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View Full Version : Are there disadvantages to jogging on a treadmill, rather than out on a track?


MrSandman
12-26-2009, 08:24 PM
A treadmill is what I'm using currently. I feel that, when running outside at the same pace, I can't go for as long as I would on a treadmill.

Cindysphinx
12-26-2009, 09:03 PM
I think it is important to get fresh air when you exercise. No treadmills for me!

maverick66
12-26-2009, 09:11 PM
you use different muscles when you run on a treadmill as your not pushing yourself forward as much as you are up. Its not like its terrible to run on a treadmill but I liked to run outside.

Bud
12-26-2009, 09:25 PM
A treadmill is what I'm using currently. I feel that, when running outside at the same pace, I can't go for as long as I would on a treadmill.

A treadmill has an integrated shock absorption system... so it's probably easier on your legs. Also, depending on where you live, the air you breathe inside may be more healthy than that outside.

volusiano
12-26-2009, 10:30 PM
I started running outside before but after a while, pounding the pavement was too hard on me and I developed some knee pain. So I got a Nordick Track treadmill with the Reflex deck cushioning which is a lot easier on my legs and I'm able to run longer on the treadmill now. If you train just for the cardio and not for a real run, then the treadmill is probably easier on the joints. The other advantage of the treadmill is I can watch TV and don't get bored out of my mind.

chess9
12-27-2009, 04:56 AM
Treadmills are:

1. Softer, thus easier on the legs and joints;
2. Inaccurate, as they don't get calibrated frequently enough;
3. Safe and sometimes convenient. Quite a few of the women I know have been assaulted while out running. (I have a funny story about one of them, and what she did when she was assaulted by one guy.)
4. Not as demanding as running outdoors. No wind, rain, sun, snow, sloping or uneven surfaces, etc. But, with the demands of outdoor running come safety issues. If you have a bum ankle or hip, but still want to run, should you risk running outside where one mis-step could land you in the hospital?
5. Air pollution can be worse outside than inside, and many gyms are paying closer attention to indoor pollutants because customers are asking about them.

Having said all of that, I strongly prefer running outside, particularly trail runs or hill runs.

-Robert

raiden031
12-27-2009, 05:20 AM
Both have their pros and cons of course. A treadmill is definitely a little bit different than running outside, which is why you can't rely solely on a treadmill to train you for a running event, but it certainly will help you build up your endurance and give you a great workout. I think treadmills are better for isolating something such as your pace or the incline because you let the machine control them. I find running outdoors to be easier mentally though because you have the change of scenery. Even with the televisions, I still get bored of treadmills.

Talker
12-27-2009, 07:38 AM
Outside for me. I like to vary speeds, sprint at times, some running on grass.
On the treadmill I have to change speeds constantly for sprints.
Treadmills are good for measuring progress.
I use them both.

El Diablo
12-27-2009, 10:00 AM
Cindy
How is outside air advantageous to inside air when you exercise? Heat and AC in my house have filters, less car/truck fumes and particulates than the air you breathe outside.

Tennis_Monk
12-27-2009, 10:36 AM
Treadmill for me. Its like getting a workout without leaving home.
I dont want to deal with outside stuff--- i can get a workout while it is snowing 12 inches outside.

Moz
12-27-2009, 10:53 AM
Assuming you aren't dealing with 1ft high snowdrifts treadmill training is always less effective than running outside - unless you are training for a treadmill race.

stanfordtennis alum
12-27-2009, 11:22 AM
i personally prefer running outside due to the fresh air and different tracks you can run... treadmills are convenient though especially when it's cold outside

larry10s
12-28-2009, 05:12 AM
Treadmills are:

1. Softer, thus easier on the legs and joints;
2. Inaccurate, as they don't get calibrated frequently enough;
3. Safe and sometimes convenient. Quite a few of the women I know have been assaulted while out running. (I have a funny story about one of them, and what she did when she was assaulted by one guy.)
4. Not as demanding as running outdoors. No wind, rain, sun, snow, sloping or uneven surfaces, etc. But, with the demands of outdoor running come safety issues. If you have a bum ankle or hip, but still want to run, should you risk running outside where one mis-step could land you in the hospital?
5. Air pollution can be worse outside than inside, and many gyms are paying closer attention to indoor pollutants because customers are asking about them.

Having said all of that, I strongly prefer running outside, particularly trail runs or hill runs.

-Robert

i also prefer running outside. running against the wind cant be duplicated on a treadmill. p.s. chess9 could you share that story?

mike53
12-28-2009, 06:52 AM
Almost no chance of getting run over by a car or truck or bicycle on a treadmill. No dogs chasing you. No muggers. Missing all that excitement.

MNPlayer
12-28-2009, 07:40 AM
Cindy
How is outside air advantageous to inside air when you exercise? Heat and AC in my house have filters, less car/truck fumes and particulates than the air you breathe outside.

How are you going to build up resistance to diesel particulates if you don't run outside? :)

I run on the treadmill when its cold and icy outside but it sure is more fun to run outside on a nice day. I just run the risk of pollution and gopher holes.

Cindysphinx
12-28-2009, 08:22 AM
Cindy
How is outside air advantageous to inside air when you exercise? Heat and AC in my house have filters, less car/truck fumes and particulates than the air you breathe outside.

I think houses these days are loaded with pollutants. Carpet glues, fabric dyes, mold, all kinds of crappy chemicals, dust, pet dander. Blech. I used to have asthma. Since I started exercising outside, no more asthma.

