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Cindysphinx
12-01-2009, 07:23 AM
My efforts to improve my FH continue. The next problem I am trying to solve is weight transfer. 'Cause it ain't happening.

I am hitting with my arm, and I want to fix that. I am also dragging a hole in my right shoe toe, which is another sign of poor weight transfer (or so I've been told).

I started (or resumed) working on weight transfer yesterday in a lesson. The pro showed me what I was doing versus what is correct. After a while of my still not getting it, he suggested I try thinking about hitting and then "getting ready for the next shot." Meaning kind of hit and follow it immediately into something that looks like the ready position.

I tried doing that -- shoulder turn, racket back, weight on back foot, swing, immediate split step -- and it seemed better. Still . . . it doesn't feel right. It feels forced when it should feel natural.

Can anyone think of a way to explain this to me, especially those of you who teach? If your student is having trouble with weight transfer, what do you tend to tell them to fix it?

larry10s
12-01-2009, 07:35 AM
cindysphinx #1 do you think your problem with weight transfer has anything to do with fear of torquing your knee? #2 one way i use to help with weight transfer is to get my left shoulder to the ball as i prepare and get my right shoulder to the net after contact. i also try to get a feel of hitting the ball with my right hip and let my arm come along for the ride.
#3 another thing to try stand in a semi open or neutral stance and fold your arms across your chest (no racquet). pretend you wanted to hit the ball as hard as possible. you will probably push off your right leg and whip your torso into the imaginary ball .thats weight transfer.

skiracer55
12-01-2009, 07:49 AM
My efforts to improve my FH continue. The next problem I am trying to solve is weight transfer. 'Cause it ain't happening.

I am hitting with my arm, and I want to fix that. I am also dragging a hole in my right shoe toe, which is another sign of poor weight transfer (or so I've been told).

I started (or resumed) working on weight transfer yesterday in a lesson. The pro showed me what I was doing versus what is correct. After a while of my still not getting it, he suggested I try thinking about hitting and then "getting ready for the next shot." Meaning kind of hit and follow it immediately into something that looks like the ready position.

I tried doing that -- shoulder turn, racket back, weight on back foot, swing, immediate split step -- and it seemed better. Still . . . it doesn't feel right. It feels forced when it should feel natural.

Can anyone think of a way to explain this to me, especially those of you who teach? If your student is having trouble with weight transfer, what do you tend to tell them to fix it?

Try this. A good forehand, to me, looks like somebody throwing a discus. What you're doing when you throw a discus is to get the whole body wound up and then unwind the whole kinetic chain to generate angular momentum, then at the release, turn angular momentum into forward momentum to wing the discus out as far as possible in a straight line. One of my teaching tools is a Frisbee. I have you drop your tennis racket, get off the court, go find a large, open area and work on winging the Frisbee like a discus. The whole idea is to get really wound up, then release, where the kinetic chain starts down in the front foot, travels up through the legs, the hips, and the torso, and then the arm is just the end of the whip with all that power built up. You're not trying to hit anything in particular, you're just trying to get your windup/unwinding going to the max so you can wing the Frisbee as far as possible. Once you have that feeling, go pick up your racket and try to get the same kind of movement pattern going. Don't worry about where you hit the ball, just throw the discus and see what happens.

People always, I think, kind of imagine that weight transfer is this kind of clunky step/step from the front to the back foot. I think of it as a stride, almost a leap, and it's definitely not a pure straight line step/step...it's very circular, and that's where the power comes from...which is what you're trying to to with weight transfer, generate more power with your legs and trunk, not with the arm. You use the arm to direct the power, not to generate it. Tennis is not an arm sport, it's a leg sport. We all kind of know that's true in terms of good footwork being a prereq to getting in position to hit a clean ball. The second part of that equation is using your legs and torso to create the pace and spin you need...

larry10s
12-01-2009, 08:11 AM
Try this. A good forehand, to me, looks like somebody throwing a discus.

People always, I think, kind of imagine that weight transfer is this kind of clunky step/step from the front to the back foot. I think of it as a stride, almost a leap, and it's definitely not a pure straight line step/step...it's very circular, and that's where the power comes from...which is what you're trying to to with weight transfer, generate more power with your legs and trunk, not with the arm. You use the arm to direct the power, not to generate it. Tennis is not an arm sport, it's a leg sport. We all kind of know that's true in terms of good footwork being a prereq to getting in position to hit a clean ball. The second part of that equation is using your legs and torso to create the pace and spin you need...

i tried to convey something like your concepts with my #3 above. trying to hit the imaginary ball with your arms across your body forces you to rotate. most likely you would rotate away left should er to the ball and unwind right shoulder to the ball . or as you descibed coil/ uncoil wind/unwind

TenniseaWilliams
12-01-2009, 08:14 AM
I think weight transfer is a matter of timing and attention to your balance. Incorporating a step out was a major breakthrough for me. I took emphasis off of my hitting arm by focusing on the other working parts.

