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18X20Newbie
01-22-2010, 01:04 PM
I'm having a debate with one of my buddies:

He says "Poly is for ultimate control. To have feel AND power in a poly are all bonuses".

I say "Poly is only for durability because there are numerous multis and even gut that provide the same control and BETTER feel than poly".

Assume it's full beds for both, all things being equal (same price, same time strung, same tension, same gauge, same racquet, etc.)

What do you guys say?

If your resources were limitless, what string would you get?

Bad Dog
01-22-2010, 01:31 PM
I say "Poly is only for durability because there are numerous multis and even gut that provide the same control and BETTER feel than poly".


You are correct.


Assume it's full beds for both, all things being equal (same price, same time strung, same tension, same gauge, same racquet, etc.)

What do you guys say?

If your resources were limitless, what string would you get?


Babolat VS 17 natural gut, or any other natural gut. Otherwise, Wilson's excellent multi, K-Gut 17.

Meaghan
01-22-2010, 01:36 PM
I would say ur friend is right. Full poly is a very controlling, low powered string, it means you can really hit out at the ball without fear of it going astray. Gut etc has good bite and conrol but its not the same, they have other qualities like power and feel. The feel is a very subjective thing and the control factor is the overiding one.

Ive now found a poly with great feel and elasticity, ok it doesnt have quite the control of Alu but the balance of what I want in a string is there. Also a change to lower tensions has helped with spin and control and softness.

Ive never found all these qualities in say X1, nrg2, gamme pro etc etc even gut with its problems with weather......

18X20Newbie
01-22-2010, 02:10 PM
Hmmm. Tied up.

Friend: one

Me: one

So Meaghan, I see your point - feel is subjective. But you're also saying that in your experience, you've NEVER played a multi that has all the qualities (that you want) of your new found poly? So this string provides the perfect balance of everything you want in a string?

May I ask what string that is?

I might be interested in trying it out. The feel I like is firmer than a multi but softer than a poly. I've been realizing that cheapo Prince Syn Gut Original seems to be my "balance".

Bad Dog
01-22-2010, 02:24 PM
I might be interested in trying it out. The feel I like is firmer than a multi but softer than a poly.


If that's exactly what you want, then you might be extremely happy with Wilson’s K-Gut Pro 17 (multifilament). Spins the ball like poly, firmer than most multi strings – with great deadly accurate control and touch/feel – and significantly more arm friendly than poly. I’d say “more ultimate” control than poly strings.

However, it's a bit expensive; poly strings are cheaper. A slightly cheaper price may be a major reason why many people put up with dull, dead no-feel poly.

Bad Dog
01-22-2010, 02:29 PM
Also a change to lower tensions has helped with spin and control and softness.

You are absolutely right; many people don't realize that lower tension may produce much better spin, control and softness – for most strings, regardless of type.

18X20Newbie
01-22-2010, 02:29 PM
Thanks Bad Dog. I'll definitely give that a go...

Price is not a big issue for me. Not saying that I'm rich, but I've NEVER broken ANY string. Always had to cut it out for lack of feel.

Meaghan
01-22-2010, 02:43 PM
Hmmm. Tied up.

Friend: one

Me: one

So Meaghan, I see your point - feel is subjective. But you're also saying that in your experience, you've NEVER played a multi that has all the qualities (that you want) of your new found poly? So this string provides the perfect balance of everything you want in a string?

May I ask what string that is?

I might be interested in trying it out. The feel I like is firmer than a multi but softer than a poly. I've been realizing that cheapo Prince Syn Gut Original seems to be my "balance".

Hey 18x20
I like gut, in fact i love it, particularly the crisper Pacific prime, but in a full bed its too powerful so I balance that with a poly cross, the one I like is alu rough. The problem is it lasts about 3 or 4 hrs before the poly snaps the gut.
The benefits are, serve, its just better than anything, spin, swerve, pace etc etc. The problems are that I cant fully commit to my groundstrokes, as it is too powerful and I sometimes find myelf in between in no mans land. This is the only hybrid I would truly recommend tho (gut/multi mains/poly cross), a hybrid that makes a noticable difference. Other hybids there is very little in it.
Also this only works well in decent weather, when its cold and wet etc the gut feels like an ordinary synthetic.