If the outside air is so filled with toxins as people think, I highly doubt the lame filters on an HVAC system will protect you.

Listen to the birds. Smell the flowers. See the wildlife. Wave to your fellow joggers. Enjoy the variety in terrain. To me, it's well worth the additional risks.

mark999
12-28-2009, 12:43 PM
on page 10 of the spanish RPT discussion they have some good links to treadmill workouts. much better than just running.

BreakPoint
12-28-2009, 06:19 PM
Almost no chance of getting run over by a car or truck or bicycle on a treadmill. No dogs chasing you. No muggers. Missing all that excitement.
But you could trip, stumble, or slow down too much and get thrown off of the treadmill. :shock: It's never happened to me but I always fear that it might one day.

With that said, I enjoy running both outside and on treadmills. Outside for the fresh air and scenery, and on treadmills for the controlled environment and less stress on the knees.

ET Brit
12-29-2009, 03:18 AM
But you could trip, stumble, or slow down too much and get thrown off of the treadmill. :shock: It's never happened to me but I always fear that it might one day.

With that said, I enjoy running both outside and on treadmills. Outside for the fresh air and scenery, and on treadmills for the controlled environment and less stress on the knees.

Most treadmills have a safety key, but I suppose some runners would think that's for beginners. It would still save you from serious injury if you had a minor heart attack, or such. An acquaintance of mine died as a consequence of injuries caused by being thrown off her treadmill, so I have no qualms about using the safety key. :roll:

Happy Tuesday - Ann

mike53
12-29-2009, 07:04 AM
But you could trip, stumble, or slow down too much and get thrown off of the treadmill. :shock: It's never happened to me but I always fear that it might one day.


Sure, but in the back of your mind, you know you probably won't die a painful death. Running across a street with a large truck or bus accelerating right at you produces a special adrenalin mix you just can't get inside on a treadmill. Especially on wet or snow covered roads with marginal visibility.

And don't forget 25 degree temperatures with 30mph wind gusts. You can't suffer that on a treadmill.

BreakPoint
12-29-2009, 04:45 PM
And don't forget 25 degree temperatures with 30mph wind gusts. You can't suffer that on a treadmill.
I live in California. I don't suffer that outside, either. :)

BreakPoint
12-29-2009, 04:47 PM
Most treadmills have a safety key, but I suppose some runners would think that's for beginners. It would still save you from serious injury if you had a minor heart attack, or such. An acquaintance of mine died as a consequence of injuries caused by being thrown off her treadmill, so I have no qualms about using the safety key. :roll:

Happy Tuesday - Ann
Sorry to hear about your acquaintance.

Yeah, I don't use that key thing because, well, as a guy, I think it's too sissy. Men are about taking risk and being macho, remember? ;)

dak95_00
12-29-2009, 07:28 PM
Track:

The oval never changes. You get the wind w/ you and against you equally. It's great for speed work whether you use time or distance but better for the latter. It's boring for distance work. You must dress for the weather.

Treadmill:

The direction never changes. You have no weather elements. It can also be great for speed workouts whether you use time or distance. Most can change the incline to simulate hills for a variable workout. You can run on them naked if you own your own and you live alone or your family doesn't mind. I've run in just my underwear. I've never done that outside as I rarely take my shirt off but I do wear the shorter shorts at times.:)

I prefer to run on trails outside w/ people. If I run on a treadmill, I better have a specific goal in mind or I lose my focus. That goal needs to be a time, distance, or combination. I also use a treadmill when I fit running workouts in at odd times or in bad weather when I just don't feel like spending a 1/2 an hour dressing/undressing just to get a 1/2 hour workout in.

FastFreddy
12-29-2009, 07:28 PM
I been running inside since 2003 and I can tell you it is much safer to run on than running outside. I am in sunny socal but there are as many traffic lights as NYC. That alone with kill your workout. Plus dogs not on leash also running on a treadmill is softer on your joints. Outside you will run to slow undertrain or run to fast overtrain.

With the treadmill you just lock in your speed that's it Then there is always someone trying to race you while you are getting in your marathon training. Rain or shine the treadmill is ready to go plus I can watch tv sports to keep myself going. The air inside is better than the air from the cars even in the early morning.

Plus if something comes up I can cut my workout short and take care of something right away instead of being stuck out 5 miles from my house. The only problem with a treadmill is cost a good one studio one will cost 5k and a health club top of the line can cost 9k. So it's best to join a gym so you have you pick of 25 treadmills in case one of breaks down. Plus where I live there are to many hills running up is fine but the downhills kill my knee. Since I been on a treadmill knock on wood no back or knee problems. Just get new shoes every 3 months.

Moz
12-30-2009, 11:20 AM
Well this has descended into what people prefer!

Running on the treadmill is different biomechanically than outside and the even surface means that your proprioception never gets developed. Most treadmills are in dire need of calibration so the speed they show means nothing anyway.

Treadmills are fine for the aerobic workout but they don't prepare you for outside running. If you do speedwork on a treadmill you have to be conscious of the fact you are providing aerobic stress but not precise biomechanical stress.

If you train for outdoor races on a treadmill but you have the choice of running outside then more fool you.

Moz
12-30-2009, 11:22 AM
Track:

You get the wind w/ you and against you equally.

