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samprasvsfederer123
11-29-2009, 02:10 PM
what is it how does it work what is it about im just curious because i see many actors are in it and many contorversies about many deaths of people from scientology

David_Is_Right
11-29-2009, 02:20 PM
It's a special service designed for celebrities that have run out of ways to waste their money...

spacediver
11-29-2009, 02:26 PM
i suggest you start with this excellent 1987 bbc panorama documentary - gives some historical context to this money grabbing cult.

http://www.xenutv.com/blog/?p=545

CanadianChic
11-29-2009, 02:39 PM
It is a cult, not a religion.

heycal
11-29-2009, 02:59 PM
what is it how does it work what is it about im just curious because i see many actors are in it and many contorversies about many deaths of people from scientology

Deaths from Scientology? Can you elaborate?

Fedace
11-29-2009, 03:02 PM
Tom Cruise's campaign service for his next presidency.

jimbo333
11-29-2009, 03:04 PM
Well, give me all your money, and I'll tell you all about it!

(That's basically how Scientology works)

samprasvsfederer123
11-29-2009, 03:47 PM
Deaths from Scientology? Can you elaborate?

well i cant count them but years ago there was a spanish star who died and hundreds of headlines pointing to scientology surfaced.

Bud
11-29-2009, 04:05 PM
what is it how does it work what is it about im just curious because i see many actors are in it and many contorversies about many deaths of people from scientology

Wikipedia also has a pretty good synopsis about Scientology...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

malakas
11-29-2009, 04:22 PM
Watch THIS and you will learn all that's important to know.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103804/

35ft6
11-29-2009, 11:46 PM
Scientology is a unique opportunity to see what might eventually become a major world religion in its formative years. And their creation myths are pretty crazy but really no crazier than the stories in the Bible or Koran or any other religious book. With that said, they're way more unlikeable than other religious people I know.

Kobble
11-30-2009, 12:03 AM
It seems like another way to take advantage of the mentally weak. They also promote grandiose views of the person's self. I guess if you can promote the pursuit of this grandiosity long enough to reep profits, it is a good marketing strategy.

jrod
11-30-2009, 04:08 AM
It is a cult, not a religion.


Nonsense. There is zero difference.

origmarm
11-30-2009, 04:19 AM
Nonsense. There is zero difference.

+1. Completely agree with 35 below also, Scientology is effectively a religion in it's infancy.

flyinghippos101
11-30-2009, 05:52 AM
+1. Completely agree with 35 below also, Scientology is effectively a religion in it's infancy.

except with a nominal entry fee...:(

heycal
11-30-2009, 05:58 AM
Nonsense. There is zero difference.

+1. Completely agree with 35 below also, Scientology is effectively a religion in it's infancy.

except with a nominal entry fee...:(

Exactly. This is a big difference. You can not be a Scientologist for free. This is perhaps the chief trait, though not the only one, that distinguishes it from a religion, even one in its infancy.

raiden031
11-30-2009, 06:00 AM
Scientology = the study of science

malakas
11-30-2009, 06:05 AM
Exactly. This is a big difference. You can not be a Scientologist for free. This is perhaps the chief trait, though not the only one, that distinguishes it from a religion, even one in its infancy.

Most Religions don't cost money.
However ALL churches do.

FedererForehand
11-30-2009, 06:06 AM
Scientology= Scam

jrod
11-30-2009, 06:10 AM
Exactly. This is a big difference. You can not be a Scientologist for free. This is perhaps the chief trait, though not the only one, that distinguishes it from a religion, even one in its infancy.


There is a fee for all religions. It's not necessarily monetary, but the cost is not zero.

jonnythan
11-30-2009, 06:22 AM
I think the "religion" aspect of it is mostly a sham. The whole Xenu/spaceplane/etc is a cover.

I think that Scientology is really a way for the powerful people of the world to share money and favors tax-free and in complete secrecy. The whole religion aspect is a distraction and a cover.

It makes sense if you think about it. It takes millions of dollars in classes and upgrades to get at the heart of it - all the poor idiots who can't afford that never get into the inner sanctum and never learn all there is to learn, which is all well and good because then Scientology gets all their money but these commonfolk never get a say in the organization. Once you've bought your way into the elite, you have the perfect cover for all sorts of activities and favors. You can exchange all the money you want, and since it's a "religion," all the money is untaxed and essentially untracked.

