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View Full Version : Are you happy that you were bumped up?


ksteph
11-30-2009, 10:41 AM
Last night I sent emails to all of my friends who were bumped up. This morning I received a reply from one of my friends stating that she was very disappointed that she was moved up (3.5 to 4.0). She was hoping she could stay 3.5 so she could help her team get to sectionals and maybe nationals. Ummmm.......So it has me wondering, how many of you are happy that you were move up?

Cindysphinx
11-30-2009, 11:24 AM
Most people I have talked with are either happy about it or are resigned. I think it was smart of USTA to give everyone a heads up about the "restructuring." People don't feel that their bump was a fluke and feel there are still plenty of people at their new level they can beat.

I never thought I'd be delighted *not* to be bumped, but I am so pleased I won't have to lose to some people next year. And some ladies who spanked me moved to 4.5, so I won't have to play them ever again on this planet.

However . . .

I told my pro about the bumps among his students, and he said, "That's it then. You're going to make 4.0 next year."

: gulp :

duketennisgal
11-30-2009, 11:27 AM
I was pretty indifferent, I know that I was bumped to the level I should be at and the only level that I've ever played. I appealed down last year for medical reasons, but ended up only playing one regular league match and two mixed matches, winning all three.

I hadn't planned on playing anything but 4.5 league and 9.0 mixed so getting bumped back up to 4.5 didn't really matter.

Ripper014
11-30-2009, 11:28 AM
Most people I have talked with are either happy about it or are resigned. I think it was smart of USTA to give everyone a heads up about the "restructuring." People don't feel that their bump was a fluke and feel there are still plenty of people at their new level they can beat.

I never thought I'd be delighted *not* to be bumped, but I am so pleased I won't have to lose to some people next year. And some ladies who spanked me moved to 4.5, so I won't have to play them ever again on this planet.

However . . .

I told my pro about the bumps among his students, and he said, "That's it then. You're going to make 4.0 next year."

: gulp :



I don't get it... sounds like to me it is all about a number... It seems almost everyone is being bumped up, so those of you playing will still see the same opponents... all that has changed is that you will have a rating of 0.5 higher... the level of play has not changed from the previous year.

Much ado about nothing.

Cindysphinx
11-30-2009, 11:32 AM
I don't get it... sounds like to me it is all about a number... It seems almost everyone is being bumped up, so those of you playing will still see the same opponents... all that has changed is that you will have a rating of 0.5 higher... the level of play has not changed from the previous year.

Much ado about nothing.

Oh, it's much ado about something.

Fun = being the strongest at your rating level. Lots of playing time, a chance at post-season play, lots of winning, better partners.

Less fun = being at the bottom of your rating level. Losing a lot, being benched a lot, no chance to get on a top team, no chance to play post-season if your team advances.

Because I didn't move up, I have gone from being a middle 3.5 to a top 3.5. I know this because I can now gaze down at the universe of 3.5 players. This includes players like me, all the way down to 3.0s who were bumped last night. As I look at those players who remain at 3.5 with me, few strike me as unbeatable. I did not feel that way about many of the women who moved up to 4.0.

I've never had the good fortune to be a dominant player at my level. I was bumped from 3.0 after one horrific season and one middling season. 2010 is my big chance!

tarheelbornjohn
11-30-2009, 11:36 AM
Well, over half of the team I captain has been bumped and with ones that have been bumped over the past three years we can get back together. Bring up the ones that did not get bumped and we are one big happy family again.

Matt H.
11-30-2009, 11:59 AM
I was not bumped, but 2 of my teammates and a major reason i stayed with the team got bumped.

5 matches into the season. It's kinda stupid.

Ripper014
11-30-2009, 12:01 PM
Oh, it's much ado about something.

Fun = being the strongest at your rating level. Lots of playing time, a chance at post-season play, lots of winning, better partners.

Less fun = being at the bottom of your rating level. Losing a lot, being benched a lot, no chance to get on a top team, no chance to play post-season if your team advances.

Because I didn't move up, I have gone from being a middle 3.5 to a top 3.5. I know this because I can now gaze down at the universe of 3.5 players. This includes players like me, all the way down to 3.0s who were bumped last night. As I look at those players who remain at 3.5 with me, few strike me as unbeatable. I did not feel that way about many of the women who moved up to 4.0.

I've never had the good fortune to be a dominant player at my level. I was bumped from 3.0 after one horrific season and one middling season. 2010 is my big chance!

So what you are telling me is that the USTA has leveled the playing field... that all 3.5's in your division are equals. I don't see that as a bad thing... in fact that is the way it should be.

There is no perfect solution but balanced competition from top to bottom is ideal.

OrangePower
11-30-2009, 12:11 PM
Well, over half of the team I captain has been bumped and with ones that have been bumped over the past three years we can get back together. Bring up the ones that did not get bumped and we are one big happy family again.

