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View Full Version : A video of my friend who rates himself as 4.5


yshengyi
01-11-2010, 02:13 PM
comments are welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/user/yshengyi#p/a/u/1/NtytGp6hzJ4

maxpotapov
01-11-2010, 02:30 PM
comments are welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/user/yshengyi#p/a/u/1/NtytGp6hzJ4

Technique is very clean (very much like 4.5) but overall it's hard to assess as he can probably hit harder and faster with stronger opponent.

tennisdad65
01-11-2010, 02:30 PM
The guy in black is solid even though the competition is poor. Nice backhand (better than 4.5), nice serve, and nice overall groundstrokes. I think his net play needs improvement. He needs to put away the volleys rather than 'rally' from the net.

It is tough to say until he is under pressure from a good player, but I think he is a 4.5 atleast. I normally see 5.0's with that Backhand.

Noveson
01-11-2010, 02:57 PM
Tough to tell. He gets to sit and set up for ever ball with all the time in the world. Looks solid though, footwork isn't really there but that could easily be from not being pressured at all. Needs a better partner

psp2
01-11-2010, 02:59 PM
How does that guy hold serve at 4.5 with that weak serve? 4.5 guys I play would eat that crap up for breakfast.

smoothtennis
01-11-2010, 03:08 PM
You can tell the guy is NOT playing to top speed. He has lowered his racket head speed on most shots on purpose I suppose to play the weaker player appears to be a full 1.5 levels at least away from him.

bad_call
01-11-2010, 04:45 PM
Tough to tell. He gets to sit and set up for ever ball with all the time in the world. Looks solid though, footwork isn't really there but that could easily be from not being pressured at all. Needs a better partner

agreed. need a vid hitting with Noveson. you up for it?

Fedace
01-11-2010, 04:48 PM
comments are welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/user/yshengyi#p/a/u/1/NtytGp6hzJ4

LOL,,,why is the other guy on the other side so SLOW ?? How can i judge this guy when the guy suck so bad ????????

Bud
01-11-2010, 04:58 PM
comments are welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/user/yshengyi#p/a/u/1/NtytGp6hzJ4

Let me guess... he's really an ATP touring pro! :neutral:

GuyClinch
01-11-2010, 05:13 PM
Your friend might be correct - looks like a legit 4.5 to me..

ttbrowne
01-11-2010, 05:34 PM
I would venture to say he can play at 4.5. He's a lot better than the so-called 5.0 guy from Hawaii or wherever. Ha!

Claudius
01-11-2010, 05:34 PM
He would probably eat JollyRoger for breakfast.

raiden031
01-11-2010, 05:34 PM
Looks like he has the skills. The guy in white has the goofiest serve, and his volleys are just laughable.

SuperDuy
01-11-2010, 05:37 PM
Let me guess... he's really an ATP touring pro! :neutral:

this made me lol:twisted:

Claudius
01-11-2010, 05:40 PM
His game is almost an exact replica of mine.

lancernrg
01-11-2010, 06:02 PM
comments are welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/user/yshengyi#p/a/u/1/NtytGp6hzJ4

Not even close to 4.5 rating. A lot of you are totally exaggerating his level (himself included).
Poor footwork and no extension during those volleys.

A more accurate rating would be close to a strong 2.5 :oops:

Zachol82
01-11-2010, 06:10 PM
Looks 4.0+ to me. I'm sure he's not even playing full strength. I love how his strokes are smooth, he takes his time and he has great composure as well. The guy across the net seems to use his arm too much and looks to be muscling the ball.

I can't really rate anyone more than a 4.0 unless they have official match records or at least a full length video of a matchplay...and even then it's hard to tell from just videos.

However, he is NOT a 2.5. Please share whatever it is that you're smoking, good sir?

TennisCoachFLA
01-11-2010, 06:14 PM
Not even close to 4.5 rating. A lot of you are totally exaggerating his level (himself included).
Poor footwork and no extension during those volleys.

A more accurate rating would be close to a strong 2.5 :oops:

Ha, he certainly is not a 2.5. Hard to tell where he stands since he is hitting against a weak player.

But I would say he is a no brainer 4.0 and most likely a 4.5 if we saw him play against a better player.

texasdoc
01-11-2010, 07:12 PM
he is good. classic looking strokes.

dozu
01-11-2010, 07:24 PM
looks like a legit 4.5 .... although even a 4.0 can look good when the other side is a total hack... but his strokes are all 4.5 caliber.

oh... wait, if that 'guy from hawaii' is 5.0, then this guy has to be 6.0 at least.

Fedace
01-11-2010, 07:28 PM
looks like a legit 4.5 .... although even a 4.0 can look good when the other side is a total hack... but his strokes are all 4.5 caliber.

oh... wait, if that 'guy from hawaii' is 5.0, then this guy has to be 6.0 at least.