When you think about it this way, it really isn't all that crazy, is it?

Dedans Penthouse
11-30-2009, 06:39 AM
Wasn't Scientology an 80's Police album?

max
11-30-2009, 06:41 AM
Wasn't Scientology an 80's Police album?

Damn that's good!

TenniseaWilliams
11-30-2009, 06:51 AM
On this MTM description at http://www.tennislessons.com/coaching.mtm, Oscar Wegner seems to claim that scientology will directly improve your tennis game.


American tennis will suffer until Modern Tennis is fully adopted as the coaching norm.

Beyond that, Oscar, a student of Dianetics and Scientology for 30 years, recommends to you with all his heart to learn the differences between the psychiatry/psychology model of a human (man is an animal, just body plus mind), and that of the real world. Man is a spirit, the spirit plays, feels and enjoys, and the mind is just a tool. Learn how to handle this combination and you'll play your best. Oscar recommends reading "The Fundamentals of Thought", by L. Ron Hubbard, his favorite author and discoverer of the basics of life. And "Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health", also by L. Ron Hubbard, which could be called the owner's manual for the mind.

"Not only you'll play better tennis through this knowledge", says Oscar, "but it will lead you to a better understanding of yourself and your role in life."

Camilio Pascual
11-30-2009, 07:12 AM
Get your credit cards' limits raised.
Helpful tip: Do your advances in Scientology when interest rates are low. Slack off when they are high.

malakas
11-30-2009, 08:40 AM
On this MTM description at http://www.tennislessons.com/coaching.mtm, Oscar Wegner seems to claim that scientology will directly improve your tennis game.

jeeeeezzzzzzz :shock: :mrgreen:

lol :lol:

jazzyfunkybluesy
11-30-2009, 08:46 AM
Churches = Scam

Organized religion = Useless

borg number one
11-30-2009, 09:01 AM
From what I've read about Scientology, it strikes me as in effect "big business".

It seeks out the vulnerable and misguided (i.e. those that are somewhat "lost"). I recall them "recruiting" near my college campus in Austin, Texas. It's a joke, based on just the following from a Wikipedia summary:

"Scientology has been surrounded by controversies since its inception. It has often been described as a cult that financially defrauds and abuses its members, charging exorbitant fees for its spiritual services.[6][15][16] The Church of Scientology has consistently used litigation against such critics, and its aggressiveness in pursuing its foes has been condemned as harassment.[17][18] Further controversy has focused on Scientology's belief that souls ("thetans") reincarnate and have lived on other planets before living on Earth.[19] Former members say that some of Hubbard's writings on this remote extraterrestrial past, included in confidential Upper Levels, are not revealed to practitioners until they have paid thousands of dollars to the Church of Scientology.[20][21] Another controversial belief held by Scientologists is that the practice of psychiatry is destructive and abusive and must be abolished.[22][23]"


Their website is BIZARRE, in that it obviously seeks to recruit many Christians especially that are still in effect "searching". It is basically a cult that operates under the guise of organized religion.

Personally, I have a deep distrust for anyone that calls themselves deeply religious and/or spiritual but at the same time seeks to "recruit"/"proselytize"/engage in "missionary pursuits" to convert the those that have not "seen the light".

The Church of Scientology seems to be "capitalizing" on many of our current social ills.

heycal
11-30-2009, 11:43 AM
Most Religions don't cost money.
However ALL churches do.

There is a fee for all religions. It's not necessarily monetary, but the cost is not zero.

What are you kids smoking?

You can join a reputable church with no money. You can not be a Scientologist with no money. That is a huge and troubling distinction you both seem to be ignoring.

And this "fee for all religions but not necessarily monetary" statement is pretty much jibberish. What next, saying that the "cost is not zero" for posting in this thread?

For the record, I am an agnostic and do not attend any church or have any use for religion. But I can still tell a harmless and good intentioned church from a manipulative money-grubbing for-profit cult.

