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VGP
01-28-2010, 02:39 PM
Thought I'd start a thread on another Wilson midsize frame that's been a personal favorite since August of '09.

I picked one up for $10 at a local used sporting goods store. From the first hit I was hooked. Even with the old thick gauge nylon strings that were in the frame.

Some details on this particular model (info taken from a recent e-bay auction listing):

This model was introduced in 1984 at $89 retail price.

Tennis Racquet Specification Table
Brand:1984 Wilson Graphite Force Midsize 85 sq in
Short Description: Provides a solid blend of stiffness and power, plus fine mobility and balance.
Head Size: 85 in2 / 548 cm2
Length: 27 in / 686 mm
Strung Weight:12.8 oz / 362 g
Strung Balance: 5 pts HL / 328 mm
Composition: Graphite / Fiberglass Composite
Beam Width: 20 mm Straight Beam
Power Level: Low
Stiffness: Medium Flex
Swing Type: Fast
String Pattern: 16 mains / 19 crosses
Grip Type: Leather
String Tension: 65 - 70 lbs / 29 - 32 kg recommended

World tennis Magazine decimal rating system from 1984: playability profile (1 - min / 10 - max)

Stiffness: 8
Stability: 7
Power: 8
Playability: 8

Some pics:

http://i49.tinypic.com/6gklxs.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/2jbqhvo.jpg

I actually like this frame better than the Wilson Pro Staff Midsize. Perhaps it's the extra cross string that adds a touch more control. It could be the thicker beam that makes each hit feel pretty beefy. What I really like is the feel of volleying with the racket. Solid.

There are very few threads on this frame. Old ones in the general 'Racquets' section, which I'll reference....

In this thread (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=215933) MAXply had some nice things to say:

Another thrift store find:
Weighs a ton, looks like an 85sq.in, no PWS and arguably the cleanest cosmetics (i.e none) seen on an 80s Wilson...plain PJ/gold striping reminiscent of the early 80s Head Graphite-whatever ?
Plays pretty flexible going by its composite layup. Went back and checked pricelists of the time; it was a mid/mid-low pricepoint circa 1985 but not so low as to be found at a variety store.
(This is critiqued against the stick I've used for nearly 20 years, a POG 90 4-stripe)
Strung at mid-tension, the Graphite Force is flexible yet mildly firm on all shots. Comes off the stringbed with a dull, ping-ey "pfffwuut" as opposed to a sharp "thwack".
Boxier beam than the POG and slightly rounded - as you can see it's slightly curved and not as straight sided as say, classic Head sticks. I've measured it at 20mm - thicker than the POG.
Definitely heavier and whilst it gives a bit of pop, my puny arms prefer something lighter these days. Easy plow through but not as knifey through the shot as the thinner POG. The smaller head makes the racquet hand feel slightly distant from the ball IMO, having played predominantly with 90-size sticks.
White buttcap, code GPS. Shiny black PJ but not as lustrous as the POG 4-stripe. Cheers.

.....and in this thread (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=28172):

I just recently purchased one again. It was my first racket way back when. Unfortunately my friend lost it in highschool.

The racket has a more "lively" feel than the PS85. It does not have the muted feel of the PS85. It plays/feels closer to the Wilson Sting1/2.

Overall, not a bad racket to add to your collection... I did.

I agree with what these posters said.

Thought I'd hype up this frame a little bit. I'd hope that some TTW members that have a penchant for classic midsize frames, perhaps even those that love the Wilson Pro Staff Midsize give this one a go.

I'd love to hear other people's opinions......

VGP
01-28-2010, 02:39 PM
Here's a visual comparison to a blacked-out Wilson BLX90....

http://i47.tinypic.com/mlqfzq.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/2ufenn8.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/11h711e.jpg

No disrespect to the PS85, I'm just liking this one at the moment.

Speaking of the PS85, in lining up the heads, the Wilson Graphite Force seems to have a slightly larger one.....like an 88.

I'd love to have Jack & Coke do his headsize analysis on this frame....

I've collected a few of these (thanks to a couple of TTW members) to make it my current playing frame. I've even been using a nice retro bag......maybe I'll post additional pics.

MAXXply
01-29-2010, 03:11 AM
...Dang you VGP! :wink: Wish I still had my Graphite Force now you've given it your stamp of approval...it's now part of TT member Virginia's collection so it went to a good home.
There was also a member at the time wanting to offload their Forces in the For Sale section IIRC
Glad you really like it; it's still the playing stick of the septugenarian senior at my club...old skool never dies... :)

VGP
01-29-2010, 08:26 AM
Well, I'm not septuagenarian, but I do like the frame a lot. ;)

I've been a long time PS85 user and I like the firmness of that frame. But alas, it's become one of those collector frames. Replacements are costly, even the cost of replacement bumperguards and grommets has gone up. I (along with others) was on a quest to find something similar.

I first saw the Graphite Force at the used sporting goods store and I initially passed on the frame. I was not familiar with the frame at all prior to that day. It looked similar and had a nice weight but I was discouraged by the fact that it didn't have a bumperguard as did most frames of the early 80s. Similarly to Wilson models like the Reflex, Graphite Matrix, early Pro Staffs.

I mulled it over and I decided to go back. I thought if it was still there, I'd purchase it. I'm glad I did. I did a search here on TTW and found the limited, but favorable reviews of the frame.....

I've been using it for about 5 months now. I've tried it side by side with Wilson midsize models PS85, kPS88, Reflex, BLX90 and a Boris Becker BB11 mid.

Next to the PS85, it's become my favorite playing frame. The Wilson Graphite force addresses the "problems" I have with the other frames.

I found the kPS88 a touch too powerful. I felt that I used more topspin to keep the ball from overshooting the baseline. With the Reflex, it was nice but too flexy. I didn't like the polarized weighting and the "feel" of the BLX90. The BB11 mid is just too cushy in the frame and with the open stringbed on a 93" head size.

With the Graphite Force, I can hit out off the ground comfortably like I'm using the PS85, but I gain a touch more control. It has a comfortable flex and a nice feel on impact. It has to be the additional cross string (with even drilling - 16 x 19) that gives the string bed an even response from top to bottom. My favorite shot lately has been the volley. One of my hitting partners has remarked on a couple of occasions how much better my volleys are with this frame.

I always enjoyed serving with the PS85. I actually really enjoy the serve with the kPS88. I am able to put a good amount of work on the ball with that frame. I took a lesson using that one and my teaching pro commented on the spin I was able to generate. With the Graphite Force, I'd have to say that my serves are a little more controllable than the PS85 - again the consistent string bed - but with a little less pop than the PS85 or kPS88.

As much as I'm enjoying the frame, a gripe of mine is being unable to get replacement grommet strips. It is over 25 years old, so I don't expect it to be easy. Since I string my own frames, I've ground out some of the bad grommets and used tubing......but I found that if I cut up the plastic parts to the Dunlop Aerogel 500, I can use them to replace individual grommets.

I'm really hoping some aficionados of the PS85 try this frame out. Especially those that like the Chicago or SV frames. Perhaps the players that like a more flexy "PS85" gravitate toward the Wilson Kramer Staff or the older Pro Kennex Ace series. The Graphite Force might fall under that category......

I've read on here (a poster that knew someone that used to lay the graphite for Prince POGs) that the old graphite fibers used at the time was long and coarse like horse hair. The "newer" graphite is more refined, the fibers are shorter and smoother. I think that difference is what makes these classic frames so special. I assume it's harder to recreate that "old-school" feel with newer materials simply because the base material is different. I'm not saying it's bad, just different.