Does he play on the University of Hawaii varsity team ?:confused:

teppeiahn1
01-11-2010, 07:44 PM
solid player, but alot of guys can brake down when opponents hitting deep hard shots...

Footwork needs some work but strokes looks solid. His balance is good, and very smooth mover.

I would believe him if his a 4.5!

SlapShot
01-11-2010, 07:52 PM
Looks like solid 4.0+ strokes for sure.

Is that a facility in MN? It looks a lot like the Lifetime Fitness in Lakeville, MN.

35ft6
01-11-2010, 09:03 PM
Nice strokes. He looks like he could be a weak 4.5, it's tough to tell because he's not being pushed, but nice strokes.

Claudius
01-11-2010, 09:08 PM
One of the few NTRP video threads that wont turn into a flame war. :)

yshengyi
01-11-2010, 09:47 PM
It's actually in Iowa City, IA.

Looks like solid 4.0+ strokes for sure.

Is that a facility in MN? It looks a lot like the Lifetime Fitness in Lakeville, MN.

Mansewerz
01-11-2010, 10:38 PM
Looks like solid 4.0+ strokes for sure.

Is that a facility in MN? It looks a lot like the Lifetime Fitness in Lakeville, MN.

Lifetime in MN has tennis courts????

KiNG
01-11-2010, 11:59 PM
Your friend is legit. Indeed, a 4.5 with beautiful strokes and timing(its not always the case with the other 4.5s). His oppenent might be alittle weak. But the guy in black is really solid and like the others said he hits it clean.

Very nice looking strokes and got a complete game. 4.5 is fair.

Oh and your friend plays with GREAT MARGIN. I like that. This is the way we all should play.

xFullCourtTenniSx
01-12-2010, 12:56 AM
Let me guess... he's really an ATP touring pro! :neutral:

lol Yes, we're all conspiring to pick on you Bud. But you're safe this time. No way in hell they're ATP pros. ATP pros warming up serves have more penetration than their first serves.

I would venture to say he can play at 4.5. He's a lot better than the so-called 5.0 guy from Hawaii or wherever. Ha!

The guy from Hawaii would destroy the guy in black the way he's playing in that video, no doubt about it. Groundstrokes would be about even (the 5.0 going for more consistent, high topspins and this "4.5" kid being the aggressor), but the serves and volleys are on completely different levels.

Not even close to 4.5 rating. A lot of you are totally exaggerating his level (himself included).
Poor footwork and no extension during those volleys.

A more accurate rating would be close to a strong 2.5 :oops:

Okay... Now this is either a brutal joke or a terrible sense of what's going on. Even the "bad" player is better than a 2.5. lol

The guy in black is playing roughly on a 4.0 level in the video the OP posted. The other guy is a 3.5-4.0 even if he doesn't look like it. He can get balls back pretty well, though they have very little on it. But these are all highlights, so the errors are all cut out as well, so they can be maybe 0.5 NTRP lower than what we think.

I really think this kid is a strong 4.0 max. I feel he was trying harder than you all think. We need a video of him playing equal competition and trying to be totally sure. I think real 4.5s could do better using less effort than he did (or at least make it look that way). The things I'm looking for are to force errors off short balls or solid approach shots that force weak replies, a solid return of serve (taking it on the rise regardless of speed, spin, or penetration), a pretty solid all court game (which to a certain degree he has), solid serve (spin, good placement, some pace, good penetration), ability to play solid defense, consistency, and depth.

He's consistent, plays deep sometimes, can hit approach shots, and has a solid all court game in the works (not quite there yet). The rest either he wasn't trying enough to do or he simply can't do it. So we need to see some real matchplay to confirm it. Also, 3-4 games nonstop would be nice. The three biggest things I want to see from him are his serve, return, and mid-court game.

I'm going to say solid or strong 4.0 for now. If any new clips come up I could bump it up to a solid 4.5.

0d1n
01-12-2010, 02:08 AM
I'm not from the States, but he's sort of what I imagined a 4.x would look like.
The other guy doesn't pressure him at all though, so all of that "flowing" technique could break down with some better placement / depth from the other side (I know my strokes tend to do that sometimes). He's playing "conservative" and "with margin" because he has the time to prepare as much as he wants due to what's coming from the other side of the net.
He looks a bit like me in the stroke production but I probably can crack the serve a bit harder due to being taller than he is.

With regards to the comments made on the "5.0 from Hawaii" (assuming he's the guy with the snow shoe racket from the other "rate these guys" thread with pro Canadian players filmed)... I would think guys who are making those comments are a bit harsh.
I'll agree that this guy is "better looking", and the Hawaii guy wasn't all that orthodox or elegant with his technique, but there was a certain "alertness" in his movement, a certain attitude/opportunism/reading of the game, and certainly some good put away volleys that would make me think that guy is tougher to play against than most people think.
My 2 pence worth ... ;)

Solat
01-12-2010, 06:31 AM
pretty sure we can all agree this guy is good, hits clean and is taking this way easy. I think we can also agree that his volleys aren't crash hot so he isnt an extremely high level player.