35ft6
11-30-2009, 12:55 PM
Nonsense. There is zero difference.Classic characteristic of cult is members are encouraged to distance themselves from non-believers and especially critics of the cult. Also, it's hard to leave Scientology unscathed, and you have to sign a contract before attending any services. This contract prevents you from ever taking Scientology to court over money (and almost everything in Scientology costs money) or psychological harm, speaking of which it also includes something about you never wanting psychiatric help. All of these things are official church doctrine, not the demands of some rogue operative who set up his own shop on some farm in Ohio. This really does set it apart from most forms of Christianity found in America. I was raised Catholic, and you didn't have to give money during mass, and they didn't force you to ostracize your non-Catholic friends, and leaving was as easy as deciding not to go anymore. Read up on it, Scientology is very different from the other high profile "religions" found in the states.

heycal
11-30-2009, 01:00 PM
Classic characteristic of cult is members are encouraged to distance themselves from non-believers and especially critics of the cult. Also, it's hard to leave Scientology unscathed, and you have to sign a contract before attending any services. This contract prevents you from ever taking Scientology to court over money (and almost everything in Scientology costs money) or psychological harm, speaking of which it also includes something about you never wanting psychiatric help. All of these things are official church doctrine, not the demands of some rogue operative who set up his own shop on some farm in Ohio. This really does set it apart from most forms of Christianity found in America. I was raised Catholic, and you didn't have to give money during mass, and they didn't force you to ostracize your non-Catholic friends, and leaving was as easy as deciding not to go anymore. Read up on it, Scientology is very different from the other high profile "religions" found in the states.

Well, this is interesting. Because there's another poster named 35ft6 who had a much more benign take on this budding major religion earlier in the thread.

Scientology is a unique opportunity to see what might eventually become a major world religion in its formative years. And their creation myths are pretty crazy but really no crazier than the stories in the Bible or Koran or any other religious book. With that said, they're way more unlikeable than other religious people I know.

Mick
11-30-2009, 01:03 PM
Wasn't Scientology an 80's Police album?

i believe it was "Synchronicity" :)

35ft6
11-30-2009, 02:26 PM
Well, this is interesting. Because there's another poster named 35ft6 who had a much more benign take on this budding major religion earlier in the thread.The responses don't contradict each other. Read them again. They really might become a major world religion... their creation myths really are no crazier than other widely accepted ones... and their followers are harder to like than those who follow other religions in the USA... and they are way more cult like than other mainstream American religions.

You've been on ignore for a long time, looked at your response on a lark. Reminded me quickly why you're on ignore. Haha.

samprasvsfederer123
11-30-2009, 03:42 PM
The responses don't contradict each other. Read them again. They really might become a major world religion... their creation myths really are no crazier than other widely accepted ones... and their followers are harder to like than those who follow other religions in the USA... and they are way more cult like than other mainstream American religions.

You've been on ignore for a long time, looked at your response on a lark. Reminded me quickly why you're on ignore. Haha.

u mean like an elite "illuminati " " new world order" kind of organization that wants to destory other religions?

heycal
11-30-2009, 05:23 PM
The responses don't contradict each other. Read them again. They really might become a major world religion... their creation myths really are no crazier than other widely accepted ones... and their followers are harder to like than those who follow other religions in the USA... and they are way more cult like than other mainstream American religions.

You've been on ignore for a long time, looked at your response on a lark. Reminded me quickly why you're on ignore. Haha.

I don't have to read them again. Anyone can see that the second post was dramatically more critical than the first, almost as if written by a different person. Perhaps you are still wrestling with this issue and don't know what you feel?

In any event, put me back on ignore if you can't handle someone noticing your shifting attitudes and wishy-wash stances within the same thread. No skin off my back.

Claudius
11-30-2009, 06:23 PM
Quite simply, it's a fraudulent organization trying to take advantage of the gullible. Period.

malakas
12-01-2009, 12:56 AM
What are you kids smoking?

You can join a reputable church with no money. You can not be a Scientologist with no money. That is a huge and troubling distinction you both seem to be ignoring.

And this "fee for all religions but not necessarily monetary" statement is pretty much jibberish. What next, saying that the "cost is not zero" for posting in this thread?

For the record, I am an agnostic and do not attend any church or have any use for religion. But I can still tell a harmless and good intentioned church from a manipulative money-grubbing for-profit cult.

The minute I read the first bolded sentence I knew the second.
Every church will ask-demand for your money/time/effort sooner or later.

heycal
12-01-2009, 01:05 AM
The minute I read the first bolded sentence I knew the second.
Every church will ask-demand for your money/time/effort sooner or later.

You're suggesting since I don't attend church I know nothing of how they operate?

