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grafselesfan
11-30-2009, 09:52 AM
Alot of guys had very successful hard court seasons in different ways. This includes Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, Murray, Del Potro, and Davydenko imparticular. Who do you believe had the best to sixth best hard court season out of these 6. Here are my rankings of best hard courters of 2009:

1. Nadal- he is the only one who won both a slam and a Masters. This gives him #1.

2. Del Potro- he had to win the Tennis Masters Cup final or the Canada Masters final to be #1 and he didnt. He has the biggest hard court title of the year and has owned Nadal head to head on hard courts this year but it isnt enough.

3. Federer- he has 2 slam finals and a Masters title. Definitely the #3 for the year on this surface.

4. Davydenko- he has the 3rd biggest hard court title of the year and another Masters. So I went with him for #4 even without much in the way of hard court slam results, which Murray also doesnt have.

5. Djokovic- I went with him above Murray since he has a slam semifinal and quarterfinal, plus 3 Masters finals and 1 Masters title on hard courts on the year.

6. Murray- he does have 2 Masters titles and 3 Masters finals. However this is overcome by his two 4th round losses in hard court slams, and Davydenko's TMC title combined with another Masters clearly trumps Murray.

stapler
11-30-2009, 10:04 AM
Hoo-rah, completely agree, though I wouldn't argue with anyone who put Murray over Djok

dh003i
11-30-2009, 10:04 AM
I think Del Potro comes in ahead of Nadal, but it is very close, because Nadal did much better than him before the USO.

flying24
11-30-2009, 10:26 AM
1. Del Potro.
2. Nadal
3. Federer
4. Davydenko
5. Djokovic
6. Murray

batz
11-30-2009, 10:51 AM
Alot of guys had very successful hard court seasons in different ways. This includes Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, Murray, Del Potro, and Davydenko imparticular. Who do you believe had the best to sixth best hard court season out of these 6. Here are my rankings of best hard courters of 2009:

1. Nadal- he is the only one who won both a slam and a Masters. This gives him #1.

2. Del Potro- he had to win the Tennis Masters Cup final or the Canada Masters final to be #1 and he didnt. He has the biggest hard court title of the year and has owned Nadal head to head on hard courts this year but it isnt enough.

3. Federer- he has 2 slam finals and a Masters title. Definitely the #3 for the year on this surface.

4. Davydenko- he has the 3rd biggest hard court title of the year and another Masters. So I went with him for #4 even without much in the way of hard court slam results, which Murray also doesnt have.

5. Djokovic- I went with him above Murray since he has a slam semifinal and quarterfinal, plus 3 Masters finals and 1 Masters title on hard courts on the year.

6. Murray- he does have 2 Masters titles and 3 Masters finals. However this is overcome by his two 4th round losses in hard court slams, and Davydenko's TMC title combined with another Masters clearly trumps Murray.


Murray leads the tour with 5 hardcourt titles to Davy's 3. Murray leads the tour on % hardcourt matches won. Murray has the best hardcourt head to head v top 8 on the tour. Murray has 2 x R4 losses in slams, Davy has 1.

I know I'm baised, but I'm struggling to see how 1 x WTF win > all that.

vanity
11-30-2009, 10:53 AM
delete post.

flying24
11-30-2009, 11:09 AM
What the heck has Djokovic won to be ranked higher than Murray?


He has done alot better in the slams. A semifinal and quarterfinal vs two 4th round losses.

Rhino
11-30-2009, 11:13 AM
You should work it out using points too. Add up what each player actually earned in ranking points on hard courts and then see how they rank after that.

sheq
11-30-2009, 12:56 PM
Alot of guys had very successful hard court seasons in different ways. This includes Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, Murray, Del Potro, and Davydenko imparticular. Who do you believe had the best to sixth best hard court season out of these 6. Here are my rankings of best hard courters of 2009:

1. Nadal- he is the only one who won both a slam and a Masters. This gives him #1.

2. Del Potro- he had to win the Tennis Masters Cup final or the Canada Masters final to be #1 and he didnt. He has the biggest hard court title of the year and has owned Nadal head to head on hard courts this year but it isnt enough.

3. Federer- he has 2 slam finals and a Masters title. Definitely the #3 for the year on this surface.

4. Davydenko- he has the 3rd biggest hard court title of the year and another Masters. So I went with him for #4 even without much in the way of hard court slam results, which Murray also doesnt have.

5. Djokovic- I went with him above Murray since he has a slam semifinal and quarterfinal, plus 3 Masters finals and 1 Masters title on hard courts on the year.

6. Murray- he does have 2 Masters titles and 3 Masters finals. However this is overcome by his two 4th round losses in hard court slams, and Davydenko's TMC title combined with another Masters clearly trumps Murray.

