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kelawai
12-22-2009, 08:27 PM
Recently I play this new guy. As a practice game or recreational game/set. When a shot is out, should he call it instead of using his finger to point out.

I have hard time to keep up to see him, if I make a deep shot and I have to watch him first and then his return shot next in a quick seconds. A few times I chased down a shot and hit a good return or winner and to realize that my previous shot was out. He did not call or shout out but did raise and point using his index finger while I am paying more attention to his return shot. It was a waste of energy to fight and run down for a previous bad shot.

Another time, I hit deep to the Baseline and he dropshot me right over the net to my side. I took a glance at him, no call, no finger and turn my eyes to his dropshot and to know I have to time to retrieve the shot by a second. These whole game was like, whenever I make a deep shot, I have to look at him if he make any out signal then to his return shot.

Should a recreational tennis or League tennis be like this. I did watched a few League's Matches and some players did the same thing. Using finger instead of call (verbal) out. Is this allow in a Match?

MomentumGT
12-22-2009, 08:42 PM
Its allowed in a match for sure. Usually you only need to check the opponents body language if you "feel" your shot is about to be out or if its going to land pretty close being a close call or what not. If you constantly have to check the guy if he's going to use his finger for an out call it doesn't sound like you are very confident your shots are going to land in.

-Jon

Solat
12-22-2009, 08:50 PM
well he should make an audible call, just ask him next time, not hard to do.

Cody
12-22-2009, 08:50 PM
Many juniors i play with signal an out call by holding one finger up.

It depends on how long he is holding the signal up, if he is too fast just ask him too take some time.

Dreamcastin
12-23-2009, 12:32 AM
yea he should call it. to me you use the "finger method" when your not playing the ball.

makinao
12-23-2009, 12:44 AM
In some cases, calling out may not be heard by your opponent, either because of the acoustics of the court, or your voice might not be loud enough to cut through the ambient noise. Other times, some players in adjacent courts get bothered. Therefore, holding up ones index finger is acceptable as long as it is done promptly.

tfm1973
12-23-2009, 04:22 AM
i find holding up the middle finger is not advised. in my experiences anyway.

raiden031
12-23-2009, 04:27 AM
I usually use both the index finger and the vocal out call just in case, so there is no question I'm calling it out. With the finger though, if he raises his arm up with the finger, it should be alot easier for you to see it without having to focus on your opponents finger instead of his next shot.

Just communicate that he needs to do a better job of signaling the out call, otherwise if you are serving, just assume its your point and call the score nice and loud and then when he whines, tell him if he can't signal an out call reasonably then you are going to claim the point. Some people need to be treated like little kids until they get the message.

brad1730
12-23-2009, 05:09 AM
I use the finger when I don't return the ball. Most of the time my opponent knows that it's out, so I'm just making it official. I feel that it's nicer than yelling "OUT" or something. I played this guy that would yell "BACK" everytime my ball was out. Yeah, I know it's out, and I'm not deaf. It seemed like he was trying a cheap mental strategy that was more annoying than anything else.

If the ball is close to the line, and I hit it because I want to make sure that I get the ball if it's in, then I will call it out verbally. Same with a serve. If I return it, then I use a verbal call. I used to point for every 'out' ball, but I found that a lot of servers would play the returned ball.

Cindysphinx
12-23-2009, 05:54 AM
Had a pro in a beginner clinic once say: "The closer the ball, the clearer the call."

So if the ball is barely out, then an audible and visual call are needed. If the ball is way out, the finger is fine. Screaming **OUT!!** for a ball that flies into the side curtain is a bit too cute, IMHO.

Also, I give an audible call if I am planning on returning the ball. My fingers are kind of busy swinging the racket. :)

athiker
12-23-2009, 06:26 AM
As several have already mentioned, I often use finger only if I do not play the ball back. If I take a swing at the ball b/c my motion was underway I make a verbal call and may also raise my finger when able after the swing. Otherwise it looks a little too much like I might be judging my return shot before I decide on their close shot.

I agree with the quote Cindy posted as well, if its very close and out I will make a verbal call as well as a finger up on a ball I don't play. If it is very close and in though, I may or many not add a verbal, I clearly make the "safe" hand motion as I drag my butt over the retrieve his winner from the fence!

To have someone consistently return the ball and make no verbal call, forcing me to chase their shot to make a play, would get annoying in a hurry...and I actually like to run.

darthpwner
12-23-2009, 05:01 PM
I think players should point the finger AND call it out. That way, only blind and deaf players can argue with you.

