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View Full Version : 12 yards soccer penalty kick is almost a sure goal.


Golden Retriever
12-16-2009, 06:05 AM
Just face the reality, if a professional goalie can't reach a ball much much bigger and much much slower than a tennis ball kicked from 12 yards away, a volleyer is just as much a sitting duck if not more trying to reach for a tennis ball struck from much less than 12 yards away. Even if you take the length of the racquet into consideration you are still against tremendous odds as a volleyer. The normal human brain just doesn't react that quick.

99.999999999999999% of the reactionary time of the world population is just not fast enough to be a volleyer, plain and simple.

Clay lover
12-16-2009, 06:11 AM
but 99.99999999999999% of the time the volleyer won't allow the ball to sit up like the ball on penalty spot for the opponent to choose a side to bludgeon.

jmverdugo
12-16-2009, 06:11 AM
you are making the assupmtion that the hitter is going to be hitting an still ball and that will have a lot of time ti do it. Part of being a good volleyer is setting up the situation so you do not have to be a gollie in a penalty kick.

Golden Retriever
12-16-2009, 06:21 AM
but 99.99999999999999% of the time the volleyer won't allow the ball to sit up like the ball on penalty spot for the opponent to choose a side to bludgeon.

You need to be really really really good to not let the ball sit up everytime. If you were that good, your last name was probably Edberg or MacEnroe, in other words, the other 0.00000000000000001%.

Loco4Tennis
12-16-2009, 06:28 AM
i was just thinking how much bigger the raket is from the goalie hands, making the ball size equaling the challenge in both sports,
would be hard to truly say which sport is easier or harder,
tennis: smaller ball & bigger raket/hands
soccer: bigger ball & smaller hands/raket
in both sports, the hand or the raket perform the same function, a punch or a block,,,
all in all both seem to be the same in difficulty for me, were it not for the LOBBBBBBBBBB :-)

jmverdugo
12-16-2009, 06:39 AM
You need to be really really really good to not let the ball sit up everytime. If you were that good, your last name was probably Edberg or MacEnroe, in other words, the other 0.00000000000000001%.

Not really, for sure you will not win every point and make every volley but that is not the idea, as long as make 6 out 10 you are alright.

LuckyR
12-16-2009, 07:27 AM
Just face the reality, if a professional goalie can't reach a ball much much bigger and much much slower than a tennis ball kicked from 12 yards away, a volleyer is just as much a sitting duck if not more trying to reach for a tennis ball struck from much less than 12 yards away. Even if you take the length of the racquet into consideration you are still against tremendous odds as a volleyer. The normal human brain just doesn't react that quick.

99.999999999999999% of the reactionary time of the world population is just not fast enough to be a volleyer, plain and simple.


So we are supposed to disbelieve our personal experience playing actual tennis because of a convoluted example using professional soccer keepers? Good luck selling that theory...

LeeD
12-16-2009, 07:49 AM
I like the fact you baseliner grinders believe only YOU have gotten the advantage of bigger rackets, better technique, and better athelete.
You don't think the volleyer also got better rackets, better techniques, and are also better atheletes than the past?
The only thing the volleyers didn't get is better spelling. :shock::shock:

GuyClinch
12-16-2009, 12:43 PM
OP are you like on a quest to convince us that no spin backcourt dinks are the ultimate tennis style? LMAO.

LightningZI
12-16-2009, 01:35 PM
I don't really see what your trying to prove other than volleying is not good?

Even then your logic is off.

Let's compare the fastest soccer shot to the fastest forehand.

Fastest Soccer Shot by: David Hirst -114 MPH
Fastest Forehand by: Gael Monfils - 118 MPH

Let's also take into consideration that a ball will get slower after leaving the foot and racquet. In tennis, You don't take the risk of using your barehands to put the ball away, The racquet is used, Not to mention how stable the frames are, Strings on the other hand are another thing, Strings may break with volleying shots like these but It'd be uncommon since no one can consistently hit 118 MPH Forehands for 3 sets. It'd be obvious that a faster shot would have more trouble being caught by the goalie as Most goalies deflect it if it's coming too fast and they are far away, or they catch. Catching overhead risks your arms for a faster shot and not to mention it may slip. With Tennis, the only risk you pose during the shot is, Framing the ball, Not hitting in the sweetspot (Not really that big of a risk really).

