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Heroesque
12-27-2009, 04:35 PM
I'm having trouble slicing on both fh and bh

For my fh, I don't slice much, but I use it sparingly on EXTREMELY low shots, shots I can barely get to, and often on serve returns.
It pops up really high, giving my oppoenent a easy winner or setting me into a defensive position.

For my bh, I need it mainly for low shots because my bh is mainly power and no spin. I need the slice for anything that bounces 2 ft or less probably :???:

My slice is really inconsistent, some (mainly bh) end up in the net, others pop up high into sitters.

Tips? I looked on fyb but there weren't any videos on slices (that I could find).

dozu
12-27-2009, 06:35 PM
I don't like the term 'slice'....

there are plenty of threads about the bh slice... but the fh works basically the same way.

you should envision more of a 'pushing' motion, instead of 'cutting' motion... and the underspin as only a by-product (not the purpose) of this motion.

Bungalo Bill
12-28-2009, 07:22 AM
I'm having trouble slicing on both fh and bh

For my fh, I don't slice much, but I use it sparingly on EXTREMELY low shots, shots I can barely get to, and often on serve returns.
It pops up really high, giving my oppoenent a easy winner or setting me into a defensive position.

For my bh, I need it mainly for low shots because my bh is mainly power and no spin. I need the slice for anything that bounces 2 ft or less probably :???:

My slice is really inconsistent, some (mainly bh) end up in the net, others pop up high into sitters.

Tips? I looked on fyb but there weren't any videos on slices (that I could find).

For some players that are having difficulty with the slice shots and are popping it up it is obviously because your racquet face is too open at the time you make contact.

So there are several areas that could be contributing to this:

1. Your contact point is too far in front: For the slice shots, because your wrist is fixed and your arm works as a lever, mastering the contact point for your slice FH or BH is very important. You could also have an inconsistent FH slice because of an inconsistent contact point especially since you mentioned you use it on tougher balls.

2. Your balance: The slice shot requires you to be in balance when you make the shot. It is not a power shot where you can fight off things and still pull off the shot. The slice shot is a timing shot and you need to stay balanced over your front foot for both the BH and the FH. You can perform a slice FH with an open stance however, you need to have command of you arm segments (shoulder, elbow, wrist) to ensure you do not turn the racquet face open too soon. Your feet need to help you hit a slice shot.

3. Controlling your arm segments: Too much elbow and wrist action can be banes for a slice shot that is inconsistent. Many people use too much elbowaction and/or wrist action in their motion. If you do this, you are simply asking for an inconsistent shot. Yes, at times, you will nail it and it will feel so good that you think you are finally "getting it". However, over time, you will only experience heartache. When you introduce inappropriate use of the elbow and wrist area, many players develop a chopping motion which can produce a lot of short balls. What this also does is cause the player to overswing with their motion just to get the ball to go deeper. The arm in the slice should work as a unit and is swung form the shoulders. It uses a strong base from the legs and sweeps through the contact zone for your shot.

4. Understanding the slice and how it works: Air pressure/flow on the bottom of the ball is greater than the air pressure/flow on the top of the ball. Knowing this, a player can take advantage of it. What this ultimately means for you as a player is you don't have to swing as hard to get the ball to dart through the air. The swing for the slice does not require the same effort as you would with topspin. Because there is greater air pressure on the bottom of the ball, it will glide through the air farther and faster than hitting with topspin. So knowing this you need to take an appropriate swing to get the ball moving.

5. Forehand slice: It is tougher to control the forehand slice which is why a lot of players don't use it. However, if you like it, read the information on arm segments and learn how to keep your racquet face more closed than you think or keep it at the right angle longer through your swing. In my playing days, we had to have all the shots including the slice forehand. It's a great shot when you know how to use it.

6. Drive through the ball: I am assuming your technique is good (good shoulder turn, etc...). Many people get confused with the slice backhand being more of a downward swing. This probably comes from saying "swing up on the ball" for topspin. Or swing low to high! Naturally, you would think a player would need to swing high to low for slice and leave it there. Not so. The slice shot is more of a high-low-high shot. Or, many would say it is more flat than one would think. Depending on what you are doing with the ball, they are right. The slice shot is a shot that is a flattened stroke at the trough as it makes contact with the ball. I do know there is another way to slice and I have some notes here on the three types. However, for now, just think of swinging through the ball and extending towards the target.

7. TW Info For the Slice: I and others have written great information on the slice shots. Anywhere from grips to stance, you can look it up and find what you need.

W Cats
12-28-2009, 08:45 AM
Hey BB, I've adopted the EBH/Conti grip for my BH slice and works well for me in not having too open a face especially on torso level balls. I think it may have to do with my 5'7' stature. Do you think a shift to EFH/Conti from full Conti would do the same for my FH slice?

Bungalo Bill
12-28-2009, 09:59 AM
Hey BB, I've adopted the EBH/Conti grip for my BH slice and works well for me in not having too open a face especially on torso level balls. I think it may have to do with my 5'7' stature. Do you think a shift to EFH/Conti from full Conti would do the same for my FH slice?

Yes, it might. The main thing is to make sure you are consistent with your swing and how you use your arm. From there, you can alter the grip and define your contact point.

Remember that the slice backhand does not need as much effort as the topspin does. To be safe, I usually paint a picture in players minds to use 30% less than you would hitting a topspin ball. This helps a player visualize using the airflow on the bottom of the ball to allow their ball to slice through the air without it going long.

W Cats
12-28-2009, 10:08 AM
Thanks BB. Hope you had a great holiday in Boise.

KenC
12-28-2009, 10:40 AM
Interesting that there is interest in a slice FH. I used to use it a long time ago for high balls but it seems to have fallen out of favor in the modern power game. Just for fun I started trying to hit hard FH slice shots. They are low percentage compared to topspin shots, but they do have potential against topspin junkies, especially when hit deep and then they skid and stay low. I still am not convinced the FH slice has a place anymore and would love to hear BB's and other's opinion if it is worth pursuing.

Slazenger07
12-28-2009, 11:32 AM
For the slice you must envision carving the ball, you dont want to hit it hard necessarily although with a good extension and contact you can. You want your racquet to be higher than the ball right before contact, contact it in front of your body, carve the ball from high to low with the racquet slightly angled at contact (not perpendicular to the court) extend your racquet head towards your target use your legs and step into the shot to give it some pace. Remember on the backhand slice to keep your shoulder turned at contact, you dont want to open up on the shot cause you will lose control.

Its a tricky shot to get the feel of at first but once you do it can be a great weapon, its definitely one of my best shots.

dozu
12-28-2009, 12:36 PM
Interesting that there is interest in a slice FH. I used to use it a long time ago for high balls but it seems to have fallen out of favor in the modern power game. Just for fun I started trying to hit hard FH slice shots. They are low percentage compared to topspin shots, but they do have potential against topspin junkies, especially when hit deep and then they skid and stay low. I still am not convinced the FH slice has a place anymore and would love to hear BB's and other's opinion if it is worth pursuing.

prolly no place in the pro game.... but the mass is playing something entirely different... look at those threads about 5.5, 5.0 players whatever, the pace is much slower.

the fh slice reaches further than the topspin, and is easier on the right knee/hip.. there is a lot of stress on the right side when you have to hit an open stance topspin from the deuce court. (remember what ended Guga's career?)

with enough practice, I'd say it's only slightly less dependable than the bh slice. it's easier to keep the elbow close to the core on the bh than the fh.... same reason many people have better bh volley than the fh volley.

the topic of percentage depends on a lot of things. most high school kids today don't see a lot of skidding balls.... so this playing style will give many people trouble.

a short slice is much harder to attach than a short topspin sitter.... against older players, you slice on both sides and make them bend those old knees all day... should work very well also.

xFullCourtTenniSx
12-28-2009, 12:52 PM
I don't like the term 'slice'....

there are plenty of threads about the bh slice... but the fh works basically the same way.

you should envision more of a 'pushing' motion, instead of 'cutting' motion... and the underspin as only a by-product (not the purpose) of this motion.

I've actually been practicing the floating slice that goes high over the net for defensive purposes, or for a massive change up. Of course, I aim to get it deep all the time and I'm fast enough to cover the second ball.

It's nice when I can throw a high, junked slice ball near the baseline, have it die with moderate bounce, and then knife one short and low. But I haven't mastered the floater yet, so I'm going to rely on the knifer in competitive matches, which is more of a flat stroke with some high to low motion so it goes low over the net and penetrates with minimal bounce. In defensive positions, I just don't think the knifer gives me as much time as the floater, though the knifer is far more difficult to attack so I might actually have a better time transitioning from defense to offense with that.

Bungalo Bill
12-28-2009, 01:28 PM
Interesting that there is interest in a slice FH. I used to use it a long time ago for high balls but it seems to have fallen out of favor in the modern power game. Just for fun I started trying to hit hard FH slice shots. They are low percentage compared to topspin shots, but they do have potential against topspin junkies, especially when hit deep and then they skid and stay low. I still am not convinced the FH slice has a place anymore and would love to hear BB's and other's opinion if it is worth pursuing.

At the club level, absolutely can use the forehand slice. Nobody really teaches it anymore. It fell out of vogue when racquet technology and topspin became the name of the game.

At the club level, the forehand slice is a viable tool when used for approach shots or on the defense. I wouldn't recommend it for your normal forehand because it is easier to control and play with a topspin forehand.

A few people own this shot and they perhaps can do whatever they want with it.

Bungalo Bill
12-28-2009, 01:29 PM
Thanks BB. Hope you had a great holiday in Boise.

Yes had a great time with the family. Went up to Tamarack, ID to check it out. The ski resort is closed down and was the one Agassi and Stephi were investing in. Dollars should be sorted out this summer. Great location and love the scenary. Prices need to come down as they are way to high.

Wishing you the same.

GuyClinch
12-28-2009, 02:17 PM
I used to slice alot off my backhand wing but I could never get the driving slice I liked with it and it was more floaty and attackable especially in doubles. Not every time - once in a while I would hit sweet driving one.. but its just not good enough. I have since switche basically to only topspin.. (I might revert once or twice a match on an especially low ball or if I ran into some power server).

The thing is in tennis there is an opportunity cost if you play a limited amount of time. If you work on your backhand slice or even worse forehand slice your taking away from your bread and butter shots.

This is probably why even some pros don't really mix it up. I am sure all of them can hit some kinda forehand slice but its not worth it if the quality is not high.. About the only shot you see with slice off the forehand side is that is the "squash" desperation shot.