I think you are the ignorant one here. While a reputable church may ask that you make a small financial offering, or perhaps help in some other way, they will not DEMAND you do so, or bar you from attending their services if you refuse. You can go to a Catholic Church every Sunday for 50 years and never once put a nickel in the collection basket and you will still be welcome there.

Can you say the same for Scientology?

malakas
12-01-2009, 01:10 AM
You're suggesting since I don't attend church I know nothing of how they operate?

I think you are the ignorant one here. While a reputable church may ask that you make a small financial offering, or perhaps help in some other way, they will not DEMAND you do so, or bar you from attending their services if you refuse. You can go to a Catholic Church every Sunday for 50 years and never once put a nickel in the collection basket and you will still be welcome there.

Can you say the same for Scientology?

yes that's what I suggest.:) Because with your posts that's obvious to me.

What I say here is this: Scientology church is like all churches.They ask for your money.The people who are... religious enough to pay so much to join and go far in the ranks of scientology would pay the same in all the other churches as has been done for thousands of years in the history of all churches.

jmverdugo
12-01-2009, 03:51 AM
Just google Tom Cruise in Oprah, that would give you some perspective.

35ft6
12-01-2009, 06:53 AM
What I say here is this: Scientology church is like all churches.Not true. With Catholic Church, it's voluntary. With Scientology, mandatory, and very very expensive. Catholic church might ask, and I say "might" having been raised Catholic. You can't be a member of Scientology without paying for its courses and audits. At Starbuck's, the tip jar would be the Catholic Church, and buying a coffee or Danish is like Scientology. Big difference.

malakas
12-01-2009, 07:30 AM
Not true. With Catholic Church, it's voluntary. With Scientology, mandatory, and very very expensive. Catholic church might ask, and I say "might" having been raised Catholic. You can't be a member of Scientology without paying for its courses and audits. At Starbuck's, the tip jar would be the Catholic Church, and buying a coffee or Danish is like Scientology. Big difference.

Is there?Because if what I remember is correct it comes from the Catholic Church the absolution certificates no?That rich people payed for all their sins to be forgiven..
Have we gone a long way since then,or simply they have learn to conceal it better?People still pay money so they can help the church and so they can go to heaven.
The Scientology doesn't seem different to me,only they are more frank about it ..and they ask more money.
BUT my point is that people who join this,and pay this money..their "target group" would end up paying it anyway in some other church as it has been happening for all these centuries.

I am not here to argue about the Catholic Church,if you're a member good for you.That's my personal opinion that churches are up there with politicians and journalists as parasites of the volk.That's why Scientology seem normal to me.

heycal
12-01-2009, 08:26 AM
Is there?Because if what I remember is correct it comes from the Catholic Church the absolution certificates no?That rich people payed for all their sins to be forgiven..
Have we gone a long way since then,or simply they have learn to conceal it better?People still pay money so they can help the church and so they can go to heaven.
The Scientology doesn't seem different to me,only they are more frank about it ..and they ask more money.
BUT my point is that people who join this,and pay this money..their "target group" would end up paying it anyway in some other church as it has been happening for all these centuries.

I am not here to argue about the Catholic Church,if you're a member good for you.That's my personal opinion that churches are up there with politicians and journalists as parasites of the volk.That's why Scientology seem normal to me.

Your "opinion" is based on ignorance and, it seems, a touch of bigotry. To compare the voluntary and small contributions the Catholic Church might ask of its members to the large fees demanded by Scientology is absurd.

Tell you what: Why not do some field research on this and get back to us. Go attend a Catholic Church for a year and tell us how much you are required to pay. Then join Scientology for a year and see what it costs you...

malakas
12-01-2009, 08:36 AM
Your "opinion" is based on ignorance and, it seems, a touch of bigotry. To compare the voluntary and small contributions the Catholic Church might ask of its members to the large fees demanded by Scientology is absurd.

Tell you what: Why not do some field research on this and get back to us. Go attend a Catholic Church for a year and tell us how much you are required to pay. Then join Scientology for a year and see what it costs you...

Ok,if you say so,that's what is based on.:rolleyes:There's no catholic church to attend to in the next 1000 kilometres from here but more than enough from eastern orthodox churches.I have attended however catholic churches in Italy and have talked to italians and the situation seem to be the same.