To use a step out, initiate your shoulder turn by taking a half step away from the ball with the foot that is the farthest away. (right handed forehanders would step out with the right foot) The step has to be small enough so that your hip (and then shoulder) can rotate behind the point where your foot touches the ground.

Your balance, knee bend, and position of your non-hitting arm across your body is very important to keep the flow going. Here is a recent BB post illustrating a great way to build a mental picture of the transfer:
You got it. When you are lowering your racquet and getting it ready to come forward, the importance of the knee bend starts to crystalize. The knee bend does several things with one of them allowing the hips to initiate your forward swing into the ball. Be careful not to over do it. It is simply part of your kinetic chain.

As an exercise, you can place your hands in front of you and keep them together (like you are praying). Now swing them back and forth in a figure eight style motion. When you want to swing your hands to the other side, the hips should initiate the movement and your hands follow. Keep repeating until you develop a ryhytm and flow. Back and forth, back and forth. Keep your knees bent while doing this. This is a great exercise to feel the kinetic chain on both sides.

Nellie
12-01-2009, 08:32 AM
try a two-step dance move where you start with your left foot off the ground (on the preparation/ take back) and end the stroke with your right foot slightly off the ground. If you go open- stanced, you will really feel the weight change from foot-to-foot. the timing may be off (where you shift too soon/too late) but I think this is pretty easy to feel once you incorporate the weight shift in your stroke)

wihamilton
12-01-2009, 08:47 AM
My efforts to improve my FH continue. The next problem I am trying to solve is weight transfer. 'Cause it ain't happening.

I am hitting with my arm, and I want to fix that. I am also dragging a hole in my right shoe toe, which is another sign of poor weight transfer (or so I've been told).

I started (or resumed) working on weight transfer yesterday in a lesson. The pro showed me what I was doing versus what is correct. After a while of my still not getting it, he suggested I try thinking about hitting and then "getting ready for the next shot." Meaning kind of hit and follow it immediately into something that looks like the ready position.

I tried doing that -- shoulder turn, racket back, weight on back foot, swing, immediate split step -- and it seemed better. Still . . . it doesn't feel right. It feels forced when it should feel natural.

Can anyone think of a way to explain this to me, especially those of you who teach? If your student is having trouble with weight transfer, what do you tend to tell them to fix it?

Hi Cindy. Next time you hit the court have someone drop feed you a few balls. If your partner feeds the balls a little bit in front of you you'll have to "go get it" (as opposed to when you're rallying / being fed balls from across the net -- these balls are traveling toward you). Typically this forces you to transfer your weight forward, into the court when you hit.

Try that and let me know how it goes.

Will

larry10s
12-01-2009, 09:35 AM
Hi Cindy. Next time you hit the court have someone drop feed you a few balls. If your partner feeds the balls a little bit in front of you you'll have to "go get it" (as opposed to when you're rallying / being fed balls from across the net -- these balls are traveling toward you). Typically this forces you to transfer your weight forward, into the court when you hit.

Try that and let me know how it goes.

Will

very practical advice. no wonder i always learn from your posts and website

Cindysphinx
12-01-2009, 01:39 PM
Oh, boy. I have some homework to do, clearly. Let me try some of this and get back to you.

Will, I often drop feed to myself. I assume that will work just as well, so I don't have to bore anyone senseless while I do this?

LeeD
12-01-2009, 01:42 PM
Most of us hit with openstanced forehands nowadays, so instead of foot weight transfer, we should be thinking torso twist with bent knees, and finish on the balls of the feet, not both heels.
Older eastern/conti grips had you close your stance, so you can transfer from right to left foot.

wihamilton
12-01-2009, 02:04 PM
Oh, boy. I have some homework to do, clearly. Let me try some of this and get back to you.

Will, I often drop feed to myself. I assume that will work just as well, so I don't have to bore anyone senseless while I do this?

Haha. I'd actually recommend you do it w/a partner. It's easier to focus on your mechanics that way. Also, in my experience people rush their technique a little bit when they feed to themselves, resulting in less-than-ideal execution. Not sure if this is true for you but it's something to think about.

wihamilton
12-01-2009, 02:05 PM
very practical advice. no wonder i always learn from your posts and website

Thanks Larry!

jmjmkim
12-01-2009, 02:25 PM
same problem. I have trouble transferring my weight properly.

crystal_clear
12-01-2009, 06:41 PM
cindysphinx #1 do you think your problem with weight transfer has anything to do with fear of torquing your knee? #2 one way i use to help with weight transfer is to get my left shoulder to the ball as i prepare and get my right shoulder to the net after contact. i also try to get a feel of hitting the ball with my right hip and let my arm come along for the ride.
#3 another thing to try stand in a semi open or neutral stance and fold your arms across your chest (no racquet). pretend you wanted to hit the ball as hard as possible. you will probably push off your right leg and whip your torso into the imaginary ball .thats weight transfer.
At first I thought this must be Cindy's #1 fan... :D

crystal_clear
12-01-2009, 06:43 PM
Hi Cindy. Next time you hit the court have someone drop feed you a few balls. If your partner feeds the balls a little bit in front of you you'll have to "go get it" (as opposed to when you're rallying / being fed balls from across the net -- these balls are traveling toward you). Typically this forces you to transfer your weight forward, into the court when you hit.

