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View Full Version : finally got my kicker in....


moroni
11-27-2009, 11:37 AM
hey guyzz...
im really happy 2day cuz i actually got my first kicker in in an a match...

well i practised the kick serve for around 45 minz last week and for 25 minz today before match play....

well I only got it to kick up to 5.6 feet (I only use it for a second serve) and the guy i was playing was 5.8 so he couldnt return the serve .... well my question is the following .. Is this good progress? since I only watched 4 hourz of kick serve videos and only practised it for an hour/ an hour and a half...And the second question is this ..Do I need it to kick up more if were playing lets say.. a 6.1/6.2 guy or is 5.6-5.8 feet good for a kick serve??

xFullCourtTenniSx
11-27-2009, 12:00 PM
hey guyzz...
im really happy 2day cuz i actually got my first kicker in in an a match...

well i practised the kick serve for around 45 minz last week and for 25 minz today before match play....

well I only got it to kick up to 5.6 feet (I only use it for a second serve) and the guy i was playing was 5.8 so he couldnt return the serve .... well my question is the following .. Is this good progress? since I only watched 4 hourz of kick serve videos and only practised it for an hour/ an hour and a half...And the second question is this ..Do I need it to kick up more if were playing lets say.. a 6.1/6.2 guy or is 5.6-5.8 feet good for a kick serve??

Well, I have to say, unless you had very good fundamentals on your serve as well as a very good and solid slice serve, you didn't hit a real kick serve or you're exceptionally talented.

Again, if you had already mastered the slice serve and have solid serve fundamentals, then this is good progress. Otherwise, something's wrong in either your technique or you not picking up tennis when you were 3-5 years old.

moroni
11-27-2009, 12:06 PM
my slice serve is exeptionally good ... its better than my topspin serve which I use around 70% of the time ... Now that I think about it I only get aces with my slice serves... I rarely get any with my topspin serve maybe thats y i'm getting the hang of kick serves really fast

xFullCourtTenniSx
11-27-2009, 12:09 PM
my slice serve is exeptionally good ... its better than my topspin serve which I use around 70% of the time ... Now that I think about I only get aces with my slice serves... I rarely get any with my topspin serve maybe thats y i'm getting the hang of kick serves really fast

If you have a topspin serve, that affects your ability to produce a kicker far more than you being able to hit a slice serve.

A topspin serve is essentially the basic kick serve, and a slice serve is essentially a basic topspin serve.

If you have a solid topspin serve, there's no need for a true kick serve.

LeeD
11-27-2009, 01:49 PM
I don't agree.
My topspin serves are mainly for second serves, sometimes first medium fast with upperchest bounce at the baseline.
My twist to a 6' tall player normally bounces around middle of his face, well higher than any topspin serve. I don't hit a kick/slice.
Of course, when I play a couple exDiv1 singles guys, both 6'6", I have to kick it up higher for effectiveness. They kick about 10-14" above the top of my head when I'm standing on the baseline.

USERNAME
11-27-2009, 09:18 PM
If you have a topspin serve, that affects your ability to produce a kicker far more than you being able to hit a slice serve.

A topspin serve is essentially the basic kick serve, and a slice serve is essentially a basic topspin serve.

If you have a solid topspin serve, there's no need for a true kick serve.

Nah Kickers are essential. They are really good to throw off ur opponent and are usually pretty consistant (good for 2nd serves or 1st serves under pressure.)

xFullCourtTenniSx
11-29-2009, 11:45 AM
Nah Kickers are essential. They are really good to throw off ur opponent and are usually pretty consistant (good for 2nd serves or 1st serves under pressure.)

No... They are overrated. Unless you can place them and twist them like Federer and Rafter with that much kick, then a strong topspin serve will do well enough to keep you in points.

Sampras never hit a true kick serve, it was always a big booming topspin serve or a topspin slice serve.

Fernando Gonzalez's second serves are primarily slice serves with some topspin.

