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View Full Version : Why cant Davydenko accomplish this type of thing at slams?


TheChosenOne
11-29-2009, 02:18 PM
He can take out Fed and Del Potro and look like a big time player this. Take out Nadal, Djoker etc. Yet you know when the slams roll around, hes another one of the guys that just cant get it done when it matters most. Every now and then he does show he can play. Over the years, he hasnt proven he can win any of the big ones though

JeMar
11-29-2009, 02:22 PM
He's gotten to numerous slam semis, but he's lost to Federer three times and steroid-enhanced Puerta (6-4 in the fifth) in another. I feel like by finally beating Federer, Davydenko's ready to make the move at a slam.

MuseFan
11-29-2009, 02:28 PM
Harder for Denko to take out these players when they are fresher at the slams then the YEC. Also best-of-5 vs best-of-3 is a huge factor.

Rhino
11-29-2009, 02:52 PM
He doesn't like the spotlight. He does better at events that are less high profile. Even the WTF is unknown to non-tennis fans.

LiveForever
11-29-2009, 02:53 PM
It is easy for him to get it done in best of 3 sets match but in the slams, guys like Federer and Nadal always find away to beat him over the course of five sets. Oh and lets not forget that Federer and Nadal are in much better form at GSs.

President
11-29-2009, 02:57 PM
Federer/Nadal always raise their level at slams. Maybe his fitness isn't enough also to play at such a high level for 5 sets (although he is very fit). With his style of play, he needs to be in perfect position for every single shot. Otherwise, he becomes an UE machine.

Outbeyond
11-29-2009, 02:58 PM
I read recently that Davy thinks his niche is with the 3-set matches but not particularly with the 5 set Grand Slam events. I tried to find the quote he made on that subject and couldn't remember where I'd read it, but this recent quote from him earlier today will do:

"If Grand Slam is coming best-of-three sets, yes," he said. "I enjoy winning Slam, perhaps every one because winning in three sets is easy. I know del Potro was strong, and I know he can play first, second set and then third, fourth and fifth with really good power. That was maybe how beat Federer in the final of the U.S. Open."

link to the article:
http://msn.foxsports.com/tennis/story/10448350/Davydenko-proves-he-can-win-at-ATP-finals

pound cat
11-29-2009, 03:13 PM
Having won Barclay, and his game being full of confidence, he's ready for a Slam. In 10. At last.

makenakai
11-29-2009, 03:19 PM
Niko's Majors results are deceiving. Consider...

If not for the GOAT, he would have been in finals of
AO 06 vs Baghaitis. (I say Niko would have won)
RG 07 vs Nadal (3-4 HTH...better than Fed..toss up).
USO 06 vs Roddick. (perfect for Niko's game..IMO Niko would have won)
USO 07 vs Djok. (toss up)

given that Niko used to choke against Fed always... how would he have done in those Majors finals....?? I say, Niko would have beaten Bag and Roddick whose' games are the what Niko's loves best. Nadal..? toss up, Niko has a better HTH vs Nadal than Fed (3-4?), Djok...? toss up.

Is it mere fortune that Niko plays in Fed era? Roddick would have beaten maybe anyone except the GOAT at Wm...? alas we'll never know...

JoelDali
11-29-2009, 03:26 PM
Federer/Nadal always raise their level at slams. Maybe his fitness isn't enough also to play at such a high level for 5 sets (although he is very fit). With his style of play, he needs to be in perfect position for every single shot. Otherwise, he becomes an UE machine.

Totally correct.

InvisibleSoul
11-29-2009, 05:14 PM
RG 07 vs Nadal (3-4 HTH...better than Fed..toss up).

No toss up here. All of Davydenko's wins over Nadal have come on hard courts. He is 0-3 against Nadal on clay.

stormholloway
11-29-2009, 05:53 PM
It's mental, obviously. I saw him lose to Federer at that USO semi and he wasn't playing nearly what he's capable of.

coloskier
11-29-2009, 06:47 PM
It's simple. His body can't take the continuous pounding of a best 3-5 sets tournament.

NamRanger
11-29-2009, 06:59 PM
It's mental, obviously. I saw him lose to Federer at that USO semi and he wasn't playing nearly what he's capable of.



He's melted down in front of Federer numerous times actually.

edmondsm
11-29-2009, 07:10 PM
Combination of the pressure of the enviornment and best of 5 matches.