Try that and let me know how it goes.

Will

I seem to be able to move forward (weight transfer) for the short ball. But I have problem when incoming balls are deep and close to body.

crystal_clear
12-01-2009, 06:54 PM
My efforts to improve my FH continue. The next problem I am trying to solve is weight transfer. 'Cause it ain't happening.

I am hitting with my arm, and I want to fix that. I am also dragging a hole in my right shoe toe, which is another sign of poor weight transfer (or so I've been told).

I started (or resumed) working on weight transfer yesterday in a lesson. The pro showed me what I was doing versus what is correct. After a while of my still not getting it, he suggested I try thinking about hitting and then "getting ready for the next shot." Meaning kind of hit and follow it immediately into something that looks like the ready position.

I tried doing that -- shoulder turn, racket back, weight on back foot, swing, immediate split step -- and it seemed better. Still . . . it doesn't feel right. It feels forced when it should feel natural.

Can anyone think of a way to explain this to me, especially those of you who teach? If your student is having trouble with weight transfer, what do you tend to tell them to fix it?

I am a student and I am working on my FH as well.

I found Unit Turn is the cornerstone among the five fundamentals from FYB email lesson. When I turn shoulder facing sideway then take racket back, then swing forward to the contact in the front, the weight transfer seem to be natural. The left arm plays an important role to help unit turn.

I hit FH groundies with more depth and pace now. I need to bend the right knee more to store energy before I can release energy when hit through balls.

Rambler124
12-01-2009, 06:57 PM
While this may not relate directly to your problem it could have some effect to what you are trying to achieve. If you use too much arm to swing I highly recommend trying whats in this guys video. I've used this drill with a few students and have seen some nice results. Ultimately results in more body/core rotation and feeling that to hit the ball. Hope this helps. (doesn't necessarily show weight transfer from one foot to the other but may still help)

Enjoy! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifF_SX1rx9k&feature=player_embedded

Bungalo Bill
12-01-2009, 07:00 PM
My efforts to improve my FH continue. The next problem I am trying to solve is weight transfer. 'Cause it ain't happening.

I am hitting with my arm, and I want to fix that. I am also dragging a hole in my right shoe toe, which is another sign of poor weight transfer (or so I've been told).

I started (or resumed) working on weight transfer yesterday in a lesson. The pro showed me what I was doing versus what is correct. After a while of my still not getting it, he suggested I try thinking about hitting and then "getting ready for the next shot." Meaning kind of hit and follow it immediately into something that looks like the ready position.

I tried doing that -- shoulder turn, racket back, weight on back foot, swing, immediate split step -- and it seemed better. Still . . . it doesn't feel right. It feels forced when it should feel natural.

Can anyone think of a way to explain this to me, especially those of you who teach? If your student is having trouble with weight transfer, what do you tend to tell them to fix it?

Weight transfer is simply moving your mass/body from one position to another. When we are walking, we achieve this through each step we make as we move forward.

In tennis, on forward stances, you step toward the ball and then your swing follows. Your center of gravity should be moving forward or towards your front leg. If you were to continue to head in the same direction you would need to bring your other leg forward and your weight over that leg.

In an open stance you are still making your step, however, the weight transfer is more slight and you use angular momentum rather than linear momentum to send energy into the ball.

A simply way to learn weight transfer is to have your hand out like you are going to hit a forehand, step forward and swing. For the open stance your step is away from the ball but your momentum is angular towards the ball as it goes up.

For both steps you make in either of the stances, the step you take is your timing step and your swing follows.

When you do the drill above from Will, just make sure the ball feed is very easy and slow. You just want to get a sense of WHEN your forward swing should follow your step forward. Then pick it up.

Also, you can have someone feed you balls from BEHIND you. This will help you step and hit in front of you.

wihamilton
12-01-2009, 07:17 PM
I seem to be able to move forward (weight transfer) for the short ball. But I have problem when incoming balls are deep and close to body.

I am a student and I am working on my FH as well.

I found Unit Turn is the cornerstone among the five fundamentals from FYB email lesson. When I turn shoulder facing sideway then take racket back, then swing forward to the contact in the front, the weight transfer seem to be natural. The left arm plays an important role to help unit turn.