0d1n
01-12-2010, 06:46 AM
^ One can be an extremely high level player without playing any volleys, ever (at least in theory :) ).

jrod
01-12-2010, 06:49 AM
I agree. The guy in black clothing seems like a legit 4.5. Solid footwork, clean strokes, good depth, placement, spin, and pace. I know videos can be deceiving, but this one seems pretty clear cut to me.

SlapShot
01-12-2010, 07:07 AM
Lifetime in MN has tennis courts????

Some of them do - the Lakeville facility actually looks a lot like the facility in the video. I'm not a member, so I only play there for tourneys and league stuff, never casually.

equinox
01-12-2010, 07:32 AM
Jrod is correct.

This asian player would provide me with very challenging competition.

He's easily 4.0+ and i'd say he's even holding back a little.

I've no problem handing out 4.5 star.

Sweet 1hbh, wish it was mine. :\

lew.m.f.tennisfan
01-12-2010, 08:22 AM
nice backhand

Kick_It
01-12-2010, 08:22 AM
I'd agree with ballpark 4.x - based purely upon this tiny fragment of his play, which I think we all could agree isn't really the way to rate someone.

I can't tell if he's going all out, or holding back (i presume some). Decent FH and BH stroke technique. Net game doesn't look too strong. IMO can't be much higher than low end of 4.5 range based upon net play.

Many players, particularly strong players adapt their games and dynamically throttle up or down to do what they can to win against opponents. That doesn't always translate into playing aggressive all the time which many 2.5x to 4.0 players presume that strong (IMO 4.5+) players always do. This is another aspect that makes ratings based solely off videos of questionable merit.

I can't tell if he's legitimately playing against the other guy as in a competitive match (which IMO speaks to mid to high 4.0 range), or just being nice to hit with them (which IMO would speak to low 4.5 range).

LeeD
01-12-2010, 08:36 AM
He's being nice.
You can tell he hits directly at other guys forehand, maybe increasing the pace after a couple of shots.
He's just feeding balls to the background guy.
As for 4.0 or 4.5, tough one there. Depends on area. He can certainly play 4.5, but can he go 4 rounds consistently?
Some 4.5's are closer to 5.5's, while others rely on mental strength, consistency, and wearing the other guy down.

PumpProbe
01-12-2010, 12:01 PM
Here is a video of him playing with a better opponent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeoY5_NFy_s
It seems like this is from half a year ago judging from the post date. If so he had made some good progress.

Ripper014
01-12-2010, 12:16 PM
I assume that during a drilling session he would be working on his game and not just hitting balls back to the player on the other side of the net. So based on that I would say he is closer to a 4.0 he lacks a good shoulder turn on his backhand and pace on his forehand.

LeeD
01-12-2010, 12:21 PM
Yeah, that second vid taken maybe 6 months ago seems to expose quite a few flaws in his hitting.
That one overhead looks particularly bad.
Good groundies, good enough to be 4.5, not backed up by volleys or serves of any significance.
Let's see more half volleys and hitting on the rise. The latter looks atrocious from the few we've seen.

Bashi
01-12-2010, 12:47 PM
You can tell the guy is NOT playing to top speed. He has lowered his racket head speed on most shots on purpose I suppose to play the weaker player appears to be a full 1.5 levels at least away from him.

i would call the guy he's playing a 3.5, his strokes look too good to be a 3

Claudius
01-12-2010, 01:06 PM
The 1st video was so much better, but I'm guessing that's because he actually improved his game.

Claudius
01-12-2010, 01:08 PM
Just out of curiosity, how do you think this guy would do against JollyRoger.

LeeD
01-12-2010, 01:11 PM
Speculation is worth less than zero, as usual, but so are my responses.
I'd bet Jolly's superior service and power, added with quicker footspeed, would really rattle this guy.
This guy would maybe try to out consistent Jolly, something I see not happenning.

xFullCourtTenniSx
01-12-2010, 01:21 PM
^ One can be an extremely high level player without playing any volleys, ever (at least in theory :) ).

Oh. Are you referring to that thread someone made about a 4.0 volleying better than Soderling? :)

i would call the guy he's playing a 3.5, his strokes look too good to be a 3

I wouldn't say his strokes look good... But what comes off the racket as well as his ability to cover the court and get balls back is way too good for a 3.0.

Speculation is worth less than zero, as usual, but so are my responses.
I'd bet Jolly's superior service and power, added with quicker footspeed, would really rattle this guy.
This guy would maybe try to out consistent Jolly, something I see not happenning.