Yeah I'm in a similar situation. So I'm really pleased with the way things have turned out. I was expecting to be bumped up at any rate based on my results last season, but I initially thought I might be the only one from my team and that I would need to find a new team at the higher level. But as it turns out, enough of my teammates also got bumped so that we can pretty much continue with the same team at the higher level. We won't be in the playoff mix but who cares, we will have a great time!

Perry the Platypus
11-30-2009, 12:20 PM
In general the bumping up process is a good thing, and it certainly appeared to happen with a vengeance this year. I can think of two situations where it can stink though.

My wife got bumped to 4.5 - there are only 2 4.5 teams in the area so her match opportunities just decreased significantly. She also cannot play tournaments because the women's 4.5 tourneys never make.

I saw several people get bumped up primarily due to their seniors records. this is going to relegate many of these folks to seniors only because they will not be competitive at their new level in non-seniors (not true of all, but definitely of some).

CrocodileRock
11-30-2009, 12:34 PM
I'm not happy, but not despondent either. Just a little disappointed. For one thing, I don't think I belong in 4.5s, judging on the other players I see there. For another, I was planning on playing seniors next year, but there are no senior 4.5 leagues in my area. Finally, I will cut down on tournaments next year, because as expensive as they are, it's not worth it to get wiped out over and over.

Guster62
11-30-2009, 12:52 PM
I knew I was going to get bumped after going 20-3 this year, but I figured it would only be half a point. However I got bumped a whole point. I could not believe it and never thought it would happen. I do not believe I am anywhere close to a 3.5 player, but than I look at the players that got bumped up in my league and realized that they deserve to be more angry than I am because its almost crazy seeing some of the players that got bumped. I just think way to many players got bumped that had no business getting bumped up and this spring season is going to be a lot of undefeated teams and a lot of defeated teams and the playing field will be even farther from being level.

RelivingMyTennisYouth
11-30-2009, 01:21 PM
After getting back into tennis (after a 33 year lay off), I was glad to be bumped up from 3.0 to 3.5. I put a lot of effort into this year with over 90 league and tournament matches. Not to mention countless for funs and a dozen or so lessons. I am not 100% sure I would have made it with a 33% win record, but I look forward to the challange anyway.

I probably will subject myself to getting killed playing in as many 4.0 leagues and tournies that I can. That is the only way to get better. I just don't get the king of the hill (Doninate the same level for years) mentality. Seem like tennis bullies who are actually afraid when they aren't walking on their on block.

marcl65
11-30-2009, 02:10 PM
Put me in the "not happy" category.

In my area, we had no 2.5 division. Consequently, new players/players returning to the game start out playing at the 3.0 level. Then we had a large field of 3.5 players and a smaller field of 4.0 and no 4.5 divisions or above.

What this "upgrade" has done is shift everyone upwards with the bulk of players crowding the 4.0 level…so what's the point? With most of the 3.0 players being rated 3.5, is the USTA telling me that a player that poofs his serves and pooches his fore/backhands (what the majority of our former 3.0s did) belongs at the 3.5 level?

I realize that the ratings system is relative but it seems that all this change has done is artificially inflate the upper levels while decimating the lower ones.

gameboy
11-30-2009, 02:21 PM
How is going from 85k to 50k (3.0) and virtually no change in 3.5, "decimating" the lower ranks?

Xisbum
11-30-2009, 02:28 PM
At first, extremely unhappy based on an 0-3 record in 4.0 super seniors, 0-6 in sets. Was just playing 4.0 to help a friend fill out his roster.

Now, meh. Whatever. Was losing interest in USTA Leagues anyway, so now I don't care what they (USTA) do. Doesn't mean anything to me except I'll save USTA dues every year. :neutral:

marcl65
11-30-2009, 02:49 PM
How is going from 85k to 50k (3.0) and virtually no change in 3.5, "decimating" the lower ranks?

85k to 50k...pardon my poor math skills but doesn't that equate to a 60% drop?

Plus, I'm talking about my local league. We have no 2.5 divisions. Regardless of the national effect, my area has virtually no 3.0 men to form a league and the majority of our players in the 4.0 division.

OrangePower
11-30-2009, 02:56 PM
85k to 50k...pardon my poor math skills but doesn't that equate to a 60% drop?

Plus, I'm talking about my local league. We have no 2.5 divisions. Regardless of the national effect, my area has virtually no 3.0 men to form a league and the majority of our players in the 4.0 division.

Here are the numbers charted out (national):

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=4161919#post4161919

The biggest impact is the reduction to 3.0 while increasing 4.0 by a similar amount.

Fedace
11-30-2009, 03:01 PM
I think being bumped up is a royal pain in the butt. You have to find a new team unless your entire team is bumped up with you...

fe6250
11-30-2009, 03:55 PM
Personally - I believe it depends a lot on your situation and it could be good or bad depending on your circumstances.