Bud
11-29-2009, 07:31 PM
He can take out Fed and Del Potro and look like a big time player this. Take out Nadal, Djoker etc. Yet you know when the slams roll around, hes another one of the guys that just cant get it done when it matters most. Every now and then he does show he can play. Over the years, he hasnt proven he can win any of the big ones though

His best surface is obviously indoor hard court. No slam is played on this surface in those conditions... and in only 3 sets.

I don't think Davy will ever win a slam.

jamesblakefan#1
11-29-2009, 07:57 PM
Niko's Majors results are deceiving. Consider...

If not for the GOAT, he would have been in finals of
AO 06 vs Baghaitis. (I say Niko would have won)
RG 07 vs Nadal (3-4 HTH...better than Fed..toss up).
USO 06 vs Roddick. (perfect for Niko's game..IMO Niko would have won)
USO 07 vs Djok. (toss up)

given that Niko used to choke against Fed always... how would he have done in those Majors finals....?? I say, Niko would have beaten Bag and Roddick whose' games are the what Niko's loves best. Nadal..? toss up, Niko has a better HTH vs Nadal than Fed (3-4?), Djok...? toss up.

Is it mere fortune that Niko plays in Fed era? Roddick would have beaten maybe anyone except the GOAT at Wm...? alas we'll never know...

I don't see him winning any of those, TBH.

-Baggy was playing lights out in AO 06, took out Nalbandian in the semis, who's IMO a better player and similar player to Davy. Pushed Federer pretty hard in that 06 final. Davy of 06 wouldn't have won that one.

-No way he'd EVER beat Nadal at RG, just like he's never beaten Nadal on clay. Not even a toss up.

-Roddick? No way. Roddick owned Davy up until Miami 08, and still holds the 5-1 h2h lead, no way he's beating Roddick in a USO final on home turf.

-And Djokovic was also playing great tennis USO 07, though I agree that may have been a toss up matchup, w/ the edge to Djokovic possibly.

To sum up, I don't buy him winning any of those slams you graciously give him. Not to mention the fact that even if there were no Federer, surely he wouldn't have just gotten a bye in the SF round. That's one factor you didn't take into consideration.

OddJack
11-29-2009, 08:00 PM
He cant keep it up mentally and physically. His body is not built to fight for 5 sets. Same thing with types of Simon and Cilic.

flying24
11-29-2009, 08:01 PM
I don't see him winning any of those, TBH.

-Baggy was playing lights out in AO 06, took out Nalbandian in the semis, who's IMO a better player and similar player to Davy. Pushed Federer pretty hard in that 06 final. Davy of 06 wouldn't have won that one.

Baghdatis only beat Nalbandian at the 2006 Australian Open since Nalbandian choked badly about 3 times. Nalbandian should have won that match in straight sets. If Davydenko had beaten Federer in that quarterfinal there is absolutely no reason he shouldnt have gone all the way. Davydenko of 2006 was better than any Baghdatis. Baghdatis's performance at this event was very impressive but still quite overrated by some. He beat a baseline pushing Roddick who soon fired his worst ever coach after that embarassing performance, and would take 7 months to recover from that extreme low in form. Then Ljubicic the weakest top 5 player in recent memory in a 5 set quarterfinal, and then a badly choking Nalbandian in a match Nalbandian mostly dominated. I would give any of Davydenko, Haas, or possibly Kiefer a great shot to have beaten him had they played him there.

-No way he'd EVER beat Nadal at RG, just like he's never beaten Nadal on clay. Not even a toss up.

Agreed.

-Roddick? No way. Roddick owned Davy up until Miami 08, and still holds the 5-1 h2h lead, no way he's beating Roddick in a USO final on home turf.

Maybe but the head to head with Roddick means pretty much nothing. All their matches except 2 were January 2005 or sooner. Since then they have only played twice and Roddick won once in 3 sets, and Davydenko won in straight sets in the other.

jamesblakefan#1
11-29-2009, 08:11 PM
Baghdatis only beat Nalbandian at the 2006 Australian Open since Nalbandian choked badly about 3 times. Nalbandian should have won that match in straight sets. If Davydenko had beaten Federer in that quarterfinal there is absolutely no reason he shouldnt have gone all the way. Davydenko of 2006 was better than any Baghdatis. Baghdatis's performance at this event was very impressive but still quite overrated by some. He beat a baseline pushing Roddick who soon fired his worst ever coach after that embarassing performance, and would take 7 months to recover from that extreme low in form. Then Ljubicic the weakest top 5 player in recent memory in a 5 set quarterfinal, and then a badly choking Nalbandian in a match Nalbandian mostly dominated. I would give any of Davydenko, Haas, or possibly Kiefer a great shot to have beaten him had they played him there.

