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View Full Version : Round Robin Format needs modification


bdawg
11-27-2009, 02:36 PM
After watching both Andy Murray and Novak Djokovic fall victim to seemingly trivial rules, I have become more disillusioned by the round robin format. Perhaps they should allow a one match playoff to determine second place? Better yet, they should invite the top ten.

malakas
11-27-2009, 02:38 PM
No.

It needs retirement.

akv89
11-27-2009, 02:41 PM
After watching both Andy Murray and Novak Djokovic fall victim to seemingly trivial rules, I have become more disillusioned by the round robin format. Perhaps they should allow a one match playoff to determine second place? Better yet, they should invite the top ten.

It's fine the way it is. Del Potro and Davydenko performed better than Murray and Djokovic. Hence they are the qualifiers.

rhubarb
11-27-2009, 02:42 PM
Fine as it is - no changes required to the system.

The ATP need to be able to calculate the results/scenarios rather better and quicker to avoid the kind of mess we saw yesterday, but changing the rules, no.

AM95
11-27-2009, 02:45 PM
@bdawg...who's your favorite player?

if you say murray then i know that your just ****y that he got knocked out

bdawg
11-27-2009, 04:22 PM
I am more of a shot-maker and all around tennis fan so I tend to favor Federer and players like Del Potro or Djokovic. I am definitely not a fan of watching Murray as he is incredibly boring.

I just hate to see important tournaments decided on trivial parameters such as percentage of games won. Tennis is about defeating your opponent, not winning the greatest number of games.

Why is a playoff out of the question?

defrule
11-27-2009, 05:05 PM
I would have 2 groups with points based on sets won.

After a match, players get points based on how many sets won. Straight set win, 2 points and 3 sets to 1, 3 points to winner and 1 point to loser.

After all round robin matches, highest two in each group go through.

matchmaker
11-27-2009, 05:07 PM
Tennis is a sport of direct elimination. Round robin must go.

tacou
11-27-2009, 05:49 PM
Tennis is about defeating your opponent, not winning the greatest number of games.

yes, and if Murray had beat Federer/Djokovic beat Soderling, they'd both be in.

tacou
11-27-2009, 05:50 PM
Tennis is a sport of direct elimination. Round robin must go.

so WTF should be a 3 round tournament? boring. we've got the 8 best in the world all playing each other. it's different and a perfect way to end the season.

bdawg
11-27-2009, 05:52 PM
I would much rather see a two week tournament featuring the top ten players in the world. I understand the logistical issues surrounding such an idea, but it would make the tournament more fair, and have the same hype as a grandslam.

I don't mind the round robin format, but there are too many instances of players going 2-1 and getting eliminated for sets lost, etc...

JeMar
11-27-2009, 05:55 PM
After watching both Andy Murray and Novak Djokovic fall victim to seemingly trivial rules, I have become more disillusioned by the round robin format. Perhaps they should allow a one match playoff to determine second place? Better yet, they should invite the top ten.



It works fine. Murray won less games than Del Potro, and Djokovic won less games than Davydenko.

If anything, this guarantees that the more deserving players move through. You're just upset that Murray and/or Djokovic didn't make it through their groups.

Remember that Murray could've advanced if he had taken the latter stages of his match against Federer a little more seriously. He basically gave up at the end there. That game could've been the difference between qualifying and getting some extra time off.

tacou
11-27-2009, 05:55 PM
I would much rather see a two week tournament featuring the top ten players in the world. I understand the logistical issues surrounding such an idea, but it would make the tournament more fair, and have the same hype as a grandslam.

I don't mind the round robin format, but there are too many instances of players going 2-1 and getting eliminated for sets lost, etc...

I don't understand how a 2week/10player tournament would work. RR isn't as drastic a change as some people think; the mentality should be the same--win all RR matches and you will advance to the semis, any matches you lose throw your chances into the ATP rule book.

Topaz
11-27-2009, 06:00 PM
After watching both Andy Murray and Novak Djokovic fall victim to seemingly trivial rules, I have become more disillusioned by the round robin format. Perhaps they should allow a one match playoff to determine second place? Better yet, they should invite the top ten.

Nothing trivial about it...they didn't win as much as the others...so they don't go through. Maybe Djoko should have thought about that before he moped through his match with Soderling. The players who won the most go through. Pretty simple.

kishnabe
11-27-2009, 06:42 PM
WTF it about consistency in the year. So the matches have to be consistency in dominance. If Djokovic and murray got beat by the system that means they weren't dominantly consistent. I agree with all the semifinalsts in the draw. No Nadal and Verdasco who weren't playing that well.

Defcon
11-27-2009, 07:01 PM
The current system punishes players who don't play to win. e.g. as a result the pushers are out.

