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View Full Version : Best hard court player of 2009.


grafselesfan
12-01-2009, 09:10 PM
I redid this poll as there was too much griping back and forth over who was and wasnt included so I included every plausible option. Vote for who you believe was the best hard court player for the year 2009.

GustafsonFanatic
12-01-2009, 09:15 PM
If you included Djokovic,Murray and Davydenko, where are Roddick and Verdasco?

grafselesfan
12-01-2009, 09:18 PM
If you included Djokovic,Murray and Davydenko, where are Roddick and Verdasco?

Since I am not going to go the full extent of the ridiculous and even include guys who didnt reach a single Slam or Masters final on hard courts for the year now on a poll about "the best" hard court player of the year. What would be next if I include Roddick and Verdasco, I should also include Tsonga and Monfils, then I should also include Gonzalez, Soderling, and Simon....until we are then including Donald Young. :) The 6 on the poll are the only guys who even reached a Masters final on hard courts this year (other than Monfils in Paris which was obviously an extreme singular result of his overall year on hard courts). That is enough.

jamesblakefan#1
12-01-2009, 09:31 PM
Still Nadal. Still had the most consistent year on HC in my opinion. Didn't have a single bad loss rankings-wise on HC this year. And I don't weigh his YEC result heavily, as I believe he wasn't giving his best effort mentally out there and preserving himself for the start of next year, instead of killing himself for the YEC.

Serendipitous
12-01-2009, 09:33 PM
Thomas Blake and Mun

GustafsonFanatic
12-01-2009, 09:42 PM
Since I am not going to go the full extent of the ridiculous and even include guys who didnt reach a single Slam or Masters final on hard courts for the year now on a poll about "the best" hard court player of the year. What would be next if I include Roddick and Verdasco, I should also include Tsonga and Monfils, then I should also include Gonzalez, Soderling, and Simon....until we are then including Donald Young. :) The 6 on the poll are the only guys who even reached a Masters final on hard courts this year (other than Monfils in Paris which was obviously an extreme singular result of his overall year on hard courts). That is enough.

I just felt like trolling. It's fun sometimes.

grafselesfan
12-01-2009, 10:27 PM
I just felt like trolling. It's fun sometimes.

Trying to fit in with the TW family. :) Good for you.

GustafsonFanatic
12-01-2009, 10:51 PM
I voted for Nadal.

btw GSF, I could never vote in your other thread. I was utterly appalled by the blatant underrepresentation of annoying, screaming pushers in your previous poll.

jones101
12-02-2009, 05:26 AM
I picked Nadal because

* The only one to win a GS & MS on Hardcourt this year.

* He acumilated the most point in HC this year.

* Losses (& YEC) aside, I dont think he lost before a QF in any HC event.

It has been a very even year on HC and could even say DP or Fed are a tie for no 1 along with Nadal, but IMO he is top HC this year.

veroniquem
12-02-2009, 11:03 AM
I picked Nadal because

* The only one to win a GS & MS on Hardcourt this year.

* He acumilated the most point in HC this year.

* Losses (& YEC) aside, I dont think he lost before a QF in any HC event.

It has been a very even year on HC and could even say DP or Fed are a tie for no 1 along with Nadal, but IMO he is top HC this year.
Neither Delpo nor Fed could be considered a tie for #1. Delpo because the USO is the only major title he has won this year (his 2 other titles were very minor), no master shield or YEC. I see Delpo as a very promising player who still has everything to confirm.
As for Fed, despite his 2 slam finals, he's won only 1 title on hard this year. This is the worst he's done since 2001. If Fed is declining, it's his # of titles on hard court that would be telling that story with the most clarity. Look at that pattern:
# of tournaments won on hard by Fed:
2002: 2
2003: 4
2004: 7
2005: 8
2006: 9
2007: 6
2008: 2
2009: 1
Steady progression, climax, slight decline, sharp decline.
The player who has won the most hard court titles this year (and the most master shields:2) is Murray with 5. But of course Murray botched the slams so he wouldn't be a tie either.
# of hard court titles won this year (among top 10)
Murray: 5
Djokovic: 4
Del Potro, Davydenko, Tsonga: 3
Nadal: 2
Federer, Roddick, Verdasco: 1
Soderling: 0

NLBwell
12-02-2009, 11:13 AM
Nadal at the beginning of the year, Murray in the middle, and Del Potro at the end. Therefore -- Federer. Not the best at any point but a factor throughout the year.

grafselesfan
12-02-2009, 11:15 AM
The best hard court player of 2008 was Djokovic by a long ways. I think 2009 is closer than 2008 but this year it is Nadal.

