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View Full Version : gut in the mains or in the crossed with a poly?


Mikey Fresh
12-17-2009, 08:47 PM
Just wondering

aimr75
12-17-2009, 09:10 PM
put it in the mains.. for such an expensive string, youd want to get the characteristics of it more so by it being in the mains in the hybrid.. seems more like a waste in the crosses.. to just simply soften up the string bed, id put a synthetic in the crosses with a poly main

ClubHoUno
12-17-2009, 11:01 PM
Put it in the mains. Natty GUT is wasted In the crosses, unless you're a pro player, that can change it ever so often.

Irvin
12-18-2009, 02:17 AM
As much as I dislike putting poly in the crosses I would have to say put the gut in the mains and the poly in the crosses.

I have two rackets strung with a hybrid right now. One is strung with VS Touch 16 in the mains and the other is Prince Premier LT 16 and both have luxilon poly crosses. To tell you the truth I am hard pressed to tell the difference. The biggest difference is the sound because the natural gut has a lot more 'ping' to it. For that reason if I were going to string with a hybrid again I would not use the expensive natural gut in the mains but go with a good multi-filament if I was going to hybrid those sticks again.

Irvin

Steve Huff
12-18-2009, 05:22 PM
My opinion is the same. I have 2 rackets which I put Klip Legend in the mains of one, with Pacific Poly X in the crosses. The other, I put the Poly X in the mains and the Klip Legend in the crosses. The first one definitely plays better. But then, I like natural gut. What that says is that the 1st one plays more like natural gut. If you like the feel of poly, the second one may feel better to you.

TonyB
12-18-2009, 05:39 PM
Funny, I much prefer gut in the crosses with poly in the mains.

I don't consider it a "waste of gut" because it plays better. What WOULD be a waste is for me to put it in the mains when it's obvious to me that it plays better in the crosses.

I've played with the reverse setup as well, but gut in the crosses is much, much better.

davidahenry
12-18-2009, 07:20 PM
I strung one up a couple of weeks ago with Alu Power Rough in the mains and Head Natural Gut in the crosses. Hated it, and cut it out after one singles match. I usually play with a full bed of Alu Rough, and the hybrid just couldn't compare - didn't suit my game.

I've always been lead to believe that the overall bed will play more like the mains than the crosses. I'm not sure if this conventional wisdom is true. Even though I had Alu Rough in the mains, the bed didn't play anything like a full bed of Alu - felt closer to a full bed of gut than Alu.

I'm back to a full bed of Alu, and I am very happy.

I get insane spin with a full bed of Alu, and I didn't have that at all with the hybrid. Perhaps the crosses carry more of the responsibility for spin? Maybe I should try the reverse hybrid sometime, but I'm just so addicted to full Alu that it will probably be a while before trying a different hybrid.

Take care.

DH

volusiano
12-18-2009, 07:28 PM
Why does it seem like most people do a hybrid of gut and poly? Why not a full bed of gut if gut is the ultimate string in the first place? Is it just a cost saving thing? Or do the hybrid setups perform better or at least comparable to a full gut setup?

davidahenry
12-18-2009, 07:41 PM
Why does it seem like most people do a hybrid of gut and poly?

I am not sure that is the case. Many people do use gut/poly or poly/gut hybrids, but many others use something different. I've strung up many different hybrids for my customers - poly/gut, poly/synthetic gut, poly/multi, etc. With hybrids, the options are practically limitless.

Why not a full bed of gut if gut is the ultimate string in the first place?

Gut is not the ultimate string for everyone. For some, it is the ultimate. For others, like me, it isn't the ultimate. I've played with many strings and setups, and I prefer full poly much more than full gut.

Is it just a cost saving thing? Or do the hybrid setups perform better or at least comparable to a full gut setup?

There are several reasons why people use poly gut hybrids. For those who like poly but want to soften up the stringbed a little bit due to arm problems, a poly/gut hybrid can make sense.