Nadal can hit a kick serve, but primarily uses nothing but topspin slice serves.

The biggest thing you get from a kicker is the added angle out wide on the ad court and the ability to use the spin to hit body serves. But not too many people can consistently kick a good wide one (and many choose not to), but a decent amount of smart players use the body serve, though they can do the same with a slice serve or a topspin serve into the body (though the topspin serve won't spin into them like a true kicker or a slice).

LeeD
11-29-2009, 11:50 AM
I'm with USERNAME....
The more weapons you own, the more choices you have when you need them.
KISS works sometimes, but sometimes, having the choice and the ability to hit various shots gets us just that little bit better.
I think everyone needs a twist out wide, away from the opposition and into the doubles alley.

CallOfBooty
11-29-2009, 05:35 PM
First off I would like to say If you have only been practicing the kicker for an hour, and you can get it to bounce 5.6 feet that is pretty good. Unless you are hitting it straight up with a toss behind you, then maybe it's possible. If you are tossing it straight above your head and your kicker is kicking 5.6 feet and hitting the back fence before the second bounce, then that is great progress and you are on your way to a big weapon.

Second I would like to say the more serves you have, the better. On your first serve you have a choice of hitting ANY serve you want. Your opponent won't know what kind of serve it is, what pace you have on it, where it will go, and more importantly, what spin it will have. If you hit a flat serve and it bounces stomach height and they get used to that and put their racket face at knee level at every first serve, you are in trouble. Mix it up with a slice serve and make them bend low. Now that is just with two serves. Imagine what options you will have with two more serves. Now you have a kick/twist serve that will curve into the backhand corner and twist out forcing your opponent to bend all the way over. If your opponent is worrying about a good twist serve and cheating over, hit a topspin serve at the same spot and it will jam his backhand because it won't be spinning away from him. Variety is a very good serving weapon. As long as you are not hitting serves at 40mph, switching up the type of serve you hit will make a big difference.

yemenmocha
11-29-2009, 05:44 PM
Kicker is overrated once you're at a certain level, unless (like someone else said) you have amazing accuracy with it. Any kick serve landing short will be attacked effectively by most advanced players.

USERNAME
11-29-2009, 08:58 PM
Kicker is overrated once you're at a certain level, unless (like someone else said) you have amazing accuracy with it. Any kick serve landing short will be attacked effectively by most advanced players.

I use it quite a bit in opens and nationals, dont have any problems with it gettig smacked in the corner for winners. I use it as a 1st serve when the pressure is on because I kno its a safe serve. If u hit it right and with enough head speed it really is a great weapon.

xFullCourtTenniSx
11-29-2009, 10:05 PM
I'm with USERNAME....
The more weapons you own, the more choices you have when you need them.
KISS works sometimes, but sometimes, having the choice and the ability to hit various shots gets us just that little bit better.
I think everyone needs a twist out wide, away from the opposition and into the doubles alley.

I agree the variety being a good thing, but how many players REALLY can place their second serve to the point where it's actually a real benefit to own one? Especially in singles? Very few! Too many people rely on sheer power and kick, which you can easily get with a topspin serve. Most people just serve the ball into the corner, which is a solid way to keep them back and guessing, but it's not really attacking them (unless it's a hard one).

Now in doubles, more emphasis is put on placement (so as to set up the net player), so you will see more well placed serves. That is where the kicker becomes a valuable weapon! Not to say that with the same placement a topspin serve won't be effective, but a kicker gains effectiveness with the more angle you hit it with just like a slice serve, only more severe due to it kicking up. And in doubles, you serve from a more severe angle as well (to cover your side and because the down the line serve is covered). If you're a doubles specialist, it will help a lot to own a kicker, where variation and placement are focused more on than in singles.

