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TheTruth
11-28-2009, 12:01 PM
For sure we may even see some breakout stars, new grand slam winners, retirements. Any thoughts or predictions?

For example:

Davydenko had a great last part of the year, anyone see him actually getting a grand slam in the very near future?

Only serious analyses, folks!

FlamEnemY
11-28-2009, 12:07 PM
Hmm... I sincerly hope for Davydenko to at least reach a slam final. He's got too much talent in this (relatively) small frame of his...

I think Djokovic will make an impact. His problems at the end of the season weren't fitness related, despite him playing 90+ matches this year. This probably means that he has his physical problems solved, so I give him a good shot at AO/FO/USO. Not Wimby, of course.
Nadal, I really don't know what to think about his chances. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he steals all of those clay tournaments...
Murray, sorry, can't see him doing anything if he doesn't tweak his game. He can do some adjustments in the so called 'off-season', so I guess anything is possible.

jackson vile
11-28-2009, 12:10 PM
For sure we may even see some breakout stars, new grand slam winners, retirements. Any thoughts or predictions?

For example:

Davydenko had a great last part of the year, anyone see him actually getting a grand slam in the very near future?

Only serious analyses, folks!

You are right, it has been a while but now there is a strong field. I won't be easy for the likes of Roger and Nadal anymore.

welcome2petrkordaland
11-28-2009, 12:17 PM
there is more parity at this moment in the men's game than in the last 15 years IMO, especially on the hard courts, which incidently happens to be the most prolific surface on the tour.

Factor in all the variables-is Fed declining or has the overall level improved/people learning how to beat Fed, will Nadal regain his confidence vs. top 10 post-knee lay off/ ever reach '08 level again/get a new coach, will Murray ever play his best tennis at slams/learn to attack more, can Djokovic finally reach #2 and more, can anyone stop Del Potro, can Davydenko win slams now that he believes, Soderling, Cilic, Tsonga, etc.

Next year will be interesting.

Very hard to predict but IMO delpo takes Aussie Open, Nadal takes French, Wimby is a big ?, and US Open probably won by Delpo or Djokovic. top 5 ATP points race will be closer than it has been in a long time.

Tsonga#1fan
11-28-2009, 12:26 PM
I think Federer will remain a contender, but tournament wins, even at slams will be fewer now and much less often. He has been challenged by others more often in the last year and as of late looses to players he never had to in the past. He will still be the favorite on grass and especially at Wimbledon.
Nadal will get his mojo back but will never be as dominate as he was in 2008/early '09. That was his career year but he too will be a contender for quite a while to come, especially on clay. I have never felt he had much of a chance at the USO and certainly don't now.
I think del Potro is a star on the rise and he can win at any of the four slams now, and of all players I think he is the most likely to wim multiple slams next year.
Djokovic can still get better and more consistent but I still feel he has at least a few more slams in him and is most likely to achieve that in Australia, Flushing Meadow and other major hard court tournaments.
Murray has certainly shown potential and flashes of brilliance, but I feel you have seen him at his best already. I will be shocked if he ever wins a slam. He will come close a few more times though.
IMO, next year could easily have four different slam winners and just might have a surprise first timer in the likes of Soderling, Tsonga or even Andy Roddick finally getting that Wimbledon title with a declining Federer, who has been his big obstacle there.

My predictions for slam winners next year are:

AO: del Potro over Djokovic
RG: Nadal over del Potro
W: Federer over Djokovic
US: Djokovic over Tsonga

ClubHoUno
11-28-2009, 01:52 PM
I think Federer will remain a contender, but tournament wins, even at slams will be fewer now and much less often. He has been challenged by others more often in the last year and as of late looses to players he never had to in the past. He will still be the favorite on grass and especially at Wimbledon.
Nadal will get his mojo back but will never be as dominate as he was in 2008/early '09. That was his career year but he too will be a contender for quite a while to come, especially on clay. I have never felt he had much of a chance at the USO and certainly don't now.
I think del Potro is a star on the rise and he can win at any of the four slams now, and of all players I think he is the most likely to wim multiple slams next year.
Djokovic can still get better and more consistent but I still feel he has at least a few more slams in him and is most likely to achieve that in Australia, Flushing Meadow and other major hard court tournaments.
Murray has certainly shown potential and flashes of brilliance, but I feel you have seen him at his best already. I will be shocked if he ever wins a slam. He will come close a few more times though.
IMO, next year could easily have four different slam winners and just might have a surprise first timer in the likes of Soderling, Tsonga or even Andy Roddick finally getting that Wimbledon title with a declining Federer, who has been his big obstacle there.

My predictions for slam winners next year are:

AO: del Potro over Djokovic
RG: Nadal over del Potro
W: Federer over Djokovic
US: Djokovic over Tsonga

While I think Tsonga is good player, he is not a great player, and I doubt he will ever be considered great - OK, some thinks you're great if you play inside the Top 20 on the ATP tour, but great in my view is winning multiple slams and being no. 1 in the world.
Tsonga has a nice energetic game, good serve, hard forehand and pretty good hands at the net and I like to see him play - but he will never be great and will never win more than max 2 slams in my view.

My predictions:

AO: Djokster or Fed
RG: Nadal or Fed (if Nadals get beaten before meeting Fed)
W: Fed or Roddick
US: Djokster or Fed

Tsonga#1fan
11-28-2009, 02:21 PM
While I think Tsonga is good player, he is not a great player, and I doubt he will ever be considered great - OK, some thinks you're great if you play inside the Top 20 on the ATP tour, but great in my view is winning multiple slams and being no. 1 in the world.
Tsonga has a nice energetic game, good serve, hard forehand and pretty good hands at the net and I like to see him play - but he will never be great and will never win more than max 2 slams in my view.