Hmmm... When you mention service power, if Jolly can keep his first serves at a solid percentage, he won't get broken. And this "4.5" will have all of his second serves pounded (whether they go in or not I won't even guess at). So I think it'll just be Jolly waiting to string along 4 good points to get a break. But it really comes down to first serve percentage. But I still think Jolly has the slight edge.

yshengyi
01-12-2010, 01:30 PM
Could you provide a link of Jolly's video?
Thanks

Speculation is worth less than zero, as usual, but so are my responses.
I'd bet Jolly's superior service and power, added with quicker footspeed, would really rattle this guy.
This guy would maybe try to out consistent Jolly, something I see not happenning.

Bud
01-12-2010, 02:03 PM
Let me guess... he's really an ATP touring pro! :neutral:

this made me lol:twisted:

I ain't falling into THAT trap, again :-D

Sumo
01-12-2010, 02:24 PM
Could you provide a link of Jolly's video?
Thanks

link is in his sig.

aimr75
01-12-2010, 03:00 PM
Just out of curiosity, how do you think this guy would do against JollyRoger.

some of you guys are really too fixated on jolly and his game.. sure he has made some comments in the past, but making bets, monitoring his win/loss record in comp, pitting his skills against others on this board.. dont think this really happens to anyone else on this board

OliverSimon
01-12-2010, 03:19 PM
NOT 4.5 more like 4.0

fruitytennis1
01-12-2010, 03:36 PM
Here is a video of him playing with a better opponent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeoY5_NFy_s
It seems like this is from half a year ago judging from the post date. If so he had made some good progress.

Hello 4.0. This vid proves it pretty much.

Pushmaster
01-12-2010, 05:16 PM
Looks like at least a weak 4.5, hard to tell if he's a strong 4.5 though since he's just going through the motions against a typical 3.5 hacker.

LeeD
01-12-2010, 05:21 PM
Most strong 4.5's I know have some shots that are easily 5.5 levels, just not all the shots.
Don't see that here at all.
Even as a 3.5 35 years ago, lots the A-Open players watched my serves and overheads, half volleys and movement closely. They knew something was coming.
Strong 4.5? No, but maybe belongs playing 4.5 level. A strong 4.5 gets out of there within a year or two. No chance here.

Zachol82
01-12-2010, 05:40 PM
I also wanted to point out that the guy he's hitting against, in the 1st video, has a really loopy serve. Not only that, it seems like he's taking the racquet back AND loading his weight on the back foot, getting ready to explode into his serve...yet there were no explosions =|. What the hell is the point of the elegant-looking wind-up service motion if he's not even going to transfer any of that energy into the serve?

Also, learning how to play at the net/volley is something everyone should consider. It's extremely effective against most players. For example, look at 2:30 on the video (http://www.youtube.com/user/yshengyi#p/a/u/1/NtytGp6hzJ4), even though the guy in the white isn't even anything close compared to the one in black, he can easily get a point just by approaching the net on that one shot. Yes, he was returning a short bh-slice, but still he got the point because he was at the net nonetheless.

xFullCourtTenniSx
01-12-2010, 05:44 PM
Looks like at least a weak 4.5, hard to tell if he's a strong 4.5 though since he's just going through the motions against a typical 3.5 hacker.

He's not "going through the motions". Look at his practice videos. Those are his LEGIT groundstrokes! lol

ms87
01-12-2010, 07:17 PM
He would probably eat JollyRoger for breakfast.

yes but that's not saying much lol

Claudius
01-12-2010, 08:22 PM
Hello 4.0. This vid proves it pretty much.

Not really...this was several months ago.

Tennis_Monk
01-12-2010, 08:50 PM
Based on where i play, i would call this guy a strong 4.0. I wil switch to his backhand in a heart beat!.

Rest of them, while clean, doesnt appeal too strong to me but as many of you pointed out may be he is just playing "down" to keep up with other guy.

0d1n
01-13-2010, 12:22 AM
I assume that during a drilling session he would be working on his game and not just hitting balls back to the player on the other side of the net. So based on that I would say he is closer to a 4.0 he lacks a good shoulder turn on his backhand and pace on his forehand.

Really ?? Is that what you see from where you're sitting ?? No shoulder turn ?? Hmmmmmmm

Pushmaster
01-13-2010, 07:15 AM
He's not "going through the motions". Look at his practice videos. Those are his LEGIT groundstrokes! lol

I just saw that, lol. Your right, that's his best game. The guy is a 4.0 who can occasionally hit a 4.5 level shot. Would get eaten alive by a legitimate 4.5 player.

raiden031
01-13-2010, 07:40 AM
For those who think he's only a 4.0, remember there is no requirement to being a 4.5 other than to beat most 4.0s! This guy *looks* good enough to beat some of the computer-rated 4.5s who I have played against, that is for sure.

dr325i
01-13-2010, 07:46 AM
Hello 4.0. This vid proves it pretty much.

