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Ethan04
04-22-2005, 05:13 AM
Can Nadal domainate clays like Muster did? Can Nadal be the new "King of the Clay"?

Kevin Patrick
04-22-2005, 10:47 AM
Nadal is 23-2 on clay for the year. He's scheduled to play Rome & Hamburg after Barcelona.
Muster was undefeated on clay through the French Open in '95. Both lefties, both grinders, both physically intimidating, Nadal could be a dominant clay player.

Ethan04
04-25-2005, 12:10 PM
Nadal aiming for 3rd consecutive title on clay..

gugafanatic
04-25-2005, 02:40 PM
Finally Nadal seems to have support from all those doubters who thought he was not experienced or good enough to win the FO. I really think Nadal could hammer Federer 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 on clay the way he is playing right now. Immense, the next Guga in my opinion.

splink779
04-25-2005, 02:45 PM
If Guga was playing his best he could wipe the floor (well clay i guess) with Nadal. Unfortunately he's no where near his best, so Nadal is now the king of clay. He's proved he can beat the other favorites pretty handily (Coria, Gaudio, Ferrero). Not sure about him facing Moya though. I would love to see them run into each other now that Nadal is playing really well. They have similar games, plus they are practically in love with each other ;).

Exile
04-25-2005, 02:52 PM
I think if Gaudio can get his game together he will surpass nadal.

Kirko
04-25-2005, 03:01 PM
He'sw there !

nkhera1
04-25-2005, 03:24 PM
I would have to say Andy Roddick is the king of clay. So far he hasn't even lost a set on clay. That is just amazing.

splink779
04-25-2005, 03:39 PM
I think if Gaudio can get his game together he will surpass nadal.

Too bad Gaudio's mentality is as prevalent as his beautiful backhand. At 25 years old (not 100% on his age) he probably won't change his mental attitude, unless he wins a couple more titles. This time if Gaudio meets Nadal in the FO final, Nadal isn't going to choke like Coria did/does, and Nadal will beat him. But even saying Gaudio is going to make it to the final again is pretty bold.

spinbalz
04-25-2005, 03:43 PM
I would have to say Andy Roddick is the king of clay. So far he hasn't even lost a set on clay. That is just amazing.

Wait for Roddick to play a Spanish qualifier for the first round of the French open, and you'll see how Andy will finaly lose 3 sets in just one match. :lol:

aj_m2009
04-25-2005, 04:25 PM
I myself think he already is, as someone pointed out he has only lost two matches on clay and has beaten the best clay courters. IMO he just needs to win the French to confirm that he is.

gugafanatic
04-25-2005, 04:46 PM
Nadal Is The Best Player At The Moment. He Is Playing Better Then Federer, Sorry Fed Fans But This Is True. The Way He Is Humiliating Respectable Clay Courters Is Quite Unbelievable. I Just Wish Guga Doesnt Play Him In The Earlier Rds Of Up-coming Tournies. Furthermore Nadal Is Soo Confident Right Now, That Whenever He Steps Onto The Court He Knows He Can Win (invincibility?).

antontd
04-25-2005, 05:01 PM
I didn't know that Nadal already won French Open 2005. Let's wait and see, shall we? 3 of 5 sets, guys - A lot of running...

sliceroni
04-25-2005, 08:25 PM
I agree that he's playing better dirt ball that anybody else at the moment. But on clay anything can happen, like what happenned last year with Coria, going on a tear like Nadal is right now then getting crush by Federer in one final and choking in the FO final. An unexpected winner seems to be the theme for the FO, my guess is that it will happen again this year.

aj_m2009
04-25-2005, 08:38 PM
...An unexpected winner seems to be the theme for the FO, my guess is that it will happen again this year.

Ferrero wasn't much of a suprise winner in '03 and I would imagine Guga wasn't really in '01 either, but I don't know. Maybe it happens every other year, which would mean that Nadal should win!!!

splink779
04-25-2005, 08:55 PM
Ferrero wasn't much of a suprise winner in '03 and I would imagine Guga wasn't really in '01 either, but I don't know. Maybe it happens every other year, which would mean that Nadal should win!!!

Haha yeah, that is a good point. My guess is Nadal will win the french this year and at least the next two.

Andy Hewitt
04-25-2005, 09:04 PM
Once the clay courts open here, I will determine whether I am the king of clay or not!

theace21
04-25-2005, 09:10 PM
Nadal is amazing...I hope I get a chance to see him in person. Only 18, his game will improve in the next several years...

Exile
04-25-2005, 09:11 PM
I miss guga...
I also miss Goran, he was my favorite lefty, but that's another story.
I suppose lefty's w/ extreme western grips and clay courts go extremely well together.
I'm thinking if J. johansson can find some sort of direction with his game and finds some consistency with his backhand he would be a formidable opponent come grass season.