It is perfect the way it is.

Mansewerz
11-27-2009, 07:35 PM
If I win 6-0 6-0, and my buddy wins his match 6-4 6-4, who played better?

_maxi
11-27-2009, 07:48 PM
I am more of a shot-maker and all around tennis fan so I tend to favor Federer and players like Del Potro or Djokovic. I am definitely not a fan of watching Murray as he is incredibly boring.

I just hate to see important tournaments decided on trivial parameters such as percentage of games won. Tennis is about defeating your opponent, not winning the greatest number of games.

Why is a playoff out of the question?
I agree with you 100%.

rommil
11-27-2009, 07:54 PM
The current system punishes players who don't play to win. e.g. as a result the pushers are out.

It is perfect the way it is.

I agree. Plus it has a bit of cruelty/drama in it lol. Two players could try and kill each other, one would win but possibly will not go on because of another player's performance at a different match. It's a bit twisted but fun.

GustafsonFanatic
11-27-2009, 09:25 PM
The current system punishes players who don't play to win. e.g. as a result the pushers are out.

It is perfect the way it is.

And how did Murray and Simon reach the semis last year?

egn
11-27-2009, 09:38 PM
I don't see whats wrong with it the rules have been the same for years.

rommil
11-27-2009, 09:49 PM
I don't see whats wrong with it the rules have been the same for years.

Only when it eliminates their favorite players.

flyinghippos101
11-27-2009, 09:49 PM
Tennis is about defeating your opponent, not winning the greatest number of games.



No, tennis is about defeating your opponent BY winning the greater number of games... :neutral:

MuseFan
11-27-2009, 09:56 PM
RR is different unique event and should be kept the way it is.

Cody
11-27-2009, 10:57 PM
so WTF should be a 3 round tournament? boring. we've got the 8 best in the world all playing each other. it's different and a perfect way to end the season.

I wouldn't call it perfect but it is nice for a change to end the season.

It could do with a few modifications like the changing of the pencentage based game wins that decide who goes though.

Defcon
11-27-2009, 10:59 PM
People who don't like the rules, pick one -

1. propose a better system
2. get rid of RR

Otherwise shut up.

urban
11-27-2009, 11:02 PM
In soccer, FIFA changed the rules after the 1978 WC fiasco, when Argentina knew exactly how many goals they needed to score, to surpass Brazil. The last matches have to be played at the same time. I think, its problematic, that in the round robin, the later match's players know the score. It gives them room to fabricate the score. Better let them play at the same time on different courts. I remember Lendl purposely chicken out the last match of the group, to avoid playing Borg in the semis.

Cody
11-27-2009, 11:08 PM
How about a Swiss System Tournament

The first round is either drawn at random or seeded according to rating. Players who win receive a point, losers receive no points. Win or lose all players proceed to the next round where winners are pitted against winners, losers are pitted against losers, and so on. In subsequent rounds, players face opponents with the same (or almost the same) score

I really don't know how this would work tho.

Forgive my mind it needs sleep.

GustafsonFanatic
11-27-2009, 11:15 PM
In soccer, FIFA changed the rules after the 1978 WC fiasco, when Argentina knew exactly how many goals they needed to score, to surpass Brazil. The last matches have to be played at the same time. I think, its problematic, that in the round robin, the later match's players know the score. It gives them room to fabricate the score. Better let them play at the same time on different courts. I remember Lendl purposely chicken out the last match of the group, to avoid playing Borg in the semis.

That's the main issue, match fixing is possible.

Maybe they should just follow FIFA and make them play both matches at the same time.

MuseFan
11-27-2009, 11:24 PM
No the current system is fine. It encourages players to go after 6-1, 6-0 sets to ensure semifinal qualification. In fact, I'd say it encourages BETTER performances rather then tanking.

Rogeforever
11-27-2009, 11:50 PM
Tennis is a sport of direct elimination. Round robin must go.
Round Robin is a year end event where only the best top eight players have earned the right to participate...It's tough and demanding to pull through this one --- You have to give every ounce that's left in you to earn this title... I like it very much and want it to stay as it is...

Rogeforever
11-27-2009, 11:59 PM
The Players must voice their likes or dislikes on the format of this Round Robin Event because they're the ones participating and from what it looks like so far, I have not read or heard of any complaints from them...

MuseFan
11-28-2009, 12:00 AM
The amazing thing with RR in YEC is there really isn't room to maneuver. You have to give it your total commitment because you are ONLY playing the top 8.

Cody
11-28-2009, 12:01 AM
The Players must voice their likes or dislikes on the format of this Round Robin Event because they're the ones participating and from what it looks like so far, I have not read or heard of any complaints from them...