No it doesn't -- MANY things can happen in 6 months and looking at his latest video (though against the weak opponent), it is obvious that he improved...smoother strokes, consistent, etc.

However, this all means nothing unless we can see the actual match play. The guy definitely has the strokes and is capable of being a 4.5 level (as compared to the 4.5's in S Florida lets say), but again, I have seen people play great during the practices and warm ups and completely fall apart at the match level...

yshengyi
01-13-2010, 07:49 AM
Thanks a lot!

link is in his sig.

nethawkwenatchee
01-13-2010, 07:50 AM
It looks like they are tanking on purpose to look slow and uncoordinated (maybe a joke match)

...He's probably a 5.0 + :)


...who knows though

yshengyi
01-14-2010, 07:39 AM
here is another video of him hitting with a college team assistant coach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_ovP8Ruxds


comments are welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/user/yshengyi#p/a/u/1/NtytGp6hzJ4

LeeD
01-14-2010, 10:42 AM
Still 4-4.5 to me.
Volleys are not there yet.
Serves are mechanically old school with no explosion. Probably solid 115mph first at best, not good enough for a full time coach. Having a full time coach.
Backhand very good.
Forehand good, but soooooo deliberate and mechanical, makes me think he'll break down if the incoming ball breaks 40 mph.
Movement....not good for his level or horrible for where he wants to be. I assume he wants to be an Open level player someday. Not one who enters Open tourney, but one who goes multiple round each time.
A very well trained player, but not a natural, so he'll have to work his butt off to get the illusive "something extra".... to make solid Open levels.
TonLars might triple bagel him.

drake
01-14-2010, 10:47 AM
This is a great example how difficult it is to rate a player based on practice videos. I've watched 3 of his videos and each one is different. The only thing common, is the lack of pace from each of his hitting partners. Judging from his all around strokes and foot movement, which can be even more difficult with slow balls, he is at least a solid 4.5 player. As others have mentioned, his backhand technique is superb.

xFullCourtTenniSx
01-14-2010, 02:42 PM
I just saw that, lol. Your right, that's his best game. The guy is a 4.0 who can occasionally hit a 4.5 level shot. Would get eaten alive by a legitimate 4.5 player.

I wouldn't jump straight to "best" game, but that's his normal game. He isn't playing down much, if at all.

No it doesn't -- MANY things can happen in 6 months and looking at his latest video (though against the weak opponent), it is obvious that he improved...smoother strokes, consistent, etc.

However, this all means nothing unless we can see the actual match play. The guy definitely has the strokes and is capable of being a 4.5 level (as compared to the 4.5's in S Florida lets say), but again, I have seen people play great during the practices and warm ups and completely fall apart at the match level...

Well, as much as I agree with that (top reasons I'm still not fully committing to anything), his latest practice video showed much of the same, but under less pressure since he was hitting and not drilling.

His "matchplay" video we can't fully consider legitimate because I bet a good chunk of errors were cut out.

Still, his strokes are good, but are they rock solid under pressure? We have no real evidence to say anything for sure except that he's around a 4.0 based on what we saw. If he's having a great day, I'm pretty sure he can give 4.5s a good match. But can he do that on a normal day is what we're trying to figure out.

RoddickAce
01-14-2010, 03:02 PM
This guy has really fluid strokes, and can seem to generate more pace if he wanted to. I usually play in 4.0/4.5 tournaments (Div B in Canada), and I think this guy can beat me pretty easily.

Kick_It
01-14-2010, 05:30 PM
... I'll go so far as to say (hopefully without putting a Barricade V in my mouth) that you never really can tell someone's NTRP rating accurately solely by looking at fragments of videos posted on the web.

It really takes results against multiple opponents in serious competitive situations.

I'll go so far as to say I really don't think NTRP matters much for kids in particular for a few reasons:
1) Most kids compete in divisions where NTRP is irrelevant - age groups, or high school.
2) Most college coaches don't care about NTRP ratings; they care about rankings and consistently beating solid competition in tough situations - like reaching semis in big age group tournaments by beating tough opponents.
3) As far as I know (i could be wrong) there aren't NTRP leagues for kids (i could be mis-informed), though the age limits for adult league just got dropped to 19 or 18 (i could be wrong).

I've previously stated my opinion, and later videos don't change that. It is good to see he's working on his volleys and that he is improving. To me improving is what matters so much more than what random people (like me) write on some web board ;-)

Good Luck! K_I

TnTBigman
01-14-2010, 07:29 PM
Looks like a solid 4.0 or 4.5. Took it a little easy with his hitting partner. I agree with the comment that he (4.5) looks like he can swing much faster and harder.

GeorgeLucas
01-14-2010, 07:35 PM
You crusty old guys just can't stomach that loss of pride: this kid is a solid 4.5 and is PROBABLY BETTER THAN YOU LOL.

