PDA

View Full Version : short ball put away


corno
12-03-2009, 04:06 AM
Hi
I have 2 questions/observations which sort of amount to the same thing;

When I hit with my typical hitting partners or those in the local ladder who hit a deep ball, its often forehand to forehand back of the court stuff. My forehand is properly following through - hitting right through the ball and hitting it pretty hard. (Extreme semi w)

However, once in a while I come across the odd player who has nothing like the weight of shot, almost eveything they hit is landing around service line (i wont call them a pusher as such...) but the ball bounces low, may often be sliced - and i find this a really crippling shot to handle. I just cant get my head around what to do with it. My first reaction is to really try and get under it and hit it back to their backhand corner, but its hard to get any pace on the ball when you are having to hit under it and still bring it into the court with topspin.

The normal result is then my forehand will follow through less and less well as you try to whip over the ball hitting crazy topspin to try and keep the ball in the court.

I'm sure this shouldn't be a difficult play, but it is killing me time and time again - and i'm losing cheap points the whole time. I could drop shot, but that is fairly weak and predictable to do the whole time.

Any idea's, tips?
Thanks

jrod
12-03-2009, 04:27 AM
^^^ Your thread title sounds somewhat inconsistent with how you should handle this type of ball. If someone is slicing you short in the court, then the response is typically NOT a put away shot. I tend to think of this as an approach shot which will generally require an additional shot or two on your behalf to win the point.

While the dropper is a viable option, you probably want to use this shot somewhat sparingly. Clearly driving the ball or pulling them out wide is pretty much off the table. I don't think hitting a spinny shot off a low short ball is the best strategy either since it's high risk and your ball will tend to sit higher in your opponents strike zone making it easier for them to pass or lob you as you're approaching the net.

Seems to me a slice deep to your opponents weaker corner is the preferred approach, although you could slice deep to either corner depending on where your opponent is. You could also approach deep down the middle with a low slice to take away the angles. If you hit it properly, you should have taken control of the point and are prepared to hit a volley or possibly an overhead on your next shot.

papa
12-03-2009, 04:50 AM
I thought he was asking about the returning the deep slice shot - interesting post and a ball that lots of players have difficulty with. Depending on the surface the ball almost stops after bouncing and catches you back too far and you end up reaching/lunging for the damn thing at the last second. Some are excellent with the drive slice which I think he probably is referring too - good shot that has found its way back into the game and used pretty freguently as a change of pace - this isn't a pusher type shot either as some seem to think. If you don't have this shot, learn it because it really comes in handy to shake up big hitters. I don't think its as effective outdoors on Har-Tru but it still works and you can drive a hard hitter crazy because they become impatient or get caught off balance.

From an every shot perspective I think its not a good choice because once you notice its coming on a regular basis your options increase. Its a tough shot to do well on the run so work them side to side and give them some slice back - not that easy to slice a slice. I mean you can do it but the results aren't pretty.

We all love to stay back and just bound the ball in these corner to corner practice sessions and your right its a pain when the other guy doesn't follow suit.

jrod
12-03-2009, 04:55 AM
I thought he was asking about the returning the deep slice shot - interesting post and a ball that lots of players have difficulty with. Depending on the surface the ball almost stops after bouncing and catches you back too far and you end up reaching/lunging for the damn thing at the last second. Some are excellent with the drive slice which I think he probably is referring too - good shot that has found its way back into the game and used pretty freguently as a change of pace......


Re-read his post. He specifically refers to it as a short put-away shot. In addition, in the body of the post he says:

However, once in a while I come across the odd player who has nothing like the weight of shot, almost eveything they hit is landing around service line (i wont call them a pusher as such...) but the ball bounces low, may often be sliced - and i find this a really crippling shot to handle.

Not deep....landing around the service line.

Regardless, for many this shot can be tricky to handle. I certainly wouldn't attempt a put away off this kind of ball.

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-03-2009, 05:53 AM
You will have to play right at the baseline imo if your opponent can hit this shot. Not 3 or 4 feet behind the baseline. Look to slice their slice into the corner then follow to the net.