My predictions:

AO: Djokster or Fed
RG: Nadal or Fed (if Nadals get beaten before meeting Fed)
W: Fed or Roddick
US: Djokster or Fed

I wasn't even considering "greatness" in regards to Tsonga and nowhere did you read in my post the word great in reference to Tsonga. There have and always will be winners of slam tournaments that never achieve "greatness". I will say that outside the current top few ranked players, it is certainly in the realm of possibillity for Tsonga or a few others to achieve that. I do think Tsonga will be good for a few slam wins, maybe not ever getting to the number one rank.

lawrence
11-28-2009, 02:25 PM
I think Federer will remain a contender, but tournament wins, even at slams will be fewer now and much less often. He has been challenged by others more often in the last year and as of late looses to players he never had to in the past. He will still be the favorite on grass and especially at Wimbledon.
Nadal will get his mojo back but will never be as dominate as he was in 2008/early '09. That was his career year but he too will be a contender for quite a while to come, especially on clay. I have never felt he had much of a chance at the USO and certainly don't now.
I think del Potro is a star on the rise and he can win at any of the four slams now, and of all players I think he is the most likely to wim multiple slams next year.
Djokovic can still get better and more consistent but I still feel he has at least a few more slams in him and is most likely to achieve that in Australia, Flushing Meadow and other major hard court tournaments.
Murray has certainly shown potential and flashes of brilliance, but I feel you have seen him at his best already. I will be shocked if he ever wins a slam. He will come close a few more times though.
IMO, next year could easily have four different slam winners and just might have a surprise first timer in the likes of Soderling, Tsonga or even Andy Roddick finally getting that Wimbledon title with a declining Federer, who has been his big obstacle there.

My predictions for slam winners next year are:

AO: del Potro over Djokovic
RG: Nadal over del Potro
W: Federer over Djokovic
US: Djokovic over Tsonga

Tsonga for USO finals? I had a good laugh.

TheTruth
11-28-2009, 07:23 PM
It's been a fabulous year, that's for sure. Full of surprises, breakout performances that none of us could have predicted.
Here's how they fared:

1. With the way Rafa started out it looked to be a stellar year for the handsome Mallorcan. Then, the loss at the French, injuries galore, and troubles on the home front slowed his roll to a complete stop.

2. Fed started the year low on confidence, ended up regaining his Wimbledon trophy and won the French for the first time. An extra bonus was year end #1.

3. Djokovic seemed to be in a funk much of the season, but did a fabulous job of turning it around during the fall swing. He got his name back out there and put himself in the hunt again.

4. Murray may have gotten caught up in the pressures of expectations. He came into the year, supposedly as one who would take over the crown. Pundits had him surpassing both Rafa and Novak, but it didn't happen.

5. Davydenko, always a bridesmaid, never a bride still managed to maintain his consistency and took quite a few scalps where previously he used to wilt.

Where they are now:

The storylines are changing.

1. While Fed is still playing great, he's also playing a little distracted. Who knows what's on his mind as he competes these days?

2. Rafa's got a lot of 'splaining to do, and a lot of work to get back to his previous form.

3. Djokovic has got to quit being so testy on court at the important moments and get about the business of settling down on court, focusing and seeing the match out to its conclusion.

4. Murray, he needs to stop reading the newspapers and listening to the experts. He needs to play others as aggressively as he plays Nadal.

5. Roddick had gained some nice momentum, but who knows how the long layoff and marriage will effect the fact that he was making significant inroads.

What's to come:

Those are the tried and trues. Enter the newcomers.

1. You gotta tip your hat to JMDP. He came on strong and showed his mettle by winning the Open in his maiden grand slam facing none other than Roger Federer. And, after taking a brief respite came back strong in the WTF.

2. Verdasco had a breakout year and gained a ton of experience in big matches. He didn't snag one of the slams, but hopefully he now believes he can.

3. Soderling, with his precise and hard hitting ball made a significant impression on the tour and a history making moment in dethroning Nadal at the French, while he followed up with a first time appearance at the WTF.

This coming year is going to be fascinating with titles changing hands at an alarming rate. This folks is what tennis is all about, and also what makes it such an exciting game.

I'm looking forward to it!

Agassifan
11-28-2009, 08:01 PM
true. But how much of the strength is because of fed and nadal's decline?

tudwell
11-28-2009, 08:05 PM
Strongest since 1996, I'd say.

Gugafan
11-28-2009, 08:22 PM
The top 2 players no longer have a lock on the slams, which is partly due to the depth in the mens game. You only have to look at the results at the World tour finals this week, where numerous competitive 3 set matches were played.

Davydenko is mocked for being a mental midget, yet he has beat the top 3 players this year in Masters events. Players like Soderling, Verdasco and Davydenko may not be GS contenders but they are capable of serious challenging the top 3 players on any given day. Compared to the lack of depth a few years ago, where you had the likes of Ljubicic, Blake, Robredo, Ferrer effectively making up the numbers in the top 10.

Then you have Del Potro who seems to be one of the most well balanced big hitters the game has seen for some time... Hopefully next year a new star will be born in the mens game, like Baghdatis at the Aus Open. Perhaps its time for Dimitrov to make his move??

nikdom
11-28-2009, 08:22 PM
Very good points throughout and a tip of my hat to TheTruth for a good thread and some very good observations.

Going based on what's happened thus far, I see the same characters coming to the fore next year at the guys at the WTF this year. The only exception is Verdasco. I think he rose to the highest point he can reach. Unfortunately for him the YEC was a watershed moment which showed him he doesn't have the game or the heart to hang with the big dogs. Sort of like Ferrer the year before last.