Oh but this is professional at the top speeds.

Now for the average+ player it's much different and Volleying is made simpler. Therefore in professional and average+ games, Volleying is not disadvantageous. We can't all play a long and continous baseline game.. It gets tedious and really wears you out. Someone has to come and volley otherwise there's really no difference from normal games, To win a point you rely on the other person's mistake. Not your higher knowledge of strategies or the sport.

xFullCourtTenniSx
12-16-2009, 01:52 PM
Just face the reality, if a professional goalie can't reach a ball much much bigger and much much slower than a tennis ball kicked from 12 yards away, a volleyer is just as much a sitting duck if not more trying to reach for a tennis ball struck from much less than 12 yards away. Even if you take the length of the racquet into consideration you are still against tremendous odds as a volleyer. The normal human brain just doesn't react that quick.

99.999999999999999% of the reactionary time of the world population is just not fast enough to be a volleyer, plain and simple.

At least Fedace doesn't force his stupidity on us and is merely reactive and responsive stupidity... You are really trying to climb the ladder on the annoying stupidity rankings aren't you?!

First, let's look at soccer. If LightningZI's statistics are correct, then the goalie has to deal with a 114 mph ball coming at the goal which can't even be fully covered with 5 men! In tennis, 3 men will comfortably cover the entire net. A goalie has less length to work with (albeit only by 2 feet) and has far more room to cover. The kicker doesn't even have to worry about hitting long because such a thing doesn't exist in soccer. And the kicker has essentially 6 spots to hit to - top left, bottom left, top right, bottom right, center, top center (if he guesses like a tennis player and cheats to one side early).

Next, tennis players only have to cover 3 directions: body, left, right. Sitting where you are, or even cheating to one side, you'll always have the body spot target covered, so you can cover 66% of the net with a single guess! Now if you guess right, you put the strings on the ball and you have a chance at a winner or just stay in the point. If you guess wrong, you weren't in the best position to win the point anyways.

Now, what are the chances of amateurs hitting balls even close to the max speeds of those pros? 0%. So the average should be roughly half those speeds. You should be able to cover 66% of the net relatively well when the ball is only coming at 59 mph as opposed to the 80+ the pros see.

Only low level players rely on their reaction time to get to the ball. Upper intermediates and advanced players can read their opponents or at the very least guess and pick a side in anticipation of what the opponent is likely to hit in such a situation. If you guess and pick a side, you're far less likely to get passed for a winner.

You'll often see pros sit up a volley and still come up to win the point. How do they do it? THEY GUESSED WHICH SIDE TO COVER AND BLOCKED THE BALL BACK! They guessed right, and they were in position to hit a solid defensive volley into the open court. And with the pace they're given, they can block it for a winner because at that point, it's a last shot gamble for both players.

Tennis players can anticipate/guess where the ball is going and get away with it whereas soccer players... Not so much... Unless their feet can block the ball extremely well and they're acrobats.

Blake0
12-16-2009, 06:40 PM
There are a couple things sort of off in your theory.
1.) In tennis, the amount of space you have to cover is/can be potentially less. (Unless they lob, but we're talking about volleys)
2.) You hit the approach shot hard or keep it low and place it well in a corner or jam them by hitting right at them so you get a weak reply, but in soccer, the goalie doesn't really have a chance to effect the shot that's being hit to them.
3.) When you approach you try to cover up as much court as possible and cut away angles.
4.) If they hit a set up ball, the volleyer guesses to one side and gives up the other, or they run or hide.:)
5.)A goalie might not be able to get the ball when it's hit at a corner of the goal, but if the goal was smaller to about the length of the net and the same height, i'm pretty sure the goalie would be able to get most of the balls, plus in tennis you have a racket and you jam them to a corner to limit their options even more.