In singles, if people did serve like that, then serving from the ad court pretty much means you're almost guaranteed the point, because you kick it out wide, opening up the court and drawing a weak return that you can hit for a winner with a dip drive, volley, or overhead. I did actually serve like this once (sometimes still do as change-up), and it made me a deadly server on the ad court. Playing singles, it just meant I had a safe serve to rely on that I could follow up for a winner. Playing doubles, it meant the net man had an easy put-away. This is why Federer plays so well on second serve points. He owns this serve. If people step in, he kicks it out wide and opens up the court and finishes with a forehand down the line. If people step back, he kicks it out wide and follows it to the net for an easy volley.

If people DID serve like that, people would be winning at least 50% of their second serve points. But people rarely serve like that because few people want to take the risk and few people think of much other than overwhelming the opponent with the serve itself instead of what they do with the serve.

Second I would like to say the more serves you have, the better. On your first serve you have a choice of hitting ANY serve you want. Your opponent won't know what kind of serve it is, what pace you have on it, where it will go, and more importantly, what spin it will have. If you hit a flat serve and it bounces stomach height and they get used to that and put their racket face at knee level at every first serve, you are in trouble. Mix it up with a slice serve and make them bend low. Now that is just with two serves. Imagine what options you will have with two more serves. Now you have a kick/twist serve that will curve into the backhand corner and twist out forcing your opponent to bend all the way over. If your opponent is worrying about a good twist serve and cheating over, hit a topspin serve at the same spot and it will jam his backhand because it won't be spinning away from him. Variety is a very good serving weapon. As long as you are not hitting serves at 40mph, switching up the type of serve you hit will make a big difference.

The more serves you have only makes a difference if you can use them properly, which few people do.

Mastery of placement is what people should focus on. But few people do. They just throw in bombs with heavy spin, which is good too... But it'd be twice as effective if thrown accurately. Sampras mastered all 3 in addition to disguise, so he was the undisputed king of servers. Federer is close in terms of accuracy, equal in terms of disguise, maybe better in terms of spin (second serve only though), and a little below in terms of pace.

Overall, few people choose to place their kickers well enough to actually make good use of it.

LeeD
11-30-2009, 07:01 AM
Sorry, but that's just a post full of contradictions!
First your refer to lower level players, then you use Sampras as an example.
OK, I'll agree an AmericanTwist is not the serve of choice for a real 3.0 player.
Then I'll add that as an almost 4.5 and above, you NEED all the serves, you practice all the serves, and you can PLACE all the serves within 18" of your target. At least the serves you choose to use in a match.
As a 5.5 player, you should have all the serves, but choose to use a few of them most of the time, and you can place those serves within 10" of the target, the target being width placement, not depth.
As you get better, you can hit one gallon milk jugs pretty much 50% of the time, or hit so the bounce goes directly over them.
However, sometimes the brain goes dead, and the body choose safe and what worked before, rather than what you CAN do.

xFullCourtTenniSx
11-30-2009, 01:43 PM
I use it quite a bit in opens and nationals, dont have any problems with it gettig smacked in the corner for winners. I use it as a 1st serve when the pressure is on because I kno its a safe serve. If u hit it right and with enough head speed it really is a great weapon.

You can say the exact same thing about a topspin serve! The only thing that makes a kicker any better of a serve is if you can place it extremely well!

Sorry, but that's just a post full of contradictions!
First your refer to lower level players, then you use Sampras as an example.
OK, I'll agree an AmericanTwist is not the serve of choice for a real 3.0 player.
Then I'll add that as an almost 4.5 and above, you NEED all the serves, you practice all the serves, and you can PLACE all the serves within 18" of your target. At least the serves you choose to use in a match.
As a 5.5 player, you should have all the serves, but choose to use a few of them most of the time, and you can place those serves within 10" of the target, the target being width placement, not depth.
As you get better, you can hit one gallon milk jugs pretty much 50% of the time, or hit so the bounce goes directly over them.
However, sometimes the brain goes dead, and the body choose safe and what worked before, rather than what you CAN do.