Davy in my book is still not going to win a slam (even though I wish he does or at least gets to the finals) because I think inherently he hates big stages. The YEC, while still being the most toughest tournament outside the slams, is still relatively obscure outside tennis circles. Kolya likes to stay under the radar and that will always hamper him.

Robin Soderling is definitely top 5 material. I think he will continue to give us good performances. He will need to work some more on his strategy and rounding out his game to consistently figure at the quarters and better at slams.

JMDP is here to stay baby. This guy is going to win multiple slams. I just don't see any downsides to him. Everything the british press hypes up Murray, you will see this guy do first. Including a Wimby title in future even though its not his best surface. He will also win the FO at some point in his career. Look out for this kid to be the next career slam contender. (After Nadal of course, but I doubt Nadal is going to win the USO)

Murray will spring back from these losses but as he's shown time and again, his game is not very conducive for when he needs an easy win against aggressive players. There's only so much running you can do. Ask Nadal.

Nadal is also going to come back, but something tells me he's lost some of his aura and that's going to work against him. I think there's more confidence in the locker room when someone plays him.

Djoko's star is going to shine brightly if he can keep himself more disciplined and not so bound to his emotions on court. He;s shown us again recently how good his game is. Again, a multiple slam winner on multiple surfaces I think at the end of his career.

Most promising new kid on the block? Marin Cilic. He's got the game, but some tangibles have to start clicking for this guy.

Serendipitous
11-28-2009, 08:38 PM
Australian Open: Nadal

Roland Garros: Nadal

Wimbledon: Djokovic

US Open: Murray


:shock::shock::shock::shock:

President of Serve/Volley
11-28-2009, 08:53 PM
I really wouldn't be surprised if Federer makes all 4 finals again, or even win them all.... Little bit of luck, he can do it.

Yes, his play level has declined since 2006, but he might pull an Andre Agassi.

BigServer1
11-28-2009, 09:00 PM
Agreed...This top 10 is really pretty awesome, with the top 2 being all time greats, young guys like DelPo, Djokovic and Murray, a solid guy like Roddick, Davy is playing great tennis right now and guys like Soderling are really, REALLY dangerous, especially when they're on.

I think going forward in 2010, well see Federer win at least one slam, and I think DelPo will win one as well. Nadal should be the favorite for the French, but how he comes out in Australia should tell us a lot about his future in this sport. Djokovic might keep this little run going, and I fear for Murray that it will be slam disappointment again. If Davydenko can strike the ball like he is now, he is good enough and fit enough to win a slam.

It should be a highly entertaining 2010, that's for sure.

kishnabe
11-28-2009, 09:55 PM
Tsonga for USO finals? I had a good laugh.

buddy did you see Tsonga play at the US open this year. He actually did good in his matches. So he has a bigger chance to win either Us open and Aus open thatn the others. French Open for sentimental reasons. ANything can happen in tennis/!

GasquetGOAT
11-29-2009, 10:16 AM
Good thread by thetruth.

TMF
11-29-2009, 10:31 AM
Strongest since 1996, I'd say.

Disagree. Today's players are bigger, stronger, faster. The 90's would get overpower.

grafselesfan
11-29-2009, 10:32 AM
I would say it is the strongest since 1995.

Azzurri
11-29-2009, 10:40 AM
I think Federer will remain a contender, but tournament wins, even at slams will be fewer now and much less often. He has been challenged by others more often in the last year and as of late looses to players he never had to in the past. He will still be the favorite on grass and especially at Wimbledon.
Nadal will get his mojo back but will never be as dominate as he was in 2008/early '09. That was his career year but he too will be a contender for quite a while to come, especially on clay. I have never felt he had much of a chance at the USO and certainly don't now.
I think del Potro is a star on the rise and he can win at any of the four slams now, and of all players I think he is the most likely to wim multiple slams next year.
Djokovic can still get better and more consistent but I still feel he has at least a few more slams in him and is most likely to achieve that in Australia, Flushing Meadow and other major hard court tournaments.
Murray has certainly shown potential and flashes of brilliance, but I feel you have seen him at his best already. I will be shocked if he ever wins a slam. He will come close a few more times though.
IMO, next year could easily have four different slam winners and just might have a surprise first timer in the likes of Soderling, Tsonga or even Andy Roddick finally getting that Wimbledon title with a declining Federer, who has been his big obstacle there.

My predictions for slam winners next year are:

AO: del Potro over Djokovic
RG: Nadal over del Potro
W: Federer over Djokovic
US: Djokovic over Tsonga

LOL...worst predictions I have read to date.

fed_rulz
11-29-2009, 10:41 AM
I hope I can bump this thread again when it's a Fed/Rafa show again in 2010. I believe Fed will play better in 2010 than in 2009. Rafa too. My prediction: Fed 3 slams, rafa 1

I hope the weak-era theory morons can see what is happening: fed & rafa are off their game a bit, and suddenly the entire field seems very strong (let's be honest here - Fed & Rafa were playing possibly their worst tennis of the year for the past few weeks; fed can't seem to find his serve, & rafa his anything).

dlk
11-29-2009, 10:46 AM
Azzurri, why so bad? The only one I question is Tsonga. Really see Fed or D.P..

raging
11-29-2009, 11:04 AM
I think the top 10 is strong and that will extend to the top 20 this year, some guys are coming out of the woodwork and let's hope for fireworks in Oz!
Maybe an unexpected Mens Champ Downunder? Certainly lots of upsets are programmed.

I still hope Federer and Nadal re-establish their rivalry, it has been great for the sport and it has pushed all the other guys to lift their standard. The 2 still define the sport and polarise fans (this forum is a good example!).