I hit FH groundies with more depth and pace now. I need to bend the right knee more to store energy before I can release energy when hit through balls.

Glad the course has helped. Regarding deep balls, a neutral stance -- where you transfer your weight forward, into the court -- often isn't appropriate. Rather, you should use a more open stance where your weight doesn't move forward nearly as much.

BB has done a nice job, as always, of explaining how the stance you're in affects your weight transfer above.

spacediver
12-01-2009, 09:39 PM
for the strokes where linear weight transfer is appropriate, perhaps it would help to visualize breaking down a door with your body.

Think about how much power your body can generate simply by its moving through space - some people can literally break through doors (at least in the movies).

Obviously the door breaking form is going to be different to the form you employ when hitting a stroke, but the idea of using your body's weight as a power source is the same.

KenC
12-01-2009, 09:55 PM
Sometimes we get crazy and end up with paralysis by analysis. Weight transfer is simply stepping into the ball. Before you hit a FH, plant your right foot then take a step to your left foot. As is usually the case in tennis, it all comes down to footwork.

albesca
12-02-2009, 02:12 AM
I think weight transfer is a matter of timing and attention to your balance. Incorporating a step out was a major breakthrough for me. I took emphasis off of my hitting arm by focusing on the other working parts.

To use a step out, initiate your shoulder turn by taking a half step away from the ball with the foot that is the farthest away. (right handed forehanders would step out with the right foot) The step has to be small enough so that your hip (and then shoulder) can rotate behind the point where your foot touches the ground.

Your balance, knee bend, and position of your non-hitting arm across your body is very important to keep the flow going. Here is a recent BB post illustrating a great way to build a mental picture of the transfer:

I'm working on the same problem these days and i seem TenniseaWilliams has right: that's a matter of balance management .
What i'm doing is feel the ground with my feet-balls and straightening the non hitting arm not "passively", but having the mind set to "jump" toward the ball. To jump is an exaggeration, but it helps me in understanding.
A two step move like is suggesting Nellie, helps me too in "how to time" this balance setting. I time it approsimatively when the shoulders finish to turn and the ball touch my court and bounce ..but different balls needs different timing .. and i am not able to tranfer the weight on each ball yet...

Ciao
Alberto

try a two-step dance move where you start with your left foot off the ground (on the preparation/ take back) and end the stroke with your right foot slightly off the ground. If you go open- stanced, you will really feel the weight change from foot-to-foot. the timing may be off (where you shift too soon/too late) but I think this is pretty easy to feel once you incorporate the weight shift in your stroke)

GuyClinch
12-02-2009, 03:59 AM
I found Unit Turn is the cornerstone among the five fundamentals from FYB email lesson. When I turn shoulder facing sideway then take racket back, then swing forward to the contact in the front, the weight transfer seem to be natural. The left arm plays an important role to help unit turn.

Yeah I agree. If you get that initial shoulder turn timed properly alot of problems seem to take care of themselves. And I actually think that the FYB video forehand is perhaps the best video lesson I have every seen.. With the caveat that video lessons only go so far because you don't see what YOU are doing wrong..

Personally (though this may be wrong) I don't worry about weight transfer unless hitting a neutral stance forehand (like an approach shot) or a volley.

On volleys the weight transfer is the real key to power so its much more critical as its a linear stroke. Forehands OTOH are often hit open stance and its more of a circular movement. So I just think of unloading from the loaded up outside foot.

Pete

Jagman
12-02-2009, 05:44 AM
The mechanism for weight transfer varies a bit, I think, depending upon stance. With a more traditional or neutral stance, the step forward is critical. Using an open stance along with more modern strokes, I believe the step forward becomes less important. There is still a forward shifting of the body's weight, but it is accomplished more through angular momentum and the kinetic chain.

I prefer to operate from an open stance where possible, as it gives me greater mobility laterally; my lateral movement can suffer occasionally due to age and joint stiffness. My comments, therefore, are directed towards use of the open stance.

One tip that I have found particularly useful is to focus on the concept of pulling through the shot. I can't execute a pulling motion without having the shoulders turn. By concentrating on the pull, the shoulder properly begins the unwinding of the spring and everything else, for me, just follows naturally.

Two corollaries with this: (1) be sure to complete your follow through; and (2) take care to ensure that you are on the balls of your feet. The body must be able to pivot on the balls of the feet for effective energy transfer to take place via angular momentum. There is the risk of injury if you remain flat-footed; depending upon severity of swing and initial movement to the ball, excessive stress can be placed on the knees and hips if the body cannot pivot.

I'll sometimes employ this notion by saying "pull" (akin to a clay pigeon shooter calling for the bird) just before initiating the forward swing, either silently or under my breath. If I'm really working it in a practice session, it may come out louder, in the form of a grunt, coupled with exhalation (similar to a Ki-yop, if you will). :)

Hope that helps. Cheers!