Tina
01-14-2010, 07:35 PM
He was a strong hitter in this video. -Tina

equinox
02-22-2011, 10:29 PM
You crusty old guys just can't stomach that loss of pride: this kid is a solid 4.5 and is PROBABLY BETTER THAN YOU LOL.

perhaps, but unlike other posters in this thread i can make an actual comparison.

he (Kitamura) played in a local oz 4.0+ tournament against my former team mate and opposition i've seen beaten.

Kitamura lost 2,3 to the kid (wright, brother of itf player jordan?) who was then beaten by ex team mate (5.0, 450AR) in 2x TB next rd.

the player (lee) who got dlb bagled by eventual winner was a very good ball striker 4.0, another ex team mate did him 6-3 6-0 league pennant, waiting for his high risk shot errors.

http://www.tennisresults.com.au/tournaments/scores.asp?tid=5172143&eid=10

Kitmura is dominating his local iowa league with a rating 4.5.

http://tennisengine.com/league/index.asp?lgid=6916

semifinalist open.

http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/tournamenthome/results.aspx?T=85828

he is a solid 4.5.

amazes me how far you guys are off. do you even play or watch your local adult leagues?

GetBetterer
02-22-2011, 10:41 PM
Sort of going with LeeD on this one.

TennisAddict121
02-23-2011, 01:03 AM
He's decent, nothing impressive. His shots seem really slow and inconsistent for me at least. His strokes look really nice though compared to mine.

dozu
02-23-2011, 05:15 AM
going with the consensus here.... the game has not become his 2nd nature yet where he can just pull it out and whip it.

serve is still very 'pushy' (like my sucky serve lol)... Lee is generous with 115... this serve is high 90's at most.. indoor surface is helping a lot... a good hack like me can prolly take a full swing on it on medium paced outdoor courts.

FH, quite deliberate... racket drop is stiff, losing all that free acceleration.. nobody will be afraid of it.

BH, good form, but nobody will be afraid of it.

volleys - bh ok, but FH needs work... he can prolly use a more EFH grip, to have more of a 'catching the ball' visual.. right now with the true conti, he has no idea where the hand is on the FH volley.

I played somebody similar years ago - well trained, short build, text book looking strokes, but just lacking that 'something special'... was not much of a fight.

rating wise - hard to say without results.. I have to guess he will do well at the 4.0s... where he wont face a lot of pace, so his form will hold up well... the 4.5's are infested with too many sharks... he will have trouble with either guys in that 4.5 shirtless video.

In general his game gives a very 'pushy' impression... not a lot of racket speed that looser arm/wrist could generate.

dozu
02-23-2011, 05:45 AM
perhaps, but unlike other posters in this thread i can make an actual comparison.

he (Kitamura) played in a local oz 4.0+ tournament against my former team mate and opposition i've seen beaten.

Kitamura lost 2,3 to the kid (wright, brother of itf player jordan?) who was then beaten by ex team mate (5.0, 450AR) in 2x TB next rd.

the player (lee) who got dlb bagled by eventual winner was a very good ball striker 4.0, another ex team mate did him 6-3 6-0 league pennant, waiting for his high risk shot errors.

http://www.tennisresults.com.au/tournaments/scores.asp?tid=5172143&eid=10

Kitmura is dominating his local iowa league with a rating 4.5.

http://tennisengine.com/league/index.asp?lgid=6916

semifinalist open.

http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/tournamenthome/results.aspx?T=85828

he is a solid 4.5.

amazes me how far you guys are off. do you even play or watch your local adult leagues?

the consensus of strong 4.0 to weak 4.5 aint far off... on your links, he lost first round in 1 tourney, beat some beginner in the Q and the lost the SF in another, and in some tennis club social thing beat a bunch of beginners.... his rating is 4.5 then fine, 4.5 it is... but there is nothing solid in the results.

Tennis Dunce
02-23-2011, 10:28 AM
4.25


10char

Djokovicfan4life
02-23-2011, 10:37 AM
This guy could easily be a 4.5. Footwork was above average, and that in itself means he's at least a 4.0. Then add the solid strokes and a serve that looks like it won't break down (although not that powerful) and you have a 4.5 player.

only4theweak187
02-23-2011, 11:09 AM
need vid against more solid opponent

mordecai
02-24-2011, 11:58 PM
i don't like his serve technique at all

mightyrick
02-25-2011, 06:42 AM
Just to parrot what others are saying, this opponent is just pretty bad. The opponent might be a really bad 3.5 -- maybe at really good 3.0.

I like the 4.5 guy. I think he's got solid stuff.

The opponent is also giving perfect examples of how *not* to hit a slice -- forehand or backhand. Every time the opponent hits a slice, it is almost always near the middle of the court at the service line. It sits up and lets the 4.5 guy crush it. The opponent also has a horrible slice lob. He never lobs it back to the baseline -- not once. And the 4.5 guy is as SHORT as a hobbit. He should be easily lobbed to death.