Vermillion
12-16-2009, 07:03 PM
fastest shot in soccer is 114mph? Wow, that is pretty scary.

jmnk
12-16-2009, 07:35 PM
The OP forgot to mention a completely different geometry involved here. In soccer you just need to make the ball --cross-- the goal line within the goal posts, in tennis you need to make the ball --land-- inside the court. Draw it up, when you hit from behind the court end line, from around the center - you will see how much smaller your target actually is vs. penalty kick in soccer. Thus volleyer has much smaller area to cover.

Ken Honecker
12-16-2009, 11:36 PM
I might be wrong but I honestly can't recall ever getting hit by a player at their own baseline. Now there was the time I was talking trash and my partner hung me out to dry with the up player who smacked my glasses in half.

Golden Retriever
12-17-2009, 06:12 AM
5.)A goalie might not be able to get the ball when it's hit at a corner of the goal, but if the goal was smaller to about the length of the net and the same height, i'm pretty sure the goalie would be able to get most of the balls.

WHAT?WHAT?WHAT? The soccer goal is much much smaller in length than a tennis net. You even know what a soccer goal look like??????

Golden Retriever
12-17-2009, 06:16 AM
The kicker doesn't even have to worry about hitting long because such a thing doesn't exist in soccer.

WOW!! Just when I thought I had seen it all!!! There is no hitting long in soccer?????????????

jmverdugo
12-17-2009, 06:23 AM
WOW!! Just when I thought I had seen it all!!! There is no hitting long in soccer?????????????

No there is not hitting long in soccer as long as the ball goes inside the goal it doesn't matter where it lands. In the case of tennis the ball has to go up the net, within the sidelines and land inside the court before the baseline, get it? Any other shot is not a valid shot.

mucat
12-17-2009, 07:11 AM
The OP forgot to mention a completely different geometry involved here. In soccer you just need to make the ball --cross-- the goal line within the goal posts, in tennis you need to make the ball --land-- inside the court. Draw it up, when you hit from behind the court end line, from around the center - you will see how much smaller your target actually is vs. penalty kick in soccer. Thus volleyer has much smaller area to cover.

I agree. A soccer shot can go to either of the 4 corners full speed.
A tennis shot has to land inside the court, the higher you hit, the slower it has to be. Also, the more angle the more sideline you want to hit, the slower it has to be.

It is a huge different.

Djokovicfan4life
12-17-2009, 08:26 AM
Well, we've certainly got another winner going here. I didn't think anything could top the "topspin is the devil" thread. I stand corrected.

mucat
12-17-2009, 08:47 AM
Well, we've certainly got another winner going here. I didn't think anything could top the "topspin is the devil" thread. I stand corrected.

Topspin IS the devil. I hate those deep heavy topspin shots...make me look stupid on the court. Well, heavy slice can do that too...

HunterST
12-17-2009, 08:49 AM
The OP just needs to accept that he's made a thread with a terrible and erroneous analogy. It's okay, it happens to all of us. We can argue about geometry, target size, and the amount of space that has to be covered all day, but that fact of the matter is: Getting to the net in tennis is effective. Obviously you're going to get passed sometimes, but the fact that it is many times effective has been proven over hundreds of years.

T1000
12-17-2009, 08:52 AM
Just face the reality, if a professional goalie can't reach a ball much much bigger and much much slower than a tennis ball kicked from 12 yards away, a volleyer is just as much a sitting duck if not more trying to reach for a tennis ball struck from much less than 12 yards away. Even if you take the length of the racquet into consideration you are still against tremendous odds as a volleyer. The normal human brain just doesn't react that quick.

99.999999999999999% of the reactionary time of the world population is just not fast enough to be a volleyer, plain and simple.

Do you even play tennis? Or do you just watch it and think that one handers and volleyers suck at tennis?

p.s. they don't

Blake0
12-17-2009, 03:13 PM
WHAT?WHAT?WHAT? The soccer goal is much much smaller in length than a tennis net. You even know what a soccer goal look like??????