I doubt murray is happy.

http://blog.taragana.com/sports/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/andy-murray1.jpg

There have been reports he pushed his television right out the window.

MuseFan
11-28-2009, 12:04 AM
I doubt murray is happy.

http://blog.taragana.com/sports/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/andy-murray1.jpg

There have been reports he pushed his television right out the window.

Good riddance to the pusher. He's one player I actually don't care to see in the game. There has never been anything about him that's been appealing.

Cody
11-28-2009, 12:10 AM
Good riddance to the pusher. He's one player I actually don't care to see in the game. There has never been anything about him that's been appealing.

Tell me about it.

Is it also true he was created from the combined DNA of a Peacock, ostrich and a touch of hewitt for the Come On's.

MuseFan
11-28-2009, 12:12 AM
Tell me about it.

Is it also true he was created from the combined DNA of a Peacock, ostrich and a touch of hewitt for the Come On's.

Like I said, hands down the most annoying player in the top 25.

callitout
11-28-2009, 12:18 AM
They are not going to increase the size of the field--allowing say top 32 in this tournament. It wouldnt be a serious accomplishment to qualify for year end championships. Imagine the lack of excitement surrounding the fight to be #32.
So the logical single elimation format would be First Round 1 v 8 2 v 7 3 v 6 4v 5
Second round wnners play
Finals
With a field of 8 you get a maximum of 3 matches in a single elimination format. They currently have a format with 5 matches. I doubt people want to watch 3rd place playoffs and the like to milk more matches out of the tournament.

MuseFan
11-28-2009, 12:25 AM
Just ignore the naysayers, YEC is fine.

batz
11-28-2009, 12:27 AM
And how did Murray and Simon reach the semis last year?

By being the only 2 people in their group to have a 2-1 record?

Rogeforever
11-28-2009, 12:33 AM
Only when it eliminates their favorite players.

It's ok to have favorit players---I like Federer but at the same time must give credit to all other players where credit is due. I like the style and consistency of Davydenko as well as Djocovic, Del Potro and sometimes I can even admire Roddick and Murray or Nadal but it seems that most players are up and down like water fountains so it's hard to know how great of a talent they really are. It's a tough one to know where a player thats great today ends up tomorrow and for what reasons. Sofar I can see, they all are playing their hearts out and they all want to win. This is enough for me to admire and respect because I love the sport of Tennis

MuseFan
11-28-2009, 12:36 AM
^^^^
That's what's called being a fan of tennis rather then just being a '****. Thank you.

Cody
11-28-2009, 12:38 AM
^^^^
That's what's called being a fan of tennis rather then just being a '****. Thank you.

A Tennistard you could say.

All my favorite moments in tennis come when two players are in the zone and pushing each other two the limits.

MuseFan
11-28-2009, 12:41 AM
A Tennistard you could say.

All my favorite moments in tennis come when two players are in the zone and pushing each other two the limits.

I used to be just a pure ******* but I learned in the last year how stifling that was. I realized that what drew me to Federer in the first place was the TENNIS. So I'm a fan of tennis as much as I am of Roger.

Rogeforever
11-28-2009, 12:43 AM
It's only my opinion but there is nothing wrong with the format or the rules of Round Robin. It is the fairest implication of a package as far as the eye can see and I don't understand why it should need modification...

rommil
11-28-2009, 05:42 AM
It's ok to have favorit players---I like Federer but at the same time must give credit to all other players where credit is due. I like the style and consistency of Davydenko as well as Djocovic, Del Potro and sometimes I can even admire Roddick and Murray or Nadal but it seems that most players are up and down like water fountains so it's hard to know how great of a talent they really are. It's a tough one to know where a player thats great today ends up tomorrow and for what reasons. Sofar I can see, they all are playing their hearts out and they all want to win. This is enough for me to admire and respect because I love the sport of Tennis

I agree. And we get to see how they match up with other players in the round robin format with the elite 8. So far we had multiple 3 setters and match up/ upsets that you probably would not expect on paper. Youre right, the more tennis the better.

vive le beau jeu !
11-28-2009, 05:47 AM
the year-end masters is all fine as it is.
this RR format featuring the top8 is also what makes it a unique and great way to conclude the season...

tacou
11-28-2009, 01:25 PM
yes! page 3 of this thread=most logical posts on TT in a long while.

people should be a fan of matches, not players (exclusively).

also, year end = round robin! changing that makes it no longer the year end tournament, just another tournament.

lawrence
11-28-2009, 01:27 PM
If I win 6-0 6-0, and my buddy wins his match 6-4 6-4, who played better?

It really depends on who the opponent was and how their game matches up against yours and his etc.