I see it as a positive that the other top 10 guys are working harder and this message will spread to the guys on the whole tour. Men's tennis is healthy and selling well.

The Masters was great for tennis in LONDON and the UK generally, even if it had limited public tv, the tickets sold well and it translated well internationally.

Davy winning shows to a lot of guys that fitness, speed and taking it early is the way to go. So they should be all working hard over Xmas and New Year:twisted:

Merry Xmas boys, come out firing in the New Year , 2010 ! :)

President of Serve/Volley
11-29-2009, 11:13 AM
Disagree. Today's players are bigger, stronger, faster. The 90's would get overpower.


You are missing one key thing: Faster surfaces in 1996, the serve and volleyers would have a blast playing the baseliners today...

Indoors would be quite ugly with Boris Becker and Pete Sampras. If you think Nadal got beat pretty badly during these WTF, I can only imagine what would have happened had he played vs Becker on indoors....

wangs78
11-29-2009, 11:24 AM
This just proves how weak the argument is that Fed dominated during a weak era. The fact that players like Davydenko are beating Fed now just shows how good Fed was during his prime. I'm confident that if you took a time traveling DeLorean to 2005-2006 and brought Fed from that time period to 2009, he'd school the current top 10, including the current Fed.

Chadwixx
11-29-2009, 11:27 AM
You are missing one key thing: Faster surfaces in 1996, the serve and volleyers would have a blast playing the baseliners today...


Was that sarcasm?

jones101
11-29-2009, 12:18 PM
I just realised that Fed has finished top 2 for the last 7 years -

03 - 2
04 - 1
05 - 1
06 - 1
07 - 1
08 - 2
09 - 1

I cant see Fed finishing lower than 2 and see him with at least 2 slams next year.

President of Serve/Volley
11-29-2009, 12:19 PM
This just proves how weak the argument is that Fed dominated during a weak era. The fact that players like Davydenko are beating Fed now just shows how good Fed was during his prime. I'm confident that if you took a time traveling DeLorean to 2005-2006 and brought Fed from that time period to 2009, he'd school the current top 10, including the current Fed.


No dobut about that of course, the 2006 Federer would rule over any Federer, I'd agree with that.

President of Serve/Volley
11-29-2009, 12:20 PM
Was that sarcasm?



If you speed up the surfaces, the S & V would have the upper hand....

Chadwixx
11-29-2009, 12:23 PM
"playing the baseliners today"

Did you mean baseliners "of" today?

Everyone hits 130+ it seems like, while in the 90's there were only a few and didnt have much game to back it up (like karlovic is today). Now we got baseliners starting the point with a 130+ :(

namelessone
11-29-2009, 12:28 PM
If you speed up the surfaces, the S & V would have the upper hand....

So why do you think they don't speed up the surfaces? Could it be because there aren't that many people complaining about the all baseline game of today? This thing runs in cycles. Once people voice their concern(loudly) about not having enough S&V,changes will be made to enable this type of game again. Until then,not a chance. And seeing how this new generation of baseliners is looking to be promising I don't think we will see this change pretty soon.

NamRanger
11-29-2009, 12:36 PM
So why do you think they don't speed up the surfaces? Could it be because there aren't that many people complaining about the all baseline game of today? This thing runs in cycles. Once people voice their concern(loudly) about not having enough S&V,changes will be made to enable this type of game again. Until then,not a chance. And seeing how this new generation of baseliners is looking to be promising I don't think we will see this change pretty soon.




They don't speed up the surfaces because one shot tennis to some people is not fun. However, I do see that the surfaces are becoming faster than in years past. For instance, the WTF seemed to be fairly fast in comparison to 2006-2007 which was awfully slow.

President of Serve/Volley
11-29-2009, 01:02 PM
"playing the baseliners today"

Did you mean baseliners "of" today?

Everyone hits 130+ it seems like, while in the 90's there were only a few and didnt have much game to back it up (like karlovic is today). Now we got baseliners starting the point with a 130+ :(



Yes, of today. Only Federer would stand a decent chance vs the prime vollyers of the 90s or 80s, since he is likely the best volleyer of the top 10. You think Nadal would have a good chance on a super quick surface of the 90s and 80s? Serve and Volley can comeback if the ATP puts it on "super quick" mode for every surface, except clay.

President of Serve/Volley
11-29-2009, 01:04 PM
They don't speed up the surfaces because one shot tennis to some people is not fun. However, I do see that the surfaces are becoming faster than in years past. For instance, the WTF seemed to be fairly fast in comparison to 2006-2007 which was awfully slow.

The WTF had its fastest surface since 2005, which was supposely the fastest it had in the past since 2000?

TMF
11-29-2009, 01:05 PM
Put those s/v players in the 90's and play this year RR, they get pass left and right. DP hit 106 mph forehand...good luck at being at the net!

President of Serve/Volley
11-29-2009, 01:06 PM
Put those s/v players in the 90's and play this year RR, they get pass left and right. DP hit 106 mph forehand...good luck at being at the net!

Yes, I'd agree on today's surface speed, but put DP vs Boris Becker in the surface speeds of 1992, Becker wins that easily!

matchmaker
11-29-2009, 01:08 PM
I think the more competitive top ten is just a result of the Fedal decline. If they were both playing at the level they used to play at, I still think they would be miles ahead of the others.