Guess you're right, my percpective of the soccer goal has always seemed bigger for some reason.

gameboy
12-17-2009, 03:31 PM
I think you got the geometry all wrong. Here is a diagram of the tennis court and soccer goal posts drawn to scale:

http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pXwc177kIDWUqw25-HiFtDZ0rAkuRjUGdgNKeym5URdKnPHZBF3lM6tnoRBw4Gb7U8M Pv0tpHY88Op4Qhydoj6g/Tennis.jpg

As you can see, the tennis player at the court has about 2 feet less to cover on either side. Add to that the tennis player has a 27in racquet in his hand, he can cover another 2 feet on both side on top of that, which means while the soccer goalie has to cover the entire 24 feet, the tennis player has to only cover about 16 feet.

It is significantly easier to cover the tennis court than to cover the goal posts.

darthpwner
12-17-2009, 05:48 PM
You need to be really really really good to not let the ball sit up everytime. If you were that good, your last name was probably Edberg or MacEnroe, in other words, the other 0.00000000000000001%.

You are forgetting about Pete!

Cindysphinx
12-17-2009, 07:46 PM
Don't forget that the volleyer has an advantage that the soccer goalie does not have.

The volleyer takes time away from his baseline opponent. This in my experience is a huge advantage. If I am at net, I only have to be half as good as you because my ball is coming at you in half the time.

At least, that's what I keep telling myself as I come a'chargin' in.

Cindy -- constantly surprised that in singles, pretty much any volley that is not directly back to the opponent will win the point

nfor304
12-17-2009, 07:54 PM
According to the OP, 1 handed backhands are inferior, topspin is redundant and volleying is for chumps.

Top 3 GOAT candidates: Federer, Laver and Sampras.

Logic fail.

mucat
12-17-2009, 08:14 PM
Guess you're right, my percpective of the soccer goal has always seemed bigger for some reason.

soccer goal: 24 ft

vs.

single court: 27 ft
racket: 2.25 ft

xFullCourtTenniSx
12-18-2009, 01:11 AM
WHAT?WHAT?WHAT? The soccer goal is much much smaller in length than a tennis net. You even know what a soccer goal look like??????

Do you even know your simple mathematics and geometry? Then there's angles and everything... Dear God... You are one of the most mother ****ing ******** ********s the boards has ever seen! Is there any shred of usable logic in that barren head of yours? And much much smaller? The difference is 3 feet... Not much longer than a tennis racket.

WOW!! Just when I thought I had seen it all!!! There is no hitting long in soccer?????????????

You really are dumb aren't you? THINK MAN THINK!

Seriously, anyone wanna start a petition to ban Golden Retriever from the boards for being a total dumb**** that doesn't even know how to play the game of tennis, and is now suspected of not even hitting the courts or watching the damned thing? I mean dear lord! What did your mother do while you were in there? Did she smoke, drink, and get high everyday?!

Clearly you didn't understand my statement, and I admit I cheated and didn't clarify 100% because 99.9999999999999999999999% of people would be able to understand the meaning of it even if I didn't clarify 100%. But I guess you're that 0.00000000000000000000000000001% that doesn't get it. Think my statement is bad? Look at the ones you've made. They're beyond stupid and are only supported by the most ******** people in the board (like Ultra2HolyGrail). My statement is correct and logical if you understand it's meaning. Yours... There's no way to clarify them in such a way to make them even remotely correct.

Please... Just leave the boards and never return with your stupidity. You'll be warmly welcomed back when you develop a brain and some sound logic.

moroni
12-18-2009, 03:25 AM
well if u are trying to make a point then good cuz u made one ..... YOU are stupid ..... cuz a good volleyer will not go up the net if he didnt set up well .... sure u canc come up with a passing shot / lop from a difficult position put eveyone knows that wont happen everytime ... and as long as u make 7/10 volleys on your serve .... 5/10 on your opponents serve you are fine .... IM a good volleyer I serve and volley sometimes and I it works against many players as long as you know when to go up the net ... you cant go volley on a 70 mph 2nd serve and expect to win the point .. sure u could but odds are against u ...

raiden031
12-18-2009, 03:46 AM
I think if we're talking about the baseliner hitting from the baseline, the volleyer will usually be able to deal with that.