Well, I've been long-winded in extolling the virtues of yet another classic frame, but I thought after enjoying this frame for some time I'd do a little write-up........also, given the price of what they go for on the used market, it can be quite the value.

pshulam
01-29-2010, 06:03 PM
I'm really hoping some aficionados of the PS85 try this frame out. Especially those that like the Chicago or SV frames. Perhaps the players that like a more flexy "PS85" gravitate toward the Wilson Kramer Staff or the older Pro Kennex Ace series. The Graphite Force might fall under that category......
How does the Graphite Force compare to the Pro Kennex Black Ace or Copper Ace?

Cup8489
01-30-2010, 02:52 PM
i actually did a search myself on this exact frame, it was the first tennis racket i ever played with, about 10 years ago for a summer camp, my uncle gave it to me. Though the grip on my frame is a tad too big (4 5/8), it is still very fun to hit around, and your comparison with the KPS88 is spot on, IMHO. I did not have trouble controlling the KPS's power off the ground, though this could be because the way i swing naturally generates considerable spin.

If you track down some grommets for your Graphite Force, can you possibly point me in the right direction? the grommets in this frame are just a mess, and though i have 6 replaced with nylon tubing, I would much rather find a new set to use..

i was surprised at the weight you listed, my force seems far lighter. I still need to buy a letter scale, and see if it is indeed as light as it feels.

I also found that it was very good for volleys, and that the 20 mm beam gave plenty of control and stability. It volleys, IMHO, about the same as the KPS88, though with greater maneuverability for reaction volleys.

Great thread :)

VGP
01-30-2010, 08:38 PM
How does the Graphite Force compare to the Pro Kennex Black Ace or Copper Ace?

Not sure about the Black Ace, I recall the Copper Ace being akin to the Wilson Graphite Force, it's been a while on that one. I was thinking more like the Silver Ace.....compact head, similar graphite and fiberglass construction. Another PK Ace frame with which I'm familiar is the Pro Kennex Composite Ace. It has a semi-isometric head and what feels like a graphite/fiberglass construction as well. That frame has a nice firm response but the beam is thin.

....your comparison with the KPS88 is spot on, IMHO. I did not have trouble controlling the KPS's power off the ground, though this could be because the way i swing naturally generates considerable spin.

Thanks, I meant that I had to add extra topspin to my strokes to help bring the ball down with the kPS88. I do like the frame and I'm keeping it since it's technically a new frame with readily available replacement parts......speaking of which.....


If you track down some grommets for your Graphite Force, can you possibly point me in the right direction? the grommets in this frame are just a mess, and though i have 6 replaced with nylon tubing, I would much rather find a new set to use..

Like I said, I'm having to tube my frames as well. The first one I bought, the ten dollar one, the grommets were all shot. They were so fragile, each one cracked as I tried to pull off the grommet strips.

At the moment, I'm still at a loss for finding the exact replacement parts.


i was surprised at the weight you listed, my force seems far lighter. I still need to buy a letter scale, and see if it is indeed as light as it feels.

I also found that it was very good for volleys, and that the 20 mm beam gave plenty of control and stability. It volleys, IMHO, about the same as the KPS88, though with greater maneuverability for reaction volleys.

Great thread :)

That's why I thought the BLX90 was going to be a good fit. The frame weighed right (less than the Graphite force, actually), balanced right, etc.....but the weight of the Graphite Force must be evenly distributed and if it is, that's what I like. I'm sure for most people, the kPS88, the k90 and BLX90 are good frames. It's just on the latter two, I just didn't enjoy using frames with what I'm assuming is a polarized weight distribution.......maybe that's why the Graphite Force swings easy in comparison.

FedererClone (he has the Graphite Force too) in another thread said that he found the frame lacking in the manuverability category. I, like you, find the Graphite Force more maneuverable than the kPS88, but it's not overly whippy or headlight. That's a good thing. I'm sure the swingweight is probably "up there" by today's standards, but this frame's got a lot behind it while still maintaining comfort during play. That's why I like it.

pshulam
01-31-2010, 09:44 AM
Not sure about the Black Ace, I recall the Copper Ace being akin to the Wilson Graphite Force, it's been a while on that one. I was thinking more like the Silver Ace.....compact head, similar graphite and fiberglass construction.
Silver Ace is 80% graphite, 20% fiberglass. Copper Ace is 40/60 (graphite/fiberglass).

VGP
01-31-2010, 12:04 PM
I thought the Copper Ace was graphite/fiberglass, too. I didn't know it has more fiberglass. Thanks for that, pshulam.

My memory might be off base. Like I said, it's been a while as I don't own it but hit with one a loooong time ago. Probably thinking that anything non-wood was powerful.

I would say that the Graphite Force is more like the PK Silver Ace and Composite Ace. I own the latter and have used that one recently.

I also have the PK Copper Ace 90. That's a different frame - even from its namesake - it even has a roundish profile (like the Wilson Hammer Spin), so no similar comparisons should be drawn.

Cup8489
01-31-2010, 02:38 PM
thanks for your reply, i managed to come across another Graphite force on the bay, item number 300350378414. you may want to take a look, grip size L4, looks in pretty good shape. I may bid, I may not. would be nice to have a second one :)

VGP
02-01-2010, 09:56 AM
Yeah, I've been watching that listing too.

It's been up for a while and they've come down on the price $10 from the time I've been watching it. It's been up for a few months now. I think the asking price is still a bit high based on the going price for Graphite Forces on e-bay. Although the frame looks pretty nice.

All in all, it's not a bad price for a decent Wilson Midsize frame. But, I've been spoiled getting my first one for $10 and a couple from fellow TTW members that were kind enough to sell me theirs after posting in the 'Wanted' section late last year.

I think I'm good on frames for now. I'll continue watching that listing out of curiosity if anything. See if the seller comes down on price any further.... or see if someone bites.

On a practical note, I got to play some doubles last night. That was a little unexpected as I was just planning on drilling with my regular hitting partner. Sad to say, I hadn't been on court for a couple of months.

We ran into another friend of ours who was there to play with one of his friends. This guy is a former D1 collegiate player and his friend was of a similar level.

I'm glad I held my own being able to hold serve with very few double faults. I returned terribly but served and volleyed well. I could feel the flex of the frame more as these guys hit a heavy ball. I should have switched frames to the one with the fresher stringjob......

So far, it's I'm still enjoying the frame. A little more of a reality check having run into some better players. Even though I don't get to play as often as I like, my love affair with the Wilson Graphite Force continues!

VGP
02-01-2010, 01:00 PM
Just some additional pics. A stock frame with the cover, a close-up of the cover, and my current favorite bag.....

http://i45.tinypic.com/10579lc.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/10pzln5.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/xpzbsh.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/155nxo1.jpg

Cup8489
02-02-2010, 04:31 AM
Yeah, I've been watching that listing too.

It's been up for a while and they've come down on the price $10 from the time I've been watching it. It's been up for a few months now. I think the asking price is still a bit high based on the going price for Graphite Forces on e-bay. Although the frame looks pretty nice.

All in all, it's not a bad price for a decent Wilson Midsize frame. But, I've been spoiled getting my first one for $10 and a couple from fellow TTW members that were kind enough to sell me theirs after posting in the 'Wanted' section late last year.