For me personally, I was finding myself stuck between 3.5 and 4.0 where the best of 3.5 was challenging but most of it was not competitive for me anymore. 4.0 was great, but the best of 4.0 was kicking my rump soundly. This moving of players will put better competition for me personally into play and being a 4.0 in the 'new 4.0' league should be a great improvement in the challenge level of the matches for me.

marcl65
11-30-2009, 04:31 PM
Here are the numbers charted out (national):

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=4161919#post4161919

The biggest impact is the reduction to 3.0 while increasing 4.0 by a similar amount.
Yeah, but look at the numbers themselves: the number of 2.5 & 3.0 players is now roughly 60% of its former level. That, to me, is a big hit to the individual pool of players competing at a given level. Is 3.5 the "new" 3.0 now?

Plus as another poster put it, once upon a time a given rating conferred a given ability (shot making, pace, direction control, et al). Does this change now mean that being a 3.5 simply means that you beat 3.0s and lose to 4.0s?

damazing
11-30-2009, 04:42 PM
I think that the playing levels at each level were not indicative of the actual playing ability for those levels for some time. It became what you described - Someone is 3.5 because they beat 3.0 level players and lose to 4.0 players.

With that said, I think that some of the people I played this year that got bumped up will find it really difficult at the higher level.

Conversely some people that didn't get bumped up will either go crazy with boredom if they play at their level or completely dominate at that level. Thankfully, they can always play up and those of us that played with them and know their skills will be happy to have them on our teams.

Jim A
11-30-2009, 05:57 PM
Absolutely, having been part of the problem I'm all for being part of the solution.

Happy to see the USTA realign the level of play to allow for an easier and more even entry into league play at the 2.5/3.0 level

ZenMac
11-30-2009, 08:51 PM
I'm happy to be bumped up to 4.0, as I posted a strong record and had been working hard towards it.

I'm not happy that someone from my team managed to go the entire year without winning a set and still get bumped up. Kinda diminishes the feeling of accomplishment for me.

brad1730
12-01-2009, 04:01 AM
Absolutely, having been part of the problem I'm all for being part of the solution.

Happy to see the USTA realign the level of play to allow for an easier and more even entry into league play at the 2.5/3.0 level

I agree. For the health of the sport, you need to make sure that people entering the 2.5/3.0 leagues don't get hammered right away.

Cindysphinx
12-01-2009, 04:29 AM
I knew I was going to get bumped after going 20-3 this year, but I figured it would only be half a point. However I got bumped a whole point. I could not believe it and never thought it would happen. I do not believe I am anywhere close to a 3.5 player, but than I look at the players that got bumped up in my league and realized that they deserve to be more angry than I am because its almost crazy seeing some of the players that got bumped. I just think way to many players got bumped that had no business getting bumped up and this spring season is going to be a lot of undefeated teams and a lot of defeated teams and the playing field will be even farther from being level.

So you were a 2.5 who got bumped to 3.5?

Yeah, I see your point. The gulf between 2.5 and 3.5 is absolutely huge, no question about it.

Still, if you dominated at 2.5, that means you were really probably a mid-3.0. Now you must play 3.5. But lucky for you, the floor of 3.5 has now dropped substantially. I think if you work hard and play your cards right, you could be competitive at 3.5.

jb193
12-01-2009, 07:41 AM
I'm fairly happy that they bumped me to a 4.0.. Last year, my matches were either me blowing somebody out or me being in a dog fight (which was fun and I what I wanted). Now, hopefully, all my matches will be competitive. I do expect to get thumped by a couple of guys, but even still, they will have to come to play to get their "W".......

wvtennis
12-01-2009, 11:00 AM
Im happy to sty at 4.0, but at the same time, my entire team got bumped to 4.5 except for me. My team finished 2nd in sectionals and all 13 other guys got bumped. I only played 4 matches last year because of an injury, which is probably what kept me at 4.0. I will now be at the very top of my level, at least locally, but I will have to find new teammates and a new team. So im happy and a bit disappointed.

MrTennis
12-01-2009, 11:06 AM
In general the bumping up process is a good thing, and it certainly appeared to happen with a vengeance this year. I can think of two situations where it can stink though.

My wife got bumped to 4.5 - there are only 2 4.5 teams in the area so her match opportunities just decreased significantly. She also cannot play tournaments because the women's 4.5 tourneys never make.

I saw several people get bumped up primarily due to their seniors records. this is going to relegate many of these folks to seniors only because they will not be competitive at their new level in non-seniors (not true of all, but definitely of some).


Has your wife thought about playing Mixed / Combo next season? She can play 8.0 with a 3.5 partner, and 9.0 with a 4.5 partner.