I never once said this only applies to lower level players, nor did I make any mention to specific play levels!

How many 5.0 players constantly nail the sideline 5 feet up with a kicker? 5% at most. How many 6.0 players do that? 5%. How many 7.0 players? Maybe 2%... Very few people place the serve well enough to make the most of it.

And if a 3.0 player could pull off a real kicker consistently, then that player should abuse it as much as possible!

And all the way up to the 7.0 level, you don't NEED a kicker. A topspin serve works just as well.

And your last sentence is exactly my point! Players who actually practice this serve CAN pull it off in matches, but how many choose to do it? If they don't use it, why even own the serve or practice it at all?! You wasted hours that could've been spent improving other parts of your game!

I've played topspin serves and twisting kick serves into the backhand corners, and really there was no big benefit from even using a kick serve other than the fact that I can say I own one and it looks cooler when it dances in the air and bounces the other way. But on the ad court, when I placed the serve on the sideline, I really got a lot of extra angle and that took my opponents out of the point.

Aside from when I put that kicker short onto the sideline, there is no benefit from owning a kick serve, If you frequently choose to place your serve there, then by all means use that kick serve - it'll help out a lot! But how many people serve the ball there, especially on second serves? Like I said, gotta be less than .1% of the tennis-playing population.

A high bouncing second serve with decent pace into the backhand corner or the forehand corner will serve you well even if it's not a kicker. If you get the ball to bounce high enough with enough penetration and pace, you don't have to do more with it than put it into the corner.

I will say though, kickers are harder to run around and hit with the forehand (for people with the same playing hand as you), but overall most of the consistent returners won't bother doing that and will just place the ball deep to the sides.

LeeD
11-30-2009, 01:55 PM
Benefits.... of kick..
I see YOU use it, USERNAME uses it, I use it. So 3 guys see the benefits of the kicker, but you won't admit it's a useful serve.
Now how many more guys use the kicker?
How many players who don't have it?
Just because it's used seldom, doesn't mean it's not needed.

xFullCourtTenniSx
11-30-2009, 02:08 PM
Benefits.... of kick..
I see YOU use it, USERNAME uses it, I use it. So 3 guys see the benefits of the kicker, but you won't admit it's a useful serve.
Now how many more guys use the kicker?
How many players who don't have it?
Just because it's used seldom, doesn't mean it's not needed.

I use it because it's the first serve I learned, the serve I practice the most, and the serve I'm most comfortable hitting.

And I've used it for a long time and that's why I can see whether the benefits are large enough to justify learning it or not. Bottom line, they aren't unless you're really accurate with your placement.

Given enough time, some people's topspin serves naturally evolve into kickers and they just keep practicing their topspin serve that happens to kick on them. All that matters is that the serve goes up and out of the opponent's strike zone, which is the primary reason (not the twist) that keeps my opponents back on the return. Now when I get some good angle on it, the twist becomes a massive weapon and I've forced an error or a weak serve. With a high-bouncing serve, I give them the option of taking the risk of using a big return that might miss or just playing the solid consistent return back. People that decide to take a swing usually can't keep it down in the court or miss it into the net. A few of the better players can do it consistently, but more often than not, they'll choose the consistent return deep.

LeeD
12-01-2009, 06:52 AM
So why do you recommend that no one else should practice the kicker/twists?
Seems most of us use it in matches, and you seem to be taking away that serve.

Slazenger07
12-01-2009, 08:19 AM
You guys seem to be able to make your kickers jump up high, Im having alot of trouble with that, are there any things you guys do technically that give your serves more topspin?