I think I'm good on frames for now. I'll continue watching that listing out of curiosity if anything. See if the seller comes down on price any further.... or see if someone bites.

On a practical note, I got to play some doubles last night. That was a little unexpected as I was just planning on drilling with my regular hitting partner. Sad to say, I hadn't been on court for a couple of months.

We ran into another friend of ours who was there to play with one of his friends. This guy is a former D1 collegiate player and his friend was of a similar level.

I'm glad I held my own being able to hold serve with very few double faults. I returned terribly but served and volleyed well. I could feel the flex of the frame more as these guys hit a heavy ball. I should have switched frames to the one with the fresher stringjob......

So far, it's I'm still enjoying the frame. A little more of a reality check having run into some better players. Even though I don't get to play as often as I like, my love affair with the Wilson Graphite Force continues!

you said earlier in the thread that you had some crappy nylon string in one of the Graphites..care to mention the specific string?

do you play with bare leather as well? I just put a new leather grip on mine last night, doesn't play good with anything else, IMHO. I'll try to get some pictures of all my wilson mids up soon.

VGP
02-02-2010, 09:04 PM
The first frame I bought still had what appeared to be the original stringjob in it. Mind you, the listed recommended tension of the frame is 65-70 pounds so even after 25+ years, the stringbed was still firm.

I didn't say that the strings were "crappy" I just commented that it looked like the original thicker gauge nylon. A string that was commonly used back in the day. I don't know if it was a solid core synthetic gut with a single wrap or a double wrap. The current equivalent is probably Prince Tournament Nylon 15L. I think a string like Prince Tournament Nylon 15L is a rather unpretentious string. It is what it is. At under $1.50 a set it's durable and firm. I actually bought some to maybe install in the Graphite Forces just for fun.

As for the grip. The first one I bought I played a bit with a single overgrip (Wilson Pro Overgrip Soft) over the leather. That one was the one where the grommets were shot. All cracked and fragile. I cut out the strings and ripped out the grommets one by one. It's currently sitting unstrung without grommets.

The frame pictured is a stock frame. Original strings. You can still see remnants of the "W" stencil. Original leather grip and cover.

The frames that I'm currently using have the leather removed with Head synthetic replacement grips on with black Yonex Supergrap overgrip. The cushy grips aren't my favorite. I intend to put new leather on someday soon. Perhaps the thin TW private label grips.....I normally use frames with leather grips with an overgrip, like my PS85s.

Back to strings, in those frames I put in Gamma Synthetic Gut 16 in gold in one frame, PSGO 16 in white in another. Both strung at 66 pounds reference tension on a lockout machine.

pshulam
03-12-2010, 06:25 PM
I took out a Graphite Force (GF) with original string for a spin today. Compared to a PS85, the GF is heavier by ~0.5oz. Unlike the PS85, the GF did not cause shoulder fatigue after one hour of hitting. The racquet (to my surprise) is quite maneuverable at the net despite its weight. It feels more comfortable, powerful than the PS85. The control and stability are comparable. I was able to direct the ball to the baseline with ease. Serve-returns were smooth. Overall, it's a fun stick for hitting but may not good for extended period of time because of the demand on the shoulder.

VGP
03-13-2010, 02:49 PM
Thanks for your input, pshulam.

Glad to see someone post a fresh opinion on the Graphite Force. I also like that you are able to compare it to the PS85. It's the comfort coupled with solid performance as to why I'm still using the frame.

pshulam, did you recently purchase a Graphite Force? and could you compare to your PK Copper and Silver aces? Since they're part of your frame collection......

I too found the frame enigmatic. Based on the specs, the head-heavier balance compared to the PS85, I didn't expect to enjoy volleying and good service action with the Graphite Force.

pshulam
03-13-2010, 04:26 PM
pshulam, did you recently purchase a Graphite Force? and could you compare to your PK Copper and Silver aces? Since they're part of your frame collection......

VGP,
Yes, I purchased the Graphite Force (GF) last week from the bay. The PK Copper Ace is softer and thinner than the GF. The control is just about the same between them. The Copper Ace edges out the GF in the level of comfort and maneuverability since it's lighter and more flexible. The GF is more stable and has plow through than does the Copper Ace. I do not have a preference as both frames are nice to hit.

VGP
03-15-2010, 05:06 AM
Glad to hear that you like the frame. I do find the stability and plow through of the Graphite Force exceptional. Figured the difference with the PK Copper Ace would be like that.

You say you got it off e-bay last week. Was it the one that has the 4 3/8 grip where the auction photos had a red background? I placed a couple of bids on that one. It looked to be in nice shape even though the photos weren't the best. Should you decide to sell, lemme know..... :)

PBODY99
03-15-2010, 02:21 PM
When the Force came out I thought it was aimed at the Head graphite Edge of the time. I strung for a Jr who father was a only purchased Wilson so he used this frame since he did not like the Sting and his pop wouldn't spring for the Pro Staff.
Enjoy.

VGP
03-15-2010, 02:45 PM
Thanks again PBODY99.

Your knowledge of, now classic (no offense meant), retail knowledge helps a lot. Not to mention your help with my Gamma/Tenex 4000 stringing machine.

IIRC, the suggested retail of the Graphite Force was about $40-$50 less than the PS85 around 1984.

Given the makeup and specs of the Graphite Force, it does seem to be a competitor frame to the Head Graphite Edge.

pshulam
03-15-2010, 07:41 PM
You say you got it off e-bay last week. Was it the one that has the 4 3/8 grip where the auction photos had a red background? I placed a couple of bids on that one. It looked to be in nice shape even though the photos weren't the best. Should you decide to sell, lemme know..... :)
The one I got is 4 5/8. The racket is in very good shape except for one broken grommet at the bottom and a few minor scratches at the top of the hoop.

VGP
03-16-2010, 06:19 AM
Oh, that's the other one. I asked about it. That was the second go-round for the seller. The second auction only had the one pic. I wasn't super interested for me given the grip size.

I saw from the photo that there was a mark above the handle and asked if it was the beginnings of a crack, but the seller said that it was just a small scratch. Also that the head was protected with head guard tape. Makes sense since these were among the beginnings of the composite age where bumperguards weren't yet ubiquitous.

Glad to hear that you seem satisfied with your purchase.

Post some pics....I don't want to feel alone in my love for the G-Force Mid! :)

pshulam
03-16-2010, 05:21 PM
Oh, that's the other one. I asked about it. That was the second go-round for the seller. The second auction only had the one pic. I wasn't super interested for me given the grip size.

I saw from the photo that there was a mark above the handle and asked if it was the beginnings of a crack, but the seller said that it was just a small scratch. Also that the head was protected with head guard tape. Makes sense since these were among the beginnings of the composite age where bumperguards weren't yet ubiquitous.

Glad to hear that you seem satisfied with your purchase.

Post some pics....I don't want to feel alone in my love for the G-Force Mid! :)
The mark was a small scratch.
here is a picture of the racket after head guard and scratch removals and general cleanups:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_5SOm5Plsq50/S6Aud4nxoHI/AAAAAAAABnk/AuR-AxW90kQ/IMG_1715_small.png

VGP
03-17-2010, 05:09 AM
Thanks pshulam..... :)

WORLDWITHINAWORLD
03-25-2010, 08:49 PM
[QUOTE=VGP;4346528]Well, I'm not septuagenarian, but I do like the frame a lot. ;)

I've been a long time PS85 user and I like the firmness of that frame. But alas, it's become one of those collector frames. Replacements are costly, even the cost of replacement bumperguards and grommets has gone up. I (along with others) was on a quest to find something similar.