DavidGarcia
11-29-2009, 01:09 PM
I am surprised that none of you have mentioned Cilic for this upcoming year. I really see him breaking in the top 10. I have big hopes on him.

fed_rulz
11-29-2009, 03:17 PM
Yes, I'd agree on today's surface speed, but put DP vs Boris Becker in the surface speeds of 1992, Becker wins that easily!

easily? this over-hyping of the 90s players is getting ridiculous.. becker was andre's pigeon, and Delpo does everything better than Agassi.. becker would not have a prayer against Delpo's serve or his ground strokes. I'd think faster surfaces would favor delpo, moreso than the slower ones.

conclusion: i don't see how becker would win "easily" (or for that matter, win at all), against Delpo...

President
11-29-2009, 03:56 PM
Yes, I'd agree on today's surface speed, but put DP vs Boris Becker in the surface speeds of 1992, Becker wins that easily!

On grass and carpet, Becker would win easily, no doubt. On clay, Del Potro would win nearly as easily. However, I think that on hard court (both fast and slow) Del Potro would win pretty convincingly. Becker's "big" serve would not faze Del Potro. Soderling's serve was consistently getting to 135 yesterday, and Del Potro was returning it decently well. Becker's serve is only 120. He would get passed left and right.

Net47
11-29-2009, 05:17 PM
Disagree. Today's players are bigger, stronger, faster. The 90's would get overpower.

LOL. Yes, little Davydenko is certainly, bigger, stronger, faster.
The premise of this thread, that the victory by a nondescript player like Davydenko someone proves the awesomeness of today's top 10, is equally amusing. Obviously, it proves the opposite, showing the weakness of today's top 10, beyond Federer. (I once would have added Nadal as a rare example of strength as well, but he's way off form right now).

Buckethead
11-29-2009, 05:27 PM
For sure we may even see some breakout stars, new grand slam winners, retirements. Any thoughts or predictions?

For example:

Davydenko had a great last part of the year, anyone see him actually getting a grand slam in the very near future?

Only serious analyses, folks!
If he volleys better,serves better,and start moving forward more,i think he can win.
Nobody beats all those guys he's beaten only on this tournament for nothing.
It just shows he can,but sometimes the matches he plays is not decided on his racquet.
Example:when he plays Federer,Del Potro,Tsonga,normally these takes the initiative of the points and actions.
But his footwork i think is amazing,and nobody is able to take the ball early from both sides,change the direction of it,and so consistently as he does.
I'd go ahead and say not only the top 10,but the top 15 is the strongest ever,which is really good for Tennis.
Nowadays all of them can win.

President of Serve/Volley
11-29-2009, 05:35 PM
easily? this over-hyping of the 90s players is getting ridiculous.. becker was andre's pigeon, and Delpo does everything better than Agassi.. becker would not have a prayer against Delpo's serve or his ground strokes. I'd think faster surfaces would favor delpo, moreso than the slower ones.

conclusion: i don't see how becker would win "easily" (or for that matter, win at all), against Delpo...


Again, Becker faced Pete and had a decent record vs him and Pete's serve is a million times better than Delpo, and he did okay with it, and you say Becker wouldn't have a chance vs Delpo? That's is silly.

President
11-29-2009, 05:37 PM
You say better than Andre? How is Delpo better than Andre???

More power on his groundstrokes. Much better serve. Worse movement is offset by greater reach. Neither is very good at net, but JMDP's larger wingspan make him more effective. And JMDP is still very young. He is still rapidly improving.

President of Serve/Volley
11-29-2009, 05:41 PM
More power on his groundstrokes. Much better serve. Worse movement is offset by greater reach. Neither is very good at net, but JMDP's larger wingspan make him more effective. And JMDP is still very young. He is still rapidly improving.

I'd agree on power with you Mr. President. And of course he is improving, but it's crazy to say Delpo has the angles and ball striking ability that Andre had, but time will tell if I am mistaken.

President
11-29-2009, 05:48 PM
I'd agree on power with you Mr. President. And of course he is improving, but it's crazy to say Delpo has the angles and ball striking ability that Andre had, but time will tell if I am mistaken.

Yeah, I agree that he doesn't have the angles. But that is just one part of it. JMDP's power I believe allows him to (more than) compensate for this. As for "ball striking", Del Potro hits the ball pretty cleanly himself.

I mean, if you judged solely on those two categories that you mentioned, you would have to consider Davydenko to be better than Agassi as well. He definitely has better angles, and he hits the ball just as cleanly. In addition, his footwork is better!

Overall, I think JMDP is a better player than Agassi was (note: not GREATER, but better), and he will get even better.

MuseFan
11-29-2009, 05:54 PM
Maybe Rafa doesn't get back that April 08 to April 09 domination, but he'll be a contender.

MuseFan
11-29-2009, 05:55 PM
Yeah, I agree that he doesn't have the angles. But that is just one part of it. JMDP's power I believe allows him to (more than) compensate for this. As for "ball striking", Del Potro hits the ball pretty cleanly himself.

I mean, if you judged solely on those two categories that you mentioned, you would have to consider Davydenko to be better than Agassi as well. He definitely has better angles, and he hits the ball just as cleanly. In addition, his footwork is better!

Overall, I think JMDP is a better player than Agassi was (note: not GREATER, but better), and he will get even better.

I can't believe you say Davydenko is better then Agassi. Agassi won 8 slams, 17 Masters, 1 YEC, 60 overall titles, YE #1 in 1999 and Career Golden Slam. Denko doesn't even come close.

President
11-29-2009, 05:57 PM
I can't believe you say Davydenko is better then Agassi. Agassi won 8 slams, 17 Masters, 1 YEC, 60 overall titles, YE #1 in 1999 and Career Golden Slam. Denko doesn't even come close.