LeeD
12-01-2009, 01:57 PM
More topspin is great, but the key is more net clearance and bigger arc, so the ball bounces higher. My kicks only twist out wide to duece court (me lefty), as the longer court and higher net allows a higher hit arcing ball.
I CAN kick wide on ad court, but usually I go for low slice out wide of the intersect lines.

jmjmkim
12-01-2009, 02:35 PM
Pretty good for such a short time

fruitytennis1
12-01-2009, 03:24 PM
Kick serve works great for me. Ill send a few slice serves either in a jam position or out-wide then hit a kick serve down the middle or wide. I often get a free point from that. Also we are refering to kick as in a twist serve right?? Or just a high bouncing topspin serve.

USERNAME
12-01-2009, 06:12 PM
Yeah me and LeeD are on the same page. I used a topspin serve for awhile as a 2nd or safe serve, and it does work really well but I find that the kicker surprises the players more. Once they get used to it I can always increase the angle or spin (or both) to still catch them a little off guard, yes doing that may lower the % but its still considerably more safe then a flat serve. Now Im not saying throw out the topspin serve all together, I still use that as a 1st serve sometimes.

fruitytennis1
12-01-2009, 06:41 PM
I never do a lesser kick if you understand my wording. I always go for the full hit out serve either down the T or outwide. Small problem is when I use it like that its like a 50% serve. I find slice/topsin works well for second serves.

USERNAME
12-01-2009, 06:47 PM
I never do a lesser kick if you understand my wording. I always go for the full hit out serve either down the T or outwide. Small problem is when I use it like that its like a 50% serve. I find slice/topsin works well for second serves.

I rarely slice on 2nd serves (just not 100% confident with it yet) and I get what you mean. I never aim for the line on 2nd serves unless Im up like 40-0 or 40-15, I give myself a good margin making it easier for me to go for more (in terms of pace and spin) on 2nd serves. Still place it very well just not as aggressively as a 1st serve.

fruitytennis1
12-01-2009, 06:58 PM
Just as a question to the Op how can you tell how high (to the inch) your serve bounced unless its like less than 20mph.

Tennis_Monk
12-01-2009, 07:04 PM
Just clarifying the definition so that i can understand better. Is a Kicker thats being referred by lots of posters an American Twist serve whereas a TopSpin serve is basically a serve that lands in and kick up high but no sidespin ?

Bungalo Bill
12-02-2009, 06:33 AM
Just clarifying the definition so that i can understand better. Is a Kicker thats being referred by lots of posters an American Twist serve whereas a TopSpin serve is basically a serve that lands in and kick up high but no sidespin ?

It can mean both nowadays.

LeeD
12-02-2009, 07:00 AM
I've posted before, but I'm still getting older....
Flat firsts, maybe just over 100, bounce about hip high to most players 6' tall.
Topspin first, hit fast, about mid chest.
Topspin seconds, hit only guided to backhand or forehand side, mid chest.
Twist wide on duece, me lefty, close to mid face height on good ones, higher on great ones, and chin high on short ones.
I choose not to hit a twist on ad court (me lefty) due to shorter court and lower net.
I don't hit kicks into the ad court. Just too much to practice for an aging 60 year oldster.

xFullCourtTenniSx
12-02-2009, 06:09 PM
More topspin is great, but the key is more net clearance and bigger arc, so the ball bounces higher. My kicks only twist out wide to duece court (me lefty), as the longer court and higher net allows a higher hit arcing ball.
I CAN kick wide on ad court, but usually I go for low slice out wide of the intersect lines.

Haha. Anyone that can place a kicker can hit one wide on the deuce side (ad for lefties), though how many choose to do that? :wink: I'd rather hit a topspin slice that jumps up and spins away from them.

Then again, you being a lefty, it'll be a pain in the *** to us right handed players anyway. :? I'd rather have a kicker to the backhand that jumps away from it instead of into it... Serves that spin into the body just aren't fun...

Just as a question to the Op how can you tell how high (to the inch) your serve bounced unless its like less than 20mph.

Compare it to the player you're playing against. Generally they'll take it around the baseline, and that's where most players will measure it. You want to know how tall they are though before you use them as a relative measurement.

