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Topaz
01-10-2010, 09:26 AM
In various discussions on these forums, there has been unending debate about how NTRP works, usually between those who are involved in USTA league play and those who do not.

In looking up a specific rule, I found some new helpful guidelines that the USTA has put on their website. Hopefully, this will help alleviate some confusion as well as encourage other posters to believe that there are actually specific rules and regulations regarding NTRP, both in leagues and tournaments.

This link will take you to various information regarding NTRP in leagues, both how it works and how to get started.

http://www.usta.com/USTA/Global/Active/Custom%20Pages/Leagues/1237_NTRP.aspx

In the NTRP FAQs (which are on that page, but a separate PDF document), there are also some interesting points of note:

* The rating categories are generalizations about skill level.

*You may find that you actually play above or below the category that best describes your skill level, depending on your competitive ability.

*Your self rating is not meant to be static; rather it may be adjusted as your match play demonstrates the need for reclassification.

*There is no substitute for match results as a measure of playing ability. (the bold and italics are *there's* and not added by me)

Please note that this is at the end of a 16 page document, and even here, it is mentioned twice that NTRP is determined by match results and competitive ability.

In summary...MATCH RESULTS ARE ALL WHAT COUNTS. (caps are mine!) You can not look at a video of a few strokes and determine NTRP. You could take a guess, and hopefully an educated guess, but NTRP is only determined by match results.

It does not matter how hard you hit the ball or how ugly your strokes are...or how pretty they are either...all that matters is how wins the match and what the score was.

It would be great to have this thread as a valuable and *trusted* source of information regarding NTRP, so if you add to it, may I ask that you also cite your source.

Thoughts?

Topaz
01-10-2010, 09:27 AM
This link includes regulations for NTRP league play:

http://www.usta.com/USTA/Global/Active/Custom%20Pages/Leagues/1213_2009_Regulations.aspx

5263
01-10-2010, 09:33 AM
In summary...MATCH RESULTS ARE ALL WHAT COUNTS. (caps are mine!) You can not look at a video of a few strokes and determine NTRP. You could take a guess, and hopefully an educated guess, but NTRP is only determined by match results.

It does not matter how hard you hit the ball or how ugly your strokes are...or how pretty they are either...all that matters is how wins the match and what the score was.

Thoughts?

I think you have covered it quite well here,
but many are forever locked on aesthetic beauty of strokes
and can't let it go as it relates to rating.

It's almost like we need 2 divisions like in Karate where you have
sparring matches and Kata as separate events, lol.

Topaz
01-10-2010, 09:36 AM
I think you have covered it quite well here,
but many are forever locked on aesthetic beauty of strokes
and can't let it go as it relates to rating.

It's almost like we need 2 divisions like in Karate where you have
sparring matches and Kata as separate events, lol.

I'm hoping to add some info regarding NTRP tournaments, as well as ratings and rankings, but yeah, if you go to that site, it is all there. If even a few find it helpful, then that is great!

And I have to admit that I personally also fall victim to this...I'm very often compliment on how my strokes *look*, and I am queen of the clinic group.

But the minute you get me in a competitive match situation, it is almost like a thread that unravels...I haven't figured how to use those tools that I have to consistently win matches yet. And until I do, my NTRP will not budge.

Doesn't matter how pretty my FH is (and it is purty!). ;)

bad_call
01-11-2010, 05:37 AM
Topaz - love your avatar!! ...carry on.

Topaz
01-11-2010, 05:46 AM
Thank you! :) Since I've had it, she's won everything she's entered! It isn't coming down anytime soon!

GeorgeLucas
01-11-2010, 05:48 AM
"**** the system"

-Roger Federer

larry10s
01-11-2010, 07:52 AM
Some people may be confused with the USTA league ratings (1.0 to 7.0) so here is the unofficial guide.

1.0 - You stink. Your grabbing the wrong end of the racquet and you

think the green fuzz on the ball has something to do with velcro.

1.5 - You still stink, but you can tie your own tennis shoes and hit a

ball you have got in your hand towards one of the cardinal points

without hitting yourself in the leg.

2.0 - You have taken a few lessons, and the odour is fading. Your strokes

begin to look less like a grandmother waving a flyswatter at a moth

and more like you are actually trying to accomplish something.