The energy cost of running against the wind is about twice the benefit you get from a tailwind. But I take your point.

raiden031
12-30-2009, 11:51 AM
Well this has descended into what people prefer!

Running on the treadmill is different biomechanically than outside and the even surface means that your proprioception never gets developed. Most treadmills are in dire need of calibration so the speed they show means nothing anyway.

Treadmills are fine for the aerobic workout but they don't prepare you for outside running. If you do speedwork on a treadmill you have to be conscious of the fact you are providing aerobic stress but not precise biomechanical stress.

If you train for outdoor races on a treadmill but you have the choice of running outside then more fool you.

Interestingly when I trained for my first half marathon 2 years ago, I did almost all of my training on a treadmill. Prior to this event, the longest run I'd ever done in my life was 6 miles. Granted, I was already physically fit, but not used to long runs at all. My pace didn't change much from training, but my ability to sustain my pace for longer distance changed alot. For instance, I could always run 1-3 miles at a 8min/mile pace, but would wear out after that.

On my treadmill runs, I would vary from 7:30 to 8:30, depending on how long the run was.

On race day, I ran the half marathon at a 7:56 pace. So in my case the treadmill prepared me pretty well for the race, especially given that the course (Baltimore city) is considered very hilly.

I think what was imortant was that I always ran on the treadmill with a slight incline (varying from 1-2%). I would even say you could assume your mile-pace will be 30 seconds slower than what is listed on the treadmill screen. But it still seemed to work pretty well for me.

FastFreddy
12-30-2009, 03:51 PM
Well this has descended into what people prefer!

Running on the treadmill is different biomechanically than outside and the even surface means that your proprioception never gets developed. Most treadmills are in dire need of calibration so the speed they show means nothing anyway.

Treadmills are fine for the aerobic workout but they don't prepare you for outside running. If you do speedwork on a treadmill you have to be conscious of the fact you are providing aerobic stress but not precise biomechanical stress.

If you train for outdoor races on a treadmill but you have the choice of running outside then more fool you.

If you are a pure runner like yourself you will hate treadmills. Also like you said the runners stride is different biomechanically. Running on a treadmill is like running outside in a major headwind stay low. I been working in health clubs and gyms for 20 years and running on treadmills since 2003. I never had anyone say this treadmill needs a calibration. I even done a long run of 16 miles for a marathon on a treadmill.

I run 7.5 miles in one hour everyday 6 days a week, no speed work, no more long runs 3 weeks before the marathon and only rest the day before and ran 3:09. So I ran faster in the race 8.3 than my 7.5 training pace. Plus I wore a 3 liter cammelback with poweraide 10 pounds with gateraide and popped a gel every 4 miles. So I don't think running outside makes a faster runner.

Also I didn't use any grade with my treadmill training. I averaged 156hr for the race. I sprinted up the uphills and downhills at 178-183hr to run a faster time.I had one bathroom break during the race because I drank a big coffee 30 mins before the race. But I did all my training without coffee all year. The next year I trained 7 days a week at 7.5 miles phr and averaged 162 hr during the race and ran just under 3hrs not bad for 205lbs 7.3 percent bodyfat. Since my first marathon I stopped doing a long run 16-18 miles 3 weeks before the race. Since now I know I can run the distance and save my energy for the race day. Now since my treadmill training is getting boring I raised my speed to 8.5mph for one hr 7 days a week. I been running everyday since January 1st 2007. # years of running everyday I never felt for fit running is great.

MomentumGT
12-30-2009, 04:10 PM
An acquaintance of mine, who is a personal trainer at one of those swanky health spas, said if you want to get the same work out from running out doors on 'flat' ground on a treadmill you have to raise the speed 2 levels up from your normal speed and raise the incline 3 levels from flat 0. Dunno if that is true but it seams to 'feel' close to the same workout.

-Jon

raiden031
12-30-2009, 04:44 PM
An acquaintance of mine, who is a personal trainer at one of those swanky health spas, said if you want to get the same work out from running out doors on 'flat' ground on a treadmill you have to raise the speed 2 levels up from your normal speed and raise the incline 3 levels from flat 0. Dunno if that is true but it seams to 'feel' close to the same workout.

-Jon

When I run on a treadmill in a flat position, I almost feel like I'm running downhill when compared to running outside. That little added incline balances out that feeling by making me do more of the work myself.

Swagger
12-30-2009, 06:43 PM
I agree with everyone, running outside is better. If I don't feel like going out (or parents won't let me leave), I'll hop on the treadmill.

With the treadmill, you run at a set speed for the whole time. When I run outside, I vary it a lot, so I end up slacking off.

WildVolley
12-30-2009, 07:00 PM
For those of us who don't like to jog, a treadmill really limits how fast you can go. I mostly do sprints as training for tennis.

Moz
01-01-2010, 12:57 PM
I been working in health clubs and gyms for 20 years and running on treadmills since 2003. I never had anyone say this treadmill needs a calibration.


No one said it does need it because it's difficult to know whether it does when you're running on it. The gym should calibrate them all regularly as a matter of course. But most don't bother.


I run 7.5 miles in one hour everyday 6 days a week, no speed work, no more long runs 3 weeks before the marathon and only rest the day before and ran 3:09. So I ran faster in the race 8.3 than my 7.5 training pace. Plus I wore a 3 liter cammelback with poweraide 10 pounds with gateraide and popped a gel every 4 miles. So I don't think running outside makes a faster runner.