I didn't say he was GREATER than Agassi (which is what achievements show), nor do I think he is BETTER than Agassi. I was just showing President of Serve/Volley that you cannot judge a player solely on the two criteria that he used to say Agassi was better than JMDP.

fed_rulz
11-29-2009, 06:00 PM
Again, Becker faced Pete and had a decent record vs him and Pete's serve is a million times better than Delpo, and he did okay with it, and you say Becker wouldn't have a chance vs Delpo? That's is silly.

hyperbole again. No pete's serve was not a million times better Delpo. was it better? yes.. may be 10%, but that's about it. you make it sound as if delpo was dementieva at serve.

Pete does not have delpo's ground strokes. So yeah, becker would struggle with delpo. Delpo is a bigger, stronger, more athletic version of andre (moves better than andre).

YOU made the claim that becker would win "easily"; i was simply refuting it..

Buckethead
11-29-2009, 06:00 PM
More power on his groundstrokes. Much better serve. Worse movement is offset by greater reach. Neither is very good at net, but JMDP's larger wingspan make him more effective. And JMDP is still very young. He is still rapidly improving.

Del potro has a lot to improve still,he'll probably in 2012 be number one serving at 140,150 consistently if he improves his serve,and will hitting ground strokes around 110,120 consistently,will volley,will move better.Potro os already better and will be a lot better than Agassi.He has the weapons that many don't.
He overpowered Fed in this last match,it was obvious that his upside is bigger than everybody else at this time.Cilic is another one that can be really good.

fed_rulz
11-29-2009, 06:02 PM
I can't believe you say Davydenko is better then Agassi. Agassi won 8 slams, 17 Masters, 1 YEC, 60 overall titles, YE #1 in 1999 and Career Golden Slam. Denko doesn't even come close.

too bad, davydenko didn't play in the 90s; if he did, he would have been "greater" than agassi. certainly has the game, and dedication..

Buckethead
11-29-2009, 06:02 PM
I can't believe you say Davydenko is better then Agassi. Agassi won 8 slams, 17 Masters, 1 YEC, 60 overall titles, YE #1 in 1999 and Career Golden Slam. Denko doesn't even come close.
He also won that much because of the era,now people a lot better in everything.The top 15 now,15 years ago would have 10 GS playing what they play now against what people played before.

fed_rulz
11-29-2009, 06:03 PM
More power on his groundstrokes. Much better serve. Worse movement is offset by greater reach. Neither is very good at net, but JMDP's larger wingspan make him more effective. And JMDP is still very young. He is still rapidly improving.

Delpo certainly moves & defends better than agassi.

President
11-29-2009, 06:05 PM
Del potro has a lot to improve still,he'll probably in 2012 be number one serving at 140,150 consistently if he improves his serve,and will hitting ground strokes around 110,120 consistently,will volley,will move better.Potro os already better and will be a lot better than Agassi.He has the weapons that many don't.
He overpowered Fed in this last match,it was obvious that his upside is bigger than everybody else at this time.Cilic is another one that can be really good.

I don't see the immense potential in Cilic I see in JMDP. He just hits big all the time. He's like Soderling, but with a much worse serve and better movement (which is strange, because they should be reversed considering Cilic is 2 inches taller). He just hits the ball very hard on every shot. Such a player will always be dangerous, and may win multiple GS. But Del Potro has the patience and athletic ability from the baseline to even play defensively. Both JMDP and Cilic can greatly improve their serves though. Would really help them out.

President
11-29-2009, 06:06 PM
Delpo certainly moves & defends better than agassi.

He definitely moves better if you consider his height, but I think you can see that he has worse "absolute" movement when he goes up for dropshots. He really starts slowly, doesn't have much acceleration. But his long reach allows his side to side movement to exceed Agassi's for sure.

TMF
11-29-2009, 06:12 PM
LOL. Yes, little Davydenko is certainly, bigger, stronger, faster.
The premise of this thread, that the victory by a nondescript player like Davydenko someone proves the awesomeness of today's top 10, is equally amusing. Obviously, it proves the opposite, showing the weakness of today's top 10, beyond Federer. (I once would have added Nadal as a rare example of strength as well, but he's way off form right now).

Davy is only one of the top ten players, and his biggest win today doesn't tell the whole story. Davy has yet to be even close to #2 in his career. Midget Chang reached #2 in the 90's, reached GS final, and won RG in the 80's. Another small player Rios reached #1, something he would NEVER comes close against todays' players. The players today are much more explosive!

President of Serve/Volley
11-29-2009, 06:53 PM
hyperbole again. No pete's serve was not a million times better Delpo. was it better? yes.. may be 10%, but that's about it. you make it sound as if delpo was dementieva at serve.

Pete does not have delpo's ground strokes. So yeah, becker would struggle with delpo. Delpo is a bigger, stronger, more athletic version of andre (moves better than andre).

YOU made the claim that becker would win "easily"; i was simply refuting it..


You didn't know just how good Pete's 2nd serve was, do you? It was that serve alone, that helped him beat Andre so many more times.

Groundstrokes in terms of power, yeah, Delpo is stronger, but Pete is quicker and can do so much more. Boris Becker could take him on a fast court, I do not see why Becker couldn't handle Deplo.... Hell, Stefan Edberg with his kick serve would beat him...

President
11-29-2009, 06:57 PM
You didn't know just how good Pete's 2nd serve was, do you? It was that serve alone, that helped him beat Andre so many more times.

Groundstrokes in terms of power, yeah, Delpo is stronger, but Pete is quicker and can do so much more. Boris Becker could take him on a fast court, I do not see why Becker couldn't handle Deplo.... Hell, Stefan Edberg with his kick serve would beat him...

Del Potro's forehand is better than Sampras's, and his backhand is obviously better. On a really fast court like 90's grass and carpet, Becker would have the edge. On anything else, Del Potro would win.