5263
12-03-2009, 06:06 AM
To slice back a low slice is just about your only option. I love this play you bring up, cause so few have a good answer for it. The 3 options I suggest are to ck to see which he likes the least from you. First I would try the short angled low slice to his weaker side. Second I would try the deep corner slice rtn, and third I would see how he handles the drop shot rtn. If the deep corners wk for you, you can mix dropper and deep corners to keep him off balance.

marsh
12-03-2009, 06:19 AM
I play with a lot of locals that hit this shot on a regular basis. I usually encounter it at the 2-3 clincis that I go to every week. And, in my experience it is usually a backhand slice hit by sub-par players that don't have a dependable backhand. I have due to necessity had to work really hard on effectively addressing this type of situation. My 2 favorites are a week low forehand squash shot (I use this a lot because this situation annoys the s__t out of me and I like to return junk when I'm hit junk) and really low forehand (I generally take this very close to the boday and around the level of my knees, I can't get huge pace on it, but I can put a little punch on it).

I am not a 4.0 and these are just the ways that I have found to deal with this type of short skidding ball.

corno
12-03-2009, 06:39 AM
ha! - yup, marsh, you know what I'm talking about. Who said Squash destroys your tennis!
All good advice, thanks - my natural instinct is to be aggressive with it, but I am slowly realising there just isn't anything aggressive you can do with that low bouncing stuff. Problem is, I'm then caught in no mans land having given them a fairly playable shot to work with - then up goes the lob into the flood lights.....

jrod
12-03-2009, 06:43 AM
ha! - yup, marsh, you know what I'm talking about. Who said Squash destroys your tennis!
All good advice, thanks - my natural instinct is to be aggressive with it, but I am slowly realising there just isn't anything aggressive you can do with that low bouncing stuff. Problem is, I'm then caught in no mans land having given them a fairly playable shot to work with - then up goes the lob into the flood lights.....


My sense is you don't have an aggressive slice off either the FH or BH wing, right?

I've spent the better part of a year working on my approach game and this shot is absolutely essential in order to effectively approach the net off low, mid-court skidders. Without it, you really are vulnerable regardless as to whether you approach or retreat.

LeeD
12-03-2009, 07:04 AM
First choice is conti gripped approach shot, deep into the open court OR behind the player.
Second choice, more often used on forehands, is the whipping outside of the ball topspin with side, much slower than normal forehand, much more top/outside sidespin, like what you have been doing.
Key is early footwork, racketback early to account for weird bounce, eyes on ball, and set your feet before the shot. Nadal is really good at this one, and some vids of Ferrero and Hewitt hitting this are floating around.
Hit with a more violent, but more compact swing.

jrod
12-03-2009, 07:46 AM
.....Second choice, more often used on forehands, is the whipping outside of the ball topspin with side, much slower than normal forehand, much more top/outside sidespin, like what you have been doing.....


LeeD- The reason I don't like this option as much (at least for my game) is because it is low percentage, and the ball sits up more than when you hit a slice, making you more vulnerable to being passed. I agree it's a great shot....when you hit it perfectly.

corno
12-03-2009, 07:59 AM
My sense is you don't have an aggressive slice off either the FH or BH wing, right?

I've spent the better part of a year working on my approach game and this shot is absolutely essential in order to effectively approach the net off low, mid-court skidders. Without it, you really are vulnerable regardless as to whether you approach or retreat.


On the forehand, yes you are right. Although i don't really understand the mechanics of performing an aggressive slice shot (either wing) when the ball has to go up over the net first. If anything i can only ever see it being a kind of neutral shot - but I appreciate..practice makes perfect, and I probably don't practice these shots enough. Instinct would be to go with the whippy forehand but its not winning me matches.

LeeD
12-03-2009, 08:02 AM
Maybe that's why it's my second choice.
But if my opponent has given my a short ball to my forehand, and he covers my DTL slice approach, a CC with heavy side/top will be a winner, as it's going away from him, and he's covering my DTL shot.
This CC with heavy whipping top is a real loser for me in doubles. Everyone just uses my pace to block a low ball back up the center, forcing my team to hit a knee high volley.

Nellie
12-03-2009, 08:13 AM
If the ball is below the net height (either did not bounce up or you did not get there fast enough) you cannot safely blast a return . Per comments above, you need to think about positioning to set up the next point - whether you want to hit deep and low for an approach or a short, highly angled shot with heavy topspin.

What won't as work is to roll back a topspin shot with medium pace that the opponent can take a good swing at.

jrod
12-03-2009, 08:15 AM
Maybe that's why it's my second choice.
But if my opponent has given my a short ball to my forehand, and he covers my DTL slice approach, a CC with heavy side/top will be a winner, as it's going away from him, and he's covering my DTL shot.
This CC with heavy whipping top is a real loser for me in doubles. Everyone just uses my pace to block a low ball back up the center, forcing my team to hit a knee high volley.


It's all about the percentages...I hit with my club pro 1x per week. He's a solid 5.0 player and I'm a lowly 4.0 player (well, maybe 4.5 given the rash of 3.5's entering the 4.0 domain). Anyway, when he hits the CC shot his success rate is less than 33%. The vast majority are errors from him which is not good considering his alternatives. If instead he opts for a slice, even right back to me, his chances of winning the point are probably greater than 67%. I have a decent passing shot and a good lob, but he's not someone I'd lob unless he was on top of the net and he's a beast at the net requiring my passing shot to be nearly perfect. So the odds flip in his favor 2:1 by hitting the high percentage shot instead of the low percentage winner.

LeeD
12-03-2009, 08:18 AM
1st choice vs 2nd choice.
Of course, 3rd choice would be a dropshot, either CC or DTL, if you have conti grips

fuzz nation
12-03-2009, 08:25 AM
On the forehand, yes you are right. Although i don't really understand the mechanics of performing an aggressive slice shot (either wing) when the ball has to go up over the net first. If anything i can only ever see it being a kind of neutral shot - but I appreciate..practice makes perfect, and I probably don't practice these shots enough. Instinct would be to go with the whippy forehand but its not winning me matches.

The thing with the slice in that situation is that it can be guided toward a corner as the hitter follows it to net. This can often be the more dependable option compared with a topspin shot - remember that you're hitting that short, slow, low ball over an effectively higher net and into a shorter court than with a regular rally ball from your baseline. True, that slice isn't going to be too aggressive, since the incoming ball is low, but a player that's comfortable with hitting a slice will be able to place it rather well almost all the time. Tuck it just a bit inside the baseline and life is good. The upside to that slice is that it will typically land and skid lower than a topspin flick that can jump up into an opponent's wheelhouse. Even if you don't go to net, the slice might limit an opponent to a more neutral reply.

The whippy forehand can't carry too much pace (higher net, shorter court), but if you can place it where it will make an opponent move several steps laterally, that's definitely a good thing. If you recognize that short ball early enough and can move to the spot where it will bounce in time, you might get better control over a topspin reply if you can catch it on the rise.

LeeD
12-03-2009, 08:34 AM
FuzzNation pointed out, and I'll STRESS AGAIN....
You are hitting a ball well inside your baseline, sometimes close to the service line. Your opponent has less time to react, than if you hit from the baseline.
When you volley, most balls are moving maybe 45mph. You can put away volleys because you are close to the net! Same with slice approach's. They work if you're close to the net, don't work if you're behind the baseline!
"SHORT BALL PUTAWAY"

corno
12-03-2009, 09:25 AM
ok thanks - good points.

The slice back to center of baseline seem like quite a good play, cutting down the angles. I tend to play under floodlights though and do get bored tracking overheads into the night sky and waiting for the comet to come back to earth.
When reading these posts i begin to think that it's probably as much a lack of patience on my part as choosing the right shot. I guess the 2 are interlinked. Remaining aggressive and patient is difficult. For me anyway..