I first saw the Graphite Force at the used sporting goods store and I initially passed on the frame. I was not familiar with the frame at all prior to that day. It looked similar and had a nice weight but I was discouraged by the fact that it didn't have a bumperguard as did most frames of the early 80s. Similarly to Wilson models like the Reflex, Graphite Matrix, early Pro Staffs.

I mulled it over and I decided to go back. I thought if it was still there, I'd purchase it. I'm glad I did. I did a search here on TTW and found the limited, but favorable reviews of the frame.....

I've been using it for about 5 months now. I've tried it side by side with Wilson midsize models PS85, kPS88, Reflex, BLX90 and a Boris Becker BB11 mid.

Next to the PS85, it's become my favorite playing frame. The Wilson Graphite force addresses the "problems" I have with the other frames.

I found the kPS88 a touch too powerful. I felt that I used more topspin to keep the ball from overshooting the baseline. With the Reflex, it was nice but too flexy. I didn't like the polarized weighting and the "feel" of the BLX90. The BB11 mid is just too cushy in the frame and with the open stringbed on a 93" head size.

With the Graphite Force, I can hit out off the ground comfortably like I'm using the PS85, but I gain a touch more control. It has a comfortable flex and a nice feel on impact. It has to be the additional cross string (with even drilling - 16 x 19) that gives the string bed an even response from top to bottom. My favorite shot lately has been the volley. One of my hitting partners has remarked on a couple of occasions how much better my volleys are with this frame.

I always enjoyed serving with the PS85. I actually really enjoy the serve with the kPS88. I am able to put a good amount of work on the ball with that frame. I took a lesson using that one and my teaching pro commented on the spin I was able to generate. With the Graphite Force, I'd have to say that my serves are a little more controllable than the PS85 - again the consistent string bed - but with a little less pop than the PS85 or kPS88.

As much as I'm enjoying the frame, a gripe of mine is being unable to get replacement grommet strips. It is over 25 years old, so I don't expect it to be easy. Since I string my own frames, I've ground out some of the bad grommets and used tubing......but I found that if I cut up the plastic parts to the Dunlop Aerogel 500, I can use them to replace individual grommets.

I'm really hoping some aficionados of the PS85 try this frame out. Especially those that like the Chicago or SV frames. Perhaps the players that like a more flexy "PS85" gravitate toward the Wilson Kramer Staff or the older Pro Kennex Ace series. The Graphite Force might fall under that category......

I've read on here (a poster that knew someone that used to lay the graphite for Prince POGs) that the old graphite fibers used at the time was long and coarse like horse hair. The "newer" graphite is more refined, the fibers are shorter and smoother. I think that difference is what makes these classic frames so special. I assume it's harder to recreate that "old-school" feel with newer materials simply because the base material is different. I'm not saying it's bad, just different.

Well, I've been long-winded in extolling the virtues of yet another classic frame, but I thought after enjoying this frame for some time I'd do a little write-up........also, given the price of what they go for on the used market, it can be quite the value.[/QUO
If you like the Wilson force that plays beefy and has a 20mm box beam,then you would probably like another old school racket - the Snauwert graphites. I have a Snauwert Fortissimo and it plays heavy, beefy and very old school. It has a 20mm beam.

WORLDWITHINAWORLD
03-25-2010, 08:53 PM
Sorry I messed up on this one. I wanted to reference VGP s post about the force. My comments are about the Snauwert.

pshulam
03-26-2010, 04:42 PM
Please post pictures of the Snauwaert Fortissimo. I heard it plays similar to the PC600.

WORLDWITHINAWORLD
03-29-2010, 03:08 PM
I wish I could send pictures of the Snauwaert Fortissimo. Sorry,I am not on the cutting edge of technology.I use the Yahoo finance site,I use ask.com,and I use talk tennis.thats it. I dont even carry a cell phone. I dont know facebook from spacebook.I will read the info on my digital camera and eventually will send that picture.
Meanwhile I will try to describe my Fortissimo. Mine is about 100 sq. inches. I dont know if there is a smaller, 90 sq. inches. The main strings are as long as a Prince POG. The cross strings are about one half of an inch shorter. A code on the side is 4 345 310 .which ,I guess, stands for grip size, actual weight in grams and swing weight. The cover is interesting because it says Snauwaert tennis instruments ;which,I assume, illustrates their company's attitude toward quality. The made in Belgium frame has a very attractive appearance in a classic manner. Its mostly a glossy black with a deep quality paint job.The top and bottom faces have a gold stripe with one red pin-stripe inside.The Snauwaert name is on the throat in red letters. The top of the head reads graphite fortissimo, also red letters. The frame is 27 in. long and I measure the beam at 20 mm. For reference, I measured my POG at 18 mm. The thickness of the Snauwaert frame is 12 mm. I measured the POG thickness to be 11 mm. There is a big difference in the handle length. The POG is 6.5 inches and the Snauwaert is 8 inches - much better for 2 hand backhands. As far as playtesting, I don't imagine that the fortissimo would play like a PC 600 , which is smaller and probably more headlight. I dont have a PC 600. The closest that I have is a Head graphite pro 90 sq. inch, which is a twin tube. For me the Head plays better than the Fortissimo. That statement is a little unfair toward the Snauwaert because there are better strings in the Head and I tend to prefer the 90 sized rackets over the oversized frames. The Snauwaert just "reeks" of quality, so I intend to re-string it with an arm friendly,quality syn-gut string and play it some more.
So,i will work on that and the pictures.

pshulam
03-29-2010, 06:28 PM
Thanks for the description. I have found a couple of pictures of a Snauwaert frame.

bhathiya9999
03-31-2010, 12:37 AM
I recommend it is very good racket and can play hard tennis

Standupnfall
05-10-2010, 06:25 AM
There are 2 of these in the TW classifieds right now. One is mine in 4 1/2 and P still has his up I believe in 4 5/8

VGP
05-10-2010, 04:26 PM
Awww....

Someone beat me to Standupnfall's G-Force listing....

I hope whoever purchased the frame could post a review. Still trying to drum up interest in this frame. I still think it's great!

Thanks to those who've contributed thus far.

Speaking of G-Force, does anyone remember the old show?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZjegWyumtIU/R01SAIvlxkI/AAAAAAAAFN8/CfysKS9ZVuw/s320/gforce.jpg

VGP
05-10-2010, 04:28 PM
Oh, Standupnfall, do you have an opinion on the frame's playability?