Also,
Where is Kiefer?
He was becoming popular on US TV towards the end of last year and just dissappeared.
I think I just answered my own question.... =)

joeman957
04-25-2005, 09:16 PM
Nadal would definitely be the winner of Roland Garros... if it were all best 2 out of 3 sets. Nadal may have the talent, but it doesn't seem like he has the endurance. He has shown that in his match against Federer in Miami, and even in the final against Coria. Even though he won, he had to give up the third set to save energy for the 4th, since he was already down. The Grand Slams are not just a test of skill, but endurance also. I don't think he'll win, not because he isn't good enough, but simply because he doesn't have enough endurance.

muklucke
04-25-2005, 09:44 PM
There can only be one king of clay and untill Guga retires, everyone will remain his prince. GO GUGA!!!

nkhera1
04-25-2005, 09:57 PM
As mentioned by joeman957 Nadal doesn't have the stamina to play 7 best of 5 matches. He gets tired playing 1 best of 5 match, so it may be a bit of a challenge for him this year though if he can build some stamina then he should have a good chance.

antontd
04-25-2005, 10:02 PM
It's not his stamina, it's his style. He tries to get every ball back.

aj_m2009
04-25-2005, 10:04 PM
It's not his stamina, it's his style. He tries to get every ball back.

I agree, and it isn't like all of his matches are going to be 5 sets.

nkhera1
04-25-2005, 10:15 PM
I agree, and it isn't like all of his matches are going to be 5 sets.

He was really tired near the end of one 5 setter. Roland Garros will be even tougher where there are plenty of long matches for everyone even the best players. Besides Nadal himself has admitted this.

aj_m2009
04-25-2005, 10:34 PM
He was really tired near the end of one 5 setter. Roland Garros will be even tougher where there are plenty of long matches for everyone even the best players. Besides Nadal himself has admitted this.

But you do notice that his strokes are built for clay, they work better on it. They aren't as effective on hard or grass courts so to win it is obviously going to take longer.

SydW
04-26-2005, 01:49 AM
He will be the King of clay for a year the moment he wins RG. Right now it's impossible to not list him as one the huge favourite going into it, he did beat Ferrero, Coria and Gaudio convincingly and was very impressive. But many seem to forget Coria was on a clay winning streak I believe even hotter than Nadal's too last year, he didn't win RG and did lose to Federer in Hamburg final who ended his hot streak.

One thing I know for sure though is I didn't think I read as many obnoxious post about Coria like he already is the King or the number one player as I have to read about Nadal now.

Chloe
04-26-2005, 01:53 AM
He will be the King of clay for a year the moment he wins RG. Right now it's impossible to not list him as one the huge favourite going into it, he did beat Ferrero, Coria and Gaudio convincingly and was very impressive. But many seem to forget Coria was on a clay winning streak I believe even hotter than Nadal's too last year, he didn't win RG and did lose to Federer in Hamburg final who ended his hot streak.

One thing I know for sure though is I didn't think I read as many obnoxious post about Coria like he already is the King or the number one player as I have to read about Nadal now.
We call this the recency effect.

SydW
04-26-2005, 01:55 AM
We call this the recency effect.

yes, and probably the most obnoxious I'd ever encountered as yet.

Chloe
04-26-2005, 02:00 AM
yes, and probably the most obnoxious I'd ever encountered as yet.
You do know what the recency effect is, no? It's cool if you don't, I would be happy to explain it.

SydW
04-26-2005, 02:08 AM
You do know what the recency effect is, no? It's cool if you don't, I would be happy to explain it.

Of course but did I use the right word obnoxious? The recency effect to the obnoxious extent, is that how I can describe on some posts about Nadal here? Or is that wrong English? Do enlighten me.

Chloe
04-26-2005, 02:12 AM
Of course but did I use the right word obnoxious? The recency effect to the obnoxious extent, is that how I can describe on some posts about Nadal here? Or is that wrong English? Do enlighten me.
Well I meant that your impression that Nadal was getting more "King of Clay" hurrah that Coria was slightly misguided, since it probably only seems that way because it's happening right now. What happened a year ago seems less profound, however obnoxious it may have been at the time. That's how things generally work.

Mind you, Nadal might be getting a little bit more attention, since he's younger. However, I like both he and Coria (I'm a paranoid fan of both!) and seem to recall the Coria love was pretty thick at this time last year too.

Perhaps you understood all of this and I misunderstood you. In which case, my mistake.

It's late now. I'll bugger off ;)

SydW
04-26-2005, 02:17 AM
Well I meant that your impression that Nadal was getting more "King of Clay" hurrah that Coria was slightly misguided, since it probably only seems that way because it's happening right now. What happened a year ago seems less profound, however obnoxious it may have been at the time. That's how things generally work.

Mind you, Nadal might be getting a little bit more attention, since he's younger. However, I like both he and Coria (I'm a paranoid fan of both!) and seem to recall the Coria love was pretty thick at this time last year too.

Perhaps you understood all of this and I misunderstood you. In which case, my mistake.

It's late now. I'll bugger off ;)

I couldn't care less who you like or don't.

When I meant obnoxious, I meant the posts from that fanatic whoever, and also that crazy one who won't stop harassing posters when any negative comments are made on Nadal, or forcing people to acknowledge that a 18 yo Nadal is better than the 18 yo Federer.

I don't think I had experienced such type of behaviours from the Coria fan last year with a similar hot form as Nadal at this moment.