Blade0324
12-02-2009, 09:03 AM
I have mixed feelings about the moves. I am one that got moved from 3.5 to 4.5 so it is going to be really tough for me. I really expected to get moved to 4.0 even without this big move nationally but that seems to have pushed me even higher. I was 9-0 in league play, 4-1 at districts, 2-1 at sectionals. I also won 2 dubs tourneys and made the finals of our state open at my NTRP. I won one singles tourney, finals of another and semi's in two more. Over all I was at the top of my previous level so a bump is welcomed. However going to 4.5 and knowing a number of the 4.5 players in my area I am going to have to work really hard this winter to even have a chance in any of my future matches.
Overall I am excited about the challenge but it's going to be rough to lose so many matches this upcoming season.

Perry the Platypus
12-02-2009, 09:32 AM
Re - Mr. Tennis

Sadly we do not have combo leagues here. She will play 9.0 with me, but the 9.0 league here is really small and again the tournament fields don't make.

Not really complaining, but it is definitely true that as you move up the ladder you have fewer playing opportunities and play a lesser variety of players.

That said, it is still fun and every last match is uber-competitive. Even the scores that seem lopsided really are not. I walked away from winning 2 & 2 last year and feeling that I easily could have lost and losing 2 & 2 yet feeling that I should have won. That never happened at 4.0........

Perry the Platypus
12-02-2009, 09:33 AM
BTW - to clarify I am not saying that the players are lesser players (far from it!) but that there is less variety. People have similar styles.....

Wakenslam
12-03-2009, 10:08 AM
I'm a little bit disappointed about not getting bumped from 4.0 to 4.5, along with one of my friends. He went 8-0 at 4.0 and I went 7-1 at 4.0. Neither one of us got bumped. I guess now we'll be playing in a weaker 4.0 league?

Perry the Platypus
12-03-2009, 01:55 PM
OR...you could just play up.....

Dave Mc
12-04-2009, 07:34 AM
My wife was bumped up from 4.0 to 4.5, and at first she was upset about it. But after we looked through her singles tournament records (10-3 with no wins over 4.5 bumpees), and singles league records (9-7 with only 1 win over a 4.5 bumpee) we believe that we found the reason. That one 4.5 bumpee that she beat ( 5-7, 7-6, 10-8 ) in league is now a 4.5 benchmark, probably because she was undefeated at 4.0 league playoffs, and undefeated at state... plus this girl played up in a 5.0 league where she won 4 singles matches, and played up in a 5.5 league where she won 3 singles matches. My wife remembers being so thrilled and proud about winning that particular match, that even if it means getting bumped up for it, it was still worth it. (hey, at least she didn't say winning that match was better than sex, right?)

Jim A
12-04-2009, 08:07 AM
So she won 2/3 of her matches and is wondering why she was bumped up??

Geezer Guy
12-05-2009, 07:30 PM
I thought my only chance of getting to 4.5 was to be SOMEHOW included in the mass of 4.0's getting bumped up.

Alas, it was not to be.

SChamp
12-05-2009, 08:42 PM
I'm happy to be bumped up to 4.0, as I posted a strong record and had been working hard towards it.

I'm not happy that someone from my team managed to go the entire year without winning a set and still get bumped up. Kinda diminishes the feeling of accomplishment for me.

Bingo, I was going to say the same thing but you pretty much nailed it. I'm not letting it bother me too much though, I know I would have gotten bumped up regardless of this "update" to the system. And on an even more positive note, I'm really happy about most of the good 4.0's in my area getting bumped up to 4.5. My 4.0 team didn't have any players bumped up and already posted a pretty good record last season, we're hoping to win it this year.

MomentumGT
12-08-2009, 11:06 AM
I was hoping to get bumped after this season, but unfortunately/fortunately didn't get the nod. LOL. My dad and some of his 3.5 teammates got the bump while posting a couple wins above .500.

My league dubs partner got bumped from a self rated 3.5 to 4.5 which is warranted I guess as he rated very conservatively. It was his 1st time playing usta league and my 3rd season. This season we had only 1 loss @ #1 dubs and it was kinda close and the rest of the matches we dished out a beating. Apparently I'm a computer rated 4.0 so maybe after the spring season I'll get the bump.

-Jon

Lame_Backhand
12-09-2009, 06:50 AM
Bingo, I was going to say the same thing but you pretty much nailed it. I'm not letting it bother me too much though, I know I would have gotten bumped up regardless of this "update" to the system. And on an even more positive note, I'm really happy about most of the good 4.0's in my area getting bumped up to 4.5. My 4.0 team didn't have any players bumped up and already posted a pretty good record last season, we're hoping to win it this year.

I feel a little slighted as well, but am not going to let it bug me. I knew I was going to get bumped to 3.5, bump was surprised that some of the players that just got drubbed were also bumped up as well. I beat this one guy who was his team's captain and introduced his team as the next State champions in #1 Singles 6-0, 6-1, and I am really not that good of a Singles player. We beat his team 5-0. I saw him at a basketball game the other night and he was really ticked-off that he was bumped up to 3.5 as this year was going to be his year to win the State 3.0 title...... :( I feel that 3.5 this year is going to be last years 3.0 on steroids, at least in my local area.

Swing hard just in case you hit the ball.............

