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Hankenstein
01-17-2010, 10:59 AM
This was today, Tiebreak first set.. 6-6,, iīm serving..

What do you guys say about this call?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_YbOUXI2XA

If you donīt hear, the call is "out"

Sumo
01-17-2010, 11:07 AM
It sure looks like you got hosed.

MrCLEAN
01-17-2010, 11:13 AM
Bad call...

Bud
01-17-2010, 12:39 PM
This was today, Tiebreak first set.. 6-6,, iīm serving..

What do you guys say about this call?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_YbOUXI2XA

If you donīt hear, the call is "out"

It was more in than out. Definitely a bad call.

Ripper014
01-17-2010, 01:18 PM
Tight call... I would have given it to you... but I have played a lot of matches in my life and some players that play hard and want it that much honestly see calls like this out.

Sometimes it really is not personal... they just want it that much and their eyes don't show their brains what is actually happening. Bad luck... but your response was not so great either.

If you truly feel it was done on purpose call his next two serves out and take the point back. It makes a pretty good impression in my experience.

Lex
01-17-2010, 01:24 PM
Yep, you got hooked. No doubt about that call.

I know it's hard to keep your cool when it happens.


Better luck next time.

Moz
01-17-2010, 01:53 PM
Looks like a bad one.

I like your reaction - complete poker face! ha ha.

Did you win?

AM95
01-17-2010, 02:04 PM
Tight call... I would have given it to you... but I have played a lot of matches in my life and some players that play hard and want it that much honestly see calls like this out.

Sometimes it really is not personal... they just want it that much and their eyes don't show their brains what is actually happening. Bad luck... but your response was not so great either.

If you truly feel it was done on purpose call his next two serves out and take the point back. It makes a pretty good impression in my experience.

thats what my coach says..and im not sure how much i agree with it.

i mean, from the fairness standpoint, its the right thing to do.

but then that doesnt make you better then the person who hooked you. its a tough patch in morality

Annika
01-17-2010, 02:38 PM
Looked like a bad call. Who was filming you as you played is what I want to know? :???:

Ripper014
01-17-2010, 02:38 PM
thats what my coach says..and im not sure how much i agree with it.

i mean, from the fairness standpoint, its the right thing to do.

but then that doesnt make you better then the person who hooked you. its a tough patch in morality

I said if you feel you have been hooked on purpose... it is to set a statement for the balance of the match.

Tennisman912
01-17-2010, 03:17 PM
Looked pretty good too me as well, you were hooked plain and simple. I probably would have said, you do realize the lines are good right?

TM

DownTheLine
01-17-2010, 03:24 PM
Tennismom have you noticed that getting hooked becomes more popular in college tennis then juniors or the other way around?

In one match in a tournament I had 6-7 aces 5 of them called out.

EDIT: On topic. It's alot different getting hooked early in the set and getting hooked at 6-6 in a tie-break. I hope you won the match?

Steady Eddy
01-17-2010, 04:07 PM
I sure didn't see it "out". Tough when it's such a big point.

Mister Goulash
01-17-2010, 04:13 PM
Yea rough call - way to go for the 2nd serve ace at 6-6 in the tiebreak :)

DownTheLine
01-17-2010, 04:25 PM
Yea rough call - way to go for the 2nd serve ace at 6-6 in the tiebreak :)

Sure takes some guts.

darrinbaker00
01-17-2010, 05:48 PM
This was today, Tiebreak first set.. 6-6,, iīm serving..

What do you guys say about this call?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_YbOUXI2XA

If you donīt hear, the call is "out"
You got Hooked with a capital H, my friend. Who eventually won the match?

jefferson
01-17-2010, 06:39 PM
I think he wished it out! Looked good to me too. Terrible time in the match to "miss" a call! Sorry that blows

Bashi
01-17-2010, 06:44 PM
i wish i could reach through the screen and throttle the guy that made that call

johndagolfer
01-17-2010, 07:02 PM
I feel for you dude, that ball was definitely in. However, I feel that your reaction didn't do anything but hurt you. I know for me, that my coach, when I was younger would have yanked me off of the court for something like that.

My question to everyone else is, have you ever erupted at your opponent over a call you felt you were wrong about?