Blinkism
11-29-2009, 07:26 PM
The Top 10 is stronger than it has been for the last few years, for sure.

Just take a look at Davydenko's 2009 season- he won a personal best 5 titles in a season, won a Masters title, made the Quarterfinals of the French Open, reached a personal-best win percentage of 78% on the season, and won the Year-End Championship.

And he still couldn't crack the Top 5 at the end of the year.

Whereas last year [edit: and also 2005] (both years were inferior to this one, in terms of his performances) he was Top 5 at the end of the year.

Of the last 4 seasons, judging by the year-end rankings of the Top 10;

In 2009, 5 players out of the Top 10 are slam winners, with 24 slam titles between them.
- in 2008, it was 4 players
- in 2007, it was 3 players
- in 2006, it was 3 players

In 2009, 8 out of the Top 10 have been in a slam final, with 39 slam finals between them.
- in 2008, it was 6 players
- in 2007, it was 6 players
- in 2006, it was 4 players

In 2009, 10 out of the Top 10 have been in a slam semifinal in their career.
- in 2008, it was 7 players
- in 2007, it was 9 players
- in 2006, it was 6 players

In 2009, 8 out of the Top 10 have won a Master's title, with 48 Masters titles between them.
- in 2008, it was 7 players
- in 2007, it was 6 players
- in 2006, it was 4 players

So, from the last 4 seasons, the year-end Top 10 in 2009 has had the most experienced players- the most slam winners, slam finalist, slam semifinalists, and Master's Champions of the last 4 seasons!

The Top 10 going into 2010 will be the strongest in a while.

travlerajm
11-29-2009, 07:36 PM
I hope I can bump this thread again when it's a Fed/Rafa show again in 2010. I believe Fed will play better in 2010 than in 2009. Rafa too. My prediction: Fed 3 slams, rafa 1

I hope the weak-era theory morons can see what is happening: fed & rafa are off their game a bit, and suddenly the entire field seems very strong (let's be honest here - Fed & Rafa were playing possibly their worst tennis of the year for the past few weeks; fed can't seem to find his serve, & rafa his anything).

I have to agree with this. Fed and Rafa are in rest mode right now. I believe they'll both make an effort to peak for the slams next year.

If anyone knows what it takes, it's these two.

TheTruth
11-29-2009, 10:02 PM
If he volleys better,serves better,and start moving forward more,i think he can win.
Nobody beats all those guys he's beaten only on this tournament for nothing.
It just shows he can,but sometimes the matches he plays is not decided on his racquet.
Example:when he plays Federer,Del Potro,Tsonga,normally these takes the initiative of the points and actions.
But his footwork i think is amazing,and nobody is able to take the ball early from both sides,change the direction of it,and so consistently as he does.
I'd go ahead and say not only the top 10,but the top 15 is the strongest ever,which is really good for Tennis.
Nowadays all of them can win.

It is an amazing time for tennis, but tell me what do you think about this?

I've always loved watching Davydenko play, he gets practically everything back, but I noticed during the Nadal and another match, now I can't remember which one, must've been the Federer one, but he seemed to be pretty tired towards the end. Davy's always been like the Energizer bunny. I was wondering if anyone else noticed this?

NamRanger
11-29-2009, 10:06 PM
It is an amazing time for tennis, but tell me what do you think about this?

I've always loved watching Davydenko play, he gets practically everything back, but I noticed during the Nadal and another match, now I can't remember which one, must've been the Federer one, but he seemed to be pretty tired towards the end. Davy's always been like the Energizer bunny. I was wondering if anyone else noticed this?




You're probably referring to that epic and mammoth 3 set match against Nadal at Rome where Davydenko nearly won that match had he not made a few silly errors towards the end.

TheTruth
11-29-2009, 10:08 PM
The Top 10 is stronger than it has been for the last few years, for sure.

Just take a look at Davydenko's 2009 season- he won a personal best 5 titles in a season, won a Masters title, made the Quarterfinals of the French Open, reached a personal-best win percentage of 78% on the season, and won the Year-End Championship.

And he still couldn't crack the Top 5 at the end of the year.

Whereas last year (both years were inferior to this one, in terms of his performances) he was Top 5 at the end of the year.

Of the last 4 seasons, judging by the year-end rankings of the Top 10;

In 2009, 5 players out of the Top 10 are slam winners, with 24 slam titles between them.
- in 2008, it was 4 players
- in 2007, it was 3 players
- in 2006, it was 3 players

In 2009, 8 out of the Top 10 have been in a slam final, with 39 slam finals between them.
- in 2008, it was 6 players
- in 2007, it was 6 players
- in 2006, it was 4 players

In 2009, 10 out of the Top 10 have been in a slam semifinal in their career.
- in 2008, it was 7 players
- in 2007, it was 9 players
- in 2006, it was 6 players

In 2009, 8 out of the Top 10 have won a Master's title, with 48 Masters titles between them.
- in 2008, it was 7 players
- in 2007, it was 6 players
- in 2006, it was 4 players

So, from the last 4 seasons, the year-end Top 10 in 2009 has had the most experienced players- the most slam winners, slam finalist, slam semifinalists, and Master's Champions of the last 4 seasons!

The Top 10 going into 2010 will be the strongest in a while.

Wow, good stuff, Blinkism. You should keep this and update it on a yearly basis. Very interesting information.

TheTruth
11-29-2009, 10:16 PM
Very good points throughout and a tip of my hat to TheTruth for a good thread and some very good observations.

Going based on what's happened thus far, I see the same characters coming to the fore next year at the guys at the WTF this year. The only exception is Verdasco. I think he rose to the highest point he can reach. Unfortunately for him the YEC was a watershed moment which showed him he doesn't have the game or the heart to hang with the big dogs. Sort of like Ferrer the year before last.

