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Deus_Ex_McEnroe
12-20-2009, 06:19 PM
Hey guys. I've searched and read so I didn't have to make a post. But I am =)

Getting a Diablo Mid before they are gone for Christmas (owned 1 that got smashed... dont ask). I am NOT much of a string breaker. I'm looking for less restringing and yeah durability.

Full Poly and Poly/Gut hybrid may be more durable but is less cost effective in long run due to poly's deadening. (I know from experience too).

So I'm looking for either FULL GUT or FULL-MULTI. Multi tho loses tension; but having played a hybrid gut/poly sort of spoiled =)

I don't need VS; frankly it doesn't last. I was thinking KLIP Armour 17g good reviews but not many (and heard their company got bad?), or Pacifc Touggut 16g/17g. If I went Full Gut. I dont expect it to last forever of course. As far as full multi's I am unsure. Thanks!

ClubHoUno
12-20-2009, 06:46 PM
Try BABOLAT VS TOUCH 16 MAINS @ 58 lbs and BABOLAT VS TOUCH 15L CROSSES @ 60 lbs.

The thicker cross string will add some control and extra longevity and durability to the hybrid and you will still feel the nice 16 gauge Natty gut in the mains. Finally insert a buch if Babolat Elastocross stringsavers to the string bed - 25-40 will do it, and you have yourself a very durable Natty gut setup, that will play nice for 25+ hours minimum.

The thicker Natty gut gauge in the crosses and the string savers will also help reduce string movement.

Deus_Ex_McEnroe
12-20-2009, 07:16 PM
Try BABOLAT VS TOUCH 16 MAINS @ 58 lbs and BABOLAT VS TOUCH 15L CROSSES @ 60 lbs.

The thicker cross string will add some control and extra longevity and durability to the hybrid and you will still feel the nice 16 gauge Natty gut in the mains. Finally insert a buch if Babolat Elastocross stringsavers to the string bed - 25-40 will do it, and you have yourself a very durable Natty gut setup, that will play nice for 25+ hours minimum.

The thicker Natty gut gauge in the crosses and the string savers will also help reduce string movement.

I was thinking of that as an option - was going to mention but couldn't edit my post?

Anyways but shouldn't it be the 15L in Mains and 16/17 in crosses for more durability/longevity?

number.432
12-20-2009, 07:42 PM
Try BABOLAT VS TOUCH 16 MAINS @ 58 lbs and BABOLAT VS TOUCH 15L CROSSES @ 60 lbs.

The thicker cross string will add some control and extra longevity and durability to the hybrid and you will still feel the nice 16 gauge Natty gut in the mains. Finally insert a buch if Babolat Elastocross stringsavers to the string bed - 25-40 will do it, and you have yourself a very durable Natty gut setup, that will play nice for 25+ hours minimum.

The thicker Natty gut gauge in the crosses and the string savers will also help reduce string movement.

This is such a great idea. I'm going give it a shot my next restringing. Because honestly I think I'm sort of wasting a full VS job. Although after 6 hours of hard hitting it shows very little sign of wear.

I was thinking of that as an option - was going to mention but couldn't edit my post?

Anyways but shouldn't it be the 15L in Mains and 16/17 in crosses for more durability/longevity?

I think you need to have up to certain post counts before you can 'edit'.

Back to the topic yes if you put 15L main it will last longer but with less feel.

ClubHoUno
12-20-2009, 07:59 PM
I was thinking of that as an option - was going to mention but couldn't edit my post?

Anyways but shouldn't it be the 15L in Mains and 16/17 in crosses for more durability/longevity?

No, not if you want the best combination of playability from the Natty gut mains and durability from the Natty gut crosses.....

If you play with the thicker Natty gut in the mains, you don't get the spin, power and control of the thinner Natty gut and it will be sort of wasted in the cross strings.

The cross strings are for control and comfort, so go with the thicker Natty gut in the crosses. Also, the thicker Natty gut in the crosses will have a harder time cutting into the thinner Natty gut mains, so you get better durability out of it. The mains break because the crosses cut into them in my view - so always go with a thicker cross string to get better durability and a thinner main string to obtain optimal playing feel, power and spin.

Try it and tell me how it plays, and then Thank me afterwards :p

It is a misconception, that a thicker gauge in the mains is the best way to prolong durability - instead go with a thick gauge in the crosses and a thinner gauge in the mains. The thicker gauge in the crosses will also help minimize string movement and tame some of the power of the thinner mains.

Ohhhh and forgot. To do this hybrid, you need to do two identical racquets, because you need to open up two bags of VS Natty gut strings, and They will need to be installed in a racquet ASAP.
NATTY GUT will dry out if left in an open bag for weeks.

