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precision2b
12-15-2009, 01:30 PM
There are a lot of good tennis players that use this forum and I would like to pick some of the tennis brains here on there winning strategies. How you size up your opponent/opponents during warm, constructing a point and closing the set/match out. No doubt there will be a lot that do the same but who knows we my pick up something that will help…

Tennisman912
12-15-2009, 01:37 PM
Of course we are paying attention to how they hit. Some things I am thinking about include: how someone moves their feet at balls right at them, do they have any glaring weaknesses, are they lazy with the feet, how do they volley, can they hit an overhead and so on. You can make some judgments about their technique, but that doesn’t tell you anything about how they PLAY if that makes sense. Because pretty strokes does not necessarily equate to winning matches.

But remember, this is just preliminary info that we are noticing. Why? Because up until 4.5-5.0, how someone warms up could be very different to how they play in a match, when you are not hitting the ball right too them. They may serve really hard warming up, then spin everything in and so on. So you can’t gleam as much useful info from a warm up as you may believe unless they have glaring weaknesses.

Good tennis

TM

lancernrg
12-15-2009, 01:56 PM
There are a lot of good tennis players that use this forum and I would like to pick some of the tennis brains here on there winning strategies. How you size up your opponent/opponents during warm, constructing a point and closing the set/match out. No doubt there will be a lot that do the same but who knows we my pick up something that will help…

1. Hit Hard.
2. See Above.
3. When all else fails, resort to option 1.

supertrex
12-15-2009, 02:01 PM
Of course we are paying attention to how they hit. Some things I am thinking about include: how someone moves their feet at balls right at them, do they have any glaring weaknesses, are they lazy with the feet, how do they volley, can they hit an overhead and so on. You can make some judgments about their technique, but that doesn’t tell you anything about how they PLAY if that makes sense. Because pretty strokes does not necessarily equate to winning matches.

But remember, this is just preliminary info that we are noticing. Why? Because up until 4.5-5.0, how someone warms up could be very different to how they play in a match, when you are not hitting the ball right too them. They may serve really hard warming up, then spin everything in and so on. So you can’t gleam as much useful info from a warm up as you may believe unless they have glaring weaknesses.

Good tennis

TM

This is very true, sometimes you see peeps that is really good with rally but mentally they will break down in game.

Some are very bad in rally they wont even let u hit the ball coz ur out there picking it up and pointless warm ups... and they can still beat u.. ( 3.5 -4 level)

Then Ive experience a player when I was in Japan last year he is a British National just having a vacation also like me. anyways we warmd up good rally. good give and take. I am messing up on rally mostly I amde him pick some balls up whiich I feel guilty off. but he still humble and didnt give any winners out of our rally. he just send them back right to me..


Then We played...I got pwned lol 0-6 1-6 He hits clean forehand and 1BH all corners all day. Giving him my lob but even at the baseline deep lob he wil just smash it like crazy. After the game he gave me some pointers bla bla... but nice to see good players rally for warm up.

Some players are selfish and will hit winners on warm up. always.

USERNAME
12-15-2009, 02:38 PM
During the warm up do they hit fairly hard or control the ball? Do they hit with alot/a little spin? Do they come in and hit more then a few volleys and overheads? Do they practice slice on both wings? Do they put away easy short balls in warm up? Answering those Q's will give me a good idea of what they will do during most points.
Now while their warming up serves watch real carefully for any tells, their eyes looking at the spot they serve to, slight changes in toss or motion, different set up of the feet and/or body. Finding these will greatly help in return games.
As for setting up points, this varies greatly from player to player. For me I like to dictate play with my fh, moving my opponent around to get an easy target for a put away. I dont like playing defensive tennis so any chance I get to switch to offense and hit a big shot I take.

papa
12-15-2009, 02:54 PM
Well, a warm up should be a "warm-up" as compared to a practice or testing exercise. Can you/should you evaluate your opponent, absolutely but your "duty" is to warm them up. Too many times players get a little confused here and either won't return shots or try to prove just how wonderful they are - when I run up against these types, I let them know - this isn't a practice session nor is it feeding session where they start returning my serves or making me run for every ball -- thats Bush League/Little League stuff. Sorry if I've stepped on your toes but this isn't the time to strut yourself - cool it and stick to warming up your opponent. If you see something that looks questionable, test it out during the match, not in warm-ups.

I've warmed-up against players who either couldn't/wouldn't give you the courtesy of even giving you a few overheads or volley shots. Again, this is purely Bush League stuff but some seem to think its ok - amazing.