Maybe but the head to head with Roddick means pretty much nothing. All their matches except 2 were January 2005 or sooner. Since then they have only played twice and Roddick won once in 3 sets, and Davydenko won in straight sets in the other.

I disagree on Baghdatis. We'll just agree to disagree then.

As for Roddick, if Davy isn't mentally strong enough, in his own words in big slam matches, no way he would've held up with the entire NYC crowd going for Roddick.

Not to mention Roddick was in great form that summer, probably the best since he won a slam, before this year's Wimby final. He had won Cincy (the 5th slam lol) that year, and actually pushed Fed in that final. Still I say no chance Davy would've taken down Roddick in that final.

Davy's had a great week, don't get me wrong, but I think it's overhyping him just a bit to say that Federer is the only reason he isn't some 3-4 slam champion.

BigT
11-29-2009, 08:30 PM
Davy's the man. He just has to realize that he is one of the best, and that he has to schedule his year like the best; not playing smaller events that just tire him out before slams. He has to gear up for the slams just like Fed and co. do.
He's won Master events where he plays top guys 3-4 days in a row. Slams have a day in between matches. He is in as good condition as anybody.

NamRanger
11-29-2009, 09:04 PM
I don't see him winning any of those, TBH.

-Baggy was playing lights out in AO 06, took out Nalbandian in the semis, who's IMO a better player and similar player to Davy. Pushed Federer pretty hard in that 06 final. Davy of 06 wouldn't have won that one.

-No way he'd EVER beat Nadal at RG, just like he's never beaten Nadal on clay. Not even a toss up.

-Roddick? No way. Roddick owned Davy up until Miami 08, and still holds the 5-1 h2h lead, no way he's beating Roddick in a USO final on home turf.

-And Djokovic was also playing great tennis USO 07, though I agree that may have been a toss up matchup, w/ the edge to Djokovic possibly.

To sum up, I don't buy him winning any of those slams you graciously give him. Not to mention the fact that even if there were no Federer, surely he wouldn't have just gotten a bye in the SF round. That's one factor you didn't take into consideration.



1. Davydenko would have gassed Baghdatis out. Baghdatis against Fed ran out of steam after the first set.


2. Roddick owned Davydenko early on, however, Davydenko is a different player.


3. Davydenko has played Nadal only a few times on clay (like 2 or 3). That's not a large enough sample size to say he could never beat him, especially when he was giving Nadal a run for his money at Rome one year.

jamesblakefan#1
11-29-2009, 09:22 PM
1. Davydenko would have gassed Baghdatis out. Baghdatis against Fed ran out of steam after the first set.


2. Roddick owned Davydenko early on, however, Davydenko is a different player.


3. Davydenko has played Nadal only a few times on clay (like 2 or 3). That's not a large enough sample size to say he could never beat him, especially when he was giving Nadal a run for his money at Rome one year.

1. He may have. We will never know.

2. Roddick was able to beat Davy at the 07 YEC, after he supposedly became so much of a different player. Again, I don't think Davydenko would have been strong enough mentally to overcome the NYC crowd against Roddick, who has plenty of big match experience, the crowd behind him, would have been ultimately motivated, was in great form in 06 summer. Sorry, no way I see Davy taking out Roddick at the Open, considering the form Roddick was in at the time.

3. Sorry, no. The match they had at Rome 07 was a classic, but I don't think Davy has what it takes mentally and physically to take out an 07 Nadal at RG on clay in a best of 5 match. Sorry, that ain't happening. Just b/c Nadal lost early this year's French, let's not forget how invincible he was on the stuff from 05-08. The guy's only lost on clay to 1 person from 05-07 - Federer. (Save for an early 05 loss to Andreev)

My point is, I don't see Davy winning that year, no chance. Again, Davy's a good player, but let's not make him like superman or some kind of a 3-4 slam guy just b/c he's had a good week. There's a long list of guys who we can say what if, if it wasn't for Federer, etc. Davy's not one of those guys I think belongs in that conversation.

crash1929
11-29-2009, 09:50 PM
to op: pressure changes everything

also is it me or does dav look like hes 55yrs old?