The hero player still might be a 4.5, but I think he would have a lot of trouble against someone with a more complete game.

HunterST
02-25-2011, 10:57 AM
Just to parrot what others are saying, this opponent is just pretty bad. The opponent might be a really bad 3.5 -- maybe at really good 3.0.

I like the 4.5 guy. I think he's got solid stuff.

The opponent is also giving perfect examples of how *not* to hit a slice -- forehand or backhand. Every time the opponent hits a slice, it is almost always near the middle of the court at the service line. It sits up and lets the 4.5 guy crush it. The opponent also has a horrible slice lob. He never lobs it back to the baseline -- not once. And the 4.5 guy is as SHORT as a hobbit. He should be easily lobbed to death.

The hero player still might be a 4.5, but I think he would have a lot of trouble against someone with a more complete game.

What is it with people thinking a moonball is an ultimate weapon? I've heard people say they'd beat a top 10 nationally ranked 12 year old with lobs, and now this 4.5 player could be "easily lobbed to death."

This level of player has seen moonball after moonball. Not only will they be able to handle them, they will hit attacking shots off of them.

jhick
02-25-2011, 12:19 PM
Still 4-4.5 to me.


You do realize that anything greater than 4.0 means 4.5 right? For instance, if you are computer rated 4.01 then for USTA league play you are a 4.5.

LeeD
02-25-2011, 12:27 PM
Huge difference between a guy who goes to quarters in 3.5 getting bumped to 4.0 and a rated 4.5 going thru the gears heading to A/Open the next year.

groundbreaker
02-25-2011, 12:32 PM
This guy is minimum 4.0, and he is likely a 4.5 as the OP says.

The only things I would say are that he would have to play somebody better. The other thing is that his serve isn't too powerful for a 4.5 rating.

Doesn't really matter since I have seen a few local 4.5's who don't have a powerful serve but can still dominate. Every player is different.

I like the backhand. Very fluid!

mightyrick
02-25-2011, 12:39 PM
What is it with people thinking a moonball is an ultimate weapon? I've heard people say they'd beat a top 10 nationally ranked 12 year old with lobs, and now this 4.5 player could be "easily lobbed to death."

This level of player has seen moonball after moonball. Not only will they be able to handle them, they will hit attacking shots off of them.

I'm not saying that he won't be able to handle a moonball or a lob at the baseline. He just might be able to. I can't say if he could hit an attacking shot or not because his opponent didn't hit a single moonball to him at the baseline.

Regardless, I don't think that he won't be able to handle it as well as an easy overhead one foot behind the net. Which is exactly what kind of "lobs" the opponent was giving him.

Ross K
02-25-2011, 12:57 PM
Very hard to tell as, though he looked relatively smooth, he wasn't exactly being made to work his socks off, as it were. TBH I was actually more interested in looking at the slightly comical hitting partner in the white with the funny serve motion and footwork.:)

tennismonkey
02-25-2011, 02:34 PM
perhaps, but unlike other posters in this thread i can make an actual comparison.

he (Kitamura) played in a local oz 4.0+ tournament against my former team mate and opposition i've seen beaten.

Kitamura lost 2,3 to the kid (wright, brother of itf player jordan?) who was then beaten by ex team mate (5.0, 450AR) in 2x TB next rd.

the player (lee) who got dlb bagled by eventual winner was a very good ball striker 4.0, another ex team mate did him 6-3 6-0 league pennant, waiting for his high risk shot errors.

http://www.tennisresults.com.au/tournaments/scores.asp?tid=5172143&eid=10

Kitmura is dominating his local iowa league with a rating 4.5.

http://tennisengine.com/league/index.asp?lgid=6916

semifinalist open.

http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/tournamenthome/results.aspx?T=85828

he is a solid 4.5.

amazes me how far you guys are off. do you even play or watch your local adult leagues?

lol.
his name is posted on his videos.
you can look up his usta league record.
he's won matches and been very competitive at the 4.5 level.
therefore . . . . he's a 4.5 player.

simple.

but i guess LeeD could argue that he's a falling 4.5 and regale us about the time he and jonny joe (or as everyone called him JJ) used to hang out and drink whisky at old man mcwiggans tobacco shop back in oh say 1923 you know when dinosaurs still walked the earth.

