PDA

View Full Version : how often to restring gut?


EKnee08
01-28-2010, 10:30 AM
Hi All:
Back towards the end of September, I purchased two Youtek Rad MPs with Tonic 16 (playability version) strung at 56. I played probably 3-4 hours a week and used both sticks equally. I eventually added 3 grams of lead tape at 3 and 9 oclock and another 3 grams at the top of the handle for added stability. I had not broken the strings. However, over the weekend (after playing with the original string sets for almost 4 months) I had both sticks restrung with Tonic at 55 lbs to prepare for a league championship match.
I found a huge difference in the feel and liveliness of the restrung frames.

So, what would you recommend as the optimum amount of time to play with string, assuming I do not pop the strings?

Thanks

JT_2eighty
01-28-2010, 10:36 AM
Out of all the string types out there, gut will lose the least amount of tension comparatively. That said, it still will lose tension a lil as that is just physics.

Many people play gut until it breaks due to the fact that 1) it holds tension better than anything else and 2) cost.

If you can afford to restring it before it breaks, then just play it by ear and once the playability is not at your preference, go for it. I usually snap a full gut job after 12-18 hours of play so I just wait for them to break. You may also just want to start your initial job a few pounds higher, as gut typically drops about 5-7 pounds and then settles in for a while, so you can take that into account too.

Standupnfall
01-28-2010, 10:42 AM
Unless the stringing was done by the same person on the same properly calibrated machine in the same manner you cannot guarantee the tension was the same to begin with.
This could have something to do with your difference

Sublime
01-28-2010, 02:46 PM
The $100 cost to get two rackets strung that didn't have broken strings may also be effecting your perception of the difference.

Confusedaboutgear
01-28-2010, 06:55 PM
well depends klip has a 16$ half set. But if your going for babolat its a question of how often do you feel like spending 50$?

kiteboard
01-28-2010, 10:38 PM
Global gut, $10/set, takes 18 days to arrive, 10% breakage during stringing. Why is gut better at holding tension than any synthetic? (Closest out there is msv hex, which drops 11% vs 7% overnight.) Intestines are tougher, twisted together, like newspaper is a weapon when rolled and twisted.

Lambsscroll
01-29-2010, 05:25 AM
Whats nice about gut is it doesn't lose its elasticity like synthetic strings. So the trick is to find a tension where after the strings settle your pleased with settled tension.

rasajadad
01-29-2010, 06:10 AM
Even though gut is said to be able to hold tension the best, there is a limit to gut's elasticity. As a player who does not break strings I cut gut out after three months. That would be with me playing 6 times a week rotating four racquets.

JT_2eighty
01-29-2010, 09:45 AM
Even though gut is said to be able to hold tension the best, there is a limit to gut's elasticity. As a player who does not break strings I cut gut out after three months. That would be with me playing 6 times a week rotating four racquets.

That's not exactly true.

1) I would imagine the reason you are cutting out your strings is due to the greater loss of tension in your synthetic affecting your overall stringbed stiffness (SBS).

2) Gut has been tested in the lab enough to assert the fact it does not lose any elasticity. BUT it is losing TENSION over time. There is a big difference between these two terms and their effects on your SBS. Bottom line is that only polyester strings lose ELASTICITY over time (i.e. the "dead" feeling), while all strings lose TENSION over time, including gut just that gut loses it the least compared to synthetics, multis, etc.

So, when people say their gut, multi or synthetic has "gone dead" it really has not lost any Elasticity, but it HAS lost enough Tension to make it feel so dramatically different and then yes, time to cut them out if they haven't already broken. Fresh strings are always going to feel better than even a week or two old strings because of tension loss, not elasticity loss.

These are facts, check out the book Technical Tennis, it's all there with scientific data. Good stuff.

Racer41c
01-29-2010, 10:18 AM
Hi All:
Back towards the end of September, I purchased two Youtek Rad MPs with Tonic 16 (playability version) strung at 56. I played probably 3-4 hours a week and used both sticks equally. I eventually added 3 grams of lead tape at 3 and 9 oclock and another 3 grams at the top of the handle for added stability. I had not broken the strings. However, over the weekend (after playing with the original string sets for almost 4 months) I had both sticks restrung with Tonic at 55 lbs to prepare for a league championship match.
I found a huge difference in the feel and liveliness of the restrung frames.

So, what would you recommend as the optimum amount of time to play with string, assuming I do not pop the strings?

Thanks

Really interesting. I strung a racquet at the beginning of October with the same Tonic 16 but at a higher tension, 62. I must have over 100 hours of hitting balls (mostly doubles but also drills). After the settle in period of about 5 hours, the string bed hasn't changed at all that I can tell. I'm starting to get a small amount of movement and fraying, but it's playing great.

So my guess is you actually like the tension at 56 when you play. If your looking for longevity, maybe stringing at 58 would be the ticket.

Bad Dog
01-29-2010, 10:38 AM
Bottom line is that only polyester strings lose ELASTICITY over time (i.e. the "dead" feeling), while all strings lose TENSION over time, including gut just that gut loses it the least compared to synthetics, multis, etc.

So, when people say their gut, multi or synthetic has "gone dead" it really has not lost any Elasticity, but it HAS lost enough Tension to make it feel so dramatically different and then yes, time to cut them out if they haven't already broken. Fresh strings are always going to feel better than even a week or two old strings because of tension loss, not elasticity loss.