Bungalo Bill
12-02-2009, 06:17 AM
Sometimes we get crazy and end up with paralysis by analysis. Weight transfer is simply stepping into the ball. Before you hit a FH, plant your right foot then take a step to your left foot. As is usually the case in tennis, it all comes down to footwork.

Didnt I (we) already say this? And this phrase "paralysis from analysis" is a misused term that implies we as humans need little to no information to do something.

Yet the OP who has titled this post "Wrapping My Mind Around Weight Transfer" seems to not be at all afraid to gain more insight from various angles so she can digest and comprehend "weight transfer" for her game.

Nobody is getting crazy and all explanations have been good helping the OP gain insight to her questions and concerns.

This "paralysis from analysis" phrase that is thrown out there by those that "get it" over those that "don't" is what is crazy. Most of these people have never taught tennis and are usually the ones that are impatient with people that are stuck in a place of learning.

Thorough explanation on topics not easily understood by players is necessary and appropriate.

W Cats
12-02-2009, 07:20 AM
As someone said earlier weight transfer is simply the process of shifting weight from one foot to another. From a more technical stand point one can also look at the timming, amount, and direction of the transfer as well.

Sometimes confusion can come from the direction of the transfer as it relate to the orientation of your feet to the direction of the outgoing shot. For example; if you are stepping into a short ball and hitting a FH generally down the line one could say that the weight shift is of a forward nature. However if you are hitting an open stance FH one could also say that the weight transfer is more lateral in nature. They both shift weight from one foot to another in some degree.

On open stance forehands one of the ways that I check myself on if I've succesfully transfered my weight is if I start my shot with weight on my right foot then as I finish my shot, and the racquet has wrapped around the left side of my body, I am generally on the toe/tip of my right shoe (or pushed off the ball if I have to recover).

Vid of the Fed finishing on the toe/tip of right shoe in open stance FH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCm6OIjbPr4&feature=channel

dozu
12-02-2009, 08:12 AM
without vids, it's blind leading the blind.

post 1.

Cindysphinx
12-02-2009, 08:33 AM
What do you think about this idea of trying to do an immediate split step recovery as a way of stopping this toe drag? So it's load, hit, split (bringing the right foot forward aggressively rather than dragging it).

LeeD
12-02-2009, 08:47 AM
If you're right handed, and dragging on forehands, you have achieved weight transfer. You drag your toe to transfer weight to your left, or forward foot. Weight on foot means heel down. If, on followthru, your left foot is heel down, your right heel up, you've transferred.
You still haven't told us what your footwork is. Open. Closed. Semi.
As for wearing out shoes. Until I reached 59 years old, I would drag a hole in my toes in less than ONE month. Even $120 special durable toe shoes!
Tennis is expensive.

Bungalo Bill
12-02-2009, 09:22 AM
What do you think about this idea of trying to do an immediate split step recovery as a way of stopping this toe drag? So it's load, hit, split (bringing the right foot forward aggressively rather than dragging it).

Cindy, I dont think you need to do that. You need to push off with your outside leg for recovery and I wouldn't introduce something to weight transfer when you are probably doing it more than you think.

If you are dragging your toe, somewhere you are balancing your body weight. Since you mentioned the toe dragging is your back leg, that means your weight is balanced over your front leg. That means you transferredyour weight at some point in time. Now, it could be you are transferring your weight too late which would require an adjustment in the recommendations.

dozu
12-02-2009, 09:36 AM
don't think about weight shift. it happens naturally if you start in balance, swing in balance, and finish in balance.

http://www.youtube.com/user/clemshaw?blend=1&ob=4#p/u/95/T2FnfZlRwak

Bungalo Bill
12-02-2009, 10:27 AM
^^^ Actually players should think about weight shift to ensure they are doing it. It is irresponsible if a player asks about it and the coach says "dont think about it." That is flat ouot dumb. A good coach ensures that weight transfer is happening, explains things to the student to alleviate any doubts and then moves on. If a player wants to know more about the technical aspects of weight transfer the coach should explain it and not dish the student with an easy response "dont think about it" because the coach doesn't have a clue on how to explain it.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

dozu
12-02-2009, 11:57 AM
^^^
some people just never understand.

you think about the right things, and let the rest happen.

close minded people who can't grasp what others have to say, are the true dummies.

The type of teaching that stress body parts are exactly the kind that sucks in beginners, making them thinking they are getting valid advice or getting their money's worth.

everybody understands balance, we learned that since 3. make a balanced motion, everything else will be tuned correctly.

Bud
12-02-2009, 01:28 PM
My efforts to improve my FH continue. The next problem I am trying to solve is weight transfer. 'Cause it ain't happening.

I am hitting with my arm, and I want to fix that. I am also dragging a hole in my right shoe toe, which is another sign of poor weight transfer (or so I've been told).