Ripper014
12-15-2009, 02:58 PM
There are a lot of good tennis players that use this forum and I would like to pick some of the tennis brains here on there winning strategies. How you size up your opponent/opponents during warm, constructing a point and closing the set/match out. No doubt there will be a lot that do the same but who knows we my pick up something that will help…

I usually don't put too much stock in the warmup, alot of people use that for exactly that... warming up.

I always like to play tennis on my terms... and will start out every match that way. I will dictate play until it becomes clear that it will not be an effective strategy. I always like to say time is an important part of tennis and taking it away from your opponent is huge. So I always advocate being aware when your opponent is going to give up a weak return and jumping all over it. I learned this from watching Connors 30 years ago and still use it today... as soon as I know I have hit a good shot that will force a weak return I move up inside the baseline, if I get a floater I will take it out of the air and put it deep into a corner and take control of the net usually you get an easy volley winner or an overhead putaway. With todays game and equipment it is higher risk since you can do more with a ball when you ae off balance and in a defensive position, but I still feel the percentages are on my side.

Anymore strategies would require more details on your opponent.

Ripper014
12-15-2009, 03:00 PM
Well, a warm up should be a "warm-up" as compared to a practice or testing exercise. Can you/should you evaluate your opponent, absolutely but your "duty" is to warm them up. Too many times players get a little confused here and either won't return shots or try to prove just how wonderful they are - when I run up against these types, I let them know - this isn't a practice session nor is it feeding session where they start returning my serves or making me run for every ball -- thats Bush League/Little League stuff. Sorry if I've stepped on your toes but this isn't the time to strut yourself - cool it and stick to warming up your opponent. If you see something that looks questionable, test it out during the match, not in warm-ups.

I've warmed-up against players who either couldn't/wouldn't give you the courtesy of even giving you a few overheads or volley shots. Again, this is purely Bush League stuff but some seem to think its ok - amazing.



I used to see this all the time too... I would usually just say that I was ready... lets play. I hated warming up anyway... for me it was just about getting rid of any gitters that I might have. I mean lets face it... you are not going to get any better in warmup.

Bungalo Bill
12-15-2009, 03:17 PM
There are a lot of good tennis players that use this forum and I would like to pick some of the tennis brains here on there winning strategies. How you size up your opponent/opponents during warm, constructing a point and closing the set/match out. No doubt there will be a lot that do the same but who knows we my pick up something that will help…

You can also do a search on matchup strategies.

CallOfBooty
12-15-2009, 05:32 PM
Here is my number one winning strategy:

1. Hit everything cross court
2. Hit a hard approach shot on short balls that are a foot above the net
3. Hit a deep slice approach shot on short balls that are around net level
4. Drop shot a really short ball that is too low to slice

Obviously you will have to hit well, serve well, and return well. If you do, and follow the guidelines above, it's a winning strategy, I guarantee it.

maverick66
12-15-2009, 05:34 PM
1. Hit Hard.
2. See Above.
3. When all else fails, resort to option 1.

Are you James Blake?

LeeD
12-15-2009, 05:39 PM
Hit right into gazelles.
Make the elephants change direction.
Rhinos, you avoid, by sharp angled CC's and drops, followed by preplanned lobs over the backhand side.
Quick reacting guys you hit soft and hit, changing spin and depth.
Plodders and pushers you hit hard and angled.
Do not drop gazelles too often, but only to keep them from playing too far back.
Do not try to outhit rhinos, they're just plain stronger.
Giraffes you slice to their feet.
Wolverines you go wide and use the whole court.
If they're quicker, stronger, more consistent, and defy all your weapons, go up to net and shake their hand.

fruitytennis1
12-15-2009, 06:17 PM
[QUOTE=LeeD;4199025]Hit right into gazelles.
Make the elephants change direction.
Rhinos, you avoid, by sharp angled CC's and drops, followed by preplanned lobs over the backhand side.
Quick reacting guys you hit soft and hit, changing spin and depth.
Plodders and pushers you hit hard and angled.
Do not drop gazelles too often, but only to keep them from playing too far back.
Do not try to outhit rhinos, they're just plain stronger.
Giraffes you slice to their feet.
Wolverines you go wide and use the whole court.
If they're quicker, stronger, more consistent, and defy all your weapons, go up to net and shake their hand.[/QUOTE

Nice way to put it!!!

xFullCourtTenniSx
12-15-2009, 06:31 PM
This is very true, sometimes you see peeps that is really good with rally but mentally they will break down in game.

Some are very bad in rally they wont even let u hit the ball coz ur out there picking it up and pointless warm ups... and they can still beat u.. ( 3.5 -4 level)

Then Ive experience a player when I was in Japan last year he is a British National just having a vacation also like me. anyways we warmd up good rally. good give and take. I am messing up on rally mostly I amde him pick some balls up whiich I feel guilty off. but he still humble and didnt give any winners out of our rally. he just send them back right to me..


