PDA

View Full Version : Polyester vs Multifilament tension loss


jazzyfunkybluesy
12-22-2009, 05:26 AM
I have gotten a mixed bag of information with regard to tension loss. On raquetsportsindustry.com they have performed tests on all kinds of strings. For instance Pro Supex Maxim Touch multi 1.25. It has a tested tension loss of 12.13 pounds. Compared to Pro Supex Big Ace Micro poly 1.15. It has a tested tension loss of 19.34 pounds. Many people selling strings will say multis lose tension faster. I have seen multis move around alot but the tests indicate better tension maintenance on the multis. What info am I missing?:)

fuzz nation
12-22-2009, 06:09 AM
I'm just thinking about the two types of string. Multi is a whole lot more resilient, so when it loses some tension, it also loses a lot of control for me, so I rarely use it. Poly has just a little resilience, but that goes away after maybe 12-15 hours of play (as I understand it). Once that happens, it's kind of dead. In my tiny brain, it's a sort of "apples and oranges" issue just because the properties of the strings are quite different.

Rates of tension loss? No idea...

TenniseaWilliams
12-22-2009, 06:45 AM
A very general rule of thumb (if you ignore aramid) is that the stiffer the string material, the higher the rate of tension loss.

http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/issues/200709/images/stringmap_All-Strings.jpg
This graph is from the RSI string test in 2007. Natural gut is red, nylons are blue, poly is green, aramid/kevlar is gold.

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-22-2009, 06:51 AM
Thanks for the graph. So they are wrong about multis losing tension faster for the most part.

ClubHoUno
12-22-2009, 09:10 AM
Deleted !!!!!

ClubHoUno
12-22-2009, 09:15 AM
Thanks for the graph. So they are wrong about multis losing tension faster for the most part.

It depends on which multis you/they are using.

What I call Prime Multis (expensive GREAT Multi strings) don't lose that much tension and certainly less than ALL polys/CoPolys.

My favorite Prime Multis are Babolat Xcel Power and the now discontinued Laserfibre Supernatural Gut Prostock, and they both lose very little tension - and as I hybrid my Prime Multi in the crosses with a good stiff CoPoly in the mains, when the multi starts to lose tension and turn soft & mushy, the CoPoly pretty much also starts to slowly die and get stiffer and stiffer - so they sort of 'support each other' in prolonging the overall life of the hybrid and makes it feel better for a longer period, because as the multi gets loose and looser, the CoPoly at the same time gets stiffer and stiffer.

Prime Multis to consider, that has minimal tension loss:

1. Babolat Xcel Power (especially 16 gauge)
2. Tecnifibre NRG2 (especially 16 gauge)
3. Tecnifibre X-One (especially 18 gauge)
4. Wilson NXT Tour (especially 16 gauge)

Other good multis that lose very little tension are:

Tecnifibre Multifeel, Babolat FiberTour & Babolat Attraction.

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-22-2009, 09:30 AM
Good points Ho Uno,

I will try the full multi setup and a poly main and a multi cross as well.

rippatennis777
12-25-2009, 08:48 AM
[QUOTE=ClubHoUno;4214784]It depends on which multis you/they are using.

the CoPoly pretty much also starts to slowly die and get stiffer and stiffer - so they sort of 'support each other' in prolonging the overall life of the hybrid and makes it feel better for a longer period, because as the multi gets loose and looser, the CoPoly at the same time gets stiffer and stiffer.

Can some one elaborate on this. I'm not sure if itís works exactly like that.
Seems like jazzyfunkybluesy also agree with this theory.

Richie Rich
12-25-2009, 09:14 AM
the CoPoly pretty much also starts to slowly die and get stiffer and stiffer - so they sort of 'support each other' in prolonging the overall life of the hybrid and makes it feel better for a longer period, because as the multi gets loose and looser, the CoPoly at the same time gets stiffer and stiffer.

Can some one elaborate on this. I'm not sure if it’s works exactly like that.
Seems like jazzyfunkybluesy also agree with this theory.

it's the opposite. poly does not get stiffer the longer it is in your racquet. it gets less resilient. which means the elasticity goes. which makes it less stiff and which makes it lose tension.

rippatennis777
12-25-2009, 09:27 AM
it's the opposite. poly does not get stiffer the longer it is in your racquet. it gets less resilient. which means the elasticity goes. which makes it less stiff and which makes it lose tension.

You quote a wrong person. I was quoting string guru ClubHoUno.

In fact, I agree 100% what you saying, it's make more sense.

bad_call
12-25-2009, 03:31 PM
A very general rule of thumb (if you ignore aramid) is that the stiffer the string material, the higher the rate of tension loss.

http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/issues/200709/images/stringmap_All-Strings.jpg
This graph is from the RSI string test in 2007. Natural gut is red, nylons are blue, poly is green, aramid/kevlar is gold.

where's the multis?

tarkowski
12-25-2009, 04:28 PM
where's the multis?

red = gut
blue = multi
green = poly
orange = kevlar

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-25-2009, 05:19 PM
You struck something by accident I think. The blue representing nylon includes multi, synthetic and nylon. I am going to guess that the multis are at the low end of the blue dots.

cork_screw
12-25-2009, 05:56 PM
If you're worried about tension loss, I would try one of the newer poly companies like Weiss Cannon. They've always kept tension very well, so has Topspin. I would stay clear of Luxilon unless you don't mind restringing regularly, but for most people that becomes expensive. Luxilon tends to drop tension very easily. As for multi, I would actually suggest a kevlar string.

ClubHoUno
12-25-2009, 06:04 PM
it's the opposite. poly does not get stiffer the longer it is in your racquet. it gets less resilient. which means the elasticity goes. which makes it less stiff and which makes it lose tension.

I strongly disagree - elasticity and resilience loos is NOT the same as losing tension.

A string can lose its tension, but keep its elasticity just fine (for instance Natty gut) and a string can lose its elasticity and still be stiff as a board (for instance a CoPoly)

When for instance Luxilon alu BB Power dies, the tension might be wayyyy low, but it feels and reacts like a stiff board. Hence we have a third type of situation, in which the tension is gone, the elasticity is gone - but the string feels way stiffer and more boardy.

Tension loss and loss of resilience don't necessarily have ANYTHING to do with each other.

This is why I like a HYBRID of Natty gut mains and CoPoly crosses.
Even after the CoPoly has died, the hybrid keep on playing well, because the stiff CoPoly counterweighs the loose more elastic softer Natty gut and makes the hybrid play well for a longer period, because of how the two different strings interacts together in this hybrid.

Same thing applies to a HYBRID of CoPoly and Prime Multi in my experience.

ClubHoUno
12-25-2009, 06:06 PM
where's the multis?

Nylon = Multi

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-25-2009, 06:10 PM
I disagree - elasticity and resistente is NOT the same as losing tension.
A string can lose its tension, but keep its elasticity just fine (for instance Natty gut) and a string can lose its elasticity and still be stiff as a board (for instance a CoPoly)

Tension loss and loss of resilience don't necessarily have ANYTHING to do with each other.

This is why I like a HYBRID of Natty gut mains and CoPoly crosses.
Even after the CoPoly has died, the hybrid keep on playing well, because the stiff CoPoly counterweighs the loose more elastic softer Natty gut and makes the hybrid play well for a longer period, because of how the two different strings interacts together in this hybrid.

Same thing applies to a HYBRID of CoPoly and Prime Multi in my experience.


Good stuff, I think you have nailed it.

Now I have a question for you.

I enjoy PS BAM at 65 pounds as a 1 piece on a KPS 88.

To get similar control what tension would you use for:

PS BAM 1.15 mains

PS Maxim Touch multi 1.25 crosses

Thanks Uno.

bad_call
12-25-2009, 06:11 PM
You struck something by accident I think. The blue representing nylon includes multi, synthetic and nylon. I am going to guess that the multis are at the low end of the blue dots.

i have geico. :) btw - don't think that all multis are composed exclusively from nylon.

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-25-2009, 06:14 PM
True.

Good choice of signature too.

bad_call
12-25-2009, 06:15 PM
True.

Good choice of signature too.

yes. yours as well...hope only on the tennis court.

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-25-2009, 06:18 PM
Absolutely, I am a serve and volley progressive. Good to know you.

ClubHoUno
12-25-2009, 06:19 PM
i have geico. :) btw - don't think that all multis are composed exclusively from nylon.

No they aren't - X-One and NRG2 are composed of a combo of different materials, but tennis sites still insist on naming them 'nylons'

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-25-2009, 06:22 PM
Come on Uno,

Dont leave me hanging.

ClubHoUno
12-25-2009, 06:25 PM
Good stuff, I think you have nailed it.

Now I have a question for you.

I enjoy PS BAM at 65 pounds as a 1 piece on a KPS 88.

To get similar control what tension would you use for:

PS BAM 1.15 mains

PS Maxim Touch multi 1.25 crosses

Thanks Uno.

I haven't played with these strings, so some other may have better experience in how you should 'tension them' than me.

But in my experience you should always string the softer multi 2-4 lbs higher than the CoPoly.

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-25-2009, 06:31 PM
Now that I look back on this thread I see that you posted that you use gut or multi in the mains at a higher tension and then a co poly in the crosses at a lower tension.

Thanks mate will try soon!

ClubHoUno
12-25-2009, 06:56 PM
Now that I look back on this thread I see that you posted that you use gut or multi in the mains at a higher tension and then a co poly in the crosses at a lower tension.

Thanks mate will try soon!

FYI :D

I change strings and Hybrids all the time. What you see today might be different tomorrow 8)

But I've settled on Babolat VS 17 TEAM NATTY GUT MAINS @ 60 lbs and VS 16 TOUCH NATTY GUT CROSSES @ 62 lbs in my 2 PSGT LIMITED (I HAVE THEM BOTH STRUNG WITH FULL VS 17 AT THE MOMENT, but at too low tension, but will string them up again soon - you learn from mistakes and from testing constantly)

In 2 of my PSGT TOUR I have Babolat VS TEAM 17 NATTY GUT MAINS @ 60 lbs and Signum Pro Hyperion 17 CoPoly CROSSES @ 56 lbs.

In the other 2 PSGT TOUR, which I use for experimenting and rain setup, when I play outdoor, I AVOID using Natty GUT and thus for now have them strung with Signum Pro Tornado 18 MAINS @ 55 lbs and Babolat Xcel Power 16 CROSSES @ 60 lbs.
I use the Tornado CoPoly in the mains here, because It's a TWISTED & Heptagonal shaped CoPoly for spin, which I don't think work as well in the crosses, so have the Prime Multi in a thicker gauge in the crosses and the thin CoPoly in the mains for spin and control. I really like this setup.

Sometimes, when I just swing out of sync, and need some free power, the Natty GUT MAINS or the full Natty GUT works wonder, but other times I need some extra control, and the CoPolys mains and prime multi crosses works wonders for my tennis game.

Richie Rich
12-26-2009, 04:10 AM
I strongly disagree - elasticity and resilience loos is NOT the same as losing tension.

A string can lose its tension, but keep its elasticity just fine (for instance Natty gut) and a string can lose its elasticity and still be stiff as a board (for instance a CoPoly)

When for instance Luxilon alu BB Power dies, the tension might be wayyyy low, but it feels and reacts like a stiff board. Hence we have a third type of situation, in which the tension is gone, the elasticity is gone - but the string feels way stiffer and more boardy.

Tension loss and loss of resilience don't necessarily have ANYTHING to do with each other.

This is why I like a HYBRID of Natty gut mains and CoPoly crosses.
Even after the CoPoly has died, the hybrid keep on playing well, because the stiff CoPoly counterweighs the loose more elastic softer Natty gut and makes the hybrid play well for a longer period, because of how the two different strings interacts together in this hybrid.

Same thing applies to a HYBRID of CoPoly and Prime Multi in my experience.

i'd love to see some data on that. it's hard to lose resiliency and not tension. or vice versa. what you are feeling when poly feels boardy after a while is the resiliency or elasticity gone from the string. it won't stretch any more so it's not absorbing shock either.

bad_call
12-26-2009, 05:04 AM
No they aren't - X-One and NRG2 are composed of a combo of different materials, but tennis sites still insist on naming them 'nylons'

haven't visited those sites that name multis as nylons.

btw - anyone know if co-polys are lumped together with polys on the RSI chart?

bad_call
12-26-2009, 05:07 AM
Good stuff, I think you have nailed it.

Now I have a question for you.

I enjoy PS BAM at 65 pounds as a 1 piece on a KPS 88.

To get similar control what tension would you use for:

PS BAM 1.15 mains

PS Maxim Touch multi 1.25 crosses

Thanks Uno.

jfb - i would start with BAM mains at 62 and MT at 66/67.

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-26-2009, 06:11 AM
Thanks bad call.

The copolys are lumped in on the RSI chart.

BigT
12-26-2009, 08:09 PM
To the OP, I find that the difference in tension loss between multis and polys is tough to compare.
For me, the average life of a multi is about 2-3 hours, which is a session or two of hitting. So they'll break soon anyway.
Polys last much longer; many 10+ hours, which could span over a week. The loss of tension is noticed much more.
Plus, a multi that has lost tension is still more playable than a poly that has.

jazzyfunkybluesy
12-28-2009, 12:32 PM
Gees I hope they last longer than 2 hours. Just bought a reel of Maxim Touch 1.25. I usually cut out the BAM after 2 or 3 weeks so I think the durability of the 1.25 MT will be fine for me.

Now some semi western gripper with a Babolat Pure Drive might break these in a hour.

I will post a review of the Maxim Touch in a week or so. Thanks for everyones input.