JediMindTrick
12-03-2009, 09:40 AM
Federer is hitting short slices with great success against the best players in the world, so good luck!

GuyClinch
12-03-2009, 09:57 AM
I think almost all amateur players (4.0 and below) struggle with this kind of ball. The two options are..

1) Hit an attacking topspin ball down the line. You need a very aggressive topspin with this shot though to make sure it clears the net. Its not that easy to hit..

2)Hit slice approaches and cover the net. This is not really fun either because your likely to get lobbed back and it puts pressure on your net skills (which the opponent might have wanted to do in the first place).

Either way your opponent has succeeded in taking you out of your game which is often built on deep topspin rally balls.. But if you want to win you have to learn to do something with the short ball.

I think its what seperates 3.5 from 4.0 players - and really what makes advanced players advanced. Hit with someone 5.0 or better and they simply DESTROY those balls.

The ability to deal with weaker balls effectively is something you need to practice. People that complain about "pushers" are just people that can't deal with these shots.

I'd drill with your coach on these situations. Have him hit you a ton of short weak slices or dinks and practice trying to win points from that situation.

Pete

Steady Eddy
12-03-2009, 11:37 AM
If you're that close to the net, (the service line), why not try a drop shot? Many players who are good at moving left or right, stink at moving up for short ball. You might find that a ball that barely goes over the net from up there they don't get to until it's on its second bounce.

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-03-2009, 11:46 AM
Topspin the bejesus out of the ball to the corner.

Steady Eddy
12-03-2009, 11:50 AM
Topspin the bejesus out of the ball to the corner.Hard to topspin a ball with such a low bounce. At least it is for me.

rk_sports
12-03-2009, 01:35 PM
...
Hit with a more violent, but more compact swing.

I'm learning to deal with this too.. bascially to finish off what on all accounts is a easy ball in mid court there to be put away... but tennis is humbling to those below 4 level (or thereabouts) ;)
From what I see a friend who is in the way higher level finish off some of my defensive gets .. I didnt realize what he was doing well.. its what LeeD pointed.. my kryptonite has been taking a huge cut and either making or not making the shot (not making that shot puts me way down :oops:) .. the key I take is that you cannot be lazy on that shot ..

Bud
12-03-2009, 06:51 PM
I think almost all amateur players (4.0 and below) struggle with this kind of ball. The two options are..

1) Hit an attacking topspin ball down the line. You need a very aggressive topspin with this shot though to make sure it clears the net. Its not that easy to hit..

2)Hit slice approaches and cover the net. This is not really fun either because your likely to get lobbed back and it puts pressure on your net skills (which the opponent might have wanted to do in the first place).

Either way your opponent has succeeded in taking you out of your game which is often built on deep topspin rally balls.. But if you want to win you have to learn to do something with the short ball.

I think its what seperates 3.5 from 4.0 players - and really what makes advanced players advanced. Hit with someone 5.0 or better and they simply DESTROY those balls.

The ability to deal with weaker balls effectively is something you need to practice. People that complain about "pushers" are just people that can't deal with these shots.

I'd drill with your coach on these situations. Have him hit you a ton of short weak slices or dinks and practice trying to win points from that situation.

Pete

This is a great point.

Today, I played an opponent I play on a weekly basis. He's an older gentleman and loves to slice both his FH and BH. On our normal surface, it's not a problem but today we were on the stadium court... which was re-done recently and is now very rough and very slow. His low, short slices simply died on court contact. I couldn't even get close to them! Talk about frustrating.

I never lose a set to this guy but lost the first set 6-3... simply because the surface suited his game much more than mine (or at least the game I normally play).

So, I made the following adjustments at the beginning of set #2:

1. No more flat bomb serves since the surface pretty much rendered them useless. I heavily sliced 90% of my serves and took pace off which caused him to whiff 1-2 serves per service game. The other 10% were kickers. Rough, slow surfaces favor spinnier type serves... as the surface grabs the ball much more effectively.