Then We played...I got pwned lol 0-6 1-6 He hits clean forehand and 1BH all corners all day. Giving him my lob but even at the baseline deep lob he wil just smash it like crazy. After the game he gave me some pointers bla bla... but nice to see good players rally for warm up.

Some players are selfish and will hit winners on warm up. always.

Geez. I hate these kinds of guys. It's like, who the **** taught you to play tennis? Did you learn ANYTHING about how to 'WARM UP"?

I've warmed-up against players who either couldn't/wouldn't give you the courtesy of even giving you a few overheads or volley shots. Again, this is purely Bush League stuff but some seem to think its ok - amazing.

Damn... And I thought the guys who went for corners were bad... And yeah... They're pretty immature.

I used to see this all the time too... I would usually just say that I was ready... lets play. I hated warming up anyway... for me it was just about getting rid of any gitters that I might have. I mean lets face it... you are not going to get any better in warmup.

Yeah... This is what I'm going to do from now on. Why bother letting THEM practice when they don't give you the same courtesy at getting a single shot?!

I don't hate warming up, but you're right that you won't get better in a warm up. You're supposed to warm up beforehand anyway.

Are you James Blake?

I think #3 for Mr. Blake would be "hit HARDER".

If they're quicker, stronger, more consistent, and defy all your weapons, go up to net and shake their hand.

Best strategy ever!

Anyways, there are a bunch of strategies and tactics. So many in fact, that it's pointless to try and list them all.

But personal favorites are serving wide and ripping a forehand behind them and serving wide and volleying into the open court.

Ripper014
12-15-2009, 09:33 PM
Hit right into gazelles.
Make the elephants change direction.
Rhinos, you avoid, by sharp angled CC's and drops, followed by preplanned lobs over the backhand side.
Quick reacting guys you hit soft and hit, changing spin and depth.
Plodders and pushers you hit hard and angled.
Do not drop gazelles too often, but only to keep them from playing too far back.
Do not try to outhit rhinos, they're just plain stronger.
Giraffes you slice to their feet.
Wolverines you go wide and use the whole court.
If they're quicker, stronger, more consistent, and defy all your weapons, go up to net and shake their hand.



I think if the OP could do all these things he would not need to be asking on the forum. Overall I find it interesting when people ask for help since the response is for them to do something that may be beyond their skill level.

precision2b
12-16-2009, 08:11 AM
During the warm up do they hit fairly hard or control the ball? Do they hit with alot/a little spin? Do they come in and hit more then a few volleys and overheads? Do they practice slice on both wings? Do they put away easy short balls in warm up? Answering those Q's will give me a good idea of what they will do during most points.
Now while their warming up serves watch real carefully for any tells, their eyes looking at the spot they serve to, slight changes in toss or motion, different set up of the feet and/or body. Finding these will greatly help in return games.
As for setting up points, this varies greatly from player to player. For me I like to dictate play with my fh, moving my opponent around to get an easy target for a put away. I dont like playing defensive tennis so any chance I get to switch to offense and hit a big shot I take.

I know warm ups can't tell you everything about the player but it may give you a starting point...


I think if the OP could do all these things he would not need to be asking on the forum. Overall I find it interesting when people ask for help since the response is for them to do something that may be beyond their skill level.

Actually I wasn’t asking for help. I think it makes for good reading. I was hoping some would post actual match’s that they have had and how they may have won or lost because of how they or there opponent put a winning strategy together…

LeeD
12-16-2009, 08:53 AM
Strategy has nothing to do with your actual skill level. Even if you're 3.0, you can figure out what it takes to get your opponent out of his comfort zone.
Sure, a 3.0 won't beat 4.5's until they get better or the 4.5 gets worst, but some smart 3.0's can make a game of it, while other braindead 3.0's just get blasted off the court.
At any level, a smart, quickthinking player can raise his tennis level slightly higher than a dumb, plodding, dull braindead player.

USERNAME
12-16-2009, 10:17 AM
I know warm ups can't tell you everything about the player but it may give you a starting point...


You'd be shocked at how much you can learn during a short warm up if you really pay attention. Im not saying build a strategy just off that, but work the strategy you have around what you saw.

precision2b
12-16-2009, 11:57 AM
You'd be shocked at how much you can learn during a short warm up if you really pay attention. Im not saying build a strategy just off that, but work the strategy you have around what you saw.

I agree with you. Some of the other posters don't think so...