Knightmace
11-29-2009, 09:59 PM
Davydenko has beaten every single slam winner of 2009 in best of 3 so it shows he can do it, but best of 3.

kishnabe
11-29-2009, 10:00 PM
Maybe his wife cheering for him changed him this year to win the Master series Shanghai and TMC!So maybe the same thing for slam who knows.

jamesblakefan#1
11-29-2009, 10:01 PM
Maybe his wife cheering for him changed him this year to win the Master series Shanghai and TMC!So maybe the same thing for slam who knows.

I think his wife is at every tourney actually.

lambielspins
11-29-2009, 10:03 PM
Roddick was able to beat Davy at the 07 YEC, after he supposedly became so much of a different player.

and Davydenko also destroyed Roddick in the semis of the Nasdaq in 2008 after he became this much different player.

jamesblakefan#1
11-29-2009, 10:07 PM
and Davydenko also destroyed Roddick in the semis of the Nasdaq in 2008 after he became this much different player.

True but as the above guys mentioned the pressure would be much different in a slam final. One would have to think that Roddick would be heavily favored in a USO final, considering Davy's non experience in the GS final stage compared to Roddick, Home Court advantage for Roddick, and the form Roddick was in in summer 06.

Again, let's not make Davy some unstoppable force just b/c he had a good week, ok?

cork_screw
11-29-2009, 11:06 PM
Because it's a three set, 2 week affair. Different than playing round robin where a loss doesn't mean elimination. I'm sure there's a few guys who would love to play for a week and just have to worry about winning just 2 sets.

GustafsonFanatic
11-30-2009, 12:03 AM
He plays a high-risk game and needs a lot of concentration and strong nerves. He cannot sustain it over the length of an entire slam.

And he ran into Fed too many times.

obsessedtennisfandisorder
11-30-2009, 02:18 AM
He plays a high-risk game and needs a lot of concentration and strong nerves. He cannot sustain it over the length of an entire slam.

And he ran into Fed too many times.

I'm not sure about high risk game, but his backhand is sweet. I'm starting to like the guy for his all round industriasness etc but he's not winning slams anytime soon IMHO. he's a poor man's hewitt in my eyes.
decent top player but just doesn't have that x-factor or weapon to clinch a slam.

origmarm
11-30-2009, 04:46 AM
As I see it, the thing about Davydenko is that he's a "benchmark player". He plays reasonably consistently at a certain level with small peaks (as this week) and troughs (take your pick). If the top players are hot, they beat him, if they are not, they don't. The chances of him not running into one "hot" player during a slam are not as good as at an end of the season tournament. Hence the results as they stand.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
11-30-2009, 05:15 AM
He can take out Fed and Del Potro and look like a big time player this. Take out Nadal, Djoker etc. Yet you know when the slams roll around, hes another one of the guys that just cant get it done when it matters most. Every now and then he does show he can play. Over the years, he hasnt proven he can win any of the big ones though

He is the kind of guy who snikes in at night when everyone is asleep.
Also, 5 sets in GS, 3 sets at the WTF.

Anaconda
11-30-2009, 12:33 PM
No way is Davydenko winning any of those slams, especially 2006 US open. Blake would have KO'd davydenko and wouldn't have beaten Roddick.

NamRanger
11-30-2009, 01:33 PM
1. He may have. We will never know.

2. Roddick was able to beat Davy at the 07 YEC, after he supposedly became so much of a different player. Again, I don't think Davydenko would have been strong enough mentally to overcome the NYC crowd against Roddick, who has plenty of big match experience, the crowd behind him, would have been ultimately motivated, was in great form in 06 summer. Sorry, no way I see Davy taking out Roddick at the Open, considering the form Roddick was in at the time.