I started (or resumed) working on weight transfer yesterday in a lesson. The pro showed me what I was doing versus what is correct. After a while of my still not getting it, he suggested I try thinking about hitting and then "getting ready for the next shot." Meaning kind of hit and follow it immediately into something that looks like the ready position.

I tried doing that -- shoulder turn, racket back, weight on back foot, swing, immediate split step -- and it seemed better. Still . . . it doesn't feel right. It feels forced when it should feel natural.

Can anyone think of a way to explain this to me, especially those of you who teach? If your student is having trouble with weight transfer, what do you tend to tell them to fix it?

When you strike the ball make sure you're either moving forward or leaning forward.

To practice it, when your opponent is serving... as soon as they toss the ball to deliver serve... from the baseline or slightly behind, start slowly moving forward into the court and then strike the return of serve. This works great with an opponent who serves a flatter ball (as a general strategy).

Sometimes on groundstrokes it can become a bit confusing since you'll be putting your weight into the shot (leaning into it as oppose to moving into it) and then moving backward after striking the ball (since your forward lean will result in a step forward). Your natural inclination will be to continue moving forward (an approach shot) since your weight is moving forward. But, only continue moving forward if you stretch your opponent wide.

Also, the only time, IMO, that you should be actively transferring your weight forward on shots is when your either in an offensive or neutral position in the rally. If you're playing defense... your primary goal should be placing the ball back over the net... and then as deeply as possible.

Approach shots are perfect examples of weight transfer forward.

ahile02
12-02-2009, 01:36 PM
So, the gist is:

Neutral = Weight forward, into ball

Open = Away from the ball (I'd like to hear more about this; away from the ball in what way? sorry, I'm kinda slow)

Semi = I'm guessing perhaps the medium between the two formers (?)

Bud
12-02-2009, 01:43 PM
So, the gist is:

Neutral = Weight forward, into ball

Open = Away from the ball (I'd like to hear more about this; away from the ball in what way? sorry, I'm kinda slow)

Semi = I'm guessing perhaps the medium between the two formers (?)

It sounds like you're referring to stances... I'm referring to rallies in my last post (#34)

When I say neutral... I mean a neutral rally, not stance. Perhaps, I'm misreading your post.

IMO, weight should be transferred forward when in an offensive or neutral exchange. When in a defensive exchange, it's really difficult to move side to side and also forward.

obnoxious2
12-02-2009, 02:08 PM
I tell them to LEAN. The timing of the lean is crucial. If you look at Federer during his practice rallying vids, he leans in basically right at contact which is why it looks like hes not trying yet he's getting that extra pop on the ball.

You want to lean forward into the ball but you can also slightly lean in the direction you want to hit to help hit a sharper angle. It takes practice against someone feeding you easy balls first before you try it in a hard rally

user92626
12-02-2009, 02:27 PM
cindy,

Weight shifting came fairly simply for me. I employ the symetrical steps used in many other sports such as soccer. Basically we don't shoot a ball with one step. Always take two.

Count along in your head:
1 (backswing/inside foot stepping/pivoting all happening simultaneously) - 2 (forward swing/unloading/making a step with other foot/body leaning forward).

Easy as a-b-c :)

So, ideally 2 steps to make a shot. Only hit on the wrong foot if you have no choice.

Cindysphinx
12-02-2009, 07:08 PM
In case it matters, I hit my FH either open, semi-open, or closed.

Seriously, I just hit it depending on the circumstances.

user92626
12-02-2009, 07:48 PM
"I just hit it depending on the circumstances. "
Sure, but good players dictate the circumstances.

I learned that open stance would kill your inside leg's knee from excessive torquing. Semi-open seems good but it encourages lazy, no-shoulder turning. I make sure that I'd hit most shots somewhere between semi-open and neutral. It's the combination of comfort and power, except more semi-open for xcourt. Closed stance is an oddity and should be avoided if you can. It's like one just finishes bowling a ball.


Seriously I encourage you to read up on the different stances and try to follow everything as closely as possible. We non-pro players play for anything but money or living so it's not worth injury. Just my 2 cents. :)

Bud
12-02-2009, 09:28 PM
In case it matters, I hit my FH either open, semi-open, or closed.

Seriously, I just hit it depending on the circumstances.

It makes no difference. You can either move or lean into your shot, regardless of your stance.

LeeD
12-03-2009, 07:18 AM
CindyS...
As long as you get off your right leg and weight the left on the followthru, you're OK.
Once again, toe dragging right means you did it.

Rambler124
12-03-2009, 08:55 AM
CindyS...
As long as you get off your right leg and weight the left on the followthru, you're OK.
Once again, toe dragging right means you did it.