You clearly misunderstood me and you owe me an apology.

gugafanatic
04-26-2005, 06:02 AM
I HAVE COMPILED A LIST OF UNSEEDED CLAY COURTERS THAT ARE GOING TO POSE A MAJOR THREAT TO ANY ONE OF THE TOP 10 SEEDS AT FO.

GUGA- Trichampion, made the quarters last yr despite playing through the pain barrier. Currently playing "pain-free" and is capable of taking out any player in the world if fully fit and inspired. Providing Guga can get through the early rds, he is going to be a force using the memories to inspire him to play hes best tennis.

Costa- Another former FO champion. Gritty clay-courter who was coming back from the brink of defeat last yr pulling through in some 5 setters at RG. Experienced customer, could KO players such as: Henman, Roddick, Fed, Safin, Hewitt.

JCF- (I assume he will be unseeded as he is ranked 42 in the entry system)- Beginning to find hes top form, although two lacklustre defeats to Nadal will have been a major setback. Currently one of the favorites for RG.

IGOR ANDREEV- Big server with alot of weapons. One of the few guys to beat Nadal during hes peak on the dirt. Also defeated JCF at the French last yr. Brought up on clay, soo may pose a threat to players like Henman, A.Rod, Hewitt and Agassi.

M Llodra- Made the quarters last yr, uncanny serve volley game is going to unsettle the baseline grinders. Will have the French crowd to spurr him on.

R.Gasquet- Wat a backhand!. He beat Fed this yr, and looked good in hes defeat to Nadal at Monte Carlo. Terrific groundstokes, providing he gets some good preperation during Rome and Hamburg expect him to make some noise.

A.Martin- has defeated Guga and Ferrero this year, dangerous player that will grind all day long.

Juan Monaco- Rescently won a clay tournament, unheraled Argentine with alot of talent.

Calleri- Seemed to run out of steam against Nadal at Barcelona. Another dangerous floater.

Misiti99
04-26-2005, 07:55 AM
Nadal has prove himself on clay 2-3...but 3-5 is different story like everyone else has said. He was outlasted by Hewitt in 5 at the Australian Open....he also lost steam against Fed recently in 5. I'd love to see his record in 5 set matches where it went to 5 sets. The problem is....he's wiping everyone in straight sets on clay. I definitely think he beats Fed at the French....another possible finalist can be Juan Carlos...who also is destroying respectable clay courters. Lastly, what is with Coria.....a former number 1 junior....finalist at the french...doesn't look good this year. Is is true he hasn't been the same since last years French. He was embarassed by Agassi in i believe Miami...and I don't see him going far in the French..any thoughts?

VamosRafa
04-26-2005, 08:11 AM
I think the attention Rafa is getting would be received by any player who, over the course of four months, won 4 titles, went from 51 to 7 in the world, and was 35-6 on the year. Them's practically Federer statistics.

And as Chloe said, the fact that he is 18 is really adding to the Rafa-lution, as it is being called, along with Rafa's style (which is pretty unique). This article from the Independent explains it a bit:

Wickedly top-spun forehands of lethal pace have been drawing gasps from the Barcelona crowds. To the young people in the audience, however, Nadal's gear is on a par with his shots. The shirt is a garish orangey-yellow, sleeveless with black piping. Though the calf-length white shorts and broad white headband lend a piratical air, the tightness of his trousers is more in keeping with a matador's uniform, though any lack of comfort doesn't show in his whirlwind tennis.

To describe Nadal as exciting would be a serious understatement. Pedro Hernandez, the editor of Tenis A Fondo, has followed his career since the earliest days and says: "He has the spirit, the talent, the fight, the brains. He has everything, and he will be better than most Spaniards because he can play on all surfaces. He is not big-headed but he is very confident and he wants to compete at everything. He will even challenge you to a sandwich-eating contest."

As for Rafa's own assessment of his immediate future:

"I don't spend a lot of time thinking about what I have achieved at 18," he said, swigging a soft drink straight from the can. "But, if I don't win another match this year, I will have accomplished the goal I set in January of getting into the top 20 in 2005.

"Winning the Davis Cup for Spain made me very happy, but this is incredible, my first big singles title. It is a key moment in my career, but I am only too aware that there will be bad moments to come. I won't always be able to play like that. It is not normal to win the sort of matches I have been winning, and I know a bad patch will come, so it is important to maintain the form I'm in now for as long as I can."

"After last year's injury, which kept me out from April to July, things are going well again, but I know very well that one moment of ill fortune and everything can change. So far, I have managed to avoid such moments. I don't know if I'll still be playing like this in a month's time, so my priority is to maintain form and stay fit."

And Nadal on Federer and No. 1:

"I see myself a long way from being No 1. Many players aspire to that, and Roger Federer is a long way in front of everyone.

"All I know is that, if I want to get there one day, I will have to improve," said the teenager. My only thought every day is to become better. My intention is to give 100 per cent every time I play. Sometimes I will win, sometimes lose, but I can always go to sleep knowing I have done my best."

Chloe
04-26-2005, 09:01 AM
I couldn't care less who you like or don't.