10sguy
12-10-2009, 09:06 PM
Yes, because it means my matches are much more likely to be competitive.

HunterST
12-11-2009, 08:43 AM
To me it seems like being bumped would be a good thing. The only way to get better is by playing with people of higher levels. Right now, my goal is to be the best tennis player I can possibly be, not necessarily to win every match. Then again, I only play on local "have a beer leagues" not USTA where there's actual championships and such.

Eviscerator
12-11-2009, 10:21 PM
In general the bumping up process is a good thing, and it certainly appeared to happen with a vengeance this year. I can think of two situations where it can stink though.

My wife got bumped to 4.5 - there are only 2 4.5 teams in the area so her match opportunities just decreased significantly. She also cannot play tournaments because the women's 4.5 tourneys never make.

I saw several people get bumped up primarily due to their seniors records. this is going to relegate many of these folks to seniors only because they will not be competitive at their new level in non-seniors (not true of all, but definitely of some).

This is one of the things I am seeing with players who are livid that they are now forced to play higher adult levels based on their senior results. I know a 60 year old who lost more than 50% of his adult league matches, but because of his senior results he now has to play at the higher adult level where he will be destroyed. He will stop playing adult as a result.

I think the USTA has made a big error and will see it's revenue drop as a result. If so watch how quickly they reverse themselves because they are all about the money.
`

OrangePower
12-12-2009, 11:25 AM
This is one of the things I am seeing with players who are livid that they are now forced to play higher adult levels based on their senior results. I know a 60 year old who lost more than 50% of his adult league matches, but because of his senior results he now has to play at the higher adult level where he will be destroyed. He will stop playing adult as a result.

I think the USTA has made a big error and will see it's revenue drop as a result. If so watch how quickly they reverse themselves because they are all about the money.
`

Yeah I agree. Some of those that got bumped have potential to improve by playing at the higher level, and even though the first season or two will be hard, in the end they will end up better players for it.

But on the other hand, some players were already as good as they were ever going to be. So now, playing against stronger competition, all that's going to happen is that they are going to get killed repeatedly - with no hope of improving. They will probably just stop playing league tennis as a result.

Geezer Guy
12-12-2009, 07:27 PM
I play both Senior and Adult, and I don't see that much of a difference between the two levels of play. Maybe at Super-Seniors there's a difference, but I don't see much change between a 40-something 4.0 and a 50-something 4.0.

Perry the Platypus
12-14-2009, 11:24 AM
The guys I had in mind are in the 60s (some 70s) range......

Fedace
12-14-2009, 11:31 AM
I play both Senior and Adult, and I don't see that much of a difference between the two levels of play. Maybe at Super-Seniors there's a difference, but I don't see much change between a 40-something 4.0 and a 50-something 4.0.

40 something is regular adult. maybe in doubles not that much difference. but in singles, younger guys play and i don't think 50 something can compete with 40 year old in singles..

tyro
12-14-2009, 03:21 PM
Ever since I've made improvement an objective, the year-end ratings process has been a source of anxiety.
--Tyro

http://tenniswire.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/year-end-ratings/

Eviscerator
12-15-2009, 11:15 PM
I play both Senior and Adult, and I don't see that much of a difference between the two levels of play. Maybe at Super-Seniors there's a difference, but I don't see much change between a 40-something 4.0 and a 50-something 4.0.

Well try playing a 19 year old in singles of the same relative skill level and tell me there is no difference.
The point is that while this player was in a middle of the pack in 4.0 seniors, he is below average in the 4.0 adult league, yet his senior results force him to play up in the 4.5 adult league. It will not be fun for him, nor his opponents.

tom10s
12-16-2009, 10:28 AM
Well try playing a 19 year old in singles of the same relative skill level and tell me there is no difference.
The point is that while this player was in a middle of the pack in 4.0 seniors, he is below average in the 4.0 adult league, yet his senior results force him to play up in the 4.5 adult league. It will not be fun for him, nor his opponents.

I have noticed lot of seniors in my area avoid adult league like the plague, lay low april-june, then emerge for senior league in july. Typically, these guys are no longer competitive at their official usta rating, and avoid adult league in order to remain competitive at artificially high usta rating. If they played adult league they would risk getting bumped down appropriately.

athiker
12-21-2009, 12:50 PM
Our teams have some older players (50's up to 60) that are very solid doubles players. They simply don't play singles in the spring league. There are 3 doubles courts (6 spots obviously) and 2 singles. Usually a younger player takes the singles court. Younger being a relative term! I guess if the older guys want to play singles they need to vote for singles to be added to an older league (I voted that way...I'm 46 btw and enjoy singles.) or find side matches.

I voted for the "adult", "senior", "super senior", "master" whatever to be simply called by their age range. Why make it complicated...the age range or minimum age is really all one needs right?