I've posted before, but I'm still getting older....
Flat firsts, maybe just over 100, bounce about hip high to most players 6' tall.
Topspin first, hit fast, about mid chest.
Topspin seconds, hit only guided to backhand or forehand side, mid chest.
Twist wide on duece, me lefty, close to mid face height on good ones, higher on great ones, and chin high on short ones.
I choose not to hit a twist on ad court (me lefty) due to shorter court and lower net.
I don't hit kicks into the ad court. Just too much to practice for an aging 60 year oldster.

Hmm... Used to get flat serves to bounce up to chest or shoulder height (though they had a hint of topspin), but now that seems difficult for me and they only get maybe hip to chest height with new balls. Hard topspin serves are more or less the same with a little more bounce and less pace. Second serve topspin serves range from shoulder to a few inches above the head. Twist serves range from shoulder to a few inches above the head. I've been practicing those more though, so they get a few inches added to my topspin serve's bounce.

My ruler is 5'10" to 5'11".

Oh, and slice serves on deuce court bounce from chest height to above the head. On the ad court it's usually around chest height.

Slazenger07
12-03-2009, 06:45 AM
Ok well what do you do to get more arch then, because thats my problem, ball usually barely clears the net, then when it hits the court it seems to have much more sidespin action than topspin, so it doesnt behave as a kick serve would. Ive tried hitting up really fast but still the same result.

can anybody help me out?

LeeD
12-03-2009, 06:56 AM
Approximate bounce heights, for me, are current 60 year oldster serving, also against a equal height player, 5'11" is good.
I play where the temperature is usually between 55-65 degrees, with actual court temps, cement, lower. Mostly using DunlopHardCourt balls, sometimes the fuzzier Penns, which don't last 3 sets before getting soft.
I haven't played tennis in temps over 80 in 15 years, in Oahu.
I haven't played a tournament in over 80 in 28 years.
We get sun in Berkeley, but I don't play in the summers, and sunny days over 70 is too hot for me.
That MIGHT affect the bounce height of my serves. Berkeley is sea level.

Slazenger07
12-03-2009, 08:50 AM
LeeD thats all good but could you explain some of the technical things you do to get more arch on the twist serve?

xFullCourtTenniSx
12-03-2009, 07:34 PM
Ok well what do you do to get more arch then, because thats my problem, ball usually barely clears the net, then when it hits the court it seems to have much more sidespin action than topspin, so it doesnt behave as a kick serve would. Ive tried hitting up really fast but still the same result.

can anybody help me out?

... AIM up?

I can hit up and still get the ball to hit the net... It just means I was aiming low...

Aim to hit the ball 10 feet over the net with your regular form. You might hit them out starting out, but you'll get solid amounts of kick if you aren't using dead balls. Also, you won't actually be able to hit it 10 feet over the net with proper form no matter how hard you try. And finally, you might get it in perfectly aiming for 10 feet over the net, which would be nice... Doesn't always happen, but it does occasionally... I personally aim 5-10 feet over when I want more kick, still doesn't go much higher than maybe 3 or 4 feet higher... :-?

Bungalo Bill
12-03-2009, 08:03 PM
Ok well what do you do to get more arch then, because thats my problem, ball usually barely clears the net, then when it hits the court it seems to have much more sidespin action than topspin, so it doesnt behave as a kick serve would. Ive tried hitting up really fast but still the same result.

can anybody help me out?

Yes, I can help you out. Just read through this to gain some understanding.

If you are learning a spin serve, one of the best ways is to move to the back fence and spin loopy serves high in the air and let them land where they land. Don't worry about hitting them over the net or in the service box. What you want to learn is how to use your legs, where to toss the ball, and how to swing your racquet to get the desired bounce you are looking for.

When you feel you got it, then move up to the baseline and begin serving using a faster motion and more of your legs. When you get the desired bounce, pick-up the pace till you are at full speed with your swing.