Deus_Ex_McEnroe
12-20-2009, 08:21 PM
Alrighty I will thank you later then =) I haven't experienced enough set ups yet to burst through all the misconceptions and admit to some ignorance or else I wouldn't have posted =D; what u say though is clear and does make sense the way you put it. Thanks you've been a great help!!!

Well I plan on doing this via TW first (when order racquet... assuming they do a decent job ordered many things from TW never a racket/stringjob) and it's cheaper/see if like it for when it finally does break (I still have a set of unopened VS Gut Touch 16 from former hybrid setup but again my racket got busted).

Deus_Ex_McEnroe
12-20-2009, 10:38 PM
Been thinking Full VS Gut even with 15L at crosses may be too powerful for me. (wish I could edit my post :))

The gut/poly hybrid I used before I to me it didnt seem durable but I also had poly strung higher than I should have. (also hurt elbow =) But I liked poly too...

Maybe using a poly in the MAIN like BB Original 16 which Ive heard is very durable/holds tension well (or whichever similar) and a good reliable Syn Gut OR Nat Gut (not VS) in the Cross to soften it up and not cut into the mains as quick as a poly in crosses would? Wouldnt it potentially last longer and not snap as soon as if a poly were in the crosses? (maybe with some elasto's on it). Or is that just weird combo version? Ive not seen many with poly mains/syngut or nat gut crosses... (fully poly would prob be too stiff hurt arm).

COPEY
12-21-2009, 04:23 AM
Ohhhh and forgot. To do this hybrid, you need to do two identical racquets, because you need to open up two bags of VS Natty gut strings, and They will need to be installed in a racquet ASAP.
NATTY GUT will dry out if left in an open bag for weeks.

I'm curious about the above statement - could you explain why you have to use two sets of gut?

z_z
12-21-2009, 05:05 AM
Cos he recommended two different gauges of VS Gut for the mains and crosses...16 for mains and 15L for crosses...

JT_2eighty
12-21-2009, 11:52 AM
Ohhhh and forgot. To do this hybrid, you need to do two identical racquets, because you need to open up two bags of VS Natty gut strings, and They will need to be installed in a racquet ASAP.
NATTY GUT will dry out if left in an open bag for weeks.

Just get some ziplock bags if you don't want to string both sticks at once, so you can also save the other halves for the next restring and leave yourself the chance to adjust tension?

Also, if NG will dry out in an open bag for weeks, will it 'dry out' on a stringbed after a few weeks? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm just curious. I've just started testing a few NG setups, and since I use an 18x20, and with three sticks all with varying NG setups at the moment, am i at risk of any of them drying out? Because I am rotating them and don't anticipate breakage anytime soon (I hope, for my wallet's sake).

By the way, one of mine is a BDE Rallye 15L main with Pacific ToughGut 16L crosses, and it feels softer than the same stick and tension with VS 16 mains and the same PacTougGut 16L cross. And just to keep on rambling, the third I strung is also VS mains and toughGut 16L x's, but that one I put a huge 10x13 block of String savers in, and the change in feel is noticeable with the savers versus without.

For what it's worth, the string saver one is by far going to last AT LEAST twice as long as the non-saver sticks, as it barely looks used after a few sessions, BUT I do get a better feedback with the non-saver stick with the exact same strings and tension as the one with savers. The BDE mains are only slightly behind in control as compared to the VS, but the thicker gauge BDE is playing more powerful than the VS. The BDE moves and notches more than the VS.

All in all, the first few matches with the VS main sticks was amazing and I see why it is the gold standard. I had bought the BDE before it went out of stock, and have a few sets as backup which still fit the bill and at half the price of the VS, I can't complain there either. To me, there are benefits to each and from the looks of it, the thicker BDE is less durable than the 16g VS, but only slightly so, I guess quality control outweighs thickness on this one.

In the end, if you are going to do full gut, the string savers will absolutely make those strings last quite a bit longer, and they'll help stiffen the feel up a bit if that is ok for you, so string accordingly.

Deus_Ex_McEnroe
12-21-2009, 03:32 PM
Yeah thanks; although I must admit I'm racketed with indecision now I really need to experience a bunch of setups firsthand to really understand but lack the $ and stringer to experiment thus why looking for a longer lasting set up.

I decided between Full Gut as Clubho suggested; OR this:

Question about CoPoly Main/Gut Cross... forget the debate if guts wasted in cross for a sec - couldnt that setup w/string saver be even more durable then Full Gut/w string savers?