For those who like poly but want a little more touch on shots - especially volleys, a poly/gut hybrid can make sense.

For those who like poly but want a little more power, a poly/gut hybrid can make sense.

For those who like gut but want to temper its power, a gut/poly hybrid can make sense.

For those who like gut but want a lower cost option, a gut/poly hybrid can make sense.

I'm sure there are other reasons/rationales that I'm missing, but I hope this helps.

Take care.

DH

TonyB
12-19-2009, 12:23 AM
I've always been lead to believe that the overall bed will play more like the mains than the crosses. I'm not sure if this conventional wisdom is true. Even though I had Alu Rough in the mains, the bed didn't play anything like a full bed of Alu - felt closer to a full bed of gut than Alu.



I have always said that the "conventional wisdom" is not accurate in my experience. The "mains" are not the "main" feel in the hybrid. Fact is, the opposite is more true. The crosses are much more responsible for power, comfort, and feel than the mains. The mains are responsible for spin and control (by moderating the power of the crosses).

Again, this is from my experience. There have been several threads on this topic that I have posted to, so I won't bother repeating my thoughts here. Suffice it to say that you really should ignore the popular belief (really only popular on this forum, quite honestly) and play with what you feel plays best for you.

alidisperanza
12-19-2009, 01:09 PM
Funny, I much prefer gut in the crosses with poly in the mains.

I don't consider it a "waste of gut" because it plays better. What WOULD be a waste is for me to put it in the mains when it's obvious to me that it plays better in the crosses.

I've played with the reverse setup as well, but gut in the crosses is much, much better.

+1

Why does it seem like most people do a hybrid of gut and poly? Why not a full bed of gut if gut is the ultimate string in the first place? Is it just a cost saving thing? Or do the hybrid setups perform better or at least comparable to a full gut setup?

Gut's just not for everyone. Personally, I find it to be too powerful and pointless to string the stuff at 65+ lbs. Try stringing gaucho at 65.... lmao good luck!




There are several reasons why people use poly gut hybrids. For those who like poly but want to soften up the stringbed a little bit due to arm problems, a poly/gut hybrid can make sense.

For those who like poly but want a little more touch on shots - especially volleys, a poly/gut hybrid can make sense.

For those who like poly but want a little more power, a poly/gut hybrid can make sense.

For those who like gut but want to temper its power, a gut/poly hybrid can make sense.

For those who like gut but want a lower cost option, a gut/poly hybrid can make sense.

I'm sure there are other reasons/rationales that I'm missing, but I hope this helps.

Take care.

DH


Well put

Suffice it to say that you really should ignore the popular belief (really only popular on this forum, quite honestly) and play with what you feel plays best for you.

+1... I like it when I don't have to type much =]

ClubHoUno
12-19-2009, 04:16 PM
I have always said that the "conventional wisdom" is not accurate in my experience. The "mains" are not the "main" feel in the hybrid. Fact is, the opposite is more true. The crosses are much more responsible for power, comfort, and feel than the mains. The mains are responsible for spin and control (by moderating the power of the crosses).

Again, this is from my experience. There have been several threads on this topic that I have posted to, so I won't bother repeating my thoughts here. Suffice it to say that you really should ignore the popular belief (really only popular on this forum, quite honestly) and play with what you feel plays best for you.

I've been testing a lot of Hybrids and in my view the crosses contributes most of the control in the string bed and some of the comfort, while the mains provide most of the feel, power and spin in a hybrid and also most of the comfort.

I agree that this issue is a highly personal matter, but if you look at what the string and racquet manufacturers say, this is pretty much how they also look at things.

The shorter crosses mainly provide the control of the full string bed and can be used to effictively tame the power of the mains. But the crosses will never be a GREAT power producer, but a GREAT power tamer/controller.

As far as feel goes, the mains are the FEEL strings in a hybrid and NOT the cross strings in my view.