In the fall here we had a 6.5 and 7.5 adult, a 7.5 senior and a 7.0 mixed. The only 3.0's on the 6.5 team that didn't move up were 1st season self raters, all computer rated moved up to 3.5...so 4 of 6 moved up. Our team was 5-7 but did beat a couple of the better teams.

Here is the odd thing, on the 7.5 adult team they were all 3.5 going in to this season. They finished 2-7 but beat the undefeated first place team for in the final match of the season. Their only other victory was vs. the a team that finished 1-8. Six of eleven players on this team moved up to 4.0. 4 of the 5 that didn't move up?...they seemed to have benefitted by playing on the 6.5 team as well. Not one of the seven 3.5s that played on the 6.5 team were bumped up to 4.0.

I didn't go back and look at the spring season record, but I glanced at some of the mixed doubles results. Most of the players did better in that league so that may have influenced their bump up.

I was one of the 3.0's bumped up to 3.5. I'm happy with the bumps, my game has improved tremendously in the last year since I started playing again and I think I'm competitive with 3.5s of now or yesterday in singles and doubles. The biggest difference I think had been stroke consistancy both within a match and from match to match. I think I've improved that a good bit lately and the fact that many of the strong 3.5s have been bumped up to 4.0s should make next spring fun for doubles and singles.

They probably could've smoothed the bell curve a bit better, but overall I'm happy with it.

athiker
12-21-2009, 07:20 PM
I didn't go back and look at the spring season record, but I glanced at some of the mixed doubles results. Most of the players did better in that league so that may have influenced their bump up.



I got this link from another current thread: http://besttennislinks.com/USTA%20Ratings%20and%20How%20the%20System%20Works. htm

So much for my thought above; at the end the writer claims: "If you play same gender tennis (men's or women's) then the USTA uses those results only in your rating so your mixed doubles results don't count. If you ONLY play mixed then the mixed results will be used for your rating."

Anyone have any other sources for how the rating system works. The article does sound pretty logical, but I don't see a reference to his information or a date for the article.

TnTBigman
12-21-2009, 07:39 PM
I won't mind getting bumped up. My game would surely improve. The problem with that as other have alluded to is that higher level teams/leagues like 4.5 and 5.0 will be harder to find or require longer traveling time due to distance. I've also noticed that the game gets more serious from the 3.5 to the 4.0. The 4.0 are mostly about wining and the points are much shorter. 5.0 and up must be like a tournament setting- really short points (doubles).

athiker
12-22-2009, 06:10 AM
That's my experience too. The 3.5 matches I've been in are pretty social. Competitive for sure, but still a clear friendly edge...except for the occasional team or player.

The 4.0's games seemed clearly better and more serious than a 3.5's to me as well. It will be an interesting dynamic next year as so many 3.5's move up into the 4.0 ranks. As I recall a lot more 3.5s are moving into the 4.0 level and than 4.0s into 4.5.

RickGoulet
01-04-2010, 06:56 PM
Anyone have any other sources for how the rating system works. The article does sound pretty logical, but I don't see a reference to his information or a date for the article.

My source was:

11. Does the dynamic calculation apply to Mixed Doubles League play?
Yes, for players who participate exclusively in the Mixed Doubles Division. Mixed Doubles results will not be part of generating a player’s year-end rating except for those players who play exclusively mixed doubles.

Source: http://www.usta.com/USTA/Global/Active/Custom%20Pages/Leagues/~/media/USTA/Document%20Assets/Leagues_and_Tournaments/Leagues/NTRP_FAQ.ashx

GrandBanana
01-09-2010, 03:20 PM
NO, I'm not happy I got bumped up because I didn't get bumped up. I was basically the only person on the league who didn't get bumped up from 3.5 to 4.0 when almost everyone in the whole league around here did.

This totally sucks because I can (and HAVE) beaten quite a few of them and it was a total JOKE to see some of the people who now have a 4.0 rating --- don't know how many people in the area who sympathized with me about my getting screwed on my rating and all of the other people who get to play better tennis at the higher level this year, while I get to babysit all of the former 3.0s I know who can't hit a ball and got bumped up to the 3.5 level. This will be the WORST USTA year ever!!!!!

Don't know if I'll even play --- not if this is the case.
Totally sucks!
:evil::evil::evil:

OrangePower
01-09-2010, 07:00 PM
NO, I'm not happy I got bumped up because I didn't get bumped up. I was basically the only person on the league who didn't get bumped up from 3.5 to 4.0 when almost everyone in the whole league around here did.

This totally sucks because I can (and HAVE) beaten quite a few of them and it was a total JOKE to see some of the people who now have a 4.0 rating --- don't know how many people in the area who sympathized with me about my getting screwed on my rating and all of the other people who get to play better tennis at the higher level this year, while I get to babysit all of the former 3.0s I know who can't hit a ball and got bumped up to the 3.5 level. This will be the WORST USTA year ever!!!!!