ClubHoUno
12-21-2009, 08:19 PM
I'm curious about the above statement - could you explain why you have to use two sets of gut?

Because I suggest using one gauge in the mains and a thicker gauge in the crosses..........

Just get some ziplock bags if you don't want to string both sticks at once, so you can also save the other halves for the next restring and leave yourself the chance to adjust tension?

Also, if NG will dry out in an open bag for weeks, will it 'dry out' on a stringbed after a few weeks? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm just curious. I've just started testing a few NG setups, and since I use an 18x20, and with three sticks all with varying NG setups at the moment, am i at risk of any of them drying out? Because I am rotating them and don't anticipate breakage anytime soon (I hope, for my wallet's sake).

By the way, one of mine is a BDE Rallye 15L main with Pacific ToughGut 16L crosses, and it feels softer than the same stick and tension with VS 16 mains and the same PacTougGut 16L cross. And just to keep on rambling, the third I strung is also VS mains and toughGut 16L x's, but that one I put a huge 10x13 block of String savers in, and the change in feel is noticeable with the savers versus without.

For what it's worth, the string saver one is by far going to last AT LEAST twice as long as the non-saver sticks, as it barely looks used after a few sessions, BUT I do get a better feedback with the non-saver stick with the exact same strings and tension as the one with savers. The BDE mains are only slightly behind in control as compared to the VS, but the thicker gauge BDE is playing more powerful than the VS. The BDE moves and notches more than the VS.

All in all, the first few matches with the VS main sticks was amazing and I see why it is the gold standard. I had bought the BDE before it went out of stock, and have a few sets as backup which still fit the bill and at half the price of the VS, I can't complain there either. To me, there are benefits to each and from the looks of it, the thicker BDE is less durable than the 16g VS, but only slightly so, I guess quality control outweighs thickness on this one.

In the end, if you are going to do full gut, the string savers will absolutely make those strings last quite a bit longer, and they'll help stiffen the feel up a bit if that is ok for you, so string accordingly.

You got a point there :p

Maybe if you store the gut in a bag with ziplocks it will be fine - and I exaggerated when I said the Natty gut will dry out in a matter of weeks, probably should have said several months. Just to be on the safe side, I always use the gut I've opened up.

There must be a reason as to why Babolat sells the VS NATTY GUT in airtight bags.........

You can leave the racquet with Natty GUT for years and it will still most likely be fine, but to be on the safe side - I store my racquets in Vantage Synthetic racquets bags and then store them inside my Tennis bag in a compartment that has water guard.

I've had 3 racquets with Natty GUT, where the gut broke from just laying on a table - maybe because of heat, moisture or maybe a fly startede to eat the Natty GUT - I only adviced him to store the gut in an air tight bag because of these unfortunate incidents.

As I say, only rarely do Natty GUT break just from laying around, but IT CAN HAPPEN - and It's really annoying to find your new racquet with a broke Natty GUT string, when you come home from a 2 week vacation - so my advice is just to be on the safe side :)

Yes, string savers so make the Natty GUT feel stiffer, but I prefer the stiffer feel and I get 2-3 times extra life out of my Natty GUT by using these small plastic 'ants' ;)

Yeah thanks; although I must admit I'm racketed with indecision now I really need to experience a bunch of setups firsthand to really understand but lack the $ and stringer to experiment thus why looking for a longer lasting set up.

I decided between Full Gut as Clubho suggested; OR this:

Question about CoPoly Main/Gut Cross... forget the debate if guts wasted in cross for a sec - couldnt that setup w/string saver be even more durable then Full Gut/w string savers?

Not in my experience. The CoPoly mains will go dead before the Natty GUT, unless you're a string breaker and ruin the strings after a few hours anyway.

When you hybrid the CoPoly mains,the hybrid will feel dead long before the gut dies, but the REVERSE hybrid with Natty GUT mains and CoPoly crosses in my experience will be more durable, because the stiffer CoPoly in the crosses will not contribute by much to the overall feel and spin of the stringbed, because the Natty GUT is in the mains and will Continue to feel good long after the CoPoly has died.

Full Natty GUT will always outlast a hybrid with Natty GUT if you're NOT a string breaker. In fact a full Natty GUT setup with the thicker gauge crosses and the thinner gauge mains will last much longer than you think, and even be durable for a string breaker, especially if you install string savers, as I recommended.