I remember in HS that a player that I felt was better than me (and I beat), shouted at me saying I was a cheat and that his serves were in(people watching disagreed with him). He got so ****ed that after his tantrum he actually tried to hit me with a serve.

JavierLW
01-17-2010, 07:50 PM
This was today, Tiebreak first set.. 6-6,, iīm serving..

What do you guys say about this call?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_YbOUXI2XA

If you donīt hear, the call is "out"

It's a bad call, so what?

Luckily it's just a tennis match and your life and your well being didnt depend on it.

West Coast Ace
01-17-2010, 08:25 PM
I'm with the others - obvious bad call - but you didn't handle well. I probably would have asked him if he were sure it was clearly out and reminded him "if it's not clearly out, it's in" and that's how I've been calling the lines on my side. And if he responds poorly then Ripper014's advice isn't that bad.

equinox
01-17-2010, 09:27 PM
Your own fault. Should have done a safe 1st service. Seriously why go for the low percentage play on a 2nd serve? In a tournament setting on a big point or tight match, liners will get called out on hardcourts every time by all but the most honest players.

Dreamcastin
01-17-2010, 10:14 PM
to the people that said your lost your cool, they should be thankfull it wasnt me, i would have made mcenroe look polite.

matchmaker
01-17-2010, 11:35 PM
The ball was definitely in, your opponent is a cheater, that is all there is to say.

I hope he sees your clip on youtube and sinks to the ground in shame.

TennisandMusic
01-18-2010, 01:17 AM
Private video now?

Hankenstein
01-18-2010, 01:26 AM
Private video now?

Oh, sorry. Now itīs back to normal status.

TennisandMusic
01-18-2010, 01:37 AM
Wow, that was flat out cheating. It was smack dab on the line.

Hankenstein
01-18-2010, 01:41 AM
Wow, that was flat out cheating. It was smack dab on the line.

Yep! I was so 100 % sure it was on the line, so i started to walk to the side, and he just said "out".. and I asked him "no way,, iīm 100 % sure itīs on the line, and he just said ,, "just out ,7-6, my serve.."

I have to get used to this. thankfully itīs very uncommon here that you face someone that takes those advantages..

edberg505
01-18-2010, 02:41 AM
Yep! I was so 100 % sure it was on the line, so i started to walk to the side, and he just said "out".. and I asked him "no way,, iīm 100 % sure itīs on the line, and he just said ,, "just out ,7-6, my serve.."

I have to get used to this. thankfully itīs very uncommon here that you face someone that takes those advantages..

That's some BS. That ball was clearly in. I used to play against my old team mate from my undergrad and he was notorious for making bad calls. So one day I played him in a match and video taped it. Later in the week we watching it and he saw some of the calls. Then he felt pretty bad about it. So, I don't think he was trying to cheat me based on his reaction after watching the video. I guess you will never know if the guy actually cheated you or if he just made a mistake. Show it to him and see what he says.

nickarnold2000
01-18-2010, 06:34 AM
It looked like an "in ball" but why hit such a close 2nd serve(to the line) to begin with? Especially in a tie break? Even Fed doesn't do that very often. Be a little more conservative with your 2nds, IMO.

Fedace
01-18-2010, 06:38 AM
This was today, Tiebreak first set.. 6-6,, iīm serving..

What do you guys say about this call?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_YbOUXI2XA

If you donīt hear, the call is "out"

What is his name ? I will report him to USTA for you .... he will be BANNED for life from all League play....:evil:

THESEXPISTOL
01-18-2010, 07:26 AM
What is his name ? I will report him to USTA for you .... he will be BANNED for life from all League play....:evil:

yeah.. USTA has big influence in Sweden. They will nuke the cheaters house without NATO approval :evil:

Fedace
01-18-2010, 07:59 AM
yeah.. USTA has big influence in Sweden. They will nuke the cheaters house without NATO approval :evil:

or just a silent guided cellulose bomb. He was probably surprised that you hit such a good 2nd serve. that looked like Pete Sampras 2nd serve so he probably thought this can't be happening and called it out....:)

Bashi
01-18-2010, 09:19 AM
Your own fault. Should have done a safe 1st service. Seriously why go for the low percentage play on a 2nd serve? In a tournament setting on a big point or tight match, liners will get called out on hardcourts every time by all but the most honest players.

yeah, how DARE you hit a good serve and expect someone to call it fairly?

Taxvictim
01-18-2010, 10:08 AM
There's a very nice guy at our club who, once per match, will make a truly bizarre and incorrect call. The ball will be in by three inches and he will call it out. Nobody thinks he's hooking on purpose. He usually does it at a time when it's no big advantage whether he won the point or not. Just every once in a while he sees the ball completely wrong.

To the OP: Upon further review of the tape, it looks like you foot-faulted. If your back foot was touching the imaginary extension of the center hash mark at the time you started your service motion, it's a foot fault. Just ask Canas. (It may just be the camera angle, though.)

You still didn't say whether you won the tiebreak!

kylebarendrick
01-18-2010, 11:20 AM
People will screw up calls. It is easy to look at a video and declare a call to be horrible - but your opponent didn't have that luxury. Did he hook you on purpose? Maybe. Was it wishful thinking? Also maybe. It was a ball on the line which indicates it was close.

Most people that make bad calls honestly believe they are making the correct call.

gameboy
01-18-2010, 12:47 PM
Even the best umpires, lines judge, referees, etc. make mistakes. And those people get paid and have years of training behind them.

Expecting your opponent to make a correct call every time is just not realistic. Even the video shows it was a pretty close call. I am also guessing that if we looked at the entire match, there may be a call or two that you made that was questionable as well.

The best way to handle it is to just calm down and play the next point hard because you still have not lost the match yet.

Larrysümmers
01-18-2010, 02:23 PM
You can't be serious. You CANNOT be SERIOUS! The returner forgot their glasses on that point

TennisandMusic
01-18-2010, 03:23 PM
People will screw up calls. It is easy to look at a video and declare a call to be horrible - but your opponent didn't have that luxury. Did he hook you on purpose? Maybe. Was it wishful thinking? Also maybe. It was a ball on the line which indicates it was close.

Most people that make bad calls honestly believe they are making the correct call.

No, that's a horrible call. It was squarely on the line, or just inside it a bit. I have many times "called" balls I was pretty sure were out but not POSITIVE it didn't clip the line, to be in. Unless you are SURE, the ball is in, and that is how you are supposed to play.

This guys comments were basically saying he stated with certainty that the ball was just wide. The only conclusion is he is either completely blind (he should be standing right on the line!), or a blatant cheater.

borg number one
01-18-2010, 05:01 PM
That was a bad call. I watched that video a few times and it clearly looks on the line, almost completely on the line, or even a bit inside the sideline.

darrinbaker00
01-18-2010, 05:15 PM
It's a bad call, so what?

Luckily it's just a tennis match and your life and your well being didnt depend on it.
BLASPHEMER!!!!! :twisted:

TourTenor
01-18-2010, 05:17 PM
Your own fault. Should have done a safe 1st service. Seriously why go for the low percentage play on a 2nd serve? In a tournament setting on a big point or tight match, liners will get called out on hardcourts every time by all but the most honest players.
You can't be serious ... glad I don't play with your crowd. Would two feet inside the line warrant be safe enough?

gameboy
01-18-2010, 06:48 PM
I just don't understand how everybody gets so excited about a bad call when it happens ALL THE TIME!

Just look at the matches at Australian Open this week. Do you know how often a call gets overturned by the computer? At least several times during a match! And these are trained judges who is doing nothing but looking at that particular line.

If those people are making bad calls every now and then, how do you not expect some bad calls from everyday players?

Expecting perfection on line calls is unreasonable.

borg number one
01-18-2010, 07:16 PM
Very true Gameboy, good point. Yet, I think most of us realize that. Due to how difficult it can be, in my opinion, the best approach is that if you have ANY QUESTION, you give the call to your opponent if you can't get to the ball.

If it's during a point and you are returning the shot, just don't make the call and keep playing the point. Always give your opponent the benefit of that doubt.

