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tfm1973
01-06-2010, 03:21 AM
Originally Posted by tfm1973
i got a bet for you jolly. now that you are healthy and rested and hopefully didn't eat too much during the holidays (i know i did) - you look ready for tournaments in 2010. just enter open tournaments like you normally would in singles. by june 1st, 2010 -- if you win 25% of your matches or more i'll gladly pay you a $100 tenniswarehouse.com gift card. if you are at 24% or less in win percentage -- you pay me $100 in tenniswarehouse.com gift card.

it's a win-win. you have extra motivation for your matches. you win 25% or more of your matches and you prove to your naysayers that you belong at the Open Tournament level.

jollyroger win conditions:
-- matches must be completed. withdraws, defaults, no shows do not count.
-- all matches must be from January 1, 2010 to June 1, 2010.
-- matches must be in Men's Open Singles
-- tournaments must be USTA sanctioned
-- must win 25% or more matches

do we have a bet? the TennisWarehouse.com forum members and God can be our witnesses.

posted by Jolly

Done. *Virtual Handshake*

J

tfm1973
01-06-2010, 03:26 AM
Badda Bing! We gots ourselves a bet.

I've heard some grumblings that I should've stipulated that wins only count if they are above a 4.5 player or whatnots. I disagree. Many Open Tournament players don't have a NTRP rating. In fact it's often all they play. No biggie. If Jolly wants to find a weak tournament with a weak draw -- that's his business. I'm convinced he's more interested in testing his mettle than winning a $100 gift card to his favorite tennis outlet.

Jolly -- Good Luck in your matches! As much as I love winning bets, I'm more interested in seeing you play your best tennis and let the chips fall where they may. The only time I wanna see another tennis player lose is when they're across the net from me. :)

Please post results as you get em. Yarrrgghh!

mikro112
01-06-2010, 04:08 AM
Interesting. I have subscribed to this thread!

Good luck JOlly.

samster
01-06-2010, 04:13 AM
J011y, J011y, J011y!

PimpMyGame
01-06-2010, 04:19 AM
This thread gives me something to come back to TTW for, other than idiots arguing about jack *****. We may already have a contender for thread of the year :)

Raid
01-06-2010, 05:06 AM
awesome haha :)

Pro Staff Pete
01-06-2010, 05:13 AM
all the best of luck :)

smoothtennis
01-06-2010, 05:18 AM
If Jolly wants to find a weak tournament with a weak draw -- that's his business. I'm convinced he's more interested in testing his mettle than winning a $100 gift card to his favorite tennis outlet.


Yeah agreed now that I think about it. Good sweetness, I hope Jolly gets some early wins, so Jollygate can at least be managed in the future. I am all for someone getting better however they get movitavted to do that. And honestly, this IS fun. Better than non-stop arguing over MTM and etc.

raiden031
01-06-2010, 05:44 AM
All Jolly has to do is play up to 4 matches, and win exactly one of them and then retire for the season. :)

Kostas
01-06-2010, 05:45 AM
No minimum # of matches?

If he wins his first match then he's golden...imo. :-)

smoothtennis
01-06-2010, 05:54 AM
We'll give Jolly credit for winning any matches - just play Jolly, just play, work hard, and have fun.

goran_ace
01-06-2010, 05:59 AM
I'm taking Jolly's side on this one. A .250 winning percentage is not a very high bar to set. If he plays 6 tournaments, he only has to win two matches.

charliefedererer
01-06-2010, 07:12 AM
How about giving J011y a break?
Plenty have had fun giving him grief, apparently about his tongue in cheek assurances that he was a better match player than his record indicates.
But it's a new year.
How about letting bygones by bygones?
J011y has posted a ton of useful information and can't the J011y bating end?

LeeD
01-06-2010, 07:24 AM
Some people need a push to get competitive and do well.
Other people need to find the way themselves.
I know Jolly has posted TONS of good stuff on this site, he knows his stuff as well as anyone, and it's his choice what he does this year.
JOLLY, take this thread or leave it, it's up to you and we fully support you either way.

tfm1973
01-06-2010, 07:54 AM
charlie and LeeD -- jolly has already agreed to the bet. it's a done deal. there's no baiting involved.

LeeD
01-06-2010, 08:03 AM
Could be fun....
A few of the doubles crew I play with are also aiming at the NorCal Open Tourney schedules, a former top 5 singles from UCRiverside and a once top 30 in Japan. Be interesting to see how they match up in those events.
They kick my butt, of course.

Djokovicfan4life
01-06-2010, 09:07 AM
Better than non-stop arguing over MTM and etc.

You mean that wasn't fun to you? I was laughing my *** off for awhile there.

skyzoo
01-06-2010, 09:17 AM
I just subscribed to this thread. Go Jo11y

nyc
01-06-2010, 09:20 AM
Hmmm....what if tfm1973 = J011y...?

Hmmm..???

http://fusible.com/uploads/suspicious.jpg

mtommer
01-06-2010, 10:28 AM
Is that David Tennant?

Cindysphinx
01-06-2010, 02:07 PM
charlie and LeeD -- jolly has already agreed to the bet. it's a done deal. there's no baiting involved.

Oh, good. Did he also agree to have a thread on the subject and all of that?

Where are ya, Jolly?

Cindy -- hoping Jolly will bring home the gold

Shangri La
01-06-2010, 02:09 PM
25% win is basically to enter 4 tournaments and try to win the 1st round once.

Topaz
01-06-2010, 06:19 PM
Oh, good. Did he also agree to have a thread on the subject and all of that?

Where are ya, Jolly?

Cindy -- hoping Jolly will bring home the gold

He agreed...it was on a separate thread. I believe a new thread was started so that discussion of the bet would not continue to derail the original post.

Topaz
01-06-2010, 06:21 PM
Here are the original posts that can be tracked back...

i got a bet for you jolly. now that you are healthy and rested and hopefully didn't eat too much during the holidays (i know i did) - you look ready for tournaments in 2010. just enter open tournaments like you normally would in singles. by june 1st, 2010 -- if you win 25% of your matches or more i'll gladly pay you a $100 tenniswarehouse.com gift card. if you are at 24% or less in win percentage -- you pay me $100 in tenniswarehouse.com gift card.

it's a win-win. you have extra motivation for your matches. you win 25% or more of your matches and you prove to your naysayers that you belong at the Open Tournament level.

jollyroger win conditions:
-- matches must be completed. withdraws, defaults, no shows do not count.
-- all matches must be from January 1, 2010 to June 1, 2010.
-- matches must be in Men's Open Singles
-- tournaments must be USTA sanctioned
-- must win 25% or more matches

do we have a bet? the TennisWarehouse.com forum members and God can be our witnesses. :)

Done. *Virtual Handshake*

J

VaBeachTennis
01-06-2010, 06:26 PM
Jo11y will win the bet, hands down..............

Shangri La
01-06-2010, 07:13 PM
Jo11y will win the bet, hands down..............

Probably. OP's offer is pretty generous.

ManuGinobili
01-06-2010, 07:47 PM
Oh, good. Did he also agree to have a thread on the subject and all of that?

Where are ya, Jolly?

Cindy -- hoping Jolly will bring home the gold

This bet deserves a section of its own on TT, not just a thread

Tina
01-06-2010, 10:57 PM
You have got my vote, Jolly. I bet you will be a winner of this challenge ^_^.

AlpineCadet
01-06-2010, 11:09 PM
Sandbag for 100 bucks? Easy as pie!

tennis_balla
01-06-2010, 11:17 PM
What would be even more interesting is to have a tournament, set up by TW at a location of their choice (probably in California right ;)) with several categories for all levels and with singles and doubles. I'm sure that would make people evaluate their games a lot more and play in their respected draw and stop boasting about being so and so rated. Once the pressure's on the line people fall in place where they belong :)
This is not a shot at J0lly, I don't even know the guy. I just know he carries around more rackets then Roger Federer. Its just funny reading so many of the posts here sometimes about NTRP levels and so on.

By the way, regarding this thread. A 25% win percentage is too easy.

Bud
01-07-2010, 01:00 AM
What would be even more interesting is to have a tournament, set up by TW at a location of their choice (probably in California right ;)) with several categories for all levels and with singles and doubles. I'm sure that would make people evaluate their games a lot more and play in their respected draw and stop boasting about being so and so rated. Once the pressure's on the line people fall in place where they belong :)
This is not a shot at J0lly, I don't even know the guy. I just know he carries around more rackets then Roger Federer. Its just funny reading so many of the posts here sometimes about NTRP levels and so on.

By the way, regarding this thread. A 25% win percentage is too easy.

Agreed... too much opportunity for a 'lucky' draw... another 'open' player who really doesn't belong playing such tournaments. IMO, it should have been a minimum of 2 open level match wins or 25%... whichever is greater.

PimpMyGame
01-07-2010, 03:12 AM
By the way, regarding this thread. A 25% win percentage is too easy.

Ha ha, not from where I'm sitting. Mine was 0% last summer in LTA events!

Cindysphinx
01-07-2010, 03:34 AM
Topaz, thanks for the clarification.

Good luck, Jolly!!

MichaelChang
01-07-2010, 05:14 AM
So when is the first match.

goran_ace
01-07-2010, 05:44 AM
25% win is basically to enter 4 tournaments and try to win the 1st round once.

No, 3 tournaments. Otherwise his record would be 1-4 for a 0.200 winning precentage. You are forgetting that after he wins that first round match he still has to play a second rounder.

sapient007
01-07-2010, 07:12 AM
so jolly actually agreed to this?

SirSweetSpot
01-07-2010, 07:18 AM
The bet should have been something like winning 1 ATP point, like that Elizabeth Shue is trying to do.

OrangeOne
01-07-2010, 07:21 AM
What's the minimum number of tournaments / matches?

1 lucky win in the first 3 tournaments and there's zero incentive to keep playing (from the perspective of the bet).

Cindysphinx
01-07-2010, 07:49 AM
No, 3 tournaments. Otherwise his record would be 1-4 for a 0.200 winning precentage. You are forgetting that after he wins that first round match he still has to play a second rounder.

He could default after the first match. :)

sureshs
01-07-2010, 07:52 AM
Should be in Odd and Ends, not here.

10ACE
01-07-2010, 07:56 AM
Good Thing JollyRoger is in the North East- Florida open tournaments are semi pro/ challenger level

tfm1973
01-07-2010, 08:46 AM
1 -- is this too easy a bet for Jolly? don't think so. as has been posted in other threads his winning percentage in Open Tournaments has historically been 10% or so. this means he has to double his winning percentage.

2 - couldn't Jolly just enter 1 tournament and win 1 match? absolutely but it'll be pretty obvious to anyone if that is what he wants to do. i honestly think he wants to improve and show to others that he's a maligned player. playing tourneys and winning will accomplish that.

3 - should this thread be moved? that's fine with me. the mods are welcome to move the thread.

4 - does Jolly agree with this thread? i'm pretty sure he does because he agreed to this bet openly in another forum. we virtually handshook and everything. that's about as legal a cyberthread can be.

SirSweetSpot
01-07-2010, 08:56 AM
Did he have his virtual fingers crossed?

SuperDuy
01-07-2010, 09:33 AM
Can you video any matches jolly?

sapient007
01-07-2010, 09:35 AM
3 pages and seems like j0lly have virtually flaked already

JHBKLYN
01-07-2010, 11:39 PM
1 -- is this too easy a bet for Jolly? don't think so. as has been posted in other threads his winning percentage in Open Tournaments has historically been 10% or so. this means he has to double his winning percentage.



When I was a 3.0, I entered my first open tournament and won my opening round. The tournament director pitted me against this other 3.0. Fortunately for me, I was on the higher end of 3.0 and he was at the lower end and I won 6-1, 7-5. So yeah, it could be an easy bet to win since some tournament directors will put 2 lower rated players against each other in the first round so one of them can tell their grandchildren they won a round in an open tournament!