Full poly is really nice, as Ive stated, "the Luxilon affect" (there's a good article somewhere on these boards about gustavo kuerten) does enable hard hitting groundstrokes to keep the ball in. The other important thing here is grip, These strings added with the advent of a more extreme grip enable even harder hitting and huge amounts of work on the ball. As my grips on both sides are full western I can do this with gut but when you try a good poly you will feel the difference.

For me then it was a balance of the serve (my biggest weapon) = gut, versus groundstrokes (consistency and control) = poly.

My serves are not quite the same with poly as they are with gut on a warm day in summer, but they are not far off. However my groundstrokes and confidence outways this when I have poly in.

As for volleying and touch shots, and it maybe strange but I prefer the deader feel of poly. In fact I find flex in the hoop a big factor here.

So my new string is a poly, its an all round poly. It has really good elasticity and power, its kinda soft and greasy so it has a little more feel whilst still being a fairly dead string. As most polys it has real good grip and spin. All this combined with my racket and the lower tensions I use, where contrary to many beliefs i get more control and grip. It lasts longer than gut/poly and alu (my favourite control string) and its fairly easy on the arm for a poly.
It ticks many of the boxes I want in a string as does my racket.
Its called Polystar Energy and the details are in my sig below :)

Bad Dog
01-22-2010, 02:43 PM
Thanks Bad Dog. I'll definitely give that a go...

Price is not a big issue for me. Not saying that I'm rich, but I've NEVER broken ANY string. Always had to cut it out for lack of feel.

Glad to help. Just in case K-Gut Pro 17 is too firm for you, even though it is a multifilament, I would also recommend K-Gut (non-Pro) 17 which is also firm but only slightly softer and with good ball cupping. And as Meaghan pointed out, lower tensions are better – especially in your 18 X 20. If possible for both strings, ask your stringer to not pre-stretch.

At the same time, if you never break strings, consider trying natural gut in 17 gauge. Everybody should try natural gut at least once, to know the ultimate strings that most other strings are compared against. It will last much longer, and will play great throughout, probably never losing its feel. So you probably won't need to cut them out. Much more economical in the long run. However, you can't store it in a parked car, or play when it is raining or the courts are wet.

Bad Dog
01-22-2010, 02:46 PM
Hey 18x20
I like gut, in fact i love it

Also this only works well in decent weather, when its cold and wet etc the gut feels like an ordinary synthetic.


Completely agree. :)

Meaghan
01-22-2010, 02:56 PM
Also dont go necessarily with convention, work out what kind of player you are and build your racket and strings around that.

I S&V a lot so you see why i would love gut but looking at the rest of my game I have to weigh up the pros and cons. Ad it resulted in me being a full poly kinda guy!!

Also Davydenko's not doing too bad with it in his OPT at about 40lbs.

Meaghan
01-22-2010, 03:04 PM
Here's that string story.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1899876,00.html

BigT
01-23-2010, 07:33 PM
Hey 18x20
I like gut, in fact i love it, particularly the crisper Pacific prime, but in a full bed its too powerful so I balance that with a poly cross, the one I like is alu rough. The problem is it lasts about 3 or 4 hrs before the poly snaps the gut.
The benefits are, serve, its just better than anything, spin, swerve, pace etc etc. The problems are that I cant fully commit to my groundstrokes, as it is too powerful and I sometimes find myelf in between in no mans land. This is the only hybrid I would truly recommend tho (gut/multi mains/poly cross), a hybrid that makes a noticable difference. Other hybids there is very little in it.
Also this only works well in decent weather, when its cold and wet etc the gut feels like an ordinary synthetic.

Full poly is really nice, as Ive stated, "the Luxilon affect" (there's a good article somewhere on these boards about gustavo kuerten) does enable hard hitting groundstrokes to keep the ball in. The other important thing here is grip, These strings added with the advent of a more extreme grip enable even harder hitting and huge amounts of work on the ball. As my grips on both sides are full western I can do this with gut but when you try a good poly you will feel the difference.

For me then it was a balance of the serve (my biggest weapon) = gut, versus groundstrokes (consistency and control) = poly.

My serves are not quite the same with poly as they are with gut on a warm day in summer, but they are not far off. However my groundstrokes and confidence outways this when I have poly in.