3. Sorry, no. The match they had at Rome 07 was a classic, but I don't think Davy has what it takes mentally and physically to take out an 07 Nadal at RG on clay in a best of 5 match. Sorry, that ain't happening. Just b/c Nadal lost early this year's French, let's not forget how invincible he was on the stuff from 05-08. The guy's only lost on clay to 1 person from 05-07 - Federer. (Save for an early 05 loss to Andreev)

My point is, I don't see Davy winning that year, no chance. Again, Davy's a good player, but let's not make him like superman or some kind of a 3-4 slam guy just b/c he's had a good week. There's a long list of guys who we can say what if, if it wasn't for Federer, etc. Davy's not one of those guys I think belongs in that conversation.




1. He definitely would have gassed Baghdatis. There's no way in hell Baghdatis even comes close to winning; he played multiple 5 setters and tough matches against Roddick and Ljubicic.


2. Roddick is favored by a small margin, however people tend to overrate how good he was playing at that USO. In fact, Andy Roddick got a miracle draw to even get that far, with past prime Hewitt in the QF, Youhzny somehow ending up in the SF, etc. In fact, Roddick had a really easy draw to get to that final.


3. Nadal is not invincible. They've played like 3 matches on clay, with the majority of them being pretty damn close. I think Davydenko can sneak a match or two.

jamesblakefan#1
11-30-2009, 02:57 PM
3. Nadal is not invincible. They've played like 3 matches on clay, with the majority of them being pretty damn close. I think Davydenko can sneak a match or two.

But at Roland Garros? Hell no. If he wasn't mentally strong/good enough to beat Federer, he wouldn't beat Nadal at RG in 07.

He may have taken a set, but physically, I think Nadal would have worn him down over the course of a best of 5 match.

Anaconda
12-01-2009, 06:23 AM
1. He definitely would have gassed Baghdatis. There's no way in hell Baghdatis even comes close to winning; he played multiple 5 setters and tough matches against Roddick and Ljubicic.


2. Roddick is favored by a small margin, however people tend to overrate how good he was playing at that USO. In fact, Andy Roddick got a miracle draw to even get that far, with past prime Hewitt in the QF, Youhzny somehow ending up in the SF, etc. In fact, Roddick had a really easy draw to get to that final.


3. Nadal is not invincible. They've played like 3 matches on clay, with the majority of them being pretty damn close. I think Davydenko can sneak a match or two.

I think Davydenko would have beaten Baghdatis - as you said, i would still favour Roddick over Davydenko because of Experience in slam finals. Roddick was actually lucky to beat Verdasco that year in 5 sets. No way is Davydenko beating Nadal at RG!

wangs78
12-01-2009, 06:57 AM
I think very few of the top players are playing their best tennis at the end of the year.

1. The Masters Cup is not nearly as prestigious as any of the slams and no one really gives a hoot if you win the Masters Cup but never won a slam. So the top players care less.

2.It's not leading into any of the slams so winning it doesn't really give the champion a big confidence boost the way Cincinnati or Madrid do. So the top players care less.

3. It's at the end of a long season, ppl are tired, achy and the last thing anyone wants to do is get injured heading into the offseason.

4. It's best of 3 format is more conducive to upsets

charliefedererer
12-01-2009, 07:50 AM
Those courts in London were just perfect for him. Just fast enough for his hard put away's, and just slow enough for him to play a lot of shots just inside the baseline on the rise. He's not going to see that at the FO, USO or Wimbledon. Maybe the AO, but he's yet to prove he can sustain it to take best of five from two or three top ten's in a row without getting exhausted.

TheChosenOne
12-01-2009, 07:58 AM
I think very few of the top players are playing their best tennis at the end of the year.

1. The Masters Cup is not nearly as prestigious as any of the slams and no one really gives a hoot if you win the Masters Cup but never won a slam. So the top players care less.

2.It's not leading into any of the slams so winning it doesn't really give the champion a big confidence boost the way Cincinnati or Madrid do. So the top players care less.

3. It's at the end of a long season, ppl are tired, achy and the last thing anyone wants to do is get injured heading into the offseason.

4. It's best of 3 format is more conducive to upsets


You noticed that too? If anyone would have told me that Davy would be the sole winner at the end of the year taking out the likes of a Nadal, Fed and Del Potro I would say you are crazy, it isnt going to happen. Maybe the top guys being burned out is the biggest season for this. Fed hasnt been playing well, Nadal hasnt been playing well since he returned from injury, Djoker has been alright.. Murray nothing great. Who would have thought?

Next year all the top guys will be ready though.