LeeD
02-25-2011, 03:47 PM
TennisMonkey, you are typing stupid.
I rated this guy "4-4.5" right off the bat, much higher than many other posters who you didn't take a potshot at.
Try counting the total # of posters who rated this guy. Mine rating is higher than all but 2.

tennistomcat
02-28-2011, 09:15 PM
it seemed clear to me from the 1st video with this guys strokes, form, & footwork that he was at least 4.5 unless he falls apart mentally in every meaningful match. it really looks like he's holding back a decent amount against that 1st opponent - i thought i saw him get frustrated when that guy couldn't return one of his shots. guy seems to have good results too. looks like a solid player - maybe he's got weapons but plays solid & only takes it to the opponent if needed - alot of ppl like to win this way - we don't have enough matchplay to tell but it would be nice to see him go all out against another high level player. He did well in that open division tourney so that says something.

peoplespeace
03-01-2011, 05:44 AM
looks solid techniquewise but how about the rallies that were edited away?? Dont think there were tow consecutive rallies. Could mean that he learned to play as a kid but has no consistency. Lest see some unedited footage. People get too impressed with 2 hrs boiled down to 3 min. Only means that u know shadow tennis.

equinox
03-01-2011, 10:00 AM
looks solid techniquewise but how about the rallies that were edited away?? Dont think there were tow consecutive rallies. Could mean that he learned to play as a kid but has no consistency. Lest see some unedited footage. People get too impressed with 2 hrs boiled down to 3 min. Only means that u know shadow tennis.

he just can't win. shows decent video form, has multiple results at an advanced level. yet feel the need to bash him..

put up or shutup, lets see you play better even against a mirror. :D

Fugazi
03-01-2011, 10:24 AM
Seems more like a 5.0 to me. It's a bit difficult to tell since he plays with low intensity against a much weaker opponent. If he can crank up the intensity/racquet head speed/footwork against better players, then he could be as high as 5.5. Very fluid strokes, relatively harmless serve, and the 1HBH may be an issue when attacked, even though it looks good.

sabala
03-02-2011, 11:33 AM
Dude is totally playing down in level. Loose fluid strokes, in control, relaxed, moving the feet a lot even against a lower skilled opponent.

My guess is he is a 6.0+ player, his name is Inigo Montoya and he is really...left handed.

Wicked4hand
03-02-2011, 04:50 PM
Bend your knees while u vollying.... Ur not walking @ the park

WildVolley
03-02-2011, 07:36 PM
From that video, there's no evidence to counter a rating of 4.5. He isn't being pushed, but his strokes are smooth, his form looks good, and he's consistent.

The weakest thing on the video are the volleys, but perhaps he was trying to extend the rallies.

jdubbs
03-02-2011, 08:40 PM
Don't want to bust yer bubble, but a 4.5 in Iowa is a 4.0 in many other places. His serve is what...60mph? In most metro areas where there are tons of good players, he's a 4.0

Kobble
03-02-2011, 11:57 PM
I felt I played at 4.5 level, and his game is very similar to mine. Probably is 4.5.

jdubbs
03-03-2011, 04:48 AM
I felt I played at 4.5 level, and his game is very similar to mine. Probably is 4.5.

I Feel i play at a 4.5 level, but my tournament record says I'm a 4.0. Until I start regularly winning tournaments and get bumped, that's where I'll stay.

jhick
03-03-2011, 09:00 AM
Don't want to bust yer bubble, but a 4.5 in Iowa is a 4.0 in many other places. His serve is what...60mph? In most metro areas where there are tons of good players, he's a 4.0

I've heard this said before. Personally I don't think there's solid evidence to back up this claim.

A few years ago my Northern 4.5 team won nationals, and Iowa from the Missouri Valley section had a very solid team that our team had a close match with. I believe we won 4-1, but 4 out of the 5 matches went to 3 sets. I think this Iowa team also had a couple of losses during the year, though they may have not fielded their strongest lineup in those matches.

10ACE
03-03-2011, 09:18 AM
yeah 4.5- placement- consistency- people have mentioned the game play being slow- which it is- so would be interesting to see him hit with someone who makes him adjust a lot faster then in this video.

I mean the guy he's hitting with in the far court is horrible- it's like a grown man beating up on a child.

anontennis
03-05-2011, 07:26 AM
Don't want to bust yer bubble, but a 4.5 in Iowa is a 4.0 in many other places. His serve is what...60mph? In most metro areas where there are tons of good players, he's a 4.0

Where does this myth come from? Anyone know? The NTRP ratings are not dependent upon location.

As for the player in question, how many of you have seen 4.0 players with clean strokes like that? I have never seen a 4.0, even when being fed sitters, look anything like those strokes and their results. I think giving him a 4.0 rating would require the assumption that he has major psychological problems on the court, something that we see no evidence of in this video.

As for the serve, it looks sufficient as is. I have seen doubles matches where former and current D1 level players cannot break the slow-paced serve of a 50-60 year old. To claim that a 4.5 player could cream serves based on the speed alone is quite foolish.

AirK
03-05-2011, 08:25 AM
Don't want to bust yer bubble, but a 4.5 in Iowa is a 4.0 in many other places. His serve is what...60mph? In most metro areas where there are tons of good players, he's a 4.0

...For all we know he could be able to serve faster. What's the point in serving faster when his opponent already has trouble as it is? It's clearly a casual game