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View Full Version : How The Heck Did I Get Bumped Up?


lordmanji
12-01-2009, 06:26 PM
ADULT LEAGUE:
Win 7-5, 2-6, 1-0 #3 Doubles 3.0 (my partner went to senior nationals)
DQ (due to partner who was bumped up to 3.5 midseason)
Win 6-0, 6-1 #3 Doubles 3.0
Win 6-4, 7-6 #2 Doubles 3.0

DOUBLES LEAGUE:
LOSS 6-3, 6-2 #2 Doubles 3.0
LOSS 7-5, 6-1 #2 Doubles 3.0
LOSS 6-3, 7-6 #2 Doubles 3.0 (team who went to sectionals)
LOSS 4-6, 6-0, 1-0 #1 Doubles 3.0 (one opponent had good rec in seniors, poor in adult)
WIN 6-3, 2-6, 1-0 #3 Doubles 3.0


IMPORTANT NOTES:
- two of wins were dqed so i really only won 2 out of 6
- wins were against players with poor records: 0-3, 4-14, 2-12 (one win via default), and 1-9
- played consistently at doubles 3 so did not sandbag and neither did opponents
- one match went to third set tiebreak which we lost and got bageled in second set
- took team that went to sectionals to a second set tiebreak which we lost
- 1 validated win was with partner who went to senior nationals

I appealed to the computer which was rejected; appealed to local league coordinator and she supported computer decision although I don't know if she read my points to her; emailed again and I think coordinators are looking at it again since I pointed out the computer possibly didn't discount the DQs

Cindysphinx
12-01-2009, 07:47 PM
Did your opponents get bumped also?

JavierLW
12-01-2009, 08:10 PM
1) The computer does not care if a match resulted in a DQ. DQ matches still count toward the ratings. (and of course they do, that would be an important match to generate ratings on) You still played the match after all.....

2) Ratings are not based on wins and loses. They are based on your game difference versus your opponents actual exact rating. (which you dont know because they dont publish that)

3) Ratings are not based on what position you played at. (see #2)

Also your coordinator has no input into it at all.

But CONGRATULATIONS on your move to 3.5! If you were ever going to get moved up, this is the year to do it because tons of your former 3.0 players will be there with you!

lordmanji
12-01-2009, 08:11 PM
Did your opponents get bumped also?

ADULT LEAGUE:
Win 7-5, 2-6, 1-0 #3 Doubles 3.0 opponents NOT bumped up
DQ (due to partner who was bumped up to 3.5 midseason)
Win 6-0, 6-1 #3 Doubles 3.0 ONE BUMPED UP/ONE NOT BUMPED UP
Win 6-4, 7-6 #2 Doubles 3.0 opponents BUMPED UP (went to sectionals)

DOUBLES LEAGUE:
LOSS 6-3, 6-2 #2 Doubles 3.0 opponents BUMPED UP
LOSS 7-5, 6-1 #2 Doubles 3.0 opponents BUMPED UP
LOSS 6-3, 7-6 #2 Doubles 3.0 team went to sectionals; opponents BUMPED UP
LOSS 4-6, 6-0, 1-0 #1 Doubles 3.0 opponents BUMPED UP
WIN 6-3, 2-6, 1-0 #3 Doubles 3.0 opponents NOT bumped up

ironically, the two teams we beat the opponents were not bumped up; all the teams we lost to were bumped up. i hope we weren't the benchmarks lol

the only guys that should be bumped up from my experience is one of the guys we lost to in the third set tie break in doubles league and one of the guys we beat in the last match in doubles league. all the other guys its a travesty that they bumped them and me up. im talking senior citizens who could barely move and are gonna get killed at 3.5 and i know many of the 3.5 guys and most were NOT bumped up and theyll get killed.

lordmanji
12-01-2009, 08:15 PM
1) The computer does not care if a match resulted in a DQ. DQ matches still count toward the ratings. (and of course they do, that would be an important match to generate ratings on) You still played the match after all.....

2) Ratings are not based on wins and loses. They are based on your game difference versus your opponents actual exact rating. (which you dont know because they dont publish that)

3) Ratings are not based on what position you played at. (see #2)

Also your coordinator has no input into it at all.

But CONGRATULATIONS on your move to 3.5! If you were ever going to get moved up, this is the year to do it because tons of your former 3.0 players will be there with you!

appreciate the information. nothing against you, but the computer not caring if a match was dqed is silly. my teammate was bumped to a 3.5 and those matches we lost so obviously the matches counted for and against something - our league records for one, him being moved to a higher level a second reason. of course i contributed but my teammate was great and set me up on a lot of the shots and took pressure off my serve by putting away volleys.