When it cost me ANY money to practice my religion whether it's one euro or one thousand to me it's the same hypocricy and therefore I put all churches in the same basket.So Catholic church goes together with Scientology for me.

heycal
12-01-2009, 09:14 AM
Ok,if you say so,that's what is based on.:rolleyes:There's no catholic church to attend to in the next 1000 kilometres from here but more than enough from eastern orthodox churches.I have attended however catholic churches in Italy and have talked to italians and the situation seem to be the same.

When it cost me ANY money to practice my religion whether it's one euro or one thousand to me it's the same hypocricy and therefore I put all churches in the same basket.So Catholic church goes together with Scientology for me.

I don't what the hell is going on in Greece or Italy or who you might be talking to, but I guarantee you can attend any Catholiic Church in America every Sunday for 20 years straight and never spend even one penny for it.

The Catholic Church is free. Get it? Free. Scientology is most definitely NOT free. Get it? NOT free.

See the difference?

malakas
12-01-2009, 09:29 AM
I don't what the hell is going on in Greece or Italy or who you might be talking to, but I guarantee you can attend any Catholiic Church in America every Sunday for 20 years straight and never spend even one penny for it.

The Catholic Church is free. Get it? Free. Scientology is most definitely NOT free. Get it? NOT free.

See the difference?

heycal we will just never agree because you don't understand my point.
I am not 100% but still fairly positive that whatever goes in Italian catholic church goes to american as well.And that is asking for money sooner or later.
But I'm not even Catholic so who knows?Maybe american catholicism is an island of utopia.

shazbot
12-01-2009, 09:40 AM
LOL at anyone who waste their money on Scientology.

They're the same kind of people that click on pop up adds on websites that say "Click here you just won one million dollars!". So gullible they are.

heycal
12-01-2009, 09:52 AM
heycal we will just never agree because you don't understand my point.
I am not 100% but still fairly positive that whatever goes in Italian catholic church goes to american as well.And that is asking for money sooner or later.
But I'm not even Catholic so who knows?Maybe american catholicism is an island of utopia.

I don't care if you are not 100% positive about what goes on in U.S. Catholic Churches. I am. This is not a matter of opinion where reasonable people can disagree, but a matter of demonstrable fact, and you are a 100% wrong.

I further suspect you are wrong about the practices of the Catholic Church in Italy and other countries as well, though I have no proof of this at the moment. And remember, asking for money is not the same as demanding money. Are you suggesting that if I lived in Italy and attended a Catholic Church there, that they would eventually bar me from entering its doors and worshipping there if I refused to give them any money?

It's also worth keeping in mind that the Catholic Church has million upon millions of poverty-stricken, dirt-poor followers the world over. They couldn't give a penny even if they wanted to, and many get more from the church's charity work than they could ever possibly give.

Contrast that with Scientology, an expensive cult aimed at the more affluent classes and unavailable to the poor.

malakas
12-01-2009, 10:00 AM
I don't care if you are not 100% positive about what goes on in U.S. Catholic Churches. I am. This is not a matter of opinion where reasonable people can disagree, but a matter of demonstrable fact, and you are a 100% wrong.

I further suspect you are wrong about the practices of the Catholic Church in Italy and other countries as well, though I have no proof of this at the moment. And remember, asking for money is not the same as demanding money. Are you suggesting that if I lived in Italy and attended a Catholic Church there, that they would eventually bar me from entering its doors and worshipping there if I refused to give them any money?

Nahh I didn't say they would demand it from you.But you would be much pressured to pay them.They are not so direct as Scientology in that matter.-for the record I don't have anything personal against Catholics!!-

Anyway,whatever I'm out of here for good.I don't like these religion threads because they soon get ugly and really should have known better than to enter one.bye.

shazbot
12-01-2009, 10:00 AM
I don't care if you are not 100% positive about what goes on in U.S. Catholic Churches. I am. This is not a matter of opinion where reasonable people can disagree, but a matter of demonstrable fact, and you are a 100% wrong.

I further suspect you are wrong about the practices of the Catholic Church in Italy and other countries as well, though I have no proof of this at the moment. And remember, asking for money is not the same as demanding money. Are you suggesting that if I lived in Italy and attended a Catholic Church there, that they would eventually bar me from entering its doors and worshipping there if I refused to give them any money?

I don't understand how malakas can even argue this with you.

Scientology forces you to pay money. FORCES.

Catholic and any Christian church ask for donations. Some people donate a lot, some people donate a few (1-2) dollars a month. If they donate a lot it's because they can.