2. I started hitting all slice BH's... no more TS unless I was playing defense and needed to place a shot deep.

3. I took some pace off my FH to start moving him all around the court and to cut down on UE's. I had him moving back to front and side to side. Even with that, he still got a bunch of those short flat slice shots over the net for winners.

It worked like a charm as I took the next two sets 6-2, 6-3. He got frustrated, thinking his game had gone down the crapper when in fact I started playing completely differently in order to deal with the conditions and the way in which they favored his normal game. Truthfully, however I didn't really enjoy the match because I felt like I wasn't able to play 'my game'. It was more like survival. If I played regularly on clay, I may have felt a bit differently. This was definitely winning ugly.

So, I guess the point is... you must make whatever adjustments are necessary to counter different styles of play or different conditions you encounter on court. If you recognize you have issues with a certain shot try and practice it with a coach or hitting partner... or try and set up more play with the offending opponent.

user92626
12-03-2009, 07:12 PM
short, low bouncing ball is also tough for me. I have not yet figured the mechanic of hitting it fast-paced and heavily topspun. So far I just scale down power and rely on placement. :)

Frank Silbermann
12-03-2009, 07:16 PM
Is the opponent fast? If not, a short, dinky, modestly topped short cross-court could put it beyond his reach. Of course, you need good control for that shot.

Can the ball be taken with a forehand? If so, consider a _side-spin_ down-the-line approach shot. Mix this with the above, and even better.

In old-school tennis, the short slice was what you used to defeat someone who had no net game. You could not hit a winner, you could not push it and make it back to the baseline in time -- so you _had_ to hit an approach shot and rush the net. If you had a good net game, this shot is what you _wanted_ to receive -- it's what your rally shots were trying to elicit from your opponent so you could get to the "kill-zone" at the net. But if you had no net game, this was how your opponent would punish you for it.

jrod
12-04-2009, 03:19 AM
After reading all the posts and offering an opinion on tactics to deal with this type of shot, it's quite clear I need to exercise this shot more often, particularly with topspin baseliners. I have used this with great success against one opponent who is a lefty with SW grip. In fact I'm playing him today at noon so time to dust off shorty skidster.

Now, let's ask the question from the perspective of the person hitting the short skidder. When you exercise this kind of shot against an opponent, what is the best position to recover to?

1. Short slice in the middle of the court?
2. Short slice down the line?
3. Short slice crosscourt?

I know what I'd do in cases 1 and 2, but my tactics for #3 are questionable. I'm interested in what you guys think for all three situations?

papa
12-04-2009, 04:07 AM
[QUOTE=jrod;4168447]Re-read his post. He specifically refers to it as a short put-away shot. In addition, in the body of the post he says:

Your right. However, I would not necessarily feel that all shots landing around the service line are put-away balls anyway (and I'm not saying you think so either). Most inside the serviceline would be at least considered approach shots to some extent anyway but a ball landing, as described by the poster, say a little behind the serviceline, might/probably would present difficulties as mentioned by many of the posters. Actually, all of these shots can be tricky.

Most slice drives don't penetrate the court that much and you'll find, even with watching the pros, that these shot often land just a couple of feet from the serviceline.

Its funny how you can read something, think you know what it says only to find out after re-reading that you had it wrong.

Thanks for pointing out my error.

origmarm
12-04-2009, 04:59 AM
In these situations I do one of 5 things:
- Slice back low to the weaker side deep and take position at net
- Slice back short at a sharp angle and take appropriate position at net (i.e. follow angle)
- Drop shot and follow to net to cover
- Heavy topspin low pace ball at a strong angle crosscourt and take appropriate position at net (i.e. follow angle)
- Low percentage when I'm leading well in a game or am feeling hot is the flattened out drive with the forehand. I probably make 40% of these but when I do I love it.

In all cases you are effectively going to have to approach the net in my opinion to be effective. I view this as a good setup shot to get to net and end the point.