Topaz
01-08-2010, 04:01 AM
When I was a 3.0, I entered my first open tournament and won my opening round. The tournament director pitted me against this other 3.0. Fortunately for me, I was on the higher end of 3.0 and he was at the lower end and I won 6-1, 7-5. So yeah, it could be an easy bet to win since some tournament directors will put 2 lower rated players against each other in the first round so one of them can tell their grandchildren they won a round in an open tournament!

I had a similar experience last year...I'm a 3.5, entered a local open, and won my first match against a 3.0. Got blown off the court by a 5.0 in the next round, but still ended up with a sectional open singles ranking due to the first win.

I call it the 'Topaz Effect'! LOL

Still, I think are experiences are definitely *not* the norm!

If the tournament is USTA sanctioned, then the draw is done electronically in TennisLink, and their is no 'input' from the director.

raiden031
01-08-2010, 05:12 AM
I had a similar experience last year...I'm a 3.5, entered a local open, and won my first match against a 3.0. Got blown off the court by a 5.0 in the next round, but still ended up with a sectional open singles ranking due to the first win.

I call it the 'Topaz Effect'! LOL

Still, I think are experiences are definitely *not* the norm!

If the tournament is USTA sanctioned, then the draw is done electronically in TennisLink, and their is no 'input' from the director.

This is why I think there should at least be a 2 win minimum, such that we can allow for a possibility of one lucky draw.

Topaz
01-08-2010, 06:04 AM
This is why I think there should at least be a 2 win minimum, such that we can allow for a possibility of one lucky draw.

But if that is all he does, then don't you think he'd be criticized for taking the easy way out? It would certainly show a lack of character, and I don't think Jolly would be happy with that.

And, for the record, he *did* accept the challenge on the other thread...curious that he hasn't commented here yet.

samster
01-08-2010, 07:39 AM
J011y, J011y, J011y!

drakulie
01-08-2010, 09:26 AM
This is J011y proving he is a good player.

and if he loses, would this somehow mean he is a "bad player"??

How about if he wins this bet, but goes 1-3 (33% win percentage). Would this mean he is a good or bad player?

How about if he beats someone in the first round of a tourney, and his opponent is a NTRP 2.5? Again, is he a good or bad player?

Just wanted some clarification, because I don't recall the issue ever being he was "good" or bad". The issue was more revolved around the fact that he be-littled players beneath 5.0??? level (especially the 3.5 crowd), and stated he was "above them", when in fact he is around a 3.5 himself.

Now, whether *YOU* define 3.5 as "good or bad" is your personal opinion.

Ambivalent
01-08-2010, 11:47 AM
Can I put 100 dollars against you J011y

AlpineCadet
01-08-2010, 01:32 PM
Someone Needs To Film It!

dennis10is
01-08-2010, 05:43 PM
Just wanted some clarification, because I don't recall the issue ever being he was "good" or bad". The issue was more revolved around the fact that he be-littled players beneath 5.0??? level (especially the 3.5 crowd), and stated he was "above them", when in fact he is around a 3.5 himself.

Now, whether *YOU* define 3.5 as "good or bad" is your personal opinion.

Why are you inflating Jolly's abilities. You know "for a fact" that Jolly is NOT 3.5. He's more like 3.0. So, stop hyping him up.

Jolly should be begging Topaz to forgive him and to give him tennis pointers. A benchmark woman 3.5 like Topaz should be able to handle someone like Jolly.

I don't care what level you are, an NTRP 3.5 is basically God and everyone should pay respect to these Olympians. I've been playing tennis for 30 years and I'm only a 2.5 and I had many lessons from day one.

A 3.5 is basically as close as mortals can get to a Federer or Nadal. Jolly is certain no 3.5. He may never reach that level of tennis expertise.

Aside, I remember reading somewhere that you and Topaz are engaged? Have you guys tied the knot? If so, congrats.

Topaz
01-08-2010, 05:52 PM
Aside, I remember reading somewhere that you and Topaz are engaged? Have you guys tied the knot? If so, congrats.

Awww thanks Dennis, you're so sweet!

BTW, we are registered at TW. I know you would want to get us started off with a bang! Please, we need to save money for my therapy...because I will need extensive counseling being married to a Cowboy's fan!

smoothtennis
01-08-2010, 06:03 PM
Why are you inflating Jolly's abilities. You know "for a fact" that Jolly is NOT 3.5. He's more like 3.0. So, stop hyping him up.

Jolly should be begging Topaz to forgive him and to give him tennis pointers. A benchmark woman 3.5 like Topaz should be able to handle someone like Jolly.

I don't care what level you are, an NTRP 3.5 is basically God and everyone should pay respect to these Olympians. I've been playing tennis for 30 years and I'm only a 2.5 and I had many lessons from day one.

A 3.5 is basically as close as mortals can get to a Federer or Nadal. Jolly is certain no 3.5. He may never reach that level of tennis expertise.

Aside, I remember reading somewhere that you and Topaz are engaged? Have you guys tied the knot? If so, congrats.

Serious question Dennis - are you the guy in NY that doesn't count points for yourself if you didn't mean to hit the spot that won you the point?

Topaz
01-08-2010, 06:05 PM
Serious question Dennis - are you the guy in NY that doesn't count points for yourself if you didn't mean to hit the spot that won you the point?

I believe that was mtommer.

tfm1973
01-08-2010, 06:09 PM
hey guys stop hijacking jolly's and my thread. just want to go over some key points.

1 - jolly agreed to this bet without a gun to his head. i applaud his confidence in his game and his abilities.
2 - can't speak for others but i don't root for jolly to lose. i am however interested in seeing where the chips fall. if he wins 25% or more -- i'm satisfied that i misjudged his skills and he really is an open tournament level player which in my estimation suggests he's likely a 4.5+ player.
3 - if his win percentage is less than 24% -- it lends credence (but doesn't prove) that his skills are likely below 4.5 level play.
4 - nobody in this thread is saying that to play less than 4.5 is anything to be ashamed of -- i think it's been proven that over 90% of people who pick up a racquet will never reach 4.5 standard play.
5 - lastly and most importantly, jolly has been nothing but civil and a gentleman throughout an awful lot of razzing which also earns my grudging respect. so if anyone wants to give the guy grief - start your own thread. i want this thread focusing on our bet and one poster's personal goal of being the best player he can be.

back on topic -- i understand that jolly entered his first tournament of the new year. once i find results -- i or jolly will post results.

tfm1973
01-08-2010, 06:26 PM
near as i know - jolly agreed to the bet. he didn't agree to post results or post at all regarding the bet. leave the guy alone to his tennis. go work on your own game doods.

for example right now i'm trying to figure out if i should wear white tennis socks or black tennis socks when playing. i think i look cooler in black socks but i believe my win percentage is not as good as when i wear white socks. my coach however suggests i wear nike and not adidas. i have a lot to sort out with my tennis game.

Leelord337
01-08-2010, 06:41 PM
i think jo11y's going to win the bet, i mean what if he plays a kid who's under 18? after-all kids can't enter any level other than open level... :)

tfm1973
01-08-2010, 06:42 PM
Update:

Jolly loses to a 5.0 computer rated player. Didn't see the match but looks like a respectable and competitive match on paper.

2-6, 4-6

2010 Season Total: 0-1 (0% Win Percentage)

mtommer
01-08-2010, 09:43 PM
near as i know - jolly agreed to the bet. he didn't agree to post results or post at all regarding the bet. leave the guy alone to his tennis. go work on your own game doods.

for example right now i'm trying to figure out if i should wear white tennis socks or black tennis socks when playing. i think i look cooler in black socks but i believe my win percentage is not as good as when i wear white socks. my coach however suggests i wear nike and not adidas. i have a lot to sort out with my tennis game.

Ahhh, I see your problem, you're supposed to wear your white socks until they turn black with dirt and then play tennis in them. :)

AlpineCadet
01-08-2010, 09:45 PM
J011yroger's existance gives us all the opportunity to troll each other. Let's take time to bless him for being in our TTW lives. BTW, IMO, mtommer doesn't belong in any TTW thread that has meaning. He should take his teen years somewhere else.

OrangeOne
01-08-2010, 10:16 PM
I wonder how much money it'd take to bribe out a few open wins....

(Yes, I am just stirring....)

AlpineCadet
01-08-2010, 10:28 PM
I wonder how much money it'd take to bribe out a few open wins....

(Yes, I am just stirring....)
There are so many gimpy, slow footed, handicapped internet warriors... why choose j011yroger over the rest? :confused:

Oh wait, I remember now. :evil:

Continue on.

aphex
01-09-2010, 03:30 AM
Update:

Jolly loses to a 5.0 computer rated player. Didn't see the match but looks like a respectable and competitive match on paper.

2-6, 4-6

2010 Season Total: 0-1 (0% Win Percentage)

that's a good result actually--
he only used to get breadsticked and bagelled by 5.0s

Topaz
01-09-2010, 03:37 AM
^^^Yes, that result shows some solid improvement!

raiden031
01-09-2010, 06:37 AM
when in fact he is around a 3.5 himself.


For those familiar with his results, how true is this statement? Is he a 3.5 because he lost to some 3.5s, or because he got beat badly by some 4.0s?

I mean I've lost very badly to 4.0s, but then when I play 3.5s I play like a 4.0 against them and they say I'm definitely a 4.0.

But Jolly's results against a 5.0 definitely show he's better than a 3.5.

Cindysphinx
01-09-2010, 06:46 AM
Wow. Jolly took six games off of a 5.0?

I think I would cough up a golden set to a 5.0. You *go* Jolly!!!!

papa
01-09-2010, 06:55 AM
What are the latest odds on this situation and who's holding the money?

Have I mentioned my own impeccable background, expensive education, wilingness to travel anyone if someone else pays expenses, time, emazing ability to ignore the obivous, complete lack of any reasonable spelling ability, suspect mathematical skills and last but probably not that important, poor eyesight.

So, I'm ready and waiting for the call.

fruitytennis1
01-09-2010, 06:55 AM
6 games off a 5.0 is like solid 4.0 territory i would say.. if not higher. Unless mr 5.0 wasnt playing hard which is a possibility

Cindysphinx
01-09-2010, 07:09 AM
6 games off a 5.0 is like solid 4.0 territory i would say.. if not higher. Unless mr 5.0 wasnt playing hard which is a possibility

Aw, come on. Now we are going to speculate that Jolly's opponents are just phoning it in?

Do the 4.0 guys here think they could take six games off of a real 5.0? I say Jolly is sounding like high 4.0/low 4.5 territory.

Danstevens
01-09-2010, 07:40 AM
Update:

Jolly loses to a 5.0 computer rated player. Didn't see the match but looks like a respectable and competitive match on paper.

2-6, 4-6

2010 Season Total: 0-1 (0% Win Percentage)

Reasonable result for Jolly there. OK, it didn't help him in the bet but for most people, 2-6, 4-6 against a computer rated 5.0 isn't a shabby result. Hopefully that will help him to gain some respect back from certain members of the TT community.

I can only wish Jolly well in this challenge as he is, without question, one of the nicest and most helpful people on the forums. Whether he wins or loses this challenge I don't think my opinion of him will change as he seems like a genuinely nice guy. Best of luck Jolly!

J011yroger
01-09-2010, 07:42 AM
Crikey! I have a busy week and don't go on TW, and look what happens!

J

J011yroger
01-09-2010, 07:56 AM
P.S. Guy I played last night. (Fun driving to NJ after work on Friday night, and sitting on the Cross Bronx Xpy? You betcha!) is 3-11 in futures qualies, ranked 64 in National Men's open in 08 (09 rankings not done yet.)

I would call him a 5.5 if you asked my opinion, but he did have a 5.0 computer rating from 2003-2004 when he played in Florida.

Coolest guy ever, exchanged numbers and are going to practice in future.

J

J011yroger
01-09-2010, 08:05 AM
For those familiar with his results, how true is this statement? Is he a 3.5 because he lost to some 3.5s, or because he got beat badly by some 4.0s?

That statement is not true. I am familiar with his results :)

E-mail me if you want details.

J

Cindysphinx
01-09-2010, 08:09 AM
P.S. Guy I played last night. (Fun driving to NJ after work on Friday night, and sitting on the Cross Bronx Xpy? You betcha!) is 3-11 in futures qualies, ranked 64 in National Men's open in 08 (09 rankings not done yet.)

I would call him a 5.5 if you asked my opinion, but he did have a 5.0 computer rating from 2003-2004 when he played in Florida.

Coolest guy ever, exchanged numbers and are going to practice in future.

J

That's it? That's all you're gonna say?

Come on. Give it up. What was his serve like? What did he do that you couldn't handle? What seemed to give him trouble?

Some of us will never, ever face someone 5.0+. Allow me to live vicariously, will ya?

LeeD
01-09-2010, 08:15 AM
I'm not Jolly, but I'm behind him all the way.
Best guy I ever played a match against was RussellSimpson at 18 (him, I was 27). He had to enter Q like me, won Q and went to finals of the main. Following year ranked top 50 in singles in the world. Obviously can hit the ball hard, move blur, and hit deep.
I played JoaroSoares, #1 for Pepperdine, the previous year. He ended up 2 years after I lost to him at top 30 in the Men's Pro tour. He was good too.
Me, I took up motocross and continues surfing....:):)

J011yroger
01-09-2010, 08:20 AM
That's it? That's all you're gonna say?

Come on. Give it up. What was his serve like? What did he do that you couldn't handle? What seemed to give him trouble?

Some of us will never, ever face someone 5.0+. Allow me to live vicariously, will ya?

I don't want to sound like I am making excuses :)

J

Topaz
01-09-2010, 08:29 AM
For those familiar with his results, how true is this statement? Is he a 3.5 because he lost to some 3.5s, or because he got beat badly by some 4.0s?

I mean I've lost very badly to 4.0s, but then when I play 3.5s I play like a 4.0 against them and they say I'm definitely a 4.0.

But Jolly's results against a 5.0 definitely show he's better than a 3.5.

While results against higher levels say one thing, results against lower levels (such as 3.0) say the same thing...such as, if I get some games off of a 5.0, that is spectacular, right?

But if a 3.0 takes five games off of me...it muddles things, wouldn't you say?

If I never beat a 4.0 in an actual match, would you call me a 4.5? I think not...

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 09:04 AM
Aw, come on. Now we are going to speculate that Jolly's opponents are just phoning it in?

Do the 4.0 guys here think they could take six games off of a real 5.0? I say Jolly is sounding like high 4.0/low 4.5 territory.


It's impossible to say without actually seeing jolly play a real match or what his opponent played like. 5.0 rated on paper does not mean that much.


If jolly was really a 5.0+ open level caliber player than he should have no trouble winning a 4.0 tournament. I would like to officially make a bet he can not win a big draw 4.0 tournament. I can escrow.

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 09:15 AM
Just wanted some clarification, because I don't recall the issue ever being he was "good" or bad". The issue was more revolved around the fact that he be-littled players beneath 5.0??? level (especially the 3.5 crowd), and stated he was "above them", when in fact he is around a 3.5 himself.

Now, whether *YOU* define 3.5 as "good or bad" is your personal opinion.


I've got $500 that you can not win a 3.5 tournament in florida.

J011yroger
01-09-2010, 09:18 AM
It's impossible to say without actually seeing jolly play a real match or what his opponent played like. 5.0 rated on paper does not mean that much.


If jolly was really a 5.0+ open level caliber player than he should have no trouble winning a 4.0 tournament. I would like to officially make a bet he can not win a big draw 4.0 tournament. I can escrow.

Hey, welcome back. Please first pay me the $20 you bet me and lost.

Thanks.

J

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 09:33 AM
Are you going to enter a 4.0 tournament jolly? You might actually enjoy it.

Topaz
01-09-2010, 09:34 AM
It's impossible to say without actually seeing jolly play a real match or what his opponent played like. 5.0 rated on paper does not mean that much.



Ahhh, look, yet another poster who has no clue what ratings mean and how they are acquired.

A 5.0 on paper means he is competitive with other 5.0 rated players (he either beats them or has competitive losses to them)...it is proven through results in actual matches.

A computer rating of 5.0 actually does mean pretty much.

:roll:

Topaz
01-09-2010, 09:34 AM
I've got $500 that you can not win a 3.5 tournament in florida.


Drak would not be allowed to enter a 3.5 tournament, since his NTRP is higher than that.

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 09:35 AM
Ahhh, look, yet another poster who has no clue what ratings mean and how they are acquired.



Sure, you can get a 5.0 computer rating from playing doubles on a 5.0 team and never win a match.

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 09:40 AM
Drak would not be allowed to enter a 3.5 tournament, since his NTRP is higher than that.


I doubt he is ranked in 4.0-5.0 ntrp in florida. Nobody would say anything if he entered a usta tournament in 3.5's.

smoothtennis
01-09-2010, 10:46 AM
Great result there Jolly - very nice score. Now C'mon - giving up some details about he match surely isn't considered excuses. You got a 4-6 set of a 5.0. I would hold my head high.

I assume you were holding serve decently in that second set? Was the guy a power machine, S&V, all courter, retriever?

Was there no consolation in this one?

Mansewerz
01-09-2010, 10:53 AM
Great result there Jolly - very nice score. Now C'mon - giving up some details about he match surely isn't considered excuses. You got a 4-6 set of a 5.0. I would hold my head high.

I assume you were holding serve decently in that first set? Was the guy a power machine, S&V, all courter, retriever?

Was there no consolation in this one?

My guess is the guy was a consistent baseliner. Jo11y was probably missing his spots in the first, and started to find them in the second set.


As for Ultra2HolyGrail, how come you haven't paid Jo11y yet?

JHBKLYN
01-09-2010, 11:29 AM
That statement is not true. I am familiar with his results :)

E-mail me if you want details.

J

Hi J011yroger, I wouldn't mind playing you in a match. I've taken a lot of tennis videos and looked at yours. Skills wise, you are not a 3.5, and most likely not a 4.0. You're probably in the 4.5 range and up. Ratings wise, I'm not sure since you don't play USTA leagues but you would be 4.0 and up. I'm a USTA rated 4.0 player and I've played players who weren't sure what their NTRP rating is and let them know where they should rate.

If you're an early riser, there are courts at NTC from 6am to 8am weekdays for $20 an hour. I can also play at Alley Pond or if you know another place, let me know!

Topaz
01-09-2010, 11:31 AM
I doubt he is ranked in 4.0-5.0 ntrp in florida. Nobody would say anything if he entered a usta tournament in 3.5's.

Ok, I'll spell it out for you.

USTA tournaments are on Tennislink, where results from tournaments and leagues are posted. You can sign up right there, nice and easy, with your USTA # (which you have to have to play in USTA sanctioned events).

However, if you are going to play an NTRP tournament, you must *not* be rated higher than the level of the tournament.

So, for example, I am a computer rated 3.5. The computer simply would not allow me to enter a 3.0 tournament. The ratings are stored in the computer, and the moment I put in my USTA#, the system knew who I was and what my rating is. And I simply could not sign up for a 3.0 tournament.

The one time I saw this rule broken is when a director manually entered a person. He put a 4.0 player in a 3.5 doubles tournament. She (and her partner) won. Complaints were plenty.

Now, again, Drak WOULD NOT BE ABLE to enter a 3.5 tournament because HIS RATING IS TOO HIGH. Got it? So, sorry to burst your bubble, but perhaps you should learn how the system works before you speculate?

And ratings are national (that is what the 'N' in NTRP stands for)...there is no such things as a FL 4.0 and a VA 4.0.

It is very obvious from your posts that you neither play NTRP or have a clue how it works. You should hook up with mtommer.

And pay up. You lose a bet, you pay up.

JHBKLYN
01-09-2010, 11:42 AM
I had a similar experience last year...I'm a 3.5, entered a local open, and won my first match against a 3.0. Got blown off the court by a 5.0 in the next round, but still ended up with a sectional open singles ranking due to the first win.

I call it the 'Topaz Effect'! LOL

Still, I think are experiences are definitely *not* the norm!

If the tournament is USTA sanctioned, then the draw is done electronically in TennisLink, and their is no 'input' from the director.

I also lost in the second round almost as bad as yours: 6-0, 6-1. I just checked my open singles ranking for that year and I was actually ranked 271!! If I had known that, I could've intimidated people by saying: "You sure you want to play against the 271st best singles player in this area?" :)

JHBKLYN
01-09-2010, 11:53 AM
near as i know - jolly agreed to the bet. he didn't agree to post results or post at all regarding the bet. leave the guy alone to his tennis. go work on your own game doods.

for example right now i'm trying to figure out if i should wear white tennis socks or black tennis socks when playing. i think i look cooler in black socks but i believe my win percentage is not as good as when i wear white socks. my coach however suggests i wear nike and not adidas. i have a lot to sort out with my tennis game.

Wear black socks, it looks cooler. I only buy black socks now, it doubles as tennis gear and I wear them with my shoes for non-tennis affairs.

Cindysphinx
01-09-2010, 11:54 AM
I don't want to sound like I am making excuses :)

J

Come *on* man. Are you really gonna make me beg?

Oh, those Strong Silent Types. They drive ya wild with their, "Aw, shucks ma'am. Just doin' my job."

Keep it objective, then. How many aces did each of you have? (And don't you dare say you don't recall.)

JHBKLYN
01-09-2010, 12:08 PM
... but then when I play 3.5s I play like a 4.0 against them and they say I'm definitely a 4.0.


Anybody that says that is giving themselves an excuse and making themselves feel better by thinking a higher ranked player beat them when in reality, they are just a middle of the road 3.5 or whatever their rating is. :)

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 12:21 PM
Now, again, Drak WOULD NOT BE ABLE to enter a 3.5 tournament because HIS RATING IS TOO HIGH. Got it? So, sorry to burst your bubble, but perhaps you should learn how the system works before you speculate?


I know how it works just fine thank you. I've been ranked in opens and the top in 4.5's, and played on a 5.0 team, and also a top usta junior when i played. Which is funny YOU telling me how the system works.:roll:


It is very obvious from your posts that you neither play NTRP or have a clue how it works. You should hook up with mtommer.

It's funny a 3.5 telling ME this lol.


Now, again, Drak WOULD NOT BE ABLE to enter a 3.5 tournament because HIS RATING IS TOO HIGH. Got it? So, sorry to burst your bubble, but perhaps you should learn how the system works before you speculate?

:roll: How do you know drak is even ranked or has a rating? Not saying he does not but are you just assuming this? I bet you are. If you do not have a ranking from only last year then you can enter any usta tournament unless you are well known and they won't let you play.

BullDogTennis
01-09-2010, 12:25 PM
i think there should have been a minimum of like 20 matches...or somethin. but whatever

Topaz
01-09-2010, 12:32 PM
I also lost in the second round almost as bad as yours: 6-0, 6-1. I just checked my open singles ranking for that year and I was actually ranked 271!! If I had known that, I could've intimidated people by saying: "You sure you want to play against the 271st best singles player in this area?" :)

Hey, I was 37th in my section open singles. LOL When the rankings came out, I printed off the sheet and put it somewhere...

I know how it works just fine thank you. I've been ranked in opens and the top in 4.5's, and played on a 5.0 team, and also a top usta junior when i played. Which is funny YOU telling me how the system works.:roll:

If you knew how it worked, you wouldn't have made the comments you did...such as 'FL' 3.5 or 'FL' 4.0. There's no such thing.

:roll: How do you know drak is even ranked or has a rating? Not saying he does not but are you just assuming this? I bet you are. If you do not have a ranking from only last year then you can enter any usta tournament unless you are well known and they won't let you play.

It is real easy. I go to Tennislink, I put in his last name, then his first name, and then I hit enter. Then I click on his name, and his current rating comes up.

And, you are confusing rankings and ratings. We are talking ratings. You bet Drak to enter a 3.5 tournament. 3.5 is a rating, not a ranking. Since his computer rating is higher than 3.5, Drak is unable to do this.

I guess you *did* need a 3.5 to tell you that!

Give it up already, you're making a fool of yourself.

And pay up to Jolly.

BounceHitBounceHit
01-09-2010, 12:34 PM
P.S. Guy I played last night. (Fun driving to NJ after work on Friday night, and sitting on the Cross Bronx Xpy? You betcha!) is 3-11 in futures qualies, ranked 64 in National Men's open in 08 (09 rankings not done yet.)

I would call him a 5.5 if you asked my opinion, but he did have a 5.0 computer rating from 2003-2004 when he played in Florida.

Coolest guy ever, exchanged numbers and are going to practice in future.

J

Good match J-Man. Best of luck with the 'bet'. Best, BHBH

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 12:41 PM
If you knew how it worked, you wouldn't have made the comments you did...such as 'FL' 3.5. No such thing.


Florida does not have 3.5 usta tournaments?



It is real easy. I go to Tennislink, I put in his last name, then his first name, and then I hit enter. Then I click on his name, and his current rating comes up.

And, you are confusing rankings and ratings. We are talking ratings. You bet Drak to enter a 3.5 tournament. 3.5 is a rating, not a ranking. Since his computer rating is higher than 3.5, Drak is unable to do this.

What's his rating? And yes i know ranking and ratings are different, but you could be rated a 4.5 and not been playing for years and want to enter a 4.0 tournament. UNLESS you where ranked at the top just in the last year i believe they would let you play. They just don't look up ratings to determine in you can play. Rankings are a much more important factor.

I guess you *did* need a 3.5 to tell you that!

Give it up already, you're making a fool of yourself.

And pay up to Jolly.


You obviously don't have a clue.

drakulie
01-09-2010, 12:46 PM
For those familiar with his results, how true is this statement?

If you have never beaten a 5.0, and have received plenty of bagels, you would not be a 5.0.

If you have never beaten a 4.5, and have received plenty of bagels, you would not be a 4.5.

Therefore, we conclude this player is at most 4.0.

However, if this same player struggled against a 3.0, what would you put this player at?



As for Jo11y's result in his latest match, I think he should feel good about the score. That is a solid match. Does this make him a 5.0? You be the judge.

Topaz
01-09-2010, 12:57 PM
*sigh*

Ok, one more time.

You posted these two posts...

I've got $500 that you can not win a 3.5 tournament in florida.

I doubt he is ranked in 4.0-5.0 ntrp in florida. Nobody would say anything if he entered a usta tournament in 3.5's.

Right? You posted these things? These are words that you yourself wrote. And I am *trying* to explain to you that:

#1 - Drak's rating is too high for him to enter a 3.5 tournament IN ANY STATE.

#2 - There is no such thing as being 'ranked in 4.0-5.0 ntrp in florida' as you stated above in the bold. Ntrp is one thing. Rankings are another. And NTRP is NATIONAL. It is not dependent on state.

#3 - If Drak wants his rating public, that is up to him to post. But I assure you, he is not able to play an NTRP 3.5 tournament, again, IN ANY STATE.

Florida does not have 3.5 usta tournaments?

Absolutely no where did I state that.

What's his rating?

Again, that is not my business to post.

And yes i know ranking and ratings are different, but you could be rated a 4.5 and not been playing for years and want to enter a 4.0 tournament. UNLESS you where ranked at the top just in the last year i believe they would let you play. They just don't look up ratings to determine in you can play. Rankings are a much more important factor.

The bolded part is incorrect. To play in an NTRP tournament, like you yourself challenged Drak to do and I quoted above, you enter your USTA# into the system, and that brings up your computer rating (if you have one). They don't have to look it up because, if you have a computer rating, it is already in the system. It is already right there. You have to wait a certain number of years (changes based on your age) for your rating to no longer be in the computer. Then you can start over.

At no time can someone with a computer 4.5 rating play an NTRP 4.0 (or lower). Period. Rankings play no part in this. PERIOD.

You obviously don't have a clue.

I might not, but next to you, I look like freakin' Einstein.

I'm not typing all this out for you again. You're not worth my time.

JHBKLYN
01-09-2010, 12:59 PM
While results against higher levels say one thing, results against lower levels (such as 3.0) say the same thing...such as, if I get some games off of a 5.0, that is spectacular, right?

But if a 3.0 takes five games off of me...it muddles things, wouldn't you say?

If I never beat a 4.0 in an actual match, would you call me a 4.5? I think not...

I can bandage a paper cut, does that make me a doctor?

I can change an air filter, does that make me a mechanic?

I can plunger a toilet, does that make me a plumber?

So no, if you can't beat a 4.0 in an actual match, you are not a 4.5!!!!!!!!

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 01:06 PM
#1 - Drak's rating is too high for him to enter a 3.5 tournament IN ANY STATE.

#2 - There is no such thing as being 'ranked in 4.0-5.0 ntrp in florida' as you stated above in the bold. Ntrp is one thing. Rankings are another. And NTRP is NATIONAL. It is not dependent on state.

#3 - If Drak wants his rating public, that is up to him to post. But I assure you, he is not able to play an NTRP 3.5 tournament, again, IN ANY STATE.


This is where you don't have a clue again. Ratings are well beneath rankings. You could lay off tennis for 5 years and your name and rating would probably still be in the system. THEY WOULD NOT FORCE YOU TO PLAY YOUR RATING. Especially if you where never RANKED in the usta ntrp rankings. Like i said, some hackers could make there own 5.0 team and ALL get 5.0 ratings. It can be and is many times Meaningless.




The bolded part is incorrect. To play in an NTRP tournament, like you yourself challenged Drak to do and I quoted above, you enter your USTA# into the system, and that brings up your computer rating (if you have one). They don't have to look it up because, if you have a computer rating, it is already in the system. It is already right there. You have to wait a certain number of years (changes based on your age) for your rating to no longer be in the computer. Then you can start over.

At no time can someone with a computer 4.5 rating play an NTRP 4.0 (or lower). Period. Rankings play no part in this. PERIOD.

Again, you really dont have a clue here. I would virtually gurantee drak could enter a 3.5 tournament and be accepted, because i highly doubt he is ranked in usta ntrp 4.0-4.5 in florida. He probably was on a 4.5 team to get his 'rating' i suspect.

Topaz
01-09-2010, 01:09 PM
I can bandage a paper cut, does that make me a doctor?

I can change an air filter, does that make me a mechanic?

I can plunger a toilet, does that make me a plumber?

So no, if you can't beat a 4.0 in an actual match, you are not a 4.5!!!!!!!!


Exactly, well put.

drakulie
01-09-2010, 01:12 PM
^^ultra, no one who is rated 5.0, is allowed to play down in a league or tourney (4.5, 4.0, 3.5, etc)


no one who is rated 4.5, is allowed to play down in a league or tourney (4.0, 3.5, 3.0, etc)

no one who is rated 4.0, is allowed to play down in a league or tourney (3.5, 3.0, 2.5, etc)

This is the very reason the USTA has a **rating** system. So people are playing at their level.

JHBKLYN
01-09-2010, 01:17 PM
Exactly, well put.

With that said, I was once ranked 271st in Open Men's Singles and you were ranked 37th in Open Women's singles and nobody can dispute that!

Of course, there's more that meets the eye but what people don't know won't hurt them .. :wink:

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 01:19 PM
^^ultra, no one who is rated 5.0, is allowed to play down in a league or tourney (4.5, 4.0, 3.5, etc)


no one who is rated 4.5, is allowed to play down in a league or tourney (4.0, 3.5, 3.0, etc)

no one who is rated 4.0, is allowed to play down in a league or tourney (3.5, 3.0, 2.5, etc)

This is the very reason the USTA has a **rating** system. So people are playing at their level.


They also take into consideration of your ntrp ranking or lack of. If you where not ranked at all in 4.5's ntrp in florida just in the last year i would bet you could get into a 3.5-4.0 tournament. For sure 4.0. This is how they determine seeds. Rankings. Not ratings.

drakulie
01-09-2010, 01:22 PM
They also take into consideration of your ntrp ranking or lack of. If you where not ranked at all in 4.5's ntrp in florida just in the last year i would bet you could get into a 3.5-4.0 tournament. For sure 4.0. This is how the get seeds. Rankings. Not ratings.


NO. YOU CAN'T. PERIOD. ONLY WAY FOR ONE TO DO THIS IS TO APPEAL THEIR RATING. IF THEIR APPEAL IS GRANTED, THEY WOULD BE DROPPED FROM 4.5 TO 4.0, 3.5 TO 3.0, ETC.

THE END RESULT WOULD BE, THAT THEY WOULD NO LONGER BE A 4.5. THEY WOULD BE A 4.0, ETC.

Topaz
01-09-2010, 01:23 PM
With that said, I was once ranked 271st in Open Men's Singles and you were ranked 37th in Open Women's singles and nobody can dispute that!

Of course, there's more that meets the eye but what people don't know won't hurt them .. :wink:

Well, and that is why there are ratings and then rankings, and while there is usually a correlation between the two...anomalies do happen!

We don't get many women in our Open tournaments around here (which is odd given that I'm in a metropolitan area)...so I may try my hand at it again this year!

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 01:26 PM
NO. YOU CAN'T. PERIOD. ONLY WAY FOR ONE TO DO THIS IS TO APPEAL THEIR RATING. IF THEIR APPEAL IS GRANTED, THEY WOULD BE DROPPED FROM 4.5 TO 4.0, 3.5 TO 3.0, ETC.

THE END RESULT WOULD BE, THAT THEY WOULD NO LONGER BE A 4.5. THEY WOULD BE A 4.0, ETC.


This might be true for usta teams. But for tournaments i know it's not true.

JHBKLYN
01-09-2010, 01:27 PM
They also take into consideration of your ntrp ranking or lack of. If you where not ranked at all in 4.5's ntrp in florida just in the last year i would bet you could get into a 3.5-4.0 tournament. For sure 4.0. This is how they determine seeds. Rankings. Not ratings.

Are you sure of your info or are you just speculating? If you are a USTA rated 4.0, you cannot enter a USTA Sanctioned 3.5 tournament, at least not online, and that is a fact. There's no checkbox that asks you if you are ranked in any 4.0 lists. The only way is to have the tournament director put you in manually.

drakulie
01-09-2010, 01:33 PM
This might be true for usta teams. But for tournaments i know it's not true.

If the tournament is for example, a "3.5 singles tournament", a 4.0 or higher CANNOT ENTER! Period.

If a tournament is for example, a **WOMENS** 3.5 singles tournament, NO MALE CAN ENTER. ADDITIONALLY, no female rated 4.0 or above can enter.

You are confusing ratings with rankings.

Yes, there are "rankings" for say 4.0 players. One could be "ranked" #1 4.0 in the state of Florida. And whatever 4.0 tournament he enters, he would be seeded #1 based on his "ranking" at the 4.0 level.

This is not to be confused with "national rankings" for OPEN tournaments, or age divisions.

You seriously need to get a rating, and go play some leagues before you try and educate those of us who do, on how the system works.

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 01:36 PM
Are you sure of your info or are you just speculating? If you are a USTA rated 4.0, you cannot enter a USTA Sanctioned 3.5 tournament, at least not online, and that is a fact. There's no checkbox that asks you if you are ranked in any 4.0 lists. The only way is to have the tournament director put you in manually.


So are you telling me if you sign up for a 4.0 tournament, type in your credit card info and pay, after a 5 year layoff, and your computer sytem rating is 4.5, they are going to force you to play 4.5 and above? Is the computer going to say denied, you are rated a 4.5 and can not enter? I'm not sure but i doubt it.

drakulie
01-09-2010, 01:40 PM
So are you telling me if you sign up for a 4.0 tournament, type in your credit card info and pay, after a 5 year layoff, and your computer sytem rating is 4.5, they are going to force you to play 4.5 and above? Is the computer going to say denied, you are rated a 4.5 and can not enter? I'm not sure but i doubt it.


Yes. You will be denied.

For starters, you would need to become a USTA member, and pay the registration fee to become a USTA member. Once you sign up to the USTA it will pull up your records (if you had any). If you were rated 4.5, it will keep you there. It will provide and activate your usta memberhip #. Of course, much of this is dependent on how long it has been, and other factors.

From there, you could sign up for a tourney/league, but have to give your usta #. If you try and sign up for a 3.0 tournament, and you are rated at 3.5 or above, you will be denied and not allowed to play.

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 01:43 PM
.

You seriously need to get a rating, and go play some leagues before you try and educate those of us who do, on how the system works.



Please educate me on how you got rated?

JHBKLYN
01-09-2010, 01:44 PM
So are you telling me if you sign up for a 4.0 tournament, type in your credit card info and pay, after a 5 year layoff, and your computer sytem rating is 4.5, they are going to force you to play 4.5 and above? Is the computer going to say denied, you are rated a 4.5 and can not enter? I'm not sure but i doubt it.

I will bet a million dollars you can't. But I'll save you the money. I just did a test for a 3.0-4.5 tournament and the only tournaments I'm eligible for are the 4.0 and 4.5 tourneys. I don't pay any money unless I select the tournaments I'm playing in.

Maybe you Florida guys have a different system but I don't know what else to tell you, try it yourself:

http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/playerregistration/registerplayer.aspx?T=84956

DownTheLine
01-09-2010, 01:59 PM
I still haven't figured out how people can call Jolly a 3.5 If so I guess I am a 2.0-2.5.

Topaz
01-09-2010, 02:05 PM
^^^Based on results in matches.

Topaz
01-09-2010, 02:07 PM
I will bet a million dollars you can't. But I'll save you the money. I just did a test for a 3.0-4.5 tournament and the only tournaments I'm eligible for are the 4.0 and 4.5 tourneys. I don't pay any money unless I select the tournaments I'm playing in.

Maybe you Florida guys have a different system but I don't know what else to tell you, try it yourself:

http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/playerregistration/registerplayer.aspx?T=84956

The silence is deafening!

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 02:13 PM
The silence is deafening!


Yes it is. Drakulie is being very quite ;)

Claudius
01-09-2010, 02:15 PM
I've seen his videos and he isn't that good. His forehand is technically unsound.

JHBKLYN
01-09-2010, 02:18 PM
I still haven't figured out how people can call Jolly a 3.5 If so I guess I am a 2.0-2.5.

Unfortunately, you don't get rated by how hard you serve, how massive your groundstrokes are, how accurate your vollies are, or how beautiful your backhand angles are. You get rated by match play results. From what I read, they are going by tournament results which may or may not be accurate because the 3.5 or 4.0's he lost to could've been self-raters who rated too low. But with no USTA league matches to draw stats from, there's nothing else to get a rating from.

drakulie
01-09-2010, 02:20 PM
Please educate me on how you got rated?

I used your logic.

I still haven't figured out how people can call Jolly a 3.5 If so I guess I am a 2.0-2.5.

DownTheLine, if you play one thousand matches against 5.0 players and lose every single one of them without ever winning a set would you be a 5.0? This player would be at most a 4.5

Now, if this same "4.5" played a million matches against other 4.5's and never won a match, would you say he is a 4.5? This players would be at the 4.0 level.

etc. etc.

That is how one could figure it out. NTRP rating has nothing to do with how hard someone hits the ball, or how many frames they have, or how pretty their strokes look, etc.

I find it hard to believe people don't understand this.

Cindysphinx
01-09-2010, 02:27 PM
Yes. You will be denied.

For starters, you would need to become a USTA member, and pay the registration fee to become a USTA member. Once you sign up to the USTA it will pull up your records (if you had any). If you were rated 4.5, it will keep you there. It will provide and activate your usta memberhip #. Of course, much of this is dependent on how long it has been, and other factors.

From there, you could sign up for a tourney/league, but have to give your usta #. If you try and sign up for a 3.0 tournament, and you are rated at 3.5 or above, you will be denied and not allowed to play.

I thought that if you had a rating and then didn't play for five years, you could then self-rate at any level you wanted consistent with USTA ratings guidelines. True? False?

Frankauc
01-09-2010, 02:27 PM
it's because jolly only posts vbids of him rallying and not missing one ball. So it can be misleading just looking at his vids. Real matchplay is different.

for some people its the opposite

If you watch me exchanging some balls with a friend, you will probably underestimate me. It's because my abilitly to chase ball, defense, mental toughness isnt shown in normal practice..

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 02:30 PM
I used your logic.




Sure drak, cmon now you can not fool ultra. How the heck did you manage to get on a 4.5 team? :) Was it one of them phone a team things where you phone in with your name and a team captain calls you to play?

Or did you get it by playing ntrp 4.5 singles and beating other players?

JHBKLYN
01-09-2010, 02:38 PM
I've seen his videos and he isn't that good. His forehand is technically unsound.

I think it depends on what one means by "good." First of all, if you can hit a 150mph serve and a 130mph forehand, and a 120mph backhand, does it matter how your form looks? I'm sure we've all seen players who look great hitting the ball during practice but crumble during match play. And I'm sure we've seen players who look terrible but are great match play players. The obvious example is Fabrice Santoro. How the heck is he a pro with that slice forehand???

When I look at his or anyone's videos, I don't care about their form, I look at where the serve lands, where the forehands and backhands goes, what kind of winners he hits, and if they win or lose the match. And looking at Jolly's recent vids from an amateure's pov - I considered a 5.0 to be real good, his serves and shots look pretty good.

But the reality is, unless we make money playing professional tennis, I don't care if you're a 5.0, 5.5, 6.0 or 6.5, we are really not that good. :)

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 02:45 PM
When I look at his or anyone's videos, I don't care about their form, I look at where the serve lands, where the forehands and backhands goes, what kind of winners he hits, and if they win or lose the match.


Technically you can just look at their form, technique, footwork, confidence level, just by watching them hit and not even look where the ball is going. You can tell a advanced player just by this. You can't 'hide' your level. Even if you pick the best videos of you making the best shots.

JHBKLYN
01-09-2010, 03:06 PM
Technically you can just look at their form, technique, footwork, confidence level, just by watching them hit and not even look where the ball is going. You can tell a advanced player just by this. You can't 'hide' your level. Even if you pick the best videos of you making the best shots.

If that was true, colleges would only need to sign up players watching their recruitment videos. Why bother flying in recruits and watch them play against their players. But as never judge a book by its cover, what you see is sometimes not what you get.

From what I've read here, videos of Santoro, Nadal and Verdasco were shown and people thought they were 4.5's or something where they were not "pro" level.

Some of the most difficult videos to judge are the 3.0 to maybe some 4.5 players. You can't tell if they are capable of winning matches by how they look.

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-09-2010, 03:19 PM
If that was true, colleges would only need to sign up players watching their recruitment videos. Why bother flying in recruits and watch them play against their players. But as never judge a book by its cover, what you see is sometimes not what you get.

From what I've read here, videos of Santoro, Nadal and Verdasco were shown and people thought they were 4.5's or something where they were not "pro" level.

Some of the most difficult videos to judge are the 3.0 to maybe some 4.5 players. You can't tell if they are capable of winning matches by how they look.


Of'course results are the only thing that matters. But not many really good players look horrible on video, or in person when you watch them play. There are things they all have in common. Sure some players like santoro has goofy looking strokes, but if you watch him you will see, strokes aside, he has great footwork, and moves well. And can charge the net, split step, as good as anyone. These are all things advanced players recognize from one another. Footwork and other things are easy to see if one is advanced. Hitting a bunch of shots comming straight at you in a video is not impressive. Of'course it's how you play in a real match, and results, are what's most important. That's the point here. And also that videos of 100mph serves, hitting shots comming straight at you, your rating, are meaningless unless you can win in real match results. That's all that matters.

canuckfan72
01-09-2010, 03:45 PM
With that said, I was once ranked 271st in Open Men's Singles and you were ranked 37th in Open Women's singles and nobody can dispute that!

Of course, there's more that meets the eye but what people don't know won't hurt them .. :wink:

Hey, when i was 12 i made the mistake of entering a U14 Boys *** Champs Tournament. I got lucky and the first match i played was against some 14 year old show off who i was able to beat in a close match. But then my second match was against the eventual runner up for the singles and Doubles (partner was singles champion) Champion. I lost 6-0 6-0 and got a nice "Don't Worry About It". Little did i know i ended up with like 40 points (30 for win and 10 for loss) and ended up being ranked 32nd in the Boys U14 Champs division in all of BC. I bragged to my friends about it for the rest of the summer.

Mansewerz
01-09-2010, 05:03 PM
Hey Topaz, i'm a junior and i'd like to know if there's a way to check my rank on the USTA website. How do I do this?

Claudius
01-09-2010, 05:07 PM
Mansewerz, do you have a TR profile?

purple-n-gold
01-09-2010, 05:52 PM
I thought that if you had a rating and then didn't play for five years, you could then self-rate at any level you wanted consistent with USTA ratings guidelines. True? False?

League coordinator the other night mentioned a new rule that even if a player were to "sit out" 3 years they will now have to self rate at where they had been rated at previously.

Sure drak, cmon now you can not fool ultra. How the heck did you manage to get on a 4.5 team? :) Was it one of them phone a team things where you phone in with your name and a team captain calls you to play?

Dude....you sign up on a team....according to your win,lose record....you either stay at that level, get bumped up, or get bumped down.

Or did you get it by playing ntrp 4.5 singles and beating other players?

Read my above post again slowly.....btw, there's not a team captain that I know of that's gonna have a player on their team that cannot be competitive at that level.

Topaz
01-09-2010, 05:56 PM
Hey Topaz, i'm a junior and i'd like to know if there's a way to check my rank on the USTA website. How do I do this?

Try this:

http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/rankings/rankinghome.aspx

And put in your info for section, year, etc.

This is assuming you've earned a ranking playing tournaments? So, if you've played boys 18 singles, put in boys 18 singles for your division.

Let me know if it works...I've never looked up juniors, but I would assume it is the same. Looks like you could also just enter your USTA #.

Mansewerz
01-09-2010, 06:58 PM
Mansewerz, do you have a TR profile?

Highly doubt it.

I'm 0-2, so i don't think I have a ranking yet.

But my results showed up on the tennis link. Thanks Topaz!

J011yroger
01-09-2010, 07:03 PM
Hi J011yroger, I wouldn't mind playing you in a match. I've taken a lot of tennis videos and looked at yours. Skills wise, you are not a 3.5, and most likely not a 4.0. You're probably in the 4.5 range and up. Ratings wise, I'm not sure since you don't play USTA leagues but you would be 4.0 and up. I'm a USTA rated 4.0 player and I've played players who weren't sure what their NTRP rating is and let them know where they should rate.

If you're an early riser, there are courts at NTC from 6am to 8am weekdays for $20 an hour. I can also play at Alley Pond or if you know another place, let me know!

Hey dude, I can't do the 6-8 weekdays, because I have to be at work at 8.

Weekends would probably be best for me.

Alley pond is better than NTC, closer for me as I am out on the island.

If I could con you into coming to Glen Head which should be around half way for both of us, I can get a reasonably priced court.

J

J011yroger
01-09-2010, 07:08 PM
I would hold my head high.

Was fine after the match, was fine all day today, around 5pm it started to bother me, and by the time I was leaving practice tonight carrying my racquet with the broken string, it was all that I could do to resist caving it on a telephone pole in the parking lot.

Holding my head high is the last thing I would do after losing to anyone, by any score.

Playing for real sucks.

J

J011yroger
01-09-2010, 07:15 PM
Come *on* man. Are you really gonna make me beg?

Oh, those Strong Silent Types. They drive ya wild with their, "Aw, shucks ma'am. Just doin' my job."

Keep it objective, then. How many aces did each of you have? (And don't you dare say you don't recall.)

I didn't serve particularly well, especially in the first set, less than 10 for sure, and only 1 on the 2nd serve. He was around the same, might have edged me by a couple.

I never keep track of aces, I hit them all the time so it isn't anything special. I keep track of bad stuff like UEs or DFs if anything. Aces and unreturnables just come when you get loose and are feeling it, some days I have it, and some I don't, but nothing to try for. I would rather keep track of bad things, because I hate sucking more than I enjoy playing well.

J

J011yroger
01-09-2010, 07:30 PM
My guess is the guy was a consistent baseliner. Jo11y was probably missing his spots in the first, and started to find them in the second set.


As for Ultra2HolyGrail, how come you haven't paid Jo11y yet?

Close, in the beginning I made some errors in judgement about the conditions and the state of my body, fell behind 0-4 pretty quickly, realized what was going on and righted the ship. Was 2 points from serving for 2nd set, but I coughed it.

I think I am going to have to start playing my practice matches with a 5 minute warmup, so I get used to having to warm up and evaluate what I have that day quickly, as I currently practice/drill for 1/2-1 hour, and then play practice sets.

I joined the biggest ladder on LI, and have been wrecking shop there, and it helps with the matchplay, but it isn't the same because the caliber of opponent isn't nearly as good as those in the tournaments.

Right now I feel like I am 75% of my practice match self in tournament matches, so hopefully being healthy and playing a bunch of tournaments will help me close that gap. Still a practice court hero, but scraping and clawing to close the gap.

Fortunately I haven't had a day where I completely forget how to play in a couple of months, then again, indoor season really gives my game a shot in the arm, so maybe head in *** syndrome will have a recurrence when the outdoor season begins.

J

canuckfan72
01-09-2010, 07:39 PM
I didn't serve particularly well, especially in the first set, less than 10 for sure, and only 1 on the 2nd serve. He was around the same, might have edged me by a couple.

I never keep track of aces, I hit them all the time so it isn't anything special. I keep track of bad stuff like UEs or DFs if anything. Aces and unreturnables just come when you get loose and are feeling it, some days I have it, and some I don't, but nothing to try for. I would rather keep track of bad things, because I hate sucking more than I enjoy playing well.

J

I totally agree with Jolly here. Its more important to know what you're doing wrong then to know what you're doing right.

canuckfan

J011yroger
01-09-2010, 07:45 PM
I totally agree with Jolly here. Its more important to know what you're doing wrong then to know what you're doing right.

canuckfan

You can hit lots of good shots in a point, but only one bad one.

J

mtommer
01-09-2010, 08:05 PM
Sure drak, cmon now you can not fool ultra. How the heck did you manage to get on a 4.5 team? :) Was it one of them phone a team things where you phone in with your name and a team captain calls you to play?

Or did you get it by playing ntrp 4.5 singles and beating other players?

I'm sure drakulie could be creative and figure out a way to enter a 3.5 tourney to meet your challenge.

Frankauc
01-09-2010, 08:05 PM
about aces in 2 sets is really good!

how many unforced errors?

J011yroger
01-09-2010, 08:21 PM
about aces in 2 sets is really good!

how many unforced errors?

6 or 700 :)

J

J011yroger
01-09-2010, 08:22 PM
I'm sure drakulie could be creative and figure out a way to enter a 3.5 tourney to meet your challenge.

Why? We all know that Ultra2 doesn't pay up when he looses.

J

mtommer
01-09-2010, 08:42 PM
Well, he did say he would do escrow sooooo.....

fluffy Beaver
01-09-2010, 10:25 PM
I never keep track of aces, I hit them all the time so it isn't anything special.

hmm and the arrogance continues.

OrangeOne
01-10-2010, 01:59 AM
You can hit lots of good shots in a point, but only one bad one.

Assuming that the bad shot ends the point. Many times a bad shot is over the net and in the court, and can be recovered from.

Topaz
01-10-2010, 02:39 AM
I'm sure drakulie could be creative and figure out a way to enter a 3.5 tourney to meet your challenge.

OMG, what is with you?

YOU CAN NOT ENTER A 3.5 TOURNAMENT IF YOUR RATING IS HIGHER THAN 3.5.

Mtommer + Ultra = match made in heaven.

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-10-2010, 05:33 AM
I never keep track of aces, I hit them all the time so it isn't anything special.



Same here. I don't even count because it's pointless, there is just too many untouchable aces i hit. Like you, i just keep track of my second serve aces, because it's just many to keep track of both first and second serve aces. I would say i average 25-30 first serve aces in a 3 set match, and about 15-20 second serve aces.

J011yroger
01-10-2010, 05:38 AM
Assuming that the bad shot ends the point. Many times a bad shot is over the net and in the court, and can be recovered from.

True. Also, nothing turns the tide like a framer that ends the point in your favor by some miracle :).

J

J011yroger
01-10-2010, 05:46 AM
hmm and the arrogance continues.

Don't forget hype!

Hype and Arrogance, like lighting and thunder!

:mrgreen:

J

J011yroger
01-10-2010, 05:48 AM
Well, he did say he would do escrow sooooo.....

He says lots of things.

J

mtommer
01-10-2010, 07:20 AM
OMG, what is with you?

YOU CAN NOT ENTER A 3.5 TOURNAMENT IF YOUR RATING IS HIGHER THAN 3.5.

Mtommer + Ultra = match made in heaven.

Oh, I'm sure there are ways. It just takes thinking outside the box.

mtommer
01-10-2010, 07:22 AM
He says lots of things.

J

True, true. So Ultra, put the money in escrow now, let it be verified and then drakulie you figure out a way into a tournament.

JoelDali
01-10-2010, 07:29 AM
Oh, I'm sure there are ways. It just takes thinking outside the box.

http://static.open.salon.com/files/bush_turkey1232551419.jpg

J011yroger
01-10-2010, 07:35 AM
Seen one, you've seen em all.

Not like this one, it's eating my popcorn!

J

5263
01-10-2010, 08:02 AM
Same here. I don't even count because it's pointless, there is just too many untouchable aces i hit. Like you, i just keep track of my second serve aces, because it's just many to keep track of both first and second serve aces. I would say i average 25-30 first serve aces in a 3 set match, and about 15-20 second serve aces.

Is this serious or sarcastic?

I've been to, watched, and played in a lot of matches thru the years like the US Open, Key Biscayne, D-1 finals with Bryan Bros and Roddick, on down to City and State championships. In none of these have I seen anyone serve as you describe here unless it was a career day. Between 1st and second serves you are claiming close to 3 aces per svc game on an avg day? That combined with the 2-3 svc winners a server of this caliber would get each game, means you could almost not ever get broken unless the aces and winners came from playing games with 20 deuces per game and about 30 DFs per match.

So to serve those kinds of numbers you would have to be playing older 3.5 players who can't move and/or the rest of you game is nearly worthless. If the avg all court or baseline player could serve as you suggest is avg for you, he would practically never go 3 sets, much less lose a match!
So I have to guess you are being sarcastic.
Surely the rest of your game is not that poor.

jmnk
01-10-2010, 08:29 AM
Same here. I don't even count because it's pointless, there is just too many untouchable aces i hit.
Are there any --other-- kind of aces?
I would say i average 25-30 first serve aces in a 3 set match, and about 15-20 second serve aces.
You are joking, right? Or maybe you should play someone that is able to at least put the racket out.

Topaz
01-10-2010, 08:31 AM
In a probably futile effort to educate and inform the dirty, unwashed masses (that would include me at this moment!) about NTRP I have started this thread:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=305922

Because some of the misconceptions and downright false statements made in this thread have driven me to weep. Seriously.

Education is power! Don't be afraid of it! :)

Topaz
01-10-2010, 08:33 AM
Again, his statements prove Ultra to be completely ignorant of USTA rules and regulations...which seriously makes me doubt his claim of tennis superiority, both in skill, NTRP, and ranking.

At least mtommer admits that he doesn't actually play USTA and therefore is not necessarily expect to have a clue (even though many of us have clued him in numerous times and he just refuses to believe).

I suppose that is probably more commonplace on this forum than we realize.

mtommer
01-10-2010, 08:36 AM
So what you're saying is that there is no way to circumvent the system? Wanna bet? There's always a way. You even posted a way yourself. Like I said, get creative and think outside the box.

tfm1973
01-10-2010, 08:57 AM
P.S. Guy I played last night is 3-11 in futures qualies, ranked 64 in National Men's open in 08 (09 rankings not done yet.)

I would call him a 5.5 if you asked my opinion, but he did have a 5.0 computer rating from 2003-2004 when he played in Florida.

J

winning 6 games off the 64th ranked national men's open player is nothing to scoff at. and it sounds like you had a good match if you were 2 points away from winning the second set. so you definitely had your chances.

if you had to rate yourself in NTRP terms at your current level - what would you be?

JoelDali
01-10-2010, 09:19 AM
winning 6 games off the 64th ranked national men's open player is nothing to scoff at. and it sounds like you had a good match if you were 2 points away from winning the second set. so you definitely had your chances.

if you had to rate yourself in NTRP terms at your current level - what would you be?

Oh dear God. Here we go again.

J011yroger
01-10-2010, 12:47 PM
winning 6 games off the 64th ranked national men's open player is nothing to scoff at. and it sounds like you had a good match if you were 2 points away from winning the second set. so you definitely had your chances.

if you had to rate yourself in NTRP terms at your current level - what would you be?

Winning 6 games = loosing.

J

Mr.Brightside
01-10-2010, 01:13 PM
Winning 6 games = losing.

J

10characters

Cindysphinx
01-10-2010, 01:23 PM
Winning 6 games = loosing.

J

Not for NTRP purposes. Winning six games means you were competitive with a highly-ranked player.

Winning 6 games is important psychologically. You'd feel much worse with a double-bagel loss, right?

Winning 6 games is important when you think about consideration of your opponent's time. No one likes to go out and waste another player's time. You made a match of it.

I think you are being too hard on yourself, Jolly. Buck up, mate!

maverick66
01-10-2010, 01:28 PM
I think hes correct Cindy. His goal is to win not improve an NTRP rating. You dont get points for trying. When you wanna be a high ranked player all that matters is winning.

With that said he can take things he did wrong in this match and improve them. Nothing teaches us better than losing a match. I didnt see the match but obviously there are areas where jolly needs work and only way to identify those is in competition.

jmnk
01-10-2010, 01:34 PM
Not for NTRP purposes. Winning six games means you were competitive with a highly-ranked player.

Winning 6 games is important psychologically. You'd feel much worse with a double-bagel loss, right?

Winning 6 games is important when you think about consideration of your opponent's time. No one likes to go out and waste another player's time. You made a match of it.

I think you are being too hard on yourself, Jolly. Buck up, mate!
well, not sure about this. think I'm going to agree with J011yroger, indeed 6 games = loosing. In sports there's really only win or loss. i can see that for NTPR purposes games do count, but frankly more often than not the number of games won in a loosing match may be misleading.

I've played in few tournaments where a clearly better player takes some games off - maybe he wants to just rest in anticipation of next match that day, maybe he 'knows' he is going to win so the desire is just not there, or else.

But that is not a knock on J011yroger by any means - judging from videos he is a decent player either way.

OrangeOne
01-10-2010, 01:47 PM
Nothing teaches us better than losing a match.

I know you're just trotting out a cliche...but I've always believed there's more to be learnt from a fighting win than a loss.

I've played in few tournaments where a clearly better player takes some games off

Absolutely. If you're playing someone you know you can comfortably beat, and they're up 40-15 for example, and it's a tournament scenario where ultimately only the W or L counts, then you may frequently, while not give up that game, maybe swing out and see. If you win those points quickly and it's deuce, fight. If you don't, move on to the next game quickly and ultimately get off the court quickly...

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-10-2010, 02:57 PM
Is this serious or sarcastic?



Very serious. I also play with 28 babolat pure drives, strung with full kevlar(the ultra rig) at 75lbs. I had to switch from alu to full kevlar because the alu strings where only lasting 3 games, or 20 minutes max.

OrangeOne
01-10-2010, 03:04 PM
Very serious. I also play with 28 babolat pure drives, strung with full kevlar(the ultra rig) at 75lbs. I had to switch from alu to full kevlar because the alu strings where only lasting 3 games, or 20 minutes max.

My 35 pure drive GTs (surely you updated? I sold my 23 PDC's to a 6 year old who is starting to take the game seriously) are injected with blood platelets which have been gravity-spun from the blood of only attractive harvard scholars. They now have a static weight of 435g and a swing weight of 500.

They also kinda leak, so they're a bit messy :P

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-10-2010, 03:14 PM
They now have a static weight of 435g and a swing weight of 500.


I didn't want to mention it but i think i'm safe here, the pure drives have a little lead added. Each one weighs in at 14.5oz.

OrangeOne
01-10-2010, 03:15 PM
I didn't want to mention it but i think i'm safe here, the pure drives have a little lead added. The weigh in at 14.5oz.

A little light, but I suppose playable if you've added the whole extra weight at 12.

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-10-2010, 03:22 PM
A little light, but I suppose playable if you've added the whole extra weight at 12.



Interesting. I'm going to let my stringer nate ferguson know about this.

maverick66
01-10-2010, 05:43 PM
I know you're just trotting out a cliche...but I've always believed there's more to be learnt from a fighting win than a loss.


A good coach said to me once that in order to become a good player you need to experience a close loss, a choke loss, a blowout loss, a close win, a win were the other guy chokes, and a blowout win. You cant be good without experiencing all those things. So his loss to a superior player will show him what he needs in order to get up to that level. He wants to get to a high level its just learning where the holes are and how to fix it.

Mansewerz
01-10-2010, 05:55 PM
Very serious. I also play with 28 babolat pure drives, strung with full kevlar(the ultra rig) at 75lbs. I had to switch from alu to full kevlar because the alu strings where only lasting 3 games, or 20 minutes max.

I didn't want to mention it but i think i'm safe here, the pure drives have a little lead added. Each one weighs in at 14.5oz.

Interesting. I'm going to let my stringer nate ferguson know about this.

Ultra, grow up and get a life. No one here values your opinions nor your trolling

OrangeOne
01-10-2010, 05:58 PM
Ultra, grow up and get a life. No one here values your opinions nor your trolling

You know, that interchange - which I was a willing participant in - was just a bit of fun, (and certainly in comparison to the slaying that has gone on in this thread and others).

Shaolin
01-10-2010, 06:13 PM
Thread subscribed.

Good luck JollyRoger.

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-10-2010, 08:21 PM
and get a life.



With over 7k posts within 3 years i would say that's a oxymoron.

JoelDali
01-10-2010, 10:13 PM
You know, that interchange - which I was a willing participant in - was just a bit of fun, (and certainly in comparison to the slaying that has gone on in this thread and others).

There is no fun here, this is serious stuff. We're talking about a large sum of money and man's life on the line for God's sake.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/auciker/internet_serious_business3.jpg

ChuDat
01-10-2010, 10:24 PM
what if he wins 50%? I think he should get a bonus, *Virtual high-five*

tfm1973
01-11-2010, 01:42 AM
what if he wins 50%? I think he should get a bonus, *Virtual high-five*

so does that mean you are onboard for another $100 TW gift card if Jolly wins 50% of his Men's Open Tournaments matches? mighty generous of you ChuDat. this is the thread that keeps on giving. :)

J011yroger
01-11-2010, 03:24 AM
^^^ Hey, I will take whatever anyone is giving, to help foot the bill for my sacrifices to the Luxilon/Ashaway gods.

This full schedule of tournament playing is expensive stuff, they jacked all the fees, plus travel/tolls.

Hopefully Moz will come in and have a few tips for smart budgeting.

J

tfm1973
01-11-2010, 04:09 AM
jolly - no joke. looked up the entry fees for some of these tourneys. $60 here, $80 there. it adds up fast. plus you gotta drive out to some of these tourneys.

not sure you want a cheering section, but let us know your tourney schedule. i have family on long island that haven't seen my kids yet. wouldn't mind catching some good tennis live.

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-11-2010, 05:54 AM
^^^ Hey, I will take whatever anyone is giving, to help foot the bill for my sacrifices to the Luxilon/Ashaway gods.


I wish i was able to incorporate luxilon into my set-up. :cry:

T0P5P1N@DD1CT
01-11-2010, 06:19 AM
With over 7k posts within 3 years i would say that's a oxymoron.

ROTFLMAO...

On a more serious note, good luck J... Promised I'd hit you up to hit when I'm driving through NY, on my way over to CT, but I haven't trekked that way in a while. Will do so soon though...

0d1n
01-11-2010, 06:31 AM
I like this thread. All in good spirit. Good luck master Jolly ;).

zapvor
01-11-2010, 06:42 AM
i wish best of luck to Jolly.

jmverdugo
01-11-2010, 07:41 AM
Good luck JR!

Djokovicfan4life
01-11-2010, 08:05 AM
what if he wins 50%? I think he should get a bonus, *Virtual high-five*

http://www.thebarrytime.co.uk/_thebarrytime/misc/todd5.jpg

raiden031
01-11-2010, 08:30 AM
Anybody that says that is giving themselves an excuse and making themselves feel better by thinking a higher ranked player beat them when in reality, they are just a middle of the road 3.5 or whatever their rating is. :)

My point was that when I got bumped to 4.0, I had doubts that I truly was a 4.0. I had beaten a couple 3.5s and recent 4.0 move-ups (doubles league players) last year in singles (outside of league play though), but got bageled and breadsticked numerous times in league play at 4.0 singles.

All this doesn't matter anymore becuase I have easily bageled some of the new 4.0 bump-ups due to the ratings adjustment...if I wasn't a true 4.0 before, I am now with the realignment!

raiden031
01-11-2010, 08:33 AM
Jolly,

Next time you are in the DC Metro area, hit me up here. I would love to play you, and I have faith you would whip my ***. I haven't even attempted Open level play, so there is nothing I can throw at you that you haven't seen before.

zapvor
01-11-2010, 09:05 AM
raiden-wanna meet up for a hit?

raiden031
01-11-2010, 09:06 AM
raiden-wanna meet up for a hit?

Where you at?

zapvor
01-11-2010, 09:16 AM
dc/moco. what about you

raiden031
01-11-2010, 09:18 AM
dc/moco. what about you

HoCo. We can take this to the mid-atlantic thread though as to not clutter Jolly's thread too much.

papa
01-11-2010, 10:00 AM
OMG, what is with you?

YOU CAN NOT ENTER A 3.5 TOURNAMENT IF YOUR RATING IS HIGHER THAN 3.5.

Mtommer + Ultra = match made in heaven.

Well actually you can - sometimes even legally.

Mansewerz
01-11-2010, 11:25 AM
With over 7k posts within 3 years i would say that's a oxymoron.

Unlike yours, mine have been quality posts compared to the same old garbage you spew day in and day out.

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-11-2010, 11:39 AM
Unlike yours, mine have been quality posts compared to the same old garbage you spew day in and day out.


Please, that will be the day a 12-14yo post's 'quality' :roll: What did i say to make you so upset? Are you just a little young teenage troll who thinks he is somebody? Why am i even wasting my time with you? Are you home schooled or something in need of desperate attention?

Mansewerz
01-11-2010, 11:50 AM
Please, that will be the day a 12-14yo post's 'quality' :roll: What did i say to make you so upset? Are you just a little young teenage troll who thinks he is somebody? Why am i even wasting my time with you? Are you home schooled or something in need of desperate attention?

This is ridiculously ironic

Ultra2HolyGrail
01-11-2010, 11:55 AM
This is ridiculously ironic


Not really, you are like the 12-13yo that tries to hang out with a 16yo who has a license.

Moz
01-11-2010, 01:38 PM
Ultra

I'm in awe if you hit on average 30 - 50 aces in a 3 set match.

In a whole year of tournament singles tennis I hit fewer than 50 aces in total!

I did have a bad elbow but not all year....

I wonder how many points I'd get off you in a 2 set match - obviously none on your service games.

J011yroger
01-11-2010, 02:22 PM
jolly - no joke. looked up the entry fees for some of these tourneys. $60 here, $80 there. it adds up fast. plus you gotta drive out to some of these tourneys.

not sure you want a cheering section, but let us know your tourney schedule. i have family on long island that haven't seen my kids yet. wouldn't mind catching some good tennis live.

Nevermind the F'ing $11 tolls for every bridge you go over.

Whereabouts on LI is your family? Feel free to privately e-mail me if you don't want to say the town. I would love to meet up and have a hit whenever you are in town, even if I don't have a tournament match. I have probably hit with creeping up to 50 boardmembers by now.

As far as the schedule, I am not sure yet. I am going to play a lot in Jan/Feb to try to get an early ranking so I get some seeding love for the rest of the year. Plus if I would have to pay for indoor court time anyway, it takes a little bit of the sting out of paying for the tournaments. When it starts getting nicer outside, I think I will scale back on the tournaments, will see how I am feeling physically/mentally.

J

J011yroger
01-11-2010, 02:23 PM
ROTFLMAO...

On a more serious note, good luck J... Promised I'd hit you up to hit when I'm driving through NY, on my way over to CT, but I haven't trekked that way in a while. Will do so soon though...

Looking forward to it. You can get the scouting report on me from Rommil.

J

J011yroger
01-11-2010, 02:28 PM
Jolly,

Next time you are in the DC Metro area, hit me up here. I would love to play you, and I have faith you would whip my ***. I haven't even attempted Open level play, so there is nothing I can throw at you that you haven't seen before.

Will do. I think the LI 3.0 crew is planning a trip down in the spring, probably myself, Dennis, and Alidisperanza, and maybe a couple of others. I think Dennis wants to fly, and Ali and I want to rent a minivan and make Dennis our designated driver.

J

mtommer
01-11-2010, 03:33 PM
Will do. I think the LI 3.0 crew is planning a trip down in the spring, probably myself, Dennis, and Alidisperanza, and maybe a couple of others. I think Dennis wants to fly, and Ali and I want to rent a minivan and make Dennis our designated driver.

J

Just don't let him drive while he's flying. Some of his posts can be weird enough when he's, presumably, flying. I'd hate to see where you guys ended up, say, if you drifted off to sleep leaving Dennis with no supervision. :D

J011yroger
01-11-2010, 03:36 PM
Just don't let him drive while he's flying. Some of his posts can be weird enough when he's, presumably, flying. I'd hate to see where you guys ended up, say, if you drifted off to sleep leaving Dennis with no supervision. :D

Well, he is constantly supervised, if you count the Russian spy satellites and KGB agents that are constantly keeping tabs on him.

I told him not to steal their electronic pulse weapon, but would he listen to me?

J

dennis10is
01-11-2010, 04:22 PM
Will do. I think the LI 3.0 crew is planning a trip down in the spring, probably myself, Dennis, and Alidisperanza, and maybe a couple of others. I think Dennis wants to fly, and Ali and I want to rent a minivan and make Dennis our designated driver.

J

We can compromise and I'll fly everyone down there. Of course, I'm learning how to use my new prosthetic hands. After I found out that I'm just an NTRP 2.5 or lower, I chopped off both hands out of shame.

dennis10is
01-11-2010, 04:24 PM
Well, he is constantly supervised, if you count the Russian spy satellites and KGB agents that are constantly keeping tabs on him.

I told him not to steal their electronic pulse weapon, but would he listen to me?

J

The FSK (formerly KGB) have 24/7 HUMIT on me in the form of leggy Eastern European blondes. If you want me to lose them, tell me where the meet-up is and I'll HALO in.

Damned, gotta run! NEST duty calls. Another TSA left his post for a DD run. Tarnation!

Topaz
01-11-2010, 04:31 PM
I told him not to steal their electronic pulse weapon, but would he listen to me?


That actually explains a lot.

Topaz
01-11-2010, 04:33 PM
Well actually you can - sometimes even legally.

For singles?

Please explain. I know you know your stuff Papa, and I'm not sure if you read all the posts...but I think you know the context in which I'm posting that statement, and I think you also know if you go to sign up for a 3.5 singles tournament on Tennislink, and your computer rating is 4.0 and higher, the computer simply will not let you register.

tfm1973
01-11-2010, 04:49 PM
For singles?

Please explain. I know you know your stuff Papa, and I'm not sure if you read all the posts...but I think you know the context in which I'm posting that statement, and I think you also know if you go to sign up for a 3.5 singles tournament on Tennislink, and your computer rating is 4.0 and higher, the computer simply will not let you register.

i could be wrong but if one was really determined, i would imagine entering a 3.5 singles tournament as a 4.0 or higher player would be only marginally tougher than say getting a fake driver's license, or sneaking into a rated R movie when you're not really 17, or me sneaking some food out of an all you can eat buffet.

jolly -- grew up in suffolk county - sayville. still gots family in hempstead, brooklyn, upstate new york and the armpit they call new jersey. i'll let you know next time i'm up.

Topaz
01-11-2010, 05:05 PM
^^^Try it then...on tennislink, with *your* USTA number...it simply doesn't let you sign up for divisions that you aren't qualified for (as a 4.0, the option to register for a 3.5 division in an NTRP tournament won't pop up).

I'm sure there are nefarious ways to do it, but that wasn't what we were really addressing, right?

tfm1973
01-11-2010, 05:55 PM
no topaz. I'm pretty sure that is exactly what some were suggesting.

figure there are a number of ways. I could have someone who looks like me sign up for a 3.5 tourney. I show up with his I'd. Badda bing. Sandbaggery.

stop hijacking my thread. You wanna talk NTRP - there's another thread for that.

raiden031
01-11-2010, 06:01 PM
Maybe in an un-sanctioned tournament the director could decide to allow a 4.0 to player in the 3.5 draw if say there wasn't enough people to have a 4.0 draw. Thats about the only time I think it would be legal without downright cheating.

Topaz
01-11-2010, 06:01 PM
no topaz. I'm pretty sure that is exactly what some were suggesting.

figure there are a number of ways. I could have someone who looks like me sign up for a 3.5 tourney. I show up with his I'd. Badda bing. Sandbaggery.

stop hijacking my thread. You wanna talk NTRP - there's another thread for that.

Yes, well, my suggestions were in line with the actual rules and regulations of USTA league and tournament play. People can cheat all they want, it doesn't make them better tennis players.

And I'll hijack all I want thank you very much!

*sticking out tongue*

Cindysphinx
01-11-2010, 06:38 PM
It's easy to cheat.

Just change one letter of your name, get a new USTA number, self-rate, and collect all the tournament bling in your time zone.

Topaz is correct that there is no *legitimate* way to register for a tournament below your level absent some intervention from on high.

Now, when is Jolly playing again? Does he still wear all black regardless of the heat index? :tough guy alert:

mtommer
01-11-2010, 07:08 PM
People can cheat all they want, it doesn't make them better tennis players.


Rightie-O missy, but it does get a player who is rated higher than a 3.5 into a 3.5 tournament. Thanks and God bless. :roll:

raiden031
01-11-2010, 07:13 PM
Rightie-O missy, but it does get a player who is rated higher than a 3.5 into a 3.5 tournament. Thanks and God bless.

Also it brings them one step closer to a beautiful plastic trophy.

J011yroger
01-11-2010, 07:45 PM
Also it brings them one step closer to a beautiful plastic trophy.

I remember after getting cheated in my first final, it was all I could do not to wing the runner up plaque off into the night. It was years ago, and I am still ****ed. After more BS than you could imagine over two weeks, he cheated me in the first game, and I absolutely lost it. You can imagine that it was a short match.

All things considered, it was a good learning experience, but I pity the guy when I have to play him again, I don't care if I am 60 years old.

J

tfm1973
01-12-2010, 02:18 AM
All things considered, it was a good learning experience, but I pity the guy when I have to play him again, I don't care if I am 60 years old.

J

i have images of you in your basement stroking your rifle with a long list of people who have wronged you in tennis. lol.

when's your next tourney? do you hit with other open level players to prepare? how many racquets do you bring to your matches? have you ever sought endorsement from the folks who make jolly rancher candies?

Topaz
01-12-2010, 02:24 AM
Rightie-O missy, but it does get a player who is rated higher than a 3.5 into a 3.5 tournament. Thanks and God bless. :roll:

So, you endorse cheating?

I'm not surprised.

Some of us don't think of those ways, because we don't *have* to in order to win our beautiful plastic trophies...or should I say...paperweights.

roddickslammer
01-12-2010, 05:44 AM
Guys, can I just say something? Don't you realize that all that Jolly has to do is to win enough matches in one tournament to equal 25% wins?

Cindysphinx
01-12-2010, 05:47 AM
Rightie-O missy, but it does get a player who is rated higher than a 3.5 into a 3.5 tournament. Thanks and God bless. :roll:

Hee!

All right. I hereby declare that I could enter any open tournament in my region and could take home the winner's trophy.

I would do this by entering the tournament and then grab it and run away when no one was looking. :)

tfm1973
01-12-2010, 06:09 AM
Guys, can I just say something? Don't you realize that all that Jolly has to do is to win enough matches in one tournament to equal 25% wins?

that is entirely possible. this is a fun bet. some people are thinking this is way too easy for jolly. others think this is gonna be incredibly tough for jolly to win.

i don't care either way. it sure makes my day at work go by a little bit faster though. so win/win.

drakulie
01-12-2010, 06:27 AM
I could have someone who looks like me sign up for a 3.5 tourney. I show up with his I'd. Badda bing. Sandbaggery.




yeah, but **YOU** wouldn't get the credit. Your buddy would get the credit under his ID Memberhsip #.

LeeD
01-12-2010, 08:01 AM
Jolly, good luck, I'm behind you all the way.
My first finals, first 3.5 tourney, the opposition footfaulted every serve, and as I found out later, actually stood inside the court one foot to serve.
He must have called in balls out at least 50 times, took over 5 bathroom breaks, hit more than 5 balls completely off the court, spit and swore constantly, AND TOOK ME OFF MY GAME, beating me 7-6, 6-0.
He won, but his name was not put up in GoldenGatePark's tennis results plaque, because of the way he carried himself. My name was up there instead, as runner up. The plaque normally lists only the winners.
Better to play right, and honorably.
As an aside, after that losing match, plenty of B and some A's, and quite a few A women asked me to hit with them for practice.
Nobody asked Daniel to hit with them, and he was soon booted from the facility.

Topaz
01-12-2010, 08:17 AM
Hee!

All right. I hereby declare that I could enter any open tournament in my region and could take home the winner's trophy.

I would do this by entering the tournament and then grab it and run away when no one was looking. :)

Different beast Cindy...anyone can enter an open tournament.

Not everyone can enter a 3.5 tournament.

And don't you dare make off with my paperweight!!!

JoelDali
01-12-2010, 09:16 AM
http://www.kaitaia.com/funny/pictures/ThreadHijack/thread_direction.gif

papa
01-12-2010, 10:08 AM
For singles?

Please explain. I know you know your stuff Papa, and I'm not sure if you read all the posts...but I think you know the context in which I'm posting that statement, and I think you also know if you go to sign up for a 3.5 singles tournament on Tennislink, and your computer rating is 4.0 and higher, the computer simply will not let you register.

Much easier in doubles but it can/and often is, done in singles fairly easy. The USTA has also seen fit to boot a lot of players up over the past few months which is certainly not helping things either. I think one thing that might help is to monitor how players are actually registered - full name, address, and so forth. I know of players who are registered "up north" at one level but carry a different rating in Florida. Now you can make the very valid argument that a 4.5 up north is about the same as a 4.0 in Florida but that's not the point.

I'd rather not go into details but the bottom line is that if you want to cheat, your probably going to get away with it - sorry to have to say that but its true. Just look at "out" calls and "foot faults", its gotten insane. I watched a match yesterday and the server started a foot behind the baseline but when he struck the ball one entire foot was on or inside the line - the other foot often was on the line. I constantly see "out" calls made before the ball has even landed or on balls that the player can't get too. All this stuff is cheating but as a sport, we do little to correct it.

Topaz
01-12-2010, 10:17 AM
^^^Ok, well, my statements were in the context of *not* cheating. I'm a bit disappointed that I had to clarify that on here.

drakulie
01-12-2010, 10:24 AM
I know of players who are registered "up north" at one level but carry a different rating in Florida.

are they registered with the same name up north and in florida??

with any regard, once registered, when they use their membership #, they can't register for a league or tourney under the rating they already have.

J011yroger
01-12-2010, 01:52 PM
i have images of you in your basement stroking your rifle with a long list of people who have wronged you in tennis. lol.

Fortunately the list is very short. The vast majority of people I have met and played with, both boardmembers and non boardmembers, have been awesome people.

when's your next tourney?

Next tourney has already started, but I haven't played yet.

Do you hit with other open level players to prepare?

Yea, most of my friends that I practice regularly with are on 4.0-5.0 teams, and/or former DI/low level pro/Davis Cup players. But I am always on the lookout for more hitting partners, and usually grab phone/e-mail of anyone I play in a tournament unless it would obviously be out of place because the person is that much better than me.

I have shifted more to playing practice sets and matches, as well as groundstroke games now that I am getting ready for tournaments, instead of just drilling certain strokes.

How many racquets do you bring to your matches?

Six.

Have you ever sought endorsement from the folks who make jolly rancher candies?

No, but I have unsuccessfully tried for Starbucks, Kettle One, and Miller Lite.

J

OrangeOne
01-12-2010, 02:10 PM
^^^Ok, well, my statements were in the context of *not* cheating. I'm a bit disappointed that I had to clarify that on here.

On the line is usually in? :)

Topaz
01-12-2010, 02:31 PM
On the line is usually in? :)

Is that one of those crazy Aussie rules? ;)

OrangeOne
01-12-2010, 02:35 PM
Is that one of those crazy Aussie rules? ;)

Don't be silly.. on the line is the only part of the court that is in here, the rest of the court is out!

Everyone knows that everything is backwards down here, even the toilet flow...

Topaz
01-12-2010, 02:45 PM
^^^LOL, holy crap, remind me never to play 'Aussie Rules'!!!

Good luck with that toilet thing! :shock:

mtommer
01-12-2010, 05:37 PM
^^^Ok, well, my statements were in the context of *not* cheating. I'm a bit disappointed that I had to clarify that on here.

Well maybe the next time you start calling people "morons" maybe you should look beyond your nose and stop being a self-righteous twit (says a self-righteous twit :))

J011yroger
01-12-2010, 06:54 PM
Don't be silly.. on the line is the only part of the court that is in here, the rest of the court is out!

Everyone knows that everything is backwards down here, even the toilet flow...

Hey, my friend and I were thinking of having an experiment, perhaps you can help out.

If we start drinking red wine, until we get the spins, would the room spin on opposite directions from drinking a California wine, as opposed to an Aussie wine?

J

Sumo
01-12-2010, 07:11 PM
Hey, my friend and I were thinking of having an experiment, perhaps you can help out.

If we start drinking red wine, until we get the spins, would the room spin on opposite directions from drinking a California wine, as opposed to an Aussie wine?

J

Or see if the Aussie wine will cancel out the Cali wine's spins so you can keep the party going.

J011yroger
01-12-2010, 07:36 PM
Or see if the Aussie wine will cancel out the Cali wine's spins so you can keep the party going.

I like the way you think!


J

Tina
01-12-2010, 07:42 PM
Are you referring to Yellow Tail Wine?

J011yroger
01-12-2010, 08:01 PM
Are you referring to Yellow Tail Wine?

Not in particular, but I have partaken in the past.

Tonite happens to be a Pinot Noir. Only one glass with my shephard's pie though. Off to bed now.

J

Tina
01-12-2010, 08:09 PM
Not in particular, but I have partaken in the past.

Tonite happens to be a Pinot Noir. Only one glass with my shephard's pie though. Off to bed now.

J

I just had the lemonade cocktail. Sleep Tight, Jolly!

JoelDali
01-12-2010, 09:01 PM
As J011y lays down to sleep in his form fitted JFactor Jammy Jammers(tm) let's all say a blessing in his holy honor for the match of his life happens in less than 24 hrs. Delivery of the $100 TW gift card is imminent....The Gods of indoor hardcourt glory shall bless him and provide a peaceful sleep. Let his bones get the nourishment they need and his muscle(s) rest in blissful comfort. May his mind be refreshed and the Kevlar based compounds of his saintly soul re-energize under the guidance of the holy Gods of Luxilon. Praise J011y ye 3.0 groundlings of the parks and public courts. Praise him dammit. Amen. Goodnight and good luck J011y.

Mansewerz
01-13-2010, 09:51 AM
Good luck Jo11y!