A decent list, ı agree with every number but murray could be at a higher place but definetely lower than no3

P_Agony
11-30-2009, 01:35 PM
Alot of guys had very successful hard court seasons in different ways. This includes Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, Murray, Del Potro, and Davydenko imparticular. Who do you believe had the best to sixth best hard court season out of these 6. Here are my rankings of best hard courters of 2009:

1. Nadal- he is the only one who won both a slam and a Masters. This gives him #1.

2. Del Potro- he had to win the Tennis Masters Cup final or the Canada Masters final to be #1 and he didnt. He has the biggest hard court title of the year and has owned Nadal head to head on hard courts this year but it isnt enough.

3. Federer- he has 2 slam finals and a Masters title. Definitely the #3 for the year on this surface.

4. Davydenko- he has the 3rd biggest hard court title of the year and another Masters. So I went with him for #4 even without much in the way of hard court slam results, which Murray also doesnt have.

5. Djokovic- I went with him above Murray since he has a slam semifinal and quarterfinal, plus 3 Masters finals and 1 Masters title on hard courts on the year.

6. Murray- he does have 2 Masters titles and 3 Masters finals. However this is overcome by his two 4th round losses in hard court slams, and Davydenko's TMC title combined with another Masters clearly trumps Murray.

Good post, though I think Murray had a better HC season than Djokovic.

T1000
11-30-2009, 01:56 PM
Nadal - slam ms title and consistency
Federer - 2 slam finals and ms title and WTF semi
Del Potro - slam + wtf final
Davydenko - ms title and WTF title
Djokovic - 4 titles (1 ms) U.S. semi, 2 ms finals
Murray - 5 titles (2 ms) 2 ms finals, but bad performance at slams and did not make it to the QFs at slams (separated from Djoko)

grafselesfan
11-30-2009, 02:42 PM
Actually as persistent as he/she was batz made some good points in the other thread. So Murray moves up to #4 or #5 on my list. Davydenko stays ahead of Djokovic. The funny thing is even Djokovic had a pretty darn good hard court season and ranks only #6 really, which just shows how many guys had really good hard court seasons, even if not one an even semi dominant one.

TMF
11-30-2009, 02:53 PM
What is rafa’s hardcourt record against the top 10 players since the US Open Series? It doesn’t look good, and you can’t rank him the highest.

T1000
11-30-2009, 02:56 PM
What is rafa’s hardcourt record against the top 10 players since the US Open Series? It doesn’t look good, and you can’t rank him the highest.

1 slam + 2 ms > 0 slams + 1 ms
Nadal > Federer

big bang
11-30-2009, 03:10 PM
What is rafa’s hardcourt record against the top 10 players since the US Open Series? It doesn’t look good, and you can’t rank him the highest.

sure you can, that just say something about how good he was playing the first 4 months of this season.. 1 slam+1 ms is more than anyone else has achieved this year. actually a bit scary considering that rafa wasnt in shape 2/3 of the season..

TMF
11-30-2009, 03:18 PM
1 slam + 2 ms > 0 slams + 1 ms
Nadal > Federer

I mistake.....what I meant was starting the US Open Series. Sure, he had a better results up to April. However he won nothing afterward til the end of the year. I think doing well in the 2nd half is more important than the 1st half.

flying24
11-30-2009, 03:20 PM
I think you could easily put Federer, Nadal, and Del Potro in a 3 way tie for 1st and Davydenko, Murray, and Del Potro in a 3 way tie for 4th. Nobody was clearly the best hard court player for 2009 really, and nobody is really worthy of that title on their own.

TMF
11-30-2009, 03:25 PM
sure you can, that just say something about how good he was playing the first 4 months of this season.. 1 slam+1 ms is more than anyone else has achieved this year. actually a bit scary considering that rafa wasnt in shape 2/3 of the season..

Ok, let’s do this again. Rafa is 1-8 against these guys on hardcourt since the Roger Cup in Canada.

1. Del Potro – Canada
2. Djokovic – Cincinati
3. Del Potro – US Open
4. Davydenko – Shanghai
5. Tsonga – Paris(WIN!)
6. Djokovic – Paris
7. Soderling – WTF
8. Davydenko – WTF
9. Djokovic – WTF

Roger, Roddick could of beaten him too but Rafa avoided them. How can he be the best went the top 10 owns him.

big bang
11-30-2009, 03:46 PM
Ok, let’s do this again. Rafa is 1-8 against these guys on hardcourt since the Roger Cup in Canada.

1. Del Potro – Canada
2. Djokovic – Cincinati
3. Del Potro – US Open
4. Davydenko – Shanghai
5. Tsonga – Paris(WIN!)
6. Djokovic – Paris
7. Soderling – WTF
8. Davydenko – WTF
9. Djokovic – WTF

Roger, Roddick could of beaten him too but Rafa avoided them. How can he be the best went the top 10 owns him.
based on what he won the first 1/3 of the year, everybody knows he has been out of shape lately, but he still won 1 slam + 1 ms who else did that?
better titles=better year, very simple.
Delpo second, Fed third..

Ledigs
11-30-2009, 05:24 PM
These are the same people who want to leve out clay when determining rankings. the first half of the year counts people.

brc444
11-30-2009, 09:21 PM
Bad results count too and with Nadal losing his last 4 hard court matches in straight sets you cannot possibly consider him having the best hard court season.