, which hurts the integrity of the game.

Do you want to see a 3 set match that can last for 10 hours???

Again, huge exaggerations which arn't reasonable. A 3 set match will never be 10 hours long so lets not be daft here. You make it sound as if Nadal spends 5 minutes resting between each point. And that's just not right.

vanity
12-07-2009, 11:03 AM
It's ok,,,,,,,,,, as long as they are playing tennis. :roll:

Of course, because players will spend 20 minutes resting between each point... :roll:

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-07-2009, 11:22 AM
Yeah, 50% standing around; 30% sitting down; 15% aligning the water bottles, pick his b***, adjusting his socks, etc.; and the rest is 5% is tennis.

ahahahahahah

You do have a point way too much time wasted. Its like playing golf behind some old codger with a walk behind bag. It can take 5 hours to play.

P_Agony
12-07-2009, 12:03 PM
Oh please, Federer breaking racquets is obeying the rules?



You find it annoying because your boy finds it annoying. You are too much of a fanboy to have your own opinion on matters. Time wasting is not a big deal as long as tennis is still being played. So i don't follow Murray's opinion.

Yes, because we've known each other for so long and you have read so many of my posts that you can pass judgment. Not.

A) It's annoying, and it doesn't annoy Federer only - this thread is proof of that.

B) I actually play tennis and I can't stand it myself. If you ever held a racquet on a tennis court (which it looks like you never have) you should know that focus is perhaps the biggest part of this game. Waiting for your opponent to serve takes away your focus and disturbs the pace of the match, and you'd more likely hit uncharacteristic errors due to it.

C) Federer got his much deserved fines for breaking the racquet and yelling at the umpires. He did not obey the rules and got punished for it. He does not do it on a consistent basis, something you cannot say for the time wasters.

D) There are rules. Federer didn't write them. The rules are there for something, and the players should obey them. I find it too funny that some *******s such as yourself cannot understand this simple concept. I'm sure if the situation was different (Fed as the time waster) you'd be all over the subject bashing Federer in 20 different threads.

ksbh
12-07-2009, 12:07 PM
D ... couldn't agree more! :)

Anyone who breaks the rules, no matter who he is, should be penalized. It doesn't appear like that will happen anytime soon and much less that the ACP will do anything about it!

and he should be penalized.

again, what is so hard about grasping this concept?? You think Federer breaking one racquet somehow makes it ok for nadal to break the time rule on every single point where he is serving??

they are both wrong, and both should be penalized. period.

TheMusicLover
12-07-2009, 03:51 PM
D ... couldn't agree more! :)

Anyone who breaks the rules, no matter who he is, should be penalized. It doesn't appear like that will happen anytime soon and much less that the ACP will do anything about it!

Word. 10 chars.

NamRanger
12-07-2009, 04:48 PM
Again, huge exaggerations which arn't reasonable. A 3 set match will never be 10 hours long so lets not be daft here. You make it sound as if Nadal spends 5 minutes resting between each point. And that's just not right.




Nadal clearly wastes time on purpose however. I think that is an indisputable fact. In fact, only Djokovic comes close to wasting as much time as Nadal does.

malakas
12-07-2009, 04:50 PM
why are you all taking maximommy seriously????

TheMusicLover
12-07-2009, 04:57 PM
why are you all taking maximommy seriously????

A welcome reminder! :)

Mm10
12-31-2009, 02:46 AM
When I'm watching tennis on TV i get a little impatient waiting for players to start again. Not just after their breaks but when they walk to the back of the court to choose balls and then the amount times they bounce the ball and then it starts all over again if they don't get the first serve in. Having said that, that's just the way tennis is!