Agreed. I don't see how the toe drag is a bad thing here. Chance at a video of your strokes? Perhaps would give better clues as to what could be going on here.

tennis angel
12-03-2009, 09:38 AM
Dear Cindy,

Weight shift is simple. No need to complicate it. Just shift from your outside foot to your inside foot. The only time this wouldn't apply is if you are wrong-footed in an emergency, in which case you just get back to a neutral, balanced position as quickly as possible. Put a cone on the center mark and stand in front of it. Have someone (or ball machine) feed a ball out wide to your forehand. Run toward the ball stalking it with your racket out in front, then stroke it with your weight on your outside foot in an open stance, shifting your weight to your inside foot as you lift up and across the ball, finishing over your shoulder. As your weight shifts to the inside foot turn toward the cone and run around behind it, keeping your racket on your shoulder as you circle the cone back to your starting position. Let the momentum of your swing turn you back towards the center smoothly. Repeat with the feeds delivered so that you you are running smoothly and consistently in a continuous motion. Be very deliberate in shifting your weight from outside foot to inside foot, keeping your racket on your shoulder after the finish and stalking the next ball with the racket out in front until the bounce. Reverse direction of the feed to repeat the drill for the backhand, emphasizing the weight shift from outside foot to inside foot on the open stance 2hbh (or "back" foot on the closed stance 1hbh to front foot as you pull up and shift onto your "front" foot, like Guga and Federer). This drill will instantly fix your weight transfer issue by helping you feel how your body needs to move efficinetly. You will find that stepping into the ball feels very unnatural (as you said in the first post of this thread) and that hitting across and shifting your weight from side to side rather than back to front is more instinctively comfortable and efficient. This is how I teach and my students are amazed at the instant improvement in this regard.

albesca
12-03-2009, 11:46 PM
Dedar Cindy,

Weight shift is simple. No need to complicate it. Just shift from your outside foot to your inside foot. The only time this wouldn't apply is if you are wrong-footed in an emergency, in which case you just get back to a neutral, balanced position as quickly as possible. Put a cone on the center mark and stand in front of it. Have someone (or ball machine) feed a ball out wide to your forehand. Run toward the ball stalking it with your racket out in front, then stroke it with your weight on your outside foot in an open stance, shifting your weight to your inside foot as you lift up and across the ball, finishing over your shoulder. As your weight shifts to the inside foot turn toward the cone and run around behind it, keeping your racket on your shoulder as you circle the cone back to your starting position. Let the momentum of your swing turn you back towards the center smoothly. Repeat with the feeds delivered so that you you are running smoothly and consistently in a continuous motion. Be very deliberate in shifting your weight from outside foot to inside foot, keeping your racket on your shoulder after the finish and stalking the next ball with the racket out in front until the bounce. Reverse direction of the feed to repeat the drill for the backhand, emphasizing the weight shift from outside foot to inside foot on the open stance 2hbh (or "back" foot on the closed stance 1hbh to front foot as you pull up and shift onto your "front" foot, like Guga and Federer). This drill will instantly fix your weight transfer issue by helping you feel how your body needs to move efficinetly. You will find that stepping into the ball feels very unnatural (as you said in the first post of this thread) and that hitting across and shifting your weight from side to side rather than back to front is more instinctively comfortable and efficient. This is how I teach and my students are amazed at the instant improvement in this regard.

I think many players, including myself, think they need to transfer the weight toward the ball ... and according to the ball direction after contact.
Is it a common mistake?

Then, for each stance, we would have a differents couple of shot-direction/weight direction ... isn't it ?

Ciao
Alberto

larry10s
12-04-2009, 04:01 AM
I think many players, including myself, think they need to transfer the weight toward the ball ... and according to the ball direction after contact.
Is it a common mistake?

Then, for each stance, we would have a differents couple of shot-direction/weight direction ... isn't it ?

Ciao
Alberto

alberto come sta lei ?? to me weight transfer is to get your weight foward. not necessarily according to ball diection after contact. i have a one handed backhand. i dont think i have a major difference in weight transfer going cross court versus short angle cross court except on the short angle i try to contact a little early and get more around the outside of the ball with more roll. another example. a cross court shot hit in neautral stance (forehand) or semi open stancedifferent stances same ball direction similar foward weight transfer.

albesca
12-04-2009, 04:19 AM
[QUOTE=larry10s;4171006]alberto come sta lei ??

Ciao Larry, io bene grazie. Hope you too.
Thank you for answer .. normally nobody replies to my posts .. maybe too stupid or wrong written.
If I have understood what means the last tennis angel post, hope my question make sense.

Ciao
Alberto

W Cats
12-04-2009, 07:50 AM
I think many players, including myself, think they need to transfer the weight toward the ball ... and according to the ball direction after contact.
Is it a common mistake?

Then, for each stance, we would have a differents couple of shot-direction/weight direction ... isn't it ?