As for volleying and touch shots, and it maybe strange but I prefer the deader feel of poly. In fact I find flex in the hoop a big factor here.

So my new string is a poly, its an all round poly. It has really good elasticity and power, its kinda soft and greasy so it has a little more feel whilst still being a fairly dead string. As most polys it has real good grip and spin. All this combined with my racket and the lower tensions I use, where contrary to many beliefs i get more control and grip. It lasts longer than gut/poly and alu (my favourite control string) and its fairly easy on the arm for a poly.
It ticks many of the boxes I want in a string as does my racket.
Its called Polystar Energy and the details are in my sig below :)

You really hit the spot. It gives the best of both worlds more than any other poly I have tried.

SlvrDragon50
01-23-2010, 09:49 PM
Hey 18x20
Also this only works well in decent weather, when its cold and wet etc the gut feels like an ordinary synthetic.


Would you say the Florida humidity will pretty much ruin the effect of a good multi?

BigT
01-27-2010, 07:22 PM
To the OP, the main benefit of poly is control. Durability is a side benefit that is abused because people end up using the poly long after it has died, which causes TE.

jazar
01-28-2010, 12:51 AM
Assume it's full beds for both, all things being equal (same price, same time strung, same tension, same gauge, same racquet, etc.)


i wouldnt string poly up at same tension as a syn gut, multi or natural gut. i string poly at 58/60, syn gut at 60/62, multi at 61/63 and natural gut at 62/64.

when i first started using full poly it was for durability reasons, as i broke full syn gut in about 10 hours and hybrids in not much longer. but now i would say the main reason i use poly is for the control. with poly i can really swing out at the ball and i also enjoy its feel.

Arvid
01-28-2010, 04:43 AM
Glad to help. Just in case K-Gut Pro 17 is too firm for you, even though it is a multifilament, I would also recommend K-Gut (non-Pro) 17 which is also firm but only slightly softer and with good ball cupping. And as Meaghan pointed out, lower tensions are better – especially in your 18 X 20. If possible for both strings, ask your stringer to not pre-stretch.

At the same time, if you never break strings, consider trying natural gut in 17 gauge. Everybody should try natural gut at least once, to know the ultimate strings that most other strings are compared against. It will last much longer, and will play great throughout, probably never losing its feel. So you probably won't need to cut them out. Much more economical in the long run. However, you can't store it in a parked car, or play when it is raining or the courts are wet.
I dont have that much experiense with strings unfortunately, but i have tryed a few strings at least and the differense to my current setup is just huge. Previously i have played some full polys but then i decided to go for a gut main poly cross setup to try. So in the mains a have a string that i havent seen for sale anywhere exept in the shop where i got my racket strung, its Babolat discovery a 1,40 Babolat gut string strung at 25 kilo, in the crosses i have luxilon big banger alu 1,25 stung at 23 kilo. The racket a twintube radical with caps......ok here it goes.....the feel power and control i get from this machine is just insane!! If you have never tryed gut you need to do it ok. So far nothing negative to report, i have played wit this setup just under 10 hours i guess, will see how long it lasts(that might be the downside) The other day i switched racket with my friend for him to feel the natural gut, he had a pro drive with some kind of poly.....it was just terrible, feel like a board and funny enough it didnt even feel as if i produced any more spin with that racket. If this setup will last pretty good i think im gone stick to it, good thing is it feels great and hasnt really changed that much in these hours of play.....

aggfan
01-29-2010, 01:50 AM
Glad to help. Just in case K-Gut Pro 17 is too firm for you, even though it is a multifilament, I would also recommend K-Gut (non-Pro) 17 which is also firm but only slightly softer and with good ball cupping. And as Meaghan pointed out, lower tensions are better – especially in your 18 X 20. If possible for both strings, ask your stringer to not pre-stretch.

At the same time, if you never break strings, consider trying natural gut in 17 gauge. Everybody should try natural gut at least once, to know the ultimate strings that most other strings are compared against. It will last much longer, and will play great throughout, probably never losing its feel. So you probably won't need to cut them out. Much more economical in the long run. However, you can't store it in a parked car, or play when it is raining or the courts are wet.

Bad Dog, I complete agree with u on the benifits of Kgut 17. I myself luv the string and is my complete favouraite. Can u suggest any string that plays similar to kgut17 (a little cheaper as well) or maybe any natural gut that's not expensive.

