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larry10s
12-25-2009, 02:38 AM
Roscoe is a teaching pro at my club. i asked him yesterday what he thought his serve speed would be using todays equipment. his answer surprised me. for the record he was clocked at 153 mph. he did noy think there would be a difference and this was his reasons why.
he stated that after wood rackets the racquet he used had similar "silouette" to the modern ones . ie aerodynamically similar. the radar gun measures the speed of the ball off the raqcquet (at contact). so if you could generate the racquet speed even with a heavier racquet the speeds would be the same."its all racquet head speed".
also he believes the white ball used then had a different felt cover and the rubber core was livelier than the balls today. so a slower modern ball would have an impact
lastly he told me that Phillipousus noted for his big serve was measured using older racquets and his modern raquet and the difference in top speed on the serves was ONE mile per hour!!!

tennis_balla
12-25-2009, 03:01 AM
Yea he's right, but keep in mind even though the top speed of the serves hasn't changed much and yea you can argue today's pros work out more and are physically more fit, the difference is that back then you could basically only hit a hard serve down the T or a flat serve. Nowadays guys are serving 120+ out wide on the deuce court for example, with spin. Thats a big difference, couldn't do that with wooden rackets or even some of the smaller frames of the 80's. So the big difference really is that now you can hit more serves at a higher speed and with spin then before. That makes it more challenging for the returner.

chess9
12-25-2009, 03:48 AM
How hard does Tanner serve today? He's, what, about 50?

Good to see him teaching tennis. He was one of my favorite players when he was younger.

-Robert

julian
12-25-2009, 05:58 AM
Roscoe is a teaching pro at my club. i asked him yesterday what he thought his serve speed would be using todays equipment. his answer surprised me. for the record he was clocked at 153 mph. he did noy think there would be a difference and this was his reasons why.
he stated that after wood rackets the racquet he used had similar "silouette" to the modern ones . ie aerodynamically similar. the radar gun measures the speed of the ball off the raqcquet (at contact). so if you could generate the racquet speed even with a heavier racquet the speeds would be the same."its all racquet head speed".
also he believes the white ball used then had a different felt cover and the rubber core was livelier than the balls today. so a slower modern ball would have an impact
lastly he told me that Phillipousus noted for his big serve was measured using older racquets and his modern raquet and the difference in top speed on the serves was ONE mile per hour!!!

He was always an example of a player using very low toss.
An interesting question is whether he teaches a serve with such a low toss.

5263
12-25-2009, 06:54 AM
Yea he's right, but keep in mind even though the top speed of the serves hasn't changed much and yea you can argue today's pros work out more and are physically more fit, the difference is that back then you could basically only hit a hard serve down the T or a flat serve. Nowadays guys are serving 120+ out wide on the deuce court for example, with spin. Thats a big difference, couldn't do that with wooden rackets or even some of the smaller frames of the 80's. So the big difference really is that now you can hit more serves at a higher speed and with spin then before. That makes it more challenging for the returner.

I agree with you excellent observation about serve spin, but think that most of the difference in out wide serve speeds has to do with better measurement set ups. Down the T was fastest on the old systems due to best alignment with the radar, not that wider serves could not be hit as hard. More severe wide angles have been opened up to more speed due to greater spin though; just as you mentioned.

gzhpcu
12-25-2009, 07:04 AM
Wow, larry, lucky to have him as teaching pro at your club. Merry Christmas, by the way... :)

LeeD
12-25-2009, 07:35 AM
Nice in some ways, Roscoe believes the same things that I do...service speed not much difference...my take, sweetspot was higher in the old rackets.
But Phil was a giant of a man, as was Amaya, and both could serve with a pingpong paddle and still serve fast. Both were 6'5" PLUS, and well around 2 for Phil and easy 210 for Amaya(Victor).
And don't forget, ColinDibley, on a non stock DunlopMaxPly, hit over 149mph back in 1978. He was known by everyone to have the biggest serve.

larry10s
12-25-2009, 08:22 AM
by the way roscoe also said he was 6 feet tall ( i think thats what he said)when he played and 170 lbs. that came up on another thread if i recall.

LeeD
12-25-2009, 08:25 AM
Kinda hard to believe that in 1977, he could possibly weigh LESS than RaulRameriz. He was about the same height then, had less hair than the picture, and was much wider than RR. I thought Tanner was better earlier than '78, so then he could have been slimmer.
What's he weigh now? Betcha at least 190.

larry10s
12-25-2009, 08:27 AM
He was always an example of a player using very low toss.
An interesting question is whether he teaches a serve with such a low toss.

yes julian the first thing he told me when i took a lesson on my serve was that my toss was too high.surprise surprise.of course i gave him links to sites to watch videos of all the great servers so he could see how high their tosses were:) he did actually look at a bunch of them and then proceeded to tell me how its easier to hit a stationary object so if you hit the ball at the peak thats how you should do it. i wasnt going to argue/discuss it any further.

larry10s
12-25-2009, 08:30 AM
Wow, larry, lucky to have him as teaching pro at your club. Merry Christmas, by the way... :)

its is surreal to have your pro telling you stories like when arthur (ashe) and i played doubles together....... or when i faced connors i had to use this strategy...... etc. gzhpcu Merry Christmas to you too.:)

LeeD
12-25-2009, 08:32 AM
And if you ever get a chance to talk to IvanLendl, he'd tell you all the advantages of a really high toss.
Pros always think they do it the best way. If they didn't, they'd experiment around more.
Tanner's toss worked for him because he'd pull his trigger left arm up early in this motion. Lots of other players choose to use longer, more circular motions, and need more time to get to trophy position.
Tanner's was one continous blurr of motion.