Like heycal is saying, anyone can go to Catholic church for free all year round.

heycal
12-01-2009, 10:07 AM
I don't understand how malakas can even argue this with you.

Scientology forces you to pay money. FORCES.

Catholic and any Christian church ask for donations. Some people donate a lot, some people donate a few (1-2) dollars a month. If they donate a lot it's because they can.

Like heycal is saying, anyone can go to Catholic church for free all year round.

Thanks for helping set things straight here. I think Malakas has finally realized his/her mistake and is scooting for the door...

malakas
12-01-2009, 10:12 AM
haha no I'm not.I still think the same..in short that all churches are basically the same institution who are after the profit and take advantage of gullible victims..but beh!You lured me back here again!Ok,I'm out.!:p

heycal
12-01-2009, 10:25 AM
haha no I'm not.I still think the same..in short that all churches are basically the same institution who are after the profit and take advantage of gullible victims..but beh!You lured me back here again!Ok,I'm out.!:p

Here, let me help you:

If you want to slam churches, you may have better luck in arguing that they are really after your MIND, not your wallet. They want you to think and behave in a certain way, and if you give them a little money on top of that, all the better for them. Scientology, on the other hand, wants you to give them your money first and foremost, and if you happen to think and behave in the way they recommend, all the better. (This also insures that you will continue to give them money.)

Has does that work for ya?

shazbot
12-01-2009, 10:27 AM
haha no I'm not.I still think the same..in short that all churches are basically the same institution who are after the profit and take advantage of gullible victims..but beh!You lured me back here again!Ok,I'm out.!:p

lol. This part of your thinking I do agree with though haha. Do churches force you to pay money? Nope. But do they want your money just as much as the ******s in Scientology? Some of them, yea. But not like Scientology people do.

But also like heycal said, churches do much more for the community and such. Like youth group things, where they take kids on trips, and do fun things around the community, etc.

I used to go to church when I was young and did all this (mostly because my mom made me go to church) but I have not gone to church in years lol.

35ft6
12-01-2009, 10:35 AM
Is there?Because if what I remember is correct it comes from the Catholic Church the absolution certificates no?That rich people payed for all their sins to be forgiven. We're talking about today.Have we gone a long way since then,or simply they have learn to conceal it better?You tell me. Are they hiding it? If so, provide evidence. I know a lot of Catholics and church donation is entirely voluntary.People still pay money so they can help the church and so they can go to heaven.You don't have to give money to the Catholic Church. Period. You HAVE to give money to Scientology. It's like comparing a public museum where a donation is suggested to going to a movie.The Scientology doesn't seem different to me,only they are more frank about it ..and they ask more money.They require you give money. A lot more money. That's a huge difference.BUT my point is that people who join this...Look, I can tell you from experience that in the modern Catholic Church members don't have to give money. Ever. Period. The fact you're unwilling to change your opinion based on this new information is puzzling. Who cares? Just revise your stance to "religions usually ask for money" from "all religions are the same" and you won't be undermining your own point by overstating it. The world is grey. This shouldn't trouble you. Stop trying to make it so black and white.
I am not here to argue about the Catholic Church,if you're a member good for you.I was raised Catholic. I'm an atheist. I can tell you with absolute certainty that Catholic church goers can choose to never give a cent to their parish their entire lives if that's what they want to do.That's my personal opinion that churches are up there with politicians and journalists as parasites of the volk.Fine. That sentence alone, general as it may be, is "fine" with me, but your specific point about all Churches being the same is not true. If you were to say that all religions oppress women, I might agree. But if you were then to conclude by saying "that's why I think Islam as practiced in Saudi Arabia is the same as Southern Methodist in New Jersey" I would think you're nuts.That's why Scientology seem normal to me.I have a feeling you've defended your silly point so much now that you're never going to admit there are difference between religions. Rock on, man.

malakas
12-01-2009, 10:58 AM
Here, let me help you:

If you want to slam churches, you may have better luck in arguing that they are really after your MIND, not your wallet.
Has does that work for ya?

Yeah of course this works.I guess in general ..They're after power.This power comes from controlling the mind of people and from getting the money off people.

But do they want your money just as much as the ******s in Scientology? Some of them, yea. But not like Scientology people do.

But also like heycal said, churches do much more for the community and such. Like youth group things, where they take kids on trips, and do fun things around the community, etc..