Just my 2 cents :)

Blade0324
12-19-2009, 05:02 PM
Many good comments here and I'll echo with being another that is not a fan of Gut in general. I've played full sets, mains with poly crosses and crosses with Poly mains. I much prefer a syn gut or multi in crosses with poly mains to any setup I've tried. My coach played in the late 80's on the ATP and played mostly with Gut and the occassional kevlar. He always wanted me to play with gut mains and poly crosses saying it would be great spin. I have humored him and then let him play with my full poly setup and the additional spin he got was just sick.

I really feel that the mains contribute most to power and spin which is why poly mains do so well. They are low powered so it allows you to swing faster and still maintain control and thus impart more spin on the ball.
Of course this is just my opinion on what I have found for my game.

hoodjem
12-19-2009, 06:39 PM
I have Klip Legend gut in the mains and Klip K-Boom in the crosses. Feels pretty damn nice for a poly hybrid (OK, maybe a tad harsh compared to gut/multi hybrids but a heckuva lot better than any poly/multi hybrids), and seems to be lasting forever. And nothing moves . . . ever.

ClubHoUno
12-19-2009, 10:22 PM
I have Klip Legend gut in the mains and Klip K-Boom in the crosses. Feels pretty damn nice for a poly hybrid (OK, maybe a tad harsh compared to gut/multi hybrids but a heckuva lot better than any poly/multi hybrids), and seems to be lasting forever. And nothing moves . . . ever.

I play with a hybrid close to that in string types in a couple of my eacquets, VS NATTY GUT mains and Signum Pro Hyperion crosses.
I've testede the REVERSE setup of this with VS NATTY GUT crosses and Hyperion mains and while it played very nicely, I felt like I was playing a poly with a soft gut dampener.
With the REVERSE setup like the one you play, I feel like I play with a soft Natty GUT tamed a bit by a stiff poly.

What do you feel/think the mains versus the crosses provide mostly in a string bed ?

In my view the mains provide for most of the power, spin, feel and comfort, while the crosses provide a good deal of the overall comfort and most of the control to the overall string bed.

TonyB
12-20-2009, 02:58 AM
In my view the mains provide for most of the power, spin, feel and comfort, while the crosses provide a good deal of the overall comfort and most of the control to the overall string bed.


Wow, this is virtually the exact opposite of my findings after testing many hybrids of poly and gut.

What I have found to be true:

Mains: Spin and control

Crosses: Power, feel, comfort

jt_nblade
12-20-2009, 04:30 AM
Put it in the mains. Natty GUT is waisted in the crosses, unless you're a pro player, that can change it ever so often.


definitely gut main & poly cross, got advantages of both:)

tarkowski
12-20-2009, 07:15 AM
Wow, this is virtually the exact opposite of my findings after testing many hybrids of poly and gut.

What I have found to be true:

Mains: Spin and control

Crosses: Power, feel, comfort

I'm not sure you 2 are actually that far off from each other. I'm finding it a little tough to describe the nuances - but here's what I've found:

Gut M: easier (not necessarily more) access to spin due to a higher launch angle and freedom to drive the ball due to poly limiting forward motion

Gut X: need faster swing speed and launch angle for spin; need to be more careful in 'driving' the ball

I prefer the gut in the mains due to the very easy access to spin and the inherent control of the poly in moving the ball forward. I play at higher altitudes and I find that poly in the cross really ups my comfort level in driving the ball and not worrying about it going long. I find I get greater spin with less severe angle of attack, because gut is so elastic. This characteristic really helps in doubles, where I'm picking half-volleys off my shoelaces. With limited angle and a little bit of wrist, gut really helps get that ball over the net. From the baseline, the poly in the x limits the amount of linear forward motion so that I can drive through the ball a bit more without worrying about sending it long.

With the reverse set-up, I find I need a greater angle of attack and faster swing speed for the same spin, while depth control (not taking spin into account) is a little more shaky. Touch shots near the net require a little more effort to pull off as well.