When I meant obnoxious, I meant the posts from that fanatic whoever, and also that crazy one who won't stop harassing posters when any negative comments are made on Nadal, or forcing people to acknowledge that a 18 yo Nadal is better than the 18 yo Federer.

I don't think I had experienced such type of behaviours from the Coria fan last year with a similar hot form as Nadal at this moment.

You clearly misunderstood me and you owe me an apology.
You know, I don't think that we're talking about the same thing at all. I knew full well what you were talking about and my response made perfect sense. Whether or not the Coria talk was actually as "irritating" as the Nadal talk is up for debate, but recency would certainly play a role in that. As would personal preference.

However, if you insist, I suppose I could regift your flowers.

SydW
04-26-2005, 07:49 PM
You know, I don't think that we're talking about the same thing at all. I knew full well what you were talking about and my response made perfect sense. Whether or not the Coria talk was actually as "irritating" as the Nadal talk is up for debate, but recency would certainly play a role in that. As would personal preference.

However, if you insist, I suppose I could regift your flowers.

As opposed to what you think, I understand well enough recency effect. You can debate as you want, I only pointed out what I noticed based on few exchanges with certain Nadal fanatic here and other posts I read. Don't think I had come across any other poster here who goes as crazy or as aggressive in defending their favourite.

Chloe
04-26-2005, 08:11 PM
Don't think I had come across any other poster here who goes as crazy or as aggressive in defending their favourite.

I don't think that I was defending anybody. I've been here one day and I've never had so many assumptions cast on me in my life. Okay, that's not true. But not so many at one time!

Regardless, I apologize for acting like you didn't know what I was talking about.

Did you get the flowers?

SydW
04-26-2005, 08:18 PM
I don't think that I was defending anybody. I've been here one day and I've never had so many assumptions cast on me in my life. Okay, that's not true. But not so many at one time!


I didn't say it was you. I was talking about the other biggest fanatic I'd ever had the pleasure to meet in this forum. You misunderstood me, AGAIN. Maybe it was me.

yes, got the flower, looks exactly like the one I sent out.

Chloe
04-26-2005, 08:23 PM
Me and VamosRafa are tight, yo. Unless you're talking about somebody else. I'm not tight with too many people around here!

I'm glad that the flowers are in good shape.

SydW
04-26-2005, 08:26 PM
Great, so we have VamosNadal here. YEAH!

Chloe
04-26-2005, 08:39 PM
Link me up to all my posts defending Rafa, please. Or, you know, quit leaking out the new hole I'm about to rip you.

I need a new line. I already used that one on anton. And it made more sense then because he wasn't leaking out of a hole that hadn't yet been created.

Anyways, couldn't you at least insult me for something that I've actually said? I don't ask much.

antontd
04-26-2005, 11:26 PM
SydW, accidentally Iíve dealt with VamosRafa and Chloe and believe me when I say - they donít give up. It doesnít even matter how bad they look. Let them have it.

activentures
04-26-2005, 11:41 PM
Finally Nadal seems to have support from all those doubters who thought he was not experienced or good enough to win the FO. I really think Nadal could hammer Federer 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 on clay the way he is playing right now. Immense, the next Guga in my opinion.

Steady on son. The problem with Nadal is that his game is based on his physical condition, in both his stroke mechanics, and chasing everything down. My doubts revolve around what happens if he is not feeling 100%. The difference with Guga is he is (was) a more natural tennis player, especially on the b/h and played a more attacking game with more winners, and therefore less one dimensional. As for Federer, clay is easily his weakest surface, but he is still one of the top 5 guys on it, and is more than capable of beating anyone on his day. His defeat to RG was on a day he was playing badly, and RG was immense. Luckily for Nadal, RG could not keep this standard up the next day, and for the periods that he did, he easily outplayed the spaniard. IMO RG lost it rather than Rafa winning it.

As for a comparison at age 18. I'd say Nadal @18 would have beaten Fed @18, but you have to consider that they are totally different. The type of game that Nadal plays, and his early physical maturity makes him the kind of player that will peak at a young age. Remember the hype when Chang burst onto the scene at 15, with many of Nadal's attributes. And yet he didn't go on to match the achievements of the likes of Agassi and Sampras. Nadal needs to really work on improving his game in terms of his serve and volleying otherwise his achievemnts will be limited, and he will plateau early. Moya would be a good role model, a fellow spaniard grinder who has developed a good serve, and despite claims of 140mph serves on this board, his serve remains poor, especially for a lefty. It was acknowledged in their match that Gasquet had a better all round game, and won many points from the net and clean winners. Watching that match, which was very even, it would seem RG has greater potential for improvement. Rafa is a great grinder, but needs to keep developing opther areas, and would add a lot to his game if he could learn to volley effectively.

Chloe
04-26-2005, 11:53 PM
...they donít give up. It doesnít even matter how bad they look...

Projection, my dear friend.

The first part is a compliment, by the way. Thanks.

SydW
04-27-2005, 12:50 AM
Link me up to all my posts defending Rafa, please. Or, you know, quit leaking out the new hole I'm about to rip you.

I need a new line. I already used that one on anton. And it made more sense then because he wasn't leaking out of a hole that hadn't yet been created.

Anyways, couldn't you at least insult me for something that I've actually said? I don't ask much.

Really, what the ****? When I said I wasn't talking about you 2 posts back but the other fanatics, you went on and talked about you and him/her being tight (whatever that means I have no clue), so I made a joke and then you burst out with all this "When did I say this? Don't accuse me, I'm going to rip you" **** AGAIN. Dear do you want to be aggressive or you want to have a laugh and joke around, don't go here and there in between and start all this ********s on me.

Ethan04
04-27-2005, 05:44 AM
removed...

Chloe
04-27-2005, 11:33 AM
Really, what the ****? When I said I wasn't talking about you 2 posts back but the other fanatics, you went on and talked about you and him/her being tight (whatever that means I have no clue), so I made a joke and then you burst out with all this "When did I say this? Don't accuse me, I'm going to rip you" **** AGAIN. Dear do you want to be aggressive or you want to have a laugh and joke around, don't go here and there in between and start all this ********s on me.
I am having a laugh. I guess it was just me.

10sfather
04-27-2005, 01:29 PM
Nadal? Gasquet? Gasquet? Nadal? That is the question.

VamosRafa
04-27-2005, 01:44 PM
Activentures, I think you make some very good points, ones Rafa would agree with. Although I think we have to see more of Gasquet, and his consistency, before we can draw conclusions there. He was indeed very impressive in Monte Carlo, though. But if nothing else, Rafa has shown his consistency, and also his mental toughness -- two things that go beyond your on-court techniques.

Jordi Aresse, the Spanish Davis Cup coach, says Rafa and Hewitt are the mentally toughest players on Tour right now. I won't post Jordi's article on Rafa, because it makes the stuff Pat McEnroe says about Andy look downright unflattering. *lol*

Here's what Rafa says about why he doesn't consider himself a fave for RG, and it mirrors much of what is said above. He's never played RG before; he doesn't know what will happen until gets there, which may explain why he's going all out in these Masters events, as he feels good about playing best of 3 at this stage. It also may be that his camp is trying to build up his endurance as much as possible:

"I am playing at a very high level, certainly the highest I have ever played," he said. Monte Carlo was my best moment in tennis, my first big title, although I was probably happier when I played in the Spanish team that beat USA to win the Davis Cup last December.

The experience of playing Federer in a final helped me so much. It made me realise tennis is a matter of concentrating all the time.

Right now I am tired and that is normal and I'm not sure whether I have the physique to play many five-set matches in a row but I try. We will see."

I like the fact that he learned so much from that Federer match, and was able to put it too good use right away. I do think it was a big reason he didn't find himself in another set in Monte Carlo.

VamosRafa
04-27-2005, 01:47 PM
Projection, my dear friend.

The first part is a compliment, by the way. Thanks.

I agree. As for looking bad, I think that's a matter of perspective and one that is basically irrelevant. If I look bad in a meeting at work, it's a cause for concern. But much less so here. ;-)

antontd
04-27-2005, 02:28 PM
The first part is a compliment, by the way. Thanks.

Sorry, it wasn't. When the chances are against you, it is a brave, emotional and stupid suicide.
"brave" is a compliment by the way. ;)

To keep this post on-topic: I totally agree activentures.

gugafanatic
04-27-2005, 03:37 PM
I believe Nadal is deliberately playing down hes chances at Rolad Garos , although deep down he knows he can beat anyone on clay 5 sets or not.

esrb
04-27-2005, 04:33 PM
I miss Guga !!!!
Pleeze come back soon in perfect shape !!!
Another Guga's fan.

VamosRafa
04-27-2005, 06:31 PM
Sorry, it wasn't. When the chances are against you, it is a brave, emotional and stupid suicide.
"brave" is a compliment by the way. ;)

To keep this post on-topic: I totally agree activentures.

Why is it suicide, whether brave or otherwise? What will happen to us if we hang in there, press our view and others think we are wrong?

Will we flunk out of school? No.

Will we lose our job, to the extent we have one? No.

Will it cause problems with our family? No.

Will it cause problems with our "real" friends? No.

Will it in fact really kill us? No.

So, what does it really do? People that we don't know, and likely will never know, just disagree with us, and we disagree with them, and we all live to talk about it another day.

I think your posts are assinine at times, but that's my opinion. I never thought you committed cyber-suicide. But perhaps you did. I'd have to research it a bit. *justkidding* You obviously are still here posting, as are we.

And it will be the same tomorrow. :-)

Perhaps we all need to realize this is not serious stuff. And start treating it that way. I'm trying to do so myself, and will do so more and more, especially if others start doing so, too. We may actually have a bit of fun around here. :-)

antontd
04-27-2005, 06:56 PM
That was generally said VamosRafa.
And I do think you take your posts much more seriously than me.

Nadal is not the king, he is simply a consistent, talentless and lucky ******.



Lol, I bet you are angry now.

VamosRafa
04-27-2005, 06:57 PM
That was generally said VamosRafa.
And I do think you take your posts much more seriously than me.

Nadal is not the king, he is simply a consistent, talentless and lucky ******.



Lol, I bet you are angry now.

Nope, because I consider the source. *lol*

And if you think the No. 7 player in the world, and the No. 2 player this year, is what you say he is, you can't think much of the rest of the Tour???? (For future reference, the "R" word is politically incorrect in most quarters, but you likely didn't know that.)

And it was you, who brought me into this with this comment:

SydW, accidentally Iíve dealt with VamosRafa and Chloe and believe me when I say - they donít give up. It doesnít even matter how bad they look. Let them have it.

But for that, we likely wouldn't be having this discussion. Although I think it turned out to be a fruitful one. Not sure it makes you look particularly good, though. ;-)

antontd
04-27-2005, 07:20 PM
LOL, I was expecting the stats, but where are the pro playerís quotes? You show some improvement. he-he

bamboo
04-27-2005, 07:24 PM
When you can generate the type of racquet head speed Nadal does enabling you to hit balls in the middle of the court that can't go wide or long, and yet because they're so "heavy" with spin your opponent can't move in on them, that is awfully tough to beat on clay or hard. If he can get to the point where he volleys short, like Borg, instead of into the net, like Vilas, he could even win Wimbledon - he has fast hands. This from someone who is not a fan, just objectively reviewing his ability.

VamosRafa
04-27-2005, 07:28 PM
LOL, I was expecting the stats, but where are the pro playerís quotes? You show some improvement. he-he

Okay, back up a second, Antontd. And consider this. You are a fan of Rafael. Everyone knows your opinion, right?

So when issues come up about him, no one wants to hear your opinion, as they already know it. Right?

So what do you do? Provide stats and quotes from others, if not Rafa himself. Hard to argue with those. And no one is. Funny that. ŅEntiende? he-he-he

larrhall
04-27-2005, 07:55 PM
Susan, your predictions about Nadal were right on. He's the real deal. Apparently around Miami he moved up a level, proved that he is a top contender on hard courts and even boosted his clay confidence another level. It appeared he would beat Federer at Nasdaq but simply expended too much energy bouncing around. I doubt this will be a problem in Paris. I think Gaudio and Coria are his only real challenges in Paris. Well, Federer, Ferrero, Safin too, but less so. Federer is not quite the same player on clay. If he stays healthy, I think 'Rafa' will win there.

Re: Guga Kuerten, a comeback would be very nice, but I don't believe it can happen, sorry to say. Miss his style.

VamosRafa
04-27-2005, 08:02 PM
Susan, your predictions about Nadal were right on. He's the real deal. Apparently around Miami he moved up a level, proved that he is a top contender on hard courts and even boosted his clay confidence another level. It appeared he would beat Federer at Nasdaq but simply expended too much energy bouncing around. I doubt this will be a problem in Paris. I think Gaudio and Coria are his only real challenges in Paris. Well, Federer, Ferrero, Safin too, but less so. Federer is not quite the same player on clay. If he stays healthy, I think 'Rafa' will win there.

Re: Guga Kuerten, a comeback would be very nice, but I don't believe it can happen, sorry to say. Miss his style.

Nice to hear from you, Larry. I do think that Rafa will win RG. If not this year, another year. He's still very young, but he's moving along the same path that Ferrero, Coria and others have done, but perhaps on an accelerated pace. But neither of them won RG their first time around. But barring injury, Rafa should continue to post good claycourt results in the future.

Totally agree re Guga. In fact, he and Nadal spent a lot of time together in Valencia, and Guga worked with Rafa a lot. Or perhaps they worked with each other. But Guga directed several of Rafa's practice sessions.

Maybe that's the key to Rafa's current success. ;-)

And on another note, Rafa does bounce around too much. But people in Spain couldn't believe that he and Feli Lopez were doing so well in doubles, as Rafa was doing the bulk of the work in that duo. Feli hasn't had the best year, but again, how could he not be inspired with Rafa bouncing around him and telling him what to do. Which is what he does. I saw it in Miami, where they played. Although all credit to Lopez, who served very well in their doubles matches, and who also came out to show his support in all of Rafa's singles matches. Still, Rafa is the one who ran that show.

antontd
04-27-2005, 10:24 PM
Yeah, VamosRafa, I know your opinion about Nadal and you know mine(itís not the last one). But donít you think that your maniacal obsession with him is a bit too much?
What is "Entiende"? I know only vamos, adios(sp) and amigos(sp).
King of Clay = Excellent clay season + French Open Title

VamosRafa
04-27-2005, 11:14 PM
Yeah, VamosRafa, I know your opinion about Nadal and you know mine(itís not the last one). But donít you think that your maniacal obsession with him is a bit too much?
What is "Entiende"? I know only vamos, adios(sp) and amigos(sp).
King of Clay = Excellent clay season + French Open Title

My obsession with him could be classified as too much if I hadn't run a player site for him for two years, long before you or many others took note, BTW. And yes, I mentioned that site a time or two here, but hey, as Larry said, I was right. *lol*

Several of you have mentioned other up and comers, and perhaps you want to start sites for them.

Gasquet had an official site BEFORE I even started the Nadal one two years ago. So that's taken.

But there are many others out there; I just took a flyer with Nadal.

But yes, I have reaped what I have sown (to quote Rabbit) in terms of http:www.vamosrafael.com.

To get back to the point, Entiende means "understand" or "comprehend"?

SydW
04-27-2005, 11:55 PM
I am having a laugh. I guess it was just me.

Of course and when is the next time you're going to blow up and demand an explanation or apology? Let me know dear. I need clearer signals.

SydW
04-28-2005, 12:04 AM
My obsession with him could be classified as too much if I hadn't run a player site for him for two years, long before you or many others took note, BTW. And yes, I mentioned that site a time or two here, but hey, as Larry said, I was right. *lol*


a time or two or thousand or million times?

There we go with the same stuff again "I am better, I'm right blah blah blah" and where are you not right anyway or rather I should ask, where DO YOU EVER THINK you are not right?


Perhaps we all need to realize this is not serious stuff. And start treating it that way. I'm trying to do so myself, and will do so more and more, especially if others start doing so, too. We may actually have a bit of fun around here.

Yes please try harder and take your own advise here please.

antontd
04-28-2005, 01:00 AM
VamosRafa, You were right about what? It was pretty obvious that heís gonna be a good player long ago.
"My obsession with him could be classified as too much if I hadn't run a player site for him for two years" - actually this makes your obsession maniacal. I hope you donít have thousands of his pictures on your walls.
Why do you have to protect and promote him every single time? His achievements speak well enough.
Oh, yeah, I almost forgot - I want your website now. Give it to me or ***... (canít say it, itís "politically incorrect"... ha-ha).

ps: if Entiende means "understand" or "comprehend", what is comprende?

swedechris
04-28-2005, 03:01 AM
the french is a very tough challenge for anybody .. but if you play a game where you run a lot .. like nadal , hewitt, costa , corretja for example .. you will feel it all the more.
i think nadal is the best claycourter right now but i have seen his pattern of having a tough time in 5 setters .. fed in miami , hewitt in aus open .. so he needs to get thru that .. can he ? possibly .. anybodys guess..
i personally am a doubter.
i think coria will get his title this year . he is due.

aj_m2009
04-28-2005, 03:25 AM
...ps: if Entiende means "understand" or "comprehend", what is comprende?

I believe it means the same thing.

Chloe
04-28-2005, 02:28 PM
Of course and when is the next time you're going to blow up and demand an explanation or apology? Let me know dear. I need clearer signals.
I hardly remember why I demanded one last time, so you can't expect me to know when I'll do it again.

lefty10spro
04-28-2005, 08:14 PM
This is very special and unique clay court domination for one so young. But yes, RG must be won and the pressure is ALL on Nadal!!

MichaelNadal
07-24-2014, 02:45 AM
Can Nadal domainate clays like Muster did? Can Nadal be the new "King of the Clay"?

http://scontent-a.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xpf1/t51.2885-15/10424453_240158722847638_1023259405_a.jpg

;) last bump for today, but great stuff in this thread :)

As mentioned by joeman957 Nadal doesn't have the stamina to play 7 best of 5 matches. He gets tired playing 1 best of 5 match, so it may be a bit of a challenge for him this year though if he can build some stamina then he should have a good chance.

Russeljones
07-24-2014, 02:47 AM
You are shameless MN :)

Rock Strongo
07-24-2014, 03:05 AM
So... This never happened...

Phoenix1983
07-24-2014, 03:23 AM
Nah, I don't think Nadal has it in him.

Classic bump. :)

octobrina10
07-24-2014, 03:24 AM
Royalty.
Spain's King Juan Carlos congratulates the new King of Clay for winning his first FO trophy in 2005:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqQq3ojCUAIsCUC.png

The Green Mile
07-24-2014, 03:28 AM
Nadal? Gasquet? Gasquet? Nadal? That is the question.

I think you got your answer.

The_Order
07-24-2014, 03:55 AM
Some of these "experts" early on really good for a laugh:

I think if Gaudio can get his game together he will surpass nadal.

Nadal would definitely be the winner of Roland Garros... if it were all best 2 out of 3 sets.

However, it doesn't seem like there was so much hate for Rafa like there is now. I wonder why :lol:

beast of mallorca
07-24-2014, 07:40 AM
http://scontent-a.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xpf1/t51.2885-15/10424453_240158722847638_1023259405_a.jpg

;) last bump for today, but great stuff in this thread :)

Epic bump MN.......Sweeeeetnesss :)

Omega_7000
07-24-2014, 07:51 AM
Some of these "experts" early on really good for a laugh:


http://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/02/11/Captain_Hindsight_766605.jpg

Down_the_line
07-24-2014, 07:56 AM
Some thread bumps are totally surreal. This is one of them.

I remember that 2005 Miami final clearly. I was pretty annoyed, even though Federer won. Couldn't believe this punk in clam diggers pushed Federer to the brink.

Then I was even more peeved after the 2006 French Open final. Then the 2008 Wimbledon final. Then the 2009 Australian Open final. Ever since I've just accepted Rafa. :lol: Actually, it's made it easier to like and appreciate him now that he's becoming one of the all time greats. I'm not forced to look at him as some inferior player that got the best of Federer for whatever reason.

Gorecki
07-24-2014, 08:30 AM
yes. Nitro is the king of the dirt

victorcruz
07-24-2014, 08:33 AM
He's already clinched King of Clay.

Next up : God of Clay. Vamos!

counterloop
07-24-2014, 08:53 AM
I love this thread. Thanks MN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jg153040
07-24-2014, 10:08 AM
He's already clinched King of Clay.

Next up : God of Clay. Vamos!

I think that he even has God of Clay title clinched.

Fed and Nole are amazing clay court players, but they can't touch Rafa at RG.
He makes them look much worse than they are.

FormerNadalFan
07-24-2014, 10:10 AM
King of RG for sure. King of clay? I don't know; the Djoker has taken him down scratch-and-sniff several times on clay.

octobrina10
07-24-2014, 10:52 AM
King of RG for sure. King of clay? I don't know; the Djoker has taken him down scratch-and-sniff several times on clay.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtVKkOGCAAANXEl.png

BigServer1
07-24-2014, 11:13 AM
Threads from nine years ago sure were "nicer".

TahoeTennis
07-24-2014, 11:46 AM
This was the GOAT of prediction/destiny threads!

FormerNadalFan
07-24-2014, 11:51 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtVKkOGCAAANXEl.png

Yeah, great stats. However, how do the stats look for the last three years?

SpicyCurry1990
07-24-2014, 12:01 PM
Yeah, great stats. However, how do the stats look for the last three years?

Strangely enough, almost no drop off at all

Career clay court win % = 92.9% (318-24)
Last 3 years clay court win % = 93.5% (87-6)

Career clay titles = 45 in 10 years = 4.5 per year average
Last 3 year clay titles = 13 in 3 years = 4.33 per year average

The Green Mile
07-24-2014, 12:39 PM
King of RG for sure. King of clay? I don't know; the Djoker has taken him down scratch-and-sniff several times on clay.

Lol........Djokovic aint got sh1t on Nadal when it comes to clay. The most clay losses he is has ever had to a single player is 4......... and even then, only Gaudio has managed to get 3 clay wins against Nadal.

I think Borg had 6 clay losses to a specific player, can't remeber the name..... Panatta?

Nadal is the King Of Clay. To me anyways.....

MichaelNadal
07-24-2014, 01:18 PM
Nadal is amazing...I hope I get a chance to see him in person. Only 18, his game will improve in the next several years...

He's still just as amazing :)

I believe Nadal is deliberately playing down hes chances at Rolad Garos , although deep down he knows he can beat anyone on clay 5 sets or not.

He probably still feels this way tbh.

Some thread bumps are totally surreal. This is one of them.

I remember that 2005 Miami final clearly. I was pretty annoyed, even though Federer won. Couldn't believe this punk in clam diggers pushed Federer to the brink.

Then I was even more peeved after the 2006 French Open final. Then the 2008 Wimbledon final. Then the 2009 Australian Open final. Ever since I've just accepted Rafa. :lol: Actually, it's made it easier to like and appreciate him now that he's becoming one of the all time greats. I'm not forced to look at him as some inferior player that got the best of Federer for whatever reason.

Great post man :)

counterloop
07-24-2014, 06:17 PM
Threads from nine years ago sure were "nicer".

You have to consider there was no history of Nadal at the time. Nobody had any negative thing to say because he was just starting to get noticed on tour.

tipsa...don'tlikehim!
07-24-2014, 07:27 PM
Nadal? Gasquet? Gasquet? Nadal? That is the question.

posted in 2005.... that makes me sad for Gasquet, I wish it was 2005 again and Gasquet had a much better career... not even a grand slam final and Nadal has 14 GS.
Gasquet was dominating Nadal everytime when they were both kids.

tipsa...don'tlikehim!
07-24-2014, 07:28 PM
I think that he even has God of Clay title clinched.

Fed and Nole are amazing clay court players, but they can't touch Rafa at RG.
He makes them look much worse than they are.

Spot on.

MichaelNadal
07-24-2014, 08:16 PM
Spot on.

Nadal will always be the KOC. Whoever wins the FO next after him will just be the current best player on clay. Unless they win at least 9 FO's of course.

BigServer1
07-24-2014, 08:47 PM
You have to consider there was no history of Nadal at the time. Nobody had any negative thing to say because he was just starting to get noticed on tour.

Yeah but there were still rivalries and heated discussions about players. Could Federer and/or Nadal really be THAT polarizing that it takes what used to be in large part semi thoughtful, respectful discussions and morph them into whatever the hell we're seeing these days? If so people need to get over it. Debating is fine and healthy, but what we see here is on a different level of trolling.

MichaelNadal
07-24-2014, 09:13 PM
Yeah but there were still rivalries and heated discussions about players. Could Federer and/or Nadal really be THAT polarizing that it takes what used to be in large part semi thoughtful, respectful discussions and morph them into whatever the hell we're seeing these days? If so people need to get over it. Debating is fine and healthy, but what we see here is on a different level of trolling.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. The change from when I joined to now is HUGE and it's literally 80% based on Nadal accomplishing things people didn't want him to or think he could. So sad how PERSONAL these people take tennis.