The thing is..because they DO in the end want to take my money away even if they don't demand it but just beg/pressure me and other psychological ways they use to get it in the end(respect,threatening to go to hell etc etc) ,I put them together in the same category.Because the way I see it if you ask for one euro or one million euros from people to mediate between them and God it's the same hypocricy.

I know a lot of Catholics and church donation is entirely voluntary.You don't have to give money to the Catholic Church. Period. You HAVE to give money to Scientology. It's like comparing a public museum where a donation is suggested to going to a movie.They require you give money. A lot more money. That's a huge difference.
I didn't say otherwise,but in my books this difference-in the way/in the amount doesn't matter since in the end the aim is the same.

The fact you're unwilling to change your opinion based on this new information is puzzling. Who cares? Just revise your stance to "religions usually ask for money" from "all religions are the same" and you won't be undermining your own point by overstating it. The world is grey. This shouldn't trouble you. Stop trying to make it so black and white.

I didn't say anything about religions.All I said was about churches.Of course the world is grey.Nothing is completely evil or good.Even the churches that I said my opinion about,have done a lot of good too no denying it.They have initiated a lot of wars and resulted to millions of lives killed and blood shed..but some good they have done as well.

That sentence alone, general as it may be, is "fine" with me, but your specific point about all Churches being the same is not true. If you were to say that all religions oppress women, I might agree. But if you were then to conclude by saying "that's why I think Islam as practiced in Saudi Arabia is the same as Southern Methodist in New Jersey" I would think you're nuts.I have a feeling you've defended your silly point so much now that you're never going to admit there are difference between religions. Rock on, man.

lol I'm not a man and I am open to change opinions-I don't know everything and never claimed it.The thing is that no matter the arguments here my whole life experience since I stepped inside a church is backing my point.After all is not what someone tells you over the internet that's going to make a difference but what you see,witness learn everyday from real life.

For your example between Saudi Arabia and Methodists..you don't realise the criterion I put all churches together.The criterion is only that their uterior motive is to gain money/power and control people.And in this I can totally see similarity between the Methodists and the fanatics of S.A. ..oh and Scientology.

heycal
12-01-2009, 02:40 PM
Still not giving up I see.

Better to be stubborn than right, huh?

jmverdugo
12-01-2009, 05:05 PM
I was raised as a Catholic, all my School and High School was done in a Catholic School. Some Catholic Churches do ask for money but it is call the "alms" (I do not know if it is the proper word in english) and basically is very little money and you are definitely not forced to do it. From time to time some companies or organizations do big donations but again it is not forced, in some countries the goverment gives some money to this churches too. But, in reality, they do not need this money, the Catholic Church is one of most wealthies organizations in the world, they even have their own country! They already took all the money they could from kings and queens.

On the other hand Scientology is a very scary thing, well, maybe Catholicism was scary at the beggining too...

jonnythan
12-01-2009, 05:18 PM
I don't get the argument here. Scientology requires that you buy the information. Catholic church is free, but you might want to buy a Bible. Thankfully there are a lot of people and organizations willing to give you one for free ;)

You can be a real, "full" Catholic with all the information, access to priests for advice and forgiveness, all the services, etc, all for absolutely no money whatsoever. The poorest of the poor can get all of the information and services that the rich can. In fact, the Church will often go out of its way to minister and otherwise help the indigent.

That's simply not possible with Scientology.

heycal
12-01-2009, 05:43 PM
I don't get the argument here. Scientology requires that you buy the information. Catholic church is free, but you might want to buy a Bible. Thankfully there are a lot of people and organizations willing to give you one for free ;)

You can be a real, "full" Catholic with all the information, access to priests for advice and forgiveness, all the services, etc, all for absolutely no money whatsoever. The poorest of the poor can get all of the information and services that the rich can. In fact, the Church will often go out of its way to minister and otherwise help the indigent.

That's simply not possible with Scientology.

Everyone seems to know this but Malakas.

Come join us in the "JKF" thread, Jonny. Lot of EC loony tunes stuff going on over there.

jonnythan
12-02-2009, 08:45 AM
Everyone seems to know this but Malakas.

Come join us in the "JKF" thread, Jonny. Lot of EC loony tunes stuff going on over there.

I got my yearly fill of EC in the Obama/citizen thread. Maybe after the holidays I'll be ready for more ;)