For me, I found that the characteristics of a Gut in X setup was not quite as good as an all-poly. If I want to bang hard from the baseline, not sure I would use gut to make the bed a little softer. On the other hand, I found great benefits in depth control in putting poly in the X and prefer it to an all-gut setup, especially at higher altitude. All my opinion and experience of course! YMMV

Two more benefits to Gut in M that I've found: this combo lasts. Much longer than I had expected. I was hesitant to try it for fear of the poly sawing through the mains. Although this happens a little (I use ALU Rough), it is not near the issue I thought it would be. Also, even when the poly goes dead, it doesn't impact the playing characteristics too much since, IMO, the feel comes mostly from the mains. Again, YMMV.

rjg007
12-20-2009, 08:13 AM
definitely gut main & poly cross, got advantages of both:)

I think this is a waste especially if you are using the likes of PHT or BB rough because these strings are octaganol to grip the ball better, if they are in the crosses then the shape of the string does not help spin. Just think about the position if the racket head when you hit the ball - the crosses are vertical to the ball and so provide the power and feel. The mains are horizontal so are providing the spin. If you dont believe me put the racket in the postion you hit the ball and then run it over your hand.
I like quite a hard string bed as I feel it provides more feel, but so I don't get TE I put a synthetic gut in the crosses, softens it up just that extra bit to prevent TE. Current set up is PHT 17 mains/Wilson Sensation 15G crosses at 58lbs in Youtek Radical MP.

ClubHoUno
12-20-2009, 01:58 PM
I think this is a waste especially if you are using the likes of PHT or BB rough because these strings are octaganol to grip the ball better, if they are in the crosses then the shape of the string does not help spin. Just think about the position if the racket head when you hit the ball - the crosses are vertical to the ball and so provide the power and feel. The mains are horizontal so are providing the spin. If you dont believe me put the racket in the postion you hit the ball and then run it over your hand.
I like quite a hard string bed as I feel it provides more feel, but so I don't get TE I put a synthetic gut in the crosses, softens it up just that extra bit to prevent TE. Current set up is PHT 17 mains/Wilson Sensation 15G crosses at 58lbs in Youtek Radical MP.

This is precisely WHY I NEVER USE AN EDGE SHAPED AND/OR TWISTED CoPoly IN THE CROSSES IN HYBRIDS !!!

I ALWAYS use a smooth CoPoly in the CROSSES in all my Natty gut hybrids, and my currently favorite smooth CoPoly is with no doubt the Signum Pro Hyperion 17 Gauge.

However, when I do hybrids with a CoPoly in the mains, I MAKE SURE to get the benefits from the most spinny CoPolys, and therefore use an edge shaped and TWISTED Signum Pro Hyperion, which is heptagonally and TWISTED twice in a heating process to provider extra spin and control.
But because I NEVER feel much from the cross strings, putting a Natty gut there would be a wasted in my view - and I also need a setup, I ca use in the rain, so I bought a 660 feet reel of the EXCELLENT Babolat Xcel Power 16 and use this as my cross string in the CoPoly hybrid.

ClubHoUno
12-20-2009, 02:07 PM
Wow, this is virtually the exact opposite of my findings after testing many hybrids of poly and gut.

What I have found to be true:

Mains: Spin and control

Crosses: Power, feel, comfort

Interesting discussion :D

I think you will be hard pressed to find ANY serious stringer or string manufacturer, that will agree to the fact that you get the feel from the cross strings.

FEEL ALWAYS comes from mainly THE MAINS STRINGS!

This is why an all court player like Djokovic, who used to play with all X-One and prefers the softer feel of multis, and the all court player and part time serve & volleyer, Roger Federer, both play with the Natty gut in THE MAINS and the poly in THE CROSSES, while the pusher defensive counter attacker, Andy Murray, uses poly Alu power mains and Natty gut crosses.....

The feel players always prefer the Natty gut in THE MAINS or full Natty gut, while the bassiner bashers, pushers and defensive type of players, that play mostly from the baseline prefer Natty gut in THE crosses and poly in THE MAINS.