In terms of multifilaments, many of us have had experiences that are the exact opposite of yours. Over time, it is possible that multifilaments may actually GAIN tension, as they LOSE elasticity. For example, take a look at this separate discussion:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=306107

On the other hand, it is possible that multifilaments may lose tension if they are left in the car on hot days, etc. It is also easy to damage the elasticity of multifilaments if they are prestretched.

rasajadad
01-29-2010, 10:46 AM
That's not exactly true.

1) I would imagine the reason you are cutting out your strings is due to the greater loss of tension in your synthetic affecting your overall stringbed stiffness (SBS).

2) Gut has been tested in the lab enough to assert the fact it does not lose any elasticity. BUT it is losing TENSION over time. There is a big difference between these two terms and their effects on your SBS. Bottom line is that only polyester strings lose ELASTICITY over time (i.e. the "dead" feeling), while all strings lose TENSION over time, including gut just that gut loses it the least compared to synthetics, multis, etc.

So, when people say their gut, multi or synthetic has "gone dead" it really has not lost any Elasticity, but it HAS lost enough Tension to make it feel so dramatically different and then yes, time to cut them out if they haven't already broken. Fresh strings are always going to feel better than even a week or two old strings because of tension loss, not elasticity loss.

These are facts, check out the book Technical Tennis, it's all there with scientific data. Good stuff.

I'm not sure of the basis of Technical Tennis scientific studies and I'd like to see them. However, while I believe gut tension loss over time is negligible, I'd have to be convinced about the elasticity not changing over time. Although I use a hybrid now, I have over 10 years recent personal experience with straight gut set-ups not to mention the experience of the people I string for.

I will try and find the book though.

jim e
01-29-2010, 11:05 AM
From the gss symposium on nat. gut.

"Elongation, natural gut will stretch further allowing the string to absorb more energy.
Elasticity, what stretches must recover and the recovery rate of natural gut is unmatched by any synthetic. Natural gut is a product of nature, not man, and by design it will seek its origional state after its stretched and upon release. Polyester is the exact opposite as it does not recover to its origional state.
Tension maintenance, nat. gut's recovery rate is what sets it apart from all other strings. It will stretch and recover at a phenomenal rate and retain a higher % of the origional strung tension than any other string on the market.Basically its the strings elongation, elasticity, and tension maintenance that makes natural gut special."

This is what makes nat. gut keep its great playability until it breaks.Granted anyone can cut it out at any time, but the string plays well for a great amount of time. If I cut mine out it is just about to break anyways, otherwise I keep it in until it does break.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

dgoran
01-29-2010, 06:27 PM
Are you in a humid area by any chance as florida is for example?
all of the above statements are true BUT if humidity gets to your nat gut string job it will become trampoline and render it useless. talking from personal experience...i live in florida...

masterxfob
01-29-2010, 06:54 PM
if you don't break 16g nat gut in 3+ months, maybe try a thinner gauge nat gut?

JavierLW
01-29-2010, 07:49 PM
Are you in a humid area by any chance as florida is for example?
all of the above statements are true BUT if humidity gets to your nat gut string job it will become trampoline and render it useless. talking from personal experience...i live in florida...

I used to always use Wilson NG at 60# and I live in the mid_west and this was my experience as well.

It last about 3 months, even way less thru August which is our more humid month.

If for some reason I left it out in the cold in the winter, it didnt seem to respond well to that either.

It seemed like the fact that it doesnt really lose much resiliency makes it unique though.

With a multi, whether you want to believe it's lost tension or not, it just seems to go dead after awhile if it doesnt break.

With gut, it seemed like it always pocketed the ball really well but if it loses a ton of tension, you get this weird experience where the ball doesnt want to leave the string bed and it goes off in some unknown strange direction or it produces some weird spin. (at least that was my experience with it)

It seemed like some of the less quality guts like Titan did that much sooner then VS or Wilson.

I had one set of Wilson last 5 months thru the winter, that's my record so far for playability. (it might of lasted longer but it broke on it's own one day just by sitting around)

kiteboard
01-29-2010, 08:50 PM
Whats nice about gut is it doesn't lose its elasticity like synthetic strings. So the trick is to find a tension where after the strings settle your pleased with settled tension.

Exactly. If you play best at 56lbs, and don't break strings, expect 7% loss overnight, and another 10 % after a couple of hours-15 depending on how heavy the shots/stick. So it would be smart to string accordingly, starting high and settling in lower to the tension you like, unless you are rich and can afford to cut it out immed., in which case you would string at 7% above, and that would be about 60 lbs. Non rich: 63-66lbs.

kiteboard
01-29-2010, 08:52 PM
I used to always use Wilson NG at 60# and I live in the mid_west and this was my experience as well.


It seemed like some of the less quality guts like Titan did that much sooner then VS or Wilson.

I had one set of Wilson last 5 months thru the winter, that's my record so far for playability. (it might of lasted longer but it broke on it's own one day just by sitting around)

So how do you like global gut at $10 set? I'm hybriding that with alu power.

JavierLW
01-29-2010, 09:11 PM
So how do you like global gut at $10 set? I'm hybriding that with alu power.

I like it for the price.

Between myself and with friends Ive seen almost 10 different combos get strung and no premature breakage, but I know someone who is a great stringer.

I never tryed it in a full job though. I suspect it's probably not as good as Wilson NG was, but it's a 4th the price....