Rambler124
12-25-2009, 11:27 AM
What club does he teach at anyway? My old director used to have some crazy stories about him. Tanner has seen some rough days in his times after his pro career is all I'm gonna say.

julian
12-25-2009, 01:16 PM
http://videovitae.blogspot.com/2009/07/roscoe-tanners-big-serve.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT5mvbTaKeM&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLATEORaB_M&feature=related

and probably a beginning of
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvOJDI0yCvo&feature=related

I apologize for some Germany commentary of BBC News

Mike Cottrill
12-25-2009, 01:34 PM
Is he out of jail again? Or, is the club a fancy name for jail lol

VaBeachTennis
12-25-2009, 02:42 PM
Is he out of jail again? Or, is the club a fancy name for jail lol

LOL, that was a pretty cheap shot. People make mistakes, maybe he learned from his and is trying to better himself.

larry10s
12-25-2009, 03:01 PM
the club is in vero beach florida called the boulevard
http://www.blvdtennis.com/Welcome.html
michael pernfors also lives here and teaches here

larry10s
12-25-2009, 03:04 PM
Is he out of jail again? Or, is the club a fancy name for jail lol

fairly pitifull comments. his past is is past . if you see how he protects his daughter and loves her you would see he is not the the check passing persohe was. michael vick in my opinion did much worse things and he got a second chance ( at 1 million a year)

Geezer Guy
12-25-2009, 03:07 PM
Do you live there? If so, do you like it?

I was thinking about moving there, but we're thinking about going a bit further south. And on the Gulf side.

larry10s
12-25-2009, 03:24 PM
pm me at larry10s @yahoo.com and we can talk about it. no i dont live at the club but nearby and for the lifestyle vero beach is second to none:)

larry10s
12-25-2009, 03:26 PM
Do you live there? If so, do you like it?

I was thinking about moving there, but we're thinking about going a bit further south. And on the Gulf side.

the gulf side verus the ocean side has its own pros and con . if you tell me the lifestyle you are looking for i can hopefully steer yiou in the right direction

Geezer Guy
12-25-2009, 03:45 PM
the gulf side verus the ocean side has its own pros and con . if you tell me the lifestyle you are looking for i can hopefully steer yiou in the right direction

Main thing for me, playing lots of tennis. I'm a low-to-middin' 4.0 that prefers mostly singles, but will occasionally play men's doubles. My wife would like to live near the ocean. We want a house & pool - not a condo. We do NOT like to be cold in the winter. We're both pretty active, like to dine out and have a good time. Neither of us are into 'high society' type stuff. Just regular folks. We both have a fairly wide circle of friends and acquaintences, most of which are younger than us. We're retired, in our early 50's.

Jagman
12-25-2009, 03:45 PM
Yes, Roscoe Tanner had certainly fallen on hard times there for a while. Still, watching him in his heyday provided me with many hours of quality tennis entertainment. He was a good player in his day and that serve was something to see. I, for one, wish him all the best for the present and coming year.

Thanks, Larry, for sharing that anecdote. A very interesting perspective on the serve from a man whose opinion on that subject, whether you agree with him or not, should command attention :).

Mike Cottrill
12-25-2009, 03:59 PM
fairly pitifull comments. his past is is past . if you see how he protects his daughter and loves her you would see he is not the the check passing persohe was. michael vick in my opinion did much worse things and he got a second chance ( at 1 million a year)

Is this the same child he would not pay child support for?
I surely hope he has hit bottom and on his way back to a respectable citizen.

larry10s
12-25-2009, 04:37 PM
Is this the same child he would not pay child support for?
I surely hope he has hit bottom and on his way back to a respectable citizen.

i dont think so since she is fairly young and hidstroubles were 10-20 years ago???

larry10s
12-25-2009, 04:38 PM
Main thing for me, playing lots of tennis. I'm a low-to-middin' 4.0 that prefers mostly singles, but will occasionally play men's doubles. My wife would like to live near the ocean. We want a house & pool - not a condo. We do NOT like to be cold in the winter. We're both pretty active, like to dine out and have a good time. Neither of us are into 'high society' type stuff. Just regular folks. We both have a fairly wide circle of friends and acquaintences, most of which are younger than us. We're retired, in our early 50's.

the feel of each coast is different . probably best thing is to rent a season in each area to get a feel

athiker
12-25-2009, 05:09 PM
i dont think so since she is fairly young and hidstroubles were 10-20 years ago???

Not really relevant to your interesting info on serving which I enjoyed, but a quick internet search seems to point to much more recent troubles for Mr. Tanner than 10-20 years ago. Here are just a couple:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/132621-blast-from-the-past-tennis-bad-boy-roscoe-tanner

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/roscoe-tanner-c11885.html

I knew nothing of his "issues" until I saw a bit about it on The Tennis Channel just recently. They have various shows like "Top 5 Bad Boys", "Top 5 Chokes", etc...might've been one of those. I have no personal knowledge of him at all.

Geezer Guy
12-25-2009, 07:41 PM
the gulf side verus the ocean side has its own pros and con . if you tell me the lifestyle you are looking for i can hopefully steer yiou in the right direction

blah blah blah...

the feel of each coast is different . probably best thing is to rent a season in each area to get a feel

T h a n k s

gzhpcu
12-25-2009, 11:03 PM
the club is in vero beach florida called the boulevard
http://www.blvdtennis.com/Welcome.html
michael pernfors also lives here and teaches here
Man, are you a lucky guy Larry! :shock: