PDA

View Full Version : Give me some tips on handling modern topspin


sureshs
12-16-2009, 12:15 PM
Last night, I was asked to hit and play points against a 10 year old boy who plays modern tennis. His dad is a coach, but not a modern one. I encounter this problem whenever I play juniors after having played old guys for weeks. It is the topspin to my forehand.

After 5 minutes, I get the timing right on my 1 handed backhand and neutralize or counter topspin the ball (I don't want to slice). On the forehand, which should be easier, I have problems with the ball flight and spin. I am able to track the ball and find it, but my racquet contact is not satisfactory. Though the ball goes across, it does not have the depth I want and I feel that my racquet has the wrong angle at impact and I am being caught half-prepared every time. I also feel blinded during the last moments by the trajectory of the ball.

It gets better with time, but at the next session, the problems come back.

obnoxious2
12-16-2009, 12:19 PM
The problem is that with topspin, the ball seems like it picks up pace after hitting the ground. Are you making sure your prepping properly and have your racquet back already? I find myself getting lazy sometimes when i hit with people who don't hit heavy topspin and then when i go back to heavy topspinners is when I'm late on my shots causing me to muscle the ball or shank.

Ash_Smith
12-16-2009, 12:26 PM
I think you should probably try counting from 1 to 5 before you hit starting at the bounce of the ball. That way by the time you get to 5 the ball will be so far behind you it''ll have gone through the back fence and you'll be hitting from the carpark.

If his dad is not a modern coach he must be conventional so i'm assuming the kid cannot hit proper topspin! :)

If this is a genuine question (I got distracted by all the terms from the Oscar thread you used!) you can either step up and take the ball early or drop back and take it on the drop. Keep your prep shorter and use the pace as the ball comes up off the floor, keep the strings facing the target and accelerate up and through the ball from the shorter backswing - should help the timing.

sureshs
12-16-2009, 12:27 PM
The problem is that with topspin, the ball seems like it picks up pace after hitting the ground. Are you making sure your prepping properly and have your racquet back already? I find myself getting lazy sometimes when i hit with people who don't hit heavy topspin and then when i go back to heavy topspinners is when I'm late on my shots causing me to muscle the ball or shank.

I think I have the racquet back, though I would not swear to it in court. I think the problem is in the forward swing and racquet angle at impact. But backhand is much easier.

sureshs
12-16-2009, 12:30 PM
I think you should probably try counting from 1 to 5 before you hit starting at the bounce of the ball. That way by the time you get to 5 the ball will be so far behind you it''ll have gone through the back fence and you'll be hitting from the carpark.

If his dad is not a modern coach he must be conventional so i'm assuming the kid cannot hit proper topspin! :)

If this is a genuine question (I got distracted by all the terms from the Oscar thread you used!) you can either step up and take the ball early or drop back and take it on the drop. Keep your prep shorter and use the pace as the ball comes up off the floor, keep the strings facing the target and accelerate up and through the ball from the shorter backswing - should help the timing.

Tried standing at the baseline, as well as 3 to 4 feet behind, my usual distance. Are there different strategies based on taking it on the rise versus on the drop? Is the stroke motion different?

LeeD
12-16-2009, 12:32 PM
Those forehead height forehands, I have to really turn my shoulders, try to close the stance somewhat, hit thru the ball with a flattish topspun shot, and followthru almost level with my shoulders, not necessarily high up over my head.
If I just want to continue the rally, then a conventional high prep and higher followthru looping the ball 8' higher than the netcord, but I don't have the patience to play pittypat.

sureshs
12-16-2009, 12:35 PM
Those forehead height forehands, I have to really turn my shoulders, try to close the stance somewhat, hit thru the ball with a flattish topspun shot, and followthru almost level with my shoulders, not necessarily high up over my head.
If I just want to continue the rally, then a conventional high prep and higher followthru looping the ball 8' higher than the netcord, but I don't have the patience to play pittypat.

By closing somewhat, do you mean semi-open stance or do you mean left-foot forward?

LeeD
12-16-2009, 12:36 PM
The more offensive your shot is, the more closed your stance.
The less offensive, meaning a rally ball, the more you can keep an openstance thru out the stroke.
Your choice.

smoothtennis
12-16-2009, 12:57 PM
Last night, I was asked to hit and play points against a 10 year old boy who plays modern tennis. His dad is a coach, but not a modern one. I encounter this problem whenever I play juniors after having played old guys for weeks. It is the topspin to my forehand.

After 5 minutes, I get the timing right on my 1 handed backhand and neutralize or counter topspin the ball (I don't want to slice). On the forehand, which should be easier, I have problems with the ball flight and spin. I am able to track the ball and find it, but my racquet contact is not satisfactory. Though the ball goes across, it does not have the depth I want and I feel that my racquet has the wrong angle at impact and I am being caught half-prepared every time. I also feel blinded during the last moments by the trajectory of the ball.

It gets better with time, but at the next session, the problems come back.

Shureshs - I have seen and experienced this same thing. I really strongly feel that the difference is the timing of the ball off the court. With the older crowd, even good forehands, it seems we can get away with a little less prep time.

I have noticed with Superchamps and many good juniors, that they all tend to turn their shoulders into the forehand ('Back' of the shouler follows the ball) much more than older players which results in a significant difference in the topspin bounce coming up off the court.

For these types of shots, if you will key on the bounce, and make sure 'on the bounce of their ball, ie when it hits the court' your racket is ready to move foreward, ie, no more takeback, loop or anything, you will start to time these types of balls much better. When their balls hits the court, you start your foward stroke.

This has been my experience.

mike53
12-16-2009, 12:59 PM
Hit the ball out of the air with a swing volley. That way you don't worry about the bounce. If it bounces really high, turn sideways and hit an overhead.

LeeD
12-16-2009, 12:59 PM
I'd like to counter with the FernadoGonzalez forehand. He holds it two handed and waits for the ball to bounce, then starts his backswing motion with the racket held in front of him.
But then again, he's a good player.

sureshs
12-16-2009, 01:10 PM
Shureshs - I have seen and experienced this same thing. I really strongly feel that the difference is the timing of the ball off the court. With the older crowd, even good forehands, it seems we can get away with a little less prep time.

I have noticed with Superchamps and many good juniors, that they all tend to turn their shoulders into the forehand ('Back' of the shouler follows the ball) much more than older players which results in a significant difference in the topspin bounce coming up off the court.

For these types of shots, if you will key on the bounce, and make sure 'on the bounce of their ball, ie when it hits the court' your racket is ready to move foreward, ie, no more takeback, loop or anything, you will start to time these types of balls much better. When their balls hits the court, you start your foward stroke.

This has been my experience.

I'd like to counter with the FernadoGonzalez forehand. He holds it two handed and waits for the ball to bounce, then starts his backswing motion with the racket held in front of him.
But then again, he's a good player.

Yes, Gonzy and I are at somewhat different levels.

Smooth, I see you have addressed both hitting and returning.

So for returning, start forward swing as soon as the ball rises from the court.

For hitting with topspin, track ball with back shoulder and then rotate into the shot.

OK two simple points to file away in memory.

bertrevert
12-16-2009, 06:37 PM
I found it interesting to watch Soderling deal with Nadal in that FO match this year.

Head high horizontal takeback. Major shoulder turn - back of his left shoulder is facing fwds - as mentioned above. Hit at shoulder height (not early, not late). Paste it into the corner.

Of course Soderling is tall and skilled and all - however I feel it helped him handle the high bouncing ball - and we can all learn.

Blake0
12-16-2009, 07:16 PM
It's basically a timing issue, you'll need to hit against them more often to get the hang of it. For now, the best thing to do is keep your eye on the ball as long as possible, and keep your backswing short, increase backswing as timing gets better.

5263
12-16-2009, 09:12 PM
Quite an perplexing issue, that one of your capacity would struggle against a modern shot from a 10 yr old.

sureshs
12-17-2009, 05:21 AM
Quite an perplexing issue, that one of your capacity would struggle against a modern shot from a 10 yr old.

I need to get coached in modern tennis methods, but that will make me less prepared for the ball as I count 1 to 5 after the bounce and by that time the boy has started the next point.

And I don't think I can get much power by hitting the ball with the last main, even with a modern sweetspot.

I think the key is to practise on the ironing boad to get the swing right.

cncretecwbo
12-17-2009, 10:03 AM
make sure you hit the ball out in front of you, swing through, not across it and dont try to guide the ball.

sureshs
12-17-2009, 10:33 AM
make sure you hit the ball out in front of you, swing through, not across it and dont try to guide the ball.

You are saying don't put counter-topspin on it?

TenniseaWilliams
12-17-2009, 11:32 AM
You are saying don't put counter-topspin on it?

Now that you brought it up, I have to agree that facing modern topspin seems to get more difficult as you get older, and more conventional. I too, have faced the same issues. That is why I developed a new teaching tool, The Counter-Topspin Cord!

This ingenious device has been secretly and extensively used by top players in an undisclosed country *cough* (Switzerland) *cough* and has so many, many, success stories that I can't disclose them here or it would make this post sound like a sales pitch!

The Counter-Topspin Cord is an "elastic" cord designed to attach to your favorite tennis racquet and to the top snap/button on your tennis shorts.

When used correctly, the combination of different types of "elastic" in the cord will safely and naturally keep the racquet in your hand as you drive through the ball like an advanced player. Extremely excessive amounts of topspin or sidespin (often found in amateurs that are doomed to suck) invoke the "automatic cord feedback system" (tm) that gently reminds you that successful professionals always hit through the ball, by guiding the racquet edge to a variety of unpleasant destinations. (destinations generated at random by alternate physics)

Advanced models are in testing that develop even more professional swings by allowing the player to actually throw the racquet at the ball. This also helps develop an advanced players timing and footwork. We also have a child's version under development with impact foam edges for the racquet. (so the bruises won't show)

Please disregard any trolling about the "deathstar destination", or the nonsense of a cracked pelvis risk; they are clearly poorly designed and vicious slurs from people of bad breeding who can't stand our quick success.

The product only costs 14 cents US, and comes with a money back lifetime guarantee.
(non-refundable shipping is $423 per order, US only)

I hope my new Counter-Topspin Cord helps everyone beat on people and experience success the same way it has helped us for years!


EDIT:
Only people that suck at tennis and don't understand smart stuff will start putting down my exciting new invention until they buy it. I mean try it.

sureshs
12-17-2009, 12:08 PM
^^^ It is certainly cheaper than the dual-use topspin ironing board ($25) so no harm in trying it.

TenniseaWilliams
12-17-2009, 01:06 PM
Every advanced player has hit themselves with a racquet at one time or another. Coincidence is for small minds.