Your anecdotal story doesn't address the very obvious possibility that you would have run quicker if you'd trained outside. It proves nothing about the efficacy of the treadmill training.


I sprinted up the uphills and downhills at 178-183hr to run a faster time.

You would have run a quicker time if you'd concentrated on even effort - which is far better for a marathon than even pace and certainly better than variable pace.

Topaz
01-01-2010, 01:35 PM
If you train for outdoor races on a treadmill but you have the choice of running outside then more fool you.

This was my experience in my first race (a 5k) that I ever ran. I did all of my training on a treadmill, and when I got to the race (which, of course, was outside) I did far worse than I expected.

As far as personal preference, I *hate* dreadmills. I'm not a hamster, and I find them horrendously boring. I much prefer running outdoors where you not only get more of a workout from the elements, but it is much more interesting!

10ispro
01-01-2010, 04:17 PM
Treadmills can cause runners to change their running gate as well which can put pressure on the knees and other joints. this is especially true for women.

VetoRight
01-02-2010, 04:43 PM
IF you want running on purpose , treadmill is the best. You can do cardio program, weightloose program, glute program etc.
N if you have resolution 500 cal a day, so the answer is treadmil, you can't count if you do running outside.

So, i did 4-5 times aweek on treadmill, and maybe only max once a week outside on saturday or sunday morning.

Topaz
01-02-2010, 05:28 PM
IF you want running on purpose , treadmill is the best. You can do cardio program, weightloose program, glute program etc.
N if you have resolution 500 cal a day, so the answer is treadmil, you can't count if you do running outside.

So, i did 4-5 times aweek on treadmill, and maybe only max once a week outside on saturday or sunday morning.

If you have a resolution of 500 calories a day, you would achieve that much easier running outside, where you are not assisted in any way by the treadmill. You could do hills and sprints to work glutes (like Olympic sprinters do, and their glutes are pretty....uhhh...*nice*), you can definitely do a weight LOSS program, and well, the cardio is a given whether you are inside or outside.

Calorie counters on any cardio machine are not particularly accurate, even when you put in your weight, so don't be fooled by those often generous numbers.

MrSandman
01-02-2010, 06:53 PM
you use different muscles when you run on a treadmill as your not pushing yourself forward as much as you are up. Its not like its terrible to run on a treadmill but I liked to run outside.

That makes sense to why I'd get tired faster, even if running at the same pace.

Well this has descended into what people prefer!

I certainly don't mind it. It just shows that many treadmill disadvantages are based on opinion.


Yeah, I don't use that key thing because, well, as a guy, I think it's too sissy. Men are about taking risk and being macho, remember? ;)

Well, the thing is, I am a sissy. The reason I prefer Tennis over other sports is because there's no physically contact between players. But if avoiding getting hurt and hurting others makes me a sissy, then I am proud of it :).

on page 10 of the spanish RPT discussion they have some good links to treadmill workouts. much better than just running.

Thanks, these workouts really kept things interesting. Terrifyingly difficult at first, but once you get the hang of them they are only somewhat scary.


I immensely enjoyed reading every post in this thread. I'm glad it didn't boil down to a TM versus Running war. Most forums I've seen usually aren't mature enough to hold an organized debate, with both sides often resorting to spouting incomprehensible internet jargon and personal insults. I'm highly impressed by the maturity of this forum.

MrSandman
01-02-2010, 06:58 PM
Also, forgive me for double posting/going of topic, but does anyone know good Resistance Band exercises for training Fast Twitch Muscle fibers (isometrics, I think it's called)?

FastFreddy
01-02-2010, 07:55 PM
No one said it does need it because it's difficult to know whether it does when you're running on it. The gym should calibrate them all regularly as a matter of course. But most don't bother.




Your anecdotal story doesn't address the very obvious possibility that you would have run quicker if you'd trained outside. It proves nothing about the efficacy of the treadmill training.



You would have run a quicker time if you'd concentrated on even effort - which is far better for a marathon than even pace and certainly better than variable pace.



Well first in my 20 years of working in health clubs and gyms I have trained a few marathon runners in my time and not one never said hey that treadmill is to slow or fast. Also not one gym member told me that or a worker who fixes them. I seen them need to replace or tighten a belt or change a motor. As far as my story goes I am not saying running inside is faster than outside. All I am saying that you can run just as fast inside. In my seven years running on many different treadmills I can say I could never tell if it was off even a little.

As for my effort I keep my hr average between 156-162 for the race which is even. 162 is the highest average I can do for 3hrs of running or cycling. With my cycling backround I am use to cranking it up on the hills and use to going downhill fast. The only way I could have run faster I would need to run the first half faster looking at my time splits.

For me I run for fun so its not worth blowing up at mile 20 to run a few mins faster. I could run faster if I got down to 185. My friend told me run the first half a little under pace then if you feel good at the halfway point then speed up the 2nd half. She looked at my time splits and said t looked like you used the first half to warm up. I know your a hardcore runner and will never help treadmills. Hell Lance Armstrong can't even run on one for one hour but can ride a bike for 6hrs plus. It's boring but tv works for me no music. I run for fitness and health and it helps with tennis fitness.

VetoRight
01-03-2010, 01:46 AM
If you have a resolution of 500 calories a day, you would achieve that much easier running outside, where you are not assisted in any way by the treadmill. You could do hills and sprints to work glutes (like Olympic sprinters do, and their glutes are pretty....uhhh...*nice*), you can definitely do a weight LOSS program, and well, the cardio is a given whether you are inside or outside.