It's a shot I don't particularly like to play but it's a shot you encounter relatively often at club level I find, especially against the older players. It can be very effective on the right surface.

salsainglesa
12-04-2009, 08:53 AM
well... you can practice this shot easily and completely alone, feeeding yourself some low balls at service line depth, so you develop awareness of how high and hard you must hit the ball for it to be offensive, also you will get to know how to direct an almost static ball wich is useful for balls that have little pace.

when you are further into the court you can hit the ball at a lower height since you have the target closer to you... develop confidence and feel...
you can use this as your laboratory and see what happens if you hit the ball from underneath or from above, with a steep angle or through the ball in a WW path or a more classic FH...

also, variate your stance, in a closed stance it might be easier to hit to your opponents bh corner, if he is a righty, from a semiopen, you will have an easier time hiting crosscourt...
and measure the distance you haveto be standing to the ball, because when you are running forward you can get too close to the ball... get away! as far as its confortable to hit the ball.

develop disguise, since it will be almost unreadable... what i do, is i almost always stand closed (feet perpendicular to the net) as if i am going to hit an inside out forehand, and from this position its easy to rotate in a subtle manner to hit crosscourt...

alos practice from3 different places in the court

the ad side, the center and the deuce side... if you practice in unusual angles, then the regular ones will be a piece of cake.

corno
12-04-2009, 09:00 AM
thanks - thats a good point about being able to practice by yourself, since dropping the ball yourself is close to what happens to the mid court sitter/slice/stopper hit by the opponent.

LeeD
12-04-2009, 03:30 PM
Remember, when you hit hard topspin off the low, short ball, hit the OUTSIDE of the ball to impart some sidespin along with your top! That ball might be too low for pure topspin, but imparting the outside spin allows you to take a full swing.

papa
12-05-2009, 06:24 AM
Remember, when you hit hard topspin off the low, short ball, hit the OUTSIDE of the ball to impart some sidespin along with your top! That ball might be too low for pure topspin, but imparting the outside spin allows you to take a full swing.

You know Lee, although I can be fooled but don't think so in your case, I think you've been around this sport for quite a while and maybe played at a fairly good level. Your observation/comments are timely, accurate, "maybe" a little out of date, well intentioned and so forth.

However, I think "some" of your material is quite advanced for the average Joe that might be reading these posts and "could" be misleading. Hitting a low ball hard with top and sidespin might be within your skill set, or good advice to the advanced player, I think some could be easily sent in the wrong direction. Your good at what you do so maybe a little bit more of an explanation is required at times.

LeeD
12-05-2009, 07:02 AM
Hmmm.... don't know what to make of that...
I did say first choice was a conti approach DTL deep into the corner.
Second choice was conti approach deep into weaker side of opponent.
3rd choice is hard topside going for a winner into open court,
Then the drop and sharp shortangle CC's with slice for the first and top for the second.
Seems fairly straightforward, and most 3.5's have these shots in my neighborhood.

corno
12-07-2009, 04:53 AM
well, i found it useful. I can totally see what you are saying about side spin, i can hit this shot (with about a 50/50 success rate) and I can picture in my mind Nadal et al hitting it etc.

In addition, in the orignial post (which looking back i probably didn't describe that well) was that the mid court "put away" for want of a better expression, messes with my forehand through the course of a match if I'm hitting these all the time - as it is such a short compact aggressive swing/wrist whip. If I play a lot of these type matches, then go back to "normal" hitting at the back of the court with people who actually hit to the back of the court, it's sort of "whoa! where did my forehand go!" type scenario - almost like two entirely different strokes.

Anyway, thanks, all good advice. I'm going to try practicing this particular stroke more often.

origmarm
12-07-2009, 05:04 AM
Hmmm.... don't know what to make of that...
I did say first choice was a conti approach DTL deep into the corner.
Second choice was conti approach deep into weaker side of opponent.
3rd choice is hard topside going for a winner into open court,
Then the drop and sharp shortangle CC's with slice for the first and top for the second.
Seems fairly straightforward, and most 3.5's have these shots in my neighborhood.