brunboom
05-12-2010, 03:37 PM
well i was intrigued on this frame due to this posting..now i am awaiting the arrival of 2(1 from here,1 from *bay)..on paper this frame is legit, solid vintage graphite,12 plus ounces,20mm straight beam, & for both i paid 65 total..i am by know means in the place to be giving out advice on tennis or tennis equipment but ill post a review after a month or 2 playing..it'll be interesting since my main frames are 4 limited edition head radical tours..big dif. in size, but common denominators such as solid graphite,12 plus ounces,& 20mm straight beam...i doubt ill jump to this as my gamer(deeply in love w. my shh-it brickhouse of frames that i swing now & bc my game is not yet fully dial'd in enough to swing an 85sq in. on the regular..ima love it, & tell every1 i hate it, so VGP & I can gobble em all up & the value doesnt inflate..if ya got em, i prefer 4 1/2 but ill take 3/8, LET ME KNOW...
& best thing about the G-Force is that there probably older than me(born 11/85) haha...2 B CONTINUED

brunboom
05-12-2010, 04:04 PM
this may or may not be kosher for me to ask here in this thread.....
(if not i beg & plead for 4giveness) but any suggestions on strings that'd be kopasetic w/ my frames when they arrive..obviously any string or hybrid works, but any ideas to enhance the G-force & work in unison..my current string is a full bed of HEAD Ultra Tour 16 or 17 but thats bc i feel the string works well w/ the frame...i already generate ALOT of power, crave even more, & fancy mass amounts of spin...i desire launching missiles aka (**singing voice**"bombs over baaaaghdad") all over the court..
thinking maybe:
1) Solinco Tour Bite 17 & Vanquish 16 Hybrid Set
2) Wilson HyperLast Spin 19 Hybrid Set
3) full bed of RPM Blast
4) or the obvious money hungry hybrid of Wilson nat. gut or nxt tour w/ a lux banger of some sort
(in which i do not probably need)

i dont test alot of strings, i find something & stick to it....

struggle
05-13-2010, 07:26 AM
leona 66. make the wires match the stick!

VGP
05-13-2010, 08:59 AM
brun boom - looking forward to your review....

t-buggle - I'm on a quest to find my "minimal expenditure" type of equipment.....I've been stringing with Gamma Synthetic Gut 16, but I'm gonna go even cheaper with Prince Tournament Nylon 15L.....at the same tension of 66 pounds.

Roll of athletic tape to shape the base of the grip: $0.99
3-pack Yonex Supergrap in black: $2.95
Prince Tournament Nylon 15L: $1.49
Grommet sets to cut up for replacements: $4.99
Nylon tubing: $3.50
Tenex 4000 stringing machine: $25 (services done myself)
Wilson Graphite Force: $35

Base total: $73.92

Satisfaction of playing on the cheap and loving it: PRICELESS

brunboom
05-13-2010, 12:32 PM
recieved my 1st g-force in the mail 2day thanks to STANDUPNFALL...shes a beaut, clean lines,vintage, & classic!! whip'd it around the house hitting dust bunnies to see how it felt in my hands...heavy, but ina good way..my L.E. radicals are around the lower end of 12 oz, & the g-force is def. in the upper 12'z...my L.E.'z just start moving automatically when grasped in my hand & these g-forces are going to need some gas to get outa idle when linked to me, in which i dont mind-just gonna have to concentrate on FUNDAMENTALS-BACK TO THE BASICS to unleash fury w/ the g-force...think im going to take this racquet & take a few lessons w/ it...im a noobie w/ heads this small but not afraid...ima powerhouse of a young buck:
(5'11.5 & a swift,agile,light 250...yes its possible) so i can create pace, just gotta dial in...the g-force def. wont be my X-caliber anytime soon bc nothings replacing my main girls (L.E. radicals), but i think the g-force could be a few of my side hose, actually i guess they'd be more like my cougers since they are older than me, so im stocking up....whip it-whip it reeeal hard

p.s. think im going to try out a hybrid of Solinco Tour Bite 17 & Vanquish 16 or full RPM Blast, i want the ball to really-really pocket before it spits out & explodes...not ricka-shay or trampoline

VGP
05-13-2010, 12:59 PM
...actually i guess they'd be more like my cougers since they are older than me...

Thanks for making me feel old BTW.....


Hope you have fun!

VGP
05-13-2010, 01:03 PM
Sounds like you had a good deal with Standupnfall......be sure to leave a positive reference.

FedererClone
06-10-2010, 12:46 AM
So after demo'ing a few frames (head prestige, babolat pure storm, prince EXO3) I was unconvinced any of these newer frames were for me. I was especially disappointed in the EX03 as I have the 4-stripe POG 93 (which I love) and thought it would compare... prestige was the best for me, but at 98sq in, sure, it was a greats serving stick but I just had too much difficulty grinding out winners at the tail end of some long rallys....

Anyhow, I decided to pick up the Graphite Force for a couple of sets today... and it felt very comfortable around the court.

I recall it was less maneuverable than my Reflex many months ago but for some reason I really jived with it today. Pop on the serve was very responsive, very predictable and solid on the groundies and very solid at the net.

I think the key to this graphite frame is to let it do the work and play within yourself (easier said than done of course!) and let the weight of the frame do its stuff. Its even 16/19 stringbed does allow for very predictable results (as is the 16/19 Reflex but in a different way owing to the thinner beam) and it even felt solid on heavy FH topspin strokes returning high and deep balls... keeping that smooth stroke and feeling the frame go through the ball was pretty awesome today.

It may be a heft stick but the balance of the Graphite Force is really something to admire. None of the newer frames I tested compared to this 85sq/in frame, and IMHO it is the older graphite construction in this - and my other 85 sticks - that really does create an unique feel on the court.

Anyhow, just my 0.02!

pshulam
06-10-2010, 04:23 AM
It may be a heft stick but the balance of the Graphite Force is really something to admire. None of the newer frames I tested compared to this 85sq/in frame, and IMHO it is the older graphite construction in this - and my other 85 sticks - that really does create an unique feel on the court.
I'm glad that you like the GF. The head size, I think, is about 88 sq. in.

FedererClone
06-10-2010, 07:26 AM
I'm glad that you like the GF. The head size, I think, is about 88 sq. in.

Thanks Pshulam.... Yes she does feel a tad bigger than some of my other "85s" ... BTW are you familiar with the Sting SC midsize? It also actually feels bigger than 85... more like a 90 size head. A little off topic but here are some pics. She also hits very well, the low ceramic addition to the stick making for some nice feel on the ball... maybe the lack of Sting stabilization bar adds to its unique feel??

http://gallery.me.com/fastlens#100351

pshulam
06-10-2010, 11:14 AM
I am not familiar with the Sting SC? Nice pictures - thanks.

vic9
06-10-2010, 09:04 PM
Thanks Pshulam.... Yes she does feel a tad bigger than some of my other "85s" ... BTW are you familiar with the Sting SC midsize? It also actually feels bigger than 85... more like a 90 size head. A little off topic but here are some pics. She also hits very well, the low ceramic addition to the stick making for some nice feel on the ball... maybe the lack of Sting stabilization bar adds to its unique feel??

http://gallery.me.com/fastlens#100351

Hey nice SC. I didn't know they came without the bar. I think it's the ceramic that makes it feel so nice coz I have a similar reaction using my bronze SC with a bar.. nicer feel compared to the 100% graphite, which is still very good. That's how I ended up on this thread. I was searching for more frames with ceramic.

Force is a nice frame, that I'd say is better suited for flat hitters because of the thick beam. I found it sluggish at the net, and can strain the arm when doing too many fast loopy shots. It sure plows throught the ball. The thinner beam Stings were the more versatile, all court racquets so I ended up letting go the GFs.

FedererClone
06-12-2010, 12:49 AM
Hey nice SC. I didn't know they came without the bar. I think it's the ceramic that makes it feel so nice coz I have a similar reaction using my bronze SC with a bar.. nicer feel compared to the 100% graphite, which is still very good. That's how I ended up on this thread. I was searching for more frames with ceramic.

Force is a nice frame, that I'd say is better suited for flat hitters because of the thick beam. I found it sluggish at the net, and can strain the arm when doing too many fast loopy shots. It sure plows throught the ball. The thinner beam Stings were the more versatile, all court racquets so I ended up letting go the GFs.