Calorie counters on any cardio machine are not particularly accurate, even when you put in your weight, so don't be fooled by those often generous numbers.

Yes, you can get all the treadmill advantages by running outside. But it is more difficult and uncertain.

But by using thousands dollar treadmill machine, n the program i believe has been proven on their research. The result of our purpose would be achieved efficiently n easily.

Resolution 500 cals a day, how do you achieve it precisely by jogging outside? But it can be achieved precisely easily using treadmill machine.

The same case with glute program, the treadmill machine has made the program that i believe the effectivity has been test on their lab.

Weight loose program, how can you maintain your heartbeat on 124beats/min by jogging outside, but treadmill has sensor to make it easily. So if your heartbeat is too fast. you can change the speed or the incline.

Same case with cardio program that required heartbeat 152 beats/min.

So, i prefer join the fitness centre that having sophisticated treadmill if you want running on purpose.

Topaz
01-03-2010, 05:42 AM
Yes, you can get all the treadmill advantages by running outside. But it is more difficult and uncertain.

But by using thousands dollar treadmill machine, n the program i believe has been proven on their research. The result of our purpose would be achieved efficiently n easily.

It is also easily achieved running outside. I'm not saying you can't do it on a treadmill, but you can also achieve these things running outside. With some experience, it is not more difficult or uncertain.

Resolution 500 cals a day, how do you achieve it precisely by jogging outside? But it can be achieved precisely easily using treadmill machine.

The same case with glute program, the treadmill machine has made the program that i believe the effectivity has been test on their lab.

Weight loose program, how can you maintain your heartbeat on 124beats/min by jogging outside, but treadmill has sensor to make it easily. So if your heartbeat is too fast. you can change the speed or the incline.

Same case with cardio program that required heartbeat 152 beats/min.

So, i prefer join the fitness centre that having sophisticated treadmill if you want running on purpose.

1. If I want to burn 500 calories, I run 5 miles. Easy. Or, I cut out 250 calories of food, and burn 250 with exercise. Or any combination of the two. I use a FREE online calorie counter to track these things, and I've run long enough that I know my basic calorie burns.

2. If I want to achieve a certain heart rate, I take my own rate for 10 seconds and multiply by 6. Easy and EXACT.

3. If I want to work on my glutes, I sprint up a hill or just plan out a more hilly route that day. Very effective. Or I do some other move...such as walking lunges...that target glutes much more effectively than running.

That's fine that you prefer the machines, but again, you can achieve all those goals you stated by running outside as well.

And it is weight LOSS, not loose.

And...to derail a bit...if those are truly your goals (weight loss, glutes, and cardio) running is actually not the most effective way to achieve those things (inside or outside). Look into the benefits of strength training for fat burning as compared to steady state cardio (lots of sports medicine research on this, just try google or look up some posts by the poster Ano).

Topaz
01-03-2010, 06:03 AM
Food for thought...some interesting articles:

http://www.runningplanet.com/training/treadmill-versus-outside-running.html

The primary differences are the lack of wind resistance on the treadmill, the flat, unchanging surface of the treadmill deck and the effect the moving belt has on your running or walking stride.

...

Studies have estimated that outside air resistance creates an increase in your workload of between 2% and 10%, depending upon your running speed. The faster you run, the more of an effect the air resistance has on you. This problem is very easily overcome by elevating your treadmill to 1% or level 1. The slight incline will make your treadmill workout more equal to running outside on level ground.

*****

http://running.about.com/od/treadmillrunning/f/treadmillrun.htm

*****
http://running.about.com/od/treadmillrunning/f/runcalories.htm

Question: Do I Burn More Calories Running Outside or on a Treadmill?

I've heard that running outside burns more calories than running on a treadmill. Is that true?

Answer: It really depends on how fast you're running. For the average person running at 5 to 9 mph, some research shows that outdoor running burns up to 5 percent more calories, while other studies show no difference. But if you're running at a quick pace -- faster than 10 mph (6 minutes per mile) -- you may be burning up to 10 percent more calories when you run outside.

Running on a treadmill is somewhat easier physically because the ground is being pulled underneath your feet and there's no wind resistance, so that may explain the difference in the amount of calories burned. The faster you run outside, the harder you're working against wind resistance. If you want to better simulate outdoor running conditions on the treadmill, you can set your treadmill at a 1% incline.

Also, keep in mind that those calories burned displayed on treadmills are not accurate. Some reports suggest that treadmills and other cardio machines actually overestimate calories burned by up to 15-20%.



*****

http://www.fitsugar.com/1611176

Studies have also shown that when running on treadmills, we tend to go a bit slower than we would on a track.

...

On the other hand, or should I say foot since we are talking about running, treadmills reduce the incidence of overuse injuries by up to 50 percent.

*****

http://www.hesfit.com/men/comment/running-treadmill-vs-outside/

*****

http://www.examiner.com/x-11960-Indianapolis-Running-Examiner~y2009m6d23-Treadmill-vs-running-outside

The conditions you face when running outside exceed in comparison to running on a treadmill no matter how you try to compensate for them. The biggest advantage to running outside is the wind resistance. Even if there is no wind blowing, you moving around rather than being stationary creates wind resistance, and the faster you run the more wind resistance you encounter. As result, the wind resistance increases your workout intensity. You could incline your treadmill to help make up for wind resistance, but the action of the belt is still aiding the movement of your feet underneath your body. This movement of the feet underneath your body can also have repercussions on your running gait by making you shuffle your feet and shortening your stride.