Davy in my book is still not going to win a slam (even though I wish he does or at least gets to the finals) because I think inherently he hates big stages. The YEC, while still being the most toughest tournament outside the slams, is still relatively obscure outside tennis circles. Kolya likes to stay under the radar and that will always hamper him.

Robin Soderling is definitely top 5 material. I think he will continue to give us good performances. He will need to work some more on his strategy and rounding out his game to consistently figure at the quarters and better at slams.

JMDP is here to stay baby. This guy is going to win multiple slams. I just don't see any downsides to him. Everything the british press hypes up Murray, you will see this guy do first. Including a Wimby title in future even though its not his best surface. He will also win the FO at some point in his career. Look out for this kid to be the next career slam contender. (After Nadal of course, but I doubt Nadal is going to win the USO)

Murray will spring back from these losses but as he's shown time and again, his game is not very conducive for when he needs an easy win against aggressive players. There's only so much running you can do. Ask Nadal.

Nadal is also going to come back, but something tells me he's lost some of his aura and that's going to work against him. I think there's more confidence in the locker room when someone plays him.

Djoko's star is going to shine brightly if he can keep himself more disciplined and not so bound to his emotions on court. He;s shown us again recently how good his game is. Again, a multiple slam winner on multiple surfaces I think at the end of his career.

Most promising new kid on the block? Marin Cilic. He's got the game, but some tangibles have to start clicking for this guy.

The best thing about this thread is the many different viewpoints and perspectives you guys are bringing. I'm nodding my head in agreement at so many of the posts.

I agree with you about Cilic and started to mention him, but then it brought up Tsonga and I didn't want to start going overboard. But, it's as one poster said, it's really the Top 15 nowadays.

Really enjoying everyone's analyses:)

aldeayeah
11-30-2009, 05:13 AM
JMDP an improved Agassi?

Their body builds alone make them totally different players.

Agassi can't blast groundstrokes like Delpo; but he didn't take so much time recovering after striking the ball, nor was he so easily wrongfooted, nor was he so limited in returning low shots (which Delpo always slices back).

By the way, I agree with the OP.

Buckethead
11-30-2009, 06:56 AM
It is an amazing time for tennis, but tell me what do you think about this?

I've always loved watching Davydenko play, he gets practically everything back, but I noticed during the Nadal and another match, now I can't remember which one, must've been the Federer one, but he seemed to be pretty tired towards the end. Davy's always been like the Energizer bunny. I was wondering if anyone else noticed this?
It was against Djokovic,in the begin of a second set,i guess.He needs to be a little more resistent as well.
Djokovic paid the price for that win against Davydenko.
The other matches he was never the same.

prosealster
11-30-2009, 01:35 PM
This just proves how weak the argument is that Fed dominated during a weak era. The fact that players like Davydenko are beating Fed now just shows how good Fed was during his prime. I'm confident that if you took a time traveling DeLorean to 2005-2006 and brought Fed from that time period to 2009, he'd school the current top 10, including the current Fed.

agree....and i although davydenko is playing well...i dont think his level was higher than during his best in 05/06 either and yet he is beating everyone up at YEC in so called 'strong era'

President
11-30-2009, 01:37 PM
agree....and i although davydenko is playing well...i dont think his level was higher than during his best in 05/06 either and yet he is beating everyone up at YEC in so called 'strong era'

His serve and volleys have both improved a lot, as well as his overall consistency and (most important) mental strength.

akv89
11-30-2009, 02:08 PM
The Top 10 is stronger than it has been for the last few years, for sure.

Just take a look at Davydenko's 2009 season- he won a personal best 5 titles in a season, won a Masters title, made the Quarterfinals of the French Open, reached a personal-best win percentage of 78% on the season, and won the Year-End Championship.

And he still couldn't crack the Top 5 at the end of the year.

Whereas last year [edit: and also 2005] (both years were inferior to this one, in terms of his performances) he was Top 5 at the end of the year.

Of the last 4 seasons, judging by the year-end rankings of the Top 10;

In 2009, 5 players out of the Top 10 are slam winners, with 24 slam titles between them.
- in 2008, it was 4 players
- in 2007, it was 3 players
- in 2006, it was 3 players

In 2009, 8 out of the Top 10 have been in a slam final, with 39 slam finals between them.
- in 2008, it was 6 players
- in 2007, it was 6 players
- in 2006, it was 4 players

In 2009, 10 out of the Top 10 have been in a slam semifinal in their career.
- in 2008, it was 7 players
- in 2007, it was 9 players
- in 2006, it was 6 players

In 2009, 8 out of the Top 10 have won a Master's title, with 48 Masters titles between them.
- in 2008, it was 7 players
- in 2007, it was 6 players
- in 2006, it was 4 players

So, from the last 4 seasons, the year-end Top 10 in 2009 has had the most experienced players- the most slam winners, slam finalist, slam semifinalists, and Master's Champions of the last 4 seasons!

The Top 10 going into 2010 will be the strongest in a while.

These are interesting numbers but it doesn't say much about the quality of the play of the top 10, which I think should be relevant when discussing the strength of a field. For example, many people consider the 2001 season to have consisted of a weak field (ironically because nobody dominated it enough).

In the top 10 that year, there were 7 players in the top 10 who have won majors in their careers: Hewitt, Kuerten, Agassi, Kafelnikov, Ferrero, Rafter, and Sampras. And Safin, Ivanisevic, Federer, and Roddick were ranked 11-14.

I think your numbers are more of an indication that we are now in a transitionary phase in tennis.