...absolutely man. I actually went out today with the Sting SC and it felt more comfortable. the force is definitely the "clumsier" of the two (for lack of a better word). it is a tad larger than 85sq/in; i concur with pshulam that this is an 88sq/in head.

very even response on this frame. you catch the ball high on the head it still delivers with surprising accuracy, especially on serve. stringbed feels even and clean on impact. i suffer when i get too "whippy" on my forehands, something I can get away with on my Reflex/Sting SC and other thinner beams... but the Force is definitely with me on the OHBH as I can crush the ball with the weight of the frame.

don't know if it's me but the 16/19 pattern seems to serve me well... the prestige i demo'd was a 98in/head with a 16/19 config and it somehow felt familiar.... ? would that equate over different head size?

vic9 I have a couple of other ceramic frames. one is a yamaha 90 with adjustable slide on weights for the head (kinda retro cool) and another wilson graphite/ceramic 85 frame with blue stripes on white frame... this one somehow doesn't jive with me. It felt cheaper, maybe too much ceramic in it? not sure what the amount actually was in these frames... neither of them hit as well as the sting... I have not seen any other Sting SCs out there but am hoping to nab another one!

FedererClone
06-12-2010, 12:53 AM
vic9 here's the Yamaha ceramic frame:

http://bit.ly/9jDUQj

Virginia
06-12-2010, 01:40 AM
Very artistic display you have there! I love the black setting. :)

Uncle Tony
07-20-2010, 03:30 AM
Tiny, Mark, Jason, Princess and Kiop!

..and the Conway tapes.

schu47
07-20-2010, 12:26 PM
Great thread. I love the Wilson graphite mids from the 80s and have quite a few different ones. I had a Force at one point but found it to be too cumbersome and stiff for me.

Here is the SC2000 and another similar one called the Tour Select SC. They are clearly variations of the Sting, which was my favorite racquet for many years. Note the distinctive bar on the throat, as well as the graphics, identical to the Sting except for the colors.

I've found both the SC2000 and Tour Select SC to be lighter and flexier than the Sting, very nice to hit but with a little less pop. I've had a few SC2000s, but never seen any other Tour Select SCs. Anyone else have one and know anything about its history?


http://lh6.ggpht.com/_R75QH658YRs/TEYDoCFHq3I/AAAAAAAAgLE/08bVM8AaslU/s800/P1020657.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_R75QH658YRs/TEYDoyfC4aI/AAAAAAAAgLI/0JAa6-ej0oY/s800/P1020654.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_R75QH658YRs/TEYDptoQXpI/AAAAAAAAgLQ/7Wq9xsJjnUw/s800/P1020656.JPG

Virginia
07-20-2010, 04:44 PM
Great photos, schu47 - I always love your photos! :)

schu47
07-21-2010, 10:52 PM
Great photos, schu47 - I always love your photos! :)

I think we're part of a mutual admiration society. I've long admired your collection and the pictures you've posted on the 80s-tennis website.

VGP
07-28-2010, 11:16 AM
Great thread. I love the Wilson graphite mids from the 80s and have quite a few different ones. I had a Force at one point but found it to be too cumbersome and stiff for me.

Great pics schu47.

Seeing that you really like your SC2000, Tour Select SC, and the Sting, I can totally see how you would feel that the Graphite force is cumbersome and stiff.

For me, the Graphite Force is solid and crisp.

I love the variety of the Wilson mids. The shapes were nearly the same, but the things that were changed were the layup and materials, and the drill patterns for the strings.

To some people, they must think that they all look the same, but we know better don't we..... :)

Roadway
10-26-2010, 09:34 PM
Is it crisp like Prostaff original or just a lillte mushy? I think the fiberglass makes it a liitle soft and I prefer the soft feel.
Does it play similar to Graphite Edge, which i've already had one? If it does, i'd better not purchase one from a fellow here in order to save money. :)

Roadway
10-26-2010, 09:46 PM
I love the variety of the Wilson mids. The shapes were nearly the same, but the things that were changed were the layup and materials, and the drill patterns for the strings.



I love Wilson mids too, from early Jack Kramer, Aggressor and Sting to lately Chinese made prostaff 6.0 and KPS88. i enjoyed them all. Each model had its unique feel.

VGP
10-27-2010, 03:55 AM
Is it crisp like Prostaff original or just a lillte mushy? I think the fiberglass makes it a liitle soft and I prefer the soft feel.
Does it play similar to Graphite Edge, which i've already had one? If it does, i'd better not purchase one from a fellow here in order to save money. :)

It depends to which PS85 you refer. I think the GFM (Graphite Force Midsize or G-Force Mid) lies somewhere between a Taiwanese PS85 and a Chinese PS85. Very much like a SV PS85. Solid. The fiberglass seems to even out the feel. Similar to the use of kevlar in the PS85s. I'm sure the GFM doesn't have the braided construction. I know that it contradicts the term "crisp" but it's not as flexible as say a Rossignol F200 or a Pro Kennex Copper Ace 90 (those I have). I've never hit with a Head Graphite Edge so I can't compare the two. So I'd say it's solid, crisp, not harsh. I think the thicker beam causes it to flex differently than a Wilson Sting or Pro Staff.

If you can pick up the GFM for a decent price (how much is he asking?) maybe you'd be inclined to give it a whirl.....

I love Wilson mids too, from early Jack Kramer, Aggressor and Sting to lately Chinese made prostaff 6.0 and KPS88. i enjoyed them all. Each model had its unique feel.

I've never hit with the Jack Kramer Staff. I'm sure the braided graphite and fiberglass mix would feel good. It's just that one, like the SV PS85 is pricey on the used market. Haven't been lucky enough to find one cheap yet. I've also never hit with the Aggressor. I get the impression it's like the GFM but with the PWS added.

As for the newer frames, late Chinese PS85 and kPS88, I like them but I don't love them.

struggle
10-27-2010, 10:15 AM
I switched from the PK Silver ace to the Aggressor in the mid 80's.
The Aggressor had a bit more heft and abit more muted/softer feel
than the silver ace, as i recall. I had always thought the GF was softer
than the aggressor, but can't really attest to that.

the aggressor was a real nice frame, i never did like the PS85
and they were SV's at the time. too clubby for me, as i recall.
several friends and teammates did take to the PS85 though, some had moved over from the Ultra 2.

Roadway
11-03-2010, 11:16 PM
It depends to which PS85 you refer. I think the GFM (Graphite Force Midsize or G-Force Mid) lies somewhere between a Taiwanese PS85 and a Chinese PS85. Very much like a SV PS85. Solid. The fiberglass seems to even out the feel. Similar to the use of kevlar in the PS85s. I'm sure the GFM doesn't have the braided construction. I know that it contradicts the term "crisp" but it's not as flexible as say a Rossignol F200 or a Pro Kennex Copper Ace 90 (those I have). I've never hit with a Head Graphite Edge so I can't compare the two. So I'd say it's solid, crisp, not harsh. I think the thicker beam causes it to flex differently than a Wilson Sting or Pro Staff.

If you can pick up the GFM for a decent price (how much is he asking?) maybe you'd be inclined to give it a whirl.....



I've never hit with the Jack Kramer Staff. I'm sure the braided graphite and fiberglass mix would feel good. It's just that one, like the SV PS85 is pricey on the used market. Haven't been lucky enough to find one cheap yet. I've also never hit with the Aggressor. I get the impression it's like the GFM but with the PWS added.

As for the newer frames, late Chinese PS85 and kPS88, I like them but I don't love them.


Having gone out for a few days, I am sorry for replying late. As for the Graphite Force, the seller asked for 45 bucks. I don't think it worths that much for it didn't look new. So I bought another Graphite Edge TXE, which it is pretty new for 60 bucks.

By the way, I know you are an expert in Wilson mids. Here is a strange PS85 which i consider a fake. Can you help me?

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=355469

Roadway
11-03-2010, 11:18 PM
I switched from the PK Silver ace to the Aggressor in the mid 80's.
The Aggressor had a bit more heft and abit more muted/softer feel
than the silver ace, as i recall. I had always thought the GF was softer
than the aggressor, but can't really attest to that.

the aggressor was a real nice frame, i never did like the PS85
and they were SV's at the time. too clubby for me, as i recall.
several friends and teammates did take to the PS85 though, some had moved over from the Ultra 2.

I like the soft feel of aggressor too. It is not too powerful and has lots of control.

VGP
11-04-2010, 12:33 PM
Roadway - I'm not really an expert on Wilson mids. I'm merely an enthusiast. $45 is a little high for the GFM, but definitely not bad. But seeing that the frame was an early graphite made without a bumperguard, the top of the frame can take a beating.

I'd love to get my hands on an Aggressor. I just don't wanna pay too much for one.

I've looked at your thread regarding your fake PS85. It does look like one of those frames that doesn't look or feel right. It could be one of those frames that a poster mentioned was manufactured at the factory, but was off spec and should have been discarded but somehow escaped being destroyed.

Although, the decal process is one of the last steps in manufacture. I find it odd that the drill holes are so far off. I think that part of manufacturing happens prior to painting.

There has been some speculation on whether or not there are fake PS85s. Over the years it seems unlikely as the frame to fake would be the SV PS85. I guess the more recent Chinese made PS85s wouldn't escape the counterfeit market just like the n90s, k90s, and kPS88s.

Roadway
11-08-2010, 06:38 AM
Roadway - I'm not really an expert on Wilson mids. I'm merely an enthusiast. $45 is a little high for the GFM, but definitely not bad. But seeing that the frame was an early graphite made without a bumperguard, the top of the frame can take a beating.

I'd love to get my hands on an Aggressor. I just don't wanna pay too much for one.

I've looked at your thread regarding your fake PS85. It does look like one of those frames that doesn't look or feel right. It could be one of those frames that a poster mentioned was manufactured at the factory, but was off spec and should have been discarded but somehow escaped being destroyed.

Although, the decal process is one of the last steps in manufacture. I find it odd that the drill holes are so far off. I think that part of manufacturing happens prior to painting.

There has been some speculation on whether or not there are fake PS85s. Over the years it seems unlikely as the frame to fake would be the SV PS85. I guess the more recent Chinese made PS85s wouldn't escape the counterfeit market just like the n90s, k90s, and kPS88s.

Thanks for so much information, VGP.
Yeaterday, i strung that PS85 at high tension (60lbs) with a poly and it appeared to be less vibrating. Perhaps the loose and springy string bed caused the racquet to resonate with it. When the racquet was strung high, this resonance diminished, so i felt less vibration. Regardless of its authenticity, i begin to like it for its agreeable performance in high tension.

I'm also enthusiastic in mids. I've stocked quite a few for the next 20 or 30 years playing.:)

VGP
11-08-2010, 07:25 AM
You're welcome.

I wonder if you can foam inject your "fake" PS85. Maybe if you seal up the grommet holes except for the uppermost ones and shoot some foam up from the handle end. Clear the grommet holes again and replace the plastic parts (I know that's a bit tough seeing you really had to cut them up to get them to fit). That would add heft and maybe some stability to the frame.

As for classic mids, I try to pick some up when I go to thrift stores or used sporting goods shops. If I see a nice quality graphite composite mid for $10 or less that's in good shape, it really makes my day.

Roadway
11-09-2010, 03:34 AM
Yes, I hope to inject foam to the racquet. But i didnt see a machine doing that. Is there a machine for injecting foams?
I am very jealous that you can pick up a great racquet at such low price. In China every dealer intently raise these old racquets' price for they know somebody like me enjoys these racquets and i had to pay at least $40 for each.

KLE
06-10-2011, 08:28 PM
Just wonder if any posters in this thread are still using this stick.

I just pick-up one myself based all these positive posts. Will post some pix soon.

VGP
06-11-2011, 07:31 AM
^^^^ Cool.

KLE, please share your experience.

I'm still using mine...... :)

KLE
06-11-2011, 06:02 PM
Pix of stick before any cleanup and beautification

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/9069/wislongraphiteforcebefo.jpg

KLE
06-11-2011, 06:16 PM
After clean up and put on TW leather grip and Gamma Ovegrip.
Balance is 6 pts HL and 13 oz (371g).

I will play with it tomorrow and post my finding. Swing heavier than my current Dunlop 4d 100 but felt very balance and compact. Can't wait to find out how it strike a ball :).

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1318/wislongraphiteforce10.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/190/wislongraphiteforce10.jpg/)

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3034/wislongraphiteforce08.jpg


http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/6296/wislongraphiteforce07.jpg

VGP
06-13-2011, 12:39 PM
KLE - your frame looks nice with the rejuvenated handle.

How did you like it?

I like that you'd be able to compare it to a Dunlop 4D 100, a nice compact mid in and of itself......

onehandbh
06-13-2011, 01:46 PM
I just picked up a Graphite Force a few weeks ago. I'm running low on PS85's
and didn't want to pay the high e-bay prices so I found a GF at a thrift
shop. haven't tried it out yet. Need to restring it first. The strings in it look
10+ years old.

FedererClone
06-13-2011, 05:16 PM
I just picked up a Graphite Force a few weeks ago. I'm running low on PS85's
and didn't want to pay the high e-bay prices so I found a GF at a thrift
shop. haven't tried it out yet. Need to restring it first. The strings in it look
10+ years old.

See how it feels with the strings intact also to get a feel of the frame at low tension. It's one of my favorite sticks, such a solid performer. KLE how do you like the frame on the courts?

KLE
06-13-2011, 06:32 PM
The best racket that I ever played with from baseline. It generated so much power and spin that I can feel shots after shot. Balls from my WW FH has a nasty forward kick according to my friend that I was hitting with. This stick gave me so much confident in hitting all kind of shots, FH, BH, Slice, Topspin lob.

The ball contact was so solid and it made an incredible pop sound that made me want to hit balls all day long. Last but not least, I felt no vibration. This is a weird but pleasant feel.

The downside is at the net. I reacted much slower with it than with my Dunlop 4D100. Also with shots that came off from a net person, I could not move the racket fast enough to cover those quick return shots. The racket felt heavy for net play. I need to be 30 years younger and able bench press 200 lbs with 10 reps min. :)

4D100: 11.7 oz - 6 pt HL
Graphite Force: 13 oz - 6 pt HL

I will compare this Wilson with my new Muscle Weave 200 G next time.

VGP
06-14-2011, 05:43 AM
Thanks for sharing your initial experience KLE.

I love the frame off the ground. Like you, I was very surprised to find the amount of "action" I could get on the ball.....for groundstrokes AND serves.

My experience at the net is much different than yours. My regular hitting partners commented on how much better my volleys have been since switching to the Graphite Force. The only things I can pin down are the balance being a little more head-heavy than the setup I have with the PS85 and the more even string spacing of the GFM gives a little more spring, but I don't feel like I'm losing control.....

I'm looking forward to your comparison to the Muscle Weave 200g. People that use that frame go on and on about the feel of it. I would love to hear your comparison of that to the GFM.

FedererClone
09-13-2011, 06:29 PM
Just restrung with Wilson Extreme Synthetic Gut 16... looking forward to wielding her on the court this week!

goran_ace
09-24-2011, 10:01 AM
Just picked one up myself. A few scrapes but overall I'm impressed by the condition considering the age. Just cut out the old strings and grommets look to be in great shape. Can't wait to put in some fresh string and see how she hits.

VGP
09-24-2011, 11:10 AM
Just restrung with Wilson Extreme Synthetic Gut 16... looking forward to wielding her on the court this week!

How'd it go? Or did you get too distracted with your Ultra Kevlar 95? :)

Just picked one up myself. A few scrapes but overall I'm impressed by the condition considering the age. Just cut out the old strings and grommets look to be in great shape. Can't wait to put in some fresh string and see how she hits.

Good to hear the grommets on yours are good. Some of mine are pretty shot. Let us know how it goes......

michael_1265
09-24-2011, 03:29 PM
I have to reiterate that I love this stick. It adds a ton of aggressiveness to my ground game. Downside is that I really have to commit to volleys, but when I do, they are great.

FedererClone
09-24-2011, 06:13 PM
How'd it go? Or did you get too distracted with your Ultra Kevlar 95? :)

I hit with the graphite force a week before the Ultra 95; love the Graphite Force, always in my bag. Felt really sweet, a bit unwieldy that night on the serve due to the weight I think, hitting a lot long esp on second serve. Grinds well on my 1HBH and solid on FH. Not down with the Ultra 95; doesn't feel in the "range" for me to tweak my game around... My ideal on the Wilson side would be a compromise between the Reflex and Graphite Force, but tops for me is still Head TXE with Graphite Force comfortably in second...

tennisTN
10-06-2011, 11:50 AM
I bought a Head Graphite Force in 8th grade (in 1984) at an Oshman's Sporting Goods store for $50. I remember the details of the purchase vividly, because my mom gave me $60 in cash to buy it after school, and the whole day I kept touching my bookbag's side pocket to make sure the money was still there. I recall making a tough decision between this racquet, the Pro Kennex Copper Ace, and a fiberglass Spaulding racquet. I won my first junior tournament with the Graphite Edge. Overall, a decent racquet, but I have to say that it was inferior to the Sting, Sting II, and certainly the PS 85. Those racquets had more stability and power.

VGP
10-06-2011, 04:35 PM
I bought a Head Graphite Force in 8th grade (in 1984) at an Oshman's Sporting Goods store for $50....Overall, a decent racquet, but I have to say that it was inferior to the Sting, Sting II, and certainly the PS 85. Those racquets had more stability and power.

Thanks for sharing your experience. The racket I chose at the time was the Prince Response 90.

I agree that the Graphite Force may not be considered "as good" as the Sting, Sting II, and Pro Staff Midsize, but I don't know what it is about the Graphite Force that I like so much.

I have all the frames you mentioned. Including the Head Graphite Edge. The Graphite Edge sure is a log, and I don't say that lightly. The Sting and Sting II are firmer and the Pro Staff is more stable. The braided graphite/kevlar feels like it has more internal "grab."

But if I had to describe the Graphite Force in comparison, the moderate flex and thicker beam have an "airiness" that I quite enjoy.

I know that I don't hit the way I did 15 years ago. Right now, my strokes and the Graphite Force feel like they mesh ok.

After all these years I feel like I've come full circle. I mentioned the Prince Response 90. That frame has a graphite/kevlar/fiberglass mix. Along with the Graphite Force, I'm enjoying the Yonex R-22. Both of those frames are graphite/fiberglass.

tennisTN
10-06-2011, 07:03 PM
Oh yes the R-22. That was one sweet stick!!! I loved hitting volleys with that thing. So precise and so much touch and feel. IMO a better volleying stick than even the Max 200 G

VGP
12-14-2012, 12:08 PM
Wow. It's been a while since I've posted to this thread.....

Anyway, funny how much a "brand new" Wilson Graphite Force will go for on e-bay....

http://i50.tinypic.com/k9cmyp.jpg

It sold for $98 plus $9.90 shipping. (I am neither the seller nor buyer)

Not bad for a frame that normally goes for $20 bucks shipped.

Hannah19
12-14-2012, 03:11 PM
It does look stunning.....:)
Nice PJ and overal nice clean shape due to the lack of PWS....SEXY..!!!(Normally adding two bulges makes something more attractive, not removing them..:) )
I could see someone pay about that price because it's in n.o.s. condition and plain dropdead gorgeous.

FedererClone
12-16-2012, 11:17 AM
A beauty! Stringing w/gut?

FedererClone
12-16-2012, 11:20 AM
I just missed a DOS Prince Graphite 90 Pro on the big site for 19.99... gutted!

VGP
12-16-2012, 01:00 PM
I wasn't the one that bought it. I can't justify spending $110 on a racket that I'm sure I wouldn't use.

The collector in me would keep it as is.

Although I'd love to read the hang tag.

The dollars that I'm saving are going to my current interest of building lap steel guitars.

This was my first attempt:

http://i48.tinypic.com/107p5w3.jpg

MAXXply
12-16-2012, 01:42 PM
Wow. It's been a while since I've posted to this thread.....Anyway, funny how much a "brand new" Wilson Graphite Force will go for on e-bay....
http://i50.tinypic.com/k9cmyp.jpg

<wistful sigh> The Graphite Force was, IIRC, the subject of my earliest forays into the entire TalkTennis forum and the fruit of my earliest adventures in regular thrifting...it's gonna be 2013 in a matter of days...how time flies! :)

FedererClone
12-17-2012, 03:19 AM
Yeah that's a lotta cash for a DOS graphite force - pretty though... mind you, the DOS Prince for 19.99 would be worth a spin... anyhow, back to the thrift adventures online and at the local stores... cheers to all...

jonestim
12-17-2012, 11:11 AM
I just missed a DOS Prince Graphite 90 Pro on the big site for 19.99... gutted!

I didn't ;) Perfect match for the 9 condition one I picked up last week for $7 at Goodwill. I strung that up with OSGM 17 @55 and am playing great tennis with it. After a few more outings like that it may become my go-to stick.

FedererClone
12-19-2012, 07:26 AM
nice one jonestim... let us know how she hits! I am off to pick up head TXD from post office today...

onehandbh
11-17-2013, 04:04 AM
Finally had a chance to hit with my Graphite Force.
A couple sets of doubles on clay.

I normally play with a PS85 or K90. The Graphite Force is a bit heavier
and head heavier. It was harder to hit volleys but on serves it was a
beast. Pretty sure I can hit harder serves with it. It definitely has more
power than the PS80 but it is a bit harder control.

VGP
11-18-2013, 09:19 AM
Funny that. I found volleying better with the Graphite Force over the PS85.

I was very surprised to prefer the head-heavier balance.

onehandbh
11-18-2013, 08:23 PM
Funny that. I found volleying better with the Graphite Force over the PS85.

I was very surprised to prefer the head-heavier balance.

I also find it a little tough for half volleys. For groundstrokes, if I can
get used to the weight, it seems like it might be pretty good. The ball
definitely has a flatter trajectory with this racquet vs the k90 or ps85.