JT_2eighty
12-21-2009, 08:19 PM
Well yes, for pure durability's sake poly is #1. I just prefer gut mains and that's all . If you like poly mains and gut xs, msv hex or sppp are my favorite for a 'longevity' poly to match the gut

ClubHoUno
12-21-2009, 08:29 PM
Well yes, for pure durability's sake poly is #1. I just prefer gut mains and that's all . If you like poly mains and gut xs, msv hex or sppp are my favorite for a 'longevity' poly to match the gut

I think people with a solid baseline game (Rafa Nadal, Delpo) will prefer full poly, people with a solid all court game, but has most confidence at the baseline (Andy Murray) will prefer the poly mains and Natty GUT crosses, while the more all court gamer, which comes a bit to the net at times (Djokovic & Roger Federe) prefers the Natty GUT mains and poly crosses.

I much prefer Natty GUT mains and CoPoly crosses - in fact prefer this to full Natty GUT, because I get a bit more taming of the Natty GUT power and added control from the stiffer CoPoly in the crosses...
If I ever use a CoPoly mains,and I hybrid it with a Prime Multi in the crosses, the CoPoly mains has to of a very thin gauge for better feel and control.

Deus_Ex_McEnroe
12-21-2009, 09:25 PM
Very helpful. I was worried about some power with Full Gut tho; even tho I am not MUCH of a stringbreaker although Ive when I played more regularly I did; But that's why I was thinking of Gut/Poly Hybrid, just seeing which version was more durable... (I know I seem to now be fighting going the full gut =D

I must admit with Diablo TF BC or RC poly makes me want to try it with the Nat Gut + string savers. (although BC's shape would saw through the mains quicker wouldnt it?)

Anyways still got time to decide... more than helpful esp you Clubho! =D Appreciate it hightly.

Deus_Ex_McEnroe
12-22-2009, 12:13 PM
Well I went with what ClubHo suggested ultimately with the Full natty Gut 16 VS Main/15L Cross 2-3 higher tens. And ordered Savers. I also see 2 others posted similar questions and Clubho told them what he told me =) Maybe it'll be called the Clubho Gut Setup! (I also ordered Black/Red Code separate purely for vanity to one day see how it looks in my Diablo =D

parasailing
12-22-2009, 01:03 PM
ClubHoUno - What do you think of going with VS Team 17G in the mains and 15G VS touch in the crosses? Have you tried this setup since it would appear that going with thiner gauge in the mains would produce more spin?

Or is 17G not durable compared to 16G?

ClubHoUno
12-22-2009, 10:14 PM
Well I went with what ClubHo suggested ultimately with the Full natty Gut 16 VS Main/15L Cross 2-3 higher tens. And ordered Savers. I also see 2 others posted similar questions and Clubho told them what he told me =) Maybe it'll be called the Clubho Gut Setup! (I also ordered Black/Red Code separate purely for vanity to one day see how it looks in my Diablo =D

Nice to hear - look forward to hear how this setup plays for you :)

ClubHoUno - What do you think of going with VS Team 17G in the mains and 15G VS touch in the crosses? Have you tried this setup since it would appear that going with thiner gauge in the mains would produce more spin?

Or is 17G not durable compared to 16G?

I've tested a lots of hybrid combos of full VS NATTY GUT - always with a thinner gauge in the mains and a thicker gauge in the crosses, because the cross string is the one that cut into the mains in my setups.

I just had a hybrid of VS 17MAINS & VS 16 CROSSES in my 2 PSGT LIMITED, and it played awesome and was durable - 12 hours on one of the racquets and 14 hours on the other, of course with 48 string savers installed in each string bed.

Just got a good deal on 20 bags of VS NATTY GUT, so got tempted and now have 2 PSGT LIMITED WITH a full setup of VS 17 and a bunch of string savers installed :)
Will play with it tonight - looking forward to testing it.... Have played full VS 17 a couple of times before, and It's orgasmic GREAT in a control racquet like PSGT LIMITED with its 18x20 string pattern and think beam.

I would suggest doing either VS 16 MAINS & VS 15L CROSSES or VS 17 MAINS & VS 16 CROSSES.

VS 17 MAINS & VS 15L CROSSES is maybe ordning it a bit.
But what the heck, if it feels ok and is even more durable than VS 17MAINS & VS 16 CROSSES, then do it....

But would first try VS 17MAINS & VS 16 CROSSES or VS 16 MAINS & VS 15L CROSSES.....

parasailing
12-22-2009, 10:44 PM
Nice to hear - look forward to hear how this setup plays for you :)





Just got a good deal on 20 bags of VS NATTY GUT, so got tempted and now have 2 PSGT LIMITED WITH a full setup of VS 17 and a bunch of string savers installed :)
.....


What was the cost of each set of Natty Gut? Here in the US, they are going for about $41.95. If it is some store, can I get in on this great deal:).