GuyClinch
12-17-2009, 05:41 AM
Here is my number one winning strategy:

1. Hit everything cross court
2. Hit a hard approach shot on short balls that are a foot above the net
3. Hit a deep slice approach shot on short balls that are around net level
4. Drop shot a really short ball that is too low to slice

Obviously you will have to hit well, serve well, and return well. If you do, and follow the guidelines above, it's a winning strategy, I guarantee it.

I dig your strategy - sounds excellent. I am a big believer that every player should have an "A" game like this that you use regardless of your opponent. The probing for the weakness kind of thinking gets all the love on forums because its more glamorous to some. But I think amateur tennis is mostly about execution. I don't think most of the time you need a strategy any more complicated then this.

Pete

papa
12-17-2009, 04:22 PM
Hit right into gazelles.
Make the elephants change direction.
Rhinos, you avoid, by sharp angled CC's and drops, followed by preplanned lobs over the backhand side.
Quick reacting guys you hit soft and hit, changing spin and depth.
Plodders and pushers you hit hard and angled.
Do not drop gazelles too often, but only to keep them from playing too far back.
Do not try to outhit rhinos, they're just plain stronger.
Giraffes you slice to their feet.
Wolverines you go wide and use the whole court.
If they're quicker, stronger, more consistent, and defy all your weapons, go up to net and shake their hand.

Starting to think you should be on stage - forget the courts, where there isn't any money or fame. Funny stuff.

LeeD
12-17-2009, 05:19 PM
"life IS, but a stage, and we are all just players on the stage of life".....
Or sumding like dat, care of one WillyShakespeare dude.....

Bagumbawalla
12-18-2009, 04:05 PM
You ask a good question. Unfortunately, it is not an easy one to answer with simple, pat, explainations.

Normally, the ability to "read" an opponent comes with playing a wide variety of players with a variety of styles. So, the very fact that you ask the question leads me to believe that you need to do a lot more work before the warm-up.

But, back to that, later. To look at your question from the opposite point of view; what would your opponent be noticing about your game that whould tip him off to weaknesses on your part? Are you less than at ease at the net? He might bring you to the net with short balls or drop shots.

Do you have difficulty with low skipping balls, topspin with tons of pace, balls with no pace, high loopy balls? Expect to see lots of them in the match.

Is your serve weak/short? Expect it to come blasting back just out of reach.

Is your forehand wild or your backhand suspect? Most of the balls will go there.

Do you lack consistancy and therefore try to make the points short? Look for balls that just keep coming back.

And so on... So, I am going to suggest that the best "strategy is to be completely prepared and confident before you step out on the court. That will come from practicing all the shots against different people until you can handle the paceless ball, the skipping slice, the half-volley, the deep lob, and so on.

Also, buy some books, check the library, bookstore, online and see what they have that explains-- first of all, basic percentage play and common combinations of shot that can be used against almost anyone. There are also sites that have video and explain basic tactics/strategies.

Of course, having someone tell you (for example) to hit a drop-shot against someone hanging behind the baseline- will do you no good if your drop-shot is too deep and sits up for an easy put-away. So, also practice hitting all the shots, not just the ones that are fun or easy for you- so when you need to hit that low-skidding ball or topspin lob, or fast-dipping topspin to the net-rusher's feet-- you know more than just what needs to be done, you know how to produce the shot in a pressure situation.

salsainglesa
12-20-2009, 10:36 AM
Well, i am of the idea that you have to develop a style and play toyour stenghts most of all.... Force your opponent to get in the positions you want him to be, and dominaete him.
So using warmups as warmups is thebest idea.
Whenever you get into the court, you should have an idea of what you want to do to win.
Serve is your best ally in this endevour, you dont have to hit many aces, you just need to put the rival off balance or in a situation to your advantage. If you are a stong server, serve 3to the t, 1 wide, 1 body... if you have many spin variations, serve to your strenght, lets a say a kicker to the backhand most of the time, and a slice to openhim up...
If you are good changing direction of the ball, serve mostly to take your rival outside the court on either side, and some to the center to keephim honest...
Once you have achieved awareness of what your service produces, then its easier to dominate your rival and see the patterns that emerge and are natural to certain play situations.
Always is a good idea to maximize your strenghts, think about attack,not about your rival weaknesses.
You can treat all of your strokes the same way... what can you produce with them....

If you are the better player, you will overwhelm him.
if he is better than you you will play your best and get you in the best possible position.

so what are your strenghts??

papa
02-06-2010, 05:30 AM
I used to see this all the time too... I would usually just say that I was ready... lets play. I hated warming up anyway... for me it was just about getting rid of any gitters that I might have. I mean lets face it... you are not going to get any better in warmup.

Yeah, I agree but must admit I like to take quite a few serves and several overheads before starting.

I like your approach in your other post - basic but it works a good percentage of the time.