...

The biggest advantages to running on a treadmill are less impact on your joints and the fact that you can easily keep a pace. These advantages can also work against you though. For instance, when you do start to run outside after training on a treadmill for an extended period, your body will not be used to the stress when your foot strikes the ground resulting in almost an immediate injury. Then in regards to the pace topic, the pace your body becomes accustomed to when running on a treadmill is never the same as running outside. You’ll find yourself trying too hard or not hard enough to keep the same pace outside as you did on a treadmill.

Cindysphinx
01-03-2010, 06:57 AM
Ha!

So I'm not the only loony who can be found doing walking lunges and suchlike in the middle of a run! Geez, the way people stare you'd think they'd never seen anyone doing a lunge before. :)

We have a lot of hills here, and I think hills are great for pretty much everything. I think the variety of terrain we have here would be impossible to duplicate on a treadmill. Like, how would you do lunges up a hill or run backwards up a hill on a treadmill?

Topaz
01-03-2010, 07:09 AM
^^^That is one of my cross-fit trainer's favorite circuits...run 400m, do 50 walking lunges, repeat at least 3 times. And good luck walking the next day!

*************

As far as glute stuff goes...who's glutes do you want? Those of the long distance runner or that of the sprinter? Depending on what you want (flat, not a lot of muscle tone...or toned up and shapely)...those are the kinds of exercises you should do to get that. Lots of people seem to think they are going to get a sprinter's butt by running long distances...and it doesn't happen that way.

***Keep in mind, of course, genetic make-up/differences.

Dags
01-03-2010, 07:51 AM
2. If I want to achieve a certain heart rate, I take my own rate for 10 seconds and multiply by 5. Easy and EXACT.

Multiplying by 6 would be a little more exact... ;-)

Moz
01-03-2010, 08:38 AM
Yes, you can get all the treadmill advantages by running outside. But it is more difficult and uncertain.

But by using thousands dollar treadmill machine, n the program i believe has been proven on their research. The result of our purpose would be achieved efficiently n easily.

Resolution 500 cals a day, how do you achieve it precisely by jogging outside? But it can be achieved precisely easily using treadmill machine.

The same case with glute program, the treadmill machine has made the program that i believe the effectivity has been test on their lab.

Weight loose program, how can you maintain your heartbeat on 124beats/min by jogging outside, but treadmill has sensor to make it easily. So if your heartbeat is too fast. you can change the speed or the incline.

Same case with cardio program that required heartbeat 152 beats/min.

So, i prefer join the fitness centre that having sophisticated treadmill if you want running on purpose.

What a spectacular load of bollocks. You've got to be joking.

Topaz
01-03-2010, 09:10 AM
Multiplying by 6 would be a little more exact... ;-)

Lol, yes, thank you...that would be super duper accurate!!!

raiden031
01-03-2010, 11:35 AM
Food for thought...some interesting articles:


Wind resistance is not an advantage, but a disadvantage IMO. For one it makes it harder to measure your progress if the conditions are different and unpredictable every time you go outside.

The main disadvantage I have experienced with outside running is that it allows laziness. You can easily slow down your pace because of fatigue (or wind resistance :)) and not even know it. On a treadmill you are forced to keep up the pace or you will fly off the treadmill. This is one of the reasons I do all of my speed workouts on a treadmill, instead of outside.

Topaz
01-03-2010, 12:28 PM
What? You think running outside, actually doing all the work (and working harder because of things like wind resistance) is lazy? Compared to running inside, in a controlled environment, with a machine assisting your movement?

We must have different definitions of lazy.

The idea that you are trying to match or better performance in spite of varying conditions makes it *harder*, thus more of a workout, and results in better...results.

raiden031
01-03-2010, 02:28 PM
What? You think running outside, actually doing all the work (and working harder because of things like wind resistance) is lazy? Compared to running inside, in a controlled environment, with a machine assisting your movement?

We must have different definitions of lazy.

The idea that you are trying to match or better performance in spite of varying conditions makes it *harder*, thus more of a workout, and results in better...results.

No because when outside your body will naturally slow down and work less because it can. On a machine your body has no choice.

In some of my tougher workouts I'll put the incline at level 4 or 5 and I hardly feel like my movement is being assisted by the machine. I never get that tired and winded going up a hill outside because I end up slowing down considerably first.

VetoRight
01-03-2010, 07:11 PM
What a spectacular load of bollocks. You've got to be joking.

That was my experience, n it works. Everytime i want getting advantages from running, i use treadmill.
It is easy, effective n efficient, you just button the program that you want.

But i am open minded guy, the opinion from topaz make me interested trying another way.

But he make everything looks complicated:running 5 miles(I can got 500 cals only with 1 hour running on treadmill, but 5 miles outside maybe need 2 hours or maybe more),

running on the hill(where do you can find hill on jogging track, but i believe he live on hilly place),

cutting 250 cals/50% from our food(i don't believe such thing magic pill like fat block or carb block, but if it works for him, good for him) ,

doing lunge outside(i don't know, maybe i should try this),

counting your own heartbeat(i don't know, because i'm fat guy, it always hard to me to find my own pulse :D :oops:)

So what is your suggestion/opinion?