OroDeSantoro
12-25-2009, 10:16 AM
yea he should call it. to me you use the "finger method" when your not playing the ball.

I agree, if I play the ball and realize that it was out then I'll make an audible call... it eliminates any confusion and keeps the other player from uselessly chasing down my shot. OP, your opponent is either inconsiderate or mentally deficient for not recognizing the problem he's causing

OroDeSantoro
12-25-2009, 10:20 AM
I use the finger when I don't return the ball. Most of the time my opponent knows that it's out, so I'm just making it official. I feel that it's nicer than yelling "OUT" or something. I played this guy that would yell "BACK" everytime my ball was out. Yeah, I know it's out, and I'm not deaf. It seemed like he was trying a cheap mental strategy that was more annoying than anything else.

If the ball is close to the line, and I hit it because I want to make sure that I get the ball if it's in, then I will call it out verbally. Same with a serve. If I return it, then I use a verbal call. I used to point for every 'out' ball, but I found that a lot of servers would play the returned ball.

Well at least he's clear with his calls by saying "back". I doubt he intended to get in your head, but it sure seems like he did :mrgreen:

kelawai
12-27-2009, 07:49 AM
I agree, if I play the ball and realize that it was out then I'll make an audible call... it eliminates any confusion and keeps the other player from uselessly chasing down my shot. OP, your opponent is either inconsiderate or mentally deficient for not recognizing the problem he's causing

No, my opponent does not have any side effects. Maybe he thought he is a Pro. I played a few, who never say one word except when they questioning my call. When I asked if my shot was too deep, all I got is finger gesture.

These people expect you should know when your shot is out. Even by inches.

Fedace
12-27-2009, 08:02 AM
Tell him... i want you to call the ball out by yelling "OUT" Please,,,Sir...

OroDeSantoro
12-27-2009, 10:23 AM
No, my opponent does not have any side effects. Maybe he thought he is a Pro. I played a few, who never say one word except when they questioning my call. When I asked if my shot was too deep, all I got is finger gesture.

These people expect you should know when your shot is out. Even by inches.

Ridiculous... tell him to bring his chair umpire with him next time. I play a lot of arrogant D1 players and even they have the consideration to make calls when it's somewhat close to the line

Panic492
01-02-2010, 04:24 PM
Maybe I am old school but "the finger" is appropriate for a call in my book for most calls. In tight calls or calls on the run, I give a verbal call.

matchmaker
01-02-2010, 04:54 PM
If it is visible the pointing finger is acceptable IMO. The problem is many people don't even do anything when the ball is out, so you have to guess whether you have to keep on playing or not and what the score exactly is.

DownTheLine
01-02-2010, 05:48 PM
If I don't play the ball I'll call it out by a finger, but if I think it will land in but it doesn't and I hit it I'll verbally call "Out".

Larrysümmers
01-03-2010, 10:00 AM
this is what I do. If it's close I call out and raise a finger. If it's not close just a finger. And if I think its going to be in and I hit it but it was out. I say out a few times and wave my arms up.

tennis005
01-03-2010, 03:58 PM
If my opponents ball lands out, I usually just raise my finger. If they ask, I just tell them it was out. If they say it was a late call and they take the point, I will shout "out" as loud as I can for all their out balls for the rest of the game to mess with them.

Redvd8
01-03-2010, 05:47 PM
^^^^^^ very nice idea, I also do that

SFrazeur
01-03-2010, 05:55 PM
I have a pet peeve against the "finger method." In fact I hate it with a passion. How difficult is a clearly audible "Out."

-SF

SFrazeur
01-03-2010, 05:58 PM
If my opponents ball lands out, I usually just raise my finger. If they ask, I just tell them it was out. If they say it was a late call and they take the point, I will shout "out" as loud as I can for all their out balls for the rest of the game to mess with them.

^^^^^^ very nice idea, I also do that

They have no right to take the point. The ball lands on your side then it's your call. Possibly getting yourself upset trying to "mess" with someone who's breaking the rules is not really the best thing you can do for yourself.

-SF

Jonny S&V
01-03-2010, 06:10 PM
If the ball is CLEARLY out, I just shake my head or say nothing at all. If the ball is within a foot of the line, I raise the finger. If the ball is relatively close but still clearly out, I raise the finger and say "Out/No."

precision2b
01-04-2010, 09:53 AM
i find holding up the middle finger is not advised. in my experiences anyway.

LOL!!!