Bad Dog
01-29-2010, 10:02 AM
Bad Dog, I complete agree with u on the benifits of Kgut 17. I myself luv the string and is my complete favouraite. Can u suggest any string that plays similar to kgut17 (a little cheaper as well) or maybe any natural gut that's not expensive.



Thank you; I feel your pain. Wilson K-Gut 17 is such an amazing-feeling string at low-mid tension. Like you, I'm hunting for something almost as good, at the right price. So far, nothing else comes close.

I've already tried:

Prince Premier LT
WeissCannon Explosiv
Laserfibre Supernatural Gut Pro Stock
Wilson NXT; NX Tour
IsoSpeed Professional Classic
– and several others.


None of the above were adequate substitutes for K-Gut 17.

I will be trying a couple more multifilaments soon, and will post my results in the next few weeks. That way, the results will be available before the start of tennis season in the northern hemisphere. I'm going through the hard work of dealing with so many strings – so you don’t have to. :) Just learn from my mistakes.

aggfan
01-29-2010, 02:32 PM
Thank you; I feel your pain. Wilson K-Gut 17 is such an amazing-feeling string at low-mid tension. Like you, I'm hunting for something almost as good, at the right price. So far, nothing else comes close.

I've already tried:

Prince Premier LT
WeissCannon Explosiv
Laserfibre Supernatural Gut Pro Stock
Wilson NXT; NX Tour
IsoSpeed Professional Classic
– and several others.


None of the above were adequate substitutes for K-Gut 17.

I will be trying a couple more multifilaments soon, and will post my results in the next few weeks. That way, the results will be available before the start of tennis season in the northern hemisphere. I'm going through the hard work of dealing with so many strings – so you don’t have to. :) Just learn from my mistakes.

Thanks Bud, That's what makes this forum so great tennis players helping out each other. Do keep me posted on the resutls, I also wanted to settle down before the season starts. Here are the few i tired but nothing comes close to Kgut17:

Tech X-1: I feel it has too much pop and doesn't have the grippin of the ball as Kgut does

Tech Nrg2: Similar to X-1 , maybe a littel less power. But then it still lacks the control Kgut gives me.

Head Rip control: was thinking this might be the string. But too low powered for me, felt really dead even more than a poly.

The next one on my list is: Klip Venom 17. I've heard it has gud ball gripping have you tried it.

Bad Dog
01-30-2010, 04:30 PM
Thanks Bud, That's what makes this forum so great tennis players helping out each other. Do keep me posted on the resutls, I also wanted to settle down before the season starts. Here are the few i tired but nothing comes close to Kgut17:

Tech X-1: I feel it has too much pop and doesn't have the grippin of the ball as Kgut does

Tech Nrg2: Similar to X-1 , maybe a littel less power. But then it still lacks the control Kgut gives me.

Head Rip control: was thinking this might be the string. But too low powered for me, felt really dead even more than a poly.

The next one on my list is: Klip Venom 17. I've heard it has gud ball gripping have you tried it.



Aggfan – You are absolutely right – Wilson’s K-Gut has much greater grip and control than Tecnifibre X-1 Biphase and NRG2. You are also right that Head Rip Control feels dead. [I've used these strings as well, but just forgot to list them above.]

To answer your question -- I haven’t tried Klip Venom yet, and I’m looking forward to your review. I tried the search function to find out more on Venom, but there was not a lot of detail available. So after you finish testing, please consider starting a new thread on Venom, which would be very helpful to all of us. :) You have been right on target: what matters is how other strings measure up to K Gut (which appears to be the ultimate multifilament benchmark, so far).

Since you mentioned Klip, I have tried Excellerator – it was ok, but not quite good enough to be a substitute for K-Gut.

tennis005
01-30-2010, 04:57 PM
What's a copoly?

Travis Fong
01-30-2010, 05:17 PM
What's a copoly?

I was wondering the same thing. I just bought a reel of a Co-Poly I tried, and loved mind you. But I've always been curious as to what defines a co-poly as a co poly.

Anyone wanna explain?

tennis005
01-30-2010, 05:26 PM
Does it give the same controlled, low power of a poly but with more feel?