VetoRight
01-03-2010, 07:13 PM
And...to derail a bit...if those are truly your goals (weight loss, glutes, and cardio) running is actually not the most effective way to achieve those things (inside or outside). Look into the benefits of strength training for fat burning as compared to steady state cardio (lots of sports medicine research on this, just try google or look up some posts by the poster Ano).

I am interested on this one, can you explain more detail?

VetoRight
01-03-2010, 07:16 PM
Food for thought...some interesting articles:

http://www.runningplanet.com/training/treadmill-versus-outside-running.html
...

*****

http://running.about.com/od/treadmillrunning/f/treadmillrun.htm

*****
http://running.about.com/od/treadmillrunning/f/runcalories.htm

*****
http://www.fitsugar.com/1611176

*****

http://www.hesfit.com/men/comment/running-treadmill-vs-outside/

*****
http://www.examiner.com/x-11960-Indianapolis-Running-Examiner~y2009m6d23-Treadmill-vs-running-outside

Thanks for the articles

VetoRight
01-03-2010, 07:21 PM
Wind resistance is not an advantage, but a disadvantage IMO. For one it makes it harder to measure your progress if the conditions are different and unpredictable every time you go outside.

The main disadvantage I have experienced with outside running is that it allows laziness. You can easily slow down your pace because of fatigue (or wind resistance :)) and not even know it. On a treadmill you are forced to keep up the pace or you will fly off the treadmill. This is one of the reasons I do all of my speed workouts on a treadmill, instead of outside.

No because when outside your body will naturally slow down and work less because it can. On a machine your body has no choice.

In some of my tougher workouts I'll put the incline at level 4 or 5 and I hardly feel like my movement is being assisted by the machine. I never get that tired and winded going up a hill outside because I end up slowing down considerably first.

Yes, one of the advantages running on treadmill, you can't beat the machine, so there's no top limit.

The machine always challenges n forces you, like it say: is it your best? So you want do more speed n more incline level :)

Topaz
01-04-2010, 02:22 AM
I am interested on this one, can you explain more detail?

I don't have the time to post a lot of links right now, but if you go into the advanced search function on this forum, and look up some posts from Ano, you will find some of the discussions. I'll try to remember to come back and post some info later tonight. Basically....some studies have shown that strength training is just as effective, if not more so, for fat burning than steady state cardio...and it takes less time!

And I would suggest you recheck your calorie burning estimations (or whatever tool you are using)....there is no way it would take you 2 hours to burn 500 calories running outside unless you were walking slowly. Generally speaking, a rough estimate is 100 calories per mile...so that would be about five miles. How long does it take you to get to that target on a treadmill? How fast are you running when you do that?

Cindysphinx
01-04-2010, 04:27 AM
No because when outside your body will naturally slow down and work less because it can. On a machine your body has no choice.

In some of my tougher workouts I'll put the incline at level 4 or 5 and I hardly feel like my movement is being assisted by the machine. I never get that tired and winded going up a hill outside because I end up slowing down considerably first.

Well, yeah. You can always slow down or even walk or hail a cab. But a treadmill is hardly the only way (or the best way) to make sure you don't slack off on a run.

I run to music. I force myself to keep pace with the music no matter the size of the hill. Problem solved.

Also, I get plenty winded running up a hill. That's because I run as fast as I can until I get to the top. If I am slowing down before I get to the top, it is not out of laziness but because I have reached my max and there is no more in the tank. If I were on a treadmill, I wouldn't get that first step sprint thing going, which is what I want for tennis.

raiden031
01-04-2010, 06:40 AM
Well, yeah. You can always slow down or even walk or hail a cab. But a treadmill is hardly the only way (or the best way) to make sure you don't slack off on a run.

I run to music. I force myself to keep pace with the music no matter the size of the hill. Problem solved.

Also, I get plenty winded running up a hill. That's because I run as fast as I can until I get to the top. If I am slowing down before I get to the top, it is not out of laziness but because I have reached my max and there is no more in the tank. If I were on a treadmill, I wouldn't get that first step sprint thing going, which is what I want for tennis.

You can slow down outside and there is no way to tell that you have slowed down until you look at your results and see how lousy they are.

At least on a treadmill if you can't keep up, you have to make a conscious effort to slow down the pace of the belt.

Moz
01-04-2010, 12:24 PM
That was my experience, n it works. Everytime i want getting advantages from running, i use treadmill.
It is easy, effective n efficient, you just button the program that you want.

But i am open minded guy, the opinion from topaz make me interested trying another way.

But he make everything looks complicated:running 5 miles(I can got 500 cals only with 1 hour running on treadmill, but 5 miles outside maybe need 2 hours or maybe more),

running on the hill(where do you can find hill on jogging track, but i believe he live on hilly place),

cutting 250 cals/50% from our food(i don't believe such thing magic pill like fat block or carb block, but if it works for him, good for him) ,

doing lunge outside(i don't know, maybe i should try this),

counting your own heartbeat(i don't know, because i'm fat guy, it always hard to me to find my own pulse :D :oops:)

So what is your suggestion/opinion?

With regards to the accuracy and convenience of burning calories on a treadmill.....

All the treadmill will do is estimate how many calories you have burned based on published averages and for how long you have run. Some of the more "sophisticated" ones will ask for your weight so it can apply that to a more specific set of statistics.