2.5 - This is when you start going to the club round robins, and

discover that despite your previous misconceptions, you still stink.

You are doing alright if you are fed the ball, but everyone else is

really just being nice to you until they can win the point without

embarrasing you.

3.0 - Same as 2.5, but with more topspin.

3.5 - The light is dawning. Your feet begin to move more efficiently.

They do not remain glued to the baseline, but begin to move

around the court, even up to the net on those occasions that you

feel like walking back to the fence to pick up the ball that passed

you.

4.0 - Your discovery of how to hit a serve and overhead allows you

to be one of the people politely destroying 2.5 players on

round robin night.

4.5 - The ball goes where you will it to go, with authoritative pace

and spin. You are king. You are undefeated on Round Robin night,

and wish test your mettle with a greater challenge. You ask

to play a match with your club's top players and after getting

your *** whupped that, in fact, you stink. "But", the Div 1 team

says magnanimously, "You are getting better."

5.0 - Around now, pretty much everyone else at your club stinks.

League play is the only way to get a decent match, and you're

starting to think pretty well of yourself.

5.5 - You crush some 5.0 punk in a league match, and tell him

he stinks.

6.0 - Tennis scholarship. You go to Stanford, play for the university

team, and have some sixteen year old prodigy bagels you in

a practice set and tells you you stink.

6.5 - You are offered a berth in a local ATP qualifier, and lose out

in the pre-draw round robin stage. One of the people in the

audience played tennis with you back in round robin, and he

tells you that you looked pretty good out there, but your

backhand still stinks.

7.0 - The pro level. You got to this level by yelling at referees, match fixing or taking drugs.

(I found this online, I don't know who to give credit to but very funny.)

DrewRafter8
01-11-2010, 08:11 AM
http://www.nctennis.com/pdffiles/ExperiencedPlayerGuidelines.pdf

Food for thought as well.

HitItHarder
01-11-2010, 08:33 AM
We had our USTA captain's meeting on Saturday and a USTA rep came and did a NTRP presentation. Apparently he is one of the three people that wrote the NTRP self-rate questionaire and he serves on the national committe that hears appeals, etc. His first name was Phil. I can't remember his last name at the moment. He said the self rate guidelines are just a starting place. You will never really know your correct level until you start playing matches as only two things that go into determining an NTRP rating.

1) Your current NTRP rating (actual dynamic rating) and the opponents rating
2) Your performance in the match - games won and lost.

Your rating changes based on those two things alone. If you don't have a rating and self-rate (whether that self-rating is a 2.5 or a 5.5) - you start off the same, which is a 0.0. After you play two matches against computer rated opponents - you get a dynamic rating based on the criteria above. How did you perform (games won/lost) in those matches.

At the end of the year -- that dynamic rating after being adjusted for benchmarks, etc. results in a year end general rating catergory - 3.5, 4.0, etc.

NTRP ratings aren't about strokes, serves, hitting hard, etc. It is about how you perform in a match against other computer rate players.

Topaz
01-11-2010, 08:52 AM
We had our USTA captain's meeting on Saturday and a USTA rep came and did a NTRP presentation. Apparently he is one of the three people that wrote the NTRP self-rate questionaire and he serves on the national committe that hears appeals, etc. His first name was Phil. I can't remember his last name at the moment. He said the self rate guidelines are just a starting place. You will never really know your correct level until you start playing matches as only two things that go into determining an NTRP rating.

1) Your current NTRP rating (actual dynamic rating) and the opponents rating
2) Your performance in the match - games won and lost.

Your rating changes based on those two things alone. If you don't have a rating and self-rate (whether that self-rating is a 2.5 or a 5.5) - you start off the same, which is a 0.0. After you play two matches against computer rated opponents - you get a dynamic rating based on the criteria above. How did you perform (games won/lost) in those matches.

At the end of the year -- that dynamic rating after being adjusted for benchmarks, etc. results in a year end general rating catergory - 3.5, 4.0, etc.

NTRP ratings aren't about strokes, serves, hitting hard, etc. It is about how you perform in a match against other computer rate players.

Very well put, thanks for adding that to this thread!

Topaz
01-11-2010, 06:44 PM
Essential Tennis's most recent and 100th podcast talks about differences in NTRP levels:

http://www.essentialtennis.com/podcast/