Rhino
12-02-2009, 11:24 AM
If you included Djokovic,Murray and Davydenko, where are Roddick and Verdasco?

They didn't even win a Masters Series event, plus neither made a hard court slam final...

Rhino
12-02-2009, 11:27 AM
# of tournaments won on hard by Fed:
2002: 2
2003: 4
2004: 7
2005: 8
2006: 9
2007: 6
2008: 2
2009: 1
Steady progression, climax, slight decline, sharp decline.


This is very interesting.
But I still think 2 hard court grand slam finals is no small feat.. no-one else managed that this year.

veroniquem
12-02-2009, 11:43 AM
Nadal at the beginning of the year, Murray in the middle, and Del Potro at the end. Therefore -- Federer. Not the best at any point but a factor throughout the year.
Del Potro at the end? :shock: I guess you missed the fact that Del Potro DID NOT win WTF and that before WTF he lost to Stepanek, Melzer and Vasselin (scratching head :-?)
The fall was all Djokovic and Davydenko. The beginning was Murray for # of titles and Nadal for importance of titles.
The summer was 1 big title for Fed, 1 big for Murray and 1 (the biggest one of course) for Delpo.

GrafisGOAT
12-02-2009, 11:45 AM
It is Del Potro and Federer. Nadal got lucky at Indian Wells and never should have won there. His only real hard court title was the Australian Open.

veroniquem
12-02-2009, 11:46 AM
This is very interesting.
But I still think 2 hard court grand slam finals is no small feat.. no-one else managed that this year.
Definitely. It's not like Federer will ever be a mediocre player and for anyone else it would be a tremendous achievement. It's only within Federer's own career/standards that 1 title seems quite a low point.

veroniquem
12-02-2009, 11:53 AM
The best hard court player of 2008 was Djokovic by a long ways. I think 2009 is closer than 2008 but this year it is Nadal.
The leader for # of titles on hard in 2008 was Murray with 5 titles of which 2 masters (+1 slam final) but of course Djokovic's 3 titles for that year were the most impressive: 1 slam, 1 master and WTF! I would still disagree that Djoko's domination was by a landslide just because 3 titles isn't that many no matter how big they are...

grafselesfan
12-02-2009, 11:57 AM
The leader for # of titles on hard in 2008 was Murray with 5 titles of which 2 masters (+1 slam final) but of course Djokovic's 3 titles for that year were the most impressive: 1 slam, 1 master and WTF! I would still disagree that Djoko's domination was by a landslide just because 3 titles isn't that many no matter how big they are...

Fair enough but I still think Djokovic was clearly the best hard court player in 2008. There could be no other choice. He won 1 of the 2 biggest hard court events (and was in the semis of the other), and also won the biggest hard court event after those two (the WTF), and a Masters on top of that. Murray won alot of hard court titles last year but like this year nothing bigger than a regular Masters. Atleast last year Murray made a U.S Open final, this year he has a super disspaointment in the biggest hard court events. I think Djokovic was a more clear best hard court player of 2008 than anyone is this year was my point. I still do feel Nadal is the best hard court player of 2009, but Djokovic last year was even more clearly the best hard court player than anyone this year. You are right landslide would be too strong though.