If you ran outside for an hour all you have to do is what the machine does and look at the published averages for your age / weight with regards to how many calories you have burned.

Both methods are next to useless however as the testing required to identify your personal calorie burn rate is comprehensive, expensive and not freely available. Just because the treadmill gives you a specific number doesn't mean that number is worth anything at all.

There are gps watches which will do the same for you outside - the numbers are still just grossly inaccurate averages.

You can also get heart rate monitors outside where you don't have to grip on to the bar on the machine like a fool. They cost about $20 and can be used indoors aswell.

My bet is that you are just using averages to work out your heart rate zones which is also pretty much useless. You have to do a max hr test for it to be any use at all.

Sorry for the seeming intolerance of my posts - I have to repeat myself ad nauseum on these topics on a running forum. People clutching at these precise numbers without realising their limitations and then recycling this as fact really gets my goat.

Moz
01-04-2010, 12:29 PM
You can slow down outside and there is no way to tell that you have slowed down until you look at your results and see how lousy they are.

At least on a treadmill if you can't keep up, you have to make a conscious effort to slow down the pace of the belt.

Technology has moved on. You can watches that give you real time feedback on speed, pace, heart rate etc when you run outside. If you really want you can download the data to your pc and look at the gradient etc as well. These are very accurate - certainly more so than a poorly calibrated machine inside a gym.

If you don't want to buy one of those go and run on a marked trail - there are plenty near you.

Forgive me, but using the treadmill as a crutch to prevent yourself from slowing down is pretty lame! Part of the "skill" of running is developing a sense of pace against perceived effort during training - a sense that can then be used during your racing.

raiden031
01-04-2010, 12:44 PM
Forgive me, but using the treadmill as a crutch to prevent yourself from slowing down is pretty lame! Part of the "skill" of running is developing a sense of pace against perceived effort during training - a sense that can then be used during your racing.

Its not using the treadmill as a crutch, I was refuting all the praise for wind resistance. You can get more than enough resistance from a treadmill by increasing the incline, and at least its predictable such that you can use results from a previous session to gauge how you are improving. Also the huge variations in temperature in outdoor running is another factor.

Again as my earlier posts would show I'm not against outdoor running, and I don't even prefer treadmill running (except under certain circumstances), but just that I think the treadmill is a very useful machine and is under-rated.

Moz
01-04-2010, 02:14 PM
Sorry mate, I misunderstood.

Wind resistance is what it is - you have to race against it so you may as well train against it. The problem is that you are comparing purely aerobic improvements whereas what counts is running improvement - and a large part of that is running economy and biomechanical which is developed outdoors and not on treadmills.

We may never agree but I think the treadmill is way over-rated!

raiden031
01-04-2010, 06:35 PM
We may never agree but I think the treadmill is way over-rated!

Over-rated by who? Practically everybody is anti-treadmill!

tennis24
01-04-2010, 07:20 PM
treadmills are good. i do sprints for a minute-and-a-half on 15 mph . this helps with tennis.

Moz
01-05-2010, 02:15 AM
Over-rated by who? Practically everybody is anti-treadmill!

You'd be surprised how many people use them. Besides, one person liking them already means they're overrated!!

FastFreddy
01-05-2010, 08:33 AM
Check out this month's runners world mag. It has an article on treadmills and does a review on 9 models. It said 12 million people in the USA use them.

movdqa
01-05-2010, 09:18 AM
I've been running on a treadmill for a long time. We have very nice models in the office and I don't have to deal with the issues out the great outdoors:

Broken pavement, dogs, insects, exhaust, sunburn. I have a water supply handy and the people in my office can get a hold of me if I'm needed right away. One of the bigger reasons is that I have allergies in the spring, summer and fall. The filters in the office take care of the allergies in the spring and summer.

OrangeOne
01-06-2010, 07:06 PM
Treadmills recruit muscles differently, as others have pointed out. Your legs do not have to "pull against" the ground, they are almost "pushed through" by the belt.

This means very different recruitment, especially less in the hip flexors. Over-use can lead to injuries.

In summary - they're a good tool in extreme conditions that are absolutely terrible to run in. Otherwise - get out there and enjoy air and life.

For the record: my ridiculously highly-qualified sports physio won't even let me use one, especially not when I'm recovering from injury, which is a time that many seem to!

Cindysphinx
01-07-2010, 03:42 AM
Regarding running in heat, sun and in wind . . .

Tennis is played in heat, sun and wind. It makes sense to train for tennis in these elements.

Why do people insist that their workouts be so very antiseptic? Gotta have filtered air, gotta have even terrain, gotta have AC.

My husband and I are having a multi-year battle over getting a treadmill. I don't want the expense and clutter, and I don't see why we shouldn't exercise outside for free. Most of all, we have an Australian Shepherd, so if anyone is going to run the overweight dog should get off the couch and go along.

Cindy -- thinking that if she ever has a problem with insects on a run she's not running fast enough

charliefedererer
01-07-2010, 08:52 AM
Nothing is more glorious than getting outside for some exercise.

But treadmills have their place, especially for those in snow/ice bound climates during weekdays when the sidewalks are icy and the morning and evenings are dark in winter.

Of course weekends then are great for cross country skiing, but using skating skis to better build up the medial leg muscles in the pushoff.

And what could be better dynamic warm up than shoveling off your tennis court?