I use the finger when I don't return the ball. Most of the time my opponent knows that it's out, so I'm just making it official. I feel that it's nicer than yelling "OUT" or something. I played this guy that would yell "BACK" everytime my ball was out. Yeah, I know it's out, and I'm not deaf. It seemed like he was trying a cheap mental strategy that was more annoying than anything else.

If the ball is close to the line, and I hit it because I want to make sure that I get the ball if it's in, then I will call it out verbally. Same with a serve. If I return it, then I use a verbal call. I used to point for every 'out' ball, but I found that a lot of servers would play the returned ball.

I agree...

Had a pro in a beginner clinic once say: "The closer the ball, the clearer the call."

So if the ball is barely out, then an audible and visual call are needed. If the ball is way out, the finger is fine. Screaming **OUT!!** for a ball that flies into the side curtain is a bit too cute, IMHO.

Also, I give an audible call if I am planning on returning the ball. My fingers are kind of busy swinging the racket. :)

I agree, yet i play some that will scream out no matter how far the ball was out. I guess they want everyone to know they won the point....:roll:

VeryVolkl
01-04-2010, 10:23 AM
I tend to signal with my finger and catch the ball/not play it. I don't know when I started doing this, but I know it was after playing against or watching people who seem use the "out" call as gamesmanship. In other words, they don't say out, but rather things like "bad," "way back," "you missed it." I'd rather lose than be thought of as a poor sport.

Spokewench
01-04-2010, 02:49 PM
I have a pet peeve against the "finger method." In fact I hate it with a passion. How difficult is a clearly audible "Out."

-SF

When you play indoors - it actually is very had to call an audible "out". Lots of noise bouncing off of walls, fans for heaters, etc. It makes it very hard. So, I usually call audibles, but sometimes, people just can't hear so we use the finger inside to show it as well.

mikeler
01-05-2010, 04:42 AM
I tend to signal with my finger and catch the ball/not play it. I don't know when I started doing this, but I know it was after playing against or watching people who seem use the "out" call as gamesmanship. In other words, they don't say out, but rather things like "bad," "way back," "you missed it." I'd rather lose than be thought of as a poor sport.


Just don't catch the ball in a tournament. The opponent may claim the point.

ALten1
01-05-2010, 09:52 AM
at state a guy on the court backed up to our opponents yelled "out" at a time when a deep ball we hit bounced close to the line on our opponents side. They played the ball and we let it go by us thinking it was them saying the ball was out. They looked at us funny, we explained and they graciously played the point over.

Also, I got in a bad habit of holding my arm up about chest high with my index finger at about 45 degrees upward while tracking balls that are going to be close to the line. They land in but opponents think I am calling it out. Bad habit I am working on.

Cindysphinx
01-05-2010, 01:29 PM
Also, I got in a bad habit of holding my arm up about chest high with my index finger at about 45 degrees upward while tracking balls that are going to be close to the line. They land in but opponents think I am calling it out. Bad habit I am working on.

I can't visualize this at all. Opponent is about to hit ball. You are holding your racket, one hand on grip and one hand at net. Or maybe both hands on grip. And you take one hand off to point at the ball as it whips by you? I must be confused. . . .

Dino Lagaffe
01-05-2010, 01:32 PM
I have a pet peeve against the "finger method." In fact I hate it with a passion. How difficult is a clearly audible "Out."

-SF
...............

+1

kylebarendrick
01-05-2010, 02:36 PM
Per the Code:

15. Audible or visible calls. No matter how obvious it is to a player that the
opponent’s ball is out, the opponent is entitled to a prompt audible or visible out
call

Based on this I'd say that hand signals are an acceptable way to make calls.

PatrickB
01-06-2010, 07:02 AM
Indeed they are and if a player doesn't call the ball out promptly, their opponent can claim the point as their own. As others have said, the closer the ball is to the line, the louder or more visible the call needs to be. For a ball a foot and a half out, a small hand gesture is sufficient; for a ball a centimeter and a half out, a clear gesture and an audible call is appropriate. This point is in fact part of the standard spiel I give to players at the net when I referee a match.

Cindysphinx
01-06-2010, 07:04 AM
Uh oh. How prompt is "prompt?"

SFrazeur
01-15-2010, 06:57 AM
Per the Code:



Based on this I'd say that hand signals are an acceptable way to make calls.

That doesn't mean I have to like it or that I cannot hate it with a passion.

-SF

tennytive
01-15-2010, 07:22 AM
Based on this I'd say that hand signals are an acceptable way to make calls.

Bingo!

Try playing outside in the middle of 12 courts with the wind in your face and a plane overhead, and see if you can be heard from behind the baseline. :smile:

Sometimes there's just too much noise to be heard and the hand signal back up is needed.