Cyan
12-02-2009, 02:02 PM
Neither Delpo nor Fed could be considered a tie for #1. Delpo because the USO is the only major title he has won this year (his 2 other titles were very minor), no master shield or YEC. I see Delpo as a very promising player who still has everything to confirm.
As for Fed, despite his 2 slam finals, he's won only 1 title on hard this year. This is the worst he's done since 2001. If Fed is declining, it's his # of titles on hard court that would be telling that story with the most clarity. Look at that pattern:
# of tournaments won on hard by Fed:
2002: 2
2003: 4
2004: 7
2005: 8
2006: 9
2007: 6
2008: 2
2009: 1
Steady progression, climax, slight decline, sharp decline.
The player who has won the most hard court titles this year (and the most master shields:2) is Murray with 5. But of course Murray botched the slams so he wouldn't be a tie either.
# of hard court titles won this year (among top 10)
Murray: 5
Djokovic: 4
Del Potro, Davydenko, Tsonga: 3
Nadal: 2
Federer, Roddick, Verdasco: 1
Soderling: 0

Interesting. At this rate fed wont win any hc titles in 2010.:shock:

dlk
12-02-2009, 02:08 PM
Went Nadal, but JMDP right behind.

brc444
12-02-2009, 06:26 PM
Still went with Del Potro. As I said in the other thread, I think Del Potro's
h2h with Nadal 3-1 and Fed 2-1 pulls him ahead.

veroniquem
12-02-2009, 06:57 PM
Still went with Del Potro. As I said in the other thread, I think Del Potro's
h2h with Nadal 3-1 and Fed 2-1 pulls him ahead.
That's a weird logic. In that case I could argue that his htoh vs Murray (0-3 this year) pulls him down. Htoh can bring additional info but I really don't think they supercede winning titles.

brc444
12-02-2009, 07:55 PM
I thought Nadal fans liked to focus on h2h. Del Potro has 3 titles so I am not discounting titles and while you referred to 2 of them as very minor -- I note Washington is a 500 point tournament. Del Potro, Nadal, and Fed had good results so I think h2h comes into play in that case as a deciding factor in who is the better hard court player of 2009. Murray because of his slam results did not seem close to the other 3 so I don't think h2h comes into play then.

NLBwell
12-02-2009, 09:51 PM
Del Potro at the end? :shock: I guess you missed the fact that Del Potro DID NOT win WTF and that before WTF he lost to Stepanek, Melzer and Vasselin (scratching head :-?)
The fall was all Djokovic and Davydenko. The beginning was Murray for # of titles and Nadal for importance of titles.
The summer was 1 big title for Fed, 1 big for Murray and 1 (the biggest one of course) for Delpo.

?????
Del Potro won the US Open and got to the finals of the WTF in the last 3rd of the year. That's pretty good.

Ripster
12-02-2009, 11:16 PM
I just can't vote Nadal despite him winning a GS and a Masters title on hardcourt. The fact that he was blown away on hardcourts multiple times throughout the year and that he was the worst player at the TMC sways my vote to either Del Potro or Federer.

However, I guess since he accumulated the most points then objectively one would have to say he is the best.

GustafsonFanatic
12-03-2009, 12:00 AM
I just can't vote Nadal despite him winning a GS and a Masters title on hardcourt. The fact that he was blown away on hardcourts multiple times throughout the year and that he was the worst player at the TMC sways my vote to either Del Potro or Federer.

However, I guess since he accumulated the most points then objectively one would have to say he is the best.

Nadal has 5925 and Djokovic has 5900 points on HC in 2009.

Del Potro has more points than Federer, but so does Murray.

Pointwise, the HC rankings are:

Rafa
Djoko
DelPo
Murray
Fed

anointedone
12-03-2009, 02:47 PM
Nadal easily. Nobody else came even close.

NLBwell
12-03-2009, 10:28 PM
Nadal easily. Nobody else came even close.

5925 to 5900 is pretty close. That's why this is an interesting poll, because there are good rationales for several players.

Ultimatum
12-29-2009, 02:13 AM
I think the situation is especially interesting this year, all Top 8 guys performed equally in general with exception of Roddick.

Fed: 1 MS, 2 GS Final, WTF SF
Rafa: 1 MS, 1 GS W, WTF RR
Novak: 1 MS, 1 GS SF, WTF RR
Murray: 2 MS, 2 GS R16, WTF RR, 2 Standard ATP Titles
Delpo: 0 MS, 1 GS W, WTF Final, 2 Standard ATP Titles
Roddick: 0 MS, 1 GS SF, WTF Did not play
Davydenko: 1 MS, 1 GS QF, WTF W, 1 Standard ATP Title
Soderling: 0 MS, 1 GS QF, WTF SF

These are general quickstats. I know there are players who are consistent through MS like Roddick and Djokovic but i wanted to make it quick

Tomaz Bellucci
12-29-2009, 02:17 AM
del Potro ten char

Anaconda
12-29-2009, 02:32 AM
Nadal was the best HC player. He did better at the US open than JMDP did at the AO, plus he has a masters shield under his belt from Indian Wells.