Yet, if you do clearly see a ball landing out, even if it's close, by all means, make the call. Finally, if you are playing a USTA Tournament for example and it's a real problem (a pattern by your opponent), don't argue too much, or get too upset, just get a linesperson from the desk. This overall approach worked for me, even from a very young age out on the courts.

ChipNCharge
01-18-2010, 08:04 PM
It's a bad call, so what?

Luckily it's just a tennis match and your life and your well being didnt depend on it.

Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly how you would react if it was YOUR second serve ace that was called out on that point.

joshburger
01-18-2010, 08:09 PM
show your oponent the vid! ha

equinox
01-18-2010, 08:22 PM
i've accepted that the call is my oppositions to make and moved on. Hit within the lines not on them.

JavierLW
01-18-2010, 08:50 PM
Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly how you would react if it was YOUR second serve ace that was called out on that point.

If I thought it wasnt even close I would at least ask him if it was out. If he want to lie about it, there isnt much I can do about it other then at least I know what Im dealing with....

Posting a video of it wouldnt be something Id do, who hasnt seen someone cheat before?

It's like in poker or gambling when everyone tells you these long drawn out storys about how they had this 85% chance of winning but somehow they lost. They are called "bad beat" storys, everyone tells them and people get sick of hearing about it because there are so many of them. (and they are negative)

People cheating and sandbaggers are the "bad beat" storys of tennis.

So again, who cares?

What's the point?, we're supposed to feel sorry for him because someone cheated? Did he lose his house? Get laid off from work?

No, he's playing tennis which is a game, he'll survive.....

pabletion
01-18-2010, 11:03 PM
robbed!!!!!!

I woulnt have given it to him... no way no how, you took it too well.

West Coast Ace
01-19-2010, 12:06 PM
It's like in poker or gambling when everyone tells you these long drawn out storys about how they had this 85% chance of winning but somehow they lost. They are called "bad beat" storys, everyone tells them and people get sick of hearing about it because there are so many of them. (and they are negative)

People cheating and sandbaggers are the "bad beat" storys of tennis.
Your analogy = Epic Fail. Lucky let chords and shanked shots that drop in are the 'bad beats' of tennis. Getting hooked is the equivalent of someone pulling a card of our their sleeve...

I do agree with you that posting a film here isn't going to do much. If the guy has a track record of pulling this stuff, the OP should be outing him in their local tennis community.

Hankenstein
01-19-2010, 12:39 PM
wow, 3 pages with comments on this simple video!

I lost the breaker 8-6 and the match 7-6 6-4. Luckily we won the other single and then the doubles-match.
In the break between set 1 and 2 i said it was noway possible that serve was out and he said,, "itīs my side, iīm the judge"

That the match was videotaped was just a coincidence and it was just good to know i wasnīt so wrong after all.

Ripper014
01-19-2010, 01:28 PM
wow, 3 pages with comments on this simple video!

I lost the breaker 8-6 and the match 7-6 6-4. Luckily we won the other single and then the doubles-match.
In the break between set 1 and 2 i said it was noway possible that serve was out and he said,, "itīs my side, iīm the judge"

That the match was videotaped was just a coincidence and it was just good to know i wasnīt so wrong after all.

Well he is right... and if that is the only call you had issues with during the match you did good.

TourTenor
01-19-2010, 01:48 PM
Well he is right... and if that is the only call you had issues with during the match you did good.
Except that the call may have cost the OP the first set and in turn at least a chance at a third set. One bad call can make a difference. As a one-time bad call, was there anything he could have done? Probably not. If it happened more than once ... perhaps he should have asked for a line judge.

JavierLW
01-19-2010, 01:59 PM
Your analogy = Epic Fail. Lucky let chords and shanked shots that drop in are the 'bad beats' of tennis. Getting hooked is the equivalent of someone pulling a card of our their sleeve...

I do agree with you that posting a film here isn't going to do much. If the guy has a track record of pulling this stuff, the OP should be outing him in their local tennis community.

You're a epic fail for using the unoriginal term "epic fail".

How much control do you have over your opponent? NONE!!!!

So if you happen to get the sort that cant make a correct line call or that cheats on you, that's about as random as a bad beat.

People dont write posts about let chords or shanked shots, they just are not that interesting. Thus they dont get any of the press that "bad beats" get.