Cindysphinx
12-01-2009, 08:15 PM
Do the results from the "doubles league" even count? Around here, the only things that count are adult league and ladies day league (and seniors, of course).

Anyway, you beat players who were bumped. There ya go.

raiden031
12-01-2009, 08:20 PM
lordmanji,

Have you not been reading the boards the last few weeks?!? USTA has been saying they intentionally increased ratings. There are tons of mediocre players within any particular level who got moved up.

JavierLW
12-01-2009, 09:26 PM
appreciate the information. nothing against you, but the computer not caring if a match was dqed is silly. my teammate was bumped to a 3.5 and those matches we lost so obviously the matches counted for and against something - our league records for one, him being moved to a higher level a second reason. of course i contributed but my teammate was great and set me up on a lot of the shots and took pressure off my serve by putting away volleys.

I dont think it's silly.

You played the match, right?

Ratings are not based on wins and losses, so just because you "lost" due to DQ means nothing....

Why would it throw that match out?

The DQ is a result of the rating, not the other way around. It also "results" in you having a loss but that's irrelevant as far as ratings are concerned.

What is this "doubles league"? Was that USTA?

In my area, we have USTA Doubles league in the winter that are "non-progressive" (you dont advance to any playoff). Those count toward our ratings, maybe your's do as well? (I feel it's the one reason that myself and another player managed to stay at 3.5 when our partners in our normal summer league all got moved up.)

lordmanji
12-01-2009, 09:48 PM
I dont think it's silly.

You played the match, right?

Ratings are not based on wins and losses, so just because you "lost" due to DQ means nothing....

Why would it throw that match out?

The DQ is a result of the rating, not the other way around. It also "results" in you having a loss but that's irrelevant as far as ratings are concerned.

What is this "doubles league"? Was that USTA?

In my area, we have USTA Doubles league in the winter that are "non-progressive" (you dont advance to any playoff). Those count toward our ratings, maybe your's do as well? (I feel it's the one reason that myself and another player managed to stay at 3.5 when our partners in our normal summer league all got moved up.)

its silly because they in effect said due to one player cheating, this entire match for all players is not valid and will not count in the league record for anyone but it is valid enough that it will count towards your rating. they want it both ways. disqualify the match and punish your rating for it.

cak
12-02-2009, 12:32 AM
I suspect your double league results don't count, as that is a section league, not a national league. So you are 3-0 in the league that does count, with not really competitive scores. And everyone is getting bumped this year.

Cindysphinx
12-02-2009, 07:06 AM
its silly because they in effect said due to one player cheating, this entire match for all players is not valid and will not count in the league record for anyone but it is valid enough that it will count towards your rating. they want it both ways. disqualify the match and punish your rating for it.

The punishment for being above level is DQ. It is not sensible to also punish a player by changing his rating also. Doing so would screw up the ratings of everyone that player plays.

I would guess that the reason a DQ should count is that the computer knows precisely how far out of level the player was. The computer can simply maintain the spread between you and this out of level partner and treat the match like any other match.

Enjoy 3.5. You'll probably like it!

Nellie
12-02-2009, 07:11 AM
To me- it looks like your were competitive with teams that got bumped up, so your rating went up too.

JavierLW
12-02-2009, 08:58 AM
its silly because they in effect said due to one player cheating, this entire match for all players is not valid and will not count in the league record for anyone but it is valid enough that it will count towards your rating. they want it both ways. disqualify the match and punish your rating for it.

No that's not true.

It did count in the record (as a loss).

Losses are not part of how ratings work, thus it's perfectly fair that it affects your rating.

The whole premise for why that match is a DQ is BASED ON RATINGS so of course it's going to count toward everyone's ratings. (your partner got DQ'ed because he generated a rating that was two high for the third time in a season)

If you were playing in the 3.5 league and all four of you had the exact same ratings that you did at that moment (which is possible because you can play up), that match would count, the same numbers are involved. So there is nothing "special" about a DQ that should make it not count.

Match results (wins and losses) are not connected to ratings because it's supposed to be a SKILL rating, not a ranking.....

Kostas
12-02-2009, 09:11 AM
If you were ever going to get moved up, this is the year to do it because tons of your former 3.0 players will be there with you!

lol @ OP

C'mon man...you're still going to be playing with the same players. Suck it up and play.

My biggest beef if here:

http://www.mstennis.com/newsdetail.asp?ID=474

They state that 70% of players will remain at their level...that is definately NOT the case in Mississippi....it seems more like 70% of players (across the state) were bumped not stayed the same.