Don't know if I'll even play --- not if this is the case.
Totally sucks!
:evil::evil::evil:

Hey, look at the bright side... you're going to dominate at the 3.5 level and your services will be in high demand. And you get to do all that 'legally', unlike all those who have to resort to sandbagging to be in exactly the same situation :-)

Geezer Guy
01-09-2010, 07:49 PM
... i don't think 50 something can compete with 40 year old in singles..

I assure you a 50 something can compete with a 40 year old in singles.

Well try playing a 19 year old in singles of the same relative skill level and tell me there is no difference. ...

The difference is the kid will be trying to blast winners every time he hits the ball and the adult will be trying to construct the point to match his strength to the kids weakness. I've seen plenty of those matches go either way. If the kid is on, he's likely to win. If he hits more errors than winners, he's likely to lose.

Geezer Guy
01-09-2010, 07:50 PM
NO, I'm not happy I got bumped up because I didn't get bumped up. I was basically the only person on the league who didn't get bumped up from 3.5 to 4.0 when almost everyone in the whole league around here did.

This totally sucks because I can (and HAVE) beaten quite a few of them and it was a total JOKE to see some of the people who now have a 4.0 rating --- don't know how many people in the area who sympathized with me about my getting screwed on my rating and all of the other people who get to play better tennis at the higher level this year, while I get to babysit all of the former 3.0s I know who can't hit a ball and got bumped up to the 3.5 level. This will be the WORST USTA year ever!!!!!

Don't know if I'll even play --- not if this is the case.
Totally sucks!
:evil::evil::evil:

You can appeal "up". Have you tried that?

++++++++++++++++++

Never mind - just saw that you tried that and it didn't work. Sorry.

GrandBanana
01-10-2010, 07:35 AM
Thanks for the sympathy on saying that I'll be King of the 3.5s...probably will. However, the reason I have been playing is to get my game back to where it was...if I'm playing with all of the 3.5s, I'm afraid that I'll be playing "down," as we all know that people have a tendency to play to the level of their opponents, whether they want to or not. I'm just going to have to wipe that all away and go in for the kill and smash them all 6-0,6-0.

Any advice on how to OFFICIALLY get the 4.0 ranking, as what I've done so far didn't work?

nkbond
01-10-2010, 07:56 AM
Thanks for the sympathy on saying that I'll be King of the 3.5s...probably will. However, the reason I have been playing is to get my game back to where it was...if I'm playing with all of the 3.5s, I'm afraid that I'll be playing "down," as we all know that people have a tendency to play to the level of their opponents, whether they want to or not. I'm just going to have to wipe that all away and go in for the kill and smash them all 6-0,6-0.

Any advice on how to OFFICIALLY get the 4.0 ranking, as what I've done so far didn't work?

Just play up...if you're that good, every 4.0 team will want you. There is no down side to being underrated. I repeat; there is no downside to being underrated.

athiker
01-10-2010, 10:10 AM
Ditto...it sounds like you may be in very regimented area, but for our neighborhood team people play up every season. A few 3.5s in our group that didn't get bumped up are every bit as good as some that did and they will still play with the same guys. Of course none of our teams have ever been in any danger of travelling to state championships or anything. We all just like tennis, enjoy competing and for the most part like each other!

We had a lot of guys on the spring 3.5 team that were 3.0s (though now are mostly 3.5s) and nearly our whole 7.5 fall team was 3.5s (though about half were bumped to 4.0).

rod99
01-10-2010, 10:12 AM
Thanks for the sympathy on saying that I'll be King of the 3.5s...probably will. However, the reason I have been playing is to get my game back to where it was...if I'm playing with all of the 3.5s, I'm afraid that I'll be playing "down," as we all know that people have a tendency to play to the level of their opponents, whether they want to or not. I'm just going to have to wipe that all away and go in for the kill and smash them all 6-0,6-0.

Any advice on how to OFFICIALLY get the 4.0 ranking, as what I've done so far didn't work?

just play in a 4.0 league. just b/c you're rated a 3.5 doesn't mean you can't play up a level.

GrandBanana
01-10-2010, 12:31 PM
Thx for the advice --- problem is that this area (metro Detroit) is EXTREMELY competitive when it comes to indoor USTA tennis. It took me 3 years after I moved here to even get on a USTA team at all...and I had to be taken in as a 3.0 provisional self-rated player at that. Tough crowd here.

I'm going in for a knee scope next week but should heal in no time, so playing in the spring may be out, unless it's a 7.0 mixed league and I'll play #3 mixed doubles for one or two weeks at the end of the season. Will be ready for men's summer leagues.

I hear you about finding a 4.0 men's team that will allow me to play provisionally as a 3.5. Problem is that I have already tried to do so for the last 2 years or so --- no dice. Unless you're a Roddick, Jr. and everyone knows you're going to be a ringer, or you know the coach really really well, then you basically play where you're rating is. Even at that, when you do play, they pit you against the opponents' best players to "sacrifice" you and try to win the other courts and win the day....which royally screws up your rating.