JavierLW
01-15-2010, 07:50 AM
The finger method is fine.

Just like you can "low talk" and become unclear when you actually say "out", you can do the same with the finger, so I think the important thing if you use this method is to be clear about it.

So extending your arm out with your finger extended is preferable to just sticking a finger up that nobody is going to notice. It's kind of like the fair catch rule in football, you should be clear about it.

Confusion happens a lot because people are way to subtle about it. Your opponents are probably tracking the ball, not staring at you so you if you dont make a clear gesture they will miss it. (and they may get mad because you'll have to speak up and correct them that you called it out)

SlapShot
01-15-2010, 07:53 AM
Bingo!

Try playing outside in the middle of 12 courts with the wind in your face and a plane overhead, and see if you can be heard from behind the baseline. :smile:

Sometimes there's just too much noise to be heard and the hand signal back up is needed.

Agree.

I play indoor 75% of the year, and it's noisy there. If the ball is clearly long, it's just the pointer finger, possibly accompanied by "Nope." If it's closer, it'll be a clearer call (as Cindy said) - usually "Deep" "Back" or "Out".

Tennisman912
01-15-2010, 10:42 AM
Kelawai,

All I can suggest is get used to it. Almost all advanced players I know use a lot of hand signals. They are pretty cut and dry and should not be a problem for you. I actually like them as many people don’t call out loud enough, especially indoors. Also, as you gain more experience, you will know at impact if your shot will be in or will be close. You just have to get used to it.

Watch a college tennis match online. You will see many more hand signals than out calls.

Best of luck

TM

West Coast Ace
01-15-2010, 03:32 PM
i find holding up the middle finger is not advised. in my experiences anyway.Very good advice. Almost as nice as your avatar.

...Usually you only need to check the opponents body language if you "feel" your shot is about to be out or if its going to land pretty closeWas thinking the same thing. OP doesn't state his level of play - if it's lower he may not have developed that feel yet.

I usually use both the index finger and the vocal out call just in case, so there is no question I'm calling it out. That's what I try to do. Just like a linesperson. Call then arm/finger up.

kelawai
01-16-2010, 12:12 AM
Kelawai,

All I can suggest is get used to it. Almost all advanced players I know use a lot of hand signals. They are pretty cut and dry and should not be a problem for you. I actually like them as many people don’t call out loud enough, especially indoors. Also, as you gain more experience, you will know at impact if your shot will be in or will be close. You just have to get used to it.

Watch a college tennis match online. You will see many more hand signals than out calls.

Best of luck

TM

Tennisman912,
I agree with you and many who left comments here. I do the same things giving hand signals when obvious out. But the thing is, when the shot is out by not much, of course I can't tell from my side. the opponent return as it was a good shot. By reading the body language, you can tell the point is in play. When I started to run down the shot and then to realize that he was standing motionless and point with his finger the shot was out. Why can't he hit it into the net and mean the point was over?

PatrickB
01-16-2010, 06:51 AM
Tennisman912,
I agree with you and many who left comments here. I do the same things giving hand signals when obvious out. But the thing is, when the shot is out by not much, of course I can't tell from my side. the opponent return as it was a good shot. By reading the body language, you can tell the point is in play. When I started to run down the shot and then to realize that he was standing motionless and point with his finger the shot was out. Why can't he hit it into the net and mean the point was over?

Because he's being asked to watch the ball, watch the line, play the ball, and call the ball all at the same time. On a close ball, he may have to start his swing as the ball is bouncing, so it's not always possible to not return a close out ball.

Tennisman912
01-16-2010, 09:17 PM
Kelawai,

Patrick is on the money. They are never going to hit it into the net to make it easy for you. On rare occasions when it it very close, he may hit the shot and then call it out. You just have to watch and always be ready to play on no matter what. As a rule, advanced players will call it out as soon as they are sure it is out. If they hit, hesitate and then call it out, then that is pretty suspect IMHO. As a general rule, advanced players will give you the benefit of the doubt. Only hacks will try to take advantage of waiting to see if it is a good shot before calling it out. Just because they may do it, doesn't mean you need to follow suit (or should). Sometimes, at the pace of advanced play, they will hit it and then immediately call it out. Why? Because an advanced player shot is going to be very close to the line. You don't have time to just hit it into the net and have to play it until you see it as clearly long.

Just remember, it is live until called or pointed out otherwise. Just one of many adjustments as you move up the ladder. In practice, you will get the gist pretty quickly.

Good tennis

TM