Ciao
Alberto

Yes, I believe it is a common misconception among some of us who may have been playing for several decades or haven't had alot of instruction. How many times do you remember the phrase "step into ball", "shift your weight", etc.. It was pretty common for teaching neutral stance forehands and still common for volleys. I think the problem arises when lessons are taken sporadically along with reading the occasional tennis tip article that results in a player getting an incomplete progression of lessons. The brain tends to chunk information together when we try to make sense of things at a certain level - to the point where shifting your weight (weight shift) can easily = stepping into the ball.

Milan, I don't think I've ever knowingly communicated with anyone from Italy before. The internet is so cool.

If ciao=greetings.

Ciao
Gary

charliefedererer
12-04-2009, 07:56 AM
You have to stay balanced in a bow shape throughout your forehand (and backhand).

By bow shape, I mean your front shoulder stays over your front foot, and your back hip is pushed back.

In the closed stance, as you bring your racquet back, you accentuate your bow shape as you bend your knees. Keeping in balance as you bend your knees in a bow shape means the hitting shoulder stays over the front foot and your back hip automatically goes backward so your waist area is counterbalancing the more forward upper body. At the end of your backswing, with your knees maximally bent, you form the deepest bow shape with your body. You have been in balance all the way as you perform this squatting down motion.

As you swing forward you use the stored energy in your bow shaped body as the bow shape goes away as you stand up straight as you swing.

Again, you are maintaining your balance with your front shoulder over front foot as the backwards shifted waist area aligns with the chest that had been forward of the waist.



For the open stance, you go through this same assumption of a deeper body bow as you drop your upper body down on your legs (along with the upper body rotation backwards), and loss of the bow as you stand up (along with the upper body rotation back around).

Just concentrate on maintaining your balance as you let your upper body drop down and then push back up.
You don't have to individually think about what proportion of weight is on which foot.
You are free to concentrate with a still head focused on the incomming ball. Yes, your head, so critical for aiming does go up and down as you bend your knees, but it is not wagging back and forth or side to side. If it is, you are not staying in balance through your stroke. (And if you must have a visual aid for yourself, the only visual cue you can use as you track the ball is your front shoulder. Don't let it rise and fall during your take back and forward swing. By keeping both shoulders parellel with one another and the ground, you'll be maintaining that bow shape and proper balance.)

larry10s
12-04-2009, 08:05 AM
[QUOTE=larry10s;4171006]alberto come sta lei ??

Ciao Larry, io bene grazie. Hope you too.
Thank you for answer .. normally nobody replies to my posts .. maybe too stupid or wrong written.
If I have understood what means the last tennis angel post, hope my question make sense.

Ciao
Alberto

alberto, i went back and read tennisangel post.i understand your question better now (i think). the concept of outside leg to inside leg is a good one but also alittle misleading because you are not directing your weight sideways. due to the shoulder turn you have torque built up. you load up on the outside foot. as you uncoil your weight transfers to the inside leg but more in a rotational and foward direction. the foward part is toward the ball . the rotational part is toward the ball.
in boxing a right hand hook or round house you are going foward and rotating to the jaw as you transfer your weight. hope this helps.
p.s. merry xmas and happy new year to you and your family. ciao, larry

albesca
12-04-2009, 08:47 AM
Milan, I don't think I've ever knowingly communicated with anyone from Italy before. The internet is so cool.

If ciao=greetings.

Ciao
Gary

.. I afraid i'm the only italian here ...

"Ciao" is "Goodbye" :-) ..
Thank you

albesca
12-04-2009, 09:06 AM
[QUOTE=albesca;4171027]

alberto, i went back and read tennisangel post.i understand your question better now (i think). the concept of outside leg to inside leg is a good one but also alittle misleading because you are not directing your weight sideways. due to the shoulder turn you have torque built up. you load up on the outside foot. as you uncoil your weight transfers to the inside leg but more in a rotational and foward direction. the foward part is toward the ball . the rotational part is toward the ball.
in boxing a right hand hook or round house you are going foward and rotating to the jaw as you transfer your weight. hope this helps.
p.s. merry xmas and happy new year to you and your family. ciao, larry

I wrote something of similar in Mark Papas web site ( revolutionarytennis ),
he was writing about two direction for each shot, and in pictures he show the weight tranfer direction row , cuts diagonally the ball direction (to the opponent) row .

Maybe the answer is that each body move has its proper tranfer direction.

Ex.: if we want to hit offensive from the baseline, it's supposing we can step ahead .. so we need a forward tranfer move ( sorry coach Bailey .. :neutral: ) ..
if we want to hit defensive from the baseline, we need only pivoting on back foot (?) so the tranfer is a little different ..... if we are hitting on the run another kind of weight shifting is needed ..... :-?

Thank you Larry, Merry Xmas and Happy new year to you and your family too , and to all the forum readers.


Ciao
Alberto