I'm sorry but why would you put Davydenko,Federer,Djokovic, Murray in there. The only 2 candidates are Nadal and JMDP!

Ultimatum
12-29-2009, 03:25 AM
Fed: Won 1 MS ( Delpo didnt, Nadal won 1 as well), Reached 2 slam finals ( Delpo won 1 and reached a QF, Nadal won 1 and reached a SF), hence they are almost balanced out in consistency. Also reached WTF SF. ( Nadal did not)

Murray: 2 MS titles ( More than any other player this year), Below par slam performance.

Djokovic: 1 MS title ( Also won some 3 ATP 500s) and also consistent through the MS ( reaching all QF and above), reached a QF and SF ( Below par but not too bad).

Davydenko: 1 MS title, an ATP title, Did not play at AO and reached USO QF
( So-so) and most importantly winning the WTF.

Quite sharp of you to point those 4 out. Soderling and Roddick did not achieve big results in HC this year.

anointedone
12-29-2009, 04:25 AM
The 3 "other" votes are intriguing to say the least. Who in the heck apart from those 6 could even be remotedly argued as the best hard court player of 2009? Roddick, Soderling, Tsonga, please.

TheFifthSet
12-29-2009, 04:36 AM
I voted for Nadal automatically but I would revise that and go with Delpo. Both have an HC slam. Nadal has a masters title as well while Delpo has an MS final, but Delpo has won 3 HC title whereas Nadal has won 2, plus he has a 3-1 h2h vs. Nadal on HC this year, and a better overall record vs the top 10 on HC. This and the fact that the USO is more prestigous than the AO, and Delpo had a pretty killer draw enroute to the title. Lastly, Del Potro made the MC final, while Nadal lost all three of his matches.

So it's close, but I'll go with Delpo.

clayman2000
12-29-2009, 06:02 AM
It is Del Potro and Federer. Nadal got lucky at Indian Wells and never should have won there. His only real hard court title was the Australian Open.

Lucky?

How is beating Del Potro,Roddick, and Murray in 3 days without dropping a set lucky?

Anaconda
12-29-2009, 06:02 AM
The 3 "other" votes are intriguing to say the least. Who in the heck apart from those 6 could even be remotedly argued as the best hard court player of 2009? Roddick, Soderling, Tsonga, please.

Well there should only be two options; Nadal and JMDP. The other options are pointless as you cannot argue there cases.

abmk
12-29-2009, 06:24 AM
Lucky?

How is beating Del Potro,Roddick, and Murray in 3 days without dropping a set lucky?

nalby had 5 MPs against him, from which he escaped

abmk
12-29-2009, 06:25 AM
Well there should only be two options; Nadal and JMDP. The other options are pointless as you cannot argue there cases.

I agree ......

kishnabe
12-29-2009, 06:28 AM
I wanna say Federer but the truth is Nadal is best Hard Court player of 2009 in terms of results. Nadal has won 1 grand slam and 1 master series title on hard. Even though Federer had got to two hard court slam finals and won one ms title. It is not better considering how Nadal played the Aussie open this year.

matchmaker
12-29-2009, 06:37 AM
For results: Nadal.
For play: Delpo.

C++ Primer
12-29-2009, 07:56 PM
Nadal > Del Potro

clayman2000
12-30-2009, 10:24 AM
nalby had 5 MPs against him, from which he escaped

Didnt Rafa hit winners on 3 of them? And I dont believe Nalby hit a UE in those 5.

Telepatic
12-30-2009, 10:28 AM
I voted for Federer but results show its Nadal being slightly ahead Delpo with 1GS , 1 masters and SF , while Delpo doesnt have masters title and has QF at his second grand slam, though he reached finals in London so that why its "slightly".