But cheaters and sandbaggers, we hear ALL THE TIME......

That's what I was getting at.... It's a negative story that is long and drawn out, and really serves no purpose for us other then to solicit our sympathy.

Usually the story teller feels it's interesting as well (because it happened to them), however the story is not interesting because we've heard it thousands of times before.....

Bad beat storys are long and drawn out, it involves setting it up to show how improbable it is although in a lot of cases the storyteller is ill-informed and doesnt realize basic mathematical fundamentals when it comes to odds. (like if something has a whole 12% chance of happening it's not really a HUGE story if it happens.....)

Cheating in tennis storys are the same, they need to be explained... only this one involves video. Sandbagger storys are even worse.

Hitting a net cord or shanking a shot is just not interesting to anyone and it doesnt translate well to a message board and enough people realize that. If it was amazing enough though we'd probably be more interested in that then seeing someone cheat. (if we could see video evidence)

You're right, if it's a habitual cheater they should just get the word out locally, that's about the best we can do when something like this happens. (and even that does little since it will happen again, except for maybe make someone emotionally prepared for it)

Ripper014
01-19-2010, 04:14 PM
Except that the call may have cost the OP the first set and in turn at least a chance at a third set. One bad call can make a difference. As a one-time bad call, was there anything he could have done? Probably not. If it happened more than once ... perhaps he should have asked for a line judge.

I suppose I like to think the best of people... for a questionable call to be made at that point in the match is unfortunate. But again I would never put myself in that position at 6-6 in a tiebreaker. I would hit a quality second serve in place of my first serve, and if I happened to miss... I would not be going for an ace out wide where anything close to the line could be seen as out. Base on the angle of the video it is hard to say if the ball was actually in. I would have given it to the opponent... but a better view would have been from the other side so you could see the gap between the ball and line.

Though matches can turn on a single point... most don't. The OP only complained about the one call... so he could have won the second and third sets. If the ball was in, it was an unfortunate call... if it was in we shouldn't even be addressing it.

I still feel the OP could have handled it a little better... that wasn't the best display of sportsmanship I have seen. All that was missing was a fuzzy tennis ball and the offer to serve him lunch.

West Coast Ace
01-19-2010, 04:42 PM
blah, 'long and drawn out', blah, 'long and drawn out', blah...He really did use 'long and drawn out' twice!

Nice try to weasel out after getting crushed. There was no logic in your comparison. Just admit it and move on.

blue12
01-19-2010, 05:04 PM
wow, 3 pages with comments on this simple video!

I lost the breaker 8-6 and the match 7-6 6-4. Luckily we won the other single and then the doubles-match.
In the break between set 1 and 2 i said it was noway possible that serve was out and he said,, "itīs my side, iīm the judge"

That the match was videotaped was just a coincidence and it was just good to know i wasnīt so wrong after all.



If i get hooked that badly i don't hook back immediately like others have suggested. The best way is to just wait for a point that really matters and take it back then. Of course every point matters in a tiebreaker so i probably just would have waited a couple points so it wasn't. That way you don't give the guy the satisfaction of knowing he got under your skin and you get the point back.

cll30
01-19-2010, 08:58 PM
The ball looked in to me, but you might want to watch that back foot of yours - you're awfully close crossing the center stripe with the back of your foot when you start your serve.

JavierLW
01-20-2010, 07:59 AM
He really did use 'long and drawn out' twice!

Nice try to weasel out after getting crushed. There was no logic in your comparison. Just admit it and move on.

Maybe you should just admit that you're not capable of putting any actual thought into anything.

But instead you're stuck on simple short mindless comparisons and short catch phrases that you've heard someone else use many a time, but they sound good to you.....

Cindysphinx
01-20-2010, 08:45 AM
Wow. I think maybe we're all just in a mood to argue, eh? :)

Yup, OP got hooked. Probably wasn't intentional; it usually isn't.

Serving a second serve ace close to the line is called a "Good serve." You shouldn't have to select your serve location or serve speed as though Mr. Magoo is calling the lines.

And then to rub salt in the wound, we're gonna call OP for a footfault too? Tough crowd. :) :)