What worries me is that there won't be enough 4.0 men's leagues this summer, and those that are offered will automatically be scarfed up by those who actually got blessed the official 4.0 ranking. I'll just have to play what's available, but I have a feeling that I'll be looking at another 3.5 this December too. Grrrrr.

Maybe I'm overacting, but I really tried for this rating last year so I could get into better leagues and improve my game that much more --- I must really suck at this sport.

Backgammon anyone?

OrangePower
01-10-2010, 01:27 PM
GrandBanana,

As others have noted, the best way to get your rating up is to play against higher-rated players.

You don't even need to win - you just need to do better than the NTRP rating algorithm expects you to do, and you rating will improve. For example, if you're a 3.5, and you play 5 matches against 4.0s, and you lose them all but they are reasonably competitive (say an average score of 6-4 6-4), chances are that that's enough to get you bumped to 4.0 yourself.

I hear you about not getting invited to play on a 4.0 league team. So have you considered entering some USTA 4.0 tournaments? In most areas, tournament results count towards your regular NTRP rating. So that would be a way to play 4.0s. The other advantage is that you will be meeting people who most likely are also playing 4.0 league, and if you do well you have a good chance of being recruited to a 4.0 team.

rayrinker
02-01-2010, 08:28 AM
Here's a new one.

I am trying to figure out how to get my ranking back down to a 3.5 after having been bumped up by the USTA computer.

Here is my scenerio:
I have played mixed doubles tennis under the USTA since the Fall of 2009 (when I first got membership to the USTA.)
I was recently bumped up from a 3.0 to a 4.0 rating
I have only played in 6 matches in my whole USTA "career"
I have won only one (1) match
I joined the 7.0 mixed doubles team in order to help my team have enough players to form a team (and not forfeit matches)

I am trying to get my ranking back to a 3.0, or at least a 3.5 so that I can play with people my own speed. (My 3.5 friends KILL me on the court)
I have appealed, but the computer has denied my appeal stating "Automated appeal requested down for xxxx is denied - Rating outside appealable range."

Okay, so I called my regional representative and he said there was nothing I could do...
He gave me the name of the Sectional League Coordinator. Here is what she said:
I've looked into your rating and see what happened.
Only 4 matches were used to generate your rating, showing your record as 1 win and 3 losses. The other matches were played too late to be incorporated in your rating.
First, you self rated at the 3.0 level. Rather than play 6.0 mixed, you played in a 7.0 mixed league. This means that for the most part, your opponents were going to be rated higher than you. Therefore, you should have lost most of your matches.
The next issue is, you were a 3.0 self rated player playing with a 3.0 computer rated partner for 3 of those 4 matches. Therefore, you were a 6.0 combination playing against 7.0 combinations. You played one match with xxx, who was a 3.5 (now moved to 4.0). Once again, you had a 6.5 combination against 7.0 opponents. So, you played "up" and there is always more risk of being moved to a higher level when you do that.
You have already tried the automatic appeal, and you state it was denied because your rating did not meet the criteria.
I'm sorry, I know you don't want to hear this, but you have no other recourse. The automatic appeal option is final with no further appeal process other than medical. Medical must be a serious disabling injury or illness occuring after year end ratings were achieved.
I can only suggest that you play as much league tennis as you can in 2010, at your level, and see where you fall with the 2010 end of year ratings. The more matches played, the more accurate the rating.
If you have further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me.


OKAY - so that's what I am up against. What do you think I should do???
I want to play with my friends in their men's 3.5 ranking (doubles) league. Otherwise, I really don't want to play. I am not that good and I will get CREAMED if I play a 4.0 player. I have heard of players that try to get up to 4.0 for 10 years and can't make it. Why me...I don't want it!

Our tennis pro has attempted to assist me. He says that he has never heard of anyone being bumped up two levels...especially only winning one mixed doubles match. He has coached and played for over 20 years...

ANY CREATIVE SUGGESTIONS FOR ME???

thanks!

GrandBanana
02-09-2010, 08:53 AM
As you can see from my posts from the recent past, I'm not a fan of the NTRP system either, although I'm on the opposite end...I didn't get bumped up (3.5 to 4.0) and should have. I've also appealed, written emails to regional/sectional, and USTA HQ, and have been told to suck it up...you can't win.

I'm just as frustrated as you in having to play in a level that doesn't match your level of play. I'm worried that with the movement to bump up the 3.0s to 3.5s and 3.5s to 4.0s, that it will "water down" the play at the level. Now that I'll be at the top of the 3.5s (according to them), I'll be kicking *** on the courts, but my regional director said that there won't be too much movement this year because of the bump last year --- bottom line, unless you win your districts and/or are a standout on your team or kill everyone 6-0, 6-1, YOU AIN'T MOVING THIS YEAR! So, basically, I'll be stuck playing at a level I don't want to play in....hope you enjoy your new level...for life!

So much for customer satisfaction.