YOU NEED TO PRACTICE LIKE THIS UNTIL YOU CAN GET THE DESIRED BEHAVIOR ON DEMAND AT FULL SPEED.

The other thing you need to know is what is included in the meaning when someone says "you need to hit up." Hitting up includes your overall serve motion, arm, legs and it also includes KEEPING YOUR HEAD UP.

When the ball is going down and barely clearing the net, especially on a spin serve, chances are your head is coming down and it is bringing your arm down with it.

When you practice as indicated above, learn to keep your head up and watch the blur of your arm go by before you allow your head to come down. Let the spin and gravity bring the ball down on the court.

When I was learning the serve (especially the twist) our coach challenged us to see who could hit it up in the air the highest and have it land in the court near the service box (or in it) from the back fence and get the desired behavior with the ball at the bounce.

Hit up on the ball. Practice looping it first.

Swinging up means that not only should your efforts in your serve motion being going up but also keeping your head up.

Slazenger07
12-04-2009, 03:54 PM
Ok thx Bill, Ill think about hitting up and keeping my head up and see if that helps.

tennis angel
12-04-2009, 07:18 PM
You guys seem to be able to make your kickers jump up high, Im having alot of trouble with that, are there any things you guys do technically that give your serves more topspin?

Hit up and across from left to right, leading with the edge of your racket and opening up at the very last second. Use your triceps to hit up on the ball. Turn the back of your hand inward toward your ear when you take the racket back and pronate your arm as you brush the ball from left to right, snapping your wrist outward (not downward). Try starting the serve motion with your racket already behind you or on your head until you get the hang of the left to right motion.

LeeD
12-05-2009, 07:41 AM
..and swing faster, slightly upwards, so the zenith of your kick serves get up around 11' high, causing a big arc downwards to bounce really high at the baseline. Clear the net by 4' helps too.

Bungalo Bill
12-06-2009, 08:52 PM
Hit up and across from left to right, leading with the edge of your racket and opening up at the very last second. Use your triceps to hit up on the ball. Turn the back of your hand inward toward your ear when you take the racket back and pronate your arm as you brush the ball from left to right, snapping your wrist outward (not downward). Try starting the serve motion with your racket already behind you or on your head until you get the hang of the left to right motion.

Wow, I thought MTM was suppose to keep things simple? lol

Snapping is not a good term. ALso, getting a student to figure out the little details (last second stuff) is also not good.

Geee, when I am finally trying to get the person to "feel" the ball, you come in with your scientific explanation. lol

Bungalo Bill
12-06-2009, 08:57 PM
Ok thx Bill, Ill think about hitting up and keeping my head up and see if that helps.

Hit up and outward away from the body. Ensure you position that toss right and practice what I mentioned above. Slow, deliberat, high, loopy serves.

You will get it. Then it is a matter of hitting it with pace, consistency, and confidence and that simply is about practice.

Slazenger07
12-07-2009, 12:42 AM
Yesterday I went out and practiced kick serves before my friend came to the court and I was concentrating on the things you guys talked about and the serves were going really good. I could tell I was getting good topspin on the ball and a bit of slice action as well, allowing me to sometimes hit a twist serve with good breaking action without really meaning to. Im really starting to get the hang of topspining the serve, its still going to take more time before Im confident with it. Originally I was thinking about learning the topspin-slice serve but I think I should just concentrate on trying to hit topspin on the serve rather than try and add both spins right now, cause its really heavy topspin that Id like to see on my serve. Ive found throwing the toss above my head seems pretty comfortable for me and it definetly looks like Im getting the right spin so Im gonna keep working on the topspin/twist serve.