I can see what papa means though, for me the short topspin angle and the drive option are lower percentage. I probably make the drive about 50% of the time and the cross court top/sidespin ball about 70% of the time and I've been playing since I was 4yrs old :)

I would suggest for a player that doesn't feel competent with those shots to stick to the slices at least initially on that ball. I see a lot of players that feel the need to topspin drive everything.

Still I reckon it's worth the attempt sometimes as you can't get better unless you try.

LeeD
12-07-2009, 07:04 AM
Actually, playing 3rd option in DOUBLES lately, pretty guaranteed, even hit within 3' of the baseline, our team will lose that point. Lots of low dipping options at my bad doubles levels, and most can hit deep lobs to nullify a topspin approach that basically bounces and behaves like a normal topspin groundie.
Key is to mix up your spins, pace, and placements.

W Cats
12-07-2009, 12:24 PM
After reading all the posts and offering an opinion on tactics to deal with this type of shot, it's quite clear I need to exercise this shot more often, particularly with topspin baseliners. I have used this with great success against one opponent who is a lefty with SW grip. In fact I'm playing him today at noon so time to dust off shorty skidster.

Now, let's ask the question from the perspective of the person hitting the short skidder. When you exercise this kind of shot against an opponent, what is the best position to recover to?

1. Short slice in the middle of the court?
2. Short slice down the line?
3. Short slice crosscourt?

I know what I'd do in cases 1 and 2, but my tactics for #3 are questionable. I'm interested in what you guys think for all three situations?

In general I would approach following the ball. Sometimes if I know the players tendancies I will leave that side of the court open a little more to make it more inviting and anticipate for that shot.

defrule
12-07-2009, 01:12 PM
I try to whip it to the sideline.

papa
12-08-2009, 01:39 PM
I think almost all amateur players (4.0 and below) struggle with this kind of ball.

Pete

I'm sure that this was probably a typo but just to clear matter up players under 5.5, maybe even 6.0, would be considered amateurs unless they are teaching pros or maybe "former pro players". College Div 1 players are generally in the 5.0 - 5.5 category while Div 2 players are generally 4.5 - 5.0 --- of course there are exceptions in Div 2 as well with all sports. Some Div 3 players make it into the pro ranks but they are rare.

Cup8489
12-09-2009, 06:23 AM
LeeD- The reason I don't like this option as much (at least for my game) is because it is low percentage, and the ball sits up more than when you hit a slice, making you more vulnerable to being passed. I agree it's a great shot....when you hit it perfectly.

it works fairly well if you can get the ball back deep. this is my response more often than not, because opponents try that short slice with their backhands, and being a lefty, it's right where i want it. i tend to whip it crosscourt, and follow it to the net. i usually only face the shot against people with weaker backhands, and approaching the net really cuts their options. I'm becoming an excellent volleyer, so i can hang around the service line and still hit winning volleys, but prevent lobs.

but the aggressive slice approach shot is equally effective, though perhaps not quite as flashy.

but if it works, it works!

GuyClinch
12-09-2009, 12:45 PM
I'm sure that this was probably a typo but just to clear matter up players under 5.5, maybe even 6.0, would be considered amateurs unless they are teaching pros or maybe "former pro players". College Div 1 players are generally in the 5.0 - 5.5 category while Div 2 players are generally 4.5 - 5.0 --- of course there are exceptions in Div 2 as well with all sports. Some Div 3 players make it into the pro ranks but they are rare.

Yeah I didn't phrase it right. I just meant 4.0 and lower players (who are of course amateurs) struggle with these kind of balls..

Still I like going for WW topspin shots off these balls. I feel its the best kind of ball to work in that shot in your game if like me you have learned an old school over the shoulder forehand..

The slice shot is reliable but for me I can't hit a real effective one. My tennis theory is that with limited practice time you have to pick a shot and stick it out through good and bad till you at least get the hang of it.. I have cut out alot of slice shots from my game for this reason and never hit slice forehands..

Pete