I think the OP's point is more valid if we're talking about a baseline player ripping a big forehand from near the service line while the volleyer has closed in on the net. There are people who claim they can play the net and volley against an opposing shot from as close as the service line. I don't see how you can do this without just guessing where the ball will go.

Ken Honecker
12-18-2009, 04:48 AM
you cant go volley on a 70 mph 2nd serve and expect to win the point ..

What is this 2nd serve you speak of? LOL Bring the Heat!

Ken Honecker
12-18-2009, 04:55 AM
I think if we're talking about the baseliner hitting from the baseline, the volleyer will usually be able to deal with that.

I think the OP's point is more valid if we're talking about a baseline player ripping a big forehand from near the service line while the volleyer has closed in on the net. There are people who claim they can play the net and volley against an opposing shot from as close as the service line. I don't see how you can do this without just guessing where the ball will go.

From the title of 12 yards I figure the defender is standing 6 feet inside the base line with you standing 3 feet from the net. At that point your angles are much, much, better than his meaning that unless he lobs he has about twice the court to cover. Sure he can rip it by you but depending on the level that's an iffy thing. In fact I'd almost guess that the higher the level (talking rec here), the better the chances for a put away volley.

Golden Retriever
12-18-2009, 06:35 AM
Do you even know your simple mathematics and geometry? Then there's angles and everything... Dear God... You are one of the most mother ****ing ******** ********s the boards has ever seen! Is there any shred of usable logic in that barren head of yours? And much much smaller? The difference is 3 feet... Not much longer than a tennis racket.



You really are dumb aren't you? THINK MAN THINK!

Seriously, anyone wanna start a petition to ban Golden Retriever from the boards for being a total dumb**** that doesn't even know how to play the game of tennis, and is now suspected of not even hitting the courts or watching the damned thing? I mean dear lord! What did your mother do while you were in there? Did she smoke, drink, and get high everyday?!

Clearly you didn't understand my statement, and I admit I cheated and didn't clarify 100% because 99.9999999999999999999999% of people would be able to understand the meaning of it even if I didn't clarify 100%. But I guess you're that 0.00000000000000000000000000001% that doesn't get it. Think my statement is bad? Look at the ones you've made. They're beyond stupid and are only supported by the most ******** people in the board (like Ultra2HolyGrail). My statement is correct and logical if you understand it's meaning. Yours... There's no way to clarify them in such a way to make them even remotely correct.

Please... Just leave the boards and never return with your stupidity. You'll be warmly welcomed back when you develop a brain and some sound logic.

If I could see you face to face, you wouldn't have a face. But since I can't, FXXX YO MADXX!! Thats all I have to say.

If you don't fXXking agree with me thats fXXking fine. I won't loose a second of sleep over it.

FD3S
12-18-2009, 08:49 PM
According to the OP, 1 handed backhands are inferior, topspin is redundant and volleying is for chumps.

Top 3 GOAT candidates: Federer, Laver and Sampras.

Logic fail.

Let's just count our blessings that he didn't somehow work China into his argument.

xFullCourtTenniSx
12-18-2009, 11:16 PM
If you don't fXXking agree with me thats fXXking fine. I won't loose a second of sleep over it.

Cause you can't even begin to contemplate how ****ing stupid you are. Being void of intelligence and thought, you're essentially the walking dead. Nothing works in that head of yours. If you're dumb, you're always practically sleeping because no matter what, eyes open or not, the lights are off upstairs.

nfor304
12-18-2009, 11:33 PM
Its not a fair comparison to begin with. Many goals are missed from inside the penalty box in football. Thats because the ball is always moving, and the goal keeper positions himself where the ball is likely to go judging by the balls position and the striker's position.

Just like any decent volleyer in tennis.