Thanks for your help guys!

ms87
12-07-2009, 01:03 AM
I've posted before, but I'm still getting older....
Flat firsts, maybe just over 100, bounce about hip high to most players 6' tall.
Topspin first, hit fast, about mid chest.
Topspin seconds, hit only guided to backhand or forehand side, mid chest.
Twist wide on duece, me lefty, close to mid face height on good ones, higher on great ones, and chin high on short ones.
I choose not to hit a twist on ad court (me lefty) due to shorter court and lower net.
I don't hit kicks into the ad court. Just too much to practice for an aging 60 year oldster.

thats pretty low kick for a guy with your height and experience, mine go to about 7+ feet and I'm 5'9.

LeeD
12-07-2009, 07:15 AM
Hey, I never said I was any good, I'm just stating how high MY serves go.
Someone needed an example, and that's mine.
Now if I served at 6,000' elevation, and the temps were over 70, and the courts were not smooth concrete..... who knows? I might get it to bounce 6 inches higher.

Bungalo Bill
12-07-2009, 06:23 PM
Yesterday I went out and practiced kick serves before my friend came to the court and I was concentrating on the things you guys talked about and the serves were going really good. I could tell I was getting good topspin on the ball and a bit of slice action as well, allowing me to sometimes hit a twist serve with good breaking action without really meaning to. Im really starting to get the hang of topspining the serve, its still going to take more time before Im confident with it. Originally I was thinking about learning the topspin-slice serve but I think I should just concentrate on trying to hit topspin on the serve rather than try and add both spins right now, cause its really heavy topspin that Id like to see on my serve. Ive found throwing the toss above my head seems pretty comfortable for me and it definetly looks like Im getting the right spin so Im gonna keep working on the topspin/twist serve.

Thanks for your help guys!

Excellent. It wont happen every time when you are learning. It comes and goes. Then one day you just get it. For the twist you just need to ensure the ball is tossed properly, your racquet path goes in the right direction, and your body shape allows you to hit the way you are suppose too. The rest my friend is practice.

Perform slow deliberate serves at the back fence. Really loop those suckers and watch the bounce. Keep doing it until 90% of your serves are performing the way you want.

Slazenger07
12-09-2009, 08:40 AM
Well since weve last talked Ive decided to really try to focus on the topspin-slice serve as I think its easier to hit and it will benefit me more, being a lefty. Plus when I attempted the twist the action looked right but people have since told me it wasnt topspin on my ball. I can get the right spin with a top/slice tho so im just gonna stick with that.

I feel like at this point I need to own a kick serve of some type and the top/slice looks like the best option for me.

LeeD
12-09-2009, 08:43 AM
Topspin/slice is a mainstay for lefties vs righties on ad court.
But sometimes, you face a lefty on duece court, and he wants to his a forehand. That wide twist up high to his backhand can work pretty effectively.
Best to learn all the serves, then use the one you think is most effective for the particular situation.

xFullCourtTenniSx
12-09-2009, 11:56 AM
mine go to about 7+ feet and I'm 5'9.

So you're playing D1 tennis? Futures?

7+ feet is pretty ridiculous; you do know that right? That's on par with Roddick and Federer, who have the best second serves on the current tour!

What's the pace and penetration on that? Cause if you really generate a kicker that big you should be playing some REALLY high level tennis.

Even my best freak kickers probably don't touch 7 feet (still high 6 foot range).

If you were 6'4" or something I can understand, but 5'9" requires some serious spin to pull that off. I even played a crazy server around 6'6" and he still didn't get kickers that high! (But his serves were still in the mid 6 foot range.)

Slazenger07
12-10-2009, 08:07 AM
Topspin/slice is a mainstay for lefties vs righties on ad court.
But sometimes, you face a lefty on duece court, and he wants to his a forehand. That wide twist up high to his backhand can work pretty effectively.
Best to learn all the serves, then use the one you think is most effective for the particular situation.

Yea but that is a rare occasion, I figure for now I can use my flat serve and place it out wide on the duece side or slice into the body to deal with any lefties I might face, which hasn't been many in the past.

Ive grown accustomed to being "the lefty" in the group that gives everybody head aches. Love that role :twisted: