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View Full Version : Another "Questionable" Sportsmanship Debate...


Gemini
01-06-2010, 12:38 PM
The link above talks about a Texas high school basketball game where one team ran up the score against its opponent. In case no one remembers, there was a similar incident several months ago (also in Texas I think) involving two h.s. girl's teams. I was open regarding my feelings when it came to that game. I just wanted to get others' views on the link below before I commented.

http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1036676

raiden031
01-06-2010, 12:58 PM
I don't think its bad if the kids give 100% the entire game. I think if the coach left the starters in, that would've been kinda nasty, but I don't see a problem based on what I read.

angharad
01-06-2010, 01:49 PM
I'm of two minds about it, in all honesty. The final score does seem almost insultingly lopsided, but I get apprehensive when people want to punish those who achieve or over-achieve.

cucio
01-06-2010, 02:38 PM
If the differences are that great both teams are wasting their time facing each other. The superior team should be promoted to a harder league.

HellBunni
01-06-2010, 03:23 PM
the female game you mentioned was different, because one of the schools had disabled (mentally) players (if I remember correctly).

the whole complain about running up scores is lame and stupid.

one can actually argue that a total beat down is showing respect. by going full force and totally crushing your opponent is showing them respect (the fact that the losing team is a "threat"). And by using a "lower string" is actually disrespectful (like psh.. your so weak our sub's sub's sub can beat you).

ppl need to stop being so freaking sensitive.

I find it the funniest when NFL teams complain about teams running up scores. For god sakes man up, you are paid millions to play and football is suppose to be "manly". If you get your *** handed to you, train harder. Don't complain like a baby.

hollywood9826
01-06-2010, 06:25 PM
The problem with this is the team continued to press and run very fast offensive plays. You can take the press off and play D at half court to slow the game down and maybe only win by 50. If the only thing they can do is press then they are one sided team and need to work on half court D.

Thats my only problem with this. You cant ask for the kids to not play with intensity. But there is a different way to play games with a lead and it aint to win by 140pts.

diggler
01-07-2010, 04:52 AM
the female game you mentioned was different, because one of the schools had disabled (mentally) players (if I remember correctly).

the whole complain about running up scores is lame and stupid.

one can actually argue that a total beat down is showing respect. by going full force and totally crushing your opponent is showing them respect (the fact that the losing team is a "threat"). And by using a "lower string" is actually disrespectful (like psh.. your so weak our sub's sub's sub can beat you).

ppl need to stop being so freaking sensitive.

I find it the funniest when NFL teams complain about teams running up scores. For god sakes man up, you are paid millions to play and football is suppose to be "manly". If you get your *** handed to you, train harder. Don't complain like a baby.

I agree. It is disrespectful not to try. The losing team could forfeit. The bottom line is one of the teams is in the wrong division.

Ken Honecker
01-07-2010, 05:54 AM
Hey if you don't like the score quit playing sports. Almost anyone that has been involved in sports for very long has been on the losing end of a complete mismatch. In 1940 the Bears beat the Redskins in the NFL Championship 73-0 and those teams were the best 2 in the league but not on that day. I've lost rec football games 0-40 and had softball games end early because one of us was ahead by a certain amount, heck we lost 2-23 one game then came back and won the championship the next, but the thing is that outside of rec leagues there is no calling the game because of score.

It's funny to see people talking about this on a board that seems to put forth the idea that you get better by playing against better players so embrace it. Is it wrong to beat someone 6-0, 6-0, 6-0?

Gemini
01-07-2010, 06:14 AM
Hey if you don't like the score quit playing sports. Almost anyone that has been involved in sports for very long has been on the losing end of a complete mismatch. In 1940 the Bears beat the Redskins in the NFL Championship 73-0 and those teams were the best 2 in the league but not on that day. I've lost rec football games 0-40 and had softball games end early because one of us was ahead by a certain amount, heck we lost 2-23 one game then came back and won the championship the next, but the thing is that outside of rec leagues there is no calling the game because of score.

It's funny to see people talking about this on a board that seems to put forth the idea that you get better by playing against better players so embrace it. Is it wrong to beat someone 6-0, 6-0, 6-0?

I agree with what everyone's said. In this situation, the other team was simply outclassed. Late last year, in the case of the girls game, the losing team was comprised of girls that were "disabled" to a certain degree that prevented them from competing on the same level as the winning team.

I do think that at some point you need to practice a little discretion, but in this case I can't fault the winning players for pushing their advantage. Also, it can be wrong to beat someone 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 when the other person is at an obvious disadvantage. Say you against a wheelchair player for example??

hollywood9826
01-07-2010, 08:30 AM
Hey if you don't like the score quit playing sports. Almost anyone that has been involved in sports for very long has been on the losing end of a complete mismatch. In 1940 the Bears beat the Redskins in the NFL Championship 73-0 and those teams were the best 2 in the league but not on that day. I've lost rec football games 0-40 and had softball games end early because one of us was ahead by a certain amount, heck we lost 2-23 one game then came back and won the championship the next, but the thing is that outside of rec leagues there is no calling the game because of score.

It's funny to see people talking about this on a board that seems to put forth the idea that you get better by playing against better players so embrace it. Is it wrong to beat someone 6-0, 6-0, 6-0?


But in softball theres no way to stop somebody from hitting. But if youre up 25 runs you dont run the bases as aggresivly. especially if the other teams is throwing it all over the palce.

If you beat somebodt\y in tennis 0,0, and 0 by hitting every single serve and gs to the guys backhand and he keeps dumping balls into the net or hitting long then will it hurt you to maybe hit to the gyus FH a bit or serve differently? But if you try differnt things and execute better and get the 0's then no its no different.

This team was up at halftime 100-12 and came out in the 2nd half and contined to press and gun the ball. Its wrong.

HellBunni
01-07-2010, 08:57 AM
But in softball theres no way to stop somebody from hitting. But if youre up 25 runs you dont run the bases as aggresivly. especially if the other teams is throwing it all over the palce.

If you beat somebodt\y in tennis 0,0, and 0 by hitting every single serve and gs to the guys backhand and he keeps dumping balls into the net or hitting long then will it hurt you to maybe hit to the gyus FH a bit or serve differently? But if you try differnt things and execute better and get the 0's then no its no different.

This team was up at halftime 100-12 and came out in the 2nd half and contined to press and gun the ball. Its wrong.

not really wrong.
the losing team should've just forfeited at that point. if they still continue to play, then they are still in the game.

OrangeOne
01-07-2010, 09:08 AM
"No coach wants to put his kids in a position to be embarrassed," Armant told The Chronicle. "We have great kids on our team, hard workers, and I am proud that they played the whole game tonight, but you can see how coaches are hesitant to put their kids on the floor with a team that is going to score on them that way."

Ridiculous. People train hard to play hard. The winning team needs to get the most out of the experience too, they will presumably have tougher matches down track.

If losing coach doesn't want kids to understand sport, life, etc... then they should play non-competitive video games in the safety of their lounge-room, and be careful to always use the safety-scissors.

hollywood9826
01-07-2010, 10:44 AM
But what good does it do for the better team to keep doing the same thing the whole game. Theres other things they could work on. Again the team was full court pressing the entire game up by over 100 points.

Pressing against a bad team will not prepare them when they face a good team that has ball handlers that can break that press. What will happen is a team will break the press and end up getting easy buckets.

Beating a team by 150 points does nothing for either team. What the team gonna do with 2 minutes left and down by two points? this is all stuff they could have worked on during this game. But the coach decided otherwise.

HellBunni
01-07-2010, 11:28 AM
But what good does it do for the better team to keep doing the same thing the whole game. Theres other things they could work on. Again the team was full court pressing the entire game up by over 100 points.

Pressing against a bad team will not prepare them when they face a good team that has ball handlers that can break that press. What will happen is a team will break the press and end up getting easy buckets.

Beating a team by 150 points does nothing for either team. What the team gonna do with 2 minutes left and down by two points? this is all stuff they could have worked on during this game. But the coach decided otherwise.

maybe motivate them to practice hard and improve?

they winning team used all of their players, so they didn't just use their starters. the subs need to play hard too, because they usually don't get a chance to play.

from the article it sounds like the losing team needs some displ where there was a player that intentionally fouled and started a fight.

hollywood9826
01-07-2010, 12:10 PM
Its a talent issue not a work issue.

So the guy fouled a player on the stud team and the guy from the winning team (up by over 100 points) starts a fight.

All this team is trying to do is break the scoring record. There is no doubt in my mind these kids are too cocky. The coach is an idiot for thinking his team can only be succeessful playing one way. His goal should be preparing his players to play at the next level. And college teams play all facets and styles of basketball.

Theyu also slow the pace down when they are winning by more 40 pts.


What this team is doing is like a baseball having a 15 run run lead and still stealing bases in the 8th inning.

RoddickAce
01-07-2010, 01:27 PM
not really wrong.
the losing team should've just forfeited at that point. if they still continue to play, then they are still in the game.

Ya, exactly. If the coach wanted to save his players from further embarrassment, then he could've forfeited (though that's bad sportsmanship), or even better, tell his players to practice more ahead of time.

You can't just expect your opponents to go easy on you, or not try because you're not good enough. Did they want the winning team to just run around doing victory dances or giving freebies instead of actually trying?

I think the fact that the winning team kept on trying when in the lead is actually an act of good sportsmanship and shows respect for the other team and those who paid to watch their game. It shows that they are serious about the match and came into the match giving their 100% for the audience and their team.

hollywood9826
01-07-2010, 02:02 PM
Has anyone here actually ever played a competitive team sport?

Do you know anything about basketball and what a "press" is?

The only way you can score 170 points in a basketball game is if your intentionally trying to run up the score against an inferior team. That is basically the definition of bad sportsmanship. You can slow the pace down without lacking effort.

The Spurs won championships playing at a slow pace. The Suns couldnt beat them playing at the fastest pace in recent history. It does not hurt if this coach has his team playing a more college style game especially when they are up 100-12 at halftime.

This team scored 1 point every 14 seconds. meaning they swarmed on D the entire game. Nobody does that unless they are arrogant AHoles.

OrangeOne
01-07-2010, 02:09 PM
if your intentionally trying to run up the score against an inferior team. That is basically the definition of bad sportsmanship.

I don't play basketball, I play tennis, I cycle, I do a bunch of things.

Let's say we're playing tennis. It's a mis-match. I'm beating you 6-0 4-0. Is it somehow bad sportsmanship if I win the next two games?

Your 'definition' of bad sportsmanship is so far off-base it's not funny.

hollywood9826
01-07-2010, 02:41 PM
Tennis different than a team sport. There are certain things a team can do in situations where they can work and improve and not just run up the score against some punching bags. If you havent played a team sport its hard to understand, but there is a certain way to play with a lead and to keep pressing and gunning to break a scoring record aint the right way.

angharad
01-07-2010, 03:11 PM
Let's say we're playing tennis. It's a mis-match. I'm beating you 6-0 4-0. Is it somehow bad sportsmanship if I win the next two games?

The difference that I see, and I could be way off base, is that each point in tennis is won by someone. If you don't make a shot in basketball, the other team doesn't get a point. If you don't make a shot in tennis, the other player does get a point.

I guess my point is that in tennis, there's no way to really back off of winning without putting yourself in jeopardy. If you're not winning points and games, your opponent is. It seems a little different in basketball where you could potentially cut back on offense but not on defense.

That being said, I still stand by what I said previously in this thread: I get apprehensive when someone is penalised for achieving or over-achieving.

OrangeOne
01-07-2010, 03:52 PM
Tennis different than a team sport. There are certain things a team can do in situations where they can work and improve and not just run up the score against some punching bags. If you havent played a team sport its hard to understand, but there is a certain way to play with a lead and to keep pressing and gunning to break a scoring record aint the right way.

I have played a team sport, and I have coached team sports.

I have been nothing less than disappointed when I've seen a team playing the one I'm coaching 'go easy' at the end of a game to minimise the loss. I've ripped it into the people I've coached when I've seen them drop intensity during an easy win.

The coach, the team, the school, the players....

Anyone thinking about this? The coach is getting publicity for the team, the school and the players. All publicity is good, winning publicity is better. Imagine your next prospects having come from 'that team'... at least you're known, which is almost always better than not being known!

OrangeOne
01-07-2010, 03:59 PM
The difference that I see, and I could be way off base, is that each point in tennis is won by someone. If you don't make a shot in basketball, the other team doesn't get a point. If you don't make a shot in tennis, the other player does get a point.

I guess my point is that in tennis, there's no way to really back off of winning without putting yourself in jeopardy. If you're not winning points and games, your opponent is. It seems a little different in basketball where you could potentially cut back on offense but not on defense.

I understand what you're saying, but it leaves me with two questions:

a. Better defence usually leads to increased scoring anyways....
b. Important point / question to most in this thread:

They won by 140 points, using all players from the team & bench. If they had have changed game style and 'only' won by 80 or 100 points, we may still be having this conversation. So what's an acceptable massive win? Seems this conversation will only get more bizarre at this point.

That being said, I still stand by what I said previously in this thread: I get apprehensive when someone is penalised for achieving or over-achieving.

Agreed.

hollywood9826
01-07-2010, 06:25 PM
There is a proper way to teach young kids the game. I dont think this coach is doing that.

But this was also a wierd game. A player from the losing team got frustrated that this team was still pressing and jacking up shots every 5 seconds with an 80 point lead. A guy took a shot and the player fouled him pretty hard. Probably not Kevin McHale clothesline hard, but hard enough for a flagrant none the less. The guy on the team that was pounding them got mad a staretd a fight. The refs told both teams to play 5 guys the rest of game and the rest of team sat on the bench.

Its one of those unwritten laws of the game. Just like in baseball when you are up 10 runs in the late innings you don't steal basses and try to turn doubles into triples In basketball you don't full court press and shoot the ball every 10 seconds when you are up by 120.

fruitytennis1
01-07-2010, 06:48 PM
Wrong division much?

raiden031
01-07-2010, 08:01 PM
Wrong division much?

This is HS ball. I don't know about this case, but alot of times leagues/divisions are not formed by anything other than locality.

In HS, I played football and we had a couple really bad teams and one solid team in our division that went undefeated nearly every year. When I was a senior, the undefeated team beat the winless team 70-0. It happens in HS and even college sports, and its not like NTRP where you group teams by skill level.