PDA

View Full Version : USTA League Ringers


Matt H.
01-14-2010, 01:31 PM
I was at Daytona, FL last weekend for the USTA's 6.5 and 7.5 combo championships.

For the most part, the competition looked pretty fair in all the matches. There was 1 team, 1 particular player though, that absolutely painted the definition of ringer.

If he had been the 4.0, I’d have just shrugged it off and say, it happens. However, he was the 3.5. Ground strokes were huge, VERY nice kick serve. A kick serve worthy of 4.5+ competition. Overall game and consistency was just way too good. It was insulting that he was ranked 3.5 though.

I checked his name on the USTA tennislink site just to see what his stats were. He played combo, adult, and mixed leagues. Including championship/playoff matches, he played a total of 61 matches.

Record: 53-8

Scores were not even close though. Counting all the sets he played, out of 122 total sets, he only lost 12 sets. He had 70 sets won with a score of 6-2 or better. He had 11 bagels.



Meanwhile, my friend plays 2 matches on my 4.0 team, winning one against a 62 year old man, and the other he won 3 and 2, and he gets bumped to 4.5.

In conclusion: I have no idea what the heck the USTA does to come up with a ranking.

ttbrowne
01-15-2010, 03:54 AM
Good ol' USTA. Another example of how inept they are at doing their jobs.

Sumo
01-15-2010, 04:42 AM
I was a ringer this year, but don't feel too bad about it.
I hadn't played any competitive tennis in about 12 yrs and am temporarily relocated for work. The one person in town that I know was on a 3.5 team and asked me to play. It was that or sit on the couch with the dog all fall. I said sure and self rated at 3.5.

Played #1 singles had some fun matches and went undefeated, but being on a .500 team, my wins didn't really make a difference.
End of the season, I got bumped along with all but one of the leagues #1's. The guy who didn't gave me the best match of the season....so, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I'm pleased I got bumped, but the best thing to come out of that league is I'm excited about playing tennis again. First tourney since jr's is next week.

Moral of the story is, not all ringers are the devil.

Topaz
01-15-2010, 04:43 AM
I was at Daytona, FL last weekend for the USTA's 6.5 and 7.5 combo championships.

For the most part, the competition looked pretty fair in all the matches. There was 1 team, 1 particular player though, that absolutely painted the definition of ringer.

If he had been the 4.0, I’d have just shrugged it off and say, it happens. However, he was the 3.5. Ground strokes were huge, VERY nice kick serve. A kick serve worthy of 4.5+ competition. Overall game and consistency was just way too good. It was insulting that he was ranked 3.5 though.

I checked his name on the USTA tennislink site just to see what his stats were. He played combo, adult, and mixed leagues. Including championship/playoff matches, he played a total of 61 matches.

Record: 53-8

Scores were not even close though. Counting all the sets he played, out of 122 total sets, he only lost 12 sets. He had 70 sets won with a score of 6-2 or better. He had 11 bagels.



Meanwhile, my friend plays 2 matches on my 4.0 team, winning one against a 62 year old man, and the other he won 3 and 2, and he gets bumped to 4.5.

In conclusion: I have no idea what the heck the USTA does to come up with a ranking.

Of all the ringer's matches, the only ones that will count toward a rating would be adult league. Combo and mixed will not count.

So, take another look at his results with that in mind. Also keep in mind that ratings are not determined by win/loss record, but by dynamic NTRP of the players plus the score of the match (meaning how many games were won, not *who* won).

And, if he played mostly doubles, that makes it even harder to get bumped up. If he plays a lot of matches, which it sounds like he did...harder to get bumped up.

Compare this to your friend, who played only 2 matches. Were they both singles? Did he self rate? If so, that makes it much more likely that he would be moved up.

So, again, there really isn't that much mystery to it if you take the time to research how ratings are actually determined. There is a wealth of information on the USTA site itself, and I have a thread about it in tips/instruction.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=305922

Nellie
01-15-2010, 04:57 AM
I think that you can "hide" a ringer in mixed. There are way too many players out of level with a mixed-exclusive rating. I think most of it is pretty innocent (3.0/5.0 spouces playing together), but it's irratating to play someone with a computer rating way, way, out of level based on mixed resuts.

Topaz
01-15-2010, 08:04 AM
I think that you can "hide" a ringer in mixed. There are way too many players out of level with a mixed-exclusive rating. I think most of it is pretty innocent (3.0/5.0 spouces playing together), but it's irratating to play someone with a computer rating way, way, out of level based on mixed resuts.

Yes, I've seen many examples of that as well. I'm also very wary of someone who has a mixed exclusive rating.

darkblue
01-28-2010, 10:59 AM
>>worthy of 4.5+

and lose that much in 3.5? don't think so.

there's a 4.5 worthy player playing in 3.5, but he intentionally walks funny on the court and manages his score. (his opponents' game score goes 6-5-4-3-2-1-0-6-5-4-3-2-1-2-3-4-5-6)

Moz
01-28-2010, 01:46 PM
I think that you can "hide" a ringer in mixed.

My partner used to try and hide her ringer in mixed but I found it in the end.

JoelDali
01-29-2010, 11:34 AM
My partner used to try and hide her ringer in mixed but I found it in the end.

Where was the ringer hiding? I found 3 ringers last night behind the ball machines.

decades
01-29-2010, 11:42 AM
I have no idea what the point is of even entering tournaments where you rely on ratings. so you win a 3.5 tourney try playing guys 4.0 and higher. I believe in playing against the best in your age group period. the ratings are about as subjective as it gets and the USTA is a highly political and people are easily manipulated and fooled.

kylebarendrick
01-29-2010, 12:23 PM
Why restrict yourself to playing people in a certain age group? If you aren't playing open tournaments then you should just give up the sport.

decades
01-29-2010, 12:25 PM
Why restrict yourself to playing people in a certain age group? If you aren't playing open tournaments then you should just give up the sport.

who said give up the sport? what satisfaction is there in being a 3.5 "champ" when some guy who 4.5 and could care less about entering tournaments could clean your clock in straight sets? bragging rights at the neighborhood cocktail party?

JRstriker12
01-29-2010, 12:51 PM
who said give up the sport? what satisfaction is there in being a 3.5 "champ" when some guy who 4.5 and could care less about entering tournaments could clean your clock in straight sets? bragging rights at the neighborhood cocktail party?

Because you are playing for you and the enjoyment of the sport and not for some 4.5 dude (who is also playing NTRP tennis FWIW) and couldn't care.

By your logic what's the point of limiting play by your age group when there's some 16 year old who could beat you 0 and 0. Better yet, you'll never beat Federer, so just give up the game.

Come on, you know very well that the point of NTRP tennis is a create divisions and leagues so the average person can find a level where they are competitive and enjoy tennis.

If that's not you bag, then more power to you, but getting murdered by some ex-juniors player in your age group doesn't make you any better than the people playing USTA league tennis.

decades
01-29-2010, 12:54 PM
yeah I don't mind the usta helping people find their level and facilitate play. but tournaments? well I just don't get it but be that as it may your point about 16 year olds is lost on me. That's why I advocate open age group tournaments. So that you don't have to compare yourself to some 16 year old when you are 55. Finding out how you stand vs. anybody and everybody in your age group makes sense to me. Finding out who the "best" 3.5 player is (provided you don't have ringers in there), does not.

Sumo
01-29-2010, 01:05 PM
yeah I don't mind the usta helping people find their level and facilitate play. but tournaments? well I just don't get it but be that as it may your point about 16 year olds is lost on me. That's why I advocate open age group tournaments. So that you don't have to compare yourself to some 16 year old when you are 55. Finding out how you stand vs. anybody and everybody in your age group makes sense to me. Finding out who the "best" 3.5 player is (provided you don't have ringers in there), does not.

I think it adds one more dimension to the competition.

When playing a rating tourney, you could play the same old guys who have polished strokes but can get around the court or you could come up against a young buck that can get to everything but may struggle with consistency. They add a great level of variety.

JRstriker12
01-29-2010, 01:46 PM
yeah I don't mind the usta helping people find their level and facilitate play. but tournaments? well I just don't get it but be that as it may your point about 16 year olds is lost on me. That's why I advocate open age group tournaments. So that you don't have to compare yourself to some 16 year old when you are 55. Finding out how you stand vs. anybody and everybody in your age group makes sense to me. Finding out who the "best" 3.5 player is (provided you don't have ringers in there), does not.

My point about the 16 year old is even though you are playing open age tournaments, you are still slicing up the competion into groups and limiting who you play. Same as the NTRP tournaments - The NTRP slices just tend to be a little smaller. They still serve the same function.

Isn't the point of only playing people in your age group is to try to create a group of people who have similar physical abilites? To create a more level playing field?

Same difference with NTRP.

J_R_B
01-29-2010, 02:47 PM
who said give up the sport? what satisfaction is there in being a 3.5 "champ" when some guy who 4.5 and could care less about entering tournaments could clean your clock in straight sets? bragging rights at the neighborhood cocktail party?

The satisfaction comes because it's fun to compete in tournaments against people at your competitive level, and it's fun to win. If you are a 3.5, what piont is there in entering an Open or 35 tournament if you're just going to get smoked in your first match against a 5.0 or 5.5 player? Having NTRP level tournaments allows people to compete in tournaments who otherwise wouldn't. I kind of understand your point that being the "3.5 champion" doesn't really mean a lot, but it's not the significance of the victory that matters, it's the competition itself.

ALten1
01-30-2010, 04:19 AM
There's a guy in our league here that self rated as a 3.0 two years ago. He hadn't played in 15-20 years but he was good back then. He is now 4.0 but should be 4.5. As a 3.0 his topspin serve bounce was at least 6'. He can kick the ball either way with his ground strokes...sucked playing him. BTW